tv The Stream 2019 Ep 156 Al Jazeera October 1, 2019 7:32am-8:00am +03
about alleged corruption spiraling inflation and a shortage of gasoline the german carmaker volkswagen has rejected calls to settle a customer class action lawsuit over its rigging of diesel emissions tests it is the 1st day of the hearing which is the largest legal claim of its kind in modern german history hundreds of thousands of people are demanding compensation following the so-called diesel gate scandal which is already cost the company around 30000000000 dollars bucks wagon admitted using illegal software to cheat and did tests in 2015 well those are the headlines we will have more news here on al-jazeera but 1st it's the program the stream stay with us. we. give to the people would be a workshop we listen i'm supposed to explain apologize for someone it's also terrorizing we meet with global newsmakers and talk about the
stories that matter just 0. welcome to the stream of family ok uganda mother has launched a landmark legal effort to be reunited with her child was taken through a forward in an adoption but her case is a leak today we ask has international adoption trick to condom parents for their children single thoughts through twitter i need change. in most cases adoption gives the child opportunity and stability but some biological parents in uganda have lost their children without their consent amid fraud and excellent exploitation last week a mother filed a ugandan cool petition to overturn what she says is the illegal adoption of a son a lasso a living or patients from campaign group no white savior has suggested that stream
cover this story and sent this video called i have a. reason why the story is really important it's because the book and the steel in the road the book as a tribute to the united states going to want us to be signed up to now so the should be a stop on display be ugandan government this is what we are doing for now. which aside as you can to find solutions to this problem. we're joined from the ugandan capital kampala by dennis and that of magna advocates he is the legal representative for the mother who filed that petition and cavell is a correspondent is emmy award winning 4 lines film adoption inc the baby business examined for the adoption cases in uganda he's also in kampala nicholas arpaio is a human rights lawyer who has in the past but on adoption cases he's also in the ugandan capital and joining us right here in our washington d.c. studio ryan hanlon he is vice president of the national council for adoption what
it's good to have you here nicholas you used to work on adoption cases it was such an awful experience you gave up why. well about 12 years ago when i went to them actually told me. to provide legal representation and. funding going to local home. i mean that. i gave her a couple of abduction cases but after. doing a couple. because the entire. process in this country was for correction. and my conscience. so many occasions so many american. court hearings and only chimes with the court.
and my conscience clear i abandon the. case to the american embassy and to the media suggesting. something. unfortunate grab the time. being. doing that. with no time ran by the attorney general of the republic of uganda and nothing much we've done about it and to continue. to continue you know dennis what you're describing is actually not a typical and with international adoption it's a very normal thing that when u.s. families travel they often don't meet that child until they're in country to finalize the adoptive placement so exactly what you're describing there is something that we would see in countries all over the world the system is designed that way where the parents aren't in the country or selecting
a child in advance they're receiving paperwork from the foreign government or from the foreign entities that they're partnering with the u.s. side and the foreign countries are partnering in that collaboration so wrong that sounds like a transaction it sounds like you don't have to. point out is ready. it's very transactional and we wouldn't want to use those commercial terms and we're talking about anything pertaining to you know children and there always are but what we want to talk about are the safeguards that are put in place and i need safeguards where on the u.s. side we're screening in assessing parents and then in the foreign side there screening the entire situation revolve involving the birth parents and preparing a file on the child to make sure we have the proper medical information the socio biographical history and then the foreign government and the u.s. government are both agreeing to that adoption so the idea is the paperwork that stumps us before the race not a solution you know if that's the liberal that's ideal i don't know much but i
think nicholas let me show you something good yet there had macaca and then i want to show our audience something that i thought they to connect with us you want to see the families and i know it went and met families on both sides of the atlantic because you don't have a faith that i think in cases involving children one of the most important is if i believe to be able to have a connection with which are it would simply about the epilogue in my family more than a connection because if the child is jack's you know you can begin to figure out their emotional process for the child there or so i think that our interaction may be terrible experience or 10 and the fact could be if you've not been bam i mean even being suggested that. i think will be your complete disregard it will be emotional i well being of the child that is am i right in thinking that. the laws in uganda have changed somewhat over there. that there is a period of time where that up to parents have to be available to that child and
have to have contact with that child for a year was it through yes help me out. thank you i think what may grow their own say for missing the point and i want to call go with my brother nicholas that the relationship between and i don't give parent and child is that our interest possibility and it together with that but to ensure intending to period should have an opportunity to live together so that well and grows dark in the ugandan laws under the children's act it only intending to parent is supposed to leave with a child to a period of one year and they should of foster that child so that one period and footnote really the system is secure you know where that adds up becomes explained
the look holds as to defeat the ends of justice as far as children's interests are concerned in adoptive person says i guess let me just take a pause for a moment i want to play a little bit of the for film that was involved in a 10 because it takes us out of the process the paperwork and really says the real people behind some of the stories where they have rock have a look. the only place florence genova see their children now is in photos. 5 years ago they sent them to stay with their system area. but when they returned to collect their children had disappeared from. marian claims she put them in a boarding school but in fact the children had been taken to america legally adopted without their mother's knowledge. what do you think about the fact that a family can come from another country and become illegal parents of somebody
else's child to be sure you know who the runner nametags family is and then he's going on and i'm going to where to now for long i'm as if i laugh around. and i want to bring into this conversation by vice and tweets and some comments from our online community so look at eva here eva says it would appear that the adoptive parents and all the orphanages are taking advantage of the language communication barriers of the mothers and so they're helping the mothers raise their children the system is enabling the children to be taken away very sad and then this very simply for. they still children what is your take. well i think we were talking about the gas which will rot the paperwork area and that is significant but i think what it might be difficult for people outside uganda and other countries like uganda might be difficult to understand is that
institutions don't function as a christian lee if they do elsewhere in the world in the u.s. for example and people's communities and people's families are not necessarily going to be as organized as people in the developed world would expect to it might seem very surprising that 2 mothers could send their children off to boarding school and have no idea that they've been legally adopted without their knowledge that's because documents he can very easily be forged and in that case for example the aunt posed as the mother of those children and was able to take those documents not only to court but also to the u.s. embassy in claim that she was the mother of those children so the paperwork was the only in that it was all appearing to be official as far as anybody in court or the american embassy or the u.s. adoption agency may have been concerned and i think that is at the heart of what this problem because if you can't trust the paperwork or if you can't trust the institutions where corruption is widespread it's very very difficult to protect the
families in uganda who are losing their children and it's also difficult to protect the adoptive families in places like america because when they just go over what's happened when they discover that sport they're also victims of this and very did and you're right that we do need those protections in place and what i would say is that we have protections in place and there are solutions here we can do d.n.a. testing of these individuals to determine are they the birth parent or are they different relative or are they not related to a child at all so that we don't have that exact same situation happen we can do record interviews to make sure this isn't happening but right now the system in uganda is the same as it is in many countries where the birth parents or others would have to go to. and providing a revokable consent there then interviewed again by the u.s. consulate and so you know there are there are solutions and we need more safeguards such as the ones i'm proposing here to put those protections in place because to your point we don't want any any parents the birth parents or the adoptive parents
to feel like anything was not all but above board and i had i i do appreciate that that is an effort that some countries are making but what i think again it's difficult for outsiders to understand is that's not necessarily going to help all of the families who were tricked into giving up their children who i met didn't understand what was happening so in many cases they were coached to go to court or to the u.s. embassy in iraq because they understood that they were getting a wonderful sponsorship opportunity for example these people were very very easily exploited by the agents who were finding these things and a d.n.a. test wouldn't change that because these people were coached to go and lie in court and at the american embassy and again that might seem difficult to understand from the perspective of an american audience but here in uganda if one is a single mother she's illiterate she has no money and somebody apparently of influence like a lawyer or an adoption agent comes to her and tells her what to do it be very
difficult for her to resist she's very very easily tricked it's very easy to mislead these people and i mean something that people here are fond of saying is there is no armed adoption. apparently there is no equivalent so it's very difficult to explain to somebody in a rural area i think i have more faith in you know in the people i have gone to to understand what adoption is and the it's it is a cultural practice it's something that happens within families within uganda all the time so i don't think what you're saying is accurate at all and i think that what you're describing here and even even the i don't know that you have there and we had a we had a bright errant whose child had already been placed for international adoption so the idea that she doesn't understand that i think i just don't have any sense this make or. that our community is really your grab bag you are very very. communal. children are children of the community i'm going to extend it.
and to quantify what charles crime my mother i'm going to leave. because i know all terribly in. north carolina to be without parents because that charlie and i are born into a community where we don't quite fit in what direction is after all the we have to not move there directed here but socially if you're cruel to country that. caption would not be like spirit children belong because i'm sure going to belong to and it didn't get to where you are but. what are you going to wear that charlie believed to be a child of the climate debate the editors and the reason that i think are so i think that's a good point but for me we're missing an important part of the conversation here and i have completely missed or perhaps purposely excluded an important voice here which is that there is an organization going around uganda trying to coerce and
threaten birth parents and telling them they need to rescind and then that same organization is reaching out to u.s. families and doing the same thing so i have a question and a why didn't you report on that in your film. i've actually never heard about is not something recent so i don't you know it's not going anywhere i would have thought had you learned that it was in isolation and reunite let me let me play this because this is a little clip from the film and i think what i did in the film was she did reflect that money was a big impact in terms of people feeling that maybe my child would be looked after by by these other people across the ocean not quite understanding maybe what that transaction actually meant and then the question used for one of those organizations so that she was pushed into walking for them and if she didn't do the walk stripping fiat have a look at the sky. so what was the involvement of journeys of the heart. to provide their financial support and then i would provide the service and was the
70s was to find children that can be adopted they wanted if they think fast 1st because if if you get a child today spend in our home late 23 months. is adopted that means they're spending less of this change but if a child comes to his for a year. it's much experience and they would say that to him say we need children that can be adopted 1st so dennis this idea of this mother who doesn't have parent or rights over her own charring you are trying to get them back . is that even possible legally it is not the parent anymore. but a sister. career also married the entire situation as it is under
a system where. i don't you parents abuse the processes. information together we're. all grown ups now because we're hungry is close to what i know is saying. we have to all legal guardians living in was you know well misrepresented. periods or the channel was. grown who will or who the woman. gives you or that was granted. was this is why when you look at there it was the mother is with us today mr smiley because i know you've been following this case for a long time i just wanted know can you get your child back if there hasn't been said there's a little work that's gone over why there's been some 40 involved can this mother become the mother again or would the adoptive parents who are legally the guardians
will they at some point be out to get that child from your dad that that child where legal guardians group you are an adoption order it didn't become grounds which i enjoy all for learning through vocational ground where i'm not really going to supervillains that dennis finish your desk let dennis finish basically if you're going to is actually going to get her child back that is that's that's what i was curious about now is is that possible. it is the responsibility to. be related. let me bring in remembering it another but never thought i was going to run this by brian because the concept of international into country adoptions is quite controversial as they come more and move they're actually beginning to drop and the more countries that say no you cannot take our children out of the country
the more places like uganda republic of congo become more attractive for families and parents to possibly dot do you feel that adoption should not be allowed to happen from one country to another country without make life a lot simpler for both sets of there's hundreds of thousands millions of children around the world growing up without parents and if we cherry pick one case here and one case there and we make a docu documentary and say you know adoptions what made us act quotes were stuck in the documentary no adequate it didn't come across as journalism it came across as activism it didn't show the whole story what i was saying earlier before i was cut off is there are going to say she's going around from birth parent to birth parents threatening them telling them they have to rescind you know telling them that what they did was wrong and so none of that was reported on in that so-called documentary i don't think that's an accurate depiction of adoption whatsoever in
fact i think adoption is a way that we're able to allow hundreds of thousands of children who need parents to get the loving families that they deserve all right before i close i want to show you something to hear these out and leave it there are a whole tonight everybody nicholas nicholas hoult time this is really important for our audience how will carry on my laptop these adoptions international adoptions i'm going to just pick 2018 i'm going to go down to uganda. to write down here just bear with me everybody because i want you to see the number of adoptions that we are talking about that are registered and then i you can come right back in here here is uganda. i'm going to press go here and then you'll consist see how many assumptions happened in the last 26. yeah thank you i'm just i'm curious about ryan's perspective because he's now talking to you to uganda but the law there's
a huge volume of evidence which says that. the international adoption coming from places like you is that the american state department right and what is your perspective i use the key to dismiss the idea that to be cultural differences raju why don't you prepared to listen to people here in uganda no i think you're misrepresenting what i'm saying of course i'm willing to listen to them i'm not going to pretend that you're the other 2 guests here are unbiased one of them has litigation on this very matter but you brought of unicef unicef around the world has been shown that they aren't supportive of adoption and they've actually employed mark riley who is part of the couple who is part of this organization reunite that's an adoption that's going to birth parents and harassing them and threatening them and coercing them so i'm glad you raised that with unicef and my question again to you is why are you not reporting on that how could you put together a documentary where this is widespread reported within uganda and not show another side of the story only one side of the story's been shown in the film you produced
let me move on and i made your point i do think that it's just that just in a line if you may and i want to move on ahead. because of my 5 year investigation i interviewed hundreds of people and the only coersion i found was coming from be a job. and that was reflected well let me move on to iran if i lie and read your ego there is both major riney don't like the film and as such it's been a long a lot of time working on that film i'm going to move on if i may iraq shutter and now muamba is our best affiliate ganders a dog that's not gonna zation in uganda that says that we can take care of our kids we can take care of them a week and look after them and adopt them within the country have a listen to what she had to contemplate to asho today think it's really sad that unscrupulous people are taking advantage of desperate families and they being facilitated by different players within the system i believe adoption should only
happen as a last recourse after all efforts have been made to try and resettle children with their families just so they are not kept to situations because the honestly don't belong in institutions then i don't believe that intercountry adoption. to uganda children's problems because it's bad enough having to be raised by a family that's not sugar family but to be taken away from an environment in a culture that you're familiar with into a different country can be very very difficult and honestly we've been talking on children formally and informally for a very very long time and we do not need to turn to the west. so i'm just looking here and yet you do not come to mind my laptop because it's not looking pretty baby armored regress create family villages do not let foreigners adopt knickers a couple of other ideas change is possible perhaps an adoption of international treaties is a 1st step in false reporting such as the un african union etc etc etc are there
other ways that children uganda can be adopted. in the class i had. been there i think there were more important to point. out that you could be a group to be sure and be what america hears our children it's not your. usual . dears to are going to agree on. what country or community american remark. or discussion about that there is a place there is there's a conversation in the us that if i just want to fight just my at and us the reason why parents often adopt overseas is it's very difficult for them to adopt within the united states that's actually not true there's $124000.00 children in the u.s. waiting on adoption they can be adopted from foster care there's also lots of private domestic adoption the children that are adopted internationally if you say they got that going for them here are they going fake young babies in south waddled
actually americans more so than any other country and children children with medical special needs children that are part of sibling groups they're going because there is a need there i mean your guests are the clip you just showed she said she'd prefer children to live in an orphanage instead of a family that's a ludicrous position children have a human right to grow up with parents have a human right to a family and to have guests on there that say otherwise is really appalling and i think ought to be called out nicolas what you said is absolutely right if i may i did actually speak just before a lot of them are you know i don't speak i don't even watch that are feeling you can guess about that if i don't guess we out the end of the show i can tell that this is the guy that continues to play that you know very well ryan because they idea of him to come adoptions is incredibly controversial event. thank you for being part of this conversation will continue we appreciate your time here on the us again next time i can't.
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