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tv   Inside Story 2018 Ep 277  Al Jazeera  October 4, 2018 8:32pm-9:01pm +03

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one of the facts and the evidence tell us after seven. and us to go short the fact is that these allegations have not been cooperated none of the allegations have been corroborated by the seventh f.b.i. investigation not in the new f.b.i. investigation not anywhere a turkey's foreign ministry has summoned saudi arabia's ambassador in once an explanation for the disappearance of a prominent saudi journalist saudi officials say german shows he disappeared after he left the consulate in istanbul but the turkish government says it believes he's still inside the building those are the headlines we're back with more after inside story.
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the head of a u.n. team looking into possible war crimes in yemen has accused saudi arabia and the u.a.e. of interference the panel says both sides of the conflict are to blame for rights abuses but what can this inquiry achieve in yemen this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm a gym yemen has been at war for more than three years now the region's poorest country has been reduced to even further misery as the saudi iraq coalition continues to battle the rebels for control now the head of
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a un group investigating allegations of abuse in the country says his team faced interference from saudi arabia and the united arab emirates the group has submitted its findings to the united nations we have a lot to discuss with our guests but first bernard smith has more. says the government's rejection of his team of experts report is political he says the saudis in them are ati's tried to influence his team they try to damage its credibility but they didn't manage and indeed the mandate of the team of experts working in yemen hospital extended by the u.n. . because the yemen government as it has said is no longer going to cooperate with the team of experts and that will make their work in yemen much more difficult to be says that they submitted a confidential list of names of suspected human rights violators to the u.n. in new york. i did not expect such harsh
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reactions we've done a professional neutral i'm done. all we did was report based on allegations and actions we collected during our visits from testimonies and reports it's a normal process for any expose we can always discuss the results but this did not happen now the un's team of experts report into yemen faults all sides accuses all posses a few men rights violations but much of the criticism is extended towards the saudi and u.a.e. led coalition specifically for their widespread use of strikes on targets in yemen . all right let's take a closer look at some of the findings of this report u.n. experts accuse yemen's internationally recognized government saudi arabia and the u.a.e. of possible war crimes including torture rape and illegal detention the report found that the saudi erotic coalition caused what it calls most of the documented
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civilian casualties all sides are also accused of recruiting child soldiers the u.n. is calling for an immediate into fighting and for countries to stop selling weapons to those involved in the war. all right let's bring in our guests in london a mother dina as your buddy political commentator and author of middle east affairs and joining us on skype from new york had been shamsi advocacy and communications director for middle east north africa with human rights watch welcome to you all at the dinner if you would let me start with you so the head of the u.n. group of experts on yemen can manage an do b. he says that both saudi arabia and the u.a.e. trying to interfere in their work what do you say to that and what is the response from saudi arabia and the u.a.e. well obviously so if you're out of the. states crucial and they are they're not for invasion of yemen but they are there and thirteen community to request of the there is a demand yemeni government so this is the essential point to have and to understand
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it so above the point is this there are more than one reported just so we mention about the less than two months ago another report it is other to talk about the humanitarian level not involved in politics or talk about politics for the state could illusion all along they said we are with the law the national human rights law or the international law no abuse no annie negative points yes it is a war obviously there are some mistakes that out of a state school tuition they said admit of our special with about four or five years ago with that the school. children bus you know and then they admitted so it means that there is no attention to be against their human rights or to be a violation against that on the show no so this is the most important to understand but we have to say no. they involved with politics not not just the because lee
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humanitarian level. look we sui talk a lot in the news about the allegations of war crimes being committed in yemen. there been charges that both sides are committing these war crimes could you with the work that you do detail to our viewers some of the types of war crimes that you believe are being committed by both sides in yemen. well there are indeed green violations of the laws of war committed by both sides and we documented the both so on the saudi the coalition side we have documented unlawful coalition air strikes some likely were perhaps as also the coalition has use cluster munitions which are banned internationally and we have also highlighted the role of the united arab emirates in torture and forced disappearances under the site we have documented in this ferment shelling of civilians choose again a violation not for the use of anti-personnel landmines do you know of torture in
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the pension centers enforced disappearance and also the use of child soldiers and mounted injured so if i can ask you for your response to what you just heard. had been shamsi say with regards to the allegations of war crimes committed by both the u.a.e. and saudi arabia. there's a very clear point to you have to be logically initially when we think when the other said crucial they admitted they did some stick to the war as one of the end of the day but do it do do they have attention to the violation against international law or the international human rights law that so does not so this is a we have to be either as i said typically when the political part or typically newtonian level so this is they have no attention to it took seven people and i guess i mean only talk about the whole of the movement no they do some some not
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mystics but they do have attention to event to attack some some. you and sometimes and i call that with international food for the u.n. as one a few weeks ago and one day they're within one month of twice that attack they have to act that sometimes you know so they do this is this building their own to unite the nation for the humanitarian part why they go there why their forces. it took a bite it and use it as when it did it for them so obviously this is the point of view between the two said go to asian or they have not patient for revelation and he almost the whole of the movement or they don't have addition to attack some points the wrong to the united nation so would logically less than to have to think who are to blame not of the out of state could otieno but you have to bend with the movement and i stuck to this level of. the un human rights council voted overwhelmingly in the past few weeks and despite opposition from saudi arabia and
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from yemen to extend the international probe of alleged war crimes does that make you feel at all encouraged that enough pressure can be brought to bear on on the warring parties in yemen and or on saudi arabia and the coalition to try to deescalate the situation. well it is it is indeed a very positive outcome we have called for their new role of the commission and we are pleased that it was renewed because there is the urgent need for more investigations into greater violations of the laws of or by both parties actually as as for the responsibility of the coalition since my colleague figure the other guest in the show said that i mean. the responsibility mainly lies under the side and on the coalition side they are merely mistakes i do not agree with it is more than just mere mistakes and if it was just that why would the coalition itself not
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deploy convincing efforts into investigating those mistakes korten quote the. you know joint. coalition investigative reports are extremely anxious and we also reported about that the only really is initial results about one paragraph is only fifty six strikes even though we have documented where more than their methodology is and clear it is nontransparent their findings run equally and drastically different from our findings from the findings of the amnesty international from the findings of the un we have provided pretty specific numbers on the violations that were coming to by he said we have documented eighty seven and i'm talking just about human rights watch the magician is more. on the initial eighty seven apparent unlawful coalition attacks nearing a killing nearly a one thousand civilians including more than two hundred kids. and some attacks
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in two war crimes how the culture at i can go is filled with fleeing sorry refugees killing women and children at least thirty three of them eighteen different instances a few such of cluster munitions that are banned internationally these are very precise stats and findings so i don't think this is a mere mistake and an intentional errors as europe yes explain it's mormon and it needs more investigation and this is why we have law on the decision to extend the main investigative committee established by the. all right we'd like to bring in our third guest now from brighton lloyd russell moyle a member of parliament with the u.k. labor party he's also a member of the committees on arms export controls now lloyd russell well let me ask you specifically about the sentiment in the u.k. right now there's been growing criticism of arms sales from the u.k. to countries like saudi arabia and the united arab emirates because those bombs
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those munitions are being used in the war effort in yemen and so many civilians have been killed there in the past three years what is the sentiment there in the u.k. right now is there growing criticism of the fact that arms are being sold to saudi arabia and the u.a.e. . well there is of course a huge amount of concern in in some significant quarters of society and we see at the moment a case in the supreme court to review and try and overturn some of the government's decisions for export controls let us remember the government and the civil servants recommended to ministers the should be suspended but the ministers the very top of government overruled it for political reasons this is a clearly a war that is jointly with the coalition to aid and abet what is currently the destruction of large parts of the yemeni people mr rhodes who worry i want to get
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back to the point that is being made about the u.n. human rights council i mean. why take such an aggressive attack against the un human rights council why would saudi arabia not want this probe to be extended in the long run doesn't transparency help. no. as i said the so it out to be are not of the moderates they are not against the international law but you have to understand you cannot fairly and logically to make one level who they are made up on the legitimate government and the forces of the egyptian government supported by the state could lucian so when one united nation look. who they are as i said made good on the ledge of government and put them in one level and they look at them in their report the
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reality the political reality yes they are. political reality on the ground but illegal they made cool they should respond and obey to the security council number twenty sixteen and twenty fifteen so this is you cannot to close your eyes on it and he said so i doubt i'll be some level with the holy see who they are this one digimon this one legitimate you can meet them in one level and know and talk to them no no you have to talk to what if else they must obey to the security council resolution of the count so you cannot put them in one level so obviously there is a clash and this point of view this is what i meant that the out of a set collusion not against that international law the one is war there is a mystic's. so you cannot put them all to judge them and the same level with the whole with the with all along part of the union region. subject and in and out of
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a good ward and they don't respond to all eight as i mentioned the security council. twenty sixteen they don't respond to the initiative of the out of state quantities they don't respond evan to the butter yard conference or the general party or conference this is three key points that cunt find way to to encourage them and they haven't but. sorry let me let me go to you mr russell moyle is it for us to make the point go ahead we've just heard a number of things that are objectionable first of all the yemeni government is recognized at the moment by the international order is not the legitimate government the president was the only candidate on the ballot at the elections his term has long since passed he is probably the only head of state in the world that
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has to have a state visit to visit his own capital it is not a legitimate government and that's absolute hogwash secondly the point of what about tree ok we all agree the rebels have probably committed war crimes and awful things but that doesn't suddenly give you carte blanche to commit war crimes yourself that is the worst betrayal of the international order if they've done something bad doesn't mean you can do something bad and let's be clear if we are expecting saudi arabia and the coalition to be upholding international law that means that they can't be selective in it they can't suddenly say well because someone else has done something nasty we will do something nasty again now let us remember this was an internal conflict an internal war until saudi arabia and the coalition illegitimately decided to start invading on the advice of the illegitimate yemeni government to combat the rebels this is not an international war it should not be an international war it is
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a civil war that needs conflict resolution and dispute management not more bombs and more murders of children in school buses it's been shown see i saw you nodding along there did you want to jump in. and i absolutely said go on what was just said violations on one side definitely do not justify violations on the other side i just wanted to respond to a social barriers are you know statement that you cannot lead the coalition on the same side of our new city as from the east where i think there's a number and march to any eighteen of this year the of this of the high commissioner for human rights for dakotas mistrustful responsible for sixty one percent of the very fights casualties so no they're not exactly the same place they're sponsible of more deaths than even though the police are responsible for instrument shelling and sniper fire as us and earlier but in terms of verified casualties the coalition has more missiles or more a did you want to respond to any of that. well obviously for respect to any point
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of view but the no is no i mean the legend of the government of some others they didn't look at leisure and this is up to them we talk and i wasn't i have learnt we don't get what the look of the topic states we're talking about out of the gulf according to these these over show parts who they agree this is the government or they have the right to request any have their requests on the out of state religion to have them so this is this is why you cannot of this things you know it's long the whole the problem started from hooty who they are part of the iranian society if you they any is that all we have to look at the picture of the whole of our room for the for in so i mean for a thousand times not not not not to select what we like and ignore what we don't like this is the hard mix of the whole of problems start from the core of the haughty so the whole if you must respond and obey to the security council. and other to think so i lack you know what they did when the without of
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a good initiative of the out of state go for plus. five threaten to shut. the general out three out conference who they agreed all along about these thirty three men usually but they would pick why they don't just want to go directly because i said part of the strategy of the iranians so there are the can from to hit on not to from sun up so this is the heart of problem otherwise today before two one of the war finish and then yemen every last one to this city key points which so you have to want to question whether the legitimate government are that of accept good russian bonds of pressure on the people of mint mr ressam well i can see that you want to jump in i'm going to let you have your turn here but one second i also want to ask you as well about the fact that it's a rather opaque system in the u.k. by which arms are sold to places like saudi arabia and i want to ask you if the public there really knows the extent of arms sales to places like saudi arabia please go ahead sir. well i think this is the problem isn't it that
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we currently selling huge amounts of arms servicing those arms and with british companies and the support of the british military and there's never been one vote in parliament about the strategy that needs to take place in fact both the british government and the un security council agree that this conflict will only be resolved through diplomatic means and they have said that numerous times no one believes that this conflict will actually be resolved through killing and bombing more people but the british government continue to license weapons to go aboard now the license is a usually inspected by a civil servant and given a yes or no recommendation in the case of britain they were given a no recommendation to be supplied to saudi arabia by the civil servant but the minister for trade and the very highest in the british government overturns the civil servants and the experts on the political decision to take part in the
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coalition activities now that's fine but there has been no vote in parliament it's fine if the british people are wanting it and there is a vote and it is legitimate but the reality is there was no vote the british people have never consented to take part and support the coalition and the coalition's actions are illegal they're not upholding any legitimate government they are killing innocent people and thirty one i'm sorry to interrupt but i just want to ask you one thing you are one point you're making matter what other people do i just want to ask one thing what needs to happen for there to be a vote. well i suspect the government needs to be forced into admitting that it is complicit in some of these crimes that this latest report showing that the routinely the coalition has ignored some of the identified safe zones some of the showing that the joint investigations unit does not routinely investigate some of the most deadly attacks is providing pressure and
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we have an emergency debate in parliament a few weeks ago and we intend to continue the pressure so the government agrees that actually the current situation is untenable but it requires an enormous amount of pressure and we are winning conservatives over because even they are seeing that what is happening and what the sound is are doing is dreadfully immoral mr i do worry we don't have a whole lot of time left i'd like you to please keep this answer short what does it mean that the who these have freed two sons of former president ali abdullah saleh is this some sort of an overture toward the coalition to try to break the deadlock well somehow there is some something you know always you cannot follow and we don't know why because i want to go down to the. dollar to two to two to jordan so that is something you know behind us we don't know exactly what was the deal for that but we hope it does and lot of and state of negative point ok mr last question here for you i'm curious about the fact that there is so much criticism within by
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members of us as congress and also within you case parliament of the fact that weapons are still getting sold to saudi arabia and to the u.a.e. do you foresee a point by which there is enough pressure in these legislative bodies by which arms would stop being sold to saudi arabia and to the u.a.e. or do you think it's just going to continue. all this difficult to identify a specific turning point what i know is that the pressure needs to continue and there's a growing movement for arms and work in saudi arabia i mean the european parliament but through a resolution calling for a u. arms embargo against saudi and french there is the wreath that say that there's a high risk that france's jean sales to saudi arabia are contrary or might be country to international commitments. in the u.k. we discussed the fact there's a legal challenge and it's doing in germany you know the pollution agreement that states that arms export will not be authorized to countries. you know as long as
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there will be a dead written book in the yemen or so that there is a built in pressure and has to continue process we only hope that by dint of uncovering more violations and more war crimes the awareness will grow and it will get to a point where one possible to carry on selling weapons to comment work anymore there's been ships see will you about thirty seconds left very quickly how will this criticism of the coalition affect efforts to revive stalled talks in the war from your vantage point i'm sorry to so any criticism of the coalition that's been mounting will this affect efforts to revive stalled talks in the war do you think the talks will come about again. obviously we're not into that kind of analysis what we do with human rights watch and other human rights organizations just want to turn situation and they were on the ground and make sure that civilians are safe and the laws of war i respect that of course we hope for
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a positive outcome and vote for negotiations to continue but does not our role to sit and she will and this and that direction all is to emphasize the need to respect international humanitarian law and off cases and to reign in alarm bell webs so many civilians are sensitive arwa we have run out of time so thanks to all our guests had been shamsi him at the dinner judy and lloyd russell moyle and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. and sad story for me mohammed enjoy him and the whole team here bye for now.
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