tv HAR Dtalk BBC News September 11, 2018 4:30am-5:01am BST
and officials are looking into scheduling one. an official said the request was made in a very warm, very positive letter from the north korean leader to mr trump. the us states of north and south carolina, as well as virginia, have declared states of emergency ahead of the arrival of hurricane florence. the governor of south carolina has ordered the evacuation of about a million people from coastal areas. it's strengthened to a category 4 storm. the eu's chief brexit negotiator, michel barnier, has said that if both sides are realistic then they could agree the first stage of the divorce deal with britain within six to eight weeks. he said the main risk was failure to work out how to solve the irish border question. now on bbc news, hardtalk with stephen sackur. weclome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur.
today my guest and the ambrosetti forum in northern italy is spain's foreign minister, josep burrell. spain has been through a tumultuous year, dominated by the political stand—off in catalonia and a series of political scandals which have left the socialist party in power. josep burrell is a catalan, but he's adamantly opposed to catalan independence. so does he bring any fresh solutions to spain's intractable problems? josep burrell, welcome to hardtalk.
thank you. you are part of a new spanish government that's been in power for three months spanish government that's been in powerfor three months or spanish government that's been in power for three months or so. 100 days. yes. you have been wrestling with the problem that has dogged spain for so long now, that is the problem of catalonia. and, in the time you've had, you have signally failed to change the dynamic, to change the crisis, why is that? the crisis is a structural one and it's going to last. it has been in a cocoon for many, many times. without the central government doing nothing about it, just waiting and seeing, sitting and waiting. now we've found a situation where an important part of the catalan population has already disconnected psychologically about the idea of spain. but they
are not a majority. i am very sad when people say catalonia is split into parts. but i come back to the point about how to change the dynamic. i would point about how to change the dynamic. iwould put point about how to change the dynamic. i would put it to you that when prime minister pedro sanchez appointed you to a very senior position in the government, that was a signal to catalans that he was not interested in reaching out in a new way, because you are seen in catalonia, and of course you are catalan, you are seen in catalonia asa catalan, you are seen in catalonia as a man who has been adamantly opposed to all of the claims of the independence movement. well, i wouldn't say that. i hope that the prime minister appointed me as ministerfor that the prime minister appointed me as minister for foreign affairs for something more than that! may be for my european experience, and because i've been president of the european parliament. i have quite a bigger
record than just opposing catalonian independency. you're right, but of course catalans independency. you're right, but of course catala ns read independency. you're right, but of course catalans read the detail, and you are a man, who, for example, has dismissed the currently don't of the cata la n dismissed the currently don't of the catalan regional government, kim torah, asa catalan regional government, kim torah, as a man worse than marine le pen. that was your phrase for him. no, pen. that was your phrase for him. n o, exa ctly pen. that was your phrase for him. no, exactly my phrase was mr torah could not be bought off and electoral list of marine le pen, because marine le pen took out, threw out of the electoral list to people for saying much less than him. so your message to those who support catalan independence is they are in essence part of an unacceptable antidemocratic far right political movement, and they regard that as libellous, wrong and a complete misreading of what the cata la ns a complete misreading of what the catala ns want.
a complete misreading of what the catalans want. i never said that. the catalan independency is half of the population, 2 million people, and in2 the population, 2 million people, and in 2 million people to find every kind of people. you find people who are the way you are describing. let's talk about the thing that i've said, not about the things they say i've said. for example, isaid things they say i've said. for example, i said once that catalan society is wounded. big wounds. we have to heal them. but before healing them, we have to disinfect the wounds. the explanation of these people have been said that i said we have to disinfect catalonia, which is not exactly the same thing. this is not exactly the same thing. this isa is not exactly the same thing. this is a fascinating discussion because at the back of my mind i have to keep telling myself, don't forget the foreign minister is himself 100% catalan. so let me ask you just a
very basic question, do you regard catalonia as a region or a nation?‘ nation. a nation, quite clear? yeah. you also recognise, as spain did in aun you also recognise, as spain did in a un covenant from 1976, which spain signed, you recognise the right of people to have self—determination. so if you recognise that right, and you recognise that catalonia is indeed a nation, then i'm struggling to understand how you cannot allow the catalonian people, an authorised referendum on their right to self—determination. referendum on their right to self-determination. let's once again use the right words. it's not determination, it is secession. first, the spanish constitution doesn't allow for it. it is a sentence of the constitutional court saying clearly you can ask about
secession, you can ask about secession, you can ask about secession, but every question you wa nt to secession, but every question you want to put about it has to be done on the framework of a constitutional change. second, there's nothing in the international law that gives catalonia the right to secession, in spite of what torra saying every day is completely false. maybe in other parts of the world, secession is recognised. in international law, there is no basis at all for that. there are some lawyers who disagree with your take on that. of course. but ina with your take on that. of course. but in a way, this is about politics as much as it is about a final reading of the law... what do you think it says. a final reading of the law is not unimportant. think it says. a final reading of the law is not unimportantlj think it says. a final reading of the law is not unimportant. i agree, but politics is important to two. what do you think it says about
spain that today you have in spanish prison nine activists, catalan politicians who it seems are going to face trial on charges of sedition and rebellion in october. what is that saying about spain to the international community? because frankly it looks like political show trials. i personally would prefer these people to be conditionally free. i think there are other ways of taking care they don't fly. getting back to the basic christian... that's my personal opinion. your government and the responsibility to tackle the catalan crisis, why doesn't. .. responsibility to tackle the catalan crisis, why doesn't... why doesn't the government tell these people there pardoned and they're going to be released and now, and then start to talk to them? have you heard about division of powers? in spain, there is a division of powers. it is
a judge who has taken this decision, the parliament had nothing to do with it. so you're going to see those trials go ahead, you're going to see carles puigdemont, for example, stay in brussels, germany, wherever he chooses to be, with york government seeking bash with your government seeking bash with your government seeking bash with your government seeking extradition —— with your government seeking extradition, and you're going to be within your stage to get a vote on its own future. -- state. once again, catalonian is our split into two parts, don't think of catalonia asa two parts, don't think of catalonia as a homogenous thing, you know? catalonia wants. on talking of the name of catalonia. 47% of the people voted for independency. —— i'm talking of. minister, give them the
authorised vote, which madrid will sanction, and then let's see. and if you're right, then of course the secession will not happen. do you think ina secession will not happen. do you think in a country like spain we have to obey the sentences of the constitutional court? do you think we have to be the sentences of the constitutional court in a country who ranks among the 20 fold chris evesin who ranks among the 20 fold chris eves in the world? yes? but in this case, we can do it, but in the framework of a constitutional change -- 20 framework of a constitutional change —— 20 top democracies. framework of a constitutional change -- 20 top democracies. you said in the financial times the secessionists have successfully revived the black legend, as you called it, tying spain to the repression of franco, even the spanish inquisition back in history. you said we are losing the information war. in this sort of conversation today, do you think you
are winning the information war? i'm not fighting against you. the point is, you're trying to win in the court of public opinion in catalonia, your own country and the wider world. that's why i'm here. do you have a winning message do you think? we have to start changing the trend. look at the press, we analyse the press every day, and we analyse what the government says. it's clear that when people listen to mr torra saying the catalan people is being suffering the same kind of situation as the kurds in turkey, or like the moroccans in greece, and we want to become the new kosovo, people start thinking that i'm not really serious. i guess the analogy that people would draw, the comparison, would be scotland. the british government gave the scots the right to vote on their own future, in the end the scots voted to stay in part
of the union. scotland is the comparison. not the right. today the scottish people are asking for a new referendum and mrs may is saying no. if they had to write, they should be asking permission —— the right. let's talk about other key challenges facing your nation today, no doubt one of them is migration. it's a problem for many different countries around europe, but particularly pressing in spain, where you seen the number of immigrants arriving this year spiral toi immigrants arriving this year spiral to i think it stands now at something like 27,000, far higher than last year. to be exact, 34,000. 34,000 than last year. to be exact, 34,000. 311,000 now. than last year. to be exact, 34,000. 34,000 now. it's not so much. not so much? it represents a rise of well over 100% on the same time last year. the rate of change depends on the initial position of the variable. if we are at zero and it goes to one, it's a big increase. but in absolute terms, it has been a
peak in the summer. every summer is a peak. that seems to be more or less going back to a stationary situation. it's interesting what your government has decided to do, premier sanchez has essentially tried to differentiate himself from what we here in italy, for example, where we sit today, whether government has refused to take any more migrant boats that have been full of people trying to escape from north africa. italy won't take them, spain has taken two or three of those boats in a humanitarian gesture. pedro sanchez refuses to play the populist game. do you think politically, in spain, that's going to cause him and you are a problem? maybe. we will see. pedro sanchez represents today a strong pro european stance, and a strong anti—
populism stance. we can make mistakes, but our idea is clear. about immigration, about catalonia, about europe, about everything. we are not looking for approvals, we are not looking for approvals, we are trying to present things in a rational way. going back to colonials, let me give you another example. about migration, what pedro sanchez has done is to produce a kind of electrical shock. the europeans were kind of looking on the other side and not helping italy. i understand italian is. they have been left alone for years in front of a migration that could not manage themselves bash italians. pedro sanchez came along and said we have to face the problem altogether and that's happening —— italians. the problem is your migrant detention centres are full. your facilities now are being
overwhelmed. the popular party, led by pablo casado, is now saying that your policies risk making spain a magnet, a pull factor for your policies risk making spain a magnet, a pull factorfor more and more immigrants. he said there are 1 million people in north africa who are now looking to come to spain. you could be overwhelmed, you could suffer the consequences that angular merkel suffered in 2015 in germany when she said we must keep our borders open —— angela merkel. when she said we must keep our borders open -- angela merkel. and they got 1.5 million people, don't exaggerate. we're talking about 35,000 on one side, 1.5 million on the other. i think things are different. a magnet, did you say a magnet? the whole of europe is a magnet? the whole of europe is a magnet for african youth. go to senegal, look at the tv, that is the magnet. they don't need anything more than that. when your rival, mr
quesada says this, he says it's fundamentally not for spain to absorb these people looking for a better life in europe. we have to say no even if it is not politically correct to do so. what is your response? we make a clear distinction between asylu m we make a clear distinction between asylum seekers and migrants who don't have the right to a silent. we have to make a clear and quick distinction among them and we have to send back to people who don't deserve asylum. people have to understand that with our demographic, we need migrants, but we need migrants in a regular and organised way. i wonder whether you listen to the voices, i picked this up listen to the voices, i picked this up from the spanish press the other day, one typical voice from the south of your country, from a place close to a detention centre, it is a 34—year—old hilda, a construction worker said this," we in the spain risk becoming the fool is of europe welcoming whoever wants to,. we
cannot afford these policies. —— to come. once again, these figures, the reality is, the fact, and not in a way this man has described. you know better than me that in europe today and other parts of the world, data and other parts of the world, data and fax are not necessarily as important to politics as emotions, to the way people feel. i am telling you about how evidence is changing of people ‘s feelings in spain. you about how evidence is changing of people '5 feelings in spainlj can tell the feeling of people, putting migrants in the gymnasium, they are offering hospitality, i can tell you about how many spaniards feel solidarity. in spain there is no marine le pen, not this new prime minister in austria, no wilders.
really? spain is fundamentally different? where is the spanish marine le pen, spanish wilders? we are not. it is interesting that a spain hasa are not. it is interesting that a spain has a socialist government, one could argue it is partly by accident because of a political scandal which did fool the popular party and prime minister, but nonetheless, you are in power now as the socialist party, and you only have 80 something seats in parliament of 300 you are in power. do you think that you can reverse the trend we see in much of europe where traditional, social democratic thomas centreleft parties, are doing disastrously badly? how do you change that dynamic? we have to punch above our weight. once upon a time spain was... that is when the
socialist party was power. it and played an important role in europe. powerful and playing an important pa rt powerful and playing an important part in europe. with the greatest respect, that was in the 80s and 90s, here we are in 2018, yes you are in power at a minority government with an uncertain future, my question to you is that you change the trajectory for ce ntre—left change the trajectory for centre—left social democratic politics? as in most of europe, these parties, like yours, are in disastrous shape. i wouldn't say disaster, but bad. look, social democracy was a 40% party, 40% of the vote everywhere, everywhere. and now we are a party at 20% of the vote everywhere. for sure, this is not going to change overnight. but in spain, it represents the renewals of democracy. it is an opportunity.
this is a comment for a consultant for the spd in germany he says social democratic parties in europe have forgotten how to mobilise. we see the far right mobilising, we even see the out and out left represented by people likejeremy corbyn in the uk, mobilising. what we don't see is traditional, old school parties like yours really mobilising, particularly young people. i agree with that diagnosis. i think social democracy has become an establishment party, you are pa rt an establishment party, you are part of the elite, part of the status quo. look at you, will with all due respect, your long and distinguished career, one of the most seniorfigures in distinguished career, one of the most senior figures in the european parliament, your government service goes back to phillip consolers, you are part of spain ‘s elite. —— gonzalez. what is bad about that. we
are in an error of anti— elite politics. this is a bad trend on the politics. this is a bad trend on the politics in europe. that is a classic elitist thing to say! that is how people feel, they are sick of the status quo and people like you. i understand very well, i am a cosmopolitan nomad, i am travelling here and there, i am part of an elite. and a understand very well that people who have been damaged by the consequences of globalisation that feel protected by social democracy. we have cut all links with popular classes of. that can be mended, that can be mended. and i think the government, with a lot of new young people, not all people like me with baby too much experience. we have two reconstruct ourlink experience. we have two reconstruct our link with popular classes and our link with popular classes and our capacity of mobilisation. your
diagnosis is very good. before we end, i must touch upon another challenge facing notjust end, i must touch upon another challenge facing not just aimed end, i must touch upon another challenge facing notjust aimed but the entire eu, that is brexit. we in britain may be somewhat obsessed and preoccupied with it, but it does matter to europe too. ijust spoke you in italy to potato albini, perhaps the most powerful politician in the europe today. he said he believes that he believes the eu is trying to swindle, to cheat returned from its own self—determination, its own will expressed in a referendum. he says france and germany are not being sufficiently helpful and he would like to see more concessions made to britain to find a good deal to allow britain to lead with a deal that it can work with. —— matteo maldini. we'd use it on that? —— where do you sit on that? this element is working to reach an
agreement. he believed no agreement is the worst solution and we are putting on the table constructive proposals. i don't know which are the proposals. in essence, i suppose it gets down to this. emmanuel macron in france insists there will be no cherry picking, theresa may says what parts of the single market, we want free trade in goods, but we will not accept the free movement of people. are you prepared to do movement of people. are you prepared todoa movement of people. are you prepared to do a deal on that? no. no. clearly no. i don't think any country in europe can accept to split the freedoms, which faces the european unions. these freedoms, i ta ke european unions. these freedoms, i take this because i like it, this one i don't like it, i don't take it. no, it will not be like this. what i use get off? why i use are worried that giving britain a bespoke eal, if i can put it that
way, be so detrimental, so damaging to the eu? —— deal. way, be so detrimental, so damaging to the eu? -- deal. it is a matter of principle. the eu is not the supermarket. but is it so fragile, so weak, that if britain gets a bespoke deal, it could lead to the colla pse bespoke deal, it could lead to the collapse of the entire union?|j don't think so. what is the problem? again isa don't think so. what is the problem? again is a powerful neighbour, the most important trading partner. and i regret that deeply. i think, from my point of view it is a big mistake and it is up to them to decide. we have to understand that this is not a supermarket, i take this, no. you are part of it or you are not part of it. you are not part of it, we will have the best possible relations. believe me, the spanish
government is working very hard to reach an agreement because if not, we will suffer. spain. josep borrell, we have to end it there. but a thank you very much for being on hardtalk. it is a pleasure. i thank you and all —— i thank you for all your questions. foreign minister, thank you indeed. hello there. full uk weather forecast coming up injust a moment, but first of all, i thought we'd cast an eye with what's going on on the other side of the atlantic. you might have heard, we have a major hurricane on our hands. this is hurricane florence, which is a very powerful category 4 hurricane, with sustained winds of 140mph. but it's forecast to strengthen, up to 155mph with 190mph gusts, and that is heading to the east coast of the united states. landfall probably thursday night around north carolina.
it's going to cause big, big problems. just to the north of florence, we've got an area of cloud that extends of miles across the atlantic, right over to the united kingdom. yes, it's a massive weather front, or a couple really. it's going to be pushing southwards, bringing some heavy rain. the rain always heaviest across the hills and coasts of north—west england and wales. to the east of higher ground, it's one of those fronts where the rain's probably not going to amount to too much. but nevertheless there will be some damp weather getting into the east of the pennines, for example. given it stays quite windy overnight, temperatures will stay up into double figures. and this massive long weather front marks the dividing line between some coolish air that we've got flowing into northern areas, and air that's come in more from the mid—tropical atlantic across the south. so a lot of cloud around, but we are going to see the highest temperatures across southern counties of england. now, i wouldn't even rule out an odd spot of drizzle towards the coasts and hills in the south to start the day. but, for many of us, probably a dry start. now, through the day we'll see outbreaks of rain pushing southwards across wales, quite murky through the bristol channel for a time. and there'll be further showers in western scotland as well. temperature—wise, coolish air across the north of the uk,
with temperatures between around 13 and 16 celsius. but, further south, well, the temperatures still into the low 20s. 22, 23 degrees, something like that around the london area. now, through tuesday night, we're going to see that weather front have a pulse of energy running along it, and that will push the rain back northwards, back into north—west england, back into the north of wales. that's where it starts the day on wednesday. and then wednesday, the rain will very slowly trickle its way southwards, where it will become confined to southern counties of england to take us into wednesday afternoon. so it'll stay quite dull and damp across these southern areas, with the rain perhaps even a bit slower to clear than this. and temperature—wise, 16 degrees in london. so those temperatures around seven degrees lower. it is going to be a much colder—feeling day in the south, particularly on wednesday. the rest of the week sees a bit more sunshine in the south,
so temperatures do tend to recover, but the north—west will see further showers from time to time. that's your weather. this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock. our top story: kim meets donald, the sequel. could north korea's leader be coming to washington for a second summit with president trump? a state of emergency is declared in virginia and the carolinas ahead of the arrival of hurricane florence. is europe suffering an identity crisis? we hear from hungary, a country some say is now out of step with the continent. should the right to be forgotten extend outside of europe? google doesn't thinks so, and appeals a decision by the european union. also in business briefing: a big takeover in the semiconductor industry, and it's all about self driving cars. we'll go live to our team in singapore for the latest.
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