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tv   The Stream  Al Jazeera  April 28, 2021 10:30pm-11:01pm +03

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he's painted over a mural of the jailed kremlin critic hours after it appeared issued a jubilant valmy making a heart shape with his hands next to a slogan a hero of a time the mural was painted in president vladimir putin's hometown st petersburg the opposition figure is serving a 2 and a half year prison sentence for violating parole while he was being treated in germany last year for poisoning more on that and everything else that we have been covering here on al-jazeera on our website there it is al jazeera dot com. and now the top stories on al-jazeera india has reported another record number of coronavirus that's 3293 fatalities were reported on wednesday pushing its official covert best toll past 200000 it's the 4th country to reach that mark but
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experts fear the true number is actually far higher all indians over 18 will be eligible for a vaccine from saturday neighboring pakistan reported a new daily record of 201 deaths on wednesday there have been more than $5000.00 new infections with the rate of people testing positive rising above 10 percent officials say health care facilities are at risk of being overwhelmed with oxygen and ventilators in short supply soldiers have been deployed to enforce restrictions in cities with high infection rates among hyder has more now from islamabad. there is a constitutional clause. that the civilian government can call the military forces in case of emergency and. administration richard exactly what has happened 16 major. had now troops fanning out
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to ensure that people continue. to. die. u.s. federal investigators have raided the manhattan apartment of donald trump's former lawyer rudy giuliani seizing electronic devices prosecutors are looking into giuliani's foreign dealings in ukraine which included an investigation into now president joe biden and this son hunter he's also facing ethics charges over his efforts to overturn trump's loss in last year's u.s. presidential election. thing in the u.s. the state of north carolina will not release the body camera video showing the police killing of andrew brown jr a court has ruled that releasing the video may jeopardize ongoing investigations and impartiality in any future case meanwhile there has been another night of protests in elizabeth city over his that there's
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a top story is the stream is next asking whether western museums should return the beneath bronzes to nigeria. hi anthony ok today on the stream the story of that the name bronzes of nigeria they was stolen they well looted from nigeria to the 19th century the brits to in colonial times and have since spread all around the clock you can see some of these cultural treasures behind me not necessarily made of different metals wood.
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and much admired around the world in museums the question the c.s. debate that has been going on for decades should they stay these music. go back to nigeria let me show you where the king. was back in the 19th century just here in the southern part of nigeria this is the kingdom of that it's not the public opinion now you have those facts that's that's the debate studies we often hear the idea that restitution is an attack upon museums that this is iconoclasm close in fact restitution is already a part of the normal operation of museums in america and europe in the cases of nazi loot and in the cases of indigenous ancestral human remains for the very different historical circumstances of african objects that were taken under colonialism increasingly the conversation is happening in between all the
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unseasoned trustees and courageous who think it's time that this issue is addressed so let's get this conversation started with i guess telling us we have a notes where we have donovan we have nailed it is good to see the gentleman and let's hear a educational south to astral audience and your connection to that the name brands in this early morning reason they want to hear. the truth is that you're. walking with the. government do you believe. that if you research on trust to get about rosie's a real job. or office just in. design or words arterial marjorie who's really barker. bank real progress.
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is a long story no to go and get back to in just a moment don of a nice to have you here on the stream tell everybody your connection to the been in one since. i'm a journalist and author i was a b.b.c. correspondent in nigeria many years ago and i've just written a book called loot britain and the ben in bronzes in which i tell the tale of how the bronzes were made in that west african kingdom how and why the british took them in 1907 what happened to them since and the very current active debate which we talk about this evening what should happen to them now hello neal you've been making headlines around the well do you are a hot topic in the out well tell our audience why. head of museums especially collections university of aberdeen in scotland and yes with the university announce that it would return ben in brahms' to work 4 weeks ago it was purchased by the unrest in 1057 good to have neil bonnett day and in l.t.a.
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and also a huge audience watching right now on you tube you can jump into the comment section of part of today's program in o.t. i did a very very simple explanation of what the printing bronzes actually are but there's a much deeper cultural significance a sum to who comes from at and state how would you explain what's these striking objects actually truly me. well. our symbol of our cultural heritage. objects were made. or maybe all the religions of all original causes were imposed on someone before you remember real story telling our stories or history or the maid or. so. the products to give us
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a little history or heritage a symbol of our civilization has lost that way oh yes. but me i'm just going to show us some of the pictures that are in your book loot and it starts off with this campaign. to go to the named city because the brits want to do trades with the hour the playing and and the over is not that keen on doing so so we we start off with well this is the team who went out to bring city can you talk us through some of these pictures and why they're important. these are some of the senior officers of the punitive expedition they're sitting on board a boat in liverpool and they're on their way to belize city the british empire at that time the preeminent global power able to assemble a force very quickly they bring in ships from cape town from motor from across the
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globe they march into ben in city they believe that the burger king of bend in the city the british say has not been observing the terms of an earlier treaty which he had been coerced probably into into agreeing to some years earlier and they raise ben incisions to the ground they have an overwhelming military force they have the maximum gun which is a devastating weapon and the buried empire a proud empire a place of cultural achievement for many hundreds of years has no chance here you can see british officers in the arbors palace in the courtyard and this is just some of the loot which they took of there as you say ben bronzes but of course great piles of tasks as well these are i suppose iconic i suppose infamous images and they helped capture why the looting of city has become
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emblematic of the whole question of colonial looted art because the bend in bronze as were so splendid and because the manner in which they were taken was so egregious so relatively recent and so well documented neal. until quite recently you hear 1st he had a penny in for you or you were planning on keeping it was part of your collection and that changed can you tell us that story and why it changed. i think this is something that's been happening over many years and gradually mean obviously bernie graham's the 1990 s. was arguing for the return of pending promises so it's not something that's new. and but i think for me from the 2 thousands we started being involved in asian to north america still in new zealand and i think what's become so clear is that instead of seeing these things as things they're about relationships that are by
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people they matter tremendously to people from whom they were they were collected. so i think we started seeing our collection slightly differently seeing it as a being about relationships and about relationships in the present as much as the possibly want to address that. so we realized that you know we had this this one band in bronze that was was bought by the university and the 195-0000 example of african art and that was on display in 1906 celebrate the independence of nigeria but the more we thought about it more we realized that in the yes we might have had legal title to it but really given the way in which the bending city was destroyed in the material was looted we really couldn't say that we had a model title so it really clashed with the university's values of being international being inclusive being respectful and so i thought of that really i think very clearly very logically came the feeling that we should return this one assassin thoughts with advancement through an instant reaction of mom for nothing
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with a question this is from it seems often especially much closer to that house of origin and that's how response. well you. share our stories what we heard access to their war. critter america marius says and i'm going to give this one team why not set up infrastructure of the countries help invest in the preservation of their own treasures their own culture i don't disagree with that all i think really you know that's very important that people should be able to see their own culture and i think you know there are advantages to having things elsewhere in the world but i think the important 'd thing is that the decision to decide what happens lies with people you reasonings belong to i am picking up on one more thing here we are going to said this is you this is from adam are they if they are returned they will not
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be preserved we don't have adequately romney's cm's adam a is nigerian we are not known for maintaining a preserving historical artifacts this is something you looked into and you went to binny city what did you find. well i would say that the debate about the problems within nigerian museums is carried out with much more candor and understanding within nigeria 'd itself that it is in europe and this is an important point and there are facts for nigeria in this story nigerian museums already have a very fine collection of bennett brands if you go to the national museum in lagos unfortunately not many of them are on display and not many people in lagos go and see them having said that i think the reason now a golden opportunity to make things better and to repair that situation and not yours is the right man you should be trying because in city right now there is
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assembled something of a dream to a governor governor who's really committed a star architect is or not he is told use and do a better job and the the international support the international sympathy is there so this is a golden opportunity for nigerians on the ground to get it right and that is indicative of how the world is changing if you like the fate of the better bronzes will be determined as much by the acts of key nigerian players as the conscience is of western curators and that is something very important they see and just looking at here your picture of you and david as. who has designed so many extraordinary buildings around the world have a good discussion if i was off line of all hear what i hear. oh here we were talking about the significance of the mosque. which is in
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the british museum on. terrorism. to the significance of what i have done so explain how important his job in the artist development opening. to the building known probably $0.60 you're. going to symbol. of striving for excellence on the achievements of aussie legislation. i'm wondering for the process that real conversation that is happening about well if we have. well then in bronzes back to 90. you have the resources to no cost them well look after them that happen instances where a lot of money was spent that in the back from different parts of europe to clean the $950.00 s. and they ended up back in europe and you know to how we have we're so people can know that that won't happen again or you're no no it's not going to happen again
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because now there's a plan in place to view the globe out and up ms young i don't need your we're starting. a business on what is being built on the. independent trust legacy which the original trust which harvesting key stakeholders trust. of our or our last real promise of being in. government and c m m which is national. monuments on the board of trustees are this legacy research on frost is an independent structure going to stop short which will responsibility of the busy on i don't short it is built according to our standards it's been designed by citing. the renown sheet i'm sure that the safety of the project but we are short on display and preserve our orders to go about this
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process. you know a lot of this other parts have been here or. it's already aired on the looted so they were sitting here wrote about said oh great it's all you need not to part in the national museum of said there for anybody to see just this afternoon i went to vote in the young and as you saw runs that is the reason we haven't all been taught probably what it was one thing is we're developing a walk lawson's young. german western arts which will recede and display there's 2 parts are going to be published party so there's no fear of this got in the government or. got no you know basically over and 2 states is very focused on this ok let's do some recent trust our is an independent trust we showed
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the new president's best best you have to get the been named bronze is back to this well past museum so that involves some of those slow motion ads to teenie about because he should have a listen to this comment festival and i just come off the back of a meeting a waitress latte. there is a new dynamic both in the global south and in the global norse former colonies are strengthening them using him infrastructure and they are developing policies to retrieve objects that were lost in voluntarily during the colonial era. former colonizers on the other hand are slowly moving to a point where they are willing to repatriate such objects. now the challenge is to whether former colonies and former colonizers are able to reduce them which will distrust and to to dialogue on the issue on an equivalent level only
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den some of the injustice committed in the colonial era can be undone. alexander i think what's really important is this discussion is coming together the consensus that's being built and i think you know we i feel that we've you know played a part in building the collaboration with the partners that are not yet he's been talking about it i think is really important we don't see this as a sort of oppositional thing that it's something where we you know we come into with good intent and then we can we can achieve good things. we talked to the british museum we asked them if they would be part of this program. they sent us a statement and said it's a very long statement but let's have a look at it and then i'll just put a couple of things that really struck us on the stream so i put that up on the screen there what he said you can actually see that and this is where the british
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museum are coming from where they they have some difficulty which i know you will be able to explain but they say we believe the strength of the british museum collection resides in its bret's and debts allowing millions of visitors and understanding of the cultures of the world and how they connect over time whether through trade migration conquest or peaceful exchange and we're talking about conquest right here so bada bing that sounds to me like they're not really. done to give the name brands in this to this beautiful museum that will happen in the southern part of nigeria that doesn't sound to me like they're going to hand them over what did you find when you went there to talk to them about this. well there's a lot i could say about the british museum i think when i started out on this project i i felt like a lot of people that it was a very you know self-assured possibly even arrogant institution which didn't feel it had to answer for itself and towards the end i came see it instead as
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a rather divided institution an institution which is almost paralyzed by this problem and doesn't quite know what to say and hence it's not untypical that they've given you a press release and they haven't appeared in this program the british museum does have a story to tell and doesn't always succeed in getting it across they are constrained in a way that neil courtesy in aberdeen for example is not there is something called the british museum act of $963.00 which makes it impossible for the british museum to de exception that museum speak for the handover in a permanent way items from its collection with a few exceptions which which dan hicks mentioned at the beginning of the program to do not so young and not see taken luton human body parts but in general terms it's very difficult for the british museum to give things back for ever without a change to the law and that would require an act of parliament and it's difficult
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to see this current british conservative government. going down that route the british museum does have a lot of leeway however over loans and within the bend in dialogue group which is a group of museums which are talking about this thing they've indicated a willingness to lend back an unspecified number of bet in bronzes and they haven't they haven't even stipulated you know which ones within their collection they have they haven't ruled out any objects but there is a potential car crash for the british museum i have to say which is that only other museums in the belly and our group it's not inconceivable that they will give back their bet in bronzes and the british museum. well i'm not loaning it's been a bronze you know that let alone infuriates people whose art has been stolen looted and since i had a gun say that in the bank how you thought about. writing this is why i'm in the
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universities decision was for an unconditional return we didn't have moral title so i think in our decisions rather straightforward i think there's one thing i would take out missions in statement i think it's interesting which is about this ability of objects to tell stories about connections with people around the world and i think it would be really good if we were able to lend scottish things to burning cities so that that that your mutual lending can go on i think it might be nice if we could but maybe sometime borrow some bending bronzes from from burning city and i think there's a there to be a lot more flow between institutions rather than focusing too much on in on ownership but i think in the end this case for laws that the decision of ownership was quite simple and i tell you even that once made might my jaw drop when you were suggesting an exchange of pretty bronzes and some of the greatest art that europe has ever produced what were you suggesting that staying should be and i'll take
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that. no what i was saying was that this part of our hearts belongs to us. it's imperative and not an issue that the ownership of it up to parks should be clear clearly established a lot of us not when we want to should have been established on the outer part. but of course then like needed miller said we can't have this exchange programs where we. are to mars to any global means young and then also law council or go. to also 'd show you know more you know the law system is something that is not written them as young sister well we're going to start limited items not belong to us you know so it should be clear that russia or this apart. and that we
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don't loan them to you and vote ask for walks we belong to you belong to ross show you know museums. our one surviving all our father right now i want to visit one more place and this is the ever we're going to do it. the a digital opening project because it's a creative thoughts about how do we share our thoughts around the well universally and this is one way have a look have a listen. this is nothing new this is a project designed to prove this is all a couple dozen canadians believe it is no it isn't it isn't and google is a polluted see it in it's 7 and 930 this is for those who can who was haven't you all the normal for which is the little indian in indigenous of them does that mean
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it is not a substitute for a petition but again it's one of those tears that is going to indeed variation to ensure rescission addition of being objects that's when i've got this shockingly short amount of time left in this program but i want to ask you just briefly and us thoughts why you think the solution that for the return of the name brands is happening right now. well i think there's lots of things that i think many many museums curators are no thinking as i say about music objects as relationships so there has been a huge change in the people working in museums i think there are many there's much more thinking about the history of collections and much more willingness to to listen to the people associated with objects so i think that the world has shifted in many different ways and i think we're coming together as partners and be said to sort of golden moment. bunny have got 45 seconds i think that will go ahead
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wasn't that happening now. well point some very specific political things present mycroft france went to west africa 2017 he made a very exciting and unexpected speech saying this cannot carry on a report came out which pertained to french museums but it sent shock waves across british and german museums and then even more recently black lives matters exploded in the united states in the summer of 2020 there is about police brutality in europe it seems to be all about the colonial legacy and their take very quickly from here what you hear all of the printing vans is all around the world along to nigeria what year will that make a prediction. now on to reduce reform. ending on some optimism. i love that and no t a bunch of e. mail you chivas thank you so much for being part of this conversation now you know
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about the bid in france as you will see headlines all of the time about them have a look here on my laptop you may not be out to see them in person but you can absolutely visit digital reconnecting royal art treasures and supporting everybody and that will be available next year and sorting every see you next time on the street. a tale of 2 presidents. venezuelan military defectors. american must nice. and
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a bizarre yet old dangerous attempt. at regime change in the fall of a green republic of venezuela. people in power the bay of pigs let's own al-jazeera. what's most important to me is talking to people understanding what they're going through here and i just we believe everyone has a story worth hearing. that was 1st fully effects in its life is a clear demonstration of all the measure of set up that anyway as it has put in place to ensure the highest standards of safety and hygiene on ball p.p. if i stop a c.e.o. touch in-flight entertainment system you recap in cleaning systems disinfectant
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robots. today is an important day for the airline industry and the message for travelers is that we are walking tirelessly to implement every measure to safeguard their health thank you. with. hello i'm barbara starr and london these are the top stories on our iraq india has reported another record number of corona virus deaths another 3293 fatalities were reported on wednesday pushing india's official death toll past 200000 it's the 4th country to reach that mark but experts fear that the true
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number is actually far higher elizabeth poor on them has this report from new delhi .


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