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tv   The Listening Post 2019 Ep 31  Al Jazeera  September 4, 2019 8:33am-9:01am +03

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in a completely different way right as i say i didn't mean to jump in but i just want to say thank you to mark the casting because i'm as a filmmaker you know here they are back to the movie thank you thank goodness because when you go to all this trouble and you're telling a story about people who are still very much alive you can clearly see your great fear is that you will finish the film and they will say that's not right that's the end of the movie so it was important quite seriously to. get the information from this source from these folks who would direct in bulk and continuously run the script by them to make sure that we were accurate of course it's a film of course they are played by actors of course we've compressed time. a one year period of time in cancer and life into a 2 hour film but as martin said i mean the key thing here is to stick by the material facts and we have done that and and i'm very thankful for the dedication
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and support and information that martin and catherine and the other journalists and the lawyer and emerson about this case to us and when we talk about sticking to the material facts it leads people to say things like this this is on you tube someone just writing in it she is a hero and she deserves a nobel prize and of course they're talking about you catherine so there are parts of this movie where you're pro-trade by here and nightly so what they did liam so beautifully where clearly you're having to make a barry tough choice but because it's a movie and it's dramatize the viewer doesn't always see how tough that choice was and i'm talking specifically about your family life your yard your husband at the time who was put in a precarious situation to talk to us about what was going through your mind when you decided to blow the whistle keeping in mind your husband's status as immigration status. well i have to be honest i didn't
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actually think of anybody else at the time. i had the sort of i don't know bling kid like a horse you know bling bling because on. which kind of prevented me from even thinking about the consequences i mean i don't really know how to describe it except that i was very very concerned about. what was going to. inevitably happen it seems in iraq i mean campaign people's lives being destroyed you know a whole. devastation across the country and. that was like the most pressing thing in my mind at the time it was only later when you know when i might position seemed to be untenable that i felt like i had to come forward and confess that i had baked it. that's when everything starts. and i realized that you
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know i was suddenly going to be in a whole lot of trouble. after having to have to say we had a long discussion about you. can we were thinking but i was what i thought a husband why would she say i was a been done to the boss he was at the site and see didn't she really love him that we what we she went back and forth about why would somebody do that he's such a huge sacrifice and he said he didn't even it didn't even occur to. yeah i mean the. psycho. and. i did and i was just so caught up in the moment i was so caught up in the fact that war was imminent and yeah and i was trying to manage and i aren't and i mean i was trying to be an anonymous and i didn't i didn't think that. even from your husband still remaining anonymous get in take have a what caffeine fix not address but it was through you can i think you know what's
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interesting about catherine's point is we mustn't we mustn't forget that as she described to me what at the moment she leaked it she wasn't planning on confession i mean she was you were rather hoping this with you would leak and that someone would investigate further out that you so you describe and we said that in the film is that right and that you would never have you say it was you it was only when you saw your friends being interrogated so and other people's lives you could not ruin i come in here just felt you had to step in and say so but i don't speak for 4 people good luck no question sorry monica and i think i mean yeah i mean i think you have to remember. lou was a terror. she really. acts in a sense a way she simply wanted to get something out and how do we be able to work with her a more conventional way how do you been able to. to work in the way that we light
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so with our sources we would advise to completely differently we would have to trust starts told her to keep her mouth shut. but she's such an honest person that she she just felt she couldn't do that so one thing that the film is clear but it is i think unusual by these kinds of cases is that. question wasn't. castrating did not work with us it later became i think quite important i was in the case but you know the time we had no idea. and. let's just remember that she's not someone who's trained to do this kind of thing she was just acting coach i'm so glad you spoke up there martin because so much of this conversation surrounds the role of the media and earlier we're talking
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about handing the baton over to the lawyers because there is the melt multi-pronged process but some people online accurately are saying it was the media that dropped of the baton in the 1st place i want to share a comment from reuters national security correspondent jonathan landay and here's what he told the story whistleblowers play absolutely vital role in helping to hold governments accountable they expose corruption they exposed malfeasance the expose abuse of power and they become whistleblowers because there is no mechanism within government at least in their opinion that allows them to report these abuses so they come to the media and in that regard whistleblowers play absolutely vital roles in helping the media do their job in holding governments accountable martin so many people recognize that now that newspapers organizations television stations were dropping the ball when it came to this story. you know they weren't alone i mean i completely agree that. large swathes of the media excepted
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the government narrative. and shame on them for doing that but that's not the job of journalists the job of journalist sister to go stories and report them. so it's not the job of journalists or take the side of the antiwar movement was to try to find out what was happening and report it and i'd like to think that had i found evidence that there was. a cache of weapons of mass destruction in iraq i would have printed that that's what that's what journalists do. but it was not just the journalists that. dropped the ball here it was parliamentarians it was the legal system it was the diplomatic service. people who failed a lot of people failed in that in the run up to the war in iraq and we're still feeling the consequences not. i completely appreciate. what's
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correspondent saying that. but i think that what happened is that because we allowed politicians to play fast and loose with the truth during the iraq war we've ended up in the situation where we are now where politicians really don't care whether they're telling the truth or not and we have that problem again in person and in america let me just play the moment where that mosque and katherine meet this is just outside of the court where all the things where. you can government can cap going to court so it's a very tense moment have a lot. he took it in real risk these are the risks thing we did was extraordinary i think when you understand this extraordinary institutions failed us and come intelligence services and press they failed us categorically even land paid to support the war before then and they seem to be no
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thank you. to pour you did. matters. so calving the 2nd time i watched the film i could hear the music welling up and i think well that's what i was some tape from at that point so you know many have forgotten the audience but we're real facts well our 4th will still foot into our understanding of the lead up to the iraq war the iraq war well i mean i'm old enough to have lived through that war and. it all seemed you know we heard all these stories about weapons of mass destruction and. being lied to and colin powell has conceded that you know speech at the u.n. was one of the worst days of his life and but somehow it all seemed a little above us or a little big and this story took a meeting and i hope our audience will be taken into a very personal quite simple situation of it all really person katherine and i know
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isn't offended if i say she's ordinary. doing her job who could be one of us i've said it before and and so it became a lot more accessible on one has sort of compelled to ask what might have happened had one or 2 or 3 other people who received this memo whether it be any say or g.c. h.q. in britain done what catherine did imagine if just one other person at least that many imagine if 5. so when martin says that our institutions fail us and it's great to hear you say to this the mets would say what is it i'm going to rather than it you see i took notes from my to listen for me to the movie it was recent. but when he says that he's right you know it's the press fails to take deeper but so did certain people within the security apparatus fail to resist what i mean in fairness
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you know admiral boyce all took to his great credit was demanding and legal advice from the attorney general goals from tony blair at before he would risk his soldiers being charged with a war crime well of course we now know that the vice was consistently right up until you know a matter of a week or so before that war that tony blair needed a u.n. resolution in order to be to justify that war so. there are people who are speaking up but perhaps not enough and so it's a difficult thing i mean i'm not suggesting that. everybody should leak every state secret and i don't believe cat you're suggesting that you know what i admire about catherine will be interested in about cancer is that she is only ever to this one memo she hasn't even to this day told busy me he or anyone else as far as i know what else she did. that and she says she was loyal she worked for 2 years quite
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happily i seem cut but he's just been but this was a bridge too far is that fit to 2nd. absolutely i mean it was a line i was unwilling to step across i didn't want to collude i didn't want to be part of you know. what subsequently has become one of the biggest tragedies in the you know last 20 years or last you know longer it's a huge tragedy that ends before then iraq and the repercussion to have carried on through. the last 16 years you know we still feel the rate repercussions to to this day catherine i wanted to ask briefly before we close the show on some of the repercussions for you the at this video comment from tom miller have a listen. to i've interviewed over 200 whistleblowers and trust a 1000 with civil experts and activists and one of the most consistent themes i've seen is no matter how heroic the whistleblower is what or how much good they do how
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many lives they say they are permanently excluded and blackballed from their chosen work in the future and that for me is an unforgettable indictment of the industries in which they work and of society that can cheer the whistleblower in the theater as a hero but then go home and forget that in real life the suppliers lose their jobs and sometimes their families their livelihoods forever. severe repercussions would you do it again. yes i would i mean i don't i don't want to live knowing that i didn't do my best and you know you don't know tell you tries i tried. i just want to show you what kathleen that spotlight but fame because it's such an impressive. youngster who decided that she was going to take on her government while i'm here talking about official secrets and this is the movie poster michelle to check out official secrets is now playing in the u.s. and how to and i bring later this year in the u.k.
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and around the world just have time to thank catherine martin gavin as of being with us on the string really appreciate your time take half away. talk to al-jazeera we what guarantees would you give to the people will be attending the minimal workshop we listen i'm supposed to explain apologize for someone it's also terrorizing we meet with global newsmakers and talk about the stories that matter on the edges there are. we understand the differences and the similarities of cultures across the world. so no
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matter where you call home al-jazeera will bring in the news and current affairs that matter to you. al-jazeera. for the congolese the journey to work all aboard seems unimaginable hardship i prefer to live don't exist any more i got the call can truth chance a good life and live on a dangerous journey through the jungle i've gone on to the rails when i merely died . our children go to school and live because on the train. risking it all the democratic republic of congo on al-jazeera. cultura damns drives here every day generations of tibetans continue to embrace and maintain their cultural heritage it's a reminder of who they are and whether probably this is a suburb of the indian capital new delhi tibet subbie refugees here since 1964
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