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tv   Inside Story 2019 Ep 342  Al Jazeera  December 9, 2019 2:32pm-3:02pm +03

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fleeing religious persecution in neighboring countries but it excludes muslims sudan's powerful paramilitary rapid support forces has been been accused of stealing a large part of the country's gold wealth global witnesses obtained documents implicating the are s.f. and its leader mohammed have banned the gallow it says the group funneled money through banks in the u.a.e. without civilian or military oversight syrian activists say more than 18000 people have been displaced in the last rebel held ellipse province in the last 24 hours syrian and russian government strikes have intensified despite the cease fire it's inside story now.
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leaders of ukraine and russia meet for the 1st time they'll be in paris for a summit that aims to put an end to the conflict in eastern ukraine so will the 2 leaders find a solution and charge of a way forward and what's at stake this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm home here in ukraine elected a president in april whose top priority was to end the conflicts in the east more than 13000 people have been killed during the fighting there between the ukrainian army and russian backed separatists and i for the 1st time since he came into office lot of years are in ski is meeting russian president vladimir putin where
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french and german leaders are mediating the talks taking place in paris on monday the so-called normandy group last met to discuss ways to end the fighting more than 3 years ago but president selenski is optimistic he can bring peace to eastern ukraine but his critics see him as a political novice and fear he might give away too much in his quest for peace as opponents up in protesting heads off the paris meeting. well speaking during an appearance on ukrainian television this is what sloan ski have to say on his expectations from the summit. but do you have thoughts about what of all this i want to return with concrete things and concrete results but we understand not everything will be achieved the meeting itself is already a victory because as you see it we unlock the dialogue that hasn't existed since 2016 and it means there was no opportunity to talk about the end of the war this is what i expect what i'm looking for and what i want to find so much let's take a course a look at how we got here it's all began in 2013 when then president viktor yushchenko
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which rejected a trade deal with the e.u. and accepted a bailout from moscow that led to 3 months of protests and his eventual removal from office in march 24th seen relations between russia and ukraine worsened after moscow an exclusive mia then fighting began between ukrainian forces and russian backed separatists in the east and in september of this year russia and ukraine exchange several dozen prisoners in a sign of e's intentions. well let's bring in our guests joining us on skype from kiev is our lexi her professor of comparative politics at kiev more here our cademy in moscow victor only of each lead analyst at the moscow based think tank center for actual politics and also on skype from young going to myanmar anna mcvey of or
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a member of the eurasia and russia research group at king's college london and welcome to you all let me start in kiev with a ski hire and these talks that will be taking place in paris see see them as a positive step forward and what would you say ukraine is wanting from these talks . well i think it's positive because previously for more than 2 years mr putin didn't want to have any thoughts with former president so this time was there were some steps that owns a ground so basically i sings there could be a progress of progress could be the guiding disengagement of troops in certain areas and exchange of prisoners if it happens it will be but it's a question is what concessions will mr putin demand from ukrainian side because we
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need to understand very clearly is that for putin what is important it's not done bus it's the whole ukraine putin would like to use fluency crane and to have control or we create so it was a question is what he will try to to push forward and if we are talking about further political measures each should be taking when it does in the stands that what it was a lot of means could preeminence 1st as it should be security should be ceasefire and cease fire was proclaimed in some time but 2 cells and 14 ansteel there's no ceasefire there should be withdrawal of russian troops withdrawal and disarmament of illegal military formations and finally a control over ukraine in the russian border because for her many kilometers of ukrainian russian border not control nizer by ukraine nor by international
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observers so basically russia can do whatever whatever it wants so newshound security issues it will be impossible to move towards a political political part of means convenience and that's why i'm skeptical at about some singing more substantive zan you know definite go issues of disengagement and exchange of prisons ok let's get the view from moscow and i think it's only of each what is russia wanting from these talks. well all conflicts at some point but are still a number of around. intractable at this point. that. would be expected to proclaim for. political figures and fighters and other others in the so-called. people's republic.
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of ukrainian parties participating in a new type of elections that would be. those 2 republics self-proclaimed republics. of how they would be greeted under what terms they would be integrated into ukraine and how that would be perceived both russia and ukraine the question of concessions is quiet. quiet important not just for the for the ukrainian president. but also for. russia because each side. power in this. conflict is. too much and not being seen as a. sense russia of course
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is interested in. the 2 peoples republics remaining more. centered over the russian interests and the ukraine is more interested in them being completely political space and that that difference that. interacted. with her on. the. asians are not very high from their summit but the very fact that it is being felt is already that that dialogue is going to dialogue is going to take place between. is a positive step in the last year of the previous ukrainian president's administration of it all not only were there no or there rect contacts between or a shrink and which in the last year of question has it all but there was or there
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wasn't a single phone call between poroshenko which in the last year of arbiter of our strength has. cadence in office so the very fact that the 2 presidents are going to be able to speak to each other is a positive positive element and hopefully there could be they could lay the groundwork at least for some future progress in in next year ok well these talks are being moderated by france and germany and mad very very effective ask you what is europe wanting to get from these talks because it seems speaking to the gentleman in kiev and moscow expectations for any kind of we forwards or are at rock bottom what was once europe sango in this universe and now if. they want to make some kind of real want will the process and election of
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events keep his will it will just just and his kind of new keeps drive this kind of i would say that this meeting is very well that will keep a signal do we go ahead with this format all week quietly kind of site so that's important for europe to get the sense is it going to sound we're all we ask and or is it still the other thing is that a matter. i have not been part of the previous negotiations and they are not normal for us so he comes up with some kind of review any with match out that statement she has been through and through the same thing she has some sense of what he she has been saying all the time and sensible things which annul been taken up gemma position has helped to negotiate my formula so if she is more cunning the air with
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that kind of wow all to me is that world peace i was them all but they were. the european partners want to see basically is that the bible process was a dead horse at the moment and bobo the evidence that appeared to suggest right now that they did it doesn't appear very viable certainly emanuel my craw has been suggesting that the time is set to get cool so it's a rush it's a pivot away from the side for sariel approach. and he seems to be the key driver in bringing any progress on a european level so i know they have a d. do you think that europe is is preparing to step back from its rapprochement with ukraine and start moving courser to russia. the outlook be too much of
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a grand line well we are looking now at something which is a mile long carry. out hootin don't business together that is not going to be proud breaking it's mulled wine to result all the problems it's what people are dying of the air it is a very kind of still serious security situation but that may be a make or break. because my role is the only one among european leaders one has the drive the mh the image a nation also use yeah how some of that lives with billions. in terms of wealth being new presidents coming with a huge political baggage open to ideas not being afraid but momentum is why that important and i do this moment actually what's on the stage or does and
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what does also to do with a leadership skills it's also to do all the work to do we want to move well with ascension and what ukraine will be slight there are rather screens all major european or let me ask a u.s. carrier and hard to how do you see things in terms of allies for ukraine or are you concerns that allies such as emmanuel microland france or indeed donald trump in the u.s. are turning away from from steadfast support if ukraine where do you see ukraine's our eyes right now. actually who says it is out in several days because who would be. e.u. e.u. meeting which will decide on continuation of the so-called sec that all sentient is against russian to settle sanctions are connected with implementation of means it greenness and from what i understand this centuries will be continued for the next
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half a year however if we analyze that international city asian is not too bad a favorable for ukraine because mccormack is making too much you know prashant statements to to have business as usual ways rosher and he's not very experienced in these kind of negotiations normandy for merkel is much more experienced definitely and by the way i believe today there was a statement from berlin said the ukraine face already done unilateral concessions in order to move forwards in negotiations and now it's time for russia to make adequate concessions from the russian side regarding clown definitely there is a scandal in ze united states so as there is a threat to the process in the u.k.
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so. this country is is they were the 2. and it's not betting it's not very hoot. for moving forward in normandy in normandy for one saying i would like to clarify it because my call it from more school mentioned so-called people's republic we need to understand that nor any people's republic with say i'm not in minsk in minsk agreement is saying nothing about this artificial from a formations this are just broadcast on proxies and the. it is very important to keep in mind these people's republic not recognized by anybody even by russia and begins is not mentioned in means agreements so we need to understand that what we what we have right now in the ukraine it's not domestic ukrainian. it's ukrainian
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russian course where is it in or brusha east to control the whole ukraine and begin let me stress unfortunately there are certain groups russian generals and officers. in support you buy. or don't buy us ok let me put that to you victor all of a charity you respond to that certainly we have the strength of feeling form of their ski hire and with your use of these people's republics the so-called people's republic see except that russian soldiers russian troops are in there and these battles are in fact a proxy for russia. well. the 2 so-called people's republic self proclaimed. indeed not recognized by any 7 states including russia but at the same time they do exist they are facts on the ground at this point of course supported by russia in various in
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a number of ways both in. support in. political support for them their. military technical military technological technical support for them so of course to so-called. people's republic are facts on the ground and yes of course they're very much tied to. russia but at the same time the vast majority of the population of these republics. vast majority are not people who came over from russia and. the people the native population there is quiet cognizant of the difficult position they have been put in by the events of the past 5 years where.
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their economic outlook is quiet negative they face. a constant threat of exemption of. conflict with ukrainian with the ukrainian army and of course a significant number of people from. that section of don't bust of the people's republic because the left has migrated into russia some have migrated into ukraine proper and of course people that are left understand the long term and it's not going to be. very soon. i'm sorry. it's a cut you off the victor of the ditch but in terms of concessions we have heard that ukraine has made you know lots of oil concessions which russia be prepared to make some concessions as well in a bid to kickstart this process towards a peaceful resolution one of the issues proposed has been holding elections in
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these 2 disputed regions which russia be prepared to withdraw military infrastructure in the suv reaches alive all the displaced people to come back and take part in these elections well 1st of all there is also a question of what europe is willing to do and how that is going to be received by russia so for example if there are concessions by both sides including gratia is brussels going to respond what. how are those sectoral sanctions should sanctions are going to be my defied in order to make moscow more. accepting of of that or more willing to make concessions so it appears that europe and of course the united states is not going to in any case whatever here even if done by us is on its way to the integration into ukraine all sanctions
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are not going to be moved because of the question of crimea which is not recognized by the west so the question remains what part of the sanctions are going to be changed or modified is that going to be acceptable for moscow how is that going to be perceived by ukraine and how is that going to reflect on the public opinion in russia because of course in russia for the past 5 years the public opinion has been mostly on the side of the so-called people's republic in the on the side of the russian speaking people in the south. in the south east or ukraine and if russia makes do. much. too many concessions in the eyes of the russian population than it would those who reflect on how the russian population the russian of those there is of you the care and me state that is of russian foreign policy in the russian president and then the russians are not
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there to make any concessions in the lot of them actually said biggest supporters of the president. let me let the sanctions are beginning to question of given it's a question of give and take and what's russia getting it's a question of give and take and. well if russia would be for example willing to move on make moves on possible elections and the getting ukrainian representatives of the ukrainian political parties to take part in free and fair elections in these areas then that would be an obvious concession from us by moscow but of course also ukraine would have to move to make a concession amnesty and amnesty the political figures the fighters and others who have participated in various activities in those republics because of these areas that it's created in the ukraine then the people that live there have to have to feel secure and they have to kill sure be sure that they're not going to be
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persecuted and they're not going to face some sort of retribution from kiev i'm sorry to cut you off we are in the dying minutes of this debate if i could turn to you and. you were wanting to respond to those points from. yes if we. look at the glad picture was cost a lot but they already made quite a lot of such that actual concessions but 8 pain that they were not recognized as such by the ukraine 1st of all i must add also by the international community just to give you a couple of examples there was an offensive in that. order in late august early september 2000 at the. rebel forces of course supported by russian troops well making really big advances who didn't want pressure on them to stop their 1st minsk agreement was signed. which thought by
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doing it to open the roof well ok fred giles. but still some kind of peace in the next few days the 1st sanctions on russia have been welded so that was very what what what but most of us thought was a major concession one looking more over ukrainian to get a. second clear the whole all the time. has been trying to hold back the effort like all the rebels who just wish what why go under only at the beginning and what that far damage rather than what they have will be there secondly every conception can be all from the point of view it is a last will be the last empty elections yes in principle. 3 well elections but then you can put the kind of conditions well this elections
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which will eventually be raising the bar higher and higher like return will do all of this plays the bill they should control the border this and that so. basically even as it would really to move on something tangible they will find a form but right now we're not talking you know who will be existing and we're still trying to get to this place ok we have one minute left if i could get a one word answer from all 3 of you are you want to mystic or pessimistic that we're on the right excitement excuse really i need to intervene so 1st of all i need to say that elections couldn't be done occupied if that's 1st and 2nd i am a bit shocked maybe by what i know was saying the sections were introduced against russia after m h 17 was shot down by a russian
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a rocket and after our show started intervention in za don't bust and end of august 2014 russia send regular troops so the sectoral sanctions which interests us so i am not sure how can we be talking about russian made concessions russian made concessions by sending regular troops to ukraine into some 1014 and 2 summers and 15 that's why i am not very optimistic because i see mr putin actually he doesn't want peace he would like to do sentients but he doesn't want to stop zouk war where russia is an aggressor unfortunately ok and finally of action here optimistic or pessimistic of a solution it is likely a very will be joint communique at the end of the summit but at the same time. we should not expect any major progress from this event ok and unfortunately we are out of time on this discussion i'd like to thank all of my guests all leskie heart
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and victor all of it and. thank you to you for watching you can see the program again any time of his in the web site out of syria dot com or head to our facebook page facebook dot com for massage 80. inside story join the conversation on twitter our handle is in state story and i'm more he'd seen tonight for me and the entire team in doha and spoke by. on counting the cost $48.00 trillion dollars to save the planet can call the
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trading bring big polluters to heel silicon valley of the algorithms that discriminates against women and people of color plus putin shown by the west completes his pivot to the east counting the cost on al-jazeera. from the ounces here in london prove team special guests in conversation when your government is going up what do you do on trump day it's uninterrupted we have a deep space and in this teligent service whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they want to touch trees color as it needs locate black people for as long as we've been fighting back have been labeled as terrorist studio to be unscripted on al-jazeera.
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in doha the top stories on edge of the world anti doping agency has banned russia from the next olympics and the football world cup the committee met in switzerland to impose a 4 year ban on russia using its flag anthem and team names from a range of sporting events that means some athletes could compete under a neutral flag a government sponsored doping scheme was revealed 5 years ago only willingness is following this story from london he says the ruling doesn't change much for russia but significant and it's important it covers all sporting events however it doesn't change that much about the situation we've already been in for the past 5 years after russia effectively poisoned its own winter olympics in sochi the widescale
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state sponsored corruption was of course on covered from that position on words it's been about the politics of the situation there are very few if anybody who believes that russia isn't doping because the question is what are people going to do about it and in this instance it's this perceived 4 year ban but it's a ban really on the fly and of russia will have the same situation we've had in rio . olympics in that there will be neutral athletes from russia that are effectively a russian team that situation is going to continue the hosting of events becomes a big deal as well russia has some big world sports events coming up in the next few years and it's whether they can find a loophole over the court of arbitration for sport to actually continue to host those events we know that big figures in world sport want to keep russia in the game rather than push them away from it despite this clear evidence of don't police in new zealand say there's no sign of a.

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