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tv   Inside Story 2018 Ep 247  Al Jazeera  September 4, 2018 8:32pm-9:01pm +03

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fighting officials also say hundreds of refugees and migrants have been released from a detention center in libya because of the fighting american football player collin kapanen has announced his new nike deal with a photo on twitter cap an extended controversy in two thousand and sixteen when he refused to stand for the playing of the national anthem before games company has not paid in the n.f.l. for two years but the controversy has continued and grown the announcement immediately led to calls on social media for a boycott of nike goods cap'n eak is currently suing the n.f.l. . you're upset with all the headlines here on al jazeera more now upside al-jazeera dot com coming up next it's inside story to stay with this.
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are african countries getting into a dextre with china president xi jinping i'm not a high level the king of egypt and promises no strings attached to billions of dollars in new financing but what are the long term financial risks this is inside story. hello there welcome to the program i'm laura kyle china is africa's largest trading partner and he spent billions of dollars in investment and loans with the promise of much more to come from roads and railways to ports the chinese government is backing large scale projects across africa as part of its so-called belt and road
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and negative and the leaders of around fifty african countries have been in beijing for a two day summit china's president xi jinping offered them sixty billion dollars in new financing deals and says the investments come with no political strings attached is also promising to waive the debts of the poorest african countries as our china correspondent adrian brown. well this has been a summit which in many ways was more about symbolism than substance it lasted really less than two days but of course china has committed itself to giving africa another sixty billion dollars that's on top of the sixty billion dollars that was pledged at the last africa china forum three years ago china's media actually doesn't call this you know loans it talks about aid that way it doesn't seem as though china is making a profit out of extending financing to africa but of course you know these are
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loans now president xi jinping said that you know fifteen billion dollars of that sixty billion was going to be free of interest but of course it still means that africa will be paying interest on forty five billion dollars worth of loans now china is again has been very sensitive to criticism that it's carrying out what is known as debt diplomacy china says in fact that you know african countries are not in debt because of the money that china has been lending it's the result of money that has been lent by others and chinese officials on the sidelines of this summit have been pressing home that point again and again i've also been struck by what's been said on social media and there really is quite a bit of anger out there a number of de of messages have now been deleted from way boat that's china's equivalent of twitter you know many people in china actually don't go along with
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president xi jinping international ambitions and what people are saying is you know china is a developing come a country maybe some of that money should have gone back to china this is a dream brown inside story in beijing. ok let's bring in our poll now and joining us from beijing we have done one she's an analyst at the economist intelligence unit at last and her dad is american former minister and member of parliament and from a roby at a concert to an investment advisor rich management very good to have you with us welcome to the program mr had that if i could start with you i was very impressive isn't it to get around fifty heads of african states to be cheering did the leaders all get what they wanted. i think so and i it's very impressive first i mean because a lot of people have been i mean go to those kinds of meets is whether it's in
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africa or in china and africa leaders are interested in china because now it's becoming like a major global player especially with the problems that europe has been having lately or not so the protectionism the rising protectionism in america and a trump so a lot of people a lot of africans look at china and china has been the liver and in this sense since two thousand and in terms of loans in terms of investment in terms of development aid which is becoming like bigger and i think it's very it's fair to say that that the chinese are aware of the fact that they need to be i mean like to change the model of financial help that they're providing for example if you look at the sixty billion dollars that they pledged fed for only twenty billion dollars this credit line but fifteen billion is concessional and interest free ten billion is for the elements and five billion is to help with
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imports and ten billion will be like for the private sector so all of that is very important in the sense that the africans are seen that china is not only interested in making money and also in extracting like resources but they are more interested in improving if you like like exports to china not only like i mean primary kind of exports but also like manufactured exports and that is like would like to talk about developments about sustainability so all of those kinds of things are important and i think the africans also the african leaders are very sensitive to the fact that these kinds of loans and development money comes without political strings comes from western countries so that's the interests in china but also i mean i think that china has a lot of money to spend as well and for it like africa is a. an emergent region with a lot of potential and lot of growth come in come in its way so there is there is
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that interest also from the chinese whether it's the chinese government and also the chinese companies and china is interested in bringing in africa within the kind of perspective of the of the silk road or the invention of the road absolutely that the chinese president put together how interested is china really in developing a different kind of relationship or all these changes that has made the pledging of sixty billion dollars of which forty five billion quintal correspondent is still in the form of knowns that carry with it interest rates and penalties for non repayments so how interested is china really in changing the relationship. well i don't think the direction general direction of the relationship has any real changes but there are some interesting language change because previously china focused more on the poverty reduction and in line with that by this year capacity butin is mention a multiple times where such as actually china is more interested into injecting
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more of the manufacturing capacity and a more even part of the china supply chain over to african countries and this is a positive change i would say and in terms of the loans china is also a bit more conservative in terms of providing concessional loans and a lot more focuses on building up the trade links between the two continent and that's also a positive ok i got that you do agree with this do you see a new era in china africa relations developing here i think there's definitely been a linguistic change i think the paying to for his propaganda chief i think about two weeks ago has stephan it lead change the language around death around the african story but i think you know we cannot be naive at this point in time we've seen countries take on enormous amounts of debt we've seen hugely inflated infrastructure projects many of which which are white elephants before the get go
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and you don't have to look very far whether it's quiet in pakistan whether it's tom whether it's true lanka who gorged on chinese credit and then add to disgorge that bought at hand and we can see the writing on the wall and where this is headed so i think definitely seeing paying is is situationally more aware but i think you know some of these deals that were offered in the sixty billion dollars package had had collateral benefits for china to take some of the debt forgiveness for indian ocean island. which he specified that's all about geopolitical reach these islands have to have have a lot of reach in terms of the sea around them so i think you know what i do find there is a rather brigade of that seems of a very well coached when they all go to china i wish they'd take some notes when
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they went i didn't seize a single leader of that of any african country taking any notes it was quite extraordinary so i think look there is there is a chorus. of people who will clap anything but at the but the bottom line is you know twenty years down the road there are definite changes that have happened countries of borrow too much money the projects they've borrowed these these funds for are not going to pay off in the foreseeable future and really the import the key factor now for the c.d.o. african relationship is how china is going to deal with the debt fallout we can see the dominos are beginning to fall because a classic example prime minister abbey read the writing on the wall dot was standing ten percent g.d.p. rates so really i think we've got to we've got to be aware of what's going on we cannot be naïve china is not santa claus though a lot of our lead to see to believe that and we need to negotiate now with our
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national interest in mind and i think these are the key things i'd like to i'd like to see happen i'm not seeing them happen yet i'm just seeing a big cheer leading brigade great boon dog china shook his hand and they've come back and i'm not sure what we've really got here ok that one just that that to pick up on one of the many points that made that is china a soft benefactor when it comes to these lanes is it going to write them off as perhaps you know sort of santa clause or is it going to play hardball as i said we've seen in sri lanka where the sri lankans couldn't pay back the debt for this ports and china then took over the lease for it well we all know the chinese doesn't. a chinese long doesn't come with a lot of political strength but it does. i mean china has no conditions in fact over fifty percent of china's loans to africa and latin america is backed by commodity things like energy and food and medicine very important for china to have sort of some sort of backup but overall i don't think people should consider china
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as some sort of aid provider. the chinese entrepreneurs go over to african countries build up factories and change the landscape of africa it is out of their self interest and not the fundamental thinking of helping african countries i still think the valve for countries like us and europe probably take really the moral high ground in this issue but what's really has changed in the past decade in africa we have to we have to admit that the chinese is actually taking the lead here not the western countries i must add that the the big criticism of course over these projects is that many of them a simply not needed by many of these countries in africa they may benefit twenty years down the line but they're certainly not benefiting anyone now and when countries can't pay back the loans to pay for them in the first place then they risk losing their sovereignty are you saying that happen some of the projects have
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be like very i mean like what the chinese president's called vanity kind of projects and they are carried out by some african leaders for their kind of political gains like big stadiums or big statues or big or different kinds of grandiose kinds of projects but i think there is an awareness now both among i mean like the chinese president said that but also like among african leaders and there is some sort of convergence now that we you need to invest in it like creation of wealth in creation of employment but also in sustainable kinds of projects and i think that's the kind of law. which change that i'm seeing and i'm seeing awareness on the part of the chinese like ten years before i mean like they didn't care about those kinds of things that sustainability was not on the table but also like the nature of the projects was not on the on the table but now it is on the table and and if you look at the speech of the chinese president you will see that that's
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a very important kind of like they have to be sustainable to have also not to be the to benefit the people and that's that's important so there is probably like i mean like some sort of shift towards like more project that will be konami clee beneficial to the countries themselves rather than to regimes and to president ok barrie what is interesting is that we're hearing this change of language from the chinese side from the chinese president xi jinping but not raining necessarily hearing it from the african leaders side so what responsibility should leave as of africa bad for example why are they not apples conference taking notes while they at least giving the impression of just being a bunch of yes men i think i think the there is there is a very important drive and also very important like need for funding and for investment a lot of the african leaders that they're dying to get those kinds of investment
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projects they're not there to take notes or take any kind of lessons that they're you know order to see if they could fund like the different kinds of initiatives that they have and the take and whether they are regional or national so i think that's the most important thing but i mean the chinese are there for that kind of like if you look for example of the need for five hurricane terms of infrastructure they have been evaluated sometimes at one hundred billion dollars that's not something that will come from the u.s. or come from europe but china is there in order to fund those kinds of projects and i think that's the most important thing for for for those countries one of the things that needs to probably like make everyone worried and the world bank and i. have also have signaled that is it i mean are those countries solvable or will they be able to to bay those kinds of bets what happens if they don't pay those debts and i think the chinese are smart in lincoln some of those that do like commodities and also having access to different kinds of resources within the within the
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continent but i mean it's something that i mean we need to wait and see how much of an economic and political dependence with a lot of the countries that are not solvent in terms of that that will be to china rather than try the countries i mean to western countries like they have historically been ok i can can countries afford to wait and see what sort of debt they're going to be in to china or is it already too late well i think in some cases it's too late and in some cases the dominoes are falling in zambia you got a euro bond prices seventy cents on the dollar if you follow the markets that's telling you that basically zambia's bust its biggest lender is china so we're going to watch this situation down in real time unfold in front of our eyes and there are a number of other situations which are very very similar if i can just return to the previous question in one way i think china very much better on the elites on the leadership of the of the african continent and what we're watching now is
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a very fluid moment i'll just you know i'm sitting in nairobi just look at what's happening over the border in uganda with the situation with president was of a knee and and and and bobby wine this pop star who's very popular and we're watching a generational shift from folks who fought for independence to the born free generation and when i listen to presidency in ping it was quite sophisticated he was talking about inclusive growth he was talking about africans feeling the growth on the street and i think that's increasingly an important point that seeing thing is understanding. is that you know this all in bet limit long bet on leadership at a moment when leadership is about to be up ended in many places is a very interesting moment for china to handle and i think we've got to keep an eye on that but look make no mistake and mean these projects are not delivering the
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return on investment that they should be delivering just simply not going to do it in some cases the never going to do it and the point is what's going to happen when this becomes evident to many many people and we're seeing that evidence in front of our eyes and i think that's the challenge for china i also think we confluence sight of the overall geopolitical situation we've got president trump rattling z. in ping's golden cage looking to bottle up china in the south china sea not keen on expansion into the indian ocean so you've got a lot of other cross currents which are at play at the moment and i think we've got to watch them all unfold but it is a fluid situation in my view and why does that not consenting china but it's going to be saddled by all of these bad loans which can never be repaid. it is certainly a concern for china has specially when domestically also faces some liquidity problem but we cannot say that infrastructure infrastructure building is
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necessarily wrong in africa if i live in a village in a remote uganda do i want to erode on that connect to my village to the nearby township of course i do but as some point to this low might go sour but i wouldn't be able to see it probably the later generation children or children's children will have to repay it a little but it doesn't mean that to building this road is wrong it probably will leave a lot of people out of poverty and we cannot deny that china has gotten word it is now by its a by the so-called china model which is a data driven infrastructure spending model and that has through the chinese miracle in the past forty years and whether that model can be export it to africa and whether african countries want to adopt it it's a different question but you know the the world has no patients really this is a once in a lifetime opportunity that china is a willing to provide it is kind of liquidity and she him can consider this
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a lot in the road investment initiative as a one thousand year project for himself so it's very important actually for the practical business men to take advantage of this opportunity it is just that one it's there you just have to seize the day ok i said we proved irresistible to many people on the african continent and i said out how is it benefited people in america as chinese investment benefits of morocco or morocco is the solution for chinese investment but it's not as big as south africa or nigeria. or or on goal of for example so morocco has like a diversified kind of investors from both u.s. and also europe middle east especially china so it's not highly dependent on china although like. very important the relationship that exists in rockland and chinaman politically and also morocco is being seen as
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a platform since it has also its own investment in africa and its own interests in west africa let me go back to the point that the previous point about regarding like the weather whether like the zone like investments in infrastructure is very important and i agree with the fact that roads and highways and also like ports and airports are very important and they could be like structuring projects in terms that they create some sort of dynamics around them and i think the challenges for the chinese is to go beyond the infrastructure and then work with the african governments on well for the using kind of sectors and i think i do culture is very important and energies and energy and mining and agriculture technologies and the transformation that are happening to some countries like zambia or one donut other places those are the kinds of transitions that should be accompanied by countries
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like china so that there could be enough wealth creation there can be enough jobs but also there could be also enough taxes for the governments to pay back i mean like those kinds of that and i think that's the question that needs to happen i mean the problem seems for exam the declaration of chinese officials and the concerns of the africans i think that they need that kind of concern about the fact that yes infrastructure is important yes that should not be like big but should be geared towards like infrastructure but i think there is a need also to to to have like more focus on sectors that develop like wealth and also i mean you look at africa and i think a lot of countries i could do was send a golf ball or one that others are probably not on board but are growing and some of them double digits and i think that is prosperity to be created to. be enhanced in those kinds of countries and i think the investment is geared towards that kind of prosperity. do you see china willing to make that transition to invest
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in other areas of the economy and for this to become a more balanced relationship. absolutely i think they have to i mean and you know of i'm not knocking infrastructure i'm just not getting the price tag right i'm saying ina road is good if it's built to the village but if it's built at the right price if you pay three times the price that the road costs then you've got a problem you've got a debt burden so if we can contend july's it in that sense i think look this relationship is dynamic it's going to change is going to change dramatically i think the just the linguistics of president seeing ping at this conference is signaling that the that he's listening and that is he's looking to turn and i think the question is does the does the bureaucracy turn with him do they listen to what he's saying or is it going to be more of the same which is a rather freewheeling type attitude. a lot of contracts which ultimately have gone
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into financing elections that you know you've got these big ticket projects for infrastructure way money is being creamed off the top recycled into winning the election and supporting the government of the day so this is a very very obvious of the question is can can presidency in being clean up shop and dole is a good example because if you look back at the chinese engagement with angola there was a very freewheeling typing gauge went i think there was a very well known character out of hong kong a contra member's name now but you've seen cd paying stamp his mark try to try to sort of. own the engagement much more but he's going to have to take a lot more ownership of it over it because for now what we've seen is a lot of privileged people eating the chinese cake the question is the crumbs going to get down to a billion african citizens whose refrain has been throughout this twenty year
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expansion we can't eat g.d.p. and i think that's what he was responding to in point of fact very interesting and that we will have to leave discuss. for today many thanks to all of you dan one. and con. and thank you to very much for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website there's al-jazeera dot com a further discussion to go to our facebook page at facebook dot com for slash a.j. inside story and you can watch it also join the conversation on twitter or handlers at a.j. inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here it's by for now. it is.
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the occupied west bank city of hebron is on the front line of the arab israeli conflict you don't really care after a while of palestinians you don't like it i don't like it but you just don't care about but one man is standing up to israeli pressure to sell his house for an unimaginable figure they could call a good guy who is in remission but the government al-jazeera world tells the story of the house that's a symbol of resistance to continuing occupation the hundred million dollar home. lives in fear constantly looking over her shoulder she says she was threatened by armed men as they ransacked the home she knows who ordered the attack and why they want to develop on her community's land as usual boxes we can't let the men to imitate us we need to continue they can kill me i'm not afraid of being killed i need to defend my people who've been here since fifteen sixty nine without any help
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from the government and now they want to destroy the forest that is part of us land ownership in brazil is among the most concentrated and unequal in the world those who ordered the intimidation the murders are rarely brought to justice one of the best health care systems in the world my lot is in there isn't trust with local doctors as the gatekeepers we have radical concept here can now only call well makes you a better doctor but as the population ages what challenges does the u.k.'s national health service face that's a big problem all people in the interim a practicing drives because of the stress of paperwork can choose financing the u.k.'s frontline on the people's health on al-jazeera. china is keen to win friends and influence you need oil rich middle east business spark the wrong turn land of china to secure its resources for the future of the i.m.f. sub sub so hard regions as a whole dollars expect to grow we bring you the stories to the shaping the economic
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world we live in counting the cost on al-jazeera. this is zero. hello and welcome to this news hour live from the headquarters in doha for the back to bill coming up in the next sixty minutes as strikes in syria's last rebel strongholds raise fears of a new meaning final government offensive. britain's main opposition party makes a breakthrough on defining anti-semitism as it tries to end a long running internal suit also this hour japan is battered by its strong as thai foreign in twenty five years plus. a rocky start to the confirmation hearing for donald.


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