tv Inside Story 2018 Ep 23 Al Jazeera January 23, 2018 8:32pm-9:01pm +03
you know it's right to robert mueller the united states vice president my pen says visit the western wall in occupied east jerusalem during the second and final day of his visit to israel the wall in the old city is one of the holiest sites in judea isms. thousands of people are fleeing fighting in the northern syrian region of free amid turkey's challis a ground operation take his offensive which also involves strikes is now in its fourth day explains some eight hundred thousand civilians are living there many of them displaced from other parts of syria. the u.s. secretary of state says the syrian government may still be using chemical weapons right susan says twenty one people who suffered breathing problems in a rebel held enclave need to mask its on monday were victims of a suspected chlorine gas attack aid workers in the democratic republic of congo are warning of mass starvation because of continuing conflict they say three million
people in the castle region do not have enough to eat and that includes four hundred thousand children. all right you're up to date with the headlines now for news coming up in just twenty five minutes we'll see them by for. more u.s. backing for israel and palestinian president like the u.s. embassy will be. next and washington will back two state solution but only if both sides agree and so much distrust and despair that u.s. policy is the so-called peace process still relevant this is inside story.
other than welcome to the program i'm laura kyle donald trump's recent recognition of jerusalem as the capital of israel provoked protests and outrage among palestinians the allies and other critics worldwide that anger hasn't been placated with the visit of the u.s. vice president the divided city israeli palestinian members of parliament were forcibly removed was listening to his speech the applause in the class it was especially loud when pence promised the move of the u.s. embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem will be complete by the end of next year and when he repeatedly referred to jerusalem as the capital of israel we'll get to our panel in just a moment but first harry forsett reports from west jerusalem. on
the day he would become the first u.s. vice president to address israel's parliament the knesset mike pence was greeted with almost presidential ceremony by israel's prime minister he didn't take long to return the favor by a great offer to be out of the president's state of the be. israel's capital jerusalem. it was a description of jerusalem that pence would repeat three times during his set piece a vent. not before he was interrupted by israeli palestinian members of the knesset decrying the u.s. position and any prospect of u.s. involvement in the peace process there in force departure cleared the way for pens to speak to two other audiences israelis and u.s. evangelical christians for whom the jerusalem declaration was a major campaign pledge in the weeks ahead our administration will advance its plan to open the united states embassy in jerusalem. and that united states embassy will open before the end of next year pence's said that his faith largely determines his
longstanding backing for israel this speech fused that religiosity with as often the near total political support of the trumpet ministration for the government of the watching benjamin netanyahu including its position on iran i have a solemn promise to israel to all the middle east and to the world the united states of america will never allow iran to acquire a nuclear weapon. he said the u.s. would back a two state solution if both israelis and palestinians agreed and israel's security could be guaranteed and put the onus on the palestinians to come to the table mr trump gave them jerusalem i mean what an honest broker that is the deal of the century in which jerusalem plays a major role above all this speech threw into sharp relief the different realities which the united states in israel on one side and the palestinian leadership on the
other an operating in the palestinians this was further damage after donald trump's december declaration further evidence the united states could not be an honest broker for israeli ministers they were calling it emotional inspiring even zionist netanyahu later added his voice calling it a magnificent speech in particular complimenting its focus on what he called the evil regime in iran it was a powerful explosion of the enduring bond between our two countries and of your personal commitment to israel the commitment of president and your entire delegation on the first full day of his visit mike pence has earned the fulsome praise of his hosts and they have a stronger rejection by palestinian leadership of any u.s. role in the resolution of this conflict will set al-jazeera wester slim. well palestinians say east jerusalem which is occupied by israel is the future capital of palestine the president of the passing of thora he has been in brussels
to rally support for a palestinian state. the talks were abut the recognition of the state of palestine when the importance of this despite some media saying that it could stop negotiations never you recognize the state of israel and you recognize the state of palestine and then we go to the negotiations and we are not the ones who are delaying or stopping the negotiations. let's bring in our guest now and joining us from ramallah nora day she's a former spokeswoman for the palestinian or thoresby and devils mark for her assistant faster at the doha institute for graduate studies and dangerous and alan baker director of the institute for contemporary affairs at the jerusalem center for public affairs a very warm welcome to all of you alan if i could start with you penn says visit it sped up the time line has ness of the embassy moving the u.s. embassy moon from tel aviv to jerusalem to the end of next year why the rush.
you know i think if they've already decided to do this then there's no sense in delaying it as long as it's practically feasible from the point of view of planning zoning building moving to to to do it any further delay would simply reflect on the. indicate an element of lack of credibility. as to the. intentions of the administration nor there is now a sense of inevitability of about this preparations are said to be started in the coming weeks what was the palestinian reaction there. well i mean the trauma unit ration and credibility don't exactly go hand in hand this far as the palestinians are concerned and the wider arab public the moving of the of the embassy to jerusalem regardless the timeline is a an explosive policy as in the middle east in the region it reflects that
the american administration has decided to become a party in this conflict rather than an outside broker no matter how. aligned with one one side of the conflict but now it's actually a partner in this conflict colluding with the occupier at the expense of the rights of the occupied. the palestinians so there was no point in meeting vice president mike pence when he was visiting the region do you think that was the right decision or. absolutely what what would there be to talk about with pence and see who is the ideological backer of this illegal move pence who came to israel to you know speak to his base of fanatics an evangelical minister who do not see the palestinian people do not respect their rights do not understand the sensitivities and don't care actually about those sensitivities meeting with tense would have
been you know just nonsensical from a palestinian perspective and it wasn't just the officials who refused to meet with parents all church leaders have refused to meet with parents the guardian of the keys of the church of the holy step occurred has refused to meet with friends as did other christian leaders and church leaders across the middle east where he visited so while i think everybody understands that is not really interested in understanding the palestinian perspective or the wider arab perspective it should have been very clear at least to the staff around him if he has you know professional career staff around him that he is neither welcome nor are his positions and whatever agenda he seems to be talking about in so far as protecting minorities and speaking for christians in the middle east it's it's it has no credibility it has no traction and certainly nobody really buys it here because the
it up of the policies of the this administration run counter the interests of palestinian christians in the middle east at large ok the palestinian view then is that the u.s. is now a policy in this conflict rather than a broker as north just said you were in davos the world economic forum is that the view those largely taken. within the international community. well yes if one believes the international community is not just the united states and israel i think that is the consensus but i would add that this partisanship this taking sides goes back long before the trumpets ministration it goes back all the way to every administration actually after the kennedy administration when u.s. presidents have cast their vetoes in united nations resolutions demanding the contamination of settlements and settlements to me are even maybe more important to some degree than the jerusalem decision per se and they have been going on those expansions that lang grab has been going on unabated for the last decades and no
u.s. president has stopped that and that's the fat complete and what trump is doing now i think is just you know making a big show out of it in a way but the deterioration of what the so-called peace process process is has been going on for a long time so i don't think it's as revolutionary in that sense and just to commit cumulation of ministrations past ok would you agree with that broadly speaking this is the u.s. just laying its cards out on the table this position has always been this. i find it quite curious both what new says and what mark said. is she's talking in the name of the christians in this area. she has. missed now also lots of very pertinent facts with respect to the way the palestinians treat the christians but apart from that. the trump announcement and the penn's announcement basically say that this has got nothing to do with the
negotiation on the issue of the permanent status of the territories the issue of jerusalem and the issue of borders so if the palestinians would have had any sense they would have come in and welcomed a declaration and said well we welcome the fact that this is not affecting the negotiation of the peace process instead of that they decided to to. create panic and hysteria and try and stir up. leaders and governments and quite frankly that they haven't been very successful allen funt has sometimes just for an iron man i saw something about snored what was it i was going to ask you myself how can this have how can the recognition of jerusalem as israel's capital have nothing to do with its permanent status when all parties agree that it should be part of a final settlement deal. look that that when trump made his announcement he said
this is without prejudice this is a. question of the relationship between the united states and israel look to find something that's existed for seventy years. that is being recognized by everybody but it hasn't been firmly recognized this is between the united states and israel it's got nothing to do with the actual. negotiating process which has to go on now the palestinians are obligated to deal with this issue by negotiation in the arsenal cause as all these rail is by turning off. by refusing to continue or to think about getting back to any negotiating mode and by rejecting the the united states they're basically harming their own position because the united states of. eager to come back into the negotiating mode and
assist the parties in in negotiating a final status so it's really quite puzzling this position but in any event i don't want that is we'll let you know only in the position that if it's puzzling let's let nor explain the reasoning behind it well i mean it is puzzling if if you have a colonial mindset if you think like netanyahu and the right wing in israel and you consider that the only way to talk to palestinians is if they endorse your point of view about the conflict and if they deny that they have rights to this land then they have roots in history so i might understand the. surprise or confusion of your guest but having said that the issue of jerusalem is not an issue between the united states and israel it's an issue pertaining to the heart of international law and the international order it is not the prerogative of the united states to undertake this is for. very responsible step and by the way the palestinians took
a very calm and responsible position the international community as a whole was extremely concerned because what the trumpet ministration said and i agree with your guest in davos that successive american administration have been extremely biased but none were so flagrant in their by and none were so hostile to the international order and the institutions of multilateral cooperation as we've seen with the trump administration so the world is rightly concerned that this administration wants to undermine those multilateral institutions to undermine their standing and from an international perspective really a position confronting the trumpet ministrations declaration on jerusalem is a must in order to maintain any credibility of the system you cannot ask countries around the world to respect international law to abide by un resolutions including security council resolutions and then turn around and say well you know that
doesn't apply to the u.s. and israel they can do whatever they want they can violate international law they can accept reality is brought about by belligerence and aggression they can accept the illegal addicks ation of jerusalem by israel because they can get away with it that that's not the way it works either you protect the system or you don't the palestinian position is in line with the international with international law and that's why it's in line with the overwhelming majority of countries around the world israel and the united states along with micronesia and whatever other. sub states of the united states don't agree that's fine they stand on the wrong side of international law and the palestinians don't plan to join them with that and undermine their own rights less than ian's are ready to negotiate they're ready to do to have a credible political track that is based on international law but they're certainly not ready to put themselves in a boxing. where they can be bullied into submission which is what we've seen being
attempted by the trumpet administration and from what we've heard as far as this big ultimate suppose a deal that trump and his team is thinking about there is nothing in it that even resembles an acceptable solution that respects the minimum required of palestinian rights ok abbas has been in europe during pence's visit did he win the support from europe that he was seeking in light of the us supporting the israeli position on jerusalem i think there is some support in europe and sympathy for the palestinians but unfortunately or fortunately for the israelis this is the us is to some degree the only game in town more so it seems he's trying to leverage european support to counter that but i doubt that it will be successful and bear in mind just going back it was said i agree but i would say that the forty some us single vetoes in the security council since nine hundred seventy are testament to
the fact that international law has been undermined and these were fourteen to one vetoes even president obama vetoed in two thousand and eleven if you remember resolution on settlements condemning settlements so successive administrations have undermined the rule of law and yes i agree that's a very dangerous situation because ultimately if we look at the whole geopolitical situation it will lead to more tension in the region and possibly even towards so i think we should also look at the whole geo political scene to understand why this is such a dangerous issue ok. the palace is upset that they are open to an international process when you look at the peace process with the u.s. in volte it's been stated by the palestinians that they cannot deal with the u.s. as an honest broker is that something israel could get behind as a way to moving the so-called peace process forward. absolutely not. look the palestinians are committed in the oslo accords to negotiate with israel
not to negotiate with the us not to negotiate with the french and the belgians or anybody else there goes your actions have to take place with israel it takes two to tango it takes two to determine borders it takes two to agree upon the status of jerusalem and the status of the thirty's and all these issues are on the negotiating table now we know i've heard a lot of talk of international law i don't know whether. the two other people who are being interviewed are international lawyers i am. they met him at the united states has got the sovereign prerogative to determine whatever they want to determine respect to the the capital of a country and where they want to place their embassy but allen is not going to leave it right then leave it such an honest broker when it's trying to mediate between the two styles and no it doesn't. as i said at the beginning the united states has said that this is got nothing to do with the negotiation of the final
status of jerusalem they have the prerogative to recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel in the same way that they can recognize any other capital of any other country but this is without prejudice to the negotiations why would the palestinians choose to take umbrage and to get into a huge panic when they could've come along and said ok we're very happy with the fact that this is not going to influence the negotiations let's go ahead in the go shit. no you were saying that it doesn't leave the u.s. as an honest broker just looking at the states as the final say jerusalem do you still see it as a possibility then that the u.s. can can see east jerusalem as a future capital capsule of a palestinian state well a let me just address a few points the u.s. has a sovereign for all get the to carry out its its policies but it does not have a free rein a carte blanche to violate a u.n.
security council resolutions of which it is a member and there are u.n. security council resolutions that say that the annexation of jerusalem is illegal and that no country should move its embassy to jerusalem so let's take that out of the equation and talk about reality because i seem to hear a lot of arguments that are not really based in reality under this administration and given the fact that trump is surrounded by a group of right wing fanatics that are openly hostile to palestinian rights that endorse israeli settlements which are illegal in a war crime under the rome statute and which basically a racist to palestinians by omission as we heard from pence yesterday in the knesset this administration lacks the credibility lacks the understanding and the commitment to a two state solution to be to play a role as a credible broker maybe it can be part of a more a broader. international setting court that plus plus five plus to whatever
equation that can arise from consultations on a multilateral level but certainly that that the cards are all in the u.s. is hands is no longer in the offing and i think in in a way that that is liberating and conducive to peace the palestinians by the way unilaterally. recognized israel. at the signing of the all slow accord israel never reciprocated that recognition the borders and the territory occupied by israel has been defined by international law it's not up to israel to define it negotiations are supposed to be about how to fine tune the details and how to implement an end to the israeli occupation but nobody ever. gave israel the right to have a veto power over whether palestinians can exercise their right to self-determination and freedom despite all perhaps the misunderstandings of a very faulty process to begin with these are tenants of the law and understanding
that the palestinian leadership and people have and they're not going to change at this point the israeli government the current coalition in power in israel does not have a single party that actually has the two state solution as part of its platform that includes the likud had by that then you know so until israel is actually ready to accept the concept of having two states in this piece of land until they're ready to have a prime minister that does not involve to prevent the establishment of an independent palestinian state i'm not exactly sure who the palestinians are supposed to sit with let's you know like a little bit short a time to me on the side ultimately killed a little bit on the u.s. does say the two state solution is still on the table if both sides want it the question is do they say. well i don't know how sincere that statement is i mean you're. first of all i personally don't think that stoops to state solution is
viable at this stage in fact because of the settlements in the hole and i don't think that's a say the trouble mr ation is necessary sincere i think that's part of the problem we know that parents and others do embrace this very extreme zionist christian ideology which doesn't believe in anything separate today and some area and present promise netanyahu has said the same often enough so the question is is rampant crack giving a carte blanche to israel to go ahead and it does seem that way to many despite some of the kind of you know lip service he gives to a two state solution or saying that the borders have not been negotiated yet ok i think there's a lot of trust and also on. the helicopter i'm going to jump to alan for a last minute of the show tell us is israel interested in a two state solution. israel is interested in negotiating the permanent status that's what the parties have agreed to. the two state solution whether the
permanent status would be two states three states four states or one state or a condominium or federation or confederation this has to be the outcome of negotiation and by spouting in every other sentence two state solution two state solution that doesn't necessarily stumble ish the fact that this will ultimately be agreed between the parties and so the only way to settle this is to get back to the negotiating table now if hamas were to allow the palestinian authority to get back to the negotiating table then it might be feasible but at the moment abu mazin isn't in the situation that he can agree tomorrow morning ok back to negotiations so everything everything that noor is saying. in addition to a lot of ok i'm packing we are now safe and i'm going to have this is what you're telling me how a lot of time i don't know it doesn't have to apply so we'll have to cut the discussion off that of course we could go on much longer i do wish we did have longer we will be revisiting the subject again and many thanks to all our guests
nora day and. and thank you to very much for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website this al-jazeera dot com for further discussion to go to our facebook page facebook dot com for slash a.j. inside story it was a done conversation on twitter handle is a.j. inside story from me and the whole team here life and.
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