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tv   [untitled]    November 30, 2021 8:30pm-9:01pm AST

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quite calm, possibly signaling a renewed confidence in the national electoral process. by monday evening election officials said opposition candidates your magic, astro had a commanding lead but added that a winter cannot be officially announced until every boat has been counted. manuel did up a little al jazeera, the goose he got ponderous. ah, this is all. these are the tell stories you can and troops of crossed into democratic republic of congo is part of a coordinated operation to combat beyond the known as allied democratic forces. and comes weeks after 3 suicide bomb attacks income. paula killed several people, security voices of fire, tear gas at anti military protesters in sudan and outside the presidential polish. and come to me, many went last week, deal with the military scraps. it's all i've done. a hummed up reinstated, as prime minister give them all that is good,
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more formal talk to the crowd out because of last week, the agreement between the army and prime minister, how do they rejected that? because when the military take over happened in late october, there are 3 knows where north and he goes to asians. no, to compromise and know that any legitimacy that can be given to the military take over now for them, the fact that prime minister, i haven't signed an agreement with the army that has given legitimacy to that take over. and it's a compromise from what they've been demanding. they've been demanding a complete civilian rule with the army, having no role in them politics. but for them that is now a compromise and a result of negotiations. all things that they've been repeatedly saying no to since october 25th, but the able to take over the us secretary of state wards, russia, that any aggression in ukraine will trigger serious consequences under the blankets attending a meeting of nato foreign ministers to discuss rushes, build up of truce ukraine's border. france, it says iran must engage constructively in discussions to salvage for 2050 nuclear
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deal. representatives from russia, china, germany, france, and the u. k. met iranian officials in vienna on monday to have one sanction lifted in return for limits on its nuclear program. a far right commentator in france's analyses that are run in next year's presidential elections. attic similar is known for its hard line anti immigration views and attacks, and this is facing charges of incitement, virtual hatred, after making comments. what unaccompanied child migraines, sharing a broadcast it was convicted and find on similar charges in 2011. this time, next year. cut out will be hosting the fee for the world cup and in preparation for golf nation stage of the major test tournament for our cup, which kicked off today. the opening ceremony took place in the last hours of the headlines coming up next on august. it's going to be inside story. goodbye me
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getting it back seems in a pledge to continue funding development across africa. the can china avoid criticism over taking advantage of natural resources and startling, developing nations with unsustainable says, this is inside story. ah, ah ah, hello the hello robin. welcome to the program. chinese president cheating ping has promised african nations 1000000000 corona virus vaccines and it's pledge to continue economic investment in the region. she made the comment virtually as part
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of the annual for among the china africa corporation. as the to day summit in synagogue comes to a close. china emphasized how crucial a partnership is. china is africa, largest trading partner with nearly $190000000000.00 in trade. so let's take a closer look at china is long term investment plans in africa. chinese foreign direct investment in the continent was almost $3000000000.00 in 2020, totaling all these $50000000000.00 ever all, almost a 3rd of that investment has gone into the construction infrastructure development areas. now that helped make china africa's biggest trading partner. it's also given china premier access to much needed rule materials to fuel economy is the largest importer of copper and cobalt from africa, most of it extracted by chinese finance companies. but this investment has also come with a heavy debt burden. chinese finance comes with an average full point, 2 percent interest rate far higher than other international options.
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the well, it's bringing august. joining me from nairobi as hassan can n g, the director of horn international institute for strategic studies in london, anthony goldman. he's the head of pro media consulting, which advises companies and institutions on business and political risk in africa. and from beijing, china we have and the market senior research fellow at the center for china and globalization. a welcome gentleman to all of you, mr. can, you can just give you the 1st question. i mean to understand china is contact with africa. we have to sort of go back to its origin and 1st contact you might say between the 2 continents, nearly 500 years ago. back in the 15th century, early trade was that initial contact that they had. it was very important and it still remains important today. it is indeed true that the interruption between china on the continent got back hundreds of years ago at the time of cause that
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preceded colonialism. and this is something that is also been established based on the evidence of any questions along that and call along leased up in quote that actually go back about a 1000 years ago. now the actions were significantly mortified, of course, in the following, the 2nd world war in which after the coming to power at the tomb, the communist party. so he failed to work with a lot of liberation movements for the continent. and they remained very supportive, especially on the left wing side of african politics and much of the cold war. and they being that these, these paying me to, especially in the cold war period in we're trying to soften train us lessons, father by publishing a more presidency dumb. so, robot economic as well as military, then bringing in to the golden there because you've very neatly brought me to that post 2nd world war period and the cold war. andy, that obviously saw china,
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you might say, come in under the radar, dare i say it into, into africa, to deal with those governments or more left leaning, more sympathetic clinical trial itself. and i'm quoting hippa mounts you don't hear what he also described himself in china. as being part of the 3rd world they, they recognise and has an affiliation with parts of africa that was very important and building up the relationship. yes, i think that as part of that, i think that there were projects that are in china began to engage with following on from that support for countries in southern africa. so for example, building infrastructure we're way between 10000 year and san via the seen as a kind of a landmark thing of in, in the 1970 to landmark achievement in terms of infrastructure. mostly, i think,
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in that period of the cold, well, the most visible presence was actually the tension between china and taiwan. and you could give to african capitals and see the competition if you like, between taiwanese built a policy or a chinese built a national stadium and in the center. this is an echo, some of that competition, even today or china is still anxious that countries in africa didn't look too far to, to taiwan for support. but on the whole, i think the tilt, since the end of the cold war has been much more in favor of china bill, your actual economic ties based solely around strategy and diplomacy is support for the ever increasing ever demand chinese industry. i'm bringing on the mark that you want to come in hearing our 2 previous speakers there and in, without giving off you as a full history lesson which this program is not. certainly, chinese influence in the region and on the continent has been long standing and
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continues to be certainly after this conversational virtual conversation they've had this year. no indeed. so he'll, so i would just very briefly start with $949.00 with the founding of the people's republic of china. and you quoted dr. jones, i think from j, one of the establishment of new china. the philosophy has been to treat africa with the spirit of sincerity, genuine cooperation and mutual respect. and i think that is a common thread decades since 1949 to today in terms of understanding the relationship between china and content. would you say, though, that you say they want to try and treat all of those countries with equal respect? but there was also this cold war between russia and the united states of russia and the west. and they wanted to gain influence in africa as well. do. ready you think
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that china itself at that time was also very mindful of what its position could be or should be in the future if and when the cold war ended. you know, certainly, and the world has changed tremendously since the early fifties. so geopolitically, of course, we've seen the cold war between the soviet union, right, states and trying to played an important part of that g o. strategically. and from that perspective, i think certainly africa has been seen as a battleground, maybe even a playground for, of course, colonial powers. and i think today as well, we've seen in the news, i'm sure on this top of the united states wanting to contest change in for africa. but i think one of the things to point out to you touched on here is that china is always seen itself as part of the developing world. and i think
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rightly so, today we're trying to, we'll never forget that it is a number of the group of developing nations. and if we go back to a don't shop about cross to the river by dealing with sellers, i think what china has very clearly a month seated in the last few years, is that it has found the way across the river. and now is willing to show on the path, but without imposing any type of ideology or any kind of political or economic mechanisms around with that. and letting africa other parts of the world develop on their own terms. again, and he couldn't bring you in because of the china may see itself in whatever terms it wants to, but china is viewed by some i. e, the us in turns its influence across africa is bit of a bogeyman. i mean, they need to new enemy, you might say, sometimes it's how many can make enemy, and that is china. yes, i think there's something in that. i mean, i think,
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i think it's at the beginning of china's new economic engagement with africa maybe 20 or 30 years ago. some of that rhetoric about, you know, china being a fair apartment, not having a kind of an agenda. the china had its own experience, a rapid growth and taking people out of poverty industrialization that might have had some current. i don't think it really does any more to think anybody in africa are really things that china is just another potential source of financing and other potential and competitive projects. and i think i was speaking early this week with the vision in african countries that back to my be better for people who are less about what china thought of africa and more water african needed from its partners. and i think this, the competition, if you like, between rival powers doesn't do
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a great deal for the people who ultimately mean to benefit in terms of actually providing project on their merits. projects that are commercially viable and have less kind of of this rhetorical baggage that makes more sense perhaps in washington or even beijing, perhaps in burkina faso or was ambia. we'll talk about a specific economy economic in a moment, but has, and can just come back to, you know, africa itself and it's a subsequent nation's within the continent of act to deal with military cruise, cross border confrontation, climate change in family and ethnic rivalries. each country has its own beset problems. how has china, in your opinion, been able to maintain a good relationship with all of those different sorts of regimes and governments when they've had this whole range of problems across the continent? i think china has learned from some of the mistakes that were done by previous powers, especially europe under the united states in parts because he does not choose
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government for africans. and that is that attractive. and leadership which me often sometimes is not comfortable. and sometimes they are terry. secondly, african countries up on the top of j and even growth delectable, in part because the country that has previously been classified at the thought was been though that's the political. but increasingly, of course, it's moving into the higher stages of being an economist. but sadly, i think because china looks at africa the partner and does not speak to involving the colonel affairs living in countries. it has allowed but friends and enemies within the continent to be able to work with china irrespective. but we government of the days. oh and they think because of the kind of relation that to build a why and it was literally poor. today, the perception of people talk machine that he's sticking to build even at the cost
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of increase in most countries. and as in china has been able to be successful in areas where for instance, the west high speed. and also because he does not have the baggage, and it's not viewed as negatively some of the width and metropolis you've been though as i did mention, they've been increasing. i think that a number of countries that thinking by the entertain the state that is going to prevent, sustain a point. there is this anthony goal there is a real debate going on, isn't that at the moment about africa's results says what china wants some, what it needs for in terms of manufacturing and product base. i mean, when we look at some of the statistics, 6 countries make up 68 percent of total exports. goler counting for 3rd, gohler libya. import oh, all from ga ball. gabon, also impulse, oil and manganese republic of congo. a series of reports. we've had an algae there, a news on the democratic republic of congo extracts cobalt and copper. i mean,
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there's a lot of natural resources that china requires a new and, and the balance of payments is lopsided as well. you know, what africa is able to buy of china is, is far less than what china you might say takes from africa. you make a very good point. i mean, after is not the country. obviously there's a huge distinction between the, my favorite trading partners and some of those countries where maybe china has much less of a relationship and a half acre, particularly important. i think we've seen some growth in, in, in west africa. in reason is china's try to track nigeria with different degrees of success. but i think that on top of the products that the role interiors typically that china seeks to secure from africa, the energy security, minerals security, it needs for growth in that sense. it is fairly familiar to the kind of patterns of
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economic engagement than other industrialized countries sequence africa. one of the differences backs is china as a major manufacture o g and cheaper products is that actually there's quite a lot in all traders. that's not always catch it in the official data between china and africa. quite a lot of that skipped, obviously because of the pandemic and the lack of travel over the last 18 months or so. but until i knew they were regular flights from direct and china parts of africa where the traders even were going picking up pretty good. see, and a seller's market. so i think that the picture isn't always captured by the big data if you like. and i think that has been quite a deep relationship from the top as well as the bottom with africa. even we're trying to strategic interest to focus more on a particular and small set countries. and the more teaching paying it out, the fact that they would be less money being invested in africa as
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a continent that can be interpreted in many ways. one of the ways that it has been interpreted is that china is listening to what african needs and adapting its finances accordingly. others are suggesting that china is walking away from africa . what's your interpretation of it? why i think the reality is much more complex and nuanced portrayed in such black and white binary terms. and i want to back up a little bit with the earlier speaker said about trainer learning some lessons from the european and perhaps the americans in dealing with africa. i would say it's much more profound than that. and the china brings a true sense of empathy in working with the continent because china has not that long ago struggled with exactly the same issues, high mortality rates, malnutrition, etc, etc. so i think that it's coming from a very,
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very different place and the philosophy, the got principles are non interference and respect for each country and system and choices. so i think that allows it to deal much more effectively with the country of africa. now that leads us to the current question, what you just asked, what is trying to do now or going forward? i think it's important to recognize that china does not look at africa as a patron client relationship. but again, if we think about it as mutual respect, when, when there will always be adjustments, we look at trade with africa. it's been about $200000000000.00 a year over the last 5 years or so. but it goes up and down based on examining this factors as well as domestic market considerations. so i think that the longer term direction is much,
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much greater interaction and integration with africa. but we have to see how that unfolds in terms of investments, trade details, all kinds of other things, technical assistance i've been trying to provide about 45 set. it's for an aide to africa. and you, let me just bring in this country, you would not in your head to in i think in agreement with some of the points are being made. but can i also add to what you might want to say. now in that as teaching ping has said that he wants to open green lanes for african agricultural exports. he wants to speed up inspection and quarantine procedures to increase a scope of products with 0 type of treatment to help achieve a goal. one of seems of equality of trade equality is that how you see it been hard to respond to increasing sentimental the continent, the payment, the handling of china. therefore, china trying to look ways and we pick them up because it is important though,
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that they still increase the appeal of china. while the comically speaking, sometimes i often to remit and economies eat on image. ah, but by following it on path, it does not speak to me africa, nissan, anemic. in terms of balance. and i think those 2 things, one is to constants. however, our look at everything that means that by the leader of china as more public diplomacy, but it meant to be those of the continent. and generally, the local population that has been complaining about increased chinese influence in ways that sometimes these advantages efficient local antennae, golden are becoming. but for this question by 31 to andy mach bouncing spring in, earlier in the week we showed on al jazeera report, why chinese mind officials had sanctioned the beating of
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a local man in the democratic republic of congo for stealing cobalt rock. this was videoed, as we showed widely, we reported on it when anti mocked, says, you know, china's initial false, always the empathy with africa being equal with africa, understanding the needs of africa. when you see video like this, it undermines that argument doesn't. it's about what china really wants, and this is the, you might say the tag, the western media, western governments grab, hold up and say, you see, this is what china is really about. well, it does, and i think that there may be a difference between policy from headquarters and what actually happens on the ground. and certainly, i think that's not the only instance. everybody has a camera down there been a couple of instances from, you know, from west africa as well as similar things where relations at the co pays was literally due to theory. quite sharp. and i think that that's probably true with lots of foreign companies, but the idea that china is somehow very distinct and much better in that regard is
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belie reality or events. a lot of place on the ground is where it's been captured in the way that you describe. and it's also true that in certain, in some of those countries where china has had its most active engagement, it's also become a domestic political issue in zambia, certain populous mileage. the political parties make in making an issue out of chinese investments and other elements of chinese policy because although china was never claim your power to see in africa has been quite a lot of immigration from china as part of it. griffith over it ties with africa, and i think, you know, with a 1000000 people who move to africa with the last 20 years from china, and that's concentrated in a few places and sometimes not always with the positive results. these are difficult changes to make the changes that happen easier overnight. i think like coming for a brief comment for you on that as well. no,
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i would absolutely agree. i think it's intellectually just honest to attribute the actions for the misdeeds of an individual to a government policy. i mean, we all know that those of us that i'm sure every, all of us have interacted with large organizations, whether governmental or for profit. and one of the big challenges, especially for chinese enterprises working in a place far from home with a different language, different culture, different customs that these are very, very difficult circumstances. i think it would be surprised. some sort of mistakes for uses did not happen. we also need to recognize mining is a difficult business as rotten so these are unfortunate and i think that they should happen in an ideal world. but certainly as far as i know, there is no policy on the chinese side to control these types of actions. how
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sudden can, can n g. i just come back to you now call. shooting ping has promised a 1000000000 doses of the coven 19 chinese made vaccine to the continent. obviously a welcome donation. but it comes in the context of the world health organization who promised them to kovacs the africa would be looked after western countries did nothing did very little. we've been reporting for 18 months. they've done something but not enough, not enough of mutations to appear. china, we're again helping out as much as it possibly can. where do you stand on this? do you see this is some sort of medical, bribery in any shape awful. now i will say the extension of your politics going on, especially between the roots, are seen all rational lions different atlantic alliance. and i think why and they want the little bit, but especially from the united states to pain pain. i love monega team. it has worked its way into lots of hats and minds of developing walk. and so what
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did the nation means? 80 people into the, to the opposite of china. we have been doing more excellently. these i some of the propaganda that should be shared. of course we got some of the my rights violation and i think the very long way because the west has largely not enough. and especially europe, united states has been trying out, but cause i think it's got them with this on issues and the other things a lot of but seen a national engine that has limited and the ability of the west to actually get africa in a way that is going to be appreciated, they're not coming very close to the end of the program and the more kinds of combat to soft power. how important design in terms of chinese policy. is it a word that's use? is it a phrase that use? and do you see the vaccine donation in that same sort of area? absolutely. so i think soft power sometimes referred to in the chinese context of
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discourse power. and in a world where we face global challenges and global responses are required. the ability to be heard taken seriously have one's views and opinions scene of legitimate is vital. and i think one of the big issues we're seeing here is of places with market driven economies like the us. they are not able to overcome structural limitations of we're profit companies wanting to protect their bottom line, whereas china, us is able to act in the interest of this country and the world. and i think this is an important factor in its increasing discourse power. well, i'm sure will be coming back to the subject, not too distant future. sadly, the gentleman we have to leave at hudson can n g. anthony goldman and andy mark and i, roby london and basing gentlemen, thank you for joining me here. and thank you for watching as well. you can see the program again, any time by visiting our website out there at dot com for further discussion
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gateway facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the compensation on twitter handle . there is at a j inside story. for me, the whole rahman, the insights always seems like your time and your company. ah, ah, a new baby. i did it, not that bad people in power investigate, exposes, and questions they use and abuse of power around the globe on out today with
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a guest with the city of gobble his experience so much upheaval for decades. and this is another change to get used to, and one that's far from easy situation. for now, it's not clear that all the people are just lost and confused. there are deep rooted fears about the erosion of basic rights in particular for women and girls.
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despite assurances from the taliban and about to return to cruel punishment for certain crimes, everybody will be safe. nobody's kid will be kidnapped again from rats. now together, they're feeling their way forward into their new reality. ah, hello. this is al jazeera ah hello, i'm robert hudson. this is the news are live from doha. coming up in the next 60 minutes. uganda's army launches air and artillery strikes in democratic republic of congo against an armed group accused of suicide bombings. the united states warns russia against aggression named eastern ukraine. russia says any nato forces moving into the region would cross a red line. police and sudan use tear gas again.


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