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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  October 3, 2022 10:30am-11:01am AST

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israel's prime minister has banked us, broke a deal marking a maritime border with lebanon. yet he says it will safeguard the country, security and commercial interests. he's even begs the idea of living on producing natural gas. but the opposition is criticizing the move. my love for sherwood couple of and more than 10 years israel has been trying to achieve this deal. the security of the north will be strengthened, the career rig will be activated and produce, guess the money will go into the coffers of this country. and energy dependence will be secured and this is a deal that strengthens israel, security and israel's economy. we have no opposition to an additional liberties gas field being developed from which we would of course receive the royalties due on such fields would weaken, lay beneath dependency on iran, restrain his vala and bring regional stability. hurricane or lean is making its way towards mexico and pacific coast. the category 3 hurricane is headed towards the
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tourist towns of muscle tone and san blas. puerto vallarta has already lost a closed it's port to all marine traffic. as a precaution, olean is expected to make land fall on monday. i this is al jazeera and these are the top stories this out, the british government has dramatically you turned on many budget that was announced 10 days ago, chancellor. quasi qua ting said he's reversing. it's proposed scrapping of the top right of income tax. the announcement of the plan last month said financial markets into a spin with a pound reaching record lows against the dollar. brazil as presidential contest is headed for a run off left us candidates lauretha, marcia lula. the silver one, the 1st round of voting but not with the numbers needed to avoid a 2nd round. hill faced incumbent jaya bol scenario on october,
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the 30th t totally forgot. i know everyone wanted us to win the 1st round, but in my life a belief that drives me and motivates me is that nothing happens by chance. and during this whole campaign with the polling, i always thought we were going to win these elections. and we are going to win these elections, and this, this is for us just to pause. things are not good and we need to recover this country. and it's image on the international stage. speaking of the results were announced, incumbent president, j, a boss in our acknowledge brazilians is struggling with the state of the economy. but as you build your slowly brother, what worries me is brazil losing its freedom in brazil moving to the left like venezuela, argentina, columbia, and chilly? that's my concern. the 1st victim in these cases is the freedom of the people and going backwards. we've nothing to gain and everything to lose. the president of
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indonesia is every, my football club says he is ready to take full responsibility. after 125 people were killed in a stampede following a match on saturday. people have been paying tributes outside the stadium where one of the world's worst sports disasters unfolded. indonesia, security minister says an independent team will investigate what happens. will ukraine has climbing more progress in its counter offensive against russian forces in the east. president followed him is zalinski says his troops have reclaimed the strategic town of lee man. vessel for now inside story is next. i care about how the u. s. a deal with the roof of the world. i cover foreign policy, national curity. this is a political im house. here is the conflict or withholding a good story. we're really interested in taking you to a point that you might not visit otherwise. it actually feels that you were there are israel and lebanon, close to resolving their long running maritime border dispute. the u. s. has
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offered a proposal to clarify their boundaries and an area with potentially huge gas of it . so what is at stake and will a deal help improve relations between the 2 countries? this is inside. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm fully back. he bought a long running dispute between israel and lebanon, may soon be resolved. both countries lay claim to the same stretch of ocean in the eastern mediterranean that could contain lucrative gas deposits. a u. s. mediator has sent a written proposal to both lebanon and israel to demarcate the maritime border. the 2 countries disagree on the boundary separating very exclusive economic zones. the contested waters contains carriage gas filled and the kind of prospect. israel
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claims the boundary runs north at line one, giving it the right to operate in carriage. but lebanon puts the border further south at line 23. in 2012, a. u. s. mediator proposed a midway solution called the half line, but it wasn't accepted. a decade later, lebanon demanded the boundary, be pushed south to line 29. the latest u. s. proposal is said to offer a compromise. the 2 countries would share the kind of field while the carriage would stay in israel zone is in a harder explained. somebody wrote a long standing maritime border dispute between lebanon and israel. maybe close to being resolved. a written proposal is now on the table. it's based on years of intermittent and indirect negotiations mediated by the united states. a deal would be a rare diplomatic breakthrough between enemies that would unlock valuable underwater
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resources, but it would also position the eastern mediterranean as an energy hub, supplying europe as it seeks replacements for russian gas. there is a need that has been created due to the russian ukrainian war. europe is looking at the east mediterranean as one possible source. israel is already unexplored, her energy and wants to significantly add to its output by starting to produce gas at its courage field. but there are security concerns the iranian back to arms group, hezbollah has said it has the capability to obstruct the sale of gas to europe. if lebanon's rights in the maritime region aren't recognized. israel dismiss the threats and warned of a war if there is any attack. but despite the tough talk, all parties have shown readiness to reach a deal lebanese officials and has the law have called it a historic opportunity for the country. grappling with
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a major financial crisis. lebanon hasn't been able to begin drilling because international companies won't explore the area until the border dispute is resolved . the proposed compromise is believed to involve including cutting field in israel's economic zone. while most of the nearby carno will go to lebanon, even though there are no proven reserves in that field, the agreement won't become formal until the parties finalize it. during indirect meetings, at a un base near their border. a breakthrough doesn't signal piece or a normalization of relations, but it could reduce tensions and allow gas to flow from under the sea than a 100 for inside story. while the leader of lebanon says, bowler group has called the proposal a significant step pass on as says he hopes a resolution will open up major economic compet. trinity's is allow hustle china, who we are all aware of 50 theory, a rating situation, globally, views, food,
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cash flows, etc. the situation is suspecting even european countries. lebanon is waiting for foreign loans and assistance. while we have our own riches within our own waters. if this issue comes to a favorable outcome, it will be the product of our unity and solidarity. it is not the time to seek political gains. we should bank on our own points of strength. and israel's prime minister, suppose the deal, and has even backed the idea of lebanon producing natural gas in disputed waters. the case if you can, this is, this is a deal that strengthens israel, security and israel, the economy. we have no opposition to an additional liberties gas field being developed from which we would of course receive the royalties to us such a field would we can live in these dependency on iran, restrain hezbollah, and bring regional stability. ah,
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well let's bring in august now for today's inside story in beirut, laurie hi t on an oil and gas analyst and a political activists. and in west jerusalem, russell shall live a lawyer and researcher at the court lead policy for him. and he's really think tank. thank you both for joining us on inside story laurie in baby. let me start with you. they seems to be a renewed sense of urgency to get an agreement on this long running maritime dispute between lebanon and israel, with the lebanese authorities receiving the u. s. mediators proposal you get a sense that we are nearing ideal definitely this is the sensory getting and they route that this is almost done. deed and the love it and they route or it is here, are very positive about the deal and they're talking about progress and positive signs and even has vala, which was, which was thought to be a spoiler yesterday has on the law had had
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a very positive statement about the deal, so i guess the atmosphere and the environment you to be with is that it is going to happen as soon and i think with everything that we're hearing today in israel, i think that will push more for the u. s. m a g to push for the to happen before the election outcome and before may be enough and yelled, taking over from what you're hearing. he's against d. so i think time wise, there is no overlap between 11 on one thing a deal. the soon as before the end of the president's mandate by 31 october. and it seems that there is a rush, even in israel because he wants the g to the end, the extra come against the d. so this overlap might make it even sooner than expected. it might be fine. let's get the view from west jerusalem russel, how is this proposed deal being viewed in israel, and is there
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a sense of urgency there? as laurie says, well, 1st i want to emphasize the absolute tragedy of this deal, right? lebanon is a failed states. it's, it's ruled by a rainy and a puppet regime. this deal will not benefit the lebanese people, rather, it will allow, because by law and the, and the iranian government tickets and salutes and to plunder lebanon, natural resources. i further want to emphasize, right? israel is a democracy and we are in election season. the current government has no, has no public mandate to commit to make to make this deal, it cannot be done under a caretaker, transitional government. it has no mandate for this deal. ok will allow laurie to respond. we don't know laurie the exact terms, of course, and the devil is in the details. but from the, the reports and statements that you've seen, how would 11 on benefits from this deal. and so, 1st of all,
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i think like lebanon is desperate for a deed, on the maritime borders, because they do believe that this deed will have is the pressure that is lebanon. that 7 on is going through, especially the political class, to do the forms from the international community. the donors community from the i m . s, from the word, but every, the, every but the 17 on 2 duty forms and that the government of lebanon is reluctant to do so. they believe that the deed would is the pressure. and then if the thought is committed to start working to discover or in, and then or the discovered that would help as well for lebanon to have a better deal with that. and if it is in place, and then for the thing that car, the oil and gas card to get out of the economic crisis we're living in, especially to is the pressure on the reforms that the, that the government is asked to undergo. what about has been law? would it agree to,
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to anything that the lebanese government agrees on under this proposed d, a which, according to reports, again, nothing is confirmed yet. carry shield would remain in these ready waters and a greater share of the kind of field for lebanon, even though we don't know whether there is actual gas in khana would, has been la, agree to this proposal. oh, well, of course has. well, i have been consulted on all the steps that led to today's proposal. that's why what we're hearing from has was, these are things like this is a positive step towards a solution. that means that they agree on the clause and the provision of the deed . so what we are seeing, today's life has law, is not very much interested about where the board, those are. it is talking more about like the need to exploit the oil and gas research that we have because they do believe that that will change the face of lebanon, and that will help log on recover. definitely. we know that this comes with cave. yes. when a country like lebanon has full governance,
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when we have institutional failure, when do we do have corruption as high a high level corruption? we know that in, in, in, by, by a, by looking at other places when you have to governance and all these problems with corruption and institution failure on and that doesn't come and has the country to recover. but once again, this is the card that has been asleep to push for the for this month. and this will happen because they see it as an economy as an economy that this, this might, it's on board that has economy and benefits more than political or anything. all right, laurie, as you heard russell shallow say not everyone in israel agrees with this proposed deal. israel, former prime minister and it's opposition leader now benjamin that's now accused the current prime minister. yeah. le pete of giving up israeli territory and hiding the details of the proposed deal from the public. take a listen. will it be in my dad's lap?
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he does not have a mandate to give an enemy country sovereign territories and sovereign property which belong to all of us. if this illegal hijacking passes, we will not be bound on november 1st, we will return to israel a strong and experienced leadership that maintain security for all of us. russell shall have what is at stake, foil rail here? well, my, my colleagues were, it's really go to underscore why the is really public as opposed to the steel 1st of all, right. why? why is the, is really government keeping the details of the steel from the company is really public, but there is no reason for israel to get what can be going to be turned or can be presented as a, as a victory to, to, to, to the is really, public is firmly against territorial concessions. right? we have, we have done that in the past. we've done an 11 or we've done a gas that we've done in many places where not we've, we've only gotten terror. we're not, we're not interested in giving and giving prices to, to, to
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a rainy and puppet. but this would allow, is where i would need to, to extract gas from carriage without any security threats. because of course, lebanon and bala had threatened, you know, some sort of attack, if israel were to go ahead with extracting gas from carriage without this agreement . but now that they seem to be agree, an agreement in the worst, wouldn't this allow israel to, to achieve some of the energy energy needs that it said it would, through carriage korea was, was always under israeli control and is really sovereignty right? israel should not be listening to, to, to the threats because, well, the truth is because block is a, is a, is a paper tiger. israel should be. so that said not the condition if it's economic growth and access to with natural gas on, on the bus threats. ok. lori russell is clearly opposed to this proposed deal.
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we heard his position there, but i, i want our viewers to understand what is at stake for israel here. you've told us about what's at stake for lebanon, but why would the current is really government, agree to this deal as the sign seems to be indicating look from what we're hearing from the israeli side 1st, before they are saying that at the end of the day, if this kind of feed is discovered the prospect, we will get there and we will get compensation from that the fees. so therefore we're not giving away anything. and then i think the more the major issue for the israelis and why they're doing this is to secure stability in the region. and they feel that if level on the undergo embark on finding oil and gas and having a platform very close to that is really easy. so therefore, there will be this, the children's will level on would be less interested in going to work with this,
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right? because they do have this economic interest of keeping the platform working and having all and, and i think one other issue that is the same and that i'm hearing from the news and his read is like they think that if it did is made the love going to bed between that one on is read if on find all and golf, that was even the country that would make 11 or less interested than one. and that will, that will make living on less dependent or at least has detached from iran. wouldn't you think fluid in lebanese politics and know that will not be right. i mean, one thing that i mentally has iran would it runs into iran, i've been on so definitely it was not reduced as well as dependence on iran because iran has what they have. this is every nation that will last for ever. and no one has to think that anything that happens 11 on any economic
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recovery that would mean that iran would let go of our has well, i would that school of iran that is a very organic relationship and it was not, it's will not. and so it's the same like when they think that if iran, if you don't, goes into a j t p or a did again, that will put them away from having a weapon or a nuclear weapon, which will not happen. iran, we want to have nuclear weapons weapon, whatever happens. so at the end of the day is red is looking at this deal from a security lens more than from an economic land, which is on the other side from the revenue side. this is true economic di that they're making because they've been on, wants to benefit from its oil and gas, et cetera, and move on with the recovery. again, taking that with a bit of force because of the situation. and we have to do the forms before being able to benefit from our oil and gas sector. but that is, this is what this pushing the lebanese government and the israeli government is pushed by the security obsession that they have. and they think that would bring
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them stability and it will stabilize the orders. ok, russell. your response laurie says israel through this deal is looking for a sick for more or better security. what is your view on this? so 1st i would like to make 2 points, right? currently iran is facing major address. the continuing a rule of the whole as the craddick regime is being threatened. so again, israel and the united states and the international community should not be, should be standing with uranium people and not doing the thing that will do right now. it is a lemon. and he runs directly with israel, with a u. s. mediator. yes. level, lebanon, lebanon, lebanon, is a puppet regime of, i'll be run, but, but 2nd of all, right, i want to speak about domestic israeli legal issues. right?
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again, we have an election here in one, in one month, right? the current government is a transitional government. it has no mandate to make it to make the steel and, and legally it's bound to act in, in the act with restraints. for the more, according to israeli constitutional law, the, the transfer of any sovereign is really towards the territory requires a national referendum. so so, so, so guess if there, if there, if there will be another government in november that government will not be bound by the conditions and the terms of the deal. so you are saying that this my drug on because indeed netanyahu has the has promised to take this through the legal route . if the deal goes through and is agreed by the current government, what impact is it going to have on the elections? you think? i mean, i think that this could, this could potentially sharpen the divide between,
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between like, between left left and right. unfortunately, right. israel's been having an election instability, much of a campaign isn't based on, on, on perth, on different personalities. but this will, will clarify the majority of these really population is again, territorial concessions. and you see a center left left government being a power only 2 or 2 or 3 months. and already agreeing to give up to give up is really territory. and again, again, if, if they want to, if they wants to do this, then make public the details of this deal. i'm sure the details will be made public in just a few days. laurie, let me come back to you and talk more about the implications for lebanon. you mentioned that having access to, to natural gas fields, would no doubt be a welcome source of revenue for lebanon. but how do we ensure, as you've said that the money would benefit the lebanese people and that it won't
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disappear in the coffers of a corrupt government where there is no regulation of the funds. how do we ensure that there is transparency and so definitely it. so they, we, the ones that we cannot and for that and but let me tell you that this issue of developing oil and gas resources into becoming and production and becoming revenues if you want to monetize it takes a lot a lot of time. so if we are going to start, like it's not going to start exploiting 1st we need to have discoveries can show you to is read or to cyprus or you just read all that discovery is yet. so 1st we have to go into discoveries that takes time. then we need to decide like how to develop and produce the got and what the market will be. is it local market or regional market or international markets. all of that requires a lot of time because of the lesson and it requires the vision for the country which we lack on all of the vision we locked. so that, that you will have investments with that because we lack any kind of recovery plan
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. so definitely there is a lot of work. that's why i'm seeing that we shouldn't go easy on the political class. we shouldn't either on the government of lab and on and let it go and take it easy on them when it comes to the form, the forms necessary so that we are able to benefit from the oil and gas sector and for the nice people will benefit from the oil and gas sector. so that's why maybe today this deal will be one step forward. but there's a lot that the population needs to do to ensure that the government is going through the forms. and we will need the help of the international community to force living on and the government to go into the reforms. so that later on when oil and gas comes, it could support the economy. and that could benefit the people unless we don't, if we don't do all of this, it will be in other ways for generations to come. and so laurie, looking at the big picture now, and looking at the political issues a bit closer, where wouldn't agreement leave the broader israeli lebanese dynamic?
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do you think it would help reduce tensions and look definitely. it's when diffuse tension, but it will not need to anything more than that. i know we've been hearing about normalization. we've been hearing about possible piece all of that. all of that is not on the agenda of the lebanese people on the lebanese government. this is a deal that is necessary to unlock the potential for oil and gas, and this is how the government of lebanon is doing it. and it was up there. if we think that this did might, and the d and the war between 11 on israel or the situation between 111 on is and it's will need to piece this is wrong. it's not going to be to the to that place. so this is just to me and an opportunity for the lebanese government to sign the seat and to move on with the unlocking the potential for oil and gas
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and, and that's it. it stops there. ok, russell. let me ask you the same question in west jerusalem, what, what are the implications for the broader relationship between israel and lebanon? could this help reduce tensions if it is agreed? so, you know, i would, i would hope that webinar on. the 11th people are able to get their house in order and get rid of the black territory. and there's no reason that that's because by law, right, couldn't join the somebody to be, to be, to the amorous the bahrain to morocco. the abraham accord and reap the reap the benefits of trade and normalization with israel. unfortunately, this, this deal is not even a direct agreement between israel and 11 on its agreement of israel with the united states. and on sunday, with the, with, with the united states. and unfortunately, i don't see the steel leading to any sort of normalization of fact that only it
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only strengthens his beloved rejection. as an extreme, it's politics laurie. i want to let you respond to that. russell seems to give a lot of importance to has been in terms of, you know, they're the place in the go stations in the, in the steel. is that the case? i mean, is really running things here. look, i think they are in the, the, out in the, in the period of elections as it was mentioned and during elections, we become very populous at the end of the day. and that's on yahoo has decided to go to negotiations between with lebanon. and i think by, by october 2021, that new construction were launched and the thumbnail was empower that has been, i wasn't lebanon, and today, after 2 years has been listed in lebanon. so i think that populates the brought off of the of what's happening of the extra now it's just like we can put it in the,
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in the, in the environment of elections. and that's it. i think after the election is nathaniel, when it comes to power and the deed is made, he will follow the close of the view and he will not canceled it. all right, we had thoughts of the negotiate. she did stop the negotiations. indeed, we're going to have to leave it there. thank you very much both for a very interesting discussion, lori. hey, ty and russell shall have. thank you for joining us and thank you for watching. you can always watch this program again any time by visiting our website at knology 0 dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can of course, also join the conversation on twitter. we are a great inside story from me for back to boy and the whole team. thanks for watching i for the ah, combining ours and technology to challenge soviet era methodologies through
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