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tv   Up Front 2017 Ep 27  Al Jazeera  September 30, 2017 5:32pm-6:00pm AST

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saada province yemen's u.n. envoy says he's government will cooperate with the investigators u.s. president donald trump is blaming what he calls fake news for claims that he's not doing enough to help puerto rico recover from hurricane maria the mayor of puerto rico's capital san juan has accused the trumpet ministration of killing people through delays and bureaucracy usa has stayed rex tillerson says washington has direct channels of communication with north korea to see whether pyongyang is interested in dialogue to listen has been holding high level talks in china about tension on the korean peninsula the u.s. wants china's influence to curb north korea's nuclear and missile program hundreds of ringing the refugees who've crossed into bangladesh are lining up to receive aid at the could to prolong camp buying today she's of mobilized to help some of the half a million people escape the violence in the un refugee agency in the government have been providing food and other relief military cargo plane has crashed in democratic
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republic of congo at least twelve crew members have been killed those are the headlines up front is up next. in an age of simplistic narratives the listening post critiques the mainstream response exposing the influences that drive the headlines at this time on al-jazeera this week donald trump announced a revolutionary tax cut for the united states but is he its biggest beneficiary renowned economist and former advisor to ronald reagan and to trump. and we'll also debate whether one is turning into a dictatorship we. would . thanks for joining me up front
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you've advised donald trump on his tax plan in the past a plan this administration has called the biggest tax cut in history and that you've been full of praise for you've said trump is phenomenal for the u.s. economy given this is an administration stuffed with millionaires and billionaires and led by a self-proclaimed billionaire is it any wonder that is seen as a tax cut of the rich by the rich for the rich that so many tax experts are saying this is a tax cut for the one percent not for the poor blue collar working class voters who trump was supposed to champion i don't think that's a correct a picture whatsoever but i think it's trying to make everyone millionaires billionaires and millionaires i mean this is a plan to get everyone to economic growth and give everyone a shot at the at the apple i mean this is a place to get economic growth to take people off the welfare rolls to put them on the income roles and to really create american prosperity much the way we did with president ronald reagan and the way it was done with president jack kennedy as well
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and president bill clinton whom i supported all the way as well president clinton didn't do a tax cut like this but president says this tax cut won't benefit him personally quote it's not good for me believe me he said. but why should we believe him apart from the fact that he's a pathological liar to quote your friend. your friend republican senator ted cruz unlike every president since jimmy carter trump has refused to release his tax returns so we don't know what he's liable for and a lot of people think he's hiding something. they can think whatever they want mehdi i haven't seen his tax return and i really have no desire to see it whatsoever to be honest ok well a lot of people do have a desire because i want to know if he's giving himself a big tax cut let's be clear with what we journos let's be clear what we do know based on this week's tax cut plan number one president trump has had to pay tens of millions of dollars in the past in the form of the alternative minimum tax the a.m.t. a number two trumps wealth which he says is a lot would be subject to the estate tax upon his death so what does this tax plan
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do it gets rid of the t.v. and it gets rid of the estate tax when when for trump when when for trump's rich friends now very honestly most people in the three level of wealth of donald trump don't pay a state taxes anyways medi they have all sorts of lawyers and accounts and get rid of it the tax codes are full of loopholes to get around that so i don't know what his tax planning has been but most of the rich people will not be affected by the estate tax that is known correct they don't really want the on the a.m.t. trump we know because the two no i didn't five tax return was late paid some more than thirty million dollars thanks to the a.m.t. without the a.m.t. he benefits by thirty million dollars at least let me just say this about that if i can they are also eliminating the state and local tax deduction and i haven't done the calculations for trump's personal returns and i don't have any desire to do it either but getting rid of state and local tax deductions would hurt him a lot but getting rid of the a.m.t. will help him i don't know what the net balance is but all going to college or
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they're not so if you're saying you don't know with an advisor you don't want to know you don't want to see the tax return that's the only way we will know we only know you pay and i don't care about i don't care about price of the united states is a bit like me giving himself millions of dollars in tax cuts that expose i don't know i don't care as long as he helps everyone else the corporate tax rate reduction will increase employment output production bring jobs back home from abroad it's a huge plus now if you go through the ek and of metric models and all the logic of this and all the studies it shows the corporate tax rate reduction will have a huge impact on us output a tax cut that you mention just for the sake of all. with what you're a big favorite i guess it is your big thing is down from thirty five percent is a proposal to twenty percent you wanted fifteen transplant really wanted fifteen he wants to do that though at a time when corporate profits as a share of g.d.p. in the us a higher than they've ever been have risen dramatically since two thousand and corporate tax payments are a smaller share of g.d.p. than they were several decades ago why do it now corporations are already sitting on lots of cash making lots of cash but hey let's give them more money. what no
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it's not giving them money it's giving them incentive to make profits they're already making and we're going to be there already sitting and yes i thought i was so it's not really the place you want to direct your title so what what you really want to do if i may betty is you don't want them to make their money by tax shelters and evasion and avoidance and haven't companies go abroad what you want to do is to make them have the incentive to increase investments output employment production which is exactly what this plan does the reason we have such low corporate tax revenues is because we have the highest tax rate in the world not you know that's a good neutral on paper as you yourself said moments ago most of these rich people use loopholes and deductions to get out of it you know very well that the effective corporate tax rate in the u.s. is around eight hundred nineteen percent lower it's even lower than that really lower than that at a lower level are you but reading that because of corporations investor why it's low you know why it's low is because corporations find it attractive and valuable to hire lawyers accountants deferred income special shelter that income instead of paying the tax but if you drop the rate they won't find it worthwhile now to pay
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their darn taxes well let's look at the companies already are paying very little tax you would accept there are a lot of companies as you just. gets a rebate in some years that you know is that amazed i don't get companies like those when you look at the studies that were done this year plenty of you talked about economic models plenty of studies showing those corporations have not been increasing jobs despite the fact they have no corporate tax bill it hasn't translated into higher jobs a lot of experts agree that cutting corporation tax rates just boosts shareholder profits dividends bonuses it doesn't translate into higher job you've seen those studies you have to agree with them but you know regardless how do i know this i know the studies better than anyone this is might not be all that is on the complete summer well it is true and i can just tell you the preponderance of information is that the corporate tax rate reduction is the thump of adrenaline into the heart of the economy and will increase output growth production employment just look at across the board why did all those countries in the o.e.c.d. from two thousand till today every single country. for the u.s.
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and hungry in the o.e.c.d. has dropped their corporate tax rates dramatically we were notified of and i asked i don't doubt whether now or the high up in that same period was not a record job expansion the corporate tax has not hurt job growth on the barack obama that well that's not true it is true obama was a terrible economy the whole adult why you are saying that is why the democrats want like sunshine in recent years you're just denying the official figures of course it's not true we have not we have a much better chance than under kennedy and under right going to have not going to argue we're coming to the rest of the world you said the other countries in the world drop that corporate tax rates and i'm saying america without doing that job growth so you'll see it doesn't hold that if you cut. new jobs why do all these countries do it and why did the american voters throw the democrats out because they were so happy with what they look at all of that going to say you are because they didn't work out it didn't work let's look at the evidence and that's why we're why did they all cut tax rates in the o.e.c.d. did they do it to get worst ok i interviewed you a couple of years ago and we talked about kansas in two thousand and twelve just for the sake of a global audience some background you in council republican i don't know my
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goodness let me just say the point and you respond you encounters republican governor brownback came up with a tax plan for kansas which many people say donald trump borrowed from his model in kansas it's been a disaster it's the budget deficit cuts in school funding insufficient tax revenues it was so bad that in june of this year a republican led state legislature rolled back the tax plan brought in tax rises your tax experiment in kansas in the roof of the studies in the real world we tried what you say and it was it was a failure there are fifty states in this country i've done lots of work with lots of states prop thirteen in california where you have really just a different kind of candidate as it is let's talk about you know who doesn't do what i did i didn't do that and that was sam brownback plan and i think it was a good come out of everyone i mean economics journalist an economist knows that you were the main advisor that plan sam brownback has identified you as part of that plan but you say you had nothing to do with the plan or are you saying the plan was good we didn't. so i thought the plan i thought the plan was good but sam brownback
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did that plan i did and i came in after he had announced his plan but that's ok yeah i think sam brownback plan did help kansas and there kansas has lots of other things going on agricultural prices falling oil prices falling and all of that i thought maybe it's not a big. now the big the big test years because of sam brownback plan missouri cut its tax rate by ten percent across the board in response so that they wouldn't lose all the jobs to kansas if if if emulation isn't the biggest form of flattery i don't know what it would have republicans republicans rolling back your tax fund isn't evidence that is a failure i don't know what is you said to me in twenty fourteen given the time you didn't decide and then you said give it more time it'll be great just what you're saying now about trump's tax plan your predictions didn't work then they're not going to now is what many would say. that many would be wrong are you saying it was a bad plan nothing to do with you or you still think it was a good plan and you don't buy that it would lead to a budget deficit tax revenues falling education spending. i will tell you exactly
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the plan that sam brownback had was a good plan i thought it would be good for kansas and that is not the plan the legislature passed that he finally signed and i did not have anything to do with the writing of that plan although i did think it was a good plan and i thought it would do a lot of good and i still think it did do good ok ok ok to be fair to you you've never claimed to be a deficit hawk or a balanced budget obsessive but both donald trump and almost all republican members of congress have claimed to be at some stage or another they were all up in on they have over the size of the deficit and the debt as you know under barack obama so isn't it now complete hypocrisy on their part to be supporting a trump tax plan which according to none nonpartisan tax experts will od two point two trillion dollars net to the debt over the next ten years well first place those plans are those models are wrong but i would like to say i don't know. i understand their i don't know of a politician who is not hypocritical to be honest with anywhere in the world that's their nature they're born that way you and i can agree on kind of deficits all i'm
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saying is at a time when the economy is already growing jobs are already growing it's not a recession as it was on the george w. bush's tax cut or in the role of reagan's tax cut you know the federal reserve threatening to raise interest rates four dozen economists told the national association for business economics recently the growth won't reach the three percent the claims that you suggest will happen there they're all four dozen or a common us are wrong on that everybody can say. that everyone got history is wrong kansas is wrong no no only the ones you cite are wrong not all of you haven't seen the vast majority well i cited all the literature on that on the growth where you can find it in the academic literature i mean all of it including gentlemen to the united states right now that can you point to anyone who says right now that the us is going to hit three four percent growth with a model a published study. oh i think there will be a lot to do you could look at my published studies by the way you concord will sell for what i was for a ref what i know but i know that i believe she had been a professor all my life and what i have and i cite all the i cited all the are
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essential here and all the growth i mean but let me just say that the growth under reagan when we did the cuts from january first eighty three to june thirtieth eighty four the growth during that eighteen month period was twelve percent in real terms or an annual rate of eight per cent com pouted annually it was same thing was under candidate with the go go sixty's same thing under harding coolidge and the same thing under bill clinton all of them following my models you're one of the few people who predicted a donald trump election victory last year when i thought i was the worst predictor no no no in politics you were good maybe not only good you probably. perfectly spot on last year you've supported him pretty much ever since i just wanted to as a leading economist and a conservative voice for several decades now a former advisor to president reagan among others how does someone like yourself persuade yourself to support to buy a president who attacks n.f.l. players for peacefully protesting racism while calling me a nazi protest is very fine people who get a tax a news anchor for saying she's bleeding from
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a face goes goldfield almost every week and calls news organizations like ours the enemies of the people lies about the size of the crowd it is an organization lies about the number of votes he receives lies about what's in his health care bill lies about obama wiretapping his phones lies about. trying to start a nuclear war with north korea on twitter how does someone a smart educated serious person such as yourself put back a man like that could i just tell you i was in the white house from one nine hundred seventy to seventy two i was on the first trip to china in the october of one thousand which is why i'm wondering why i don't support this guy i've been around seventy seven years in this planet and i plan to be around for a lot more so i plan a lot more discussions with you but i see it all and i think any type of pissing going out one president as being the worst of all bad and his. critical in every regard all this stuff is nonsense they've all had their pluses and their minuses but frankly on economics this guy is very good and will do a good job and you'll see america prosper as
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a result that is my opinion right as of the present you trust him on the economy you trust him you trust donald trump so far i trust the legislation i don't trust anyone until it's done and i see this legislation going through and once it's passed i think it will be terrific for america and for the rest of the world besides by the way no one is better off with a weak america no one has the thanks for joining me on outfront thank you very much it's fun to do be with you again. it's sixteen years since the u.s. began its war in afghanistan and president truman now wants to escalate it in this week's reality check up from producer kim and all the examines the real cost of the never ending war against the taliban sixteen years gone more than one million u.s. dollars spent and over thirty thousand civilian deaths u.s. present donald trump wants to spend more time and more money in afghanistan even though he said himself in two thousand and fifteen point that they're going to be there for the next two hundred years you know like
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a point what's going on and to get them back so how bad of a mess to the u.s. really make for one it wasted billions a u.s. government study found the united states contributed mightily to the problems in afghanistan by dumping too much money with too little oversight and how much money one investigation found the u.s. can wander seventeen billion dollars and countless badly researched and poorly strategize projects like fighting the opium trade is two thousand to the u.s. has spent eight point five billion dollars on counter-narcotics efforts and yet there's been a forty three percent increase in opium production or take other culture the u.s. spent millions of dollars to persuade afghans to farm and eat. only research already show. they're hard to grow and afghans don't like them a thirty four million dollar preventable failure meanwhile what happened the taliban while the group went from being completely driven out of the country just
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two months after the us led invasion in two thousand and one to today controlling our contesting uli forty percent of a can of what went wrong a lot of things one fundamental factor was that even though taliban governance is not something most afghans wish for many found it more tolerable than the misgovernance power abuse and corruption they face from the state can you blame them since the us led invasion poverty unemployment underemployment violent migration internal displacement and education gender gap have increased and so have civilian casualties is it any wonder afghans make up the second highest number of refugees in the world today despite all these consequences the us now wants to spend more money again and send more troops again al up the military operate with even less micromanagement from washington to continue trying to defeat the taliban they may just be there for two hundred years after all.
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one of them president paul kagame he was reelected in august for the third time with nearly ninety nine percent of the vote he'll serve another seven year term till twenty twenty four and with the constitution amended could theoretically stay on in power till twenty thirty four while many have praise konami for reviving rwanda after its brutal genocide especially its economy others have become increasingly concerned that the president and former rebel leader is turning the country into a dictatorship joining me in the arena to debate this are david him bara a former advisor to paul kagame who now lives in exile and has become a fierce critic of the rule on the leader and in kigali gets eighteen nearing gabo a senior fellow at the institute of policy analysis and research on the supporter of the government thank you both for joining me on up front let me start with the president was reelected in august with nearly ninety nine percent of the vote that's the kind of victory that saddam hussein used to get it's the kind of victory that would make kim jong. now listen if it was up to me to ok scented is
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the words i would have given him what sixty five seventy eighty ninety i don't know but it's not something that people decides it's what happened why did it happen because why would people not vote for him people never ask these questions why would people not vote for him what's the example where they want to be. like kenya you know the drill in kenya now. so they they were limited for him if you maintain stability or elected united states i mean you have to look at what other votes have happened and look at what results they have given ok well let me bring in david him by who is here with me in the studio david where there is ninety nine percent ninety percent eighty percent whatever the point is they want a landslide victory he is a popular charismatic president whether you like him or not you can't deny that many many rwandans do like him elections assume independence institutions judiciary parliament. so in this case
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you have a president that appoints the judiciary appoints and fires so he is a king of wonder so i would be surprised if we didn't get actually i'm surprised he didn't get one hundred percent. he's the king of rwanda system if it doesn't sound very democratic right so we've enjoyed twenty three years for the first family that he's in the person degraded seems to have run into the first time we went through twenty three years or one interrupted peace and stability that means that enjoys. the support of the people do you believe the presidential election get out it was a free and fair election i was here i went through what course they did because the us state department said we are disturbed by irregularities observed during voting we reiterate long standing concerns over the interval integrity and transparency of the process. what does that mean what it means and i'm happy with the way the
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election and the ninety nine percent result then will happen maybe if we observed this you know that these. are not being happy is not something they can control well they say they say they observed irregularities but let me just put this point to david used to be a close advisor of paul kagame if you worked with him so who changed over the years he changed to you changed let me put it this way twenty ten which is when i left is a year that changed the entire equation in of wonder opposition leader killed media people killed. i came to discuss nations or people who fled everything that could go when and that's when i left that was not me previous to that. it was a third of thirty and but not that often the violence that we're so that's what
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made me leave is indisputable isn't it in recent years rwanda's come under heavy criticism from human rights groups such as amnesty international human rights watch for its human rights record even the united states government close ally of rwanda big donor to rwanda said in twenty sixteen state department report the most important human rights problems in rwanda were government harassment arrest and abuse of political opponents restrictions on media freedom arbitrary killings torture sounds pretty awful. yes so i will give you an example of human rights watch when one writes what's just published reports that these people who see the cows and goats in rwanda as the shots and what they also say is that this is goddamn is direct orders to shoot. and that kind of lets the whole news people against new programmers go second we don't even know if this is true and third who in his right mind even people who did the general say have
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been released and go home with a really embarrassed you don't you don't like human rights watch but i didn't quote human rights watch i quoted the united states government close ally of the rwandan government which said restrictions on media freedom arbitrary killings torture government harassment arrest of political opponents are they lying are they making it up why would they do that they're friends of yours i wonder why i didn't see faking the moon landing and so on maybe you giving me rolled statements give me that they were me x. was killed y. was david david it's all it's not specific it's too vague he's not accepted what do you say to them where do i begin i tempted assassination of a human in my sense of africa that ended up in a court the people who were hired to kill this man were sentenced to jail but the court the judge said that he is sending the wrong people to jail and the people there should be sent to jail or has the musters who sent him from london from
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that's a record britain scotland yard warned one than one and they were being targeted for assassination so that i did as you live abroad in this wouldn't you live abroad you a critic of rwanda or fear for your own life you know yes of course canadian security organs have to take and to keep an eye on me everyone who. is opposed to this regime especially those fucking ones their targets protected us do you do you dispute the fact that a lot of rwanda next especially critics are going to have ended up other dead almost dead. i dispute this for the following reason so there's only one man who died who was called. there and then there is the human and west. and who is as a nation's i've been established now in both cases there was never any evidence
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linking linking these people who did these things. to the random government who was liberated we are almost out of time i want to ask a question about the future one final question to both of you get a day thanks to a change in the constitution paul could only could now serve as president theoretically to twenty thirty four he's already been president for seventeen years do you really think rwandans want need should have another seventeen years of the same president really for now if you asked me today i think yes i would tell you why they are just like german people they look around europe you're going to work they see this is the global leadership crisis this is the list that we probably we're here we're all going to let these people go so if you ask me as i look today we'll talk about that in the next seven years but as of today when the people are just like german people like everyone was having it exceptionally that need our global leadership crisis why would one of the people that got me go if they see what's happening in kenya right now with. david
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final question do you think could not only will still be around come twenty thirty four i think you'll be around seventy seven then yes he will be a truce that's what he plans. and we know from the constitution why he wants to hang on. in the in their trying to constitution they have. won fourteen which says that the former head of state may be. due to a prosecuted for crimes including treason meted. in office so you the power to protect himself and this clothes that he hopes he will stay and then beyond the clothes he thinks that that was what protect him if we were of course knowing the history of rwanda. who came by and mentally and here
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he'd have to bite into the well i don't understand it and it being different we'll have to leave it there thank you both for joining me in the arena that's our show from will be back next week. a new level of luxury has arrived. an experience that will transform the way we treat. our impeccable service remain. but now come breaking. down with. the freak. weather conducting business sharing especially. the list of.
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centuries. to speak. to us. going places together. this is al jazeera live from studio fourteen here at all to their headquarters in doha on the mall santa maria well.


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