tv Rokhaya Diallo Al Jazeera April 23, 2018 5:32pm-6:01pm +03
you know arguably a very democratic chaotic way and get a result that they could hardly scarcely a very cool the only surviving suspect of the paris attacks in twenty fifteen has been sentenced to twenty years in prison twenty eight year old was convicted of attempted murder during the shoot out in belgium that led to his arrest. the death toll after an airstrike on a wedding party by saudi led forces in yemen has risen to at least twenty it happened in the western province of more than a dozen others were injured two more palestinians have died from wounds by israeli gunfire and protest on the gaza border at least thirty five palestinians have been killed in the four weeks of demonstrations against the israeli blockade police in malaysia have released sketches of two suspects in the targeted killing of a palestinian engineering lecturer bash was repeatedly shot on saturday his family
say by israeli mossad agents israel says al bash was working on improving the accuracy of rockets fired from gaza but they deny causing his death. the foreign ministers of russia and china have pledged to block any attempts to sabotage the iran nuclear deal u.s. president donald trump film a twelve to decide whether to keep the twenty fifteen agreement has previously called it one of the america's worst ever deals the french president says he plans to appeal to trump during his white house visit on monday but those are the headlines the news continues here on al-jazeera after talk to us is there such a daughter. on counting the cost of trade war a real war and rising debt find out why the i.m.f. and the world bank a warning of risks to the global economy what saudi arabia is ideal world price and the castro year ends in cuba but an economic blockade remains counting the cost on al-jazeera. you can.
see. ricardo diallo is a french activist feminist filmmaker and writer a long time anti racism campaigner she has found herself at the center of a debate about racism and free speech in france last year she was forced to step down from the government's digital council an incident that only served to reinforce hope belief that france has a problem with state sponsored racism today on talk to al-jazeera we discuss the social issues she's fighting to push toward france's agenda and whether she's hopeful the country can bring its people together. for cardiology thank you for talking to al-jazeera now first i want to start off with the fact that you were one of thirty people appointed to this french digital council it is a committee that advises the government on digital affairs but you are asked to
step down why. the government was asked by people who did. i agree with my views to evict me from from the council. and i was not even asked by the government to step up the government issued a statement to say that he asked the head of the deterrence here to make me go away from it the fact that i was tackling stage racism state sponsored racism and i was supporting muslim women who wanted to wear the hijab if they wanted to and many it was basically was that those views the way i phrased my views on the receiving of an image is an inference inference. so i want to talk to you about that because as you say one of the main complaints that people had against those who actually also used to be force of this council was the fact that you talked about state
racism what is state races and say you are you saying that the french stated institutions all races i'm saying that the french institutions produce racism in france if you are perceived as an arab or as a black person you are twenty times more likely to be checked if you are a man than any any other category of the populations meaning that the police overcontrolling a category of the population and the police is an institution of a different from rick and you have several examples of institutions being having different ways of tweeting treat treating some people or because of their race i can also mention the fact that in france was to have overseas territories that used to be colonies and now our friendship back in those departments you can use certain account of the sites and you can spread them over those territories which
is bound in the french mainland so to me given the fact that those. islands and territories are most people created by people of color it's mean that you have a difference of treatment between a need of a friend people who live in the mainland who are mostly white and french people who live in those territories. just to pick up the point about the police i mean it could be that there are certain people within the police force who are racist perhaps are racist elements in the police force but does that necessarily mean that the state is supporting them i mean are you saying that the state is actively promoting and supporting racism the fact is that the supreme court in france sentenced to stage four. for racial profiling. to defend itself the state say that that those profiling that were focused mainly on black blacks and arabs were just defied so the state doesn't even deny the fact that the
police is overcontrolling black people and arab people or mostly men so to me that means that there is nothing that is done to prevent that and france has been also sentence several times by the european court of human rights because of that and many institutions after i called out do you. know rights watch international saying that france isn't doing anything to protect. its citizens of color from police brutality and from pretties for fighting so what about the french people i mean to make a difference between institutionalized state racism and the french public are the french public places because i'm part of the french public as a friend first and so when i say that there is reason from different institution i'm not saying that all the french people are this is i just i'm just saying that the state should implement measures to stop that how about you in your personal
experience because you are the daughter of african parents you are woman you are muslim but you often in mainstream media you often contribute to television to radio you are a fringe personality what is your experience been i mean have you managed to navigate the system in france how the. dunnit i feel like i'm an exception because if she was different she you don't see that many faces looking like mine and today i really consider that i have a privilege and i try to use that privilege to tackle racism because i know that many of my fil a french citizen one that's white doesn't have i'm not as mickey as i am and they don't have the means to be vocal and to make public statements the kind of statement that they use to make public and i have a feeling that being a black woman and the black muslim woman i don't have the right to say as much as.
as other people who are there because well because when whenever i start to speak about racism in the way i do i have much backlash so let's talk a bit now about france's new president a man womack or do you think in some way things might change because from the outside at least it seems as if he might have a more inclusive vision of france. i think that he does have a more inclusive vision of france because he belongs to a different generation compared to the former president so the way he sees friends is very different from the people from the former generations because he's used to see friends with diverse face but the other thing is that he was part of the prince the previous government so what is implementing now is not that different from what was started before as he was the minister of finance. the other thing is that we
used to be under a state of emergency for two years from two thousand and fifteen and two thousand and seventeen and. pushed a new load to replace the state of emergency but to me it was just. there is asian of the state of emergency because the state of emergency elos. the police to have powers that it doesn't have out of that state of emergency and it's really reduces the power of the judges to me that doesn't work it just create the feeling among a lot of deliberation that they don't belong so if the state of emergency perhaps isn't the signal that you would have liked to have seen if it wasn't cancelled could you not say they're going back to man or mark or the whether you agree then no he has instituted the sort of change that you've actually been talking about in some ways because you have the national assembly which now has made up of mental
health women people from civil society people from diverse backgrounds people very much like yourself is not known changes that move in the right direction it's a very very good move so there are thirty nine percent of women. as well as a rally which is not how often but quite much as. it was before all you have many. who are people have. who are from who are mentioned in the former engineer ation so that's a very average age as drop down and it's a very very good move but if you want your government to move in that as good as it was before the only doubt only two people of color in the government one is the minister of course and the other one was the one who asked me to resign from the. and he's not he's not the most important member of the government that would have been very important to have someone holding a very important. but still it's a it's
a new generation who is who has the power and that's something i can definitely be happy about so let's move on to that very very french concept of secularism it's called life in france and to is it's so it's a way of life in a way for the french state it's all about trying to make sure that religion has no influence in government and schools and institutions in hospitals france has very strict secular laws what do you think about. i think it's a very very good principle that say that there is a separation between religion and state and that different republican public is supporting the freedom of religion and freedom of conciousness meaning that you can believe on the believe you will be supported in your freedom by the government so that that's a very very good thing. in the paper so one of france's best known secular laws
forbids people to wear any visible very visible religious symbols or such as keep this fails crosses in state institutions so they can't wear them in schools they can't wear them in hospitals what do you think about that i know you've been quite vocal on this point yes the thing is to me that will ease an exemption to the principle of place to do it so the law of two thousand and four by. the religious signs in schools for students the principle of this says that if you are public servant you don't you cannot show in the end display in the religious symbol which makes sense but if you are a user of a public service you're not supposed to be neutral so it was a case for all the public services until two thousand and four which made which made an exception with school so now as a user of school you have to be neutral as if you were if you were a public servant when i was not the principal i place it in the more it's so low
but we had to go to a new low to be added to the law that started the principal of a city in one thousand or five because just that law didn't illo that you know to me school is a place where you can learn about diversity and it's important that the teacher. show neutrality display neutrality but the students don't have to be to be bound by such measures because they're not actually done they're not in contract with the state i mean the french state would say that all of those children should be seen as equal they should be nothing visible the might mock one child out from another so do you think that in principle is a good idea or not it is beautiful but the reality is quite different and it positions the head of schools in a very very strange. place because they have to guess the religion
of searching students because if a black student wears a headscarf is it religious is its cultural they have been controversy. because of some students who were there his job out of school they put it out when they go to school but they have long. skirts and some head of schools and of high schools especially said that it was a religious skirt so you would interpret discouraged as being religious because you know that the student is muslim but if another one is not muslim wear the same skirt is not a problem anymore and to me that doesn't francies is just a way for the students to learn to live through to live together. the whole conversation in fronts around the veil has also become very much. linked to women's
rights you hear government ministers people in the public often talk about the violence say that it is an erosion of women's rights and therefore facts is reason to balance in school what do you think about that and i think that the first ride that's a woman have is to do whatever she wants to do with her body so if you want to cover your body you should be free to do so and she don't want to cover to cover your body you shouldn't be forced to do so i knew should be supported in having the right of removing it's you know the head scarf or whatever covers it. it's really it's a very posh revising way of seeing women saying that ok we have a way. we see freedom means being dressed in that way and we would have to muslim women to understand that freedom is uncovering and we will even force you to uncover to make you understand that all feminism is right that it's very
ethnocentric and very patronising. feminism to me because we are. you said that i was muslim i don't cover myself but i don't want everybody to look like me i can totally understand that some women in my family would like to cover we are belonging to the same time media we are still missing and i don't want to. criticize them because they are they have their own we are as women all right so let's talk about feminism now because you have written extensively and you talk a lot about women's rights you campaign a lot for women's rights we have seen recently a huge global movement against sexual harassment the women's movement the need to campaign on social media what have you thought about is that progress yes to me it's a major progress it's even according to. turning point. because women used to try to say and to be vocal about the harassment that they are exposed to every day
the fact that they have. they are surrounded by. men who think that they can. they can. access to their body in the way they want they can pressure them to use the way the fact that there are women to gain some favors. and it was not something that was very public it was something that women used to speak about together in a behind closed door but it was not in the door sorry but it was not public in front there was a letter written i'm sure you're familiar with a. newspaper one of the main newspapers here in france it was signed by a hundred prominent french women including the movie actress catherine deneuve and this letter basically said to me to campaign at this this women's movement against sexual harassment was in a way puritanical and men should be allowed to make sexual sexual advances on
women why not for them they said women on victims we are strong is that not another brand of feminism i'm not sure about the fact that even claim feminism because that tax was pertaining the right for the men to bugger women i don't know have you come how you can say that and at the same time say that you defend women so i remember that the text mentioned men who molested women in the in the in the in the ways it's written in very commonly in friends who are men they're using the fact that they can have proximity with women to just with their body close to them and they said that to some women it was not even an event. the first thing is that i don't. getting the in the french material so i don't think that she knows what she speaks about and the other thing is that how can you say that it's not an event
having a mind that you've never seen in your life putting his body on you and not being not being able to scream because you're afraid because there are too many people because you shocked you in shock so to me it's a very conservative backlash and it would even if you have a look on the list of the women you will see that they are mostly from or another generation i've just got a few more things to ask you in there about some of the things that you've spoken about in the past you wrote in the huffington post in twenty fifteen it was an article about immigration exotic about refugees it was the height of the refugee crisis in europe and you said i'm ashamed to live on a continent where the immigration policy consists of building walls where money spent on barricades instead of investing in human destiny that was back in twenty fifteen are you still ashamed to live in europe and why i am because. i have seen what happened in thailand i have seen. immigrants living in the streets even
in my neighborhood in paris police officers coming destroying terence stopping preventing n.g.o.s from giving water to young people. it's it's unacceptable it's unacceptable to know that the e.u. is spending that much more money on barricades. on supporting people you know from other countries. just to make a living i have seen a woman delivering her baby in the in the streets in paris a young woman from africa france has never been. well coming as germany when i compare france or germany i can see that there is a problem because we don't we have never consider. opening the borders to people from syria or from countries out there are at war and where people really need to get asylum from you talked about germany germany sweden there are countries
that of done a lot to help refugees so in a sense when you say you're ashamed to live on this continent i mean those are european countries i think that there are several different policies in europe and some countries are much more welcoming and friends even if france has been for a long time a country of immigration i want to ask you one one last thing about something that you have said before i mean it's quite complex there was this this outcry here in paris the afro feminists collective it's an organization that had a festival in paris they organized some workshops some of them were prohibited to north african women others were open and there was a big outcry at the time because it was seen that white french people were being banned from these workshops i read the you said the north african women asian women were also not so loud. but whoever was most into loud isn't it still some form of
segregation you know because segregation is something that comes from the state and that really instore account of the hierarchy so saying that there are people who have moved more value that other people those workshops where men for black women just to meet and to speak about their issues for a couple of harris that doesn't threaten anything regarding the low it's just a space where black women can speak about the issues that can be discrimination that they are facing of a specific discrimination that they're fifteen as black women you have some other activities that would be open to all women of color because as a woman of color you don't experience the same kind of racism as men of color and as white people or definitely so it's led to me is not a threat and i was kind of surprised by the attention that's more offensive or gained because in paris for example there is
a place that is called little club which is a very wealthy place where rich men can. gather and we together and it's not a load for women to go there so if me as a woman i want to use their pool i wouldn't be i would be banned but there is a difference between excluding people and prohibiting them from going to an organization a club or a meeting and holding a meeting in assuming that people might come along i mean there is a difference between saying you are not welcome. in the same way that the automobile club that you mention. it's obviously something i imagine that you don't admire the fact that women are excluded the fact that they reserve band on a certain type of person or gender whatever it might be is something that you would normally support so why is it different in this case because it's made that made. people who don't have many spaces to express themselves to have for once one space
to express themselves without being interrupted without having people doubt team of the time that there are exposed to discriminations to choose mockeries even if even sometimes it's something like this time it's just having a couple of hours to speak about you know how it how it is to be a black woman in france and it's something that you can do with someone who is not a black woman but is not a project of for the for the french society something that they were they would like to be in store for ever. i understand that but why ban the why prohibit people from coming you can have that meeting there's no reason for a group of african women not to meet together and talk i mean most people probably wouldn't want to go to that meeting unless they had an interest to go to that meeting so why say to some people who aren't african you want women you are not welcome if you are
a woman you have been exposed to sexual harassment even to rapes you know that the conversation between women who have been explored exposed to sexual assault we've not been the same if there is a man a man in the room is not excluding the man is a lowing the women to express themself themselves freely because there are some topics that you cannot speak comfortably about if there are some people who are not affected by the issue. you your brain seeing ok suggest finding work. looking for it i mean how do you feel about the state of france because there's a lot of concern i'm hearing a lot of concern what about the future is there any hope yes i really think that there is hope if i had i was not hopeful i wouldn't be an activist and i wouldn't try to work on those issues so i'm sure that there is much hope there is a new generation that is coming who are starting to be vocal too to raise
awareness on issues that didn't used to be mainstream before so the fact that we are speaking this who have us here about friends and race me as a black human being in the lakes where back in those issues even if it's not easy every day to me it's a sign of change and i'm really hopeful about the future. all right thank you very much i still consider as it was a pleasure. as it approaches its first year how has the gulf crisis affected the states of the gulf cooperation council are there any indications of resolution. what is the nature of the new regional and international alliances amid the raging conflict in the middle east. will increasing social unrest lead to
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