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tv   [untitled]    September 13, 2021 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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to head 53. now in 54 to jump into that has been narrowed. i know that story, that new med with the, has produced the children's life they played it is struggling open final this year . it's pretty straightforward to, to jock image and maybe to. busy learn from that experience. this is the final of the majors and his 1st grand slam championship. ah, hello again. i'm fully back with the headlines on al jazeera eunice. i says, warning that close to a 1000000 children and i've got a son threatened by severe acute malnutrition, the united nation secretary general is holding a donors conference in geneva this monday, aiming to raise 600000000 dollars to avoid a humanitarian crisis. situation in afghanistan has also been on the agenda talks between cotton's foreign minister and his french counterpart, johnny villareal,
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mom. a been directional, funny says cut times role is neutral and phase. he asks taliban leaders to engage with the international community. as we stated from the beginning, the position of the state of thought that as a mediator in the 1st place has been, has remained in portion. and we have said that oscillation will never be announcer . recognition is not a priority, but engagement is the only way for what for all of us love, i spend a lot for them on the afghan people should enjoy all their freedoms, including women's rights and above all, to civil relations related to terrorism and allow the delivery of aid and also to have an all inclusive interim government. these were out demands. the response from couple so far is not up to our expectation. we have heard the statements made and we are waiting for the actions. we will continue to exercise pressure on the taliban to fulfill their commitments and lebanon is said to receive $1000000000.00 from the international monetary fund to help struggling economy. the country's new
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cabinet has been holding its 1st meeting since being appointed last week. billionaire business manager, mccarthy took charge us prime minister after 13 months of deadlock, which plunged the country deeper into economic crisis. in nigeria, hundreds of people have escaped from a prison in the northern feet of covey, following an a time by an identified gunman, their report, some guards have been killed. japan says north korea is threatening the regions, peace and safety after launch a new type. of course, miss sy several flew up to 1500 kilometers during testing the weekend. and flights and trained services in china's largest city have been cancelled as the typhoon approaches shown to was blasting. winds of more than a 150 kilometers an hour as it moved up the coast toward shanghai, schools, offices and shops have been shot. those are the headlines on our jesse i will have more news for you after and 5 story stay with
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me. ah ah ah, it's already a symbol of you know, if you want her going turn on monday is where prisoners were tortured and denied their rights. most released without charge. why is it still open? 20 is off that the september 11th attacks. there is an eyesore ah ah ah. hello, welcome to the program. i'm in ron khan. one side of my bay opened in the shadow
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the 911 attacks 20 years ago. was meant to be a temporary detention center for the biggest threats to us national security, as part of the so called war on terror. but the place soon became notorious for human rights abuses. at its peak, it held at $780.00 detainees most without charge. some were tortured using techniques such as water boarding, they had no protection on the u. s. or international law, and no access to a fair trial. 39 prison is still there, including the alleged mastermind of the september 11th attacks. president joe biden has promised to close it by 2024, but his administration faces many legal and political challenges. i don't have a timeline for you, as you know there's a process. there are different layers of the process, but that remains our goal and we are considering all available avenues to responsibly transfer detainees. and of course, close guantanamo bay. the prison was established at the u. s. space in guantanamo
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bay, southeast of cuba, in january, 2002 former president brock obama failed to shut it down off the congress, imposed limits on the transfer of its detainees. and donald trump pledged to keep the prison open and loaded up with those he called bad dudes. president joe biden is being challenged by some republicans who see the release of detainees as a threat to us security. his administration is trying to secure guarantees that the detainees will get humane treatment in the home country or 3rd countries will resettle them. for a 5 terabyte members released in 2014, in exchange for american soldier. and now members of the new taliban government, and up on the, on the let's bring it out. guess in belgrade, man saw a de fee, a former guantanamo detainees at guantanamo coordinator for kj human rights advocacy organization. and i saw mo,
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jasmine l. got our senior managers amena at the institute for strategic dialogue and a former pentagon, middle east advisor and in new york. kenneth ross, executive director of human rights watch. welcome to the program. let's begin in new york with you kind of thrust roth and possibly the most obvious question. why is guantanamo base still open? well, there are various reasons. part of it is that a number of the people there are a minority, have been charged criminal re, but have not been brought before. regular court are being tried before these make shift military commission. that the u. s. government establish basically to cover up its torch. they felt it contrived, they could control the trial proceedings better, but these military commissions and prevent evidence of the torture from coming out . but these commissions don't pretend to provide real justice and they've been subject to all kinds of challenges and problems. and as a result,
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they're going nowhere. i remember going to guantanamo in 2012. so 9 years ago, for the opening charge of the arraignment against the 5 reading mastermind suspects for $911.00. and there still has not been a trial. so one of the problems is, you know, how do you move toward a fair system of justice for the hand, for people who are being charged. as for the rest, the us government has actually impose legislation prohibiting the spending of money to send people back to the united states. so the government needs to find other places to take them, which is done for, you know, most of what, at one point with 780 people at one time. there are $39.00 last, still a majority of never been charged. and some of them the u. s government is, is moving toward trying to put someplace else, but there's relative handful that it believes still are dangerous. but they can't charge them. they don't really have any crime that they can take that they committed. and, you know, that's the problem. and frankly, i think it's
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a made up problem because if you look around the world, there are many, many people who wish the united states har if they had the opportunity might research a terrorist, a tiny handful in guantanamo, but the reason now the, by the ministration to frankly, this is true for the early ones as well. doesn't want to release them as they don't want political responsibility for what might, what happened you to, to this handful of people. you mentioned the opening that, you know, some of the 100 detainees, former detainees are now in the taliban government. and that's the kind of political problem the us government doesn't like. obviously the taliban has many, many abusive people. that it can feel that government where, you know, the spies have been chosen really, i think just kind of, you know, hope the united states. but you know, that said the, by the ministrations afraid of what in the us called the willie horton. that is, you know, if you release somebody who commits a crime, then you're politically responsible for it. and so i think it's really politics
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more than anything else that at this stage is standing in the way of actually quoting. well, it's bring one of those so called problems into the conversation, months or a day, see you a problem for the us government. you are a for when detainee. i think i have, you know, sorry, i ask that question for the last 15 years. i spent that going to and i will try to find out what was, what was the problem being there. first of all i was, it was euro and 9 of it's either. so historically i was the 2nd year on history after like center, after 15 years or almost like 15 years, i was told it was mistaken identity and it is unclear, are joined, not as a guy you, guy, the guy that, that told me we can just say we did turn on in a month for 15 years. i would love to say something about that. one thing with a big mess up like we know be what you're seeing that don't get adversity of none
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of it, which i'm actually trying to find out. what led to that? and i love it since once. and i asked everyone what the reason that they wanted to not have to happen once the i didn't up outside of the law, there is no legal basis for that place. so it will be hard for the next day to percent of the skewed the brothers. there are the same time we were born, there's the worst of the worst tourist in the planet that would promote it, proposed to get them up to the world. so over and over again, last month or 2 months ago, the thin met when 6 level consent letter 2 by the and asked him to close $110.00 because the roman detainees are the worst of the worst that i have been getting with during the go button. administration, when congress displayed may i, when they said,
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i want to know that i'm going to be because the told the worst is the worst thirst, as you know, according to the law that 86 percent of the detainer. wondering where either a mistaken identity or so for bond money. now let's bring in jasmine alga mall and stumble. jasmine, this is a political problem and it very much seems to me that the republicans, the language using and often blocking any attempts to close dangling is very simple . these are bad guys, and if we release them, they're going to come and get us. now, is there any truck with that argument? is there any honesty in the argument you know, the short answer is no, and i'm not a political person at all. so this is, this is not a political answer your question. the fact is that from the very beginning, one tunnel bay was an extremely political. c political topic and the creation of
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one continental bay was based on here based policy. is that the bush administration in response to $911.00, we were afraid we made a lot of bad choices and a lot of wrong choices. and 100 bay was one of them, and my, your other guests on the show that was there, unfortunately, at the of the detainees made a very good point. and he said that over 80 percent of the detainees were released at some point that we were asking for. we were offering money to anyone who would offer us forces. an arab was living in a stand because we thought that all our living in a stand must be i'll be out to get us. so there were all of these problems like structural problems at the beginning. once we got these detainees to one animal bay, i arrived in the summer, 2004. and i started working on something called the administrative review boards.
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that basically looked at every detail needs for re and, and was able to determine whether they were in fact there wrongly or rightly and most of them were and so i guess we seem to have lost you that i'm gonna come back to mind, but i want to bring in kenneth ross here in new york, you want jasmine was saying that this is a very much a political, it's a structural problem, but there's a bigger problem when it comes to actually trying to shut it down because there is no real legal framework that the united states can rely on to put them on trial because these are 3rd party nationals. is that right? no, that's not right, right. in other words, if somebody, you know, commits terrorism against the united states, that it's easy to prosecute. and indeed, you know, had a legit masterminded 911. been brought to a regular federal court, you know, in downtown manhattan, their trial would have been completed years ago. in fact,
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you know, there had been hundreds of terrorism trials completed, including, you know, frankly, of the so called 20th hijacker, who was convicted in, in federal court. so there's, there would have been no problem with trying people. but the u. s. government didn't want to go before the regular you know, totally. first of the logical reasons that said these people are not criminals, their enemy combatants. now, i don't know why being called an enemy combatants worse than being called into a terrorist criminal. indeed it almost to be seen as a badge of honor. but there was, you know, that was one line of thinking. and then the other line of thinking, as i mentioned is you know, we know that many of the suspects for torture, khalid shaikh mohammed, the legit, you know, she, mastermind of 911 with that there was been water boarded at least 183 times the u. s. government doesn't want the evidence of that coming out. indeed, it wants to somehow find ways to be able to use the fruits of the interrogation they brought in so called, you know, clean interrogation teams. so, you know,
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after he's been tortured and torturing, tortured, then they bring in somebody new and say, ok. now to give us here at the same statement voluntarily, you know, and now that you know, may survive. you know, the make shift military commissions. it's very unlikely that they would survive scrutiny and irregular of federal court. so these are the problems. you know, it's the ology, it's the torture that stand in the way of criminal prosecutions. but ordinarily, federal courts are there and can be used for criminal prosecution to terrorists. now the other thing it's worth mentioning is that reading aside the issue of prosecution, as johnson said, you know, most of the people in guantanamo, you know, a lot of them are just fair because they were picked up because of keys. they were never really founded on anything but the theory that the u. s. government used to detain people without charges that represents the vast, vast majority of the 780 or so people who have been through montana. if terry, they used to said these are the enemy combatants in a global war on terror. that was the bush administration's church. and you know,
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under international law, if you are at war classic state to state war with a battle field. if you capture combat and on the other side, you can detain the combatant without charges until the end of the war. the bush administration then stretch that theory to make it a global concepts. you know, even though there is, if there was, you know, there was a battlefield, an afghan, a fan, but there was no global battlefield. but they said, look at this is a global war. anybody picked up who was had to have been involved in terrorism without even charges, can be held, the enemy combatant until the end of that global war on terror, which may be an endless war, and they never come. and that theory has never been formally repudiated. you know, the obama demonstration stop using it and buying doesn't like it, but they've never declared an end to the so called global war on terror. safe, you know, from now on, we're going to use classic long foresman techniques. we're going to arrest people. we're going to prosecute them. we're not gonna just attain them forever as enemy combatants or worse. you know,
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we're not going to use drones to summarily show them in places like yemen, when they don't posed an imminent fraction where there's been no attempts to try to detain them for. let's say we're getting here because i went ahead to arms were a couple of points. i'm sure we will come to you very shortly. johnson, you are an advisor to the pentagon at the department of defense. you were part of those discussions about whether should be closed or not, but there seems to be pushback. on closing one ton of bay down it was seen as a necessity wasn't yeah, so i actually work under the obama administration. i was not a political appointee. i was civil servants, but i might my, my year spans both firms of the obama administration. and so i can tell you 1st county that president obama definitely tried to close down one day. he appointed 2 people, one of the state departments and one of the defense department who are in charge of
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reviewing cases and bringing them to the highest levels of the, of the national security council to review review those cases and recommending a release or otherwise. so i definitely will push back on can kind of point that the u. s. does not want to close down one final day. so 1st of all, president obama was making a concerted effort to do so. pointing to envoys of the state and defense departments to do so. but another something that has not been mentioned that that has been part of the difficulty and closing down on cono bay is that's when we decided to release somebody one final day. we have to release them either to their home country or to a 3rd country if their home country wouldn't take them. and in many to in all cases, we have to we have to receive assurances from that country that we were sending them to, that they would not be tortured or detained, or unfairly treated once they got back. and in many cases,
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we actually were not able to receive those assurances from the home countries. we would start looking for 3rd countries, but it was really difficult to find any country that wanted to take them because they were so keen that unfortunately by the one animal, brown's take the case of the week or for example, all of the leaders that were in guantanamo bay, where they're completely erroneous. we, we thought they were fighting us, but it turns out they were training counts. and again, us down, learning how to fight, whether they can go back and protect themselves against the chinese. i mean, just somebody we couldn't find anywhere. well, let's break somebody who is behind. we couldn't find any country right. right in months or go ahead. we months all day you are in belgrade. you're in a 3rd country. will you sold to bill? great. busy effectively, is that what happened to you? yeah, this is a deal actually basically do those countries. you also want to,
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you know, i not a deal from the said it's not like a did or didn't get one that restriction. she mentioned that he wanted to go to do the detention, but when he found out that he couldn't do it before that because listen that the congress imposed. so he tried to free as much as not as many as he caught because those we were many of us were clear in 2009 or 20141450. so it is janie recently, there was an agreement visit element with the agreement element. you're not state of those countries. some kind of like attention integration program when the package, it is also a budget for this program. but the money in the, in the black hole and the 3rd country will not talk about it to them, as they said, like they might be afraid. something if you look in europe here, for example, i mean, if we got there it's more rate or pretty recent than because for the last year i had been conducting the research of rehabilitation or integration from one thing i
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wanted to use as part of my bus or degree d. c. so i have to keep track of money problem. the problem is in the, in the rest of the country, there is a lack of rehabilitation or integration program, harassment. negative status needed can really kind of program that can help. tany, the lead that they need to fit into society and become a productive member. if you see an example in germany, you know, man and pop out or in day the detainees, the chinese and psyche, they're moving that lives, they get married jobs and so on. so basically in my case, particularly i was forced to come to serbia, they told me you have no choice in the rough, rough one, and i'm only, i was forced to leave. i was sitting bit chair and shipped to serbia in my case. now kenneth was the human rights position here on the international law month, who was forced to go to serbia. it wasn't given a choice. is that
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a violation of human rights? i mean, i think it as jasmine noted, the obama administration did make sincere efforts to resettle people appointed a special envoy of the faith department. and you know, they rightfully insisted on finding countries that would not torture people. but they also were looking for countries that would, you know, maintain some degree of security surveillance on, you know, the original unfairness, frankly, is being detained and on top of it with no due process at all. but if i could let me just put a bit of a qualification on, on jasmine point that obama wanted to for one time. i mean, in principle, yes, i'm in reality, she wouldn't take 2 steps. but to this day, are the main impediment for the by the administration. that is, you know, 1st he made an initial effort to move the trial from the sub standard military commissions to federal court in new york. there was political opposition and he caved in. and so now there's actually legislation against which obama. why don't we
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go through the 2nd? i mean, i remember speaking with obama directly on this. i said, you know, would you abide by the principle of either prosecuting people before a legitimate federal court or releasing? and he said, no i, there's a 3rd category, people who we don't have the evidence to prosecute, you know, either because a torture or whatever and who remain too dangerous to release. and that is the, by the ministrations position to this day as well. and you know, undoubtedly there are a handful people in want to know who have not half the security review were deemed to still pose a threat. but i think you have to look at that in the perspective of the world, you know, are, do they pose a greater threat than the gazillion of other people out there who might want to do the united states harm and use that threat? a handful of individuals in fact, really outweigh the threat caused by the existence of guantanamo which continues to stay, to be around and try for terrorist recruiters who love the site one channel as evidence of the injustice of the us efforts to fight in the way that it,
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dest terrorist. so i think that there is, you know, that becomes, at the set, the obama ministrations are still problems facing the, by the ministration. and i hope that they can find a way to move beyond that to either, you know, basically to bring the candidates, let's get into it. let's get into that. let's get into the future. jasmine, i mean kenneth is right, the problem that the problems that a bama hadn't shutting down still remained to this day with this new administration . are they going to be any more successful you know, less than it's hard to say, but i wanted to just make a quick point that is related to your question. but just to kind of point about, you know, bringing these detainees to the u. s. to be tried, i think that we have to remember, and we have to also pay respect and an honor. the victims of these terrorist attacks that really, really felt incredible pain and anguish at the thought of these detainees. i'm
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talking about the very high level ones, the ones that we know were responses all not, i'm not talking about the ones that were, you know, wrong. we just pain at the sight of them coming to new york to the u. s. to the very, for oil, the day a half, you know, when and changed the country forever. and how much of a huge narrative booth than how much of a huge p r to that would have been to these terrorists to come to new york city. and to basically stand in front of these victims. all you know, this would have been a victory for al qaeda to be tried. would have been or closure one of the firemen for the family, you know, 911 victims. they would not, i'm not convey a court case when that conviction would i understand. so you and i may think that right, but that's obviously not what the family's thought and it's not what if you look at
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and this is like a slightly tangential topic. but if you, 1st of all, i think we should respect what the families wanted, not what you. and i think even though i might agree with the families, did not want these people coming to us foil and talking about their ideology and their victory against the united states in a us court room. and i think we should respect that. and i think at the end of the day, president obama respected that, that, that feeling and that we, but also if you look at the way that these organizations recruit this actually bring to today because i know that part of the program you want to talk about the implications for what's happening today. if you look at the way that i'll hide and i said, waged the war against the west and against their enemies, the p. r. aspect with a huge aspect of it. every single thing mattered. everything was a part of that battle, coming to new york would have been a huge victory for them because they would have said, look, i have a platform to speak about what the things that i've done to this country. they're
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giving me a platform after i have them really running handle running out of time. kenneth, i understand that you do want to say, but we have actually run out of time. due process is something that we need to get into it. another program, sadly, but i do want to thank all guess, month to day fee, jasmine, elgar mole, and kenneth ross. and thank you to watch it. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website out there at dot com. and for further discussion for facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. we are at asia inside story from me, iran con and the whole team hit by for now. the news
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news, news, news, news. china has been very strategic in the way to expand ligand switch in indian ocean. what is it? and we bring you the stories and developments that are rapidly changing the world we live in without the international aid. what do you think is going to happen? the kind of common counting the coast on al jazeera, getting close to the people most affected by those in power is often dangerous, but it's absolutely vital to stories. if you tell lots of subsided in this area, we push this far forward as we came to the front line. now, the smell of death is overpowering. a lot of the stories that we cover all highly complex, so it's very important that we make them as understandable as we can to as many
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you knew your neck out here. how many nukes there's too many new america has in many ways driven the arms race parties are much more like the british parties down to the there are fewer regulations to own a tiger than there are to own a dog. how can this be happening? your weekly take on us politics and, and that's the bottom line. ah, there i'm the star and our hall with the headlines for you here on our 0. unicef is warning close to a 1000000 children enough. enough. galveston are threatened by severe acute manual attrition. and the un secretary general is currently holding a donors conference, as you can see that in geneva. aiming to raise $600000000.00 to avoid a humanitarian crisis. dramatic editor james bays is following that for us from geneva.


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