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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  January 23, 2022 3:30am-4:01am AST

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happy little by advocate. a train to get to a home. we need to ride on our in breath. my for in brett and now grass, enough room. oh, cool monks. i over the world have gather to be much one of their greatest leaders. a man devoted to listening, breathing, and letting go. oh, the hello again. the headlines on al jazeera, the search for survivors is continuing india man, after a detention facility was hit by a cell. the lead coalition air strike on friday. more than 80 people were killed. saudi arabia says the building was not on our list of protective sites. un
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secretary general has condemned the strikes and called for a transparent investigation. but on the ground emmons, warring sides are blaming each other for the escalating conflict. national and judy and then we are looking at a very big crime and there's a green light from the americans to kill civilians. you know, that's what we see by the targeting of the attention center inside the province and the continuous killing of civilians. war criminals escape prosecution, and consider this a war crime against humanity within the world should take responsibility at this critical moment in human history. we are witnessing many victims. well, the, you can government is accusing russia, planning to install a pro kremlin leader in ukraine. it says a number of former ukrainian politicians are in contact with russian intelligence officers involved in the planning of an invasion. rushes for a ministry called the u. k. statement, just information describing it as an anglo saxon johnson. the u. s. has sent 90 tons of military aid including ammunition to ukraine. the $200000000.00 security
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support package arrives in russia continues to deny that its planning and military offensive. a prominent black 2nd journalist who was found shot dead outside his home in the city of tijuana, has been laid to rest. margarita martinez has been working as a photo journalist for more than a decade, covering gang related violence and had received several death threats. japan's recording more the $50000.00 daily corona virus cases for the 1st time. the government has ordered all bars and restaurants to close early, including the capital tokyo cases there have more than doubled in a week. a top, if you appear military official, says government troops are making plans to enter to rise regional capital. michaela for an operation to oust rebel forces to top us diplomats flew to add up about this week to push for a cease fire. more news at the top of the hour on al jazeera, but up next it's inside story about ah,
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$1010.00 says, oh, the ukraine, the defused, the u. s. and was a whole more taught. but there's no break through. washington was of the consequences of an invasion. moscow. 6 assurances on security. is there a middle ground to be reached? this is inside story. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i am hush him about the us and russia have held what they say off. frank talks as they try to resolve their standoff on ukraine.
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foreign minister, sir gayla rob, repeated denials at huge rush and force along the border, is preparing to invade your secretary of state. antony lincoln said the us and its allies would response severely if it did the meetings fail to find agreement other than both sides with continuous steps to defuse the crisis. natasha butler has this report from geneva at a hotel in geneva, the u. s. secretary of state and russian foreign minister arrived for crucial talks into diffusing tensions over ukraine. antony blinkin, and sir gala for offset the tone early. both said a breakthrough was unlikely numbers back regarding your work. i do well, i would go to new york brewer because we are not expecting
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a breakthrough at this meeting either. we are expecting answers to all proposals after the meeting left for offset. moscow wanted a written response from the us to its demands, including a guarantee that nato will not grant membership to ukraine. something blinkin has repeatedly called a nonstarter, but he said the u. s. would respond to russia if moscow addressed it's concerns and respected ukrainian sovereignty. we've been clear if any russian military forces move across ukraine's order, that's renewed invasion. it will be met with swift, severe, and a united response from united states and are partisan allies. u. s. intelligence says russia has already amassed at least a 100000 troops on its western border and is moving weapons into allied belarus, north of ukraine. the u. s. and russian positions are clearly far apart to blink and allow for making very little real progress. but the 2 men did agree to continue
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to pursue diplomacy as a way of the escalating, a crisis which could lead to war. it was on the shores of lake geneva, the talks between the u. s. and russia led to the end of the cold war, decades on how old rivalries have resurfaced. both sides accuse each other. regression and relations are dangerously deteriorated. the outlook for the coming weeks is to natasha butler. just sarah geneva, the build up of russian troops on the border, has raised fears of conflict for many ukrainians, and the 1st shipment of additional u. s. military aid, $200000000.00 worth of equipment has arrived in the capital cave. but hundreds of people have rallied in the city calling for the escalation. ah, for more on this,
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i am joined by our guest in washington, dc. curt walker distinguish fellow of the center for european policy analysis. he's also former us representative for ukraine negotiations and us and bassa to nato in cave peter velma, of executive director of erasure, democracy initiative. and in moscow we have la dimmer sat nick of political commentator and specialist on russian foreign affairs. welcome to the program curved. no one was expecting the blink oliver of meeting to produce a breakthrough. but however, is it likely to diffuse the attention? no, i don't think sense. i think russia has been very clear all along and has set out these demands of ukraine not having its own sovereignty. not being able to choose whether to join nato or not. nato being required to pull back military forces from allies and all in the baltic states, demands the russia,
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knew would be an acceptable and yet it contin continues to push those and insist that the u. s. m a to agree to those. it's not going to happen. so as a result, i think we are just biting time. well, russia, a mass is more military forces in and around ukraine. i think she's really not looking at the diplomacy seriously. peter is in the same sentiment among ukrainians that this is just a matter of time before an evasion by invasion by the russians. well, sort of like the proverbial, you know, rifle that's hanging at the beginning of anton checkups play. i said to eventually fire by the end of the play, you know, it's just a matter of time and a matter of the set of scale attack that will be, will be coming from food. that's what most degrading is believe i would say that overall there's much, there's less of a, there's less shenaria that there will be
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a full blooded attack. and an invasion of ukraine with a potential siege capital cd key. and that's probably unlikely, but there's a whole host of options and scenarios that button is considering. because simply because i did not believe in a do not by his that his concerns that need that isn't circling, russia is genuine. i think what is really genuine is like a lack of desire to see a prosperous and democratic ukraine. so i think anything is possible, anything is on the table from a limited attack on in the east of ukraine, a potential land ordered to the crimea, and maybe instigating a coup overthrowing the government in kia the dinner. the russian foreign minister has been denying reports about military build up all the her on the border with ukraine. however, when you look at the chose being a mask,
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then we look at the tactical groups sent to bill arrows. this is an indication that the russians could potentially be planning a to front attack. or let me disagree with my esteemed or above colic, sir, from our united states. and then the ukraine is, i suppose our rush is not going to invade or just to incur make in the end incursions to the credit territory. actually. ah no. what about those negotiations which were held between the russian foreign minister, sergei love roth, and our secretary of state lincoln. that was a ride to diffuse a situation. but unfortunately these negotiation sir, ah, didn't give any results. i. i think that the eventually, eventually, are these sir arm solution to this sir? tangents will be, are found, and i think that there will be other morales of consultations and negotiations,
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at least one between a russia and the united states consulting the ukrainian issue. and i'm a just to regards former, numerous, russia has all arrived just her to, to maneuver or whatever the la ball the troops are. are i, let me, let me, let me let, let me point that this is going to be and this is actually taking place on the russian territory. but that's not a sign that russia is going to invade the. let me disagree again with my ukranian colleague that the russia is preparing to incur sir air to, to, to invade are in the east, off for our, the ukraine logic. how to make an over a coup ok cut of the santo, the negotiations between the, the chalks, between the americans on the russians. a list of demands presented by the russians . the key element here, the russians won't, of britain can a written document from the american saying that
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a ne 2 is going to be committed to not admit ukraine as a member any time in the future. do you see the americans winning for a compromise when it comes to this particular point? no, i don't know. ukraine is a sovereign country. it's an independent country. it has a long and historical and political and social and cultural identity that make it a state in europe. it is ukraine's right to decide whether he chooses to join a security alliance for collector defense or not. and i don't think it is for the united states or anyone else to say that no that's, that's never going to happen. native defensive alliance. it has reduce its military capabilities dramatically over the years since the end of the cold war has never attacked or threatened russia. ukraine does not threaten russia. and so the idea that russia,
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which has attacked crane and has attacked other countries in the neighborhood and has taken your territory, can be a threat, is real, which is why it's important for a country like ukraine to seek to join us. so no, i don't see that being taken off the table as a possibility won't happen soon, but i don't think anyone's going to write off that possibility. pizza, when you look at the statements made by ne to european allies over the last few years over the issue of ukraine. do you feel like you're on a confident position where if needs be the americans along with they to and europeans would be that to protect the ukrainians? very good question. let me just pick up briefly, comment on what investable percent and in country what our russians finally said. you know why the russia is or is not planning to attack. don't boss let, let's be clear. let's be clear that it already has. it has a next crimea country to all the international agreements, and it instigated
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a war in the east of ukraine. it's not a civil war country to what russia says now regarding your question about natal, you know, it would not be so hopeful, unfortunately, and i would say that you created that also not very short, especially after what we heard from president by the when he decided to started up a dose of bracing honesty about natal potential response to a variety of different scenarios. something that is honest, but should have been confined to private conversations among allies, you know, where with the audience of millions of people listening and especially one particular important individual writing and putting this was not very helpful. and it does seem that there is no clarity as far as the responses to various different scenarios. i have concerns about the response of the german side that has ruled out a new sort of military assistance, the upgrade and has also has not been willing to discuss the future of the north
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stream to project, which is a guest back with pipeline from russia and is a very, very important, important component. when you cannot make response. should russia attack ukraine? ladiva, what do you think is bush's biggest concern is cit, nato's expansion? or is it just the fear of seeing a neighbor which is more vibrant, setting up a strong democracy that could further spread eastwards. ah, well ah, thank you for the question. actually. first of all, i would like just to show brief the command on what the r y aah ukrainian kali ker panel is set. i was surprised at saying by him that russia is made an aggression to a crimea, that that is not true actually, because there was a dialogue, both in crimea and the crimea, and sexually or near voice the gave their voice the to the original location with
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rush well, that was not the gears of just for the record that the russian narrative internationally were talking about annexation of the crimea. and also actually that one and encouraged and not in the delay eastern territories. ah, that's was not annexation. and that was not the end in gush. it's the casa, well, actually, i, i, i will get straight to the point, i would say that russia is not fearing the grade that, sir, you remember there? there was an article by present latino bruton, where he sat and wrote that russia and ukraine. this is just a common, common, common people that this is so there was a ukraine, or are there russia actual somewhere out there back in there in the past. but, ah, i regarding a question. i think that the most the concern of russia, this is in the lodgement buffer nature and the pitching the nature ah, miss. isles medium range missiles on ukrainian territory. that's why russia would
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like to have written guarantees because the written get, i'm just, this is a legal document. ah, peter, you wanted to say something the, i just want to jump in or, or, you know, it is an are running situation with my report. claims that nato constitutes an existential threat to russia, but it's precisely his actions in the last 8 years or even longer that created this insecurity in the region that has prompted not only ukrainians to aspire with, greater and greater force, greater greater numbers to become a member of nato, but the longstanding neutral european powers such as sweden and finland are all of a sudden talking about that a casual accession needle. kurt, it was 2nd major demand by the russians is withdrawn, data truce back to 1997. this is before several countries in eastern europe, word method is this something that potentially could be debated between the u. s and its own allies within the nato before coming back to the russians with an
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answer? no, that is not something that united states or major would do either. and we have to 1st remember the history that poland arctic states, stoney le, unless linear or gary remaining the reader occupied by the soviet union, or had governments imposed on them by the union and part of the worst packers exception for many. and they are now free and independent countries. again, they were historically free and independent. they are again now, and they will refuse to be subjugated to russia in any way in the future. it's not for russia to tell them whether and how to defend themselves, and nato likewise will not allow an outside power such as russia to dictate the way that it goes about its preparation for defense. in the case, a country, any member of data will be attacked, so that is not on the table. one thing our colleagues that i think could be addressed is missiles. he said that is a concern of russia,
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that nato could possibly put missiles into your brain. this is something where we had previously existing agreement, the agreement, and also concerns about short range was that russia in its territory, been very close to western territory. and here i think there is scope for negotiation and agreement on not deploying those sorts of weapons or locations where it's acceptable to those to be deployed. reciprocal music pages, pita, we've seen some equipment delivered to the cranium over the last few months, particularly from britain, the next generation light weapons, the allows and also the javelin from the americans. but apart from that, the germans of you said better, which isn't about the need to send what java made weapons into ukraine's many countries are saying we have to be really cautious when it comes to sending any
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strong signal to the way that could further observe the rushes, do you feel like that ultimately you might end up being the ones to pay a price if the science in the region decide to move forward. well, you know, it is, i wish i could tell you with certainty what that would lead to, you know, there 2 scenarios, you know, russia, credit, put his propaganda machinery can take the armament or a wrong situation to claim that, you know, there is a, you know, there is a, an encirclement happening and ukraine is being used as a public, as a, as a sort of a territory for which to strike against russia. or as many, including american military analysts and supporters of ukraine claimed vladimir putin understands only force and the sooner it's demonstrated the better. therefore, americans already agreed to supply you greenwood stinger missiles, you know, including by giving the baltic states or the green light to do that. and mind you,
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it was during the dentist and war by the soviets, that the stinger missiles allowed them would j. d, eventually knock out the solid power and force it to withdraw. but once again, i wish i had a clear answer. ok, this is a very complex in areas and it could go what ways. ok, ladiva you said that's one of russia's main concerns, is using ukraine and areas in the and eastern countries on the border to launch attacks against russia. but don't you see the potential for resuming talk on the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty that the u. s. abandoned in 2019 as something that could send reassurances to the russians? yes, correct. i see the potential actually are resuming the talks on the air or this a treaty. and i think that one, sir, the credit crisis will be diffuse to diffuse. there are to some, some level those talk for are on the are resuming the agreement.
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aah! which was abandon, you're right, a sometime ago they will start to take place. so i think that the, this is the point where, yeah, the united states and the a russian federation can make a good agreement. what, what, what, what i'm saying a good agreement. i mean that both sides will prolong the street. you will find probably the confederation of this street here the and then from that boy into the diffusion, i'm an optimist. i'm an optimist actually. ok from that boy into the relationship between a bow for power us will be getting better. kurt, that is this concerned about the short range massage being deployed in those areas near russia and used by the americans and they to in the near future to destabilize russia. but don't you see at the same time that vladimir putin is trying to bring
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to the full front once again, the issue of the tactical nuclear weapons that the americans have deployed in places like belgium, italy, germany, and turkey during the cold war. and his using this opportunity to say, you know, what, part of the deal would be for the americans to take them out of those areas. he's certainly bring that up, but he's conveniently not bringing up the fact that russia has fastly more hundreds and hundreds and hundreds more short range nuclear warheads in that same area of europe, rushes, western frontiers facing europe. so this deterrents has been in place for 70 years, almost where the u. s. nuclear guarantee is linked to you are so that they're equal security for all of us. i think that the u. s. a native would be willing to discuss. i n f and s and s limitations, but on
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a reciprocal mutual basis and of course requires strict verification. it was russia and finally, after you previously a future agreement, we're good ish, the vicious peter when the, when the, when the russians say that there is a why the and asked a crimea and provided support for the secessionist is the need for the russians to protect the russian speaking communities there, do you have any concerns that the russian in a way. busy or another are trying to reshape the whole narrative surrounding the independence of the ukraine back in the ninety's and going back to the notion, you know, what happened in 1991. it was a mistake. therefore, we need to provide those chapters which could entail the acquaintance coming under the fall of the russians once again. while i, you know, let's not go too far. i am a russian, originally a russian speaking ukrainian from beneatha. this is why i was born. this is why i grew up country, do rush us propaganda claims. the russian language and russian speakers were never
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under any physical harm threat then the russian language wasn't right. this is completely concocted as a rationale for the annexation of premier and the subsequent instigation of the war . in the don't boss. what we're seeing is happening in ukraine. what we're seeing, what's happening with belive us, which has essentially become a protectorate of russia, has essentially cease to exist as a defect to independent states. what we're seeing in context on where russia has invoked its collective security treaty to restore order. it really, it really matches what we heard. let me say over the, over the years that he considers the break up of the soviet union as a great, the greatest one of the greatest geopolitical tragedies of the 20th century. he misses the soviet union, he misses russia's ability to project power to what they call the near abroad.
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obviously, that will be assembling, so that he will try to re unite as under russia's umbrella validate briefly. if you don't mind each time, there is a crisis, there's all this debate in russia. exactly, reverberating. what happened back in the ninety's? what kind of russia do we want? what kind of boundaries are we talking about? what kind of relationship do we have with our neighboring countries? but don't you think that this time, the excuse is all the, the issue that ladiva putting is using when it comes to ukraine, could back fi compared to what happened in 2014? no, i don't think so. actually again, i'm telling you not to miss myself that the way my sexual remember the past, the recent past and what was sexually talk 2 years ago non that is just to the proper us to do not make the same mistakes in the future. so i think it will be a great mistake. all auditions are probably united states from ukraine,
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if for there will be a mounting threat and gene danger. ok. and then from, from, from the west on, from no nature towards russia. because russia along our lessons very well. so i think that finally, i would like to say that i'm sure that there will be no, any war between thank you, nature or russia. i really appreciate that. unfortunately, we, we are running out of time. wish we had more time to continue the debate about what happens next in ukraine. kurt walker peters. i may have let emer stutnik of i really appreciate your insight looking forward to talking to you in the near future and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page, thus facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversational twitter. our hunter is at ha,
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