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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  October 27, 2022 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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it's actually same blood loose thing use in doha. it's world's best practice in terms you mitigating the rich at the high profile lachelle public being used in wide. it could have been done differently and magnified security problems, less for each legal situation where they would have to be more use more visible. no, chris, yet security thing use. i think we're getting the thought and it looked at more of the world. we jo, this woke up genom far on early stages are absolutely world's best practice, neil fergus, we appreciate your being with us and i'll just him, sir. thank you very much indeed for your time. ah, this is al jazeera, these are the top stories,
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a historic deal is being signed between lebanon and israel to resolve a longstanding border disputes. the agreement is aimed at opening up oil and gas exploration in the mediterranean sea, the stigma delete. local you. this is a political achievement, it's not every day that an enemy recognizes the state of israel been in a written agreement in front of the entire international community. it's not every day that the united states of france stand behind us and provide security and economic guarantees for the agreement. and then the callers got more of a deal from the lebanon israel bout border in southern lebanon, vested interest at historic deal, but both sides insisting that it is limited in scope. it only involved alienating the maritime border. lebanon is, has repeatedly said that this is not the peace treaty. this does not signify in any way a normalization of relations. and the foreign policy of this country will not change . the later statement coming from the president seems to be in response to what the
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israeli, a prime minister said, that this is a political achievement. and a de facto recognition of, of the state of israel. ukraine says what weather and difficult to rain are making his counter offensive in the southern castle region. more challenging, moscow backed authorities have been evacuating civilians from the city as keeps forces advance. southeast asian countries have failed again to take a tough stance against me and mars military rulers and an emergency meeting of foreign ministers discussions centered around developing a new strategy in dealing with his young term. a funeral for prominent pakistani journalists are shun shareef is being held in the capitol. islamabad sheriff was shot dead by kenyan police, and what officials say was a case of mistaken identity. civil society groups trade unions and students are protesting, intro lanka, amid ongoing unrest over the economic situation there. and also frustrated about the suppression of earlier protests. a surgeon was spiritual illness among young
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children and parts of the u. s. as experts worried, it usually causes fever, cough and runny noses and children under the age of 5. and those are the headlines. the muse continues here on al jazeera in about 25 minutes time. that's after inside story. good bye. ah. a long standing relationship in crisis, the french and german leader as me, as they disagree on the war in ukraine, defense and energy policies. what sort of fall out? could there be if the used to biggest economies can't find common ground? this isn't i story.
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ah hello and welcome to the program i'm getting obligate on the relationship between germany and france is often described as the motor that drives the european union. the blocks to biggest economies were closely together to shape policies that affect the rest of the continent. but their alliance is under strain. germany's chancellor and francis presidents have held talks to resolve their differences. they've classed on european positions on energy defense and the war and ukraine. a yearly meeting between french and german ministers was fas bones at the last minutes. and other e u members, including poland and latvia, have accused berlin of not acting in the blocks common interest. frances leader had this to say at an in new summit in brussels last week. he should palsky republican
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be. i think it's not good for a country to isolate so, so i think our role is to do everything for europe and unity if we're germany to be part of us. and so i really hope that we can find these path suckling versions. we are moving forward and we will continue to do so. we'll bring in our guess in a moment, but 1st here's how summer, how about our reporting from paris. the meeting is more of an attempt to portray a sense of unity between the 2 leaders of the e. u. french president manuel macro and the german chanter all off. short. one of the differences is about a cap on energy prices. friends has been moving forward towards imposing a cap to try to rain in, in the soaring prices that have been battling the the economy in the european continent and germany has been sag. no, we have to wait and oft, instead for moving forward as a single voice and try to buy natural gas at a lower price. germany is putting this
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a $100000000000.00 special fun to modernize it's military. the french initially welcomed them, but then they were frustrated when they saw the germans announcing that they're going to buy f $35.00 fighter jets from, from the americans, and also an anti miss sigh, anti as system basically a combination of german, israeli, and american systems. now the german chancellor is going to travel to china to meet with the chinese pre me next month. the 1st we're hoping to be able to be part of that trip to tell the chinese that why the a wing to do business with them. that the how to understand that you is pretty much concerned about what i described as a growing political and economic influence and influence of china. and globally, the germans decided ultimately to go on their own. because they said that they have a wide range of issues to, to do and tackle with the chinese this was seen as somehow an act of betrayal or by the, by the germans. and this explains why the french are remain pretty much concerned.
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they say that this is the moment when the germans, the french, should come together, send a strong signal to the international community that why there's a war in the continent. there's inflation, there's 4 peices of energy. we're still united and whatever decision we're going to take in the future, it was, is going to be basically to maintain the unity among different countries of the european union. so as you've been hearing tension between the 2 countries has been building for several months. now let's take a closer look at their biggest sticking points. firstly, germany's coalition government is no longer keeping to former chancellor angular merkle, policy on arms exports. it's been slow to provide heavy military equipment to ukraine on energy. germany is against imposing a cap on gas prices that france once. it also wants paris to authorize a new pipeline to carry gas and later on, green hydrogen from spain. but france has refused. and some countries say berlin is
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being irresponsible by pouring billions of dollars into its own economy. that criticism comes after it offer 200000000000 in state, a to german businesses and households to get them through the energy crisis. ah, let's not bring in our gas. joining us from brussels as peter clipper, who's the editor of brussels report. you. that's a news website on your matters. and mark to burg germany as eva hydra brother, professor of multi level governance in europe, but also von gurkin, university of mark burge and in brussels, as julian home to the european policy specialist and member of renaissance that the french governing party. welcome to you all. thanks so much for your time with us on insight story, eva over to you 1st. is this a relationship in crisis? i'm not sure if we really had a for a decent crisis. what we know, what makes the german french relationships for the you overall in german or french positions are often quite far apart. but in germany and france
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managers to, to, to resolve their problems. and that is usually a deal that many of the united states multiple stand behind because they come from different than know what is different, maybe this time. then the, the level of stress and pressure extremely high. it works a bit as, as a catalyst to preexisting tension. you already mentioned defense issues, how to invest and what and the fence and also the internal treatment of energy, the internal energy markets and internal energy policies have a dish breakfast. and those, those 2 differences are really emphasized by the crisis at the mom plus i thing, thing that is a crucial crucial point. and although they're all on the mantel differences between
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berlin and parish, but longstanding differences on how to manage your fiscal policy and how to financing and all these things come together and resolving these problems now. and i won't be to, to skeptical that these forms cannot be overcome, but it's a long way. it is really exceptional. these meetings, this minister has been cancelled, and it's not going very smoothly. right. part of the do with that, but i don't generally say they pulled the different say it's hard work. ok, you bring the number of issues and we're certainly going to drill down into some of the reasons their relationship appears to be fact tissues and just a moment. the 1st, let me go over to julian because one of the leading french newspaper is julian in an editorial describe the franco german relations as glacial. is that
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an assessments you agree with, and we need to frame everything. in fact, as media outlets of frequency trying to get more viewers, so they tend to maybe hope things up little bit, especially when it comes to crises like this. but we have to be honest that there is a very serious problem with the franco german ship. right now, because not only have we got the german government going solar when it comes to energy policy now and ignoring the ability to work with the french and of it, you states annoying everybody. not only do we have the german government now pushing for china to purchase key infrastructure and the doc of hamburg. and not only do we have the snob from the meeting last week, the summit, which is very important, happens every year. but recently we've had a string of events where the german government's most likely due to internal
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wrangling and trying to sort of display some position at home. have been snubbing different governments in several ways. last month there was a spring meeting between elizabeth bon, the prime minister and the shoots, which was 1st cancels then a video conference was cancelled afterwards because schultz was too sick to attend . and then a few hours after this, the shows appeared in a video at the press conference for those don't have time or not, where he announced the 200000000000 euro energy released packages that he had discussed. absolutely nobody. so there seems to be a lot of free wheeling irresponsibly in many ways by the front german government, sorry, which is rubbing paris the wrong way. and this is a problem at the time of geopolitical crisis when we have crises and ukraine, iran canister, many other places where we need this sort of narrative. ok, let's bring and peter, give us your thoughts on why this could be happening now. and whether you agree with what julian had to say describing german behavior as quote,
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irresponsible well, i do think that we see indeed a change. and the explanation is relatively simple. it is that the germany is becoming a normal country. it does no longer feel the need to, to, to make certain concessions because of its world war 2 guilds basically, to the extent that it used to make these concessions. however depth set. i think if you look at what both sites are annoyed about, you know, the solution is not necessarily so complicated to sum up, i think the solution is to try to remain within the spirits of, of european cooperation. and if you, for example, look at the 200000000000 the relief package mass spending by the german government to help its companies mean clearly this is not in line with the single market with fair competition. so i think the french definitely have a point on the other hand,
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when franz is asking for price regulation, and germany warning that if you regulate the prices of gas, you may end up with no gas. i think there to look at it from the european spirit and the market mechanism. germany is more on the right side of affairs. also, when it comes through the gas pipeline, that germany would be keen on between, you know, spain and germany, probably also france goods, rethink its, its opposition so. so these differences are, can definitely be breached. but it basically entails germany to understand that it is fine to pursue its own self interest. but it is in the self interest of germany to stick to the original spirit of, of european corporation and to the fundamentals of the, of the single market. ok, let's drill down now into some of the specifics you've all mentioned them,
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but i'd like to focus on defense to begin with. so have other defense strategy as we've been saying is, is one issue of commentators over in france. have said that the way that berlin has chosen to go to down its own way rather than find an accord with parents. for example, when it comes to buying f $35.00 fighter jets from the united states. why would this alarm france evo? well, the victim, which was also central for a frances presidency of the rotating you presidency, is the beginning of this year. the 1st hall was european serenity to establish different capacities that it gives europe and thomas leeway based on. ready always stop are not very capable actually. so the 100000000 in germany are money to fill
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gaps. we have been just shifting material from one part to another part of the only 2 peak different cooperation. but then always ending up with being a frenchman. and it cuts up big money, it's not even money that will be a permanent boast. so we don't know how you read maybe much more money in order to overcome this huge gap immediately. and the approach at this time to bide from rec, not to develop these poses a lot of a rotation for joined, for almost sustainable europe based defense capacity building right on the french. that is the background. like let me just a local thing has to do with internal struggle over the german governing coalition to come to terms with, with the hyper problem. and that explains
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a lot. not only is peter sent that germany has become in almost the country. we see it in the sense and other fields in different ways which alter p. understand right. and julian, that is something that you brought up a moment ago that this could have something to do with germany's domestic politics . the differences that we are now witnessing between germany in front julian, but let me ask you about this issue of the cap on gas prices, which germany is against, and france once. how big is the difference there? and how do you narrow the difference? i mean, like everything like peter just doesn't like a said, it's going to be a question of actually div countries corporate thing. frank needs to corporate of john in germany corporate with france, but as eva just reads, richards, the german coalition right now is currently in the middle of a, a conflict. and suddenly, when the greens don't want to follow the to be line, they have to be line doesn't want to work with the s p
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d line. and if they don't listen to the green lever, so you have an issue, particularly when it comes to nuclear power. and this is impacting the prices, but just to go back to what even just said about the defense, it's trued up. so for example, when he announced the 100000000 in defense, i believe us o analysis. i said those half of that was going to be spent on just replenishing, rotted munitions for the on and some the john military boats. i don't think that that's the same. the only thing, there's also be in a series of issues where germany decided to go and work on the franco german tiger helicopter, which is going to be a key parts in both countries. air force and european air force, this council joint navy patrols and by finding the defense shield lives, i think it was 13 native states. i think. that's right. nathan members. yeah, yes. this is a problem because normally and it's, it's trains because normally we see fans dance. use of going rogue and friends
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about it's german partner. but now we're seeing the german state is whatever reason i'm trying to move away from the franco german engine, which is not good or bad if it's done in the right way. and it includes everybody. but it's a problem for different goods on the relationship. ok, and on the issue of the energy crisis, of course, largely as a result of the ukraine war, peter, germany's decision to offer $200000000000.00. euro's excuse me, in state 8 to businesses and households to get them through that energy crisis. this was seen as a betrayal by france, germany, right? to go at this alone? no. no. as i mentioned, i think it's not very hard to see this as the relation of very competition within the european union, a subsidies or banks. and you know, if you're talking about such a massive support program, it's hard to argue that this is merely supporting businesses in a, in a reasonable manner. did this goes way beyond?
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certainly when you have the same government that still has not decided to keep, it's a nuclear power stations open. i mean, if you're in the middle of the energy crisis, it's, it's, it's just surprising to see that anybody could still argue in favor of shutting down perfectly functional nuclear plants. and you can say of france, what you want. and the french government has not always pursued pursuit perfect policies, but when it comes to energy, when it comes to do strategy to defense, france has always been a very responsible government. and i think germany in on those area should probably learn from france. it can of course, make its own decisions, but like the decision to know, several parts of the, the ports of hamburg to you know, a conglomerate that is controlled by the chinese communist party. and this is also very puzzling, especially if you look at the situation of germany and isn't after it has made itself way through the pendant of russia gas,
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not only because it's shutting down nuclear, but also because it has reduced investment in domestic fossil fuels. you know, it's one thing to shut down fossil fuel production. it's another thing to start with shutting down european fossil fuel production. you would expect to 1st reduce non european, a fossil fuels import before you shut down your own fossil fuel production. so, so i think germany can really learn a lot from the french government, everything china just a moment ago. i'll just stick with you on this one question because there is also the issue of china and the german chancellor does have a plan to travel to china, reportedly, a low next month without european partners. how is that being viewed? you think? not only in france, but in europe, other countries in europe. well, this is, of course, confirming the analysis that off there having made itself to the pendant on russia,
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germany is repeating the same mistake with china. i mean, i'm a little, i'm personally willing to forgive germany a little bit on that. i think the ration ship of china is simply very, very complex. i mean, do we stop all trade with china? that's not a good idea. do we become way too dependent on china? that's obviously also another good idea. so frankly, i think some kind of a middle grounds will have to be found. and the fact that germany has now decided to go on its own. well, it's good for example, correct? by, you know, organizing yet another mission with other european partners at a later stage. so, so it's possible to man this, but yet to get it right to china. i think it's, it's not easy. ok, totally. and how will allies be looking at all of this? will they be rattled by these divisions? well, i think non european allies may will just believe that this is a speed bump enough to get by contract. and we'll be hoping that things do get back
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on track. because i mean on military matters, we need to be coordinated on energy matters. we definitely need to coordinate that as it reduces all possibility of being blackmailed by rogue states like the russian states. but just to go back to the point on china very quickly. this is becoming a problem because across the will, lots of states are asking them, so why on earth is germany going on to china? it's amazing thing as if they're rushing to be the 1st person to go and see the new leader you in china. when, for example, when the european commission was making ships to china and they'll see that a big effort to get everybody involved when france was organizing ships to go to china to visit, they brought along european leaders as well. and germany seems to be booking this trend, surely because of, i mean, i'm not sure if evil peter. ready agree with me, but it's pure self interest. they're trying to position themselves rather than positioning the european union. okay, let me bring, let me bring an evil on this point and not just particularly on china,
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even if we can just for the sake of time, if we can talk about moving forward, how does trust begin to get repaired between the 2 leaders of france and germany and looking ahead also even do you think this is going to be a lead to some sort of re definition or respect of franco german relations? well, 1st i think germany won't be able to show any will print less energy. how to defend and international relations without european, as from european island. and i think energy hopping a national policy and their high pressure on it. and we are beginning of very hard think ocean versus like coming from very different fights. germany said on the natural golf cart to get a green transition will import anymore and save all the points about no planting that have been said. never has a long history of getting out of nuclear energy back in the the national price of
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getting back in a 16 the climate complicated china is a big issue in germany. this cell, this is deal with a port. it is a government. my name is charlotte. personal has been pushed by 6 minutes, were against 7 strong positions to reduce the share, the buying to 25 percent so that they don't have a look. and there's other, you repeat for the hassle parts of his big 4th. so on all these issues we need you coordination. ok. germany and france then even have the political will to reassure their european allies. but they still are the driving force behind the you. i'm not sure if we, if that is the immediate that will work, but i'm quite positive. there will be learning and understanding not without the cooperation is maybe still
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a bit too early for germany to say we will do it through your budget, but i don't see for resolving certain issues. 7 away around. ok, let me read peter final word to you. peter. we have about a minute left on the program. our european allies want to be reassured in any way going forward. well, when you're talking about no repairing the relationship, i think we just need to go back to the original spirit of european corporations. and one of the things from just pushing for to go to italy is an extra european death. i mean, i don't think that does a solution. now you typically see that this undermines unity transfers calls big tensions and discussion. so i would definitely avoid that now. ad julian, final word to you. how do you see this playing out? i mean, i think like a lot of the issues that her encounter different german,
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particularly when it was merkel and so cozy or she can believe in long there are going to be some tough points are going to be difficulties and we got it easy bits of the my correlation ship, we're not cold and all that shows this points, but i think that like we will, the predecessors, these 2 will come to a, an agreement even if it comes to pressure for the parliamentary or the ministers, or of actors. because the states understand the importance of european unity of european corporation. and this is something that has made the franco german couple so powerful answer, influential. so i think we will see a resolution, but the problem is, how long will that take? yeah, that is a big question. ok, thank you so much. we'll have to leave it there. thanks for joining us. peter. cliff, a eva hider, burger and julian hos. we appreciate your time. thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion. you can go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash ha,
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inside story. you can join the conversation on twitter. our handle is a inside story from myself and the whole team here and how thanks for watching and bye bye for now the me ah and a sense of belonging, walk down any street in park town. he can feel the presence of the van community and the every day heroes keeping communities together. logo's overs, logos uh g 0, visits at the veterans community to want to canada,
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