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tv   Inside Story 2017 Ep 336  Al Jazeera  December 4, 2017 3:32am-4:00am +03

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infighting between opposition supporters and security forces the electoral commission is yet to declare a winner as of now president orlando and as is now really ahead of the opposition candidate salvador nasra his supporters say some of the results of the million pilate it and night time curfew has been imposed across the country for a third day in a row. the palestinian authority is calling for emergency talks over the possibility of the u.s. embassy in israel being moved from tel aviv to jerusalem the arab league and the organization of islamic cooperation the oh i see being asked to host that meeting israel's government considers its considers all of jerusalem its capital and the palestinians hope that east jerusalem with the capital of their future state palestinian president mahmoud abbas has warned of a new dangerous phase of the u.s. moves its embassy and recognizes jerusalem as israel's capital and carter's foreign minister says to me about how middle time he will attend the gulf cooperation
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council meeting in kuwait on tuesday the regional alliance is facing its worst crisis in decades is the saudi led blockade of qatar now into a seventh month foreign minister mohammed bin up to handle time he says he hopes the summit will provide a blueprint for ending the standoff those are your headlines here on al-jazeera inside story starts right now. for some it's a red line for others it could ignite violence across the region so why is the u.s. government considering moving its embassy in israel from tel aviv to jerusalem this is inside story.
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hello and welcome to the program today with me it is one of the most contentious issues in the world a question that's been asked but never properly answered for half a century where in israel do you base your embassy well most countries have their embassies in tel aviv but that could change this week for the united states president donald trump is reportedly considering moving the u.s. embassy to jerusalem essentially recognizing that city as the capital of israel mr trump is expected to make the announcement either on tuesday or weapons day arab leaders have been very vocal about their opposition to such a move some have even accused mr trump of quote playing with fire others say it will fuel extremism palestinian president mahmoud abbas has previously warned the
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white house against moving the embassy not. that i'm not the man we say to mr trump that we hope he will not move the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem because drew slim from the israeli point of view if united and this is not correct and is illegal moving the embassy anywhere will be a step ahead of anything that may happen in the future and will damage the peace process while speaking in washington this weekend the former israeli prime minister ehud barak welcomed this possible move. i like the idea very much we grew it it didn't happen ten twenty or sixty five years ago i think that all embassies of all nations should be i don't think that this is a consequential event especially if it would be the other thing we played been known in advance and explained to them doesn't it close the door on any future american effort in one thousand nine hundred five during the clinton administration the u.s. congress passed legislation on moving the embassy this was supposed to happen by
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may the thirty first one thousand nine hundred nine but there was a provision in the law that allowed the president to sign a waiver every six months in the name of national security and every president since one nine hundred ninety eight has done that even donald trump himself back in june put in the embassy in jerusalem is controversial because the eastern part of the city is palestinian territory being illegally occupied by israel under international law. ok there we are here we go joining us on inside story from ramallah moustapha barghouti secretary-general of the palestinian national initiative in london daniel levy president of the u.s. middle east project and formally an advisor to israel's a good barak and joining us on skype from riyadh hussein even senior resident scholar at the arab gulf states institute in washington and a frequent contributor to the atlantic welcome to you all mustapha barghouti
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potentially what does this mean. it's a very dangerous act. act if it happens it would mean that the united states has decided to kill what is called the peace process it would also mean that the united states has decided to eliminate its role as a mediator in any future peace process but most important it would make the united states administration and mr trump person of the participants in a war crime in violation of international law. and in my believe this would mean that the united states is also participating in the consolidation and supporting a system of apartheid because we are talking here about a commission of jerusalem which includes. an exception of an occupied east jerusalem this is a violation of international law this would also mean that the united states is dragging itself into serious problems with its own allies i don't know how this
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will end but i don't think they understand the sensitivity of the issue we're talking about jerusalem jerusalem is a very important place for one point six million one point six billion muslims two point two billion christians and no less than three hundred sixty million arabs this would be a dangerous move this could invite not only violence but a whole turmoil in the middle east let's or remember that the second intifada started specifically because of the issue of jerusalem so no palestinian will accept that and that would be the end of any american role in this place regarding any future peace process ok when you're talking about the second intifada there you're making reference of course to when ariel sharon went to the al aqsa mosque daniel levy in london explained to me if you can the recent israeli reaction to this because they were very hot for this then they got a bit lukewarm they're not cold when netanyahu was quite quiet on this topic. well
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i think the israeli position is and you heard it from the former prime minister barak. they should happen they're going to embrace it they are going to encourage it perhaps more vocally less vocally i think there may have been some hesitation in as much as they saw this playing out in american domestic politics more than it was playing out ves of the developments in the middle east and therefore some on the israeli side and certainly in the israeli security establishment may have thought. not a good idea now because this could undermine of the relations that israel has been quietly building in the region and of course i would add to what mr barghouti said that jerusalem does also matter to the approximately sixty million jews around the world i think the issue here is that you have a u.s. administration that may be reaching new heights in its management of this file by
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some of its senior personnel of ignorance arrogance and prejudice and that this could hurt the american national security interest which is why this is never been done before but and this is important to remember and it's not just about the embassy moved by the way it could also be an act and is likely to be possibly and that that fall short of moving the embassy but that recognizes jerusalem as israel's capital if that's just the jerusalem within the sixteenth set sixty seven lines perhaps not such a problem but i doubt that will be the case but what one has to remember is that this is not just about the trumpet ministration this is also continue a-t. of american policy the reason we're discussing this peta is as you mentioned congress passed the at every six months that congressional act has to be discussed so this is a deep structural feature of american policy which is why it is nothing new for
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america. to not be an effective broker not be an american broker and why it is a fifth failed and flawed structural strategy for the palestinians or anyone else to believe that america can help deliver their rights the end of occupation or peace ok but how can they do that when you talk about them briefly please when you talk about them embracing it what we're talking about here is a thing called corpus separatism it's un resolution one eight one eight goes back more than half a century jerusalem as a sovereign capital states doesn't actually exist on paper to anyone anyway so the starting point is flawed. yes the starting point is flawed but the starting premise of the entire american policy is flawed and that's the point i'm making actually i think it's less important what the trumpet ministration dolls and far more important whether the palestinian leadership responds by fundamentally changing
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their strategy whether the people on the ground respond as they did in the summer by saying this will not pass when you have the israeli unilateral attempt to impose new conditions in jerusalem and whether the arab world and especially the place where hussein ibish is sitting in riyadh says no because they are the ones who have the closest relationship with the current us administration and i think we need to be looking at that a lot more than what trump may or may not say actually present what are the chances that the arab world says no because if the genie is let out of the bottle this surely doesn't become an issue for the palestinians this becomes this becomes a religious issue therefore it's arabs palestinians israelis jews and also christians to it depends entirely on what trumped up i don't think i mean a lot of the conversation so far has a great deal about what it used going to do and i don't think we know and to put it in perspective yes this comes up every six months but it's not an issue every
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six months i mean if the president is not considering not reassuring the way very usually just almost always passes without comment so it's not a forever you know it's you know it comes up when an administration is wavering on a few i think daniel's right that trump is very unlikely to move the embassy because nothing's changed since he didn't renew the waiver six months ago so the calculation implied it applies now the problem that trump faces is that he's under a lot of pressure from his various constituents only right wing jewish americans who supported him but you banjo christian. i think very much that others on the republican far right to whom you feel beholden as well as some of his inner circle who would like this to happen and they're not going to get it or not going to get this in all likelihood so there's a kind of parsing of the difference here between the american national interest in
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muck raking up this controversy and trump's political obligation you know to do something on through some sony might make some kind of statement now the arab reaction and the broader arab reaction as well as the policy and then international reaction i think will depend entirely on how it's framed let's say trump does say something that recognizes israel's jerusalem capital there are all kinds of permutations here is it a personal generalized sentiment does he make a distinction between east jerusalem and west through does he do the easy to get reflected in u.s. policy in other words will state department documents and other documents start referring to droop slim comma is irrelevant in jerusalem you know these are all important questions that will have to be asked since the nature of the reaction i believe will depend a great deal on two factors number one. how provocative is it because you could design this kind of statement with a very wide range of degree of harm that it could cause right and i'm putting more
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or less that we will go to school for parents but to react or also there's a question of what the political calculation is so on the left are stuff about who to carry on. well let me say that unfortunately some arabs have become so accustomed to justifying whatever the american policy is and what we see here is not by just a show of yours and by the way there is no difference between declaring your dues on him as a capitol visitor article nice and that and moving the embassy to the capital it's the same thing it's the same thing justifying the annexation of the trees it's the same thing of participating in a war crime according to the international court of justice but is an illusion and i believe this is not only the issue of jerusalem if we look at the whole american
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team mr greenblatt mr kushner and the rest of them david friedman for instance who are there they have their supporting totally and completely unconditionally israeli views these this is showing that this american administration is the government and controlled by the zionist lobby in washington who is controlling the decisions of the congress when it comes to the middle east issues and which is now affecting this administration and don't try to defend them which is affecting this administration because look at their position regarding settlements it's much worse than any other previous government look at their position regarding the issue of palestinian statehood this administration is the only one that did not spit is the word two state solution so stop justifying the american administration stop doing that it's disgusting but you're making something up if you're accusing me of doing
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that you're lying so stop right now i'm not justifying. you know you are you are to doing something wrong. if you want to be smart instead of stupid you don't box yourself in what you do is you get yourself we'll root for matt snoring was a bad word that's due a bit is the one who uses the word stupid don't to be don't you be unplugged instead of this you are wrong and you're politically like that i mean you don't and it's against the interest of the palestinian people and i gave the nod to that was that people don't justify what i don't think could be interesting and people are going to as i me just take a pause can we just take a pause gentlemen if let's just take a pause because otherwise it becomes a fight not a conversation and then nobody gets to digest what your central message is david levy in london just pick up on that point for us the hussein ibish is making there about wriggle room if you have on the one hand saying this is a red line you have an echo chamber of views and when was when this was first
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floated facts are facts of all people then said will what will happen is recognition or physically move the building on the stuff you will then be in a situation where embassies are being closed around the world as a tit for tat move so if that happens via recognition of physically moving the embassy the wriggle room doesn't happen from day one well i think the wriggle room happens in the context which we may well face in the coming days of this being a decision that can be as hussein ibish suggested interpreted in more than one way however given the backdrop of the position of this is ministration and given the history before this administration of the american role my sense is that it would be. not a smart thing it would not be conducive to the belated achievement of palestinian
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rights enfranchise went into your queue patient for the palestinians to choose the wiggle room option it seems to me that this may actually be an opportunity for palestinians to distance themselves from the failed attempt and it's failed for deep structural reasons which are sane actually help explain in terms of the american system for deep structural reasons of relying on the americans and it may actually be helpful to avoid what could be a disastrous lee dangerous peace plan so-called peace plan it will be the opposite to advancing peace that this is ministration may then put forward so i think the question becomes these statements that you read peter the fatah leaders have made about what will be the consequence i would suggest being a little less ambitious a little less far reaching but far more clear and actually consistent in pursuing
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a refusal to go along with this and to say to the arab hinterland the muslim interland i'm not a part of that as you can gather we know that the jordanian king is deeply disturbed by this and is working to try and prevent this but i think the question for those closest to this is ministration in saudi arabia in the u.a.e. and elsewhere but especially in those two capitals is to decide for saudi arabia for instance do they want to be the custody of the two holy mosques and me abandon our of the holy place in jerusalem in our locks and i think that is a hard question and one that i think would put them in a position which would be deeply uncomfortable and hopefully they would come up with the right answer and if those positions are no clear in the next couple of days then i think that will impact the decision of the president ok hussein in riyadh wriggle room involve. choreography choreography involves people have they
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got the wrong person involved in this jared point number one because of all the flynn stuff that we were discussing yesterday here on inside story but also point number two he has a back story he has a very warm longstanding relationship with benjamin netanyahu and on top of that he's been having these off the radar conversations in riyadh that is not going to please people like mr barghouti the palestinians in the occupied territories which as we know the illegal and it's maybe not going to please anyone other than donald trump. right so just i mean i'd like to just before answering that i'd like to say that the very good point that daniel raised about the conundrum that gulf states and others may face next week would have a lot to do with precisely what i was talking about and what language does it's like if this is language only about west rules look then the question about it really doesn't come up directly and certainly not in the same way as if you're it's very very good and if it's a policy statement that's one thing and if it's
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a personal opinion that's something else so all the seams actually are really significant and none of this is to justify how you think the president's saying one thing i don't think presidents when you're the president speaking as the president you don't get to give possible opinions of course you do there's a very big difference between expressing a sentiment and a policy directive that has practical consequences for the conduct of the bureaucracy those are really are different things and certainly you know there's a difference we can formal statement and interview where it really can be entirely personal like obama used to do this will be more than that but the nature of the wording will determine the policy implications and that's significant now as jared kushner a question i met but in a way all of this is a dumb idea i think goes without saying nobody is justifying and nobody thinks it's anything on them stupid and wrong and wrong headed ok but there are degrees of that and we should be open to the degrees mr cushier is probably not the ideal person
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for multiple reasons with one exception he is apparently trusted by the president of the united states who for good or ill is that thing and therefore if anything can be accomplished in washington and that i'm not a damned thing is just about we don't think so either i would not have chosen him but he does not give us the stuff about is there a softening of what we think you think jerrod cush now has been talking about and is imminently about to talk about in washington that would be acceptable to all the palestinians. no there is no way you can justify or. dilute an issue like recognizing. him as a capital. how can i do that anyway any anybody who tries to justify that by the way stupidity does not come in in grades it's either stupid or not stupid and i'm sorry that your guest is using impolite words when he speaks but let me say
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something mr kushner himself is now in trouble he is in trouble because of their connections with the russian issue and i am sure he is probably being abused at the moment by the zionist lobby although he supports the zionist lobby i'm sure they are being abused today to get this thing from the american administration and i believe this is a very reckless act it's very dangerous one i don't think the people who are making this isn't decision decision are understanding exactly the consequences of what can happen but i do agree with something that daniel said which is that we need an alternative strategy as palestinians it's enough to keep talking about a dead peace process which is dead it's not acceptable to keep thinking of the united states as a mediator after what it has done. what we need is an alternative strategy what we need is a strategy that concentrates on changing the balance of power between us and israel
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as long as we are weak this american administration and this israel or the ministration will go on doing what is totally totally unexpected don't you leave just interrupt just in front because we are heading to getting towards the end of the program daniel levy and london that's the key question here isn't it if they do this and no other country has wanted to do it because every other country's embassy is in tel aviv but if the us does this or does some form of recognition the reality is this you get the israelis you lose the palestinians you get the palestinians you lose the israelis how can the u.s. then say we are an impartial broker of a peace process which according to mr off about beauty is dead and buried anyway i think not just according to the stuff about acting according to any sentiment being who's been following this you have to base your policy in what these internationally legal and what is. acceptable and in an understanding of the power dynamics and therefore one thing we can be
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clear up if any act in this direction is undertaken in the coming days what the signal this sends is further not just impunity for israel but encouragement for the very extremism of the israeli government that is undermining any prospect for peace so the message you are sending is keep going israel in your illegal activities and that is a devastating message to be sent and that is the message that would be sent unfortunately if they do this and i don't think this needs any encouragement from any lobby of a way that often is the case right the last point the last point i want to make to hussein even in riyadh there is something here that has to be dealt with and it's this surely this is an inconvenient truth we have a u.s. president that's maybe just about to do something that we have never seen before and the reality is that whether it's so the arabia with the royal household in
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riyadh whether it's the palestinians in ramallah whether it's the israel israeli state in jerusalem they have to accept this we have not seen this kind of implementation through the prism of middle east peace in inverted commas that is donald trump's last. yes if whatever they do on jerusalem if you even if it's the most mild statement will be a very bad thing and it's totally unnecessary from the point of view of american i'm goals a national interest and therefore it needs to be viewed for what it is which will be an expression of domestic american political considerations read that's not a justification of anything that's that's the reality behind it now the intelligent response on everybody's part and you know look at it in great detail and charitably consider what the smartest response is to achieve their goals and so let me use the
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word intelligence and appeal to people to look at it carefully and react intelligent and i think that's what needs to be done here hopefully the administration itself will be intelligent enough to back away from this folly which i have explained is a bad idea in many other tickles this year gentlemen we have to leave it there thank you to all our guests and stuff about daniel levy and hussein the patients thank you too for your company you can see the program again any time via the website dot com and for more discussion check out our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story can also join the conversation on twitter at a.j. inside story or tweet me i'll tweet you back i'm at peace at the one for me and the entire team here in doha thanks for watching we will talk to you very soon five.
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