agreed by ankara and washington which guarantees kurdish y p g fighters will eventually withdraw from the area turkey had been threatening a new offensive against the kurdish fighters which he considers a terrorist. president donald trump has warned the us government shutdown will last until he securest funding for his border with mexico trump wants five point seven billion dollars added to the budget for the wall and says he will not sign off on any spending legislation without it. search and rescue teams in indonesia are looking for hundreds of missing people following saturday's deadly tsunami but torrential rains are hampering the efforts that best toll has now risen to four hundred twenty nine people with a further one thousand four hundred injured. at least five people including three suicide bombers have been killed in an attack on the on the foreign ministry in the libyan capital tripoli they detonated a car bomb before opening fire on the ministry. said more news in half an hour the

stream is coming up next. anthony ok in your industry today what consent trees of indigenous knowledge teach us about a lot i really could be in the final show of our indigenous views series will consider how indigenous communities have advanced science often to the benefit of all to mr collins we have twitter and the you tube chat. and the indigenous comics on you are

a mystery. to most of us the work science comes up images of the boat trees experiments and textbooks but indigenous peoples around the wells have their own very different systems of knowledge that have advance human understanding indigenous knowledge also known as traditional knowledge astounded in men tamed by indigenous communities the experiences of tribal members within the natural world are passed down the generations by word of mouth indigenous knowledge is key to understanding in a ray of different science fields this clip from the center for international governance innovation has some examples of traditional knowledge means different things to different people it may relate to genetic resources plants animals inside better native to the area where that particular community resides indigenous peoples and insight into sustainable development and conservation and protection biodiversity and that there's something important in that we need to hear when did

you miss people suffer from. uma says for microbes what have they done to combat illnesses of the use plants food these are. clues to potential sources of medicine joining us to discuss this taro mustonen is a researcher in indigenous and traditional knowledge as well as climate change is also a lead author in the forthcoming six report by the intergovernmental panel on climate change he joins us from so he village north carolina and finland and also from corvallis oregon we have samantha chisholm philip she is a post-doctoral research associate at northwest climate science at that tape and she is at the row member of the indian tribal confederation hello it's great to have you really could not i were in this big editorial meeting earlier on today and we were frying around totems and trying to work out what the terms maint and how brutal they were and then that phrase to ecological knowledge popped up and then i

said. how are we going to start this conversation that's just one of the terms of our communities using people in the know are using here is the breakdown from the conversation it's a research and academic site they write in recent years many scholars have become aware of the large body of information known as traditional knowledge t.k. indigenous knowledge i.k. or traditional ecological knowledge. amongst other terms so i termed their traditional knowledge but to break it down even further we got this comment this is powerless white he is an environmental art activists and professor and he writes not all indigenous peoples use this same term spot when they do it often times for first of the fact that as indigenous people over generations we develop systems for gaining a reliable understanding of the world around us that seems like a good definition i would say you define indigenous knowledge. i really admire dr

he and i just awkward. was a paper and i respect his view highly i think he's very very in the know i actually term it differently and there are multiple people who define t.k. and i k n t k differently i used to ek more as a noun or a verb and t.k. as a noun because i break it down in the mideast many sections of traditional knowledge is you can have a knowledge but not actually quiet and i define t.k. as the application and utilization of that traditional knowledge so it's very survival to people and i think that it is up to the. person the individual and the tribal community that utilizes it so not just as you are not just given a few acronyms to give an example. well t.k. and t.k. traditional knowledge and trishul ecological knowledge would be. primarily the

terms that are used for meat of americans have used indigenous knowledge because indigenous can mean you know people better is indigenous over a long period of time or any span of time in their place they know that plays very very definitively over say four or five generations there is another term that noah uses that is called local ecological knowledge or ellie and that is separate and many people don't understand that l e k is quite different from t.k. or so mad i mean i mean acronym soup right now so i'm good i'm good i believe i'm not going to think that couldn't say that just for a moment because what i want to do was to take us into this different world view that we're seeing so if we look at indigenous science for instance jonathan an example of how paps and indigenous community might look at fishing and the way the rest of us approach fishing that might be

a good way to get people up to speed with what we're talking about can you give us that fishing example jonathan. yes so in my worldview and in a lot of people i work with we're moving away from these ideas of t.k. you know traditional knowledge and common it indigenous science. that's an important distinction i think because this science is still alive today it's not it's from the ancient past of course but it's still alive today some of the things we see now. you know and i point to an example right here in oregon. less than two hundred years ago less a around two hundred years ago lewis and clark came here and in their journals they wrote about the first the first salmon surmounting which during the salmon runs here in the northwest the first process salmon tribal people had selected people to

go out and fish that very first because they caught the salmon they bought them in and from that they made a determination of how many salmon should be taken that year. and there was fish management so that's fish science just like we do today but it was in their own way very important because they understood the consequences of getting it wrong and the consequences of getting it wrong where there were no fish the next year for them to ate there wasn't a safeway or grocery store they could run off to and get some food if the salmon tinker so they were very careful about that today though we see our fish management practices are driven by the dollar and they're driven to catch the very last fish indigenous people understood through their science that's the wrong move nick because if you don't have fish next year you're going to start and i should say that jonathan was a house is joining us from portland oregon he's an indigenous people scholar at the

portland state university and he spent more than a decade working with tribes in first nations and he called water taro. a lot of the information we're getting right now fwiw when looking at this indigenous science and what it is helping us understand climate change that is a big one when indigenous communities are saying climate change before anybody else you have a story about beetles because that gives us a pathway understanding of what we're talking about can you share that with us. yeah. eery the european notes there are multiple range of people some of the people of the indigenous peoples in sweden norway finland and russia and we steadily still very first go management regime for an atlantic salmon stream. that's not the river with the understanding that what could we do to complement scientific assessments of whole climate change is having an impact on

the sentiment on the rivers with so many indigenous knowledge and to jump right into the answer with the beetle some years ago the scots army knowledge holders actually did take the first ever vision of a sudden beetle species that had been moved in from the. more southern latitudes and then this particular alteration was later confirmed by science and ritchie student in all sorts of journals but the point here is that when we discuss indigenous knowledge or traditional knowledge the scales scales of how things are served are not only limited because the clinic and most like all are pairs or whales or you know some of their beetle example shows that these are in one. some way the first line of observation makers and first responders the changes that

are underway and that that you mention the being the first responders it's not something that someone might think about when it comes to beetles in the population but then what that could mean for human populations is interesting belgian here on twitter picks up on that same idea of northern indigenous people such as the anyway it have compiled thousands of years of environmental observations that are now informing our view of how the climate is changing and the most extreme places on earth and in this case the arctic and how the ice is changing so we tend gentle but but but related to what you are saying there i want to play a video comic next from someone else with some pretty specific example this is george nicholas he's an archaeologist and simon fraser university in canada and this is what he told the story. native medicines such as use a little bark have contributed to the development of modern britain and other products well some rude and birch bark and other plants that were traditionally used for healing are known to have been to microbial and enjoy some cool properties

as demonstrated by laboratory studies and are now being examined by pharmaceutical companies and here in the northwest to see initial practices constructing clam gardens increased shellfish product of a need for harvesting it is now being put back into practice thousands of years later however too often just knowledge is exploited without acknowledgement or recompense it's communities that hold the knowledge it's critical that they benefit from outsiders use of their cultural heritage system and that i for one did not know that aspirin originated with willow bark can he does that resonate with you are there other examples within what he said there are constructing clam gardens lots of things there that your average person may not know about right and the thing that is really important to understand is that some of those medicines are accurate that he noted but different tribes have different policies and it varies intellectual property rights that have to be taken into account so sharing

widely and medicine could be used erroneous lee or it could be exploited to the point where that indigenous population cannot use it any per their core of their own ceremonial ways and that's really important to safeguard sends there that the per hour cramming or what is used how it's used where it's used when it's used and how it's used by our very different in the western mainstream world compared to indigenous culture. values so. one of the things to look into is what can be shared and what should be shared because some of those medicines have gone away because of over sharing and exploitation and non-sustainable manners yes and i think i had. yeah i'd like to expand on that a little bit because and you're exactly right it has been exploited down through the ages and in this modern world we live in now i honestly believe that indigenous

science and modern science contemporary science should not be in conflict although they are and they should not be in conflict they should be complementary of each other but through these times of exploitation out through the years through the centuries it's become a huge problem good example right now is the matzos people that live in brazil and peru they have medical knowledge that is basically off the charts and they have created a five hundred page document their medical knowledge but it's written in their language so it cannot be stolen and exploited by this a big pharma or are these you know that large corporations so that's a protection of their medical knowledge but at the same time as we look at that why should be why should there be that conflict why can't we have this respectable

approach to each other so we can share this knowledge that could possibly save some lives or improve at least improve people's lives jonathan to the big question is it still how i have to shoulder in something this is from the well intellectual property organization and that reading we view of the idea that we shouldn't be having to steal other people's notations and cites we should be out of what together so they put together a fictional story of how indigenous communities can walk away with maybe become cooperations and what to get to have a look. i organized a meeting and we agreed to talk with the cosmetics company we expressed our concerns their aging cream used our traditional knowledge we also explained how their trademark was given the impression that the cream was an authentic cool and i product benefiting my community this was not the case. after

a series of pretty hectic discussions the company agreed to resubmit their pay to trademark applications with a yahoo and only as co owner. before you all start looking up the yakuza and i tried they do not exist that was an example of the future and what is possible that i what is possible if your science that you're working on right now is indigenous communities what are you up to. well i think a lot of the urgency is here in the eurasia north that comes into all the other one is of course climate change impacts in. themselves something two years ago we saw in. siberia the outbreak of anthrax us to burn out for us to smelting from some of these campsites. those nomadic indigenous peoples and one small young boy died because of this anthrax was leaked into the into the population so there are all sorts of completely new events which are coming forward the second one which we

are trying to put in place with. ecological restoration so that we we would have more sites more safe havens. fish animals spawning areas restored and so forth as things get worse sort of it's realty urgency of. what we're trying to do here and. the research is like the un tracks are very disturbing we're not far away from having a small talk's that's well on the table and and that's the most personal thing and this should be the kind of issues that are brought forward so i like that you ended your statement that that these are the sort of issues that should be brought forward because we got a tweet from alice here and she said sometimes this knowledge has not been shared with outsiders but in many many cases the communities have been willing to share so why did no one listen and tell it's been reported by scientists she goes on to

posit a theory of why she thinks that is allison twitter says for one thing we academics the media the general public we have a bias towards the new so that knowledge has been long held is not as likely to generate clicks or publications as something that has just been quote unquote discovered so jonathan on this theme a conflicts between western medicine and indigenous knowledge in indigenous medicine keep that in mind about tweaking mine because i want to play a bit comment from kyle white who you heard from a little bit earlier at the top of the show. is also an enrolled member of the citizen pottawattamie nation and this is his take on that conflict. trishul ecological knowledge oftentimes places a lot of emphasis on the idea that knowledge keepers should be transparent and accountable and trustworthy to the people in their communities they serve and that they should be respected for the work that they do scientific bodies often dismiss

traditionally kludged knowledge due to racism and cultural discrimination that erases indigenous peoples histories and the ways that indigenous people use traditional ecological knowledge to support their efforts in addressing today's challenges so jonathan and then throw that one to you but i know samantha has been nodding as i was really no sweets and play that video comments i know she has something to say jonathan you go first. so i think modern society ignores. indigenous science at its own peril. you know there's and there's instance after instance after his of this going back generations to even the my when a fellow named diego deadline and burned their codexes which was their knowledge that was thousands of years of knowledge that this is knowledge that's not been lost to the world and as we go forward there is

a way that the indigenous people of interacting with the planet through generations when it true indigenous person looks out across the land they don't see you know a linear board feet of lumber or an a tree or you know or i own that water and i'm going to bottle it and sell it to you they see all of their relations they understand that they're part of that system to ignore that it is more in the western hero centric context to ignore that we're actually part of this system and we have to work in balance with it and that's something i think modern society should really deeply think about and maybe learn from the indigenous people. that the hands. value system of reciprocity and sustainability understanding that you must be sustainable and you are part of this circle you are part of all of those beings whether you know you consider them alive or or just thirty and you are part of that

coexistence that comes back to you it's really important and it really can click with western value systems owning and property value. fortunately where that's really just detrimental to the system there is a canadian not profit profit organization that's trying really hard to get young people from indigenous communities involved in science have a look at some of what they're doing. actually is canada's leading science technology engineering and math every chart and i say shame on an annual basis we're partnering with two hundred indigenous communities and engaging thirty five thousand youth. it's really about getting to know the community and building trusting relationships with them and ensuring that they understand that we're not there to tell them what to do but we're there find out what they need and more directly with them this technology is

a tool it's not over placement for their cultural knowledge and for us to be able to find ways to blinding those two sets of knowledge is. tearing this is so important is that future indigenous scientists feel just scientists are coming from the indigenous communities so critical what he's seeing. to things. there will be a tremendous transformation. perhaps even a loss of nomadic and traditional life ways as we enter more into this century and the silicone obsession if you will with all that i phones and facebook's is being immersed with with the young people so there will be a moment where we will those large portion of oral histories placed in place based enormities and practices these will happen and these territories that way utilized

by indigenous peoples often for example in the arctic will be done utilized by money companies and others there won't be a void it will be natural resources century now we should find ways of getting those young people back in in land based activities and there if it's well done and natural sciences and training like that might play a role they could be conducting community based monitoring of how things are changing combining that with. the main thing in my opinion which is that how do we maintain women and men on the land we are losing and. you know situation where traditional knowledge is becoming too academic. we're losing the fishermen we. do something. what do we do that well we have to create a century. ago a meaningful to state

a state. and. here's one other solution our suggests and be a twitter michael size develop stem projects that how indigenous communities work with first nations is out of canada to do that and then train young indigenous people to run the facilities canada would be solving its only challenges but also creating ideas and products that might interest others throughout the globe and of course that can be expanded to more than just canada jonathan what do you make about. i think in our modern society it's our burden and also our responsibility to find that perfect blend again balance between the modern and traditional as tara said you know how are we going to make it where these people can live on the land and live in places they. have lived for thousands of years and participate in their culture as the modern society comes roaring toward towards

them and you know we meet today a lot of students they they they do they want to go off to the university but when they're done they want to go home to their culture and their people to help their people move it move you know their society and so i think it is our burden to find a way that that pathway to be able to do that properly and respectfully you know respectful of their culture. it's a big german it's a huge responsibility but i think we can find our way i thank you so much that's really appreciate your insight the south the name today and many what you have to give our last word to our viewers on you tube antonia says traditional knowledge isn't just a cerebral knowledge it is knowledge of the mind the body and the soul connection to the earth thank you very much jonathan ted of the hour and also to samantha reading of playing here with us on the stream you can continue commenting on this

topic on twitter at out zillow dot com forward slash the street bike and it's easy . the arrival of refugees and european parliament. but the journey itself is little understood. to syrians document the route so

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hello i'm barbara starr in london these are the top stories on al-jazeera sudan's president omar al bashir has this miss protesters rallying against him in the capital khartoum as traitors and foreign agents. earlier riot police fired tear gas to disperse the crowds of thousands who were marching towards the presidential palace the demonstrators want al bashir to step

down and blame his government for economic.