tv Inside Story Al Jazeera March 24, 2021 10:30am-11:01am +03
sexual violence hoping to see justice prevail alison that. the results from the republic of congo election show the incumbent president will extend his 36 years in power nice gesso received more than 88 percent of the vote in the result one expected by analysts the main opposition party boycotted the day because of concerns about its safety and credibility suz closest rival people these diets of covert 19 hours after the polls. i was there with me still robin a reminder of our top stories israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says that he's won a great victory in the nation's 4th election in just 2 years and that's despite exit polls suggesting there's no clear winner and showed us you know who's the good party has won between 31 and 33 seats the tough economy some west jerusalem it
looks like netanyahu yet again has a path to form a new government the question is is how shaky of a coalition he's going to be able to form he's now looking at disparate elements across sort of the blocks to see who he can cobble together to join him in forming a new government he was conciliatory in remarks made early this morning rather than sort of triumph it he said that he would reach out to any party and any knesset member to do what's best for israel the ball state television says the military has released more than 600 protesters arrested since last month's coup they were released from a prison and young dog a local human rights group says at least 2000 people have been arrested in the military crackdown since last month's. officials in bangladesh are investigating what caused a large fire at the world's largest refugee camp at least 15 people were killed and hundreds more were missing in cox's bazaar monday's fire destroyed thousands
shelters camp ounces more than a 1000000 ringler effigies from the country and the u.n. says nearly 45000 refugees have lost their homes press freedom is in the spotlight in hong kong a veteran journalist from its r.t. h.k. public broadcaster is on trial after investigating police misconduct choi has pleaded not guilty she's accused of making false statements to get data she used in a documentary the case relates to allegations police were too slow to respond to an attack on pro-democracy protesters in 2019 brazil has recorded its highest number of coronavirus test since the beginning of the pandemic more than 3200 people died in covert 19 on tuesday brazil has been reporting the world's highest daily numbers of deaths for weeks now those are the headlines about that more news in half life here on al-jazeera next it's inside story do stay with us. it's a very bleak picture for
a lot of americans out there white supremacy in fact all of our youth if you're putting your money into the hands of someone 1st keiki money out of the hands of other markers that will goes to their camp it becomes us versus them this is the deal about constraining your nuclear program the bottom line the big questions on al-jazeera. will rich countries lift their weight is on pensions for covert 90 vaccines lead is of course countries say that's needed to secure vaccines for their people the many in the west and he went to the actual property should be protected so where does this wrangling leave millions still queuing to get a job this is inside story. they're welcome to the program. poor nations is stepping up their fight for equal
access to covert 90 vaccines trying to convince rich nations to support their request for a waiver on patients' rights they say acquiring vaccine knowledge could help them boost production of jobs u.s. president joe biden must now decide whether to change course and support the move the u.s. is one of several nations resisting the request at the world trade body arguing it would discourage innovation separately the country's about to get control of a patient basically making it the odor of the technology at the heart of several that exceeds those vaccines a builds on this technology so produces will have to get licenses from the u.s. to use it once the patient has issued it will the u.s. use the opportunity to pressure drug makers for more equal access. rights campaign is warn the prospect of billions of people not being vaccinated for years to come could undermine the fight again. the pandemic globally they say 9 out of 10 people
in poor countries may not get vaccinated at all this year only 0 point one percent of doses worldwide have been that ministers in the 50 poorest nations africa has been allocated 300000000 doses so far for its population of more than 1300000000 people also more than one half of the doses boards have been allocated to about 16 percent of the global population wealthy and middle income countries have received about 90 percent of more than 440000000 vaccines delivered so far thank. you. let's bring in our guests in new haven thomas pogge is professor of philosophy and political science at yale university and co-founder of incentives for global health and oxford to samantha vance offices researcher at the oxford vaccine group working on collective responsibility for infectious disease in london max lawson is head of inequality
policy at oxfam international very well welcome to the program thanks for joining us here on inside story i'd like to begin with you samantha america as a read saying is about to receive control of a patient of basically the technology which is at the heart of several coronavirus vaccines can you explain that for us and what it might be so i think we have already lost some opportunities to apply pressure on pharma companies to open license and we know that already but there there is a chance that the governments like the u.s. can now apply pressure to have more transfer of technology through their ownership things like this with pate. so this patent is i guess millette killer engineering this is this is being described as the last best chance that we have the equitable access what do you think thomas pogge do you think this is the world's last best chance do you think that the world will take it will the us use this opportunity to
pressure the drug makers now that i don't think it's the only chance that we have 'd a key objective so we have to increase production and we have to also equalize the access to the vaccines that have been with us and this can only be achieved if we really bring on board 'd all the production capacity that we have new production capacity in the developing countries and then in turn can be done in several ways that can be done by trying to open up the i p and importantly also with knowledge of all the ingredients for a back seat production and it can also be done if the pharmaceutical innovator it's higher that rent out basically this production capacity but they will only do that revenue with action if they're given incentives to produce in larger quantities
the problem is you have large pool of populations in the world they're not where he is meaningful market demand for that scene and he have to somehow translate their urgent need to be their acts and they fit into effective markets that mom ok max also i'd like to bring you when everyone seems to be talking about international collaboration about equitable access to vaccines it's all the talk but it doesn't say many a walking the walk why is that. i think rich country leaders are quite rightly concerned about their own population and they're trying to cover up with a lot of fine talk about the kovacs mechanism and distributing vaccines that critically other things are good and they are making a difference but the fact is that the boss majority of vaccines have be bought by rich countries for a very high price from pharmaceutical corporations 'd who are making an enormous
amount of money from vaccines that were publicly funded there's a public property being translated into private profit we've seen that in the last 2 weeks the profit. predictions for companies like falling 'd from the billions and billions of dollars being made producing these vaccines and sending them almost entirely to rich countries this is a broken system the market is not delivering and we're seeing already it's the ties to the e.u. is getting of their own medicine with significant shortages in the year vaccines for it's between the e.u. and other nations leaders in the e.u. meeting tomorrow and the next day to discuss that is what they should be doing instead of fighting each other they should be smashing down the doors of the pharmaceutical corporations and getting those recipes which of public property and then we can last produce these vaccines for the world we can have
a people's vaccine instead of a profit vaccine that the moral case is so clear and we need to see them on max you're saying that they governments could be a lobbying all putting pressure on the drug companies is that not just passing the buck in some way can governments just be putting forth the money that's necessary to that tonight just not just their populations but you know poor poorer nations as well. i think it's it's if you look at the prices being paid i give you an example so there are vaccines for tetanus and that syria that are produced and regularly given in the developing world knowing sense of years medina is church is charging $15.00 a dyer's so if rich countries only put forward more money to pay those kinds of prices then the costs of vaccinating the world is astronomical and completely on this is scary so the key point is yes rich countries should be funding the vaccination of the world but the primary thing they could do is to open up
production because that will drive down prices it will make vaccines much much more affordable which is of course much more sustainable in the long run if we're going to have to consistently fight this disease for many years to come we have to have that think that cheap effective and available in every nation on a son or daughter get corroded arse in kenya as safe as i am here in london samantha vandersloot india south africa and some 55 other countries as well saying have gone to the world trade organization to argue for access to covert 19 patients what are the chances of so far none of the big heavy had is if they have agreed to it what are the chances do you think that this will ever work. so the richer countries are blocking this movement isn't looking likely that that's going to change w.t. c.e.o. level what i do see is the scenario that access will be opened up there's
a question of how quickly this can happen so if we look and see retroviral hiv aids we don't want to be in a situation where access to those kind of drugs take decades and years and years i am very hopeful that covert 19 buckskins will become more widely available but it's the speed that we really need to be put in pressure on ok like up on that if speed is the issue you know we have these vaccines that are already in place but if speed is the issue is there a danger that if we don't get the vaccine out fast enough to to enough people it'll just mutate and actually these vaccines may not be as education anymore oh definitely this is the major worry that some. slow rollout will encourage more barrett and so dark things will not work and it will and we'll have to be looking at new boosters and new vaccine so we don't want to have this and. it's incredible
really that you know the fate of humanity is at play here and yet the world can't seem to agree on getting this vaccine to everyone thomas pogge the countries that are blocking the w t o proposal for patient access the ones that are blocking it say that it will impact innovation if they were to open up the patients to everyone it would impact the ability to innovate do they have a point. and then we went to the point that if we use incentives in the next pandemic that is certainly a concern but it doesn't take away from the moral imperative that is if you will rich countries if they reviewed system blocking i even if they think they have a good argument for that they have to find another way to solve the problem why we absolutely for the reasons that you've given me have to vaccinate the world as fast as we possibly can one where there is to be this fake most expense for.
well chips wave or whatever the look after it sets them on the but another where knowing that if the rich countries absolutely do not want to do that is to offer a fixed price per dose of effect seen and then by the number effect see is that the need for the most in the world he would set seeding you know something like maybe $15.00 as max that's suggestive but even that that cost is not be astronomical the cost of $4000000000.00 so is it $15.00 to $60000000000.00 and the united states alone has just passed a stimulus package of $1900000000000.00 so maybe the ringback best seen cost is a rounding error compared to the damage that this fund them is doing well in life and also if we are talking about cost max lawson the vatican which has observer status at the world trade organization has made the economic occupant that any loss
of profit to the drug companies if they were to make the patents available would be easily offset by the economic balance back where the entire world vaccinated and everyone could return to work and production line to be would be working again does that argument not hold any weight with the heavy has the likes of the u.s. or the u.k. . i think it is i think at least privately behind the scenes the the airlines the industries with big supply chains in developing countries they would all be lower being hot by the administration and others to say look why are you putting the profits of this one industry to pharmacies glinda straight ahead of the economic recovery that would drop jokes not just in developing countries but in the usa the numbers are staggering the cost of not vaccinating the world is estimated to be about knowing trillion dollars 'd which would translate into over a trillion dollars for the u.s. economy so to be really clear with you is that means even if the u.s.
economy every single other in the u.s. is vaccinated they will still face the economic loss because of the trading implications ironically given we're talking about the w.t.f. the strongest arguments against the dummy t.r.x. the trade argument in favor of the rest of the economy so it is a no brainer financially but i wouldn't want to underestimate the cost of these vaccines for poor countries at the moment you know what is a tiny amount of money for the french government pesetas and is a huge amount for a government but the government of uganda where they're spending more buying back seeing themselves and getting into for the debt then they currently spend on health for the entire year so they're priced while you beyond the means of almost every national day of environment because of these monopolies you raise a really good point i want to come back to you samantha vandersloot you know getting these vaccines out to poorer nations even when the vaccines do get to for
example the kovacs 1st lot of the 1st shipment of codex that's the global vaccine alliance those that seem to have gone to ghana but now they're having trouble getting it into people's arms because people there don't trust the vaccine and even today was had outside astra zeneca had questions come out around that vaccine around the around the dasa. perhaps that may have been using out to outdated information from its trials giving an incomplete view although everyone still says this vaccine is safe you know even that discussion even that narrative impacts the way that people see these vaccines so are we missing the wood for the trees are we talking too much about getting vaccines to everyone and not enough about making sure people want them. this is certainly has to be part of it and we've just learned from past mistakes time and time again with banks in campaigns that you have to bring the public on board you have to give very clear communication engage
with communities and otherwise it just won't work and. we're already seeing that many fronts i think it can't just be about the vaccine and the technology itself it's about the adoption also what kind of implementation systems have you got in place. and i think also to add to the point that thomas was making about access it was a manufacturing been part and parcel of this issue we can take smaller steps now that don't require w.t.f. amendments and agreements for example encourage in pharma companies to collaborate with as we see we've seen with them pfizer and snuffy join forces 'd and then also on the access front the donations that are coming from richer countries at the moment part of surplus vaccines and we can we can encourage countries to be
committed to a proportion of the vaccines that we're signing up to robert than just given away. talking about giving vaccines away that raises the whole issue of vaccine diplomacy thomas pogge several countries are offering up doses to poor countries i'm thinking of china i'm thinking of russia i mean does that have any negative consequences is that old saying nothing comes for free east so is this something that those countries might be paying for down the line. now there may very well be having to pay for this down the line of this is obviously in some cases not very well motivated but again in some cases there is also an artistic motivation involved as well where employees find to practice solidarity among the developing world so i wouldn't say that all these efforts to magically geopolitically motivated by power and fine will make friends in the developing world so it's
a means fair off of both motivations and certainly in some cases more than one can say for the rest and i'm pleased with very little to help overcome these vaccines or that this in the 4 companies max loss and how much money a drug companies actually making out of the current virus pandemic. let's take one fall is that they estimate they can to make $15000000000.00 'd of revenue. this year alone this is going to become the biggest selling product so they're going to make an enormous amount of money meant to making a huge amount of money not every company astra zeneca have said they're not going to make a profit in the jury in the pandemic and also johnson and johnson and not charging as high a price but they are all going to make a lot of money from this and their shareholders we're going to see that shareholder meetings in the next month you see enormous payouts billions of dollars to shareholders for vaccines let's not forget that we're funded by public monies
a publicly owned property and we're handing this to a profit making industry and i think it's very clear that we can see from the widespread shortages that no one company even astra zeneca which has done some good deals all over the developing world no one company is up to the job you know they know the job of x. in 1000 the world also i think we need to think this from a kind of security perspective do we roll the lives of humanity the choice of a who lives and who dies to be a choice made by someone in an office in a pharmaceutical company or do we want that to be might by governments together not the moment the c.e.o. of follies gets to decide who lives and who dies around the world that's not sustainable in the long run and even we've even seen common types like tony blair come out recently saying that this is a classic example of market failure that we need to invest in domestic
manufacturing in developing countries all over the world so we have the government and government controlled ability to produce vaccines rapidly we have these amazing new technologies that's one of the big success stories with the m.r.i. and i have axing they enable vaccines to be produced. not much more rapidly in the future let's invest in a strategic global system for keeping us safe instead of relying on a broken system or puts profits up into no or put more money into research environment growth than malaria these i'm not companies that we should put faith in ahead terms of human security i hear what you're saying i wonder if we have missed the bus you're talking about you know governments invested a lot of money in getting these vaccines developed what we all remember you know all of the announcements about the amounts of money that were going into these programs samantha vandersloot you know couldn't governments have put contractual
caviar it's into those deals at the time when they were putting money into these drug companies which were doing the development have we already missed the bus on that so it could have been possible at the time i think under the conditions this is not something that the governments ended up there and i think under the pressure to to change the pharmaceutical system. was probably too much of the tosk but it doesn't mean that things can't be done from from now on i don't think we've missed the boat completely. thomas pogge should we be questioning the extent of control that patent holders for covert 19 vaccines have well i think what we should 1st and foremost question is the system that gives these companies peyton's in the 1st place we've warding pharmaceutical innovation
will monopoly effie's is just not a very good way of doing it 1st of all it wants the alternative. but you're tentative is what i feel for policy for many years if you offer pharmaceutical companies need warrants that are based on the health impact off in the summer to see the girls that they put on the market. so here it doesn't matter whether the patients are rich or poor get the same reward for the saying amount of health impact and if you have that sort of a system you would obviously it would be very lucrative to vaccinate the whole world including the poorest and that's what you need to achieve if he'd want to get rid of this and then make it for as you said earlier it's wheats will occasionally almost like when you go into a new job and you have sit down with your boss and create some goals to achieve so if you did that with the drug companies at the start and make it based on their
health outcomes then they're going to have the incentive to go out there make people healthy maxwell max lawson. so the so that is that is a completely different system that's an idea of a completely different system before we move on from the from the concept not the concept but move on from patients from call the vaccine patients what impact would undermining these patients or giving free access to these patients what impact would that have on future research do you think. oh i think we already have a broken system so we could question the validity of the system as a whole but even if we see this as an exceptional moment and this is a 1000 a century human experience or as the head of the w. has said about this issue if not now when i mean we suspended patents for the aids that didn't destroy the patent system but it kept many many people alive myself i would like to see wider reform of the patent system i agree with thomas
didn't know if it is a system that rewards investment in invite them and there is a system that has been broken for many many many years so i think that remains true but even if you don't accept that you have to accept that this is an extraordinary moment in human history and it seems absolutely crazy when the most were publicly funded that rich countries are willing to stand up there the damage here and say we are happily vaccinating all of our population by the way you kovacs not us because you know innovation must be protected in the long run i think it's absolutely morally unsustainable but i think we also have to remember these leaders are self interested and driven by their citizens and it's not just the fact that within moments you know my mother had a vaccine to 3 weeks ago here in the u.k. i feel that the safety the security the freedom from fear that vaccine brings it will only be a few months before someone like my mother gets sick again from concord 19 because
the vaccine no longer works and the said we are going to have to leave it there for a time my apologies max max alyson there from oxford oxfam international we appreciate all of you joining us here on inside story a big thank you to for watching that we had some of that that assault research right off the bat same group thomas pogge a professor of philosophy and of course next olson on time international now you can see the program again any time by visit. no web sites is there a dot com a further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com ford slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at a.j. inside story for me can find out from the whole team here about an hour. a probe on al-jazeera from
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