tv Inside Story 2020 Ep 110 Al Jazeera April 20, 2020 10:32am-11:00am +03
affected by the pandemic workers in sectors including farming in information technology will be allowed to return to their jobs but will be expected to wear masks and to maintain their social distancing us all prices have dropped to their lowest level for 2 decades as concerns of a coronavirus eclipsed a deal to cut out but overall demand has plummeted as a result of lock downs and travel restrictions and just a bit of other news at least 16 people killed in canada's worst of a mass shooting a 51 year old male suspect is dead after a series of attacks in several towns in the eastern province of nova scotia there you go you're up to date with all the headlines on al-jazeera inside story is next as corona virus continues to devastate the united states the race to the white house goes on joe biden has all but secured his place is the democratic nominee but can he beat john trump joining us for continuing coverage of the u.s.
election 2020 on al-jazeera. what's the reason for the arrest of democracy leaders in hong kong 15 activists face court as more concerns are raised about the city. could this trigger more turmoil this is inside story. hello welcome to the program i'm burnitz the coronavirus pandemic has interrupted the anti-government protests that gripped hong kong for much of last year but the tension that triggered the unrest hasn't gone away nor have the fears the beijing is eroding freedoms that were guaranteed in the 1997 handover from british rule. in
the latest crackdown police arrested 15 leading activists and accused them of organizing unlawful protests last year they include politicians a media tycoon and martin lee known as hong kong's father of democracy their supporters say the arrest of china's latest attempt to silence the pro-democracy protest movement al-jazeera is pollen reports from hong kong. there has been much international interest and what is happening here in hong kong or the u.k. and the u.s. government have questioned the validity of these arrests particularly mentioning martin leno he has is very well known both in the international community and of course here in hong kong and very well respected not just amongst the democracy camp but also among people who support beijing he has said that he doesn't believe our he doesn't blame the hong kong government for his arrest he says that he
believes it's beijing that is behind the directive to round up these a prominent pro-democracy activists he also says that this is all part of the communist party trying to tighten its control on hong kong now as far as reaction from the probating camp here that has been mostly muted there mostly just echoed what the hong kong government has said mainly being that this is all being done in accordance to the law and this is not politically motivated but i must mention quite an interesting developments now that chinese state media has mentioned the arrest of all these prominent people on the micro-blogging site that way both the chinese government doesn't usually like any kind of discussion on how comes to mock received democracy movements or anyone to do with democracy in hong kong but they seem to have allowed much chatter about this and predictably the kind of comments we're seeing are mainly from people who support the arrests who are calling for greater restrictions on hong kong and also are calling for greater support of hong
kong's police the arrests follow remarkable comments by the chinese government's 2 main agencies in the territory the hong kong and macau affairs office denounced pro-democracy politicians for stolen proceedings in the legislative council and beijing's liaison office said it's not bound by a clause in the mini constitution that boss of direct interference in the city's fast after issuing contradictory statements on kong's government eventually supported mainland china's position. let's introduce the panel and in hong kong we have martin lee the founding chairman of the democratic party of hong kong and a former legislative counsel and a barrister in china's capital beijing and the moc senior research fellow at the center for china and globalization and in singapore victor teo assistant professor
at the affiliated affiliated faculty with the china studies program at the university of hong kong welcome to you all martin lee 1st of all why these arrests now what's the timing significance and why people like you. margaret be old school if you like of the democracy movement not the younger activists that have been arrested previously when i'm sure they don't like us. they serve and. you know the whole. you know the former chairman of my party homepage that. the 3 of us together with instant chin the former chief secretary of hong kong. to cater to cable for and to see men 3 male members of the game of 4 are now charged together but to the left of the moon bill are clearly going to start very repression and. they want to.
do so a few years back because in june 240 the central government published a white paper in symon different name which is so simple government has come through. wrong. now compare that to the actual pains 122 systems in 1984 where bieber to it would be one computer systems how come people really harm come with a high degree of autonomy which means except for here's the defense of his own home with a 1000 interviews he helps to did he. get to be the ones to implement his new part here. do one country 2 systems a sim 2 government ruling with comprehensive jurisdiction no
this is a totally different concept. please is it a lead to read this please the moment you can tell us please do you can see everything now which is happening in hong kong goes in depth or which is a departure from the blue print stepped out on kong for 50 years this is a pretty 3rd year in beijing who really wants. comprehension over and it's a problem and they mocked do you see that our is the central government taking off the globe sunny's now prepared for a much more robust intervention in the governing of hong kong. well i think we're are we. any sort of government concern or are what we want certainly a lot nearer with whatever we want all. that clearly is for the people. as the facts or lines that lie before the viewers of the words aiden's
firm where we saw one once in finals well. you know that you know i think more roommates of the weeks that there have been certainly. but i think it's the recognize soon we are 20 plus years or. any we will fran what i think it's so far so we're concept here is national security and you know a year or 2 years ago we might not have thought of health care public health issues as a national security issue. i think it was very different because the world. so on the one hand i think to consider rigidity urines to. a strict interpretation at one point find that never choose my own line necessarily
be the most realistic i think ranma since one country 2 systems is very much in place and if your child victor it wasn't supposed to be like this was it wasn't hong kong supposed to be able to look after his own affairs for 50 years or are we seeing a remodelling of the one country 2 systems idea. i you know personally i'd been thing as a remolding of the one country 2 systems idea i think it's an adjustment so i tend to kind of agree with what andy has just said. hong kong is you know 2223 years into this new era and i think local realities have changed mainland chinese development have haste and i think from beijing split spec if they are very worried about a couple of things and one of the things is the perceived linking up of the pro-democracy movement we've falsus perceived to be hostile to china.
so this is from the beijing's perspective and i think the. trying to get best to not change the system but at the same time to ensure that chinese interests are looked after and hong kong does not actually become a best you know and the chinese activities. in the open helps in them you know tom so this is one of the reasons why the so keen to assert the sovereignty of. china over hong kong so in other words what the chinese are actually doing today is to remind people that the one country comes before that the system and it's not going to be a situation whereby hong kong is going to be another taiwan where they have. the jewel you know defacto if you like a new pendants. so but equally in september
because we are seeing the legislative council elections and also this is leading up to the u.s. democratic us elections i think beijing is very apprehensive for what what might actually develop come this summer so they are exposed trying to. assert. some sort of control over the situation in hong kong martin do you got that or the you got that idea as well as beijing so worried about what it sees from the press the threats of the protests in hong kong the existential threat of that but it's worth cracking down on them even at the risk of international condemnation. well you're going to go back a few years had turned on all the promises enshrined in this a new british joint declaration and the basic law none of this problems none of them would have happened if china had allowed our completive democracy as promised
britain and the basic law which is that during the 1st 10 years of the handover i would give then a democracy but universal suffrage is defined to go that can be achieved in 10 years time from the 1st of july that is. the 1st bombs the 2nd is that china will not interfere in hong kong into business now if you try and tear it here to those promises i can tell you none of this none of these disturbances would have happened in our own people going to have been trying to book both of these media promises and wanted that they know tell the whole world our basic policies regarding home and not completely change the why don't you guys learned about it why are you guys not speaking on that why should international community though when they were lobbying for him to for supporting the joint declaration of 26 of september 19th to
fall when it was 1st announced to the world i was surprised at the time why did the us government needed or silicon japanese government so many government in europe actually not only supported it just because china and britain lobbied for international support very diligently asking them to come out and stop them openly and strongly for fear that the emigration title would continue in many groups who are then are who they are for international support one human being no one thinker we were happy you are supporter one country 2 says than. the shell game and we give you the support we continue to support one country 2 systems ulla and show people why do you change it. and why did you guys should seek out right now we. normally. do you know. this is the 3rd and i don't know.
martin we thank you much on the mark about a lot of it isn't it the central government ignore the aspirations of the people of hong kong they were promised they could elect their leader by universal suffrage there were many excuses introduced and it's never going to happen now beijing hasn't recognized what the people of hong kong want. well i'm not sure i mean we you know that i think that we're well more. mature than you whites were we believe. but i think that whatever pointed in the past we've got to look at this full of all are. we getting that and not this choice and a lot of tools a regional issue what we look at will. more or i think the us small minded and we're trying to be able.
to see us still want to want just to think we want to hold out. to shoot and of course this is just. one step into the white house ashes series. but this movie or this or this is off for one year where we look at it from that broader view we're going to. you know i think clearly. the white walls point to the walls to see if they can read it back to the looking for ways to form is all are were as shower is for you all around the world so i'm not so sure that certainly we aren't saying martin is more reasonable. the satisfied with the situation but it's
a very good force for these dogs or people with more extreme i think people more usually to sign it. so i think that whatever works for what it's done in the past year soon will lead to cities of commission or omission still think you're anywhere you aren't just. looking to score. victor the basic law was adopted by the national people's congress 30 years ago now the world is very different is more polarized world politically whether it's trumps america britain victor or pounds hungary so is it harder for the ideals of a one country 2 systems system to survive in this defo to a different world. you know 'd i i don't think so i think i've lived in on going for about 12 years now and of and before that i was living in u.k.
for most a decade and i can tell you that i few for most part very free in hong kong i think the real problem is the question of power sharing with the democrats and this is what i think that the democratic camp is so angry about for most part hong kong people are pretty much free to do what they want to in fact i think they have a lot more freedoms than their competitors on mainland and therein lies the problem beijing beijing has. beijing's has a political problem because on one hand it is trying to maintain the one country 2 system in hong kong and that the hong kong system runs itself and on the other hand it's trying to control things on the mainland but everybody whether you meant land in hong kong chinese citizens so this disparity is becoming. is presenting problems governance in china to a large extent. the freedom that has been accorded to hong kong people has any but
then to go on the streets to protest every year and of course the all it's not just the wall that is watching it's also the people in mainland china that watching so you can understand how this might actually cause some concerns in china regarding the repercussions or if you like the following effects for political governance in mainland china itself. right now hong kong is still very valuable to mainland china. perhaps not as valuable as one would as it once was 25 years ago but nonetheless hong kong is a very valuable part of china so i believe that the men then towards these are very keen to preserve the system that have built up in hong kong as a way forward what i think the mainland thursdays are frustrated. we have is the perceived political bickering that has been going on between the different camps and i think the are not really sure what might be the way forward the
also not sure 'd as to how. perhaps even more freedom we all got how the future might actually play out what they actually really concerned about is the propensity of the perhaps the democratic camp to declare or edge to its independence i think this is this is the real concern behind all these things that are being done in hong kong martin lee you were involved certainly in the early stages of the drafting of the basic law did you for see these challenges than and can the basic law withstand the pressure that it seems to be under now. well i said at a time openly that one country 2 systems can work in very difficult but never true sure conditions to buy into a condition one is hamas a democracy again in democracy and that archie executive as well as all members of the legislature will be elected by the people too they will find it in this society
for their own sick to defend our system whenever there is any conflict of interest between mainland and hong kong otherwise they lose the next elections that's a 1st the 2nd thing is beijing must not interfere with our internal affairs more these are written into the basic law library could work but if bijan had actually i don't know that to defend the opposing this already democracy then the democrats would have the majority in the legislative council and media would run hong kong as her firm in that we think you are i have never never the room with an open. mind and rethink your the 1st paragraph says the homecoming isn't in the part of china the independence's are but one country 2 systems please and the one country was already there for the 1st july and in 97 when the british let him down in the
chinese there were not that's one country but the 2 systems they should be kept apart that wasn't probably is ok neither british knowledge chinese ship 100 car for 50 years if you lie on how people should run that aren't equal autonomy aren't give us democracy do interfere how can we be a fine please but no they won't. still don't please please don't just defend china look at how come we were not asking for anything more than what was already promised and written into china's own basic law for. i am not asking for anything else i've always said no it depends but give us one country 2 systems as promised nothing more. nothing less. one of the puzzling things is that the central government beijing it was understood wanted to
use one country 2 systems to show taiwan how it could work and taiwan the people of taiwan must be looking at what's happening happening a homecoming now and saying look we told you it can never work there's no democracy than now in hong kong so where is the central government bothered about what thai and china sees happening in hong kong what taiwan sees is happening in hong kong or i think certainly at one or instance or and. that was an uncertain one we're both. are we need of the issue. of firewall on the part but i think also that the so what will. i think sadly it will recognize that. there ought to be waves or especially will. so again when you look at this was of course thinking it
was all. when in when it's when it's that will that sets using this model we. will then iraq will. iraq also or or. i well question as well were clearly one of yours or the world or models or intellectual or. well so were nor are was approached for war. of course there are voices and i won that are very much against. ending war. sure. sure. but on the other hand. we will there are possible we are in a civil war it was going well for. a much tour. remains the civil war of the one thing that was march it was the absence of that war. are
all of which means one who will see this law. and victor to you as well what's happening in hong kong must make people in taiwan well the likelihood of any sort of strengthening of ties between china and hong kong china and taiwan even more remote than they were before. well i i think so unless. the tone of the politics in taiwan changes but i think it's going to be unlikely unless the holding town manages to get some really attractive candidates having said that i think in hong kong is possible for the one system one country 2 systems to function really well and i think the ball is in both the democratic party's movements can call right now in the upcoming elections if the democratic party can
actually be some sort of concern for beijing's sick national security agenda and if the democratic party can link hong kong's democrat ties ation from the national security concerns meaning they can do they can say that they want political accountability they want to have the suffrage but if they do not. make it make such strong linkages with the united states particularly u.s. congress particularly getting members of u.k. u.s. political establishment to attack china and the companies and the chinese statements i think and execute the reason reasonable amount of political willingness to work with. the protest abolition cam i think the hong kong politics in hong kong can take a very positive tone if only both camps do not make the public so.
if you like. radical ok i'm afraid that it's correct we're ok unfortunately gentlemen we are out of time i'm very sorry martin lee i have to say thanks to all of our guests to martin lee to andy mark and to victor teo and to thank you to watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story from me bernard smith and the whole scene here in doha by foot. they say to legally know someone you must walk a mile in their shoes. follow in their footsteps the state forge their way in the
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