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tv   Inside Story 2019 Ep 342  Al Jazeera  December 9, 2019 10:33am-11:01am +03

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providing the clips into someone else's work out. there. or. inspiring documentaries from impassioned filmmakers. witness on al-jazeera. the leaders of ukraine and russia meet for the 1st time they'll be in paris for a summit spent 18 sufficient ends of a conflict in eastern ukraine so will the 2 leaders find a solution and charge of way forward and what's at stake this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm home here in ukraine elected a president in april whose top priority was to end the conflicts in the east more
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than 13000 people have been killed during the fighting there between the ukrainian army and russian backed separatists and now for the 1st time since he came into office thought in his own skiis meeting russian president vladimir putin where french and german leaders are mediating the talks taking place in paris on monday the so-called normandy group last met to discuss ways to end the fighting more than 3 years ago but president selenski is optimistic he can bring peace to eastern ukraine but his critics see him as a political novice and fear he might give away too much in his quest for peace as opponents up in protesting heads off the paris meeting. well speaking during an appearance on ukrainian television this is what's lewinsky have to say on his expectations from the summits but do you know what's above all this i want to return with concrete things and concrete results but we understand not everything
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will be achieved the meeting itself is already a victory because as you see it we unlock the dialogue that hasn't existed since 2016 and it means there was no opportunity to talk about the end of the war this is what i expect what i'm looking for and what i want to find so much let's take a course a look at how we got here it's all began in 2013 when then president viktor yushchenko which rejected a trade deal with the e.u. and accepted a bailout from moscow that led to 3 months of protests and his eventual removal from office in march 24th seen relations between russia and ukraine worsened after moscow an exclusive mia then fighting began between ukrainian forces and russian backed separatists in the east and in september of this year russia and ukraine exchange several dozen prisoners in a sign of e.'s intentions. well let's bring in our guests joining us on skype from kiev is our lexi her professor
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of comparative politics at kiev more here our cademy in moscow victor only of each lead analyst at the moscow based think tank center for actual politics and also on skype from young gone in myanmar anna mcvey of are a member of the eurasia and russia research group at king's college london and welcome to you all let me start in kiev with a ski hire on these talks that will be taking place in paris see see them as a positive step forward and what would you say ukraine is wanting from these talks . well i think it's positive because previously for more than 2 years mr putin didn't want to have any thoughts with former president so this time was there were some steps that zones a ground so basic i sings there could be
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a progress a progress could be the guiding disengagement of troops in certain areas and exchange of prisoners if it happens it will be but it's a question is what concessions will mr putin demand from ukrainian side because we need to understand very clearly is that for putin what is important it's not done bus it's the whole ukraine putin would like to use fluency crane and to have control or we create so it was a question is what he will try to to push forward and if we are talking about further political measures each should be taking when it does in the stands that what it was a lot of means good preeminence 1st as it should be security should be ceasefire and ceasefire was proclaimed in some time but 2 cells and 14 m. still there is no ceasefire there should be a withdrawal of russian troops withdrawal and disarmament of illegal military
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formations and finally a control over ukraine in the russian border because for her many kilometers of ukrainian russian border not control nizer by ukraine nor by international observers so basically russia can do whatever whatever it wants so newshound security issues it will be impossible to move towards a political political part of means convenience and that's why i'm skeptical at about some singing more substantive zan you know definite go issues of disengagement and exchange of prisons ok let's get the view from moscow and i think it's only of each what is russia wanting from these talks. well all conflicts and at some point but. still a number of around. the. intractable at this point.
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that. would be expected to proclaim for. political figures and fighters and other others in the so-called look on people's republic. of ukrainian parties participating in a new type of elections that would be. those 2 republics self-proclaimed republics. of how they would be greeted under what terms they would be integrated into ukraine and how that would be perceived both russia and ukraine the question of concessions is quiet. quiet important not just for the for the ukrainian president. but also for.
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russia because each side. power in this. conflict is. too much and not being seen as a. sense russia of course is interested in. the 2 peoples republics remaining more. centered over the russian interests and the ukraine is more interested in them being the great is completely political space and that that difference that. interacted. with her on that. expected. sions are not very high from their summit but the very fact that it is being held is already that that dialogue is going to verilog is
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going to take place between. is a positive step in the last year of the previous ukrainian president's administration of professionals at all not only were there no or their ect contacts between poroshenko and last year of question because it all but there was or there wasn't a single phone call between poroshenko which in the last year of bitter about our strength has. cadence in in office so the very fact that the 2 presidents are going to be able to speak to each other is a positive presence of element and hopefully there could be they could lay the groundwork at least for some future progress in the next year ok with these talks are being moderated by france and germany and mad they vie if i could ask you what is europe wanting to get from these talks because it seems speaking to the gentleman in kiev and moscow expectations for any kind of we
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forwards or are at rock bottom what was once europe's angle in this universe and know if. they want to make some kind of reply until the process and election of events gets his will it will just just and his kind of new keeps drive this kind of at least i would say that this meeting is very well that will keep a signal do we go ahead with this format all week quietly kind of site so that's important for europe to get this sense or is it going to sound we're all we just don't always it'll be our thing yes but i'm a. i have not been part of the previous negotiations and there are normally 4 so he comes up with some kind of review of any with matches that statement she has
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been through and through the same thing she has some sense of what he she has been saying all the time and sensible things which annul been taken up gemma position has helped to negotiate my formula so if she is more cunning the air with that kind of wow tim is that world peace understandable but they were. the european partners want to see basically is that the bible process was a dead horse at the moment and bobo the evidence that appeared to suggest right now that it doesn't appear very viable certainly emanuel my craw has been suggesting that the time is to get cool so it's a rush it's a pivot away from the side for sariel approach. and he seems to be the key driver in bringing any progress on
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a european level so. they have a d. do you think that europe is is preparing to step back from its rapprochement with ukraine and start moving courser to russia the outlook be too much of a grand line well we are looking now at something which is a mile long carry. out who didn't don't business together that is not going to be proud breaking its mold quite a result all the problems it's what people are dying it is a very kind of still serious security situation but that may be a make or break to. because my role is the only one among european leaders one has the drive the mh the image a nation also use yeah how some of that lives with billions.
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in terms of wealth being new presidents coming with huge political baggage open to ideas not being afraid but momentum is why important i do this moment actually what the stage or doesn't what does also to do with a leadership skills it's also to do all the work. we want to move well where the search and what ukraine will be slight there are rather screens all major european or let me ask a u.s. carrier and hard to how do you see things in terms of allies for ukraine or are you concerns that allies such as emmanuel microland france or indeed donald trump in the u.s. are turning away from from steadfast support if ukraine where do you see ukraine's our eyes right now. actually who says it is out in several days
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because who would be. e.u. e.u. meeting which will decide on continuation of the so-called sec that all sentient is against russian to settle sentients are connected with implementation of means it remains and from what i understand this centuries will be continued for next half a year however if we analyze that international city asian is not too bad a favorable for ukraine because mccormick is making too much you know prashant statements to to have business as usual ways that asha and he's not very experienced in these kind of negotiations normandy for merkel is much more experienced definitely and by the way i believe today there was a statement from berlin said the ukraine 1st already done unilateral concessions in order to move forwards in negotiations and now it's time for russia
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to make adequate concessions from the russian side regarding crown definitely there is a scandal in ze united states so as there is a threat to the process in the u.k. so. this country is is they work to do. and it's not betting it's not very hoot. for moving forward in normandy in normandy for one saying i would like to clarify because my call it from more school mentioned so-called people's republic we need to understand that nor any people's republic with say i'm not in minsk in minsk agreement is saying nothing about this artificial from a formations this are just broadcast on proxies and the. it is very important to keep in mind these people's republic i'm not recognized by anybody even by russia
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and begins is not mentioned in me as a grievance so we need to understand that what we what we have right now in the ukraine it's not domestic ukrainian. it's ukrainian russian course where is it in or brusha east to control the whole ukraine and begin let me stress unfortunately there are some troops russian generals and officers are in support you by. or dumbass ok let me put that to you victor all of a charity you respond to that certainly we have the strength of feeling form of their ski hire and with your use of these people's republics the so-called people's republic see except that russian soldiers russian troops are in there and these battles are in fact a proxy for russia. well. people's
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republic self proclaimed. not recognized by any 7 states including russia but at the same time they do exist they are facts on the ground at this point of course supported by russia in a number of ways both in. support. political support for them their. military technical military technological technical support for them so of course to so-called. people's republic are facts on the ground and yes of course they're very much tied. to russia but at the same time the vast majority of the population of these republics. vast majority are not people who came over from russia
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and. the people the native population there is quiet cognizant of the difficult position they have been put in by the events of the past 5 years where. their economic outlook is quiet negative they face. a constant threat of resumption of. conflict with ukrainian with the ukrainian army and of course a significant number of people from. that section of don't bust the people's republic because the left has migrated into russia some have migrated into ukraine proper and of course people that are left understand the long term and it's not going to be. very soon. i'm sorry to cut you off there. in terms of concessions we have heard that ukraine
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has made you know lots of oil concessions which russia be prepared to make some concessions as well in a bid to kickstart this process towards a peaceful resolution one of the issues proposed has been holding elections in these 2 disputed regions would russia be prepared to withdraw military infrastructure in the suv reaches alive all the displaced people to come back and take part in these elections well 1st of all there is also a question of what europe is willing to do and how that is going to be received by russia so for example if there are concessions by both sides including gratia cow is brussels going to respond what. how are those sectoral sanctions should sanctions are going to be my defied in order to make moscow. more.
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accepting of of that or more willing to make concessions so it appears that europe and of course the united states is not going to in any case whatever here even if done by us is on its way to the integration into ukraine all sanctions are not going to be moved because of the question of crimea which is not recognized by the west so the question remains what part of the sanctions are going to be changed or modified is that going to be acceptable for moscow how is that going to be perceived by ukraine and how is that going to reflect on the public opinion in russia because of course in russia for the past 5 years the public opinion has been mostly on the side of the so called the people's republic in the side of the russian speaking people in the south. in the south east of ukraine and if russia me. too much of any concessions in
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the eyes of the russians by police and then it could also reflect on how the russian population their actual voters view the care and state there is of russian foreign policy in the russian president just then the russians are not weren't there to make anyone say as it was until i was in manchester later the biggest supporters of the president. let me let the sanctions are obviously a question of given it's a question of given theek and what's russia giving it's a question of given think and well if if russia would be for example willing to move on make moves on possible elections and the getting ukrainian representatives of the ukrainian political parties to take part in free and fair elections in these areas then that would be an obvious concession from us by moscow but of course also ukraine will have to move to make a concession amnesty and amnesty of the political figures the fighters and others
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who have participated in various activities in those the publics because if these areas are to be integrated into ukraine then the people that live there if you have to have to feel secure and they have to kill sure be sure that they're not going to be persecuted and they're not going to face some sort of retribution from kiyo i'm sorry to cut you off we are in the dying minutes of this debate if i could turn to you and. you are wanting to respond to those points from the bitch. yes even. look at the glad picture was coastal that they already made quite a lot of substantial concessions but 8 pain that they will not be recognized as such by ukraine 1st of all i must add also by the international community just to give you a couple of examples there was an offensive in that. order in late august
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early september 2000 at the. rebel forces of course supported by russian troops well making really big advances who didn't want pressure on them to stop their 1st minsk agreement was signed. which thought by doing it to open the rule well ok fred. but still some kind of peace in the next few days the 1st sanctions on russia have been welded so that was very what what what what moscow thought was a major concession when look taking more ukrainian get. its 2nd clear the whole all the time. has been trying to bet that all the rebels will just wish what why go under only at the beginning and what the damage rather than
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what they have will be the secondly every concession can be all from the point of view it is a last will be the last empty elections yes in principle. 3 well elections but then you can put the kind of conditions well this elections which will eventually be raising the bar higher and higher like return will do all of this plays the relation control of the border this and that so. basically even as it would really to move on to something tangible they will find a form but right now we're not talking you know who will be existing and we're still trying to get to this place ok we have one minute left if i could get a one word answer from all 3 of you are you want to mystic or pessimistic that we're on the right excitement excuse really i need to intervene so 1st of all i need to say that elections couldn't be done or q but if that's 1st and 2nd i am
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a bit shocked maybe by what i know was saying the sections were introduced against russia after m h 17 was shot down by a russian a rocket and after our show started intervention in za don't bust and end of august 2014 russia sent regular troops so the sectoral sanctions we're into so i am not sure how can we be talking about russia made concessions that russia made concessions by sending your regular troops to ukraine in 2 summers and 14 and 2 summers and 15 that's why i'm very optimistic because i see mr putin actually he doesn't want peace he would like to do sentients but he doesn't want to stop super war where russia is on the grass unfortunately ok and finally of action here
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optimistic or pessimistic of a solution it is likely to have there will be joint communique at the end of the summit but at the same time. we should not expect any major progress from this event ok and unfortunately we are out of time on this discussion i'd like to thank all of my guests are leskie heart and victor all of it and. thank you to you for watching you can see the program again any time a fizzing the web site out of syria dot com or head to our facebook page facebook dot com for massage 80. inside story join the conversation on twitter our handle is at in-state story and i'm at a lot more he'd seen tonight for me and the entire team in doha it's by. a still real. family freedom calling from i was 8 years old at school we heard the
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sounds of large explosions. and the hardships faced in captivity they came for me at midnight they told me to leave my son i said how can i buy him i saw so much pain in the eyes of the other female prisoners in the our pricing. on al-jazeera. al jazeera. where ever you were.
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a volcano erupts in new zealand tourists visit the crater at least one person is dead more than 20 missing. this is al jazeera live from also coming up fear and despair among muslims in india as parliament debates a controversial bill critics say discriminates against them. so than zimpher one troll paramilitary force the already under pressure its rights groups say it's a threat to democracy. accusations of israeli torture we speak to
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a family in the occupied west bank about their ordeal. of volcano off the coast of new zealand has erupted as tourists groups were visiting at least one person has been killed up to 50 people include. tourists from a cruise ship were on white island when the volcano sent a plume of smoke and ash thousands of meters into the air rescuers say it's currently too dangerous to go to the site new zealand's deputy police commissioner says 23 people made it off the island but many remain unaccounted for speaking at an emergency briefing new zealand's prime minister confirmed tall groups were on the island at the time of the eruption we know already that there were a number of tour.

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