tv HAR Dtalk BBC News August 22, 2018 2:30am-3:01am BST
donald trump is facing a huge test of his presidency after his former lawyer admitted breaking election finance rules. michael cohen says he did so at the direction of the candidate presumed to be mr trump. the 51—year—old admits paying hush money to two women who claim to have had sex with the president. and in a separate court case in virginia, unrelated to the election campaign — the jury found president trump's former campaign manager, paul manafort, guilty of eight charges he faced relating to tax and bank fraud. the uk brexit secretary dominic raab has told the bbc that in the event of a no deal on brexit, he will move swiftly to secure the rights of european union citizens in great britain. mr raab said there was absolutely ‘no question of eu citizens being tu rfed out.‘ now on bbc news, hardtalk‘s shaun ley talks to nury turkel of the uyghur human rights project. hello, and welcome to hardtalk, i am
shaun ley. a labour party's words, follow the pa rty‘s shaun ley. a labour party's words, follow the party's lead. the world is -- follow the party's lead. the world is —— the worst on an internment camp in china. there are lots of those in xinjiang, one of the most wealthy provinces in china. there are reports of over a million people in detention. the government says the camps need to re— educate people. they say thou fighting islamic terror the region. nury turkel is chairman of the uyghur human rights project. is he being duped or as china duping the rest of the world? nury turkel, welcome to hardtalk.
can you describe for me the experience of being a weegar in xinjiang province these days? -- uighur. imagine you go to church on sunday and you have to go through body scans and imagine that you get up body scans and imagine that you get up and one morning, the government wa nts you up and one morning, the government wants you to marry off your daughter to someone, part of the oppressed ethnic group. imagine that you don't have anyone to confide it, even in your private life and imagine you are forced to denounce your religion and walk away from your centuries old tradition, such as the uighurs.
what is happening in the uighurs homeland of east turkestan is cultural revolution on steroids. the chinese government has been so brutal, particularly in the last 16, 18 months, locked up more than 10% of the population according to various reports. we are talking about a population of 10 million people so you are talking about 10%, 1 million uighurs in detention. the numbers could be higher. a human rights organisation published a report recently estimating 3.3 million people affected. the chinese government has been carrying out this internment camp, so—called re—education programme in three ways. one, they lock you up and impose a heavy sentence of 10— 15 yea rs. impose a heavy sentence of 10— 15 years. you basically go ofjail time. the second group of people who have been subjected to this is daily
re—education. you go there and come home at night. and the third one is the ones who are kept in high walls and barbed wire. they go to a daily routine pronouncing their religious background, starting the boards of xi. that is the president, xie jin ping? exactly. and watching anti- separatist video. singing chinese communist songs, stuff like that? you haven't lived in china for more than 20 years now. how can you know this apart from through second and third hand accounts?” this apart from through second and third hand accounts? i follow the news and i talk to people who are able to leave the country in recent yea rs. able to leave the country in recent years. i have done some asylum were and have spoken to some new generation uighurs in the united states. this is what people tell you
as they get out? there is a description from a radio journalist who talks about what it means for her. she works for the us funded radio free asia and says more than two d oze n radio free asia and says more than two dozen other relatives are missing, her brother was detained and her parents both elderly and suffering, went missing. her aunt, cousins, children and more than 20 people swept up by the authorities. i found out later they had all been detained on the same day. i found out later they had all been detained on the same daylj i found out later they had all been detained on the same day. i happen to know this family from my childhood years. this particular reporter's barba is my father's friend. i saw him in real time as a child. he trained as an anthropologist. very well revered and respected. what the chinese government has a problem with people like him is the fact that they are promoting in a way to intellectual methods to make the uighurs deal
pride, proud of their ethnic cultural heritage. you were born yourself in a labour camp at the beginning of the 19705. you were in a labour had a show labour camp because your parents were persecuted during the cultural revolution. is xinjiang going through something similar xinjiang going through something 5imilaragain? xinjiang going through something similar again? it is inconceivable that we talk about this in 2018. history is taking a very strange term and repeating itself. i was born at the height of the cultural revolution in a similar re—education camp. my mother was taken in when 5he camp. my mother was taken in when she was six months pregnant with me and we were released about 45 months after she gave birth to me. dream that period, we both suffered a very difficult time, health issues, daily humiliation, phy5ical difficult time, health issues, daily humiliation, physical and verbal abuses and it's just mind—boggling and hard to believe we are talking
about similar situations taking place 47 yea r5 about similar situations taking place 47 years later. what does this mean to you personally? you haven't lived in china since 1995 but have family there. like my fellow uighurs, i have been going through a very difficult time. simply because the chinese government effectively exported its oppression to uighur5 who are living as a free person like myself, as a citizen of the civilised world. you try to have a normal life but you can't, thinking that your family members are suffering and you are physically and financially capable and yet you can't be at their bedside of our suffering health issue. what some of the uighurs are missing is funerals. my the uighurs are missing is funerals. my family situation, my mother has seven grandchildren. she was able to hold only two of them. you can't
really talk about your current situation. that must even in itself be quite difficult. it is difficult in two ways. one, the chinese government has created a fear of appraisal in uighur citizens of the western world's mind because of the fear, not many uighurs would be willing to come and tell their family stories because you never know, oppressed people and very repressive governments, you never know what they will do to your family and doing the things like i have been doing is a conscionable thing to do. i'm feeling proud to be a voice for the voiceless, millions of voice was uighur people back home. he told us is one of the exa m ples home. he told us is one of the examples is what you see as the kind of repression of uighurs in china, that they are being told to study
the thought of xi jinping, and one uighurwas the thought of xi jinping, and one uighur was quoted by the wall street journal saying, we should give thanks not to allah but xi jinping. that's not unusual. all around china, people are told to study the thoughts of the president. the president is almost deified now. how does that count as oppression? this talk about what the chinese government's motives are. can you a nswer government's motives are. can you answer that question? the chinese government is using east turkestan, uighur lives as a laboratory for total surveillance, brutal repression and if we are not careful, and i'm saying this to the chinese citizens in other parts of china. similar methods in tibet. and the new sheriff in town who is running the show. that's your
explanation that won the last 18 months, things have become that much harder. he has brought the techniques he developed in tibet to his newjob in your province. the chinese government as pilot programmes. they start enforcing it in other. tibet and east turkestan has been a kind of playground for the pilot programme. you use the phrase east turkestan and i'm talking about xinjiang. there is a basic difference here for you and some other uighurs, you don't really accept that this chinese province as pa rt accept that this chinese province as part of china. he wanted to be part ofa part of china. he wanted to be part of a separate uighur state in east tu rkesta n. of a separate uighur state in east turkestan. east kirk east turkestan is an historic name for the uighurs it has tremendous significance. the uighurs have to republics, the first
in 1933 uighurs have to republics, the first in1933 and in uighurs have to republics, the first in 1933 and in 1944. but they didn't last very long, about a year for the first in the most five years for the second. a very short period in a long history. but because of that proud history that uighurs cherish, they like call their homeland as east tu rkesta n they like call their homeland as east turkestan but xinjiang can be translated as "new dominion", and "new frontier", and that has been imposed by communist china and they resent that name. that is what china says, a lot of this is about problems that have been caused on the ground by uighurs and they give examples. they say there is nothing arbitrary about the camps. the rather vocational training centres. there is no such thing as re—education centres in xinjiang and they say the relocation, 461,000 people at the beginning of the first three months of this year, to quote the global times newspaper, is to improve social stability and alleviate poverty. those are good
ambitions. that is a bogus best and here is why. the chinese government has stated goal. xijinping is the 1—man show in the country. he does not want to be blamed for anything but results and political disaster because it will have a domino effect in his leadership role. and there is some racism in this. the chinese government believes that uighurs at no national identity, they will present a political threat in the future so they want to take a preventive measure to forcibly assimilate the uighurs. that's not what the chinese say. china's foreign ministry says that anyone of all ethnicities in xinjiang live and work in peace. but they have to say because they have to find a way to justify the brutality when they implement it. how would they be to justify locking up more than 10% of the population? we know that the
re—education of what? the re—education of what? the re—education of what? the re—education of someone transferring from one ethnic group to atheist or non— religious believer? what are they trying to do? this term itself is problematic. it is propaganda. the chinese government can say anything but making that kind of statement three times does not make it true. this talk about another reason that the chinese give for the actions they take. they warn about being deceived by a religious extremism. resettlement and be education, that is how the chinese delegation to the un in geneva puts it and when you say again this incredible figure, and nobody would argue with that, the incredible figure of 20 fun —— 21% of all rests on china being in xinjiang which is only 1.5% of the whole population, but they then point to the violence and the violence there has been considerable. i will give you some examples. it will be interesting to
view your response. a knife attack in oraltrain view your response. a knife attack in oral train station. 31 killed and more injured when two cars crashed through and will raunchy market. explosives were tossed into the ground. 96 dead. it did die in blasts outside police stations and markets. all those attacks in one year alone. there is violence in that province and it's not coming from the government. that does not give the chinese government justification to lock up poets, university professors and musicians. i university professors and musicians. , athletes, in concentration camps. we are worried some of these people might turn to violence. we should learn the lesson from history. they
have been effectively playing into people's emotions in the west. the uk, european countries, the united states. i do want to deal with that because it is important but let me just deal with the emotions of people who live in that region and fear violent. you would not dispute that, would you ? fear violent. you would not dispute that, would you? you are a human rights advocate yourself, keeping people safe, leading them feel that they are not in danger when they walk at their front door is actually a fundamental responsibility. that isa a fundamental responsibility. that is a theory, that is what they say that they are doing. -- letting them. you don't believe?” that they are doing. -- letting them. you don't believe? i don't believe because they are trying to create a surveillance state, they are trying to forcibly assimilate
the uighurs. if anyone stands in the way, they will end up in concentration camps. last year, they introduced a bit extreme revocation procedure, the growing of a beard and adhering to a halal dyers and naming children with religious names, that sort of thing has been, so the chinese government has been paving the way for today's nightmare for some time. —— paving the way for today's nightmare forsome time. —— halal diet. paving the way for today's nightmare for some time. -- halal diet. let me repeat that point, and that is that the chinese government believes there are groups who claim to be uighurcampaigners there are groups who claim to be uighur campaigners who are prepared to use violence, there was an attack in beijing in which several dozen people were injured. it was claimed by the east turkestan islamic party, that was formed by uighurs who had fled china for turkmenistan and
pakistan. the threat the party poses cannot be ignored. the chinese government can say the same thing 15 times. that is not the chinese government, that is american a nalyst. government, that is american analyst. the source of this information is the chinese government because tip or etim, all of it was enlisted on the terrorist list at the behest of the chinese government. they said that the east tu rkesta n government. they said that the east turkestan islamic movement, which uses the name etim as you know, all of these groups are overlapping, is the most militant of the uighur separatist groups. that is years ago. so they have reformed? china is
one of the countries —— one of the countries that has most effectively utilised 9/11 to their benefit is the chinese government, perhaps the most effectively utilised as the chinese government. 15 years later, the british government listed both organisations, or if it is one organisation, as a terrorist organisation. they were quoted by reuters as saying that they were trying to create an independent caliphate. that kind of rhetoric has been around without a kind of evidence. so you think the west is being duped? duped, yes, it is a political tactic. because of the chinese government's diverse approach to creating a hysteria, some of the good people in the national security intelligence community in the uk in the united states and elsewhere have tapped into the chinese rhetoric, believing
that china and the west are fighting a similar type of fight against terrorism, which defeats the logic. the trouble is, i mean whether you accept that some uighurs index i'll keepin accept that some uighurs index i'll keep in some very unpleasant company, they are forging strategic alliances with leading jihadist affiliations affiliated with al qaeda and taliban, there was a report only this week amid august 2018 that the chinese special envoy to series worried about uighurs having gone to fight there. even if you say that all that is propaganda, the people living in china, they will believe what the global times, the state owned tabloid says, that they have salvaged it and it has avoided the fate of becoming china's syria or china's libya ? avoided the fate of becoming china's syria or china's libya? as you know, that there are sizeable western individuals whojoined that there are sizeable western individuals who joined the forces in syria, but none of the western
government had been setting up internment camps for anyone who might be having tendency is to take up might be having tendency is to take up arms against the western interest. do you know what china means by and abnormally long beard? that is, i have seen religious figures in christian and jewish communities, especially in new york, when you walk around some parts of new york you will see jewish individuals with a long beard. that sort of beard is considered a sign of extremism in china. so these are among the measures that have been, particularly in the last year and a half or so, introduced? the growing beards style. but it is aimed in your view at visible identification of somebody as a uighur? yes, because that would make it look different to the chinese. another one is preventing people who cover
their bodies and they all their faces from entering public places like airports. that is happening too, is that? you look at your leisure, they have a high ridge knows, fair skinned, it can easily can be identified by anyone in china. that actually makes them more vulnerable in society for racial discrimination. last october, president xijinping discrimination. last october, president xi jinping told the party conference that it must uphold the principle that religions in china must be chinese and orientation and provide active guidance so that they can adapt themselves to socialist society. the truth is it is notjust muslims who experience that in china, it is christians, it is other religious denominations. they are not singling out the uighurs. that is the exact point that i want the audience to know, there is a clear and present danger that this brutal policy will be extended. they are testing the ground on the uighurs's
homeland, and their lives had been a testing ground for future policies, oppressive policies that will not only stay in china, will be exported to china related countries around the world. president trump seized xi jinping as an ally, he has gone so far as the call him a friend. angela merkel, the german chancellor, has gone to china on a number of occasions in recent years, no occasions in recent years, no occasion has she raised the plight of the uighur. the trump administration have already acted, vice president mike pence raised the deteriorating uighur right situation ina deteriorating uighur right situation in a speech and the un ambassador kelley currie has regularly been raising it. she raised the worsening uighur human rights situation. we
know that president trump told fox news last year some people might call xi jinping news last year some people might call xijinping the king of china, he isa call xijinping the king of china, he is a very powerful man, i happen to think he is a very good person. we have two separate what president trump says about the leader of china. the united states has a panel of experts in the united states government to work on china, so i do not know where president trump's mind is heading to when it comes to china and xijinping, but i do believe he has a good team of experts in the government to understand the issue. one last question, it is that of the internment camps that people go in, they do not come out, i am afraid of they do not come out, i am afraid of the worst now. what are you afraid of? i am afraid of mass murder because we do not know, other than if you key individuals who managed to leave the camps, people are not living. —— leaving. we have those1
million people gone? what are they being charged with? it is basically no right sign, as the un official pointed out. you have no access to a lawyer, you have no access to a judicial process, and there is no access to family members, there is no a ccess access to family members, there is no access to proper medical care, thatis no access to proper medical care, that is why we have seen people living as a dead person from the camps. soi living as a dead person from the camps. so i am worried and also bears, an important part of my worry is that the chinese government has been building a crematorium. -- leaving. and they are hiring people to work on those facilities. why are they building all of a sudden such facilities? traditionally, american academics, if i may finish, have been very careful in their criticism of the chinese government. recently, one of the well—respected american
academic said publicly twice that he worried there will be a mass murder in those camps. and you worry too. munich hotel of the uyghur human rights project in washington, dc, thank you for being with us on hardtalk. thank you very much. thank you. —— nury turkel. hello. well, in the last few days it's been pretty warm across the uk, with temperatures in the high 205 across the south. we've got another fine day on the way on wednesday across central and southern areas of the uk. we'll probably see scenes like this from tuesday, lovely weather there around the docklands in london. but there is change on the way. this weather front will cool things off over the next few days, but initially, the cooler air will be reaching scotland and northern ireland.
but ahead of it, we still have warm air coming in all the way from the azores, from the subtropics here, so that's why it's so warm outside. in fact, temperatures overnight around the mid—teens across much of the country. now, the weather front will be moving across the uk through the early hours of wednesday morning. it's already been wet across scotland, parts of northern ireland too have seen quite a bit of rain, and that's just about moving into south—western scotland now. but to the south of that, it's dry. where the skies clear, there might be a little bit of a chill in the air, 13 degrees for norwich. but generally, where we have the cloud, it's around 15, 16,17 degrees. so this is very warm and humid air over us first thing in the morning. here is the weather front. this is a cold front, or a cool front, you could call in the summer. behind it, the cooler air comes in, much fresher air, so scotland and northern ireland in the afternoon will be quite a bit cooler.
you can see those yellow colours here indicating those lower temperatures from the north atlantic, mostly around the teens — 17 in belfast, only 14 in stornoway, but to the south, we've got temperatures in the high teens. and then this central bit here, around northern england and wales, that's where the weather front is moving through, so the chance of catching, i think, some rain during the course of wednesday. now, wednesday into thursday, these weather fronts, in fact a succession of them, start moving through the uk. and then, behind it, and the forecast has been the same for the last few days, we have this much fresher air coming off the north atlantic, almost from iceland, so that cooler air starts invading the uk on thursday. 0ne weather front moves through the south—east earlier in the day, so possibly some rain. again, more weatherfronts or showers moving into scotland and northern ireland, and also a bit of a breeze. these are winds in miles per hour. you can double these, so winds gusting perhaps to 30 mph there off western scotland, but cool already on thursday. you can see temperatures in the low 205 in the south, in the mid—teens for belfast, glasgow and for edinburgh. how about the next few days? well, it looks like the temperatures might pick up a little bit,
but not an awful lot, and cardiff may be up to 19 by monday, possibly 21 in london by monday, but it will be quite changeable. bye— bye. welcome to bbc news — broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. our top stories: president trump's former personal lawyer, michael cohen, pleads guilty to breaking campaign finance rules. in court, under oath, he says he committed the crimes at the direction of "the candidate" . and another dark cloud for the president — his former campaign manager, paul manafort, is found guilty of tax and bank fraud, over his work for foreign governments. aung san suu kyi defends her government's handling of the rohingya crisis — and blames bangladesh forfailing to send back refugees. 18 windrush migrants who may have been wrongfully removed from the uk are to receive an official government apology.
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