tv Inside Story 2018 Ep 242 Al Jazeera August 31, 2018 3:32am-4:01am +03
people arriving from venezuela is being blamed have been more far right rallies in the eastern german city of candidates following violent confrontations there earlier this week thousands of people have been protesting against foreigners and the government's immigration policies and thousands of people have been paying their respects to soul singer aretha franklin and a hometown detroit fans are attending a tribute concert it's one of their last chances to say goodbye before a private funeral on friday a casket has been taken to the new bethel baptist church which is where she worshipped all her life the news continues here on out is there after inside story thanks.
muslims u.s. politicians have called for. the chinese officials responsible. and indoctrination in secret camps so the basic religious. of an entire people and this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program. the international day of the victims of enforced disappearances is commemorated by the united nations on thursday to remember the tens of thousands of people maybe hundreds of thousands of doctors by police or
government agents in various countries around the world today's inside stories focusing on china and the western region of ching chong wei united nations who were once experts say more than a million ethnic or being held in what resembles a massive internment camp shrouded in secrecy a sort of no right on china denies such camps exist but says criminals involved in minor offenses are sent to what it calls vocational education and employment training centers to help with their reintegration into society most were girls practice islam and speak a turkish language that's completely different from mandarin chinese ten million of them live mostly in the ching jungle region of western china ethnic tensions have risen over the years since nine hundred forty nine after the communist government encouraged the mass migration of han chinese workers share ethnic and cultural
similarities with their neighbors in kyrgyzstan tajikistan. and mongolia china says its crackdown inching jan is to protect peace and prevent what it calls terrorism there have been ethnic bias in recent years in and we're going to separatist have been blamed for several attacks including one in beijing's challenge where into a thousand and thirteen. let's introduce our panel of experts in hong kong andrew young an international and into abandoned china strategist in nottingham in the u.k. undress fulda a lecturer at the university of nottingham and in cantelupe germany by sky edgy and sans an expert on china's may not a policy welcome to all this andrew what is happening in the world areas the un
says this is a forced a town by the government to. change the very identity of the we're good people. i think i'm a the problem at the moment is china's fear of separatism now let's face it a separate doesn't is a no no for any country including democratic advance countries like spain. think about you know sir catalonia but i think in china it's even more. and it gives more in force more and saya t. because it is a large area and of course it's not just the scene jank the people which is now connected with the. eastern turkey stand terrorist movement elsewhere but also it would drive a separate there's a movement in tibet. and also in even in taiwan
let alone hong kong and macau so i think that. china's beijing's apps absolutely anxious to control the situation what has caused the problems even look at the. complexity of all the ethnic groups in china talers a multi-ethnic country consisting of the six ethnic groups of course the hang chinese accounts for more than ninety five percent of the total population but there are you know sort of over five body ethnic groups and only the. the. first and the tibetans are causing problems the rest are living in ok great harmony with the hang chinese but that now the reason is because in recent years as you highlighted earlier there was a mass migration of the hang chinese into seeing jang and then disenchant people
feel that they're being overwhelmed and also they feel that those erosion of their culture and access to jobs and soar so forth so the kind of measures a president measures is can be counterproductive. ok. does the feel of extremism justify putting one million people is a sort of deterrent detention forcing them to change the system of beliefs well first of all i would like to thank you. for bringing to your audiences attention the fact that hundreds of thousands of weekers are indeed held in political reality cation camps in their homeland seemed young and i for greed to come to you know on to this show because i believe that facing a situation like that the community of china scholars cannot remain silent but to
answer your question directly i don't think that any of these measures are justifiable the kind of response we've just heard from andrew is indefensible because of course you know separatist movements exist in various countries but then never it existence of dissent never justifies such draconian measures. because what we're seeing. in mainland china is basically implementation of a highly racist policy aimed squarely at an ethnic group where anyone regardless of his or her political or religious views can be swept up in these and turman camps and that has huge problem it's something that we need to talk about because it's unacceptable. adrian are we talking here about a push by the chinese government to contain the whys of what it is quiet as extremism or
a planned attempt by the government to change the identity of an entire people well from the chinese perspective it is probably both both are being conflated it's probably chinese they hate them any sense of people being different and especially a sense of people being religious has always been seen by suspicion. there we go to an ethnic group that have had a different story and linguistic and cultural identity of a long time as a matter of fact very few of them are seriously interested in some kind of independence but the problem is that the china has long had a sense of touch with the distance to these people. therefore or for the chinese state in many ways reducing cultural difference or linguistic big difference in especially reducing or suppressing religious identity is attributed to counter-terrorism and that's in many ways but we're seeing an india.
andrew young the good chinese government has said over the past few months they basically are trying to improve the living standards of the people in the winter area but here's a problem with that with this particular approach i mean how can you defend and some sort of big brother society in wooden times and say that people need to go to reeducation centers to be sort of indoctrinated i mean who accept such a policy in these days i think there is no doubt that in the socorro in the problems in china in such a scene sharing and also tibetan some of the more remote problems that the. economic development has been phenomenal i mean that perch e.d.p. per capita. the life expectancy the literacy rates are all measures that are improving but then on the other hand there is a cultural and ethnic religious divide between the hang chinese as well as
the. the native. groups particularly in cinching and tibet for example. they because they're these are rather remote areas in the past and so they they they tend to regard their culture. from the from the other. groups in and. major ethnic groups like to hang chinese in china for a long time but nevertheless it's not as if they were completely segregated if you look at history back in the even the. the main dynasty or the chain dynasty in the dating back several hundred years ago there were or already about thirty percent of the hanged chinese. hank group in the province but then the recent years the problems of of ethnic conflict seem to have flare up because the division between the access to the jobs markets
has become much more prudent put downs and there was even a much much larger number of hang chinese settling in. the room she and others and the other problem is of course our sultan tibet which is the area we just associate it with the eastern turkey stan movement and the and that is linked together with other you know sort of terrorist groups elsewhere. and of course they there are back in the in recent years quite a number of terrorist activities. cost china as china grows in international gravitas is subject to to all these perceived threats on that from the west or right wing ideology so that that's why there was a feedback there of repressive measures so andrea so are we talking here about just to to to further explain the whole issue to our or us are we talking about ethnic
discrimination religious persecution or is there is more to this particular story about the chinese government and the were good. sure i mean i think when we just listen to andrew it's quite clear that we shouldn't be hoodwinked by these kind of phony arguments about development status. etc the real issue here is that the chinese coast party is using extra traditional extrajudicial measures to imprison. chinese citizens because week or so of course chinese citizens against it's own loss so for example when you read the legal commentary about the situation there actually no rules and regulations that justify these actions. party is of course not bound by the rule of law it uses the rule by law to govern china but there is no constitutional basis or no law that
chinese law that allows the indefinite. internment of people now of course there is now a law that exists which is the counterterrorism war. which allows for what's called educational placement and that could indeed be indefinite but anyone who is then placed under such education placement would have to be indicted first on terrorist charges this. go through a legal process of imprisonment and then after being released from prison then discard you know take place but clearly one hundred thousand calls to a million of we who are ending up in this in in in these camps they are not terrorists they're probably not even close to terrorist sympathizers so to to
justify that by any measure is highly problematic adrian activists have been saying that for example in two thousand and seventeen one fifth of all the arrests in china have been made in the chin junk which it could this be an indication that the government has completely failed to find a political way out of the problem and the snow is moving one notch further to worse harsh measures. the government if we look at this historically has tried several approaches in the one nine hundred ninety s. and early two thousand sui see a developmental best approach for the great western development initiative with the belief that large injections of funding from the top down would make a profound change in the region the cost it has cost many problematic side of it such as an influx of concept less than a strategy was to bring in attention to a strong mental formally realty bet and he recruited. tens of thousands close to one hundred thousand new police building thousands of new police stations
installing sophisticated surveillance technology facial recognition cameras now the interesting thing is this real education drive represents an entirely new dimension something that we have not seen in other parts of china on this scale in recent history not into tibet so this it is the next level and i believe we can only speculate in some ways what the actual reasons are but i believe that the chinese government feels you can't just put a police man next to every reader they're looking for lock onto a solution what is the long term solution it is as governments documents call it and i repeat this it is as government documents call it seeking a heart changed so the long term change is to really change and then tie up people . resulting however in the criminalization of the entire belief system ok mr
i mean in theory change young is considered under thomas region with a self-appointed local government but you know everyone knows that the guy who calls the final shots is chan war the man who has been in tibet known for his harsh measures an out and fist policy. many are concerned that the man is trying to completely clamp down on dissent and opposition in the region well i think this is a we should circle. the more beijing is anxious about the separatist movements and the perpetration of terrorist acts and the press perceived foreign interference in trying to foment their fragmentation of china the more beijing tightens the grip but that that is counterproductive as i was saying on the one hand of course the economic benefits and infrastructural
links with the rest of the provinces would help the that these remote regions of the world but on the other hand you're talking about us as you're talking about. to announce their ethnic. sorry to interrupt you here talking about the change and region as a poor area it has massive natural resources potential it's a rich region on its own the problem is not this the problem is purely about persecution here here. as i was saying that the these repressive measures are counterproductive and there is a wish a circle the more beijing imposes these measures on. a sector sector of the of the young people the more they're likely to feel strange and and reap. and reactive against the beijing government so i think that there's.
but on the other hand there is no way that the beijing would just let go because this is in the existential slept the whole whole country and in fact no country would allow separately we're talking about eleven million people out of a national saying more than thirty a billion people i mean why would this be considered as an existential threat this this should be the core of democracy or respecting the rights or the minority and under well i mean you would look at the area of scene jan it is huge i mean it is one of the largest problems as in china. and so you know even in terms of numbers that may be relatively small percentage but on the other hand there is a and impact and effect what about tibet and he backed also you look at a number of tibet and people the number is not that large but over there on the other hand the problems that can he ok and not only that in terms of size but in terms of as you mentioned earlier resources and the connectivity of china with
a burn role for the rest of the world let's talk a little bit now about the international reaction this is going to be my question to undress i mean there's been a report by the united nations about a few weeks ago now there's this letter by u.s. senator and congressman saying that there needs to be some strong robust reaction particularly imposing sanctions on to individuals companies and anyone who sponsor before the atrocities committed against the were good people do you think that the americans would follow suit and take action. well first of all jessica from china made the suggestion and i think it's a very good suggestion to u.s. policymakers to make good use of the global magnitsky act which allows the american government to. block the property the overseas property of individuals who have engaged in and then make human rights abuses and corruption now i would think
that the straw man. or very likely qualifies for being a subject to the global magnitsky act and this is something that could be considered more widely because i think for the international community whether it's the united states the european union or any other country. to just turn a blind eye to the situation in is not an option if any one of your viewers are rightly are concerned for example about the racist immigration policies of the trumpet mr ation where families are being ripped apart bear in mind that what's happening in sin young is far worse that the scope of the problem is far bigger and that much much more families are being ripped apart as we speak and many of the children of the imprisoned weekers are actually now growing up in chains often it is now i think that is totally and utterly unacceptable we have an obligation to
speak out about these kind of things and i think a very practical step beyond government is that. people around the world should educate themselves about what is happening in by following the news for example dialogue from the asia research center china dialogue from university of berkeley or china file from the asia society which have been doing x. excellent work on on. bringing information up to date information about the situation on the ground ageing and in a country like china which has historically been thin skinned when it comes to international criticism do you think that if we build up in the man term if there's been a man term in the of the u.s. and e.u. the u.s. that could pay off or ultimately end up being counter productive now on the one hand there is the possibility that the chinese position will be heartened by being challenged in an international way however we also need to consider that the
chinese are at a time where they're really trying to can build the rest of the world their program their development and in a sense of their. understanding of the world order. for the chinese i think are inherently interested in how they're being see specially in a context knocked about the road initiative now young of course is the so-called core hub up that mountain road initiative nearly all transport that goes on land routes passes oceans young a lot of the strategic economic development is happening there i believe if this is being race internationally in a systematic way what's happening in tunisia i believe this is actually very necessary and if it turns out to hardening the chinese position i still believe there is a risk that should be taken when mr under we're talking about. of the end of the day we're talking about china one of the biggest economies in the world are many
governments are scared to the point of raising this issue with the chinese government is this something that year thing could embolden the chinese government to continue its clamp down on the way guess. well i mean this is not the first time perceive purchased while asians of human rights raised their eyebrows in the west and in fact that china has been taken to task in many forms including the united nations and other. venues but i think that at this particular time again raising this question in a more aggressive way against china could feed into this kind of wish a circle because i think that there is a perception now with a trade war with the united states with the the west raising where as concerns part china there is a perception that the whole world is ganging up against china in more ways than one
economically financially militarily and now ideologically but all the other hand it is right and proper for the west to do to raise these issues but i think there are many other ways as well to engage the chinese government ok especially through programs or think tanks or academic forums and even. the cooperation with various n.g.o.s and so on and i think that there is one problem for these three races but one has got to understand where china is coming from with do we do under is this going to be my last question in less than a minute in this strange world and really old was basically saying where the populists are taking over where the far right governments now are emerging do you think that the minorities will have to wait a long time before they can have their own whites. respected. what certainly i think one of the issues is that the chinese citizens or those who reside within
the people's republic of china and those who are living all over the world they have to pay attention as well and i think. i don't think that the chinese counterparty actually acts in their name the things that happen in sudan probably most chinese people chases now are not aware off if there are aware i think they would take a very critical view of such government actions and i think ultimately it will depend on how traces and view this and andreea spalled are dreams and thank you very much indeed looking forward to seeing you in the near future and thank you again for watching the program you can see inside story again any time by visiting our website dot com for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter and there is a j inside story for me hashem i have on the whole team here bye for now.
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an hour just. september on al-jazeera with the us midterm elections just over two months away will explore the mood of the nation as american fellow great labor day on television and online the street continues to tap into the extraordinary potential of social media to disseminate news sweden the country known as the happiest in the world has been shaken by a recent spike in violence and it's now preparing for a general election people in power continues to examine the use and abuse of power around the world. the main body of the united nations general assembly is to hold its seventy third session we'll bring you all the updates september on al-jazeera. out. there. somebody like.
hello again adrian filling in here in doha the top stories on al-jazeera the u.n. special envoy for syria is warning of what he calls a perfect storm in the province if the government pushes to retake the last rebel stronghold stuff and de mistura is calling for a humanitarian corridor or to free three million people trapped there. there is a perfect storm based on warning counter warning which is gathering around and you too did a lemma which is the true date limit on how to defeat terrorists in need leap and at the same time avoid affecting a huge number of civilians. so widely are aware that efforts in discussions are taking place to avoid.
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