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tv   The Stream 2019 Ep 196  Al Jazeera  December 10, 2019 11:32am-12:01pm +03

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police have suggested it's unlikely they'll find any more survivors another 31 people were injured a number of those suffered severe bans in india a controversial citizenship bill has now passed its 1st stage in parliament the proposed law will now head to india's upper house it's geared towards granting citizenship to those fleeing religious persecution but it excludes muslims some say it's the governing hindu nationalist parties latest attempt at sidelining muslims in india well those are the headlines do join me for more news here on al-jazeera after the stream stay with us. we were told that between russia has been addressed by turkey listen what is the proposal. for a couple on you know we meet with newsmakers and the stories that matter.
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and you're in the stream today we're kicking off a weeklong look at the global impact of colonial colonialism and how does colonialism shape the wealth that we actually live in and what ways has it influenced your life so many of you have already answered that question with hash tag because colonialism and i'll be sharing your responses throughout the week so join our conversation on twitter or live on you tube. ok my jaffery story university of amsterdam and you are interested. by the early 19th century a vast majority of the world's nations have been colonized by european powers the empire building avarice or striven exploitation of states and their populations
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continue to influence the world today from language religion and cultural beliefs to an economic systems in 7 countries colonial practices included slavery genocide and the creation of political and ethnic divisions that remain to this day others have argued that western call lies zation in some instances benefited colonized populations with the rule of law and also infrastructure so joining us to talk about colonialism history and how it's remembered today and bangalore india priyamvada gopal professor of english at the university of cambridge she's also the author of insurgent empire anti-colonialism and british descent in the u.s. state of indiana. an associate professor of comparative literature cinema and media studies at indiana university and in lisbon portugal. president of the association of history teachers in portugal welcome all of you to the stream and i want to start with our community because they have so much to say so i'll start with this
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tweet from someone whose handle is the humble maid they write colonialism has affected my life because we still proudly use english names because country injuries start with european conquest as the 1st historical intrigue date and because many people can't name 20 facts about their tribe of origin so priya i'll turn to you with this because this is what you've studied this is what you teach is the really big question to start with how is colonialism colonialism impacted your life but i want to do just that what would you give as your answer. well i always begin my or lecture. you're telling my students that i wouldn't be in that room if it wasn't for naught macaulay's 835 minutes which created what he called a race of people not english blood and color but in other ways so
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english education in india was intended to create a class of interpreter between the colonial government and the vast indian population and i belong my ancestors belong to that breed of people as it were english in every way but blood and color so the very fact that i speak english and i'm speaking english to you now and that i teach english is intimately bound up with colonialism and this is something i always insist my students understand when i'm in the room we go i'm just thinking about how we think of ourselves in the world and somehow the influences of colonisation still feel so frewen as priya was discussing you were born in angola yes was at the time it was a it was a colony of portugal so that makes you african as well as put your case do you feel i'm. not much actually ok so this concept of how do you think of yourself in the world from the portuguese perspective as
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a as a country that had colonies how does that impact the way that you navigate the world you think about the world. well to begin with as you said i was born in one goal when it was a portuguese colony and it marked my existence for sure because while i was there until i was 10 around 10 i didn't really. realize our much in a segregated society i leave i mean detail was the official tally was that it wasn't significant society and i only came became conscious of these when i actually when i returned portugal after 1975 and later on studying in 40 schools public schools state schools and. being cool leagues from angola and mozambique from the former colonies which. in and goal itself i didn't
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have in school so that says a lot about the system that was in place and i mean to shape me so my. conscience of portuguese colonialism in collusion in general. was a late. came later in my life let's say what i wanted from having been on the finals at home. well. to begin with. i didn't really question the way society was organized in angola. so i didn't never questions why we leave didn't. you know i lived in the center on law in a place that was called new lease going at the time and always one. of those 2 is the 2nd biggest city in angola or the 2nd most important city and goal and actually we lived in a white sheet only the servants. were african or black.
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and. i never questioned it and it was sort of it i thought it was normal when we traveled around i saw the i sold the africans. the different tribes that constitute an all. india villages leaving their lifes and for me it was like. they made part of the landscapes imo but they didn't it really didn't come to me that they were the real inhabitants of that place. myself. so i hear your story and i want to share one more this from a couple of people who mentioned this one via tweet one via video comments and clearly people are on the same wavelength here so 7 this person sitting on twitter says because cornell is still exists in the economic grounds we're getting into specifics here he writes i have asked and world bank and that's why many africans
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risk their lives seeking a better life outside of the continent even though africa is the richest continent in terms of resources culture history and a dynamic population you can see where where this person's views are on that but someone else takes up on that idea about the economic ground and seeing the legacy of colonialism there this is alderman young he's an assistant professor at princeton university and here's what he told us. the majority of private capital is allocated to developed countries europe north america japan and then whatever small sliver of capital is left capital the highest risk premium is allocate it to the former colleagues and i think this is reminiscent of the colonial plight into their case the point consequence of this is that sudan's largest our most profitable export actually is the sudanese people themselves who dance human capital the best of which is professionalism laborers go to your north america the middle east and are forced to work there to earn a living because of
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a lack of economic opportunities all this carries often have many resonances with the appearance of the 19th century of and slave men and then the quality of market i'll tell a lot in there but the economy and currency really make of that what i'm going to. i think i had. a year of get up i was just going to say that it's actually go and take because for me it's not so much british colonialism nigeria was british as india was. uganda and ghana was but for me growing up i think it's the american colonialism which is more of our own very early is in media imperialism kind of perspective that are actually spoke marbury to me because very time i came to my sense of myself as an individual and you know it was an independent country so i really didn't have
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a colonial experience and know from reading from study from history that if you're as a colony and if i don't speak english nigeria is functional but i guess that for me it is the fight that are even absent you know is becoming independent there was a lot of these other dimension to the socialist piece which was dominant about american media so mind being in america i don't know that it's terribly a result of that but i guess that part of the reason why we talk about colonialism to be isn't so much it is of course because of the colonial history but also because i'm going as as taking over the american empire the fact that empire is actually after all isn't in in practice and so we need in america to find a people who are not very what to look for without my our candidate our that is a function of that look at what we don't. i can't remember any more. but. that's what happens remove on pray
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you get what you had to go ahead no i just i just wanted to agree that one way in which we all share the legacy of the european empire was the age of empire is that we most of us live in capitalist economies and capitalism is very much tied up with the imperial project and although it had very profound our cultural and racial guy venture you can't really understand colonialism without understanding capitalism so even the sense that colonialism was in the past i think is likely misguided because if you live in a capitalist economy which most of the world does then you are very directly every single day engaging with the legacy the afterlife as i prefer to call it the afterlife the ongoing lie if of colonialism of the european imperial project so i was just agreeing with up in the air that that is quite vital and that in some ways
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the mantle of colonialism does shift from the european empires to america but we also need to be attentive to the ways in which it is now shifting to parts of the post-colonial world the ways in which brazil china and india are starting to play a role as you know in some ways as as colonizers involved in massive amounts of appropriation and resource extraction i just want to actually into this conversation and that is looking at the legacy of what european nations left behind in the developing world and kind of judging that in terms of was anything left behind that was positive how we build on something that's been a positive legacy something came to mind and it's often used as an example a humorous example of what potentially could. be a positive angle i want to show you a little clip from 1979 film called the life of brian have
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a look here my laptop it is cool to find study of colonialism from this tweeter up here and let me just play you 20 seconds i have a listen. i have ever given up in front. of. the trash oh yeah sorry i should remember she used to be like you know i'll grant you yeah a sanitation of true things around and i've got a rope which for your obviously not proud of it i was going to. prayer so this is you know i think this is this is this is the idea that you have that terrible people but they brought up this this is and it goes on and on and on and on. a 2nd yes well it's the railways claim right so in britain if you raise the question of empire people will say yes but the railway is wall to
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rob me the great guy and then the. anti colonial writer and campaigner had a very good riposte to those he said you know the british didn't build railways in africa or india so that africans and indians could visit their friends they did it as part of a resource extraction a project the railways in africa invariably ledge to boards from which the materials could be shipped out in india it was part of an. administrative apparatus so just because certain things got left behind then they got used by the legatees of colonialism doesn't mean that they were done with the benefit of of colonial subjects in mind we have a tendency to take something that happened and make it positive but that doesn't mean it was it was put there with a positive intention. well you might see that. so go ahead make me art ok no i was just going to i was just going to say that that comparison that
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you see there on the like a riot with the roman empire is it's an unfair because the romans that they that there they are patient and then colonization will it spread over a little a little period and also they didn't have the means that european nations and in the 19th century so the colonisation of the ninety's had wasn't much faster and much brutal much more brutal to my point of view and also the other point i wanted to just to talk about was about the you talked about brazil and seeing brazil is a very good case of a country where the declination still asked to be done inside brazil because there is a. there is obviously in brazil a very very obvious division between the era paean these people that descended from from europeans and the others and it's very structural and i think.
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all a lot of these let in american conservative good example of something in the ulf way between. between the 2 ideas of colonialism and unfortunately now i think you have in brazil a government that is on the side on that let's put it that way and european side of things you know that you know next to. these 2 points out was allowed to lie down in fact couldn't hear anything even the one actually on the tree and the roads and the sanitation it is more than anything and the indian around that she's not. into me and he actually sees that money the east the liberal side of colonialism not going to be easy to win so you can only think properly by a man but there was also something going on which was that i didn't want. really you look at mission everywhere ok how to become what or how to have these it yeah
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oh been an individual which was not even then europe to start witsel in fact the ideas also end up going on here isn't brought modernity but that it was impossible for him anything he said to operate and i guess that point of the argument the reference that a premier drew from what irony and there's a energy of a lot of defendants are all in his book properly simply entered more dense in africa views that in fact i want to call him here isn't that it where africa can really just because you actually were already becoming modern who actually were trying to do those things that will use him if i don't go in there is indeed was to satisfy those people so as much our idea was later already in west africa for instance it deliberately that tend to become what africans were before my straight out quotes but africa is one of the bones but i don't think that at least the last . before you jump in there before you jump in because i want to give you something i want to give you something priya because our community i would say agrees with
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most of you on this point but there are a few people who raise the counter argument and so i want to pose this to you this 1st person says as we discuss this legacy of colonialism please consider voices from ethiopia and liberia i was shocked to my at the opie and powell wish to they were also colonized to benefit from the infrastructure that the british did after she stepped foot in nairobi so that's one person's perspective here's another this person here an example is really interesting because in fact a lot of anti colonialists organized around the invasion of ethiopia in $835.00 ethiopia is very beloved in a kind of pan african context because it was the only non colonized african nation and had a selassie stood up to the european powers and ethiopian independence and it europeans very zealous guarding off its independence in spite of anti colonial struggles across the world i think it's a it's a really kind of factual side year that you need at colonialism in order to bring
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infrastructure and development i mean if you want if you you know if you think that it's following to have massive amounts of land expropriation as kenya. and massive amounts of bloodshed and explore exploitation in order to get a couple of airports and railway is that seems like an extraordinary price to have to pay as our king was saying a few minutes ago there were tendencies and lots of cultures to head in in good directions in interesting directions and all of those possibilities have now been lost to us and we all believe this notion that only through your up could we have arrived at good things how do we know what was lost how do we know what where the world might have gone where ethiopia might have gone without the intervention of europe in the form of the italian invasion and subsequent. you know it was prey like many parts of the world were 2 european influence i like that you raised how
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will we know how how would we know of course because in hindsight who knows but i wanted to share this because you saw this on your screen just a minute ago so i want to share this because it's another person with that perspective that guy says colonialism brought a lot of development in the colonies the white man should have stayed for 100 years more in the colonies for instance in 24 years the black man has been in charge in south africa it's been full of corruption and it is another form of. people it's people online believe this but i would love to hear your response what would you tell them you're a professor how would you then educate them. well i mean i think one thing to say is this that could only alyson relied on corruption it relied on local elites in india it relied on local elites in parts of africa and what has happened and c.l.r. james the great caribbean writer explains this that what happened is that when england or france or belgium pulled out of asian african countries it's those
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collaborating corrupt elites who ended up taking over and colonialism didn't just disappear i mean you know. all of former colonial powers continue to have huge stakes in. their in their former colonies and neo colonialism is something that we haven't talked about very much the ways in which you can only listen continue and in certain ways with the help of local elites so you know you're talking about white men and black man i mean 1st of all that is outright racist but also it's just it bears no resemblance to how history actually operates a and it seems to me extraordinary that people can talk still in racial terms as though the white man was somehow genetically equipped to to make the world as an outlet and what is the argument here as a matter of class of africans of routinely. it capitalist system very exploitative system it meant mom was the president of south africa not what is the media now
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yesterday said in certain book after 2001 when the american as aggressive he was an investor or an actually one member of one of the mining companies so look what is written matter when it's capitalism as a matter of our i think. what i look for it's the function of capitalism it's absolute nonsense present that that's going on south africa is going on energy or is going to mean india we go i want to go chilean because this is really important i actually want to go to the job that you do as a teacher because you are looking at. education system in portugal and looking at how colonialism has been taught and wanting to shape little bit i feel that would be good place for us to wrap up our conversation in how do you teach colonialism to a country to a nation that used to have colonies. well that said in a bigger issue actually it's a big show right now because we are on the we were on the last 3 years on the
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process of changing the curricula and trying to make it more open to these kind of these questions instead of having a clue or more closed narratives and the measure of the fact is that i don't think it's an issue with these 3 teachers because i think most of them are actually quite well prepared to. teach indies a new way let's say but there is a large part of the society and a lot of people from my age and older and from $45.00 to let's say 70 and plus that were taught a certain tailless that's never a t.v. and for them it's really really very difficult to suddenly to come to terms with the fake that and then they react to. come to terms with the fact that colonialism other negli face and for most of them actually they don't refuse it.
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plainly and and they just go into the defensive and say we haven't done anything good we haven't left anything that so all the portuguese. colonial history is just a nice story of mexico's and slavery. and suffering no no no because and then they come they say you know we need to fight these we need to fight back but the reality is that i think. the just the fact that this discussion is in the open is a very good thing because let's say that until 15 years ago we wouldn't even discuss these issues and never did was there and we wouldn't even think of it. and we would just consider that's not to all of us such a trail of turn of history might have had a hard to avoid talking about you have to talk about it at some point how can you help us talk about it to draw what scott houseless off to a real interesting stop middle path i'll end with a suite from. someone who explains why we should learn about it reno says learning about colonialism through reading research and life experience has helped shaped my
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curiosity about the world my constant striving for knowledge on the origins of wealth inequality and power thank you to priya to act in the ad also to make el for discussing colonialism such a huge topic but we managed to drill it down and really give some excellent examples we continue with our conversation on tuesday as we continue with our special week of shows on colonialism could the pain of colonialism be genetically inherited we'll look at the debate among scientists thanks for watching and i will see you on the i.
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i think stories generate fountains of headlines these protests are saying down with the system and down with all of the parts with different angles from different perspectives just because we came to prison doesn't mean rights stopped at the gate separate the spin from the facts. jumps on stories without taking down the misinformation from the journalism it's about telling the stories of those human beings on the ground with the listening post on al-jazeera. they've been through the whole 5 years a political deadlock since the threats of referendum and the n.r.a. is still utterly divided will the general election all december that's both his old anything can boris johnson get the rx it done and where does the u.k. go from here follow the u.k. general election on al-jazeera. in cameroons with his. plastic everywhere.
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but if bottles can be fishing boats. and bubble gum wellington boots what can be done with this plague of palmas. thrives reimagining plastic. on al-jazeera. culture a dance thrives here every day generations of tibetans continue to brace and maintain their cultural heritage it's a reminder of who they are and whether. this is a suburb of the india capital new delhi so be refugees. since going to 64. refugees because india hasn't signed up to the going to 51 the un convention on refugee tibetans here. to the indian system so they become self-sufficient starting a business is looking for work independently but it's not enough.
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that the international court of justice to defend her country's treatment over. there and this is al jazeera live from also coming up reports a democrats in the u.s. are preparing to announce a formal articles of impeachment against president donald trump. india's lower house of parliament passes a controversial bill that sets religion as the criteria for granting citizenship to foreigners. and police in new zealand open an investigation into the circumstances surrounding multiple deaths and the white house.


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