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tv   The Stream  Al Jazeera  October 1, 2013 7:30pm-8:01pm EDT

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hi i'm lisa flep your you are in the stream. how effective are the non-violent peace efforts in the israel conflict? >> they have put down their weapons to find a solution. they hope to to end the cycle of violence between the peamtion and israelis. like many other groups believe dialogue and reconciliation are the only ways to foster
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co--existence. they have annual events including a walk in new haven connecticut. those groups say it gives the impression that there is more progress than there actually is. it makes people lead that the -- believe that the dispute is between two similar metric parties. this community is on the topic and passionate and opinionated. >> it's opinionated about the hotly contested real estate on earth. you are the third host of the show because all of your on-line comments drive this conversation. join this discussion by tweeting us and using the hash tag hm
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about. joining us is mohammad. he is palestinian and from thevillaville yaj village on the ou outskirts. in the google hang out is adam sha peeshapiro and also in the t i talia. she wrote the book "when peace is not enough how the israeli peace camps think of religion and national justice." you are a former combatant. to understand what you ar and moment armohammad are doing nowe your mind set and what the trigger was that changed things for you. as you said before i was
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combatant in the israel army. and i served in the occupied territories. and at some point i realize the that occupation is not only land, but also people. and mainly people. and in order to maintain these so-called "occupation" we have to deny the basic human rights of these people. i also couldn't overlook the distress of the people, the occupied people, and at some point i decided to change my way. after a few years i decided to meet palestinians face-to-face and i joined combatants for peace. >> lisa: i imagine that was not a popular choice among your peers in the israeli defense forces. how did you make that work or make that transition?
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>> most difficult was my family. i come from a family with political opinions leaping leang towards the right. they were worried about me. because many israelis believe all palestinian are terrorists or potential terroristses. terry were afraid for me. and they also disagreed with me. they know i'm promoting the palestinian cause and viewing the palestinian cause is different than the israeli cause. i think both have the same benefit from the end of the occupation. when i joined combatants for peace i was not in the army anymore and i was not an officer anymore. it was after my military service. i found these people challenging my views and activism an opportunity, an opportunity to have them change as i changed. and it worked with most of them.
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>> lisa: mohammad same question to you. what triggered the mindset shift for you going from combatant to peace activist? >> when you spend most of your life in the prison or your childhood, you are fighting in the beginning and in the end for your liberty. and your freedom. but you are fining also after all that you are making, even after 50 years, you are losting for your life and you find that it documenit don't do doesn' do. you can reach the same target or the same goal with the same violence. without losing your family, your friends and your brothers like what happened to me. and to choose the non-violence way. and with this you are also finding the respect of yourselfablof yourselfand the rd
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with non-violence resistance to reach your freedom. >> adam these are noble objectives but how effective are these peace movements. >> i think it's important to distinguish between the peace movement and the dialogue groups and as mohammad said non-violent resistance. the two are not the same an quite different in terms of their tactics i do agree with the commentator as long as the two sides continue to talk past each other it doesn't make much of a difference. i have seen on the ground that there are many israelis or palestinians who talk to each over and understaneachother andr but that does not change the politics at the elite levels. non-violent resistance can make a difference and can alter the
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resistance of the political leaders. and think that is where there is hope for some resolution for non-violent resistance. >> stiltimothy says there have n a million attempts to dialogue. to what end. what rec consignificanc reconcis the dialogue gone for palestinians since 1948. peace requires jus justice and s built on respect and dignity. why don't you define what peace looks like and what will peace be in motd ear modern day israed palestine. >> peace from my perspective is a non-violent movement towards social change and transformation. it's important to very deeply
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connect questions of peace through justice. so, any attempt to think about peace through this perspective has to be by this bold mult multipeace perspective. and moving on to other conflict ibinary terms. in this particular case, what peace really is we have to address questions of injustice to the palestinians connecting the 1968 occupation to israel proper. to the question of palestinian-israeli, to seeing the more domestic questions for social justice. and as long as the parameters for the discussion are felt in
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such away as to enable undemocratic practices, then the peace is lacking on the question of justice. >> lisa: the challenges that groups like combatants for peace face come from inside and out outside of their perspective exeunlts. communities. by engaging them both similar sr metrically. >> here is a look at a couple of hash tags that are coming right now.
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>> lisa: welcome back. ware talking about non-violent peace efforts between palestinians and israelis. before the break we asked for your thoughts.
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what are people saying? >> a lot of critcism. here is shareef. how can you expect honest dialogue when palestinians face obstacles just getting to the take. we don't kneand then tristen sae normalizes injustice. there can't be any middle ground for dialogue while structures of injusticebejustice persist. >> lisa: how do you agree with this. i a i gre agree with them. >> non-violence resistance doesn't mean to be enacted to be passive to runaway. on the contrary. it means when you you are meetg the violent entity, which can be the settlers or the army, you confront them. you get bitten but you don't respond with violence. we know from our experience and
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from india and from south africa and even here from the martin luther king. it's not passiveness, it's on the contrary you have to be very brave in order to confront someone that bit you and not hit back. >> lisa: since the first inat that findfadaand the berlin wal. things have really changed. people have had to rely on the stereotypes of each other because there is no interaction. some say the groups like yours are the only ones out there to humanize it for each other. >> before th. >> i was so disappointed from the second enfada.
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i think the rule that separated not just between the lands also accepseparated between us. even palestinian, palestinian, palestinian-jewish and. it's making our jobs so difficult. so much more difficult. but while we are choosing between non-violent way or violent way, and what we can make for our generation. >> i think that after the first intifada the thing changed for our freedom. here is our liberty and here is our state. but if you will ask me about the
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smirt an short and most bad tims in our live it was the second intifada. >> lisa: yonltd that, talk about the importance of humanizing each other. like in groups like combat apartments for peace you humanize palestinians and israelis for each other. it opens the di dialogue. you can relate on a human level rather thandie mondayizeing each other. >> the first meeting is through the check points. he is 1 18 years old and he is having the gun and i am the one that wants to go to work with my family. i want you to think what you are meeting between these two persons. we want to show both sides not all the israelis are soldiers and not all palestinians are terrorists. and we make a lot of when speak
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about a human. a mother that lost three young sons that is the same thought in her head is the same in my head. the same pain. i think we can make us closer to each other and to understand that what is between us in the end is just one word. like i said in the gij. beginning and both of us having the right to live. >> there is an international solidarity most right now. and o you our community has chi. >> we are not silent actors. we give israel $3.1 billion a year in military aid.
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how can we support peace as an american. by cutting our own lines to the agression against palestinians. and non-violent call for boycott and sanctions. adam the sanctions from israel it's growing. but is that going to be an effective move with non-violent resistance and do you support is i whole heartedly support it and i am trying to do my part in engaging in bbs. i do think it's effective an at this point one of the most effective tac tactic that is beg used by the palestinian civil society and support communities around the world to target israel for it's actions. for it's actions of occupation and it's actions and what all -- occupations including is whether the settlements and the way
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people are being treated and the prisoners including children. and i think that you know, from the people who are acting on the ground, the village where there is active resistance to the wall as you showed in the video earlier. to this kind of support internationally is a tangible support. when we created the solidarity movement we thought this was a tangible manifestation of solitairety. we have forke foreigners on thed confronting. bds takes it to an international level. it's movin proving to be effect. we are seeing companies around the world to disinvest in projects inside of israel and the west bearchg. bank. and we are seeing things happen
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that have never happened before. it's only bds that has brought these issues to the floor and forced people to make decisions. >> lisa: critics of groups like youringyours say your activitiee things look better than they actually are. you say there is symmetry between palestinian and israel. how do you make people believe that non-violence can work. at the same time not giving the impression that both sides are equal? >> nothing in our activity suggest that there is equaldy between th -- equality between the two sides. the palestinians are the people that leave there without basic human rights. i don't think what we do suggests even a tiny suggestion that there is equality, on the contrary. we are ther there with our palestinian brothers in order to reach an agreement.
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in order to improve their status in order to have a palestinian state. if there was an equality we didn't need to be there. i want to address also the issue of bds which i am personally debating, myself about the effectiveness or ineffeceffectis of bds. we have no formal position about it. every activist has his own right to his own opinion. i think if we want to win the heart of the israelis of the mainstream it's too early to have these harsh measures. because we are giving up the poinpossibility of reconcilliatn of a settlement. on the other end, i must admit from months to months, i'm getting more dissatisfied with the response of the mainstream in israel. and i think that if the current
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peace talks fail, then by all means there will be a need for a more harsh america measures like bds. i don't think until now that the bds has any effect on israel because it's effect? general, is very, very limited. >> lisa: i'm going to stop you there we have to take a break. when we come back we'll explore how non-violent peace moments in the u.s. translate to the middle east. >> if you are tweeting us right now check this out. you may see your o avatar. ç]
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>> hi i'm henry campaign managers and i'm in "the"the stream"." it's amazing how many people can tweet in two minutes. george says the only way out of the present impasse is to
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develop the economy and reconcilliation. jasmine says we have to support bds because at that creates infrastructure of steadfastness. and maybe because i'm an israeli arab my views are optimistic it can happen if we educate the views between each. talk to us about moving forward and high brit hybrid identitiesn really make some peace here. >> thank you. one way to bring my thesis on hybrid identities and the question about peace an justice in this particular instance between israel and palestinian. like adam and everybody on the program is sympathetic b to the organizing. i don't think that effectiveness
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should be interpret changes in the context of the israel-palestinian. it should rather a protest of a variety of movements and some fact finding and various cultural activities and so parth that create the effectiveness of the bds. overall it's not going to act constricconstructively when talg about peace building and change. it can shame israel and put israel in a very complicated position. but the heart of the issue from my perspective is a real need to debate, to contest and to rethink how really questions of citizenship and identity in the context of israel. my work i look at sub nationally. you mentioned palestinian
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israelis. >> i need you to wrap up and the hybrid ey identities and how thy help. >> the hybrid identities are the group that occupy a challenge of the israeli expwrvmen jews are e group. >> lisa: we are getting people to think there is mor more thano sides to this. combatants for peace have been doing this work for more than two years now. how is this organization going to evolve and it's relevance and impact. >> we are going to continue our work. and i think we are going to evolve in terms of numbers. there isn't a great increase in the numbers of the exodus of combatants for peace over the
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past few years. and we are really pushing this forward to be a greater movement with thousands of people all around, palestinians and israelis. and do our daily work of resisting occupation and promoting the two state solution. >> lisa: erez talk about the influence and how groups like yours can influence change compolitics. >> you mean in politics. >> lisa: when we see change from grassroots movements you get a thoughtful and powerful politician in place or things get to a tipping point. there is an uprising from the grass roots movement. and sometimes those movement can move politicians or lawmakers in a different direction. do you think your group or a combination of groups like yours has the ability to influence politics. >> i think we have. years ago we have realized we
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have to have contact with politicians on both sides. and to convey to them the realities on ground. we have taken the politicians from palestinian a and israel to tours of the west bank. the politicians don't need our assistances to see the wrong doing in the west bank and the expansion of the settlements the impact of the israeli members, especially the mainstream from the center. >> lisa: i'm going to have to wrap you up there we are out of time. we are done. i want to thank all of our guests fortis paition tonight. fofor participationtonight. no one group can solve the problem. we will see yo see you all again on-line. ♪
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