tv Inside Story 2020 Ep 36 Al Jazeera February 5, 2020 8:32pm-9:00pm +03
last year a palestinian teenager has been killed by israeli fire during protests in the occupied west bank the shooting happened in hebron the palestinian health ministry says 17 year old model had died was killed when a bullet went through his heart israeli military says its troops opened fire after a palestinian threw a fireball turkey's friends intercept typer to one has threatened further action against the syrian government if its forces in adelaide don't hold back the president was speaking 2 days after 7 turkish soldiers and a civilian were killed by syrian government shelling in a province were upset with the headlines on al-jazeera i'll have more news for you in 30 minutes time coming up next inside story.
could israel in sudan soon become friends with israel and his plans for the normalization of ties catching sudan's transitional government off guard in the one hostile nations are they moving closer together and what can be achieved this is inside story. out there welcome to the program i'm nic plug so sudan and israel have historically had frosty relations they have no formal ties and sudan is one of the strongest supporters of a palestinian state but on monday israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu he met with the sudanese general abilify. in uganda on the agenda the normalization of ties between the 2 countries the following day behind defended the talks and also
reiterated sudan's commitment to the palestinian cause the issue is dividing opinion in the capital call to. the no sooner had he said to me when i was sending this message the head of the sovereign council. well shame is for sudanese to sit at the same table as benjamin netanyahu. and i don't mean islami we are with the muslim and arab worlds and the muslim and arab world both have ties with israel so i believe there's no harm in establishing relations with israel that will be built on mutual interests and the guaranteed rights of the palestinian people to establish a palestinian state well the head sudan sovereign council which is part of a power sharing deal between the military and civilian parties and while the prime minister. welcome the statement about his meeting he's stressed that under the draft constitution decisions on foreign affairs must be made by the cabinet to ensure that they are transparent and accountable.
i. r let's bring in our guest straight away right here in the studio we have walid who's a president of the sudan policy for an expert on governance and international development from khartoum in a sudan via skype. who's filmmaker and activist and in west jerusalem we have a long legal a former director general of the foreign ministry of israel welcome all to the program when we don't like to start here in the studio what's going on here are both elements of the power sharing government on the same page about this i believe that the military council or the military officers in the sovereign council has completely succeeded in co-opting the civilian component i have no doubt that the civilians already know about this so they weren't surprised by it as there is a made up saluted not it's just they're just playing a small gimmick on the masses he had but i totally believe that the
day they are in full support of. yet we question the extent to which. a statement could have any in a situation how to support institutional popular support they member there are some nuances here given so done for historical record it's not now the difference between civilians and military officers the difference is between sin terrorist activity in elites who in the past 6040 years have succeeded in many pilate in the process of nation building in the center you mean the elites who lived along the river nile in the center and the river 9 and these these are the ones who used. to many people into politics mean the back of nationalist islamists and i was seen a sadist. so at the expense of me no any you need. to
find that for even southern sudan before it seceded. that they they have aligned themselves with the other a bald. now they they don't they don't feel that they have any support neither along the military they don't have any resources they used to i mean the use their monopoly over the military to. i mean to say. put subside but if any and now they feel they have no alternative but to move from extremism to apportion is ok when you say that the power sharing government does not have any institution support they are the institution only. for this plan they don't have any student support for this kind of a move i think this kind of a move is very blunt and i don't think the forces of freedom and team are going to
. sell it easily to the to the popular masses ok well it's good point at which to bring in had huge group are there in khartoum you were protesting long before protests started really what's your assessment of this threat from the popular point of view. yeah exactly what many people are saying the sudanese people are anonymously with the rights of the occupied people. to have their all dependent state with a calf and 'd this has been how most of the people street see it it's it's something that's not debatable and see that and to change that you need to have a long debate the stars on the ground so to actually come and see and go and go all over that and do something completely different is a big a big no. to level one and that this is something that we're on specially after
revolutions but to go in for russian and freedom we feel like we're more connected to other rights and people who are fighting for their rights and that makes the world so regardless of the arab muslim. conversation this is a people's conversation and we're definitely in this week people are all about fighting for right not so definitely people are standing against but not on one side on the side of their head or high on himself. yeah and then the of the other thing is the idea that for han comes back and does things but they use cities during the time of the day to shift where he thinks he can use parental i know better than i am an elitist i know better what that country needs and i'm going to do what's right and using the same military dictatorship. mentality that they've been willing to country for 30 years and and this which doesn't work but also now this gave momentum for people to rise and be angry against it and the
freedom for change also like it was said in not stand and make people change their minds of this point and the same thing for freedom and change and for the prime minister and his cabinet so definitely there is unanimous stand against this mentality experimental mentality that comes from the center and if the leadership pursues with this policy what will happen. and the people are already talking about going out in the streets and protesting. right now i actually really doubt it because they will be the people's or the community of business in sudan has been. they've been going out in the street they've been. in the government itself there's a lot of people really connected to the street so at this point if something like this happens it will actually bring about a lot of response. i'm sure all right let's bring in the israeli perspective on
nail from the from the israeli point of view certainly and that know whose interests of people to believe that the arab world is leaning towards israel. yes here we have to think is happening simultaneously with elections. we are in inside the election month already in netanyahu wants to impress the public and strengthen is image as a diplomatic logistician and definitely such a visit to a big muslim country very close to israel neighboring egypt may then impact. all current of denial and as it patients later hardly reach the ear and the eye of the israeli in citizens so it left an impact it was very important to an attorney of the other thing happening is that the trump lent
a netanyahu bed early deadly needs the votes of the arab countries next week already in the security council in the vote of the trump lead the 2 african countries on the council now south africa in the share netanyahu hopes that the strengthening of the contacts with africa in general the african union will instruct its representative in the security council not to vote against the plan these are the things that are important to an attorney out at the moment by lead too early we can help sudan a lot but i don't think sudan can help us a lot except the issue of flights about above sudan so the interest here is mostly in the international and regional implications and what is your sense is your sense of the african union will go down that route. 1st of all with no
very sort of the vote is on tuesday my sense is the time now will not get the votes of the african countries. the reason is that. the reaction of the slum equal arab league. europa russia was negative to down american play and i don't see africa standing with while the whole world is against or even negative to the. all right well it certainly would be a big turnaround if it happened to israel officially has diplomatic relations with at the moment only 2 arab countries egypt signed a peace treaty with israel back in 1989 and 15 years later jordan established diplomatic ties that muddied the arab consensus on what's known as the 3 no 2 israel after the 967 arab israeli war that's no to pace no to recognition and no to
negotiations well in 2002 a saudi brokered arab peace initiative offered to normalize ties with israel in exchange for a plan to solve the conflict with the palestinians now saudi arabia the u.a.e. that's united arab emirates and bahrain that reportedly quietly cozying up to israel and the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu he made a surprise visit to amman back in 2018 if sudan does normalize ties with israel it would have huge implications for africa as we've been discussing as well many african nations vote in favor of pro palestinian resolutions at the u n. do you think it's possible we might see a slowdown lean towards israel by arab states it likely to happen that the 3 noses we talked about there are consigned to history. i'm not an expert percy in israeli conflict but i think. america not having a very clear is throughout the year for the mean that even the middle east north
africa it's very likely to be. persuaded to be taken on board 'd by israeli politicians and i don't think that's going to help the arabs come to some sort of a unanimous needless to say reach some level of uniformity about just about the good that can be developed by the arabs and the africans towards this are you but since we're talking about sudan he had a i think it's very it's very ironic that the so-called the oil is of democracy these ladies the it only chooses to deal with dictators or $330.00 in leaders and this is specific moment it's dealing with genocide that's remember israel mobilize its lobby in america and it helped put together a platform called save that for and it was. it was helping very much
helping very much the cause of. that for years it even give. refuge to some civilians who came to is not here and now it's dealing with the very the very pair so none it is that is accused of having committed genocide in darfur so it's very shameful for netanyahu it's it's very shameful even for. the president. to to follow and constitutional move and try to push this case in and instead a month or so then needs to come to peace with itself and its neighbors it needs to do justice to the people of the pitifully it's. needs to adopt some democratic proceedings that will make any move in the future sustainable whichever move so that makes it has to do to gain some sustainability it has to follow some some
very clear path now if you look at sudan for so long it was just a proxy state now it has developed into being a fully fledged proxy state prior to this city deem it was moved by some arab states in some islamic extremist action and now it's being moved into some very opportune is that action neither of these is helpful to sudan right if we can bring in gain true to say that normalizing relations with israel would open the door to greater possibilities for sudan and to move away from sanctions of this this feeling of sudan being a pariah state but is that something that you say that people sudan would never accept. yeah there's no way to nice people except that actually cities people are
really angry one of the things we really actively about the prime minister the government in general is instead of trying to find ways where those people are saddam hussein these people can actually be on the forefront of trying to slow economic problems and all our other issues within that country he is actually looking outwards he's looking towards the states to europe to the gulf he's been trying to get money from outside as if the only way to do is to get foreign money and the moment that maybe genda that's when we start having to deal with other people and that's when we have to do the support that so there is there is this thing we should not compromise ship into beginning to try to figure out before we ask. for help and there is a belief that needs people especially after their pollution and everybody come together that we can do it we actually can solve the basic problems so that starve that if a structure starved rally or there needs to be done by us and owned by us and we
don't want that to be owned by outsiders ringback and that's that's the disconnect that's happening right now where the government is just really really trying to. connect more to the i.m.f. to the well banks. and to solve our economic issues and i think this is this today so to think that you can give up. basic idea like people fighting for other people's rights and standing with what i have in the world but the truth is not going to happen right now and i feel like to actually make us change our minds you have to tell us why why explain to us why this is there that. they add that people are going to get their full human rights so i give it away it's. only when we're seeing a woman say that. sudan has always been called the heart of africa and sudan stands in a way where it's connected to both the arab world and back to. so if sudan ever
stops being a proxy like many people said if it stops playing other people's agendas and we can actually control our own country and have a government a movement that goes forward thinking about sudan is in and state where we can stand we can sit down with a very in issues that. are nations. and i think this is a natural say that but but right now they've just been in trouble too much. into the idea of just rocks and governments ok 'd i can tell you some very large very thought i said let our other guest i had huge i want to come in on this one if i was not with you in the studio yes i mean but i mean if you look at sudan there are there are 2 american ambassadors that were killed in sudan. there are
many european tourists that we're assessing needed in sudan. where i mean of course the israeli security has failed the attempt of some extremist groups to pass some military somewhere pons through to some you had this groups so i mean going back to what her douche is saying he's absolutely right in the sense that if we can just come to peace within ourselves we will be helpful both of the palestinians and to the israelis if we can just control our buckboard that is we don't want i want to land this antique learn to be used by some secular and religious cycle funds to play which and to pass which ever again that they want or so let us discount to peace with ourselves and we'd be we would be helpful to humanity at large but the way things are heading i think this listening please go ahead yes come in please. please please let me come back
to your original question about israel and the middle east or if you want israel and africa because the founders of fears read. any md integration of israel in the middle east political social cultural integration and the idea of peace was that peace between israel and the arabs and israel and the palestinians will enable israeli integration with the surrounding with with middle eastern countries this has been dropped about 15 years ago their idea of peace is not iran anymore nobody in israel and the politicians the jewish politicians is speaking about peace with the palestinians today so did basic assumption is that since we will not have peace with the
palestinians then mostly world the arab world will never really accept us politically so the changes we are aiming at economic technological maybe some intelligence relations and supply the arab countries african countries will slow african countries with the basic economic needs in order to improve relations by lead to early but this does not mean that israel is aiming to be part of the middle east we just forgot about it we behaved with the european countries their leadership of israel today sees israel as a western country part of europe if you want part of the united states but definitely not part of the middle east this sense to be explained even with egypt and jordan that we have really stable peace it's based on the security in some.
economic technological issues lot of on political support the public doesn't like us look in egypt look in jordan and definitely not cultural relations no tourism so so there is a different approach in israel we are rich if you want sudan if you want any other poor country on the globe we can give you what you need you will normalize relations with the us economy quickly because most we cannot get. the very very briefly i want to be along the lines of what mr daly saying i think whatever is happening now is just going to extend have been intended of politics in sudan in a very negative way because it's very obvious that the forces of freedom and keen this thing has only exposed the forces of freedom and king and it tends to the extent to which they are very do psion they didn't have any sense of direction they
don't have any vision and they don't have any modern or into it they don't to stand on any more intellectual guns it's not harming han as much by the way because what hans-peter that is on the is supposed to be 3 it's and what about a tim he makes to prolong this he has to go through some of the poverty of popular support and it's not going to happen right. the bottom line is can sudan find a way forward find a way to peace and prosperity and being welcome back into the world without outside interference without outside interference interference from other nations. no i mean in the end you are are going to need the world we live today you are good to give you that. help but it has. ours so the idea is when it has been our own terms and 2 it has to start with the neighbors and slowly walk up to
the world and i feel like we can be in do that if we start to look inwards and then go upwards it's just the style of what you do and then when you ask you don't you don't take everything that's given only to say things that actually go along your own agenda and so you're not paying other people's. so to me that's very important to me that's why with this issue of the. issue i feel like the way it was explained very well by your other guest i feel like ones that. feel that they got their rights the sudanese can move and be like ok now weekend off. not for the it's all. right and. one final word from you so what we've become very secure of ice in the sense that it's no longer an emotional but we want to move beyond it tony can he oriented any form into policy oriented to reform and and people are handling this
issue of. conflict in a none of it tony can manage what what is it that can help tabulates that he didn't previously it was more really just lee or even security in the back east and the not admission the distance it was more of a thought he can now we are looking at things the way i do wish and mr hadley in doing it i mean with us where we have a way to scale by which we we are looking at things and we want to help move things in a positive direction or it would have to leave it there well lead to madiba thanks very much and i'll only will join is there from jerusalem in ahead you can we appreciate it very much thank you very much indeed thank you to you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion just go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com ford slash a.j. inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at
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