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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  June 14, 2022 8:30pm-9:01pm AST

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did in this latest trial, and again, they were all victimized in the same way without any evidence based on very vague charges of incitement to treason. the leader of i co doors, main indigenous peoples movement has been arrested on the 1st day of a nationwide strike. police say, leon, i this is a was detained on suspicion of offences which i've not been specified is a, has led to protest, demanding the government does more about high fuel prices. roads have been blocked in several provinces. a google engineer has been placed on leave after claiming a computer system he was into interacting with is self aware. blake lemoine works on google's artificial intelligence team. he released transcripts between himself and the company's chat box development system. my video is captured the moment the house fell into the yellow stone river in the us state of montana. the area has
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suffered unprecedented flooding and rock slides which forced many people out of their homes. yellowstone national park as close to the public as an investigation is carried out. that is in say, ah, let us take you through some of the headlines here now the 0. now, the 1st plane carrying asylum seekers from the u. k to rwanda will take off in the coming out that's after a legal appeal by rights groups failed to stop the deportations, but only 7 migrants will be on the $600000.00 flight. the dame barbara has more from london. well, as far as we know, the number of detainees who are in detention centers here in the u. k. ready to be sent to rolanda and who have not been taken off the list because of legal
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challenges on an individual basis that have been ongoing. the number we believe is still at 7, it's been going down gradually, steadily since before the weekend because of individual applicants making by case protests isn't. you does have denounced the demolition of homes owned by muslims. government officials say the buildings have been constructed illegally. the rides group say it's part of an attempt to intimidate an axis and protest. joe biden will make his 1st trip as the u. s. president to the middle east next month. he's expected to meet saudi arabia's crown prince mohammed vincent. man. the trip comes just a year after the biden administration concluded the principle of the murder of journalist jemma. how sharp g russia has destroyed the last bridge, houses, viagra done yet? scarcity that is that the heart of the battle for your crimes don't bass region. it was one of 3 bridges leading out of the city,
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meaning many civilians and our tracks rush and back separatists have warned ukrainian soldiers, they can surrender or die. the leader of ecuador main, indigenous peoples movement has been arrested on the 1st day of a nationwide strike. police say, lee and i, this is, i was detained on suspicion of offences that were not specified. it, since i have story. now stay with us here. now just 0, i care about how the u. s. engages with the rest of the world. i cover foreign policy, national curity. this is very much a political impact. here's the conflict. how do we illustrate it? are we telling a good story? will people get what we're trying to do here? they're living outside and make ship tense. this is not the way any family want to raise their children. we're really interested in taking you into a place that you might not visit otherwise. and to actually feel as if you were there,
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the u. k is set to the port asylum seekers to lawanda after legal challenges failed . it's a move described by many as inhumane. will it stop refugees reaching britain? this is inside so ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much am john come here and we'll send you to a wanda. that's the message coming out of the united kingdom for asylum seekers and migrants trying to reach it illegally. most of the people who were supposed to be deported were able to avoid the 1st flight, took a golly through individual legal challenges, a request to halt the flight on ground. the deportations would undermine the dignity of people escaping warren oppression was rejected by the case court of appeal. laura burton manly reports
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o a chorus of anger from protesters outside london's court of appeal. as the judge gave the green lights for the 1st flight of refugees of migrants, true one dumb writes. good say it includes people who had escaped war in afghanistan and syria and being flown more than 6000 kilometers away. will traumatized them further. they suffered incredibly, i've seen how many members killed me, they've had torture themselves, and they are tired. but at the end of that heather, that finding detention incredibly show him a tie thing, and those are the fair, the deportation how fair castillo aide is absolutely terrifying for them. you k prime minister boys, johnson says the deportation strategy will undermine people's smuggling networks and deter refugees from making dangerous journeys to britain to the united nations . refugee agency hits back thing. rwanda's human rights record is under scrutiny,
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and the u. k is shirking responsibility. this is all wrong, this is all wrong. this deal, you know, it is the foundation of the right to asylum that people that are on it countries territory, especially a country that is a signatory to the convention and has the institutions to deal with that. in april home secretary, pretty patel visited by golly, to finalize the project and potentially send tens of thousands of people them. the deal includes a payment of about $150000000.00 to the refund and government. so far this year, 10000 migrants refugees made the crossing from mainland to europe to the u. k. and 28000 last year in november, 27th people drowned when their ding you deflated and many more of to be rescued
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from the channels. busy shipping lanes. some of those who risk their lives will leave on the 1st flight on tuesday. but there may not be many on it. his theories of individual legal challenges mean only a few of the 130 people notified will leave. and the government continues to face pressure from activists rights groups. and unions who insist the move is unlawful. oh laura, that unmanly on to theorem? ah ah, let's go and bring in our guests in london, clara mosley is founder of care for kelly, an organization campaigning against the deportation. in kigali, joseph riah rossa is executive secretary of never again a social justice and peace building organization in rwanda and in brussels. captain wool or the secretary general of the european council on refugees and exiles,
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a warm welcome to you all. and thanks for joining us. but 1st we're going to talk to shabby a man to a uni. she are spokesperson, she joins us from geneva. shabby a thanks so much for joining us today. i want to ask you 1st about some of the remarks that were made by flip grandy, the un high commissioner for refugees. he said that the precedent that this creates, is catastrophic. so let me ask you, what kind of precedent does this plan between the u. k and rwanda set? well, indeed, this very worrying precedent. the waves pronounced also repeatedly on this issue. these types of arrangements, they undermine the whole principle of refugee protection of responsibility sharing . we're living in a well today where it's actually the countries that some of the most under resource, they are in fact already the ones that are taking on the disproportionate learn. very appreciate responsibilities that they're in fact before that the current
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situation with the ukraine war in the refugee displacement that we've seen from not checklist situation. countries in the global south, her stood about 85 percent of the world's refugees. now these countries are filling their obligations, protecting refugees. when you have countries that are more well resourced and that have the capacities to purchase asylum claim center receiver. if they are shaking their obligations, what kind of message does that send should be showing? or it's warring from a legal perspective, but also from an ethical and moral suspect. this well shall be. let me ask you about the fact that you know, the fact that there is so much concern about this plan. does this plan to send asylum seekers or a wanda to be processed? is that not contradict the case obligations as a signatory to the international refugee convention? and then furthermore, what are the concerns specifically about one does ability to host and process these asylum seekers? well indeed,
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we said that the syringe to transfer refugees in the countries in the absence of society and found us they really what they do with shifts or responsibilities for asylum. they evade international obligations and why our country should disperse. and the last of the refugee convention, or in our country sure. below and the responsibilities that need to be met. but refugees, a fan to be there, not commodity to base human beings. the human life. they shouldn't have to be transferred to other countries. empty people who have international their afforded international protection standards. hammond to be refugees, they need to be protected. some of them have fled very traumatic experiences and circumstances. no one. boland hurley chooses to become a refugee, sir. they should not be shipped off against their will and treated like they can be traded. i mean, human beings, we're talking about a shabby at you. and hcr also says this plan is an effort to export the countries
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legal obligations to provide asylum to those seeking a safe haven. tell us about some of the other concerns that you and your colleagues have about off shoring. well that's what, what, what these arrangements are. they're basically out. so think international legal responsibilities to other countries and, but it may go against the spirit and the letter of the law as we mentioned. so we need a more humane and compassionate approach in terms of dealing with this issue, we're talking about a very limited number of, of movements. and also these are their visit appropriate recalls as a way to deal with fishing movements. now, when you have a fair and efficient asylum process that can determine who is in need of, and national perceptions, or who was a refugee and who isn't, that's a very manageable way of addressing this issue. and it's all about preventing the
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resort of refugees as well too dangerous and risky chinese phase models have been talented as a deterrent. but this is not really what is going to be the result of these arrangements where undermining legal obligation and also replacing refugees at risk . and at the same time, you're going to people take a more dangerous and risky journey to safety. in the absence of those pathways to safety, alright, shall be a man to spokespersons for the you and refugee agency. thanks so much for joining us on inside story. claire, let me turn to you now. i just want to take a step back for a moment and talk about the human beings who are being impacted by all of this. you know, many of these refugees migrants asylum seekers. they were already severely traumatized . so as somebody who works directly with them, how scared are these refugees and migrants who are facing the possibility that they might now get center a wanda we've been talking to them for the last couple of weeks. and it
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would be impossible that he to interstate how scared and traumatized by they are by this as she say, these people are victims of the worst things happen around the world. 5 of them of victims of trafficking which will check they've all suffered horrible things. they say no, i'm these cold, they have been traumatized in south i conflicts and torture, and they have the most horrible physical i'm mentions, oz. one of them has been diagnosed with ph yesterday. and just being in detention as in highly traumatic for them. some of them being in detention reminds them of, of the times and they have been locked away until chit. they are terrified at being center one that they're terrified at the repercussions themselves on the terrified what's gonna happen to their families. and 2 of them are age, 2 of them have family members in the u. k that they now feel like they will be name
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and none of them from africa that say it for them, it represents the intention of the continent. they have no connection to. we had evidence in court that may certainty that people from that at least will gratify hearing adam claims and miranda. so for them, it's just incredibly traumatic and we're talking about people like i say, you already have extreme physical and mental scars from that previous experiences. so this plan is obsolete. a bristol, what we're going to put these people through. it can't be taken back and in court, they sat in the future. it's found that this plan is low for, well, we'll just bring them back. but we can't take a holler and reach out to see what we're doing to them as human beings. we can't just say, sorry for that, you know, it's impossible to hers, not home. catherine, there been many british officials who have stated on numerous occasions that off showing refugees does not in their opinion contravene for you in refugee convention
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. but, but there are many rights activists and advocates out there who say that is simply not the case from your vantage. point is this action by the u. k. a contravention of international law. we would say it certainly is. and in saying that we're in agreement with you and hcr, which is the authority on the interpretation of the refugee convention. and that is the basis of international refugee law. i would highlight 2 elements, 2 articles of the convention, article 33, which is the prohibition of reform on to send people back to a place where their lives are at risk. and it may be the case or that given that rwanda's asylum system is embryonic, as you and hcr has analyzed that people don't get protection and then are sent back to countries where they're at risk. there's also article $31.00 which prohibits states that a signatures to the convention from discriminating against people on the basis of
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the manner of their arrival. so this policy in general, in the u. k. many elements of the new boat as act. but also this particular deal appears to contravene that part of international refugee law, which says that people shouldn't be treated differently according to how they arrive. and it's not illegal to cross borders to seek protection. and we would underline the large majority of those arriving in the u. k. having crossed the channel all found to be in need of international protection. so it's a group of people, many of whom refugees in need, of international protection and who shouldn't be penalized for the way that they've been forced to arrive in the u. k. joseph, as katherine just mentioned, the you and hcr has said that rwanda does not have the capacity to process these asylum claims, and that there is a risk that some migrant could be returned to countries from which they fled.
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what's your response to that? yo us. thanks a lot. i think i it depends on ah, which goose creek terrier the you and hcr is the best on making that. so i noticed, but sir, what i can search for the last ah, 20 uh one has been listed the sooner if you do under ronda, came up plan now. i africans, social no social co r b. ah, ah, mistreated lorenzo trail to cross them know that material now. awesome. saw out. so i wonder are, has the capacity to process that a she did? i am catherine. let me get back to you about one of the points that joseph was making. he was saying that that were wanda, is able to do this, you know,
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many officials and want to have said that it is a safe country that they are welcoming to refugees and migrants from your point of view. you stated earlier that that essentially it's embryonic as far as their being able to process this many asylum seekers or do you think that they will be able to, to get to the point where they can process this and also why was were wanda selected? so i think the number of different factors to mention, 1st of all, we would defer to you and hcr in it's assessment of the asylum system in rwanda. in terms of the situation in rwanda more generally are we note that even the u. k. government itself has noted in some of its reports that there are questions about the respect to human rights in rwanda. so that is something that also should be taken into account. and the, the reason a country enters into this kind of deal is for the benefits that they receive. and
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there's been a lot of publicity about the amount of money that will be provided to rwanda. and it's also a country where the leader, who likes to act as a provocateur in many senses and to go against the grain. and so that may be one of the reasons why this country, in particular, has decided to enter into a deal when so many other countries refused to do so, because they don't want to take on the responsibilities of a country like the u. k which has its international obligations and both has the means and the obligations to be offering protection to the small number of displaced people the actually arrived there in the u. k. so i think that's part of it. these kind of agreements as well as the money they also give a certain political leverage because it creates dependency on the country that's hosting people. so we see that, for instance, in the arrangements between the
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e. u and turkey, which we also condemn that gave us political leverage to, in that case a political leader who is able to put pressure on europe and extract concessions because of hosting in that case for a great number of people. so those are the kind of factors that are involved, and i would underline that as well as the human rights considerations. one of the object since to the day, at least the cost, it looks massively expensive, which is what sales have been learnt from the use of this kind of model in australia. claire, let me ask you about what legal avenues are left right now when it comes to challenging this plan. as i understand it, there is going to be age additional review in the next month with regard to this new policy. um, if, if the opinion of the next additional review were to be that this policy is flawed, or if it is not illegal, would those who may have been transferred already to or want to be eligible to come
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back to the u. k. yes, that the important hearing is the one in july, which is when the court will look at whether the policy is impact lawful. and if the court decides that isn't and yes, we can bring them back. but the extreme damage that when it in doug is incredibly concerning and a lot of people say so us, they're such a run that they will kill themselves. and i really don't know why that would leave us, you know, and the damage that we just individuals by the quotation and to that amazed. that's not something that we can either take ac is that and it's very hard for us to understand. bio guzman is going down the street when there are other things that we could do that would a much more humane. and i would say much more active if we gave baez's to people in halley and other refugees, same as we did he grain ins. and that would put people smugglers out business,
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and that would stop people risk analysis in the channel. so i, we find it incredibly difficult to understand by the british government would go down a bit that is so incredibly bristol and dangerous, and cruel to refugees on this other options that are available. it would probably be more effective as one. no, he name joseph. um, i'll let you finish with the, the point that you were making earlier. but i also want to ask you about the fact, you know, we're wandering officials of said the country has a proud history of welcoming those in need. and that rwanda is already home to more than a 130000 refugees and migrants from other african nations and other countries as well. you know, with there are a lot of activists and, and refugee advocates. others say that the refugees of migrants who sought better lives in britain are expected to find fewer chances to pursue their dreams in rwanda. what would you say to that in the yeah, no, i think for the other as i was saying previous, is that i want to has the capacity of all the mission. they have
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a lot more than one to tell them to do. so the contrast taking care of the literacy do so i think ronda has the capacity of the country. so coming back to what you're saying, i think that is some i'll do some good a sort of but i think there's some bias from, from, from the north where people think that countries in the, in the global south, dont have maybe we, we, we, we are still the dock will they be the but it's not functioning systems, but i can't, i can't, i can't be a bottle so that i think rwanda is randa. how's it has created an opportunity given it's history. it has created opportunities to each and every person. it has to go over with back up on a grown so and, and on. and i think ah, what the other up to this form, the global north are saying, it's just a bertha. they have,
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they'd be on africa or all other countries in the, in the, in the global house. but i would say a, ronda has a. ready change to the one does put in place systems to be able to support the process and also make this clear. i think you can, the government has the right to get into in a partnership with a country which they think they can the, the common kind of fossit that they were government to process the asylum seekers saw bringing the r m he wants to under, it doesn't mean that the process has ended the process, the process will continue. so it's, it's a try that. so i think the timber should the enter go could create mountain local. this is catherine. how concerned are you about the possibility that
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a refugee who faces a real risk of persecution could be refused asylum in rwanda. and then what, what happened? so that according to the memorandum of understanding, that is the basis of this agreement. and we should know that this is also one of the problems here. it's not a, an international agreement. it's the in the form of a memorandum of understanding and informal flimsy kind of a quarter agreement between the u. k. a. rwanda, which was that makes it more difficult to challenge legally. and so in that memorandum of understanding there are points that mentioned that rwanda will be able to send people onwards. so and people who are, are not, and didn't, did not receive a positive decision after and assigning prices in rwanda may be sent back to their and countries or to other countries. so there is the risk of course of reform,
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all that they will be sent back to their countries where they face persecution. as i said earlier, the vast majority of those arriving currently in the u. k. across the channel. all people in need of international protection according to the u. k. codes. so there is a strong risk, but if somebody gets a negative decision in an asylum system, which is under construction, let's say that they sent and refilled. and the other question is this part of the agreement that potentially allows them to be sent somewhere else? so is there a risk that there then sent to another country that is cooperating with wonder and where they may also face other issues? but i think it's not, it's not a question of what, what, what tire assessment is of rwanda, as i said, we defer to you and hcr on that. i think it's also about the fact that the u. k. has international obligations and responsibilities,
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and it is undermining international refugee low but international law more generally by entering this kind of agreement. so it, it, courage is other countries in the rich world to undermine international law and to attempt to convent their own obligation. claire, we just have about a minute left. just briefly, boris johnson says that this is going to break the business model of criminal gangs . let me ask you 1st. do you think that's the case? and this is, is this something that's actually going to deter migration? because people are still getting on both people are still risking their lives. yeah, unfortunately, i think it's pretty clear that it's not i, she say people are still crossing. and the british government has tried a number of policies that are exchanged parents, and none of them have had any effect at all. so even though it is more reasonable than any other, it isn't a fax to policy. so why should i succeed when any of the files?
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and i think that, that why, why if the government were so sure that they want to be people smokeless, why would they try else? why would they try something new if that's ready? or other ways to do it would be more effective in more humane. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the discussion there. thanks so much to all of our guests. claire, mostly, joseph ry, rasa, and katherine willard. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, l 0 dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside storage. you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle this at adrian. so i story from him, how much am throwing in the whole team here and i forgot. ah,
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so lamar les come, it's great to see. welcome to the content economic forum powered by bloom bad. some people say that they say the globalization blaine on, but that perfect. so think of every globalization are accomplished. speakers from heads of state to business and policy leaders will discuss evolving technology, education, culture, sustainability, and the impact on the economy. it's the u. case. biggest hospital with eventual capacity for 4000 cove at 19 patient built inside a london conference center. it took just 9 days to construct with the help of army engineers dramatically expanding the critical care bed count and other similar sites saw on the way the actual london numbers could be much higher than advertised researches say that huge gaps in testing capacity that the government is now trying to close, extrapolate that across the country and the spread of corona virus appears far
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