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tv   [untitled]    September 13, 2021 3:30am-4:01am AST

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hinges, his defeat by joker, which earlier this year and the australian open the ends, the serbians hopes of winning all the major tournaments in one calendar year. he would have been the 1st to do that. since 1969. the it's got around up now the top stories on june, the chief of the us nuclear watchdog says his talks in iran have averted a show down between the islamic republic and the west. iran as agreed to allow inspectors to install memory cards in surveillance cameras at sensitive nuclear sites. the coming together of the jigsaw puzzle will come when that he's an agreement as a j, c p devil. but at that time we will have all this. ready information and there will not have been a gap. so i think with, with this agreement we have today we are going to be able. ready to do
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exactly that, a cut us foreign minister has met with taliban leadership to address humanitarian and security issues in afghanistan. mohammed been that man is said he is the most senior official from any country to visit since the groups takeover. heavy rain and flash floods in sudan have destroyed dozens of villages. will the 70 people have died? agencies are asking the government to urgently get people to safety. north korea says it's successfully tested, a new type of long rage, cruise miss all over the weekend. the missile flu, 1500 kilometers, and hit targets in the countries territorial waters. the new service reported to the new miss. i will deter what it called hostile forces. 6 more and delusion. towns have been evacuated as a wildfire. rage is out of control in southern spain. one person has died and almost 2000 have been driven from their homes. soldiers have been deployed to help
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hundreds of firefighters battled ablaze, which is advancing from several directions. to women have kicked off their campaigns to be francis. the 1st female president, veteran, far right politician marine the pan address supporters from her national rally party scene phrases and paris man. and he does go is the favorite to win the socialist party nomination. people and by roots have gathered for a solid march to mark world suicide prevention day. they lit candles and carry flowers in a symbolic war to raise awareness of suicide. demand for mental health support in the country has doubled because of the worsening political crisis and deteriorating economic conditions. we're back in half an hour. those are the headlines right now . it's inside stored news, news,
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news, news story, a symbol of united states vocal war on terror. going turn on monday is where prisoners were tortured and denied their rights most released without charge. why is it still open? 20 is off that the september and the text is it? i'm sorry. ah hello, welcome to the program. i'm in, ron con. guantanamo bay opened in the shadow. the 911 attacks 20 years ago was meant to be a temporary detention center for the biggest threats to us national security, as part of the so called war on terror. but the place soon became notorious for
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human rights abuses. at its peak and held at $780.00 detainees most without charge, some were tortured using techniques such as water boarding. they had no protection on the u. s. or international law, and no access to a fair trial. 39 prisoners is still there, including the alleged mastermind of the september 11th attacks. president joe biden has promised to close it by 2024, but his administration faces many legal and political challenges. i don't have a timeline for you, as you know. there's a process, there are different layers of the process, but that remains our goal and we are considering all available avenues to responsibly transfer detainees. and of course, close guantanamo bay. the prison was established at the us base in guantanamo bay, southeast of cuba. in january, 2002 former president brock obama failed to shut it down after congress imposed limits on the transfer of its detainees. and donald trump pledged to keep the
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prison open and loaded up with those he called bad dudes. president joe biden is being challenged by some republicans who see the release of detainees as a threat to us security. his administration is trying to secure guarantees that the detainees will get humane treatment in the home country or 3rd countries will resettle them. for 5 taliban members released in 2014, in exchange for american soldier. and now members of the new taliban government and up on the, on the let's bringing a guess in belgrade, mansell at a fee, a former guantanamo detainees at guantanamo coordinator for kj human rights advocacy organization. and i saw mo, jasmine l, got our senior manager for mena at the institute for strategic dialogue, and a former pentagon, middle east adviser and in york. kenneth ross, executive director of human rights watch. welcome to the program. let's begin in
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new york with you kinda throw off the rough and possibly the most obvious question . why is going on my base still open? well, there are various reasons. part of it is that a number of the people that are a minority have been charged criminal re, but have not been brought before regular court. they're being tried before these make shift military commission that the u. s. government established basically to cover up its torch. they felt it contrived to control the trial proceedings better, but these military commissions and prevent evidence of the torture from coming out . but these commissions don't pretend to provide real justice and they've been subject to all kinds of challenges and problems. and as a result, they're going nowhere. i remember going to guantanamo in 2012. so 9 years ago, for the opening charge of the arraignment against the 5 reading mastermind suspects for $911.00. and there still has not been a trial. so one of the problems is,
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you know, how do you move toward a fair system of justice for the hand, for people who are being charged. as for the rest, the us government has actually impose legislation prohibiting the spending of money to send people back to the united states. so the government needs to find other places to take them, which is done for, you know, most of what, at one point with 780 people at one time. there are $39.00 last, still a majority of never been charged. and some of them the u. s government is, is moving toward trying to put someplace else, but there's relative handful that it believes still are dangerous. but they can't charge them. they don't really have any crime that they can take that they committed. and, you know, that's the problem. and frankly, i think it's a made up problem because if you look around the world, there are many, many people who wish the united states har if they had the opportunity might
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research a terrorist, a tiny handful in guantanamo, but the reason now the, by the ministration to frankly, this is true for the early ones as well. doesn't want to release them as they don't want political responsibility for what might, what happen you to, to this handful of people. you mentioned in the opening that, you know, some of the 100 detainees, farmer detainees are now in the taliban government. and that's the kind of political problem. the u. s. government doesn't like, obviously the taliban has many, many abusive people. that can feel that the government where, you know, the spies have been chosen really, i think just kind of, you know, hope the united states. but you know, that said the, by the ministrations afraid of what in the us called the willie horton. that is, you know, if you release somebody who commits a crime, then you're politically responsible for it. and so i think it's really politics more than anything else. at this stage is standing in the way of actually quoting. well, it's bring one of those so called problems into the conversation, months or a day, see you a problem for the us government. you reform
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a detainee. i think i have, you know, sorry. i asked that question for the last 15 years. i spent that went and i will try to find out what was, what was the problem being there 1st, when i was a q to be euro and 9 of insider. so historically i was the 2nd year of history after like sender, after 15 years or almost like 15 years, i was told it was a mistake and identity and it is unclear, are joined and not as a guy, you know, the guy, the guy that told me we cannot get a, we did turn on and it's not 15 years. i would love to say something about what that was. that was a big mess up like we know be what you're seeing, that don't get adversity or none of it, which i'm actually trying to find out. what led to that? and i love it since i want. and i asked everyone what the reason that they wanted to not have been to have been one the i didn't up outside of the law. there is no
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legal basis for that place. so it will be hard for the next day to percent at the speed that those brothers, they're at the same time, we weren't the worst of the worst tourist in the planet that would promote it, proposed to get them up to the world. so over and over again, last month or 2 months ago, the thin met when 6 republicans sent a letter to by the and asked him to close 110 because the remain detainees are the worse the worst there have been i getting with during the didn't go but i'm restriction when congress displayed may i want to say, i want to know that i'm going to be because the told the worst, the worst thirst, as you know, according to the illegal with that 86 percent of the details wondering where either
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a mistaken identity or so for bond money. now let's bring in jasmine alga mall and it's tumble jasmine. this is a political problem and it very much seems to me that the republicans, the language a using and often blocking any attempts to close down 100 is very simple. these are bad guys and if we release them, they're going to come and get us. now is there any truck with that argument? is that any honesty and the argument you know, the short answer is no, and i'm not a political person at all. so this is, this is not a political answer your question. the fact is that from the very beginning, one tunnel bay was an extremely political. c political topic and the creation of one carnival bay was based on here based policy. is that the bush administration in response to $911.00, we were afraid we made a lot of bad choices and
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a lot of wrong choices. and one final day was one of them, and my, your other guest on the show that was there, unfortunately, at the of the detainees made a very good point. and he said that over 80 percent of the trainees were released at some point that we were asking for. we were offering money to anyone who would offer us forces. an arab was living in a stand because we thought that all arabs living in a stand must be hide and must be out to get us. so there were all of these problems like structural problems at the beginning. once we got these detainees, one animal bay, i arrived in the summer 2004. and i started working on something called the administrative review boards that basically looked at every detainees story and then was able to determine whether they were in fact there wrongly or rightly,
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and most of them were the so i guess we, we seem to have lost, you that i'm going to come back to mind, i want to bring in kenneth ross here in new york. you jasmine was saying that this is very much a political is a structural problem, but there's a bigger problem when it comes to actually trying to shut it down because there is no real legal framework that the united states can rely on to put them on trial because these are 3rd party nationals. is that right? no, that's not right. in other words, if somebody commits terrorism against the united states that it's easy to prosecute, and indeed, you don't had the alleged masterminds of 911 been brought to a regular federal court. you know, in downtown manhattan, their trial would have been completed years ago. in fact, there had been hundreds of terrorism trials completed, including, you know, frankly, of the so called 20th hijacker, who was convicted in federal court. so there's,
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there would have been no problem with trying people, but the u. s. government didn't want to go before the regular shot records. you know, totally. first of the logical reasons, it's that these people are not criminals, their enemy combatants. now, i don't know why being called an enemy combat is worse than being called, you know, terrorists criminal. indeed it almost to be seen as a badge of honor. but there was, you know, that was one line of thinking. and then the other line of thinking, as i mentioned is you know, we know that many of the suspects for torture. khalid shaikh mohammed, the legit, you know? she mastermind the 911, was said there was been water boarded at least 183 times. the u. s. government doesn't want the evidence of back coming out. indeed it wants to somehow find ways to be able to use the fruits of the interrogation. they brought in so called, you know, clean interrogation team, so you know, after he's been tortured and torturing torture. and then they bring in somebody new and say ok now to give us here at the same statement voluntarily, you know, and now that you know, may survive. you know,
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the make shift military commissions. it's very unlikely that survived scrutiny and irregular of federal court. so these are the problems, you know, it's the ology, it's the torture that stand in the way of criminal prosecutions, but ordinarily, federal courts are there and can be used for criminal prosecution of terrorist. now the other thing it's worth mentioning is that reading aside the issue of prosecution, as johnson said, you know, most of the people in guantanamo, you know, a lot of them are just fair because they were picked up because of counties. and they will never really found have done anything but the theory that the u. s. government used to detain people without charges that represents the vast, vast majority of the 780 or so people who have been through montana, the theory they used is that these are the enemy combatants in a global war on terror. that was the bush administration. and, you know, under international law, if you are at war, you know, classic state the state war with a battlefield. if you capture combat and on the other side,
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you can detain the combat and without charges until the end of the war, the bush administration and stretch that theory to make it a global concepts. you know, even though there was, you know, there was a battlefield in afghan, a fan, but there was no global battlefield. but they said, look at this is a global war. anybody picked up who was had to have been involved in terrorism without even charges, can be held, the enemy combatant until the end of that global war on terror, which may be an endless war, and they never come. and that theory has never been formally repudiated. you know, the obama administration stop using it and buying doesn't like it, but they've never declared an end to the so called global war on terror to faith. you know, from now on, we're going to use classic long foresman techniques. we're going to arrest people. we're going to prosecute them. we're not gonna just attain them on forever as enemy combatants or worse. you know, we're not going to use drones to summarily show them in places like yemen, when they don't pose an imminent fraction when there's been no attempts to try to detain that philosophy as it was bringing it because i went ahead to onto
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a couple of your points, i'm on sewer, we will come to you very shortly. jasmine, you are an advisor to the pentagon at the department of defense, you were part of those discussions about whether it should be closed or not, but there seems to be pushed back on closing guantanamo bay down. it was seen as a necessity, wasn't it? yeah, so i actually worked under the obama administration. i was not a political appointee. i was civil servants, but i might my, my year span both from the obama administration. and so i can tell you 1st county that president obama definitely tried to close down one day. he appointed 2 people, one of the state department and one of the defense department who are in charge of reviewing cases and bringing them to the highest levels of the, of the national security council to review review those cases and recommending a release or otherwise. so i definitely will push back on can kind of point that
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the u. s. does not want to close down one final day. so 1st of all, president obama was making a concerted effort to do so. pointing to envoys of the state and defense departments to do so. but another something that has not been mentioned that that have been part of the difficulty and closing down on cono bay. if that's when we decided to release somebody one final day. we have to release them either to their home country or to a 3rd country if their home country wouldn't take them. and in many to in all cases, we have to we have to receive assurances from that country that we were sending them to, that they would not be tortured or detained, or unfairly treated once they got back. and in many cases, we actually were not able to receive those assurances from the home countries. we would start looking for 3rd countries, but it was really difficult to find any country that wanted to take them because
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they were so keen that unfortunately by the one animal brown take the case of the week or for example, all of the leaders that were in guantanamo bay, where they're completely erroneous. we, we thought they were fighting us, but it turns out they were in training counts. and again, us down, learning how to fight, whether they can go back and protect themselves against the chinese. i mean, just somebody we couldn't find anywhere. well, let's break somebody who is behind. we couldn't find any country right. right in months or go ahead. we months or day we're in belgrade, you're in a 3rd country. we you sold to bill. great effectively. is that what happened to you? yeah, this is a deal actually basically do those countries. you also want to, as you know, i not a deal from the i said it's not like a deal or woman restriction. she mentioned that he wanted to produce that detention, but when he found out that he couldn't do it because it's less than that the
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congress imposed. so he tried to free as many as he called because those we were, many of us were clear in 2009 or 20141415. so it is tany restoring and 2 other agreements, resettlement with the agreement. and you're not state of those countries, some kind of like the attention of integration program when the package, it is also a budget for this program. but the money in the, in the black hole and the 3rd country took. i bought it to them as like they might be afraid something would. but if you look in europe here, for example, i mean if we got there is more rates are pretty recent than because for the last year i had been conducting the research of rehabilitation of integration with former want. and i want to need as part of my bus or degree so i have to keep track of money problem. the problem is in the, in the rest of the country, there is a lack of rehabilitation or integration program, harassment, new state,
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those new gun, luna can program that can help detainee the lead detainee to fit them to society and become a productive member. if you see an example in germany, you know, man in pop out in the day, the detainees read the chinese pit, and so i t, their move that lives, they get married jobs and so on. so basically in my case, particularly i was 1st to come to serbia, they told me you have no choice in the rough, rough one, and i'm, or only i was forced to leave or sit in the chair and shipped to serbia in my case . now kenneth, what's the human rights position here under international law month, who was forced to go to serbia? it wasn't given a choice. is that a violation of human rights? i mean, i think it as jasmine noted, the obama administration did make sincere efforts to resettle people appointed
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a special envoy of the faith department. and you know, they rightfully insisted on finding countries that would not torture people. but they also were looking for countries that would, you know, maintain some degree of security surveillance on, you know, the original unfairness, frankly, is being detained and on time on the bit with no due process at all. but if i could let me just put a bit of a qualification on, on jasmine point that obama wanted to for one time. i mean, in principle, yes, i'm in reality, she wouldn't take 2 steps. but to this day, are the main impediments for the by the administration. that is, you know, 1st he made an initial effort to move the trial from the sub standard military commissions to federal court in new york. there was political opposition and he caved in. and so now there is actually legislation against which obama law goes through the 2nd. i mean, i remember speaking with obama directly, and i said, you know, would you abide by the principle of either prosecuting people before legitimate federal court or releasing?
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and he said, no i, there's a 3rd category, people who we don't have the evidence to prosecute, you know, either because a torture or whatever and to remain too dangerous to release. and that is the, by the ministrations position to this day as well. and you know, undoubtedly there are a handful people in want to know to have not half the security review were deemed to still pose a threat. but i think you have to look at that in the perspective of the world, you know, are, do they pose a greater threat than the gazillion of other people out there who might want to do the united states harm and use that threat? a handful of individuals in fact, really outweigh the threat caused by the existence of guantanamo which continues to stay, to be around and try for terrorist recruiters who love the site. wanted to know as evidence of the injustice of the us efforts to fight in the way that it dest terrace. so i think that there is, you know, that becomes, at the set, the obama ministrations are still problems facing the, by the ministration. and i hope that they can find
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a way to move beyond that to either, you know, basically to bring the candidates, let's get into, let's get into that. let's get into the future. jasmine, i mean kenneth is right, the problem that the problems that a bama hadn't shutting down still remained to this day with this new administration . are they going to be any more successful you know, less than it's hard to say, but i wanted to just make a quick point that is related to your question. but just to kind of point about, you know, bringing these detainees to the u. s. to be tried, i think that we have to remember, and we have to also pay respect and an honor, the victims of these terrorist attacks that really, really spells incredible pain and anguish at the thought of these detainees. i'm talking about the very high level ones, the ones that we know were responses all not, i'm not talking about the ones that were, you know, wrong. we just pain at the sight of them coming to new york to the u. s. to the
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very, for oil, the day a half, you know, and, and changed the country forever. and how much of a huge narrative booth than how much of a huge p r to that would have been to these terrorists to come to new york city. and to basically stand in front of these victims all you know, this would have been a victory for al qaeda to be tried. ready would have been or closure one of the firemen for the family. no 911 picked him. they would not, it's not very clear the cache a court case and the conviction would i understand. so you and i may think that right, but that's obviously not what the family thought and it's not what if you look at and this is like a slightly tangential topic. but if you, 1st of all, i think we should respect what the families wanted. not what you and i think even though i might agree with the families,
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did not want these people coming to us boil and talking about their ideology and their victory against the united states in a us court room. and i think we should respect that. and i think that the end of the day president obama respected that, that, that feeling and up we, but also if you look at the way that these organizations recruit. and this actually bring to today because i know that part of the program you want to talk about the implications for what's happening today. if you look at the way that i'll hide and i waged the war against the west and against their enemies, the p. r aspect with a huge aspect of it. every single thing mattered. everything was a part of that battle. coming to new york would have been a huge victory for them because they would have said, look, i have a lot for me to speak about what the things that i've done to this country. they're giving me a form after i have them really running handle running out of time. kenneth,
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i understand that you do want to say, but we have actually run out of time. due process is something that we need to get into it. another program, sadly, but i do want to thank all august month to day fee, jasmine el camino and kenneth ross. and thank you to watch it. you can see the program again anytime by this thing, a website out there at dot com. and for further discussion goes, well facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. we are at asia inside story for me and ron khan and the whole team hit by for now. the news news. news.
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news. the how many nukes is too many news america has in many ways driven the arms race parties are much more like the british parties down to the there are fewer regulations to own a tiger than their our own. a dog. how can this be happening? your weekly take on us politics and, and that's the bottom line. when the news break on wednesday, it was the 8th largest fire in california history, when people need to be home and the people who are writing even know what i am with exclusive interviews. for 4th, 0 teams on the ground with intensifying rain. people here appear that these are temporary solutions to bring. you move toward winning document trees and live need it was meant to be there day. you just hear the cameras going quickly. but
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a project attack stunned the world, and the u. s. president, a guy came in and whispered something into the prisoner's ear. what did he just waited for? the school children present? the events of september, the 11th, defined the world. they grew up in just a huge moment. these are their stories. 911, witness on al jazeera. ah, the health of humanity is at the stake. a global pandemic requires a global response. w h o is the guardian of global health delivering life saving tools, supplies, and training to help the world's most vulnerable people. lighting across borders to speed up the development of tests, treatments and the vaccine keeping you up to date with what's happening on the ground. in the ward and in the lab. now more than ever the world needs
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w h. making a healthy a world for you everyone the . ready news i've had them c k in doha, with the top stories on geneva. the chief of the us nuclear watchdog says his talks in iran have averted a show down between the slamming republic and the west. iran has agreed to allow inspectors to install memory cards in surveillance cameras at its sensitive nuclear sites. the coming together of the jigsaw puzzle will come when that he's an agreement at the j c p level. but at that time, we will have all this. ready information and there will not have been a gap. so i think.


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