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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  June 15, 2022 10:30am-11:01am AST

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conferences, so people get together and i've always loved festivals and all the ones i've been to over the years. and i'm glad that we have this one here. oh, but tribeca is also about alias movie stars like de niro himself and al pacino this year reuniting to celebrate the 1995 crime drama heats with live conversations. another big draw for try back a feature tennis, great. john mcenroe and civil rights act of his al sharpton. oh yes. each talking about their own films. and you're just as likely to see celebrities in the audience as on screen. whether it's historically met to new york city is an honor to be a part of that conversation. to try back a festival was founded after the attacks of september, 11th 2001 as a way to restore new york, the vibrant, the festival,
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like the city has proven its resilience. continuing to attract all kinds of artists established and aspiring, as well as fans, prison salumi al jazeera new york. ah . hello adrian. i think i'm here with you in doha, the headlines and al jazeera, the u. k says that it will fight any legal challenges against its policy to send asylum seekers to ruined up. it's 1st flight on tuesday, didn't get off the ground after a loss, but it intervention by the european court of human rights. early up, the british prime minister boris johnston said his government may need to change the law to ensure that deportations can continue. we're trying to make a distinction between a legal pathways to the u. k, which we support. we want people to be able to come here. if here there lies, we want to do it legally and safely. and that's why we have all the safe and legal
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roots that are open to, to people. what we want to do is to show the people traffickers, but that they're breaking the law. they're risking people's lives and it will work anyway. now, if will it be necessary to change some laws to help us as we go along, it may very well be china's economy is showing signs of partial recovery. according to the latest government data. industrial output in may increase nor point 7 percent, slightly more than expected, but retail sales remained weak. the government is persisting with its 0 coven 19 strategy, which is having an impact on businesses. the u. n. expert has accused me on mars army of deliberately targeting children since taking power lost here. the u and special repertoire. human rights says $14022.00 children were reportedly tortured by soldiers, police and pro army malicious surviving will include saudi arabia on the itinerary of his 1st middle east trip, as you, as president. but he has come under fire from summit, his own party,
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us intelligence agencies, concluded chrome prince, i haven't been so man ordered the murder of the journalist jamal has shown shape the kingdom denies this. ukraine says it's military is trying to get to the, the last remaining civilians out of savannah on. that's russia is getting closer to taking over the east and city as it tightens its grip on the don bass region. those headlines that he's continues here on out to sierra after today's inside story. coming up next. these men are survivors of coven, 1946 year old abdomen e or is the limousine driver? is the only one here who needed to go to hospital when he became ill in early march . i believe being bro. vodo the balance for the november. so deep is a 34 year old driver for atari family and he tested positive my body is very won't let me know bubble you out of the house. officials say the rate of new infections has slowed. the goal here is to conduct
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a broad survey to better understand transmission and asymptomatic cases, which in turn could help policy decisions in the future. so it would be easier for us to inform the decision making on what to do next. the goal now is to increase testing and contact tracing. the government provides free testing and medical treatment for those who need it while campaigns to raise awareness continue. the u. k. is set to the port asylum seekers to lawanda after legal challenges failed. it's a move described by many as inhumane. will it stop refugees reaching britain? this is inside story. with
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hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much of jewel come here and we'll send you to a wanda. that's the message coming out of the united kingdom for asylum seekers and migrants trying to reach it illegally. most of the people who were supposed to be deported were able to avoid the 1st flight, took a golly through individual legal challenges, a request to halt the flight on ground. the deportations would undermine the dignity of people escaping war and oppression. was rejected by the you case, court of appeal. laura burton, manley reports o, a chorus of anger from protesters outside london's court of appeal. as the judge gave the greenlight for the 1st flight of refugees of migrants, true wonder writes, good. say it includes people who had escaped war in afghanistan and syria and being flown more than 6000 kilometers away. will traumatize them further. they suffered incredibly, they've seen how many members killed, they've,
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they've had talked to themselves and they are tired. but at the end of that heather, they're finding detention incredibly traumatizing and thought of a fair, the deportation half way across the way. it is absolutely terrifying for them. you k prime minister boys, johnson says the deportation strategy will undermine people's smuggling networks and deter refugees from making dangerous journeys to britain. the united nation strategy agency hits back saying rwanda's human rights record is on the scrutiny. and the u. k is shirking responsibility. this is all wrong, this is all wrong. this deal, you know, it is the foundation of the right to asylum that people that are on it countries territory, especially a country that is a signatory to the convention and has the institutions to deal with that. in april home secretary, pretty patel visited by golly,
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to finalize the project and potentially send tens of thousands of people them. the deal includes a payment of about $150000000.00 to the rwandan government. so far this year, 10000 migrants refugees made the crossing from mainland to europe to the u. k. and 28000 last year in november, 27th people drowned when that ding deflated and many more that had to be rescued from the channels busy shipping lanes. some of those who risk their lives will leave on the 1st flight on tuesday. but there may not be many on it. a series of individual legal challenges mean only a few of the 130 people notified will leave. and the government continues to face pressure from activists rights groups and unions who insist the move is unlawful.
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oh, laura about molly on to 0. our i was go and bring in our guests in london, where mostly is founder of care for kelly, an organization campaigning against the deportation and k. golly, joseph ry are asa is executive secretary of never again a social justice and peace building organization and ro wonder and in brussels captain will are the secretary general of the european council on refugees and exxon's warm welcome to wall and thanks for joining us. but 1st, we're going to talk to shabby a man to you and hcr spokesperson. she joined us from geneva. shabby a thanks so much for joining us today. i want to ask you 1st about some of the remarks that were made by sleep grandy, the un high commissioner for refugees. he said that the precedent that this creates is catastrophic. so let me ask you, what kind of precedent does this plan between the u. k. and rwanda set
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well indeed, very worrying president, we've pronounced ourselves repeatedly on this issue. these types of arrangements, they undermine the whole principle of refugee protection of responsibility sharing . we're living in a world today where it's actually the countries, but some of the most under resource. they are in fact already the ones that are taking on the disproportionate learn of risk responsibilities. that they're in fact before the, the current situation with the ukraine war and the refugee displacement that we've seen from that particular situation. countries in the global south, her stood about 85 percent of the world's refugees. now these countries off filling their obligations, protecting refugees. when you have countries that are more well resourced and have the capacities to process asylum claims and to receiver, if they are shaking their obligations, what kind of message does that then? sure. if you are doing math in there, it's worrying from a legal perspective,
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but also from an ethical and moral perspective as well, shall be. let me ask you about the fact that, you know, the fact that there is so much concern about this plan. does this plan to send asylum seekers or a wanda to be processed? is that not contradict the case obligations as a signatory to the international refugee convention? and then furthermore, what are the concerns specifically about rewan does ability to host and process these asylum seekers. when did we said that these ranch, my think to transfer refugees in the countries in the absence of god and found us they really what they do with shifts or responsibilities for asylum. they evade international obligations and re our country to disperse. and the last of the refugee convention, or in our country sure. below and the responsibilities that need to be met, but refugees of phantom, but they're not commodity to base
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a human being the human life. they shouldn't have to be transferred to other countries. empty people who have international therefore did international protection standards. hammond to be refugees, they need to be protected. some of them have fled very traumatic experiences and circumstances. no one voluntarily truces to become a refugee, sir. they should not be shipped off against their will and treated like they, they can be traded. i mean, a human being, we're talking about a shabby at you. and hcr also says this plan is an effort to export the countries legal obligations to provide asylum to those seeking a safe haven. tell us about some of the other concerns that you and your colleagues have about off shoring. well that's what, what, what these arrangements are. they're basically out. so think international legal responsibilities to other countries may go against the spirit and the letter of the lord way if we mentioned. so we need
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a more humane and compassionate approach in terms of dealing with this issue, we're talking about a very limited number of, of movements. and also these are their visit appropriate recalls as a way to deal with for fishing months. now, when you have a fair and efficient asylum process that can determine who is in need of international protections, or who was a refugee and who isn't some very manageable way of addressing this issue. and it's all about preventing the result of refugees as well, too dangerous and risky chinese phase models have been captured as a deterrent. but this is not really what is going to be the result of bass arrangements where undermining legal obligation, but also placing refugees at risk. and at the same time, you're going to people take even more dangerous and risky journeys to safety. in the absence of those pathways to safety. alright, shall be amman, to spokespersons for the you in refugee agency. thanks so much for joining us on
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inside story. claire, let me turn to you now. i just want to take a step back for a moment and talk about the human beings who are being impacted by all of this. you know, many of these refugees migrants asylum seekers. they were already severely traumatized . so as somebody who works directly with them, how scared are these refugees and migrants who are facing the possibility that they might now get center a wanda we've been talking to them for the last couple of weeks and it would be impossible lady to interstate how sad and traumatized by they are by this, as she say, these people are victims of the worst things happen around the world. 5 of them of victims of trafficking, which will check, they've all suffered horrible things. they say no harmony's cold. they have been traumatized in south. i conflicts and torture and they have the most horrible
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physical i'm mentioned. oz, one of them has been diagnosed with ph yesterday. and just being in detention as in highly traumatic for them. some of them being in detention reminds them of, of the times and they have been locked away until chit. they are terrified at being center one that they're terrified at the repercussions themselves on the terrified what's gonna happen to their families. and 2 of them are age, 2 of them have family members in the u. k that they now feel like they will be name and none of them from africa that say it for them, it represents the intention of the continent. they have no connection to. we had evidence in court that may certainty that people from that at least will gratify hearing adam claims and miranda. so for them, it's just incredibly traumatic and we're talking about people like i say, you already have extreme physical and mental scars from that previous experiences. so this plan is absolutely a bridge tool. what we're going to put these people through. it can't be taken back
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and in court, they sat in the future. it's found that this plan is a loafer. well, we'll just bring them back. but we can't take a holler and reach out to see what we're doing to them as human beings. we can't just say, sorry for that. you know, it's impossible to ex, hers, not harm. catherine. there been many british officials who have stated on numerous occasions that off showing refugees does not in their opinion contravene for you in refugee convention up. but there are many rights activists and advocates out there who say that is simply not the case from your vantage point. is this action by the u. k. a contravention of international law? we would say it certainly is. and in saying that we are in agreement with you and hcr, which is the authority on the interpretation of the refugee convention. and that is the basis of international refugee law. i would highlight 2 elements,
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2 articles of the convention, article 33, which is the prohibition of reform home to send people back to a place where their lives are at risk. and it may be the case that given that rwanda's asylum system is a embryonic, as you and hcr has analyzed that people don't get protection and then are sent back to countries where they're at risk. there's also article $31.00 which prohibits states that a signatures to the convention from discriminating against people on the basis of the manner of their arrival. so this policy in general, in the u. k. many elements of the new board as act. but also this particular deal appears to contravene that part of international refugee law, which says that people shouldn't be treated differently according to how they arrive. and it's not illegal to cross borders to seek protection. and we would underline the large majority of those arriving in the u. k. having crossed the
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channel are found to be in need of international protection. so it's a group of people, many of whom refugees in need, of international protection and who shouldn't be penalized for the way that they've been forced to arrive in the u. k. joseph, as catherine just mention the you and hcr has said that rwanda does not have the capacity to process these asylum claims and that there is a risk of some migrant could be returned to countries from which they fled. what's your response to that? yo us. thanks a lot. i think i it depends on ah, which goose creek area, though you in a series the best on making that are, are noticed but her, what i can search for the last or 20 i'll one does the sooner if you do and are on the come up where now i africans are full no softer co
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b r. r mistreated lorenzo trailed to cross the that material now. awesome. saw out so that i wonder are, has the capacity to process that a she do? i am a catherine. let me get back to you about one of the points that joseph was making and he was saying that that were wanda, is able to do this. you know, many officials and want to have said that it is a safe country that they are welcoming to refugees. and migrants from your point of view you stated earlier that, that essentially, you know, it's embryonic as far as their being able to process this many asylum seekers. or do you think that they will be able to, to get to the point where they can process this and also why was, were wonder selected? so i think the number of different factors to mention. first of all,
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we would defer to you and hcr in it's assessment of the asylum system in rwanda. in terms of the situation in rwanda more generally are we note that even the u. k. government itself has noted in some of its reports that there are questions about the respect for human rights in rwanda. so that is something that also should be taken into account. and the, the reason a country enters into this kind of deal is for the benefits that they receive. and there's been a lot of publicity about the amount of money that will be provided to rwanda. and it's also a country where the leader, who likes to act as a provocateur in many senses and to go against the grain. and so that may be one of the reasons why this country, in particular, has decided to enter into a deal when so many other countries refused to do so, because they don't want to take on the responsibilities of
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a country like the u. k which has its international obligations and both has the means and the obligations to be offering protection to the small number of displaced people the actually arrived there in the u. k. so i think that's part of it. these kind of agreements as well as the money they also give a certain political leverage because it creates dependency on the country that's hosting people. so we see that, for instance, in the arrangements between the e u in turkey, which we also condemn. that gave us political leverage to, in that case, a political leader who is able to put pressure on europe and extract concessions because of hosting in that case for a great number of people. so those are the kind of factors that are involved. and i would underline that as well as the human rights considerations, one of the about since to the day, at least the cost, it looks massively expensive,
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which is what sales have been learnt from the use of this kind of model in australia. claire. busy let me ask you about what legal avenues are left to right now when it comes to challenging this plan. as i understand it, there is going to be a traditional review in the next month with regard to this new policy. um, if, if the opinion of the next additional review were to be that this policy is flawed, or if it is not illegal, would those who may have been transferred already to or want to be eligible to come back to the u. k. yes, the, the important hearing is the one in july, which is when the court will look at whether the policy is impact lawful. and if the court decides that isn't and yes, we can bring them back am. but the extreme damage that was injured is incredibly concerning. and a lot of people say so us, they're such a run that they will kill themselves. and i really don't know why that would leave
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us know. and the damage that we just individuals by the quotation and to that amazed. that's not something that we can either take ac is that and it's very hard for us to understand. bio guzman is carrying down the street when there are other things that we could do that would a much more humane. and i would say much more effective if we gave baez's to people in halley and other refugees, same as we did he grain ins. and that would put people smugglers out business, and that would stop people risk analysis in the channel. so i, we find it incredibly difficult to understand by the british government would go down a bit that is so incredibly bristol and dangerous, and cruel to refugees on this other options that are available. it would probably be more effective as one is no, he name joseph. um, i'll let you finish with the the point that you were making earlier. but i also want to ask you about the fact, you know, we're wandering officials of said the country has a proud history of welcoming those in need. and that rwanda is already home to more
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than a 130000 refugees and migrants from other african nations and other countries as well. you know, with there are a lot of activists and, and refugee advocates. others say that the refugees of migrants who sought better lives in britain are expected to find fewer chances to pursue their dreams in rwanda. what would you say to that in the yeah, no, i think so. the other, as i was saying for the us is that i wonder, has the capacity of all the mission they have a lot more than 100000. if you saw the contrast taking care of the literacy do so i think ronda has the capacity of the contract. so coming back to what you're saying, i think that is some i'll do some little sort of but i think there's some by us from, from, from the north where people think that countries in the, in the global south, dont have maybe we, we, we, we are still the dock will now be the but it's not functioning systems,
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but i can't, i can't, i can be a bottle so that i think rwanda is randa. how's? it has created an opportunity given it's history. it has created opportunities to each and every person you destructive all of what was buckled around, will have a grown so and, and on. and i think, ah, what the other up to this form, the global north are saying, it's just it by us the they have and they'd be on africa or all other countries in the, in the, in the global house. but i would say a, ronda has a. ready change to the one does put in place systems to be able to support the process and also make this clear. i think you can, the government has the right to get into end up on a ship with a country which they think they can the,
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the common kind of the tip they were government to process the asylum seekers saw bringing the law in the ones to one that doesn't mean that the process has ended the process, the process will continue. so it's, it's a try that. so i think that did. what should the enter go? could create mountain local. this is catherine. how concerned are you about the possibility that a refugee who faces a real risk of persecution could be refused asylum in rwanda? and then what, what happened? so according to the memorandum of understanding that is the basis of this agreement, and we should know that this is also one of the problems here. it's not a, an international agreement. it's the in the form of a memorandum of understanding and informal flimsy kind of a quarter agreement between the u. k. a. rwanda,
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which was that makes it more difficult to challenge legally. and so in that memorandum of understanding there are points that mentioned that rwanda will be able to send people onwards. so and people who are, are not, and didn't, did not receive a positive decision after and assigning prices in rwanda may be sent back to their and countries or to other countries. so there's the risk of course of reform, all that they would be sent back to their countries where they faced persecution. as i said earlier, the vast majority of those arriving currently in the u. k. across the channel are people in need of international protection, according to the u. k. cause. so there is as a strong risk there, that if somebody gets a negative decision in an asylum system which is are under construction, let's say that they're sent and, and refilled. and the other question is this part of the agreement that potentially
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allows them to be sent somewhere else? so is there a risk that they're then sent to another country that's cooperating with rwanda and where they may also face or other issues? but i think it's not, it's not a question of what, what, what tire assessment is of rwanda, as i said, we defer to you and hcr on that. i think it's also about the fact that the u. k. has international obligations and responsibilities and, and it is undermining international refugee lobe, international law, more generally by entering this kind of agreement. so it, it encourages other countries in the rich world to undermine international law and to attempt to circumvent their own obligations. claire, we just have about a minute left and just briefly, you know, boris johnson says that this is going to break the business model of criminal gangs
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. let me ask you 1st. do you think that's the case? and, and this is, is this something that's actually going to deter migration because people are still getting on board. we were still risking their lives? yeah, unfortunately, i think it's pretty clear that it's not any change. i, she say people are still crossing. and the british government has tried a number of policies that are fixed on tyrants, and none of them have had any effect at all. so even though it is more reasonable than any other, it isn't a fax to let policy. so why should i succeed when any of the files? and as i said, oh that why, why if the government were so sure that they want to be people smokeless, why right? and they try now, squire and they try something new if that's ready or other ways to do it, it would be more been more humane. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the discussion there. thanks so much to all of our guests. claire mostly, joseph ry, rasa, and katherine willard. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again
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any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to a facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside stored. you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle this at adrian. so i story from him. how much i'm doing the whole thing here. and i for now . ah, i was in a hands on journalist working in asia and africa. there'd be days where i'd be choosing and editing my own stories in a refugee camp with no electricity. and right now where confronting some of the greatest challenges that humanity has ever faced. and i really believe that the only way we can do that is with compassion and generosity and compromise. because up the only way we can try to solve any of these problems is together. that's why does it so important? we make those connections.
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