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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  January 14, 2023 8:30pm-9:01pm AST

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in profit sanitation, its also announced restrictions on the sale of pre cooked food. the health minister has urged people to get vaccinated to slow the transmission of the water born to see a bit of wood and with a, with demand middle to says we've received 2900000 doses of the color of vaccine. but as we speak, we have about 40000 left. it means malawi and scott, the facts saying, what is warring however, is that those that received the vaccine and not the ones at high risk. those that are high risk approving, difficult to convince to take the vaccine and that's one of the world's largest muslim gatherings is underway, bangladesh. hundreds of thousands of people have come from all over the world to the outskirts of jacka, the 1st 2 days back to the 900 sixty's and consist of 3 days of praise and lectures from scholars to discuss versus from the koran are
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watching al jazeera, these the headlines this out to new jersey is opposition is leading rally in the capital, demanding the president strip down over worsening economic crisis. the rallies are taking place on the 12th anniversary of the jensen revolution. demonstrators pushed through police barriers to reach the cities main boulevard. lazy of oakland has this update from timmy it's been one of the largest or the largest most and adjusts it. says that the thing since i 5 power grab. yeah. mostly the the price, but the thing about $1.00 or 2 thousands and the brady swell. i think josh does the same thing probably they said but, but i guess i think we had enough time to the show to, to the side of the president to just call it says enemy rather than the real solution to the crisis that you're asked, the downward spiral the name,
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the talk to israel, where thousands of people in television protesting plans to over hold the judicial system. they say planned by the new government, led by prime minister benjamin netanyahu could wake in the supreme court and that threatens freedom and democracy to palestinians have been killed by israeli forces in the occupied west bank. they were accused of firing and israeli troops need you name these. i'm a g had group says the true men were fighters from wing called the alec could brigade, ukraine's his russia has drunk important the infrastructure in the capital. the governor of mich alive says missiles have been seen flying, but a defenses are working me. my cave has refuted russians claims its forces, have captured the east and town of solider. moscow wants to take the small salt mining town to help its offensive own nearby back moves. the u. k. has called the execution of a british iranian national into iran,
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callison cowardly ali reza berry was convicted of spying to the u. k. berry previously said that he'd been forced to admit his guilt under torture. and health authorities in china have reported almost 60000 corona virus thing, deaths since early december. it's the 1st data on death by jack by jing has was in released since it loosened its restrictions in early december. ah. i intends fighting around the town of sola dar in eastern ukraine wash and military advances are being claimed and denied. why have both sides battle so fiercely over this area?
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and does it mark a new phase in the war? this is inside story. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm fully back table. ukraine has refuted russian claims. it's captured. the eastern town of solid are whatever the truth fighting has been intense around what is europe's largest salt mine. nearly all of the small towns, $11000.00 inhabitants have left and almost everything above ground is destroyed. so why has this battle been so fierce and does its signal a change in how this war is being fought? we'll be discussing this and more with our guests in just a few minutes, but 1st 2 reports from ukraine and russia. ali hush him in moscow explains his battles connection to a different one with then russia establishment. before that we hear from charles
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stratford, who spent a day with ukrainian special forces in backwards close to solid r ukrainian defensive positions west of the front lines, city of moot russian infantry are slowly advancing into northern and eastern residential areas over the hill. the center of town is almost completely destroyed . the streets virtually deserted. blasts of exploding artillery and rockets is almost constant soldier with the ukrainians. special forces leads us to the bunker. warm dark tunnels, lined with weapons, and ammunition boxes. drones feed, real time video of russian infantry movement only a kilometer and a half away say half a lot of men power source is sent every dance. it looks like a ways. so we cannot stop every time because we have
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a less guys. and unfortunately, the also lost a lot of the guy said this moment men rest before their next mission, often close combat were trenches are only 20 meters apart. commanders insist, we hide their identities and don't film landmarks near by the could give their positions away. i want to protect my hope of a veto. they split into small groups in order to avoid artillery, and they infiltrate to residential areas and tree lines. but they also suffer huge casualties. grandma military intelligence from our western partners is often not distributed too as quickly enough on the front lines where we need it to target command centers, logistics hobbs and weapons depos. the shelling is getting closer here. this mean an intensification of shelling in the last few minutes. the
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soldiers here are telling us that up to 600 russian soldiers are moving into new positions. in the northeast of the city, we climb the stairs of a destroyed residential building. smoke rises from fresh strikes, a few streets away, close to russian hill sections of town. what remains of the lives of people who fled to fighting lies abandoned and destroyed home. russian forces a gradually surrounding bar. mote from solider. around 15 kilometers to the north. to villages in the southeast, strangling what little remains of life here as the ukrainian army prepare new lines of defense. charged for al jazeera of mort. it's a moment. moscow has been waiting for vision of the lustoria. the capture of saddam became possible thanks to the continuous strikes and the positions of the armed
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forces of ukraine by russian air force missiles and artillery. moscow hope solid are will be a stepping stone to another strategic ukrainian city. rosalind, i think that only after the liberation of back what will an offensive operation be prepared to help complete the liberation of denette from ukraine? sada opens the way to russian military units to chrome at oscar. this is the largest city of the da nets people's republic, still held by ukrainian nationalists. what does another battle going on? this one inside the russian establishment, or whether all mercenaries from the wagner grew late in capturing solid. the group was it on a silly run channel, a statement in the form of an answer to question accusing some officials of trying to steal its victory. was facing that the only fight was present in the battle. for solider were wagner, by the ministry of defense, later issued a statement confirming that wagner's role was essential in the battle for solid,
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a passcode to recover. wagner is not registered in russia. we do not have a law on private military companies. therefore, apparently the military is trying not to mention wagner is part of the group that performs the tasks of the special military operation. of course, this is very insulting to the wagner fighters, and the case is also about the jealousy of some generals. ah, and as russia attempts to capture more cities, the echoes of the about to learn more school for the hall to mind of letting me put maybe her the prophecy in ukraine, or the i sure which is 0 more school. ah, well, let's bring in our guess now for today's show from odessa in ukraine, michael bore syracuse, he is a senior fellow at the atlantic council from moscow, sergey markov who's the director of the institute of political studies and a former spokesman for president vladimir protein and from boss patrick bureau,
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a senior defense antiquity lecture at the university of bath and a former british army officer and former nato analysts. thank you gentlemen, for being with us on inside. sorry. welcome, michael, let me start with you in odessa. if i can, the ukrainian government disputes, the claim that the russians are in control of sala dar, how big of a set bank would it be for ukraine if the russians indeed were in control of this sort of tom? right. well, 1st of all, the russians are making as much for the bigger deal than it is the, the status of solar doors still very, very much up in the air. how do we know that from correspondents who are there on the front line and from ukrainian service men who have given comments to foreign media? i think from the russian side solider has much more information or propaganda value than actual strategic value. after a humiliating losses on the bout and filled included, including lutheran, come on, they need some type of when no matter how small to be able to feed to their russian
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public. and especially to those warhawks to those the russian bloggers, her giving actually the prominent top time now the ukranian side, it should be said that, you know, they don't look at this war as the human meat grinder, like the russia. ready do when there are threats to, to their men and women, they do call back at bad. and they made that clear because human life, unlike on the russian side, they say is to be valued. one last thing, if i may on this, is that it is a very, very long frontline intent to move perhaps 50 or a few 100 meters one way the other day by day. so there's a long way to go before anyone can claim having taken over solider. alright, let's ask, fair gay in moscow, why solider is such a big deal for russia? why has so much man power, including mercenaries for gay been brought onto this area? so does that have not important for us?
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joseph, what we should understand. russian government is saying is a truth. keep it super easy and is like, well muscles and florida not important for me to, to the point of your job is not, i'm always in the military point of view. why are they sending so many troops into into solid di, including mercenary from the wagner group? oh, medicine that it from walking to work, i think, and a different regions in dunbar. and then other regions for daughter is very important. politically. for why do you me, is it empty? because i really admitted that a capacity was your brilliant army is great that not by your grades, but by health or where some conscious but wisdom comes who wants to give health to the suspects. so you can nominate that why it's very important political will like me to listen to sure that you're not me still going horror and losing co
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c t after be bought. if, because i fail up, i'll go bay la or provide me in the face or she is a part of that. why didn't you send a dozen sontols? and you can soul just to why it was such small cds. i started out and back and read the law doesn't. so sounds of the korean soldiers to dive for these small teaches which by the ticker means almost military or military point of view miss almost nothing, but with the clear, i'd bet it important for video. ok because it's important because it is becoming important for school and to crash video next spring in patrick barry and bath for your thoughts on this about the significance of solid and back mode. some say solid as figure was saying there is of no significance militarily to russia. it's
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more related to russian domestic politics. what are your thoughts on, on this battle and how is unfolding? yeah, i'd agree with sir. i, i'm not actually michael is saying the same thing to do. the key thing is here, look at the, the noise is coming out of the kremlin and the, the video's being fruit trying to float the internet from the wagner group. there's always to be serious discourse amongst their we know some about the power struggles between ag are awesome all. and the general in charge now of the whole operation. it goes in a seraphic in and, and, and it seems to be that essentially this is a by, they're not fighting a battle in the way that you would over a strategic objective. this is about sending russian troops into a meat grinder to be killed, to meet some sort of political infighting about the conduct of the war and who should be the head honcho on the ground. so that's my reading of it. essentially. i
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think i look once once once and both sides start to take a serious man to casualties. insignificant objectives can become more significant because there's a bloat. and there's a, there's a basically a blog treasure which is being spent and it becomes more significant. but i still think and that this solid are really, doesn't matter and significant, even if you zoom them up out, over bar, moot, it doesn't matter massively. and i don't agree with the idea that this is a big, big issue for zalinski in terms of nato support nato, as we know as a defensive organization. if you grain with start to lose city after city, that nature would actually open up. it says, support. i'd imagine so i don't think really it has an optical or a heavy way on nato allies. and it's also interesting to note that the u. k is just said it's going to send a challenge or 2 times to you grain. so watch this space and a let's, let's allow segue to respond to that. say gay, patrick says, you know, russia is fighting for politics here for political infighting, a rather than
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a strategic care plan when it comes to salad, died and back to what is your response to that? who missed the, call that 6 as a no need this to say, and to fix that enough, because what do you mean to put it to the high and also immediately our power all russia pooly depend on russian capacity, rational society. and actually, because i mean, so rational, domestic politics, it's no, so of course, society one time, very much russian. i mean, to go on until a bit more and more. you can see just not on the done yes can, will gone, but also konica. that's another rational representatives united nation, say very clear with last night about what's your mom's rush? the mom is that she's been no threat to russian security diploma. you could at your job. and also that all russian speaking people should wait to go
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and social rights ins. ukrainian did it today as well. if it's will be by, by, by piece, by new sanctions. russia will be happy to do it. but if that some countries will continue to seize the threat from the can, people to be 2nd kind of the citizens with no right to speak, native language, russia, we'll get to zap roles my boss. alright, let's bring in michael in ukraine to respond to that. we heard there from say gay rushes and games in his you, when it comes to this war and ukraine, ukraine's then gaming this conflict is the restoration of its territory to free 2014 borders. i want to know, michael, whether, you know, the russians are becoming a more formidable force right now for the ukraine on the ground in close quarter. fighting with more, you know, as we've heard, wagner, a group mercenaries involved in the conflict. how difficult is it for ukraine to
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defend dispositions right now? yeah, well 1st of all, what's coming out of his mouth is complete. nonsense. if indeed, the russians cared. one iota about the security, the protection of russian speakers here in ukraine. why are russian speaking cities being bomb, like how to kill, for example, like other cities and just in your grand, i hear from ukraine ins who are russian speakers who come from that region. they can understand the russian mentality on this. but, you know, when we think about it, the russians have put very low value on life. so that's why that's happening. and in terms of the russian fighting strategy you referred to. well, right now, as i said here, ukraine is under a nationwide missile attack right now from the russian side. that's the only way they know how to fight is not icon bad with, with their opponent. but with the long range missed those that are very destructive . so trying to weaponized winter, trying to damage ukrainian infrastructure,
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i think come what we're going to see going forward over the next days and weeks is quite the pivot probably from ukraine inside on the front line. and a big reason for that fully will be because of the it will take some time. but the addition of these tanks like a challenge or to post cold war for generation tank and also the other fighting vehicles per provided by europe. also via the added training, things like that, but one more thing quickly is i think between now and the one year anniversary in the middle of february. russia will try to. ready lunch quite amounts of salt. we know there modality was ok. let's allow them to respond to that. we had heard michael say that the russians have a low value on life. they're using mercenaries made up a former convex, and they don't really care about losing these men on the battlefield. what do you respond to that? it just life? i think what we have now, so immediately
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a defense me to so i was conscious of course we cannot trust, isn't permission during the civil about going into my evolution, my understanding for russian, army and citizens. if you create our people, we want you to put to many time told that we are why the people use some kind of cd water inside rush. and people you may know is that as my case, if russia these people, it's people. why is it bombing cities that are occupied by, by it? no, no, she's lying. she's like russia never. i get to see beauty and i need because i see like a brand that i keep it just a 100 percent. that new. and that's it. propaganda. okay. i was a lot of control, it's patrick. i'll bring you in on an army where the russian bombing concentrated
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and so you know, that's also a reality we're talking about here. so i don't know how we can continue to be with someone with an alternative reality. you know, i, i, you know, to come back to, sorry, guys 1st point is he well knows, just because you're a russian speaker doesn't mean you make you any less ukrainian according to the referendum and all the polling that was conducted. you can be a russian speaker, and i was heavily diminishing as you'd imagine, and also feel pro ukrainian. so of course there's some small segments of the population still do feel russian, but it isn't smaller than i was. and so i don't think that even that argument holds if you're going to say that the russians have a bombard kid and car, if i die like i can't have a debate with someone about that, it's clear to everybody. ok, let me, let me ask you patrick, about recent military shakeup we've seen in russia, and how do you think it's going to change the conflict this military shake up. we've seen within the russian army and as general it awesome. all of the appointment you think held a new face in the conflict is a few ways of looking at
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a gun. again, it's about internal dynamics, wasn't it that he is being put in there because you broke it, you know, you just destroyed are pretty much destroyed. are conventional army with brain plans for taking a massive country. i know you fix it. yeah. or will. so robert king becoming too powerful or the direct line to know for they moved in to get rid of them. i agree with michael. i think we can expect to see, you know, a 100000 st. party trained, recently mobilized russian troops being, you know, pushed into an attack somewhere and we'll have to see hopefully the ukrainians can repel. last but wouldn't be surprised if they have to give ground in places. really . this is about the summer volley. and the times which hopefully comment line, the british announcement is all about pushing the germans germans together finger. they've got, they're the ones with the last 2 times. there's lots of them in europe. the challenge it to different logistics change there in the u. k. it's, it's a gesture, it's important gesture, the gesture you say, patrick,
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what's the end game for the west in arming ukraine with more offensive weapons? we've heard the u. k, announcing the tanks today. france as well. what is the name of the west? so i was just coming onto this, so i think the tanks and the armored energy fighting vehicles are about creating an armored brigade for ukraine that can be used from the summer in character intensive . i'd expect to ukrainian candor offensive this summer is what i'm thinking. who knows how successful there be the rustles about a long time to prepare defensive lines. and there's a few things about modern warfare. we are waiting to find out, such as had a precision guided munitions work against trenches and defences in depth. which is different from what we've seen them so far. so yeah, it remains to be seen, but we definitely got another summer inviting common at least all right. so again, my call in moscow we are nearing the one year and vice versa of this russian invasion. what are russians plans, you know,
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for solid are and beyond after it's consolidated it's control of this area. a rough and she'll just say what she doesn't need to a chair. you may know from geography that trash is, is the biggest conference was intending to, to kill. i mean, just what russia and read you feel so call to a bit 8 people in your grade was also ukrainian. we took a lead. this would believe that you create and then the rest would be transcript. and in one that cannot make unions to be liberated from ukraine, it's reason as to be a law please political campaigning for getting political section and majority, you get empowerment. it means that you can still be democratized, and you should be new. it's what russian army is fighting carports. that's why it's very much for me to, to the point of view. i agree with my colleagues that was on i just
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expect that there are some, i mean well i attempt to go forward ins and those are we in tests and ukrainian army, but appearing to by western muslims to be ready for that. i think it gives me in the middle of supreme and now it's a matter of it is ation the ukrainian in euclid and it and also sending a lot of offense. we've been that it was a you could any and i'm in so ok, we're realty, as a result would be that we will win because for from our side is true. okay. michael in ukraine. this been a substances change in the type of weaponry the us and its allies are providing ukraine. how will this been? how do you see the conflict evolving in the next few months as we near the one year anniversary of the russian invasion?
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sure. i'll answer that, but just quickly to point it may be radically a big country in the world. but why is it that they have to possibly to port hundreds of thousands of ukrainian children and women and men to rush shops? why is it that they have to set lines of russian troops behind those complex fighting for wagner group and others to shoot them? if they start running back from the cranium front lines that, that would be a good question for him to answer. but i think in terms of what we're going to see going forward is there's a very big difference now in terms of western support for ukraine's up or i think the, the leaders in the western capitals, i've grown the spine to send these main battlefield tanks and very heavy duty fighting vehicles, but also there's a realization told me that this is no longer a war limited to ukraine. russian missiles have violated model, been aerospace, not far from here. by the way, many times our missile fragments have fallen into poland plus the not kind of fact
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of the migration of the. ready weapon is ation of food weapons ation of energy. so to kind of my main point here is that there is a realization in these western capital is that if mister putin and his forces are not pushed back now for good, that russia will tempt grabs on ukraine again and surrounding territory and attacked other nato countries as well, so they should have done it earlier. there were a lot of warnings, but finally, i think the title has turned, and i don't think, given the rotten the d product and corruption on the russian side, they're having to mobilize combat, excel homeless people, that they have much chance against what. ready we're awaiting. ready right now. ok gentlemen, we will need it. they are unfortunately, we are running out of time. thank you so very much for a very interesting discussion. michael berser i q 2nd my. com and patrick barry, thank you very much for joining us and thank you to for watching. you can always watch this program again any time by visiting our website at al jazeera dot com for
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further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward, ash ha, inside story. and of course you can join the conversation on twitter. a handle is at a j inside story from me fully back to boy and a whole team here in doha. thanks for watching. bye for now. ah. in 2021. the turkish security services arrested 15 suspected 5, allegedly recruited by israeli intelligence the most sod to report on arab palestinian and islamic figures into my sometimes they recruit you and you don't
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