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tv   Consider This  Al Jazeera  October 8, 2013 1:00am-2:01am EDT

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>> welcome to al jazeera. i'm stephanie sy. here are the headlines. with the country now in the second week of a government shut down, concerns are focused on another approaching dea deadlin, october 17th, when the country will run out of money to pay its bills. will not raise the debt ceiling without concession he from president obama and the democrats. mein benghazi, prebles rebed
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anas al-liby in his home. outbreak has been linked to three chicken plants owned by foster farms. chicken products were distributorred mostly to retail outlets in california, oregon and washington state. those are the headlines right now. consider this is up next. you can always get the latest news at . >> the united states moves
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against al-qaeda an and al-shabab in two hours. has the white house shifted it's a counterterrorism strategy away from kills in favor of captures. as many uninsured americans have tried to navigate the process of signing up for obamacare those who pay for their own insurance, they're alerted of the new rate, and it didn't pretty. >> welcome to "consider this." we begin with the capture of the al-qaeda operative in libya's capitol and the raid in somalia. reports officials insist these actions were both necessary and legal. >> we hope that this makes clear
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that the united states of america will never stop in its effort to hold those accountable of those who conduct acts of terror and alqaida and members of their organization that they can run but they can't hide. >> u.s. operations in libya and somalia send a strong message. >> we'll continue to try to bring people to justice in an appropriate way with hopes that ultimately these kinds of activities against everybody in the world will stop. >> navy seals from seal team 6 launched the first mission in somalia, home to the al-qaeda-linked al-shabab group. al-shabab spokesman claimed they had been warned ahead of the seals raid. it's clear that they are planning a large scale attack
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before the attack in nairobi. and this man is accused of playing a key role in the 1998 bombings in tanzania and is known to be close to osama bin laden years ago. >> the operations were conducted as you know by the authorization to use military force from 2001 which authorizes the use of force against al-qaeda and forces. >> al -liby will be brought in soon. >> a former fbi counter effort part of the team in the bombings
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of kenya and tanzania. and don bareli, former member of the fbi joint terrorism task force, who testified before the house foreign affairs committee last week about the threat from al-shabab. great to have you both here. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> you were involved in the embassy bombing and investigations. what can you tell us about abu al-liby and after all the work you put in to find justice for all those people who were killed. how do you feel knowing that he's in u.s. custody tonight? >> i'm grateful that not only was he captured, but captured alive. as good as it feels to capture someone who is guilty of a crime that long ago, but we'll learn more about future attacks. it's critical that we didn't do
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a drone strike on either of those targets because their values to us in the intelligence community is far greater than the value of a prosecution ever will be. >> we'll talk about the down strikes later. don, any significance that these raids from launched within a matter of hours. >> i think it sends a great message. we've seen terrorist organizations launch simultaneous attacks against their targets, i think it's great to turn the table on them and launch simultaneous attacks. whether it's by design or coincidence it's hard to say. but i will say when we have these tactical operations a lot goes into it, and time something absolutely critical. sometimes you look for those windows of opportunity when it's safe enough for the operators to take action. when the intelligence is appropriate. was it by design or coincidence, hard to tell. >> but it sends a clear edge. >> absolutely. >> tim, you were talking about
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al-liby's capture, and whether he'll bring valuable information to the u.s. he's being held for questioning. who makes up the integration team? and what kind of techniques are being applied in this case with the high level suspect like this, given that we've walked away from some of the techniques that used to be alive. >> well, think the team will be made up fbi and c.i.a. agents that are topnotch interrogators. and it usually does not involve physical coercion at all. for someone like this, it's going to be a matter of delicate balance of rapport building. partly to put the fear of god in this guy to let him know that his life of terrorism and crime is long since over, and if he expects to see daylight again in
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any capacity his best cooperation. his intelligence that he holds right now is most valuable to us in the immediate hours after the capture. de appreciates greatly in the days and weeks past. when saddam hussein captured it was a colleague, an fbi agent named george who did all the interrogations of saddam. that a was choreographed by a couple of members of the behavior analyses at quantico who choreographed every movement and every word that george maim while in the room with saddam, and he was the only human being that saddam was allowed to interact with in any way. that my be torturous to us, but it allows us to control the conversation and direct someone like saddam hussein, a maniac, and someone like al-liby, who is not much different, and direct them with the scope of what they're facing and direct their
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operation. >> the plan as prosecutor here in the unitehere--the plan is te here in the united states. but he has not been read his miranda rights. that's because they want to get information from him now. are they confident that they won't have any trouble convicting him with the evidence that is all right out there. >> it should not be a problem. we have this with another individual captured in the spring of 2011. he was an a al-shabab operative. he was interrogated for months. he was turned over to a law enforcement team, he was read his miranda rights, and he was a water shed of intelligence, and he was also convicted, and pled guilty, and i think still looking at sentencing, but potentially could look at a life sentence. it's possible to serve both masters. that is to get valuable
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intelligence along with preserving a viable prosecution. that's what the government is looking to do right now. >> but will al-liby, tim, bring us a water shed of intelligence. he spent ten years in custody. what can we get from him now? >> we can get a lot from him. a water shed is not necessarily things that have been built up over years. he knows how they operate. he knew how they operated back then, and even if he has been back in this game for the last several months or few years, he still has a lot of intelligence about the personnel, and the targets. and the personnel that are working on their side and where they are, and also let's talk about bengahzi. while al-liby was in plain sight, bengahzi, another libyan
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city, despite the fact that he had a $5 million bounty on his head. and here's a quote: >> the question is if the window is closing does that mean that we're leaving the bengahzi suspects on the street there? here's what republican congressman peter king said yesterday on fox news sunday. >> why, if we're able to get al-liby we didn't get the operatives in bengahzi, we know where they are. they've been open and notorious for quite awhile. >> they've gone underground. what does it say about our priorities? >> this is where the law and politics merge. we can't discount the fact that the capture of al-liby was significant. to me it sends a message that the cooperation between the u.s. government and the libyan security authorities is getting better. we've had a team of fbi and
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c.i.a.-- >> even though the libyan government complained about this? >> they can complain but i would venture to guess there were at least some people in the inner circle of knew what was going on. they have to complain to save face with their own people. i don't think this was a completely huma unilateral operation, similar to the osama bin laden raid in pakistan. >> what do we know about this guy who was the main planner for al-shabab? was he really the main target because that compound was used by the head of al-shabab. >> all the sources i read said he was the target. i'm not privy to classified information but by all accounts he was the target. this is the guy associated with two of the key embassy--u.s. embassy plots, the attacks in 1998.
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both of whom are deceased but both significant players in the attack. he was involved in the 2002 attack in kenya against an israeli hotel and airliner. this guy is a big deal. >> why not just take him out? there was enough firepower to take him out. >> again, antonio, the value of speaking to someone like that, and getting intel from them,ness two weeks after an attack where 60-plus people were killed, and similar attacks against soft targets like that are things that are very vulnerable here in america. and with the hundreds somali spores, close to a million or more, i believe we have close to three-quarters of a million in america alone. those somali diasopra are a small minority are infected by al-shabab. they're infected by that ideology. >> i want to talk about their
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role in financing al-shabab, but let's talk about the drone strikes and whether to take this guy out or not. according to u.s. military official, it was a capture mission. if they wanted to kill this guy, there are lots of ways to do that. no drone strikes, do you think, don, the administration is stepping back from using drones? >> i can't say they're stepping back. they're weighing their best options. if they're operating in an area where they have reasonable chances of success in capturing the target, they're not going to be looking at a lot of innocent civilians or casual collateral damage, they're going to opt for the option, and that's what they're attempting to do. >> tim, al-shabab even last week we had experts telling us that al-shabab was supposed to be on its way out.
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but within a matter of weeks they succeeded with that gruesome attack on that westgate mall in kenya. now they held off a seal team six, are they stronger than they were given credit for? >> i don't know if sophistication is the proper scale to measure them on. they may have been weakened as far as territorial in sow ma i can't, they're no longer controlling mogadishu, it doesn't mean they're weaker. just because they don't control the territory doesn't mean that their numbers have been decimated. they're still recruiting around the world and financing comes from around the world. it might be more difficult because they're more underground now and the fact that they were able to repulse a seal team six attack shows the rules of engagement between them and us. they're not worried about collateral damage. they're only worried about saving our butts.
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our guys don't want to cause collateral damage, and they're trying to capture them alive. >> they do attack people. they're poaching elephants to use the ivory for their trade. they're become major sellers in the region and they're getting financing from those here. some have been convicted in the united states for giving money to this group. and apparently they have the money to pay these fighters. not many of them are religion fighters. they're getting the finance ing to pay they're mercenaries or somali who is are working for them. >> money is the lifeblood of any terror organization. without money they can't survive. eventually they won't get recruits. they can't bite the resources, weapons and provide for the training and all those things. there are lots of sources of money that come in to al-shabab. we have done--as at the u.s. government have done a lot to
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stem the flow of money that goes in there including sanctions against various banks, prosecuting people in the united states who have sent money to al-shabab. but this is a very difficult task. especially when you look at foreign source was money coming in from other countries, for other organizations. potentially under the auspices of ngos that are built to be charitable organizations. but the fact of the matter once the funds get over there it's very difficult to track whether they end up in the hands of needy people who need food or those who are fighting. >> two months ago we were talking about al-qaeda, the arabian peninsula and yemen and then the isla islamist extremisn kenya, they keep popping up everywhere. don, tim, thank you for being with us tonight. >> good night. >> millions who buy their own insurance are shocked how much
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they'll be paying under obamacare. talking to those people who just got their notices recently. and what do you think? hermela aragawi is fielding your questions. she will bring them to us. on inside story, we bring together unexpected voices closest to the story, invite hard-hitting debate and desenting views and always explore issues relevant to you.
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>> as americans navigate through obamacare. many americans are going through sticker shock. they see the premiums they'll have to pay. to discuss this we have with us mary, a self employed court reporter who is dealing with choosing a new plan.
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she joins us from our san francisco studio. great to have you all with us. tom, i want to start with you. you buy your own insurance. you say you're a supporter of president obama, and you wanted more people to be insured. now you're looking at what is going to happen to you. your premium currently $635 a month. the afternoon bronze premium is $1,432 for you. that's $9,564 more every year. we checked the california exchange, and it didn't look like we could find anything lower. you thought he would be paying less, right? >> yes, in fact, i did. or at least that i would be able to keep my current insurance. somewhere along the whole way i believed the line i could keep my insurance and/or move to the exchange that it would be up to me, and some how that promise isn't coming through.
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>> mary, in your case you got a letter from your insurance company saying that you needed to find a new plan on the obama care exchange by january. your premium $225 a month, but the cheapest plan on the exchange that you can find is $507. now, what does that mean for you? you live in san francisco. the cost of live something high. that's a big jump. are you going to qualify for a subsidy? >> no, i do not qualify for a subsidy as of now. it is very scary right now. i haven't begun to check into my options. i went into sticker shock friday when i got my letter. i have to make some kind of--i have to pick a plan very soon. i really don't know-- >> a couple of months to do it. >> and exactly. >> joanne, what do you say to people like tom and mary? a spokesman from the california exchange said there will be
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winners and losers under obamacare but most people buying their own insurance won't see an increase, but you're seeing these two examples. who is going to win or lose here. >> clearly these people will have a challenge getting coverage. what kind of coverage did they have before? is that entire increase because of the new law? are there other trends in healthcare and is it the same exact plan, do you have different protections as a consumer. if i was paying another $10,000 out of pocket, that's a lot of money. is this the experience of these individuals? yes, it is. are there other people like them? yes, there are. is this the experience of everybody in the country, no it's not. there are also people who are subsidized, who have cheaper plans or weren't able to get insurance at all and can get it now. it will be for the country to decide the balance of winners and losers.
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there are some experts--this is not an universally shared view, but there are some people who think that it will be cheap center a year. that insurers going into this new exchanges, insurers by definition are conservative. they reduce risk. they may be coming in high because it's a new market with a new market and it's a whole new system, you might see it--i wouldn't say that's a guarantee. there are some people who say that in the insurance industry and academics who say it may be better in a year. >> the healthcare costs, the rate at which they are rising has slowed down. >> they're at historic lows. >> that may be partially because of obamacare. tom, i know you want more people to be insured. how much of it is--are you willing to pay more knowing that in the future if you had a pre-existing condition and needed to get insurance a that
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now you would be able to? >> well, all along i've been listening to the reports that said initially they said people in my age group would be staying flat. and later on they said in california my age group that it might go up 30%. 30% is a number i could see society sees the benefit of having everyone insured. i do, too. maybe at 30% number would have been high but okay. but not more than double. >> mary, what are you going to do? are you considering just biting the bullet and just paying the penalty? >> no, i don't want to do that. i have no choice but to get insurance. i'm going to keep shopping around. i'm going to stay with my provider right now. but it is a very scary--what is going on with healthcare is very scary.
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i believe the obama plan was extremely shortsighted. i resent the fact that i'm having to pay $507 to subsidize someone else. >> let's bring in a couple of examples, joann, one is from new york city. we can show you the notice that this person got. it's a couple with one child, and you can look at the numbers there on the screen. currently they're paying $359. they're both self employed. their premium will jump to $911. the only advantage is that their deductible will be a few thousand dollars lower. i spoke to this person earlier today, and she said they were going to seriously consider the penalty because the gap was so many thousands of dollars that it didn't seem to make sense. >> in new york the rates are actually going down. so i don't know what this individual had in terms of how minimal the coverage was before. if someone had a plan that was
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very, very basic, that really wouldn't cover you, you what we call under insured. it wouldn't cover you if you got seriously ill. those plans aren't sold any more. i don't know about this family in new york, how skimpy their plan was, and what kind of protections they had. as a rule the new york rates are going down and quite a bit. >> let me give a florida example. this is a single, self-employed male. his current plan, $270 monthly. that jumps to $483, and he lost dental. same deductible. same plan. >> probably not the same kind of plan. it's probably a different plan in the sense that preventive care is free, basic benefits, mental health is covered, maternity is covered. no more lifetime limits. >> you think in many of these cases they'll be getting more benefits rather than less. one of the arguments that people make is you get less choice and limited in some of the places
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you can go to get your healthcare. >> those are two different issues. the provider network, whether you're an hmo or ppo and how many doctors is different than the basic benefits. in terms of benefits you have got, and what kind of benefits are required. someone may not want those benefits. they would rather say i will take my chances and i would have a plan that doesn't cover anything and if i get sick i'm taking a risk. those plans, they're slimmed down plans that had fewer consumer protections won't be allowed. it's an apples to apples comparison. some people don't want an apple. they want an orange, but in terms of how much the exchanges are working, how much is new benefits in the plans, how much is healthcare inflation. even though it is going up more slowly than it was going up, it is still going up. and if you're getting it at a job, a lot of employers have been passing on costs. if you get your coverage at
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work, and your deductibles is going up, your copay is going up, your premium, that's not necessarily the law. that is what your employer is doing. that's been a trend for many, many years now. and more-- >> with we're focusing more on the self-employed. who are the real winners? those people who make--depends on multiples of the poverty income. >> it goes into the middle class. a family of four-- >> who will be heavily subsidized. >> right, right, the lower income will be more--a family of four making 92,000 will get less of a subsidy than a family of four making $30,000. >> all right, tom? >> the biggest surprise i found out if i earned $94,000, which is four times the federal poverty level for a family, then i don't qualify for any benefits and i have to pay this 1470 or whatever the number was. if i
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earned one there are less my rate drops from $1,470 to $271, less than what i presently pay. so i believe there are a lot of people who are earning less than $94 as families that are going to qualify for these benefits, and making it lower than what i recently pay, which i think might be tilting it a little bit too far the other direction. being able to pay that, you know, having such a cliff on that $94,000 number. if i had a job, and i thought about working a little bit more that year from $94,000 to $95,000 i would actually have to make $18,000 more before i was any better off. if i earned $96,000 i would be worse off. it was really implemented with some difficult to understand attributes.
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>> tomorrow, mary, joanna, thank you for bringing your experiences to light. it's going to be an interesting few months, and let's hope that it does help a lot of people and get more people insured because--and that it doesn't hurt people like you who may end up having to pay--you don't have to pay too much more. we appreciate your time and sharing your stories with us. coming up next we have more technology than ever but is it making us smarter or dumber? and former c.i.a. agent valerie what happens when social media uncovers unheard, fascinating news stories? it drives discussion across america. share your story on tv and online.
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[[voiceover]] from lucrative defense contracts to behind-the-scene lobbyists.
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>>did egyptians ever think that aid would actually be cut? >>never. [[voiceover]] fault lines explores the enduring relationship between the american and the egyptian militaries. >>i don't think we will suffer now. we already have airplanes, tanks ... >>they haven't changed the nature of what they provide us. why would we want to change what we provide them?
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[[voiceover]] from lucrative defense contracts to behind-the-scene lobbyists. >>did egyptians ever think that aid would actually be cut? >>never. [[voiceover]] fault lines explores the enduring relationship between the american and the egyptian militaries. >>i don't think we will suffer now. we already have airplanes, tanks ... >>they haven't changed the nature of what they provide us. why would we want to change what we provide them?
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re# #a# #d# #y# ##fo# #r# ## [[voiceover]] from al jazeera media network comes a new voice of journalism in the u.s. >>the delta is a microcosm of america. [[voiceover]] we tell the human story, from around the block, across the country, with more points of view. >>if joe can't find work, his family will go from living in a motel to living in their car. [[voiceover]] connected, inspired, bold. >>about a thousand protestors have occupied ... so many money stories sound complicated but don't worry, i'm here to take the fear out of finance. every night on my show i break down the confusing
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financial speak and make it real. >> in today's day at a dive of the cost of the government shutdown. chuck hagel is calling the furloughed defense department workers thanks to the "pay our military" law. and the shutdown would cost $2.9 billion in modern day money at $300 million we've already crossed $2 billion in economic output this time around. 800,000 federal employee versus been furloughed although they've been promised back pay. if that happens it should make up for most of those economic losses. we think the furloughed workers account for 18% of the total federal workforce but the census website is shut down so we can't say for sure. with most of the government
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operating most americans have not been affected at all by the shutdown but it is having a major impact on many who aren't government workers. the national institute of health have stop accepting new patients and stop answering hotline calls with medical questions. the center for disease control prevention lost one-third of its staff. they stopped their seasonal flu campaign and at a reduced capacity to respond if there is an outbreak. the fda is responsible for 80% of our food supply so it will have a harder time spotting and preventing food-borne illnesses. head start has been stopped in six states. and private donors are stepping in to help. the national archives are closed as are national parks and monuments. federally backed loans for rural
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communities, small business owners or families buying a home are frozen but mortgages through the fha or the va should be okay. finally some good news. if you're getting hounded by the irs it has suspended auditing operations during the shutdown. coming up, valerie plame is out with a new novel about a c.i.a. agent. we asked her if it was based on that's all i have an real money.
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victoria azarenko what happens when social media
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>> on july 14, 2013, a column revealed the identify of covert c.i.a. agent valerie plame effectively ending her career with the agency. her work was focused on nuclear air proliferation, and she wrote an auto biography that turned into a movie and has since been working with the organization "global zero." now she's authored a new spy
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novel called "blow back." joining us is former c.i.a. agent valerie blame. great to have you with us. >> thank you for having me. >> i want to start with serious questions. your work at the c.i.a. now at global zero and in the novel all have corrections to iran. the number of countries that now have nuclear weapons has grown since you left the c.i.a. are you hopeful that proliferation will stop? >> i am hopeful. i think more and more nations are realizing that nuclear weapons belong in a dust pin of history. that they no, no longer provide the security that they once did, where we have the nexus of nuclear technology and terrorism. the proliferation will continue unless we take strong international steps which is what global zero is supporting, enough, i think we've just been lucky so far. >> ther there are revelries that
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iran, despite their denials, that iran is trying to achieve nuclear weapons, do you think they'll get to the place where iran will not develop a weapon? >> i'm cautiously optimistic because maybe there is a window of opportunity. president rouhani has clearly shown a moderation in tone. from all of his tweets, from wishing happy rosh hashanah to his jewish friends, to the phone call with president obama, and then of course on october 15th there will be meeting in geneva or, high level meetings, and this is amazing that this is the first time that they've been this level of talks since the iranian revolution. and i believe that diplomatic relations should not be reserved just for friends. i believe america is a great enough country that we can speak with our enemies as well as our
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friends, and we need to have--begin to have this conversation with them. i think iran definitely wants to reenter the community of natio nations. the sanctions are biting. as they say, i'm optimistic that maybe we have a moment here. >> while at the c.i.a. you monitored the top pakistani nuclear scientist who had been involved in helping other countries develop nuclear weapons. the biggest concern, nuclear devices falling into terrorist hands. given everything that has happened over the past ten years what do you think the likelihood of that is? >> i think it's still very high, actually. this is something that we need to have very strong international intrusive inspections and begin to move forward, starting with united
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states and russia, reducing our nuclear arsenals. we cannot continue on the path that we're going. but this continues to be a dire threat, and that's something that i developed my expertise in in the c.i.a. it's what i continued to do with global zero. as you pointed out i made it a central-- >> it is, the central point of your book. let's talk about it. valerie plame, vanessa pearson, how close is that-- >> crazy. >> that covert c.i.a. agent who lives in cypress to you? >> i would say she's smarter than i am, younger than i am, but informed by my experiences in the c.i.a. i was always irritated with how female c.i.a. ops officers are portrayed in popular culture. i was given the opportunity to write this book along with my coauthor, sara lov lovett, i wad
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a female character who was realistic but entertaining. >> you bring you portrayals in movie and tv shows. we're seeing more female agents including claire danes' character in "homeland," and the character in " dark 30 a.m. are they not an improvement? >> perhaps, they're not highly sexualized. they're cardboard characters. claire danes, she's a brilliant actress and homeland is compelling tv. but notice how she doesn't have any friends. for that with the ops officers not to have very good interpersonal skills, they wouldn't go very far. jessica did a beautiful job in
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"zero dark 30" and she was nominated for it. however, that character really was a compilation of several officers, and there always is a team effort that goes into a successful operation, which always seems to sort of go by the way side because it's much more dramatic to focus on one character. >> on the individual. but while you're with the c.i.a. you were a deep cover officer. how much of what you write in this novel is true to what a c.i.a. covert operator might do? and how much is more, you know, novelistic? >> well, i took out all the waiting. all the rabbit holes that you go down and come up with nothing because you can't keep a reader very long if you put that in. there is a lot of waiting for your assets, whether you're in a restaurant or in a park, and so forth. but what is very genuine is all the trade craft that is very accurate.
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how you communicate clandestin clandestinely with an asset. how you move in and out of a country, those sort of things and the locations are all places where i have been, worked or traveled to. so i tried--and her interactions at headquarters and so forth. i tried to make that as realistic as possible. and still make it entertaining. >> you know, the book starts with the main character, vanessa pearson meeting covertly with an informant. those kinds of meetings, the whole cloak and dagger thing, this advance world of technology with so many different ways of communicating, that still happens? >> believe it or not, yes. despite all the technology, what really matters is a human interaction. i'm biased but human intelligence is what is going to tell you the intent. all the technology and spy satellites and everything that
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is available to the intelligence community in technology terms, all that is helpful, but it really is only with that human interaction that there is a certain degree of trust, and you understand what the intent is that that's where really critical intelligence comes in. yes, vanessa pearson meeting her asset i in vienna. >> and when you wrote your auto biography, you had issues with the c.i.a. vetting it, and not wanting to you write it. did you have issues with this book? >> when you join the c.i.a. you sign a secrecy agreement , which i support. everything that i write i have run by the c.i.a. for pre pre-publication preview, with blow back. they realized it was functional. i wasn't revealing sources or methods. unlike "fair game"
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which was quite a bit redacted, with this one there were no black marks. >> you were a covert agent. you had to resign because you could go no where any more with the c.i.a. you went from being this secret person who couldn't tell people what you did to becoming a household name. how hard was that massive transition for you? >> it was difficult. it took me honestly a couple of years to come to terms with it because i had gone from being a very private person where obviously secrecy and discretion is paramount. you don't do that job with any hope or desire of public recognition. and then literally overnight i was a very public person, and enmeshed with this very partisan scandal. harder. >> it was--it was really difficult. both my husband, joe wilson and i, went through the
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ringer. and it took me awhile to realize that it least if i'm going to be a public person i can use my voice and speak out about things which i care about passionately like global zero, for instance. >> unfortunately we have to go. but i hope there has been a silver lining in all this for you. while you had dedicated your life to something it must have been very hard to lose that. at least everything that you've >> the government is already shut down. now congress is facing off over the debt ceiling. congress says it will mov


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