tv BBC News at Five BBC News November 12, 2018 5:00pm-6:01pm GMT
the today at five — a couple who named their baby "adolf" in tribute to hitler are jailed for belonging to a banned neo—nazi group. the couple from leicester were convicted along with a third man for being members of national action. and are preparing to instigate a race war in the united kingdom. we'll talk to an expert on the rise of neo—nazi groups the other main stories on bbc news at 5... 48 hours to put together a deal — pressure mounts on theresa may to get ministers to rally around her brexit plan. labour says it could still be decided by a public vote. if that's not the case, then all options on the table, including a public vote. schoolchildren held in isolation — a bbc investigation discovers more than 200 children spent at least five consecutive days in measures to control their disruptive behaviour.
a senior police officer suggests lowering the threshold of suspicion for stop—and—search powers as a way of tackling knife crime. the death toll in the california wildfires reaches 31, with more than 200 people missing in what could become the state's deadliest fire ever. it's five o'clock. our main story is that three people have been convicted of being members of the far—right neo—nazi group national action — including a couple who named their baby after hitler. it brings to ten the number convicted this year of belong ing to a group which has been outlawed. adam thomas and claudia patatas from banbury and daniel
bogunovitch from leicester will be sentenced in december. the group, founded in 2013, was forbidden under anti—terror laws after it celebrated the murder of the labour mp, jo cox. our home affairs correspondent daniel sandford reports. a provocative national action demo, before it was banned as a neo—nazi terrorist organisation after celebrating the murder of the labour mpjo cox. on the left here, enthusiastically giving the nazi salute, was national action‘s main organiser in the midlands, alex deakin. open about his nazi views, he would recruit in universities and even targeted schoolchildren. but after national action was banned, he took his members underground. borrowing tactics from so—called islamic state, he communicated using an encrypted chat group called the triple k mafia, named after the ku klux klan. they are learning from other terrorist organisations how to communicate, how to radicalise,
how to recruit individuals, how to gather weaponry and equipment. their ambition hasn't changed, they are seeking violent extremism, they are seeking to wage a race war on the streets of the united kingdom. perhaps the most dangerous recruit to deakin‘s group was mikko vehvilainen, a serving lance corporal in the british army. he wrote about creating civil disorder and attacking national infrastructure, and accumulated a personal arsenal of guns, crossbows and knives. he had a dummy in his garage which he used to practise stabbing, and a collection of nazi—themed weapons and badges. he had access to young soldiers in his regiment, the royal anglian, and recruited at least three to the neo—nazi cause. he has now been found guilty of being a member of national action and has been thrown out of the army, along with one of his nazi recruits. these individuals were weeded out, there was a joint operation
between us and the police. if there are such serious breaches of values and standards, then the army will take the most serious action against these individuals. and what does that involve? well, that ranges, but it can result in their service being terminated. one of the most extreme people in mikko vehvilainen‘s group was adam thomas, who also wanted to join the army. he and his partner claudia patatas gave their baby the middle name adolf after adolf hitler. amazingly, just two years earlier, adam thomas had been in israel, and trying to convert to the jewish faith. but by the time of their arrest, claudia patatas and adam thomas‘s house was full of ku klux klan paraphernalia and nazi symbols, and they also had ambitions for violent disorder, stockpiling weapons like machetes in their bedroom and buying a £1000 crossbow. adam thomas even discussed stealing an sa—80 assault rifle from the army. his friend darren fletcher,
seen here on the left, wrote in the encrypted chat group about killing anti—white mps in the government, and adam thomas agreed this was a good idea. and it's not been just talk. in wales, one former national action member, zac davies, was convicted of attempting to murder a sikh dentist with a machete. another, jack renshaw, admitted plotting to murder his mp in lancashire. and a third, jack coulson, was found guilty of building a viable pipe bomb in yorkshire. the national action phenomenon and other extreme right—wing groups have led to a change in tactics by the government. the security service mi5 is now taking the lead in gathering intelligence on the threat. it means that extreme right—wing groups that pose a threat of violence are now being treated in the same way as other terrorist organisations. daniel sandford, bbc news, at mi5 headquarters. chris allen is an associate professor
of hate studies at the university of leicester — he joins us from our birmingham newsroom. tell us about this group, what skill of membership are we talking about? if we look back to before they were banned, the engaged in street activity like the english defence league but a very small hard—core numbers, 20 to 30 individuals. what we have seen with arrests and convictions in the past year, this isa convictions in the past year, this is a small number but they are really dedicated to the ideological cause which is the traditional nazi ideology, white supremacy is part of the world view and they are prepared to use violence and put violence into practice to achieve their aims. is that why police and the intelligence services have shown so
much interest in them because of their willingness to use violence? absolutely. with some of the other groups from the far right, there are talk —— that is talk about problems like diversity and emigration and muslims in britain being the problem but the have a propensity to use violence in this group. we saw that in the clip about the action in lancashire. on their website in 2017, they used the phrase, they are prepared to swing the bat unlike other groups. this is part of their image to others to draw people in and part of the ideological world view. what has been the effect on banning the organisation and prosecuting members? this has sent out a clear message that this type
of behaviour and ideology are not a pa rt of behaviour and ideology are not a part of britain today. we have wonderfully vibrant multicultural country. this influence is embedded in all aspects of our life. this is an organisation which wants to get rid of this in britain. it wants to use violence against those it sees as not being part of who we are, this could be the disabled, lgbtq good groups so we have seen a clear message being sent out. banning of this group has given the intelligence services and the police to deal with them and take them to trial. the more publicity you give them, that is the risk this will become a recruiting sergeants, what do you think about that? there will a lwa ys do you think about that? there will always be those attracted to these extreme ideologies. whether we're
talking about islamist or extreme right—wing. in this case, the police and intelligence services should be commended because they have taken this group seriously and have started to address this issue. when you hear about what other groups have been doing and their ideology, i think the vast majority of people it would be a turn off rather than a on. thank you very much forjoining us. “— on. thank you very much forjoining us. —— at turn one. theresa may is under even more pressure over brexit today — she has 48 hours to put a workable deal together — with full cabinet support — in time for a possible summit in brussels later this month. and that full support — seems still some way off. meanwhile, labour's spokesman keir starmer has said brexit can be stopped — appearing to openly contradict his party leaderjeremy corbyn. our political correspondent chris mason reports. the grand plan, a big brexit summit in brussels, looking a bit like this, to sign of a withdrawal agreement. the october deadline came and went.
and now, it's mid—november. the chances of a november summit are increasingly remote, what are the implications? we are working hard for a deal, a number of important issues which we still have to get bottomed out but we can't rush it, we have to get the right deal, this is an agreement which will endure for many years and we have to take the time to make sure that we get it right. have you got any time? we haven't set a particular deadline, we have to be mindful of the parliamentary arrangements in the uk. timeline — the uk is leaving the european union at 11 o'clock on friday the 29th march next year. the government wants a withdrawal agreement with the eu, preferably by the end of this month. but that could slip. and then it has to get it through parliament, which looks far from certain. and if it is defeated in the commons, frankly, who knows what will happen? the prime minister has tied her colours so firmly to this deal, if the deal doesn't get through it is very difficult to see how she can continue.
she would have to go? i think if the deal was voted down by parliament i cannot see how she could continue. and we now know the scale and breadth of concern within the cabinet when the prime minister's vision for brexit was first set out in the summer. trade secretary liam fox had concerns, as did the home secretary, sajid javid, and the chancellor wondered if it was achievable, and brexiteers like esther mcvey and penny mordaunt also expressed their doubts. and here is penny mordaunt today, not exactly oozing enthusiasm for the government's plan. the important thing is that there is two checks on this deal, cabinet and parliament. cabinet'sjob is to put something to parliament that is going to deliver on the referendum result. meanwhile over the weekend, the labour leaderjeremy corbyn said the brexit train can't be stopped. but take a look at this from, yes, his brexit spokesman. yes or no, can brexit be stopped?
yes, technically it can be stopped but the question is, what decisions will arise and what about the vote? and this former labour prime minister reckons there will be another referendum. but he is worried. if nothing changes, then we will be an even more divided britain, there is no doubt in my mind about that, more divided than during the three—day week of the '70s, more divided than during the miners strike in the eighties. as the current prime minister returned to downing street this morning, we are left with one big question — what is going to happen with brexit? your guess is as good as mine. chris mason, bbc news, westminster. we can cross now to our chief political correspondent vicki young who is at guildhall in central london ahead of the prime ministers speech this evening at the lord mayor's banquet it will be the elephant in the room because we are told she will not
even mentioned brexit? yes, it is ha rd to even mentioned brexit? yes, it is hard to know exactly what she will say but the extracts we have been given a more about global politics in the sense of our relationship with russia. theresa may spoke about this last year as well. she will talk about what happened in salisbury. there will be a message to russia, if it changes its ways we will respond. this rather cool relationship we mikko vehvilainen half is not one that the uk wants. but as you see —— brexit is dominating the agenda. these decisions are being deferred again and again because theresa may knows as soon as she comes out on one side oi’ as soon as she comes out on one side or the other, people in her party and in parliament will be unhappy. this has been demonstrated clearly
just by one family, thejohnson family, boris johnson opposing just by one family, thejohnson family, borisjohnson opposing what she wants to put forward from a brexiteer point of view and his brother resigning from government because he feels the need for a second referendum pitting the terms of any deal she gets to the british people. it is interesting, the view of labour, the confusion there is significant. with a very small majority or no majority without the dup, theresa may could need labour mps and jeremy corbyn does not think brexit can be stopped while many in his party think the policy which was decided at the labour party conference is that all options are on the table so we will have to see when theresa may decides the time is right to put any deal she gets from the eu to her cabinet. thank you very much. it will be interesting to see what she puts in that speech.
i'm joined by kate hoey, labour mp for vauxhall — she campaigned for leave during the referendum campaign. have the government whips been reaching out to you to help support the prime minister?. no, they are not particularly nice to me. i think they are clear of who they want to talk to and i would not be one of those. i will make up my mind when i see the deal. at the moment it is all speculation. what i'm hearing at the moment, i would not be happy with. in what way? we voted to leave and people did not say we want to leave a little bit or stay in a little bit, we voted to leave. when there was the referendum on devolution to wales, it went through bya devolution to wales, it went through by a tiny margin but people did not spend the next two years discussing
which part of would happen. mac it would not have huge economic consequences like people are worried with the exit. of course not but people are also think it will not be the disaster that some people are pointing to. i will not accept anything that allows northern ireland to be treated differently from the rest of the uk. do you think theresa may has therefore already lost with the dup on this? following the words from arlene foster. theresa may has not played it well from the beginning. to allow the european union to set the agenda was ridiculous. i think also she has perhaps not realise the strength of feeling there would be both within conservative unionists and labour unionists who believe in the united kingdom and do not want to see the
united kingdom broken up so separate agreements would be ridiculous. united kingdom broken up so separate agreements would be ridiculousm seems to be one of the stumbling points. what about your take on the resignation ofjo johnson? he points. what about your take on the resignation ofjojohnson? he said the referendum offered a false fa ntasy the referendum offered a false fantasy promise. he was always a remainer and campaigned hard for that. people on both sides said things they felt strongly about. the public made up their minds and we we re public made up their minds and we were told clearly, one referendum, the decision would be respected. labour had in their manifesto they would honour the manifesto. you think it is impossible to get a public vote again? keir starmer has to remember he's not the leader of the labour party, it isjeremy corbyn. the party conference did not thought to have accepted referendum
oi’ thought to have accepted referendum orfurther referendum. thought to have accepted referendum or further referendum. jeremy corbyn has done a very good job as leader in keeping the party together with very different views within it. recognising that so many of our labour supporters in the north and midlands voted to leave. to get a second referendum, not only would be ridiculous but to actually then, i think it would be very dangerous for democracy. thank you very much for being with us. 31 people are now confirmed dead, more than 200 remain missing, in the wildfires in northern california. that makes them the deadliest in the state's history. around 4,000 fire—fighters have been tackling the flames, which have been driven by hot, dry winds. chi chi izundu reports. three major fires continue on their path of destruction. the campfire in the foothills of the sierra nevada mountains north of sacramento has razed nearly 6500 buildings and effectively wiped the town of paradise off the map.
three major fires continue on their path of destruction. it is the most destructive fire in californian history. more than 200 are still missing and a quarter of a million people have fled the area. we had no more water and saw the fire came back and we just watched it go. the governor wants the white house to declare a major disaster to get more aid. there is a certain amount of dryness in the vegetation and the soil and the air. and the winds get up 50 to 60 mph. this is what happens. and we have to keep understanding it better. but we are in a new abnormal and things, things like this will be part of our future. in the us this year, wildfires have burned an area nearly the same size as northern ireland and wales combined, well above average. thousands of firefighters battling to contain the blazes in a region that has not seen significant rainfall for seven months. i have two sons and two grandchildren up there. i can't find out
anything about them. i don't know if they are all right or if they got out. this is a picture of them. for this man, tv appeals for loved ones have brought better news. overwhelming joy. just so ecstatic. i didn't know if they were alive and they're alive. the fires are not discriminating. celebrity homes have also been hit. welcome to my home in malibu. that is actor gerard butler returning to the ruins of his home. in a tweet he thanked emergency services for their sacrifice and courage. what we can do, we will do some short bursts, we'll keep our water. cool that propane tank occasionally. firefighters are doing what they can. they're urging people to heed the evacuation orders and a warning with 60 mph winds expected in the next few days, the fires are still spreading quickly and unexpectedly. chi—chi izundu, bbc news. let's hear now from
captain scott mclean from cal fire, the state of california's department of forestry and fire protection. what's your latest assessment of the fires? we have individuals assigned to three separate fires. the hill fire in southern california is starting to get wrapped up which is good news. the second fire continues to grow, roughly 93,000 acres right 110w. to grow, roughly 93,000 acres right now. there are over 330 individuals assigned to that fire. the fire is over 113 acres. both of those and the third fire are very impressive, they are burning in different directions. the campfire looks like
warnings have been lifted this morning which is good news because the troops can get closer to the fire lines and continue the great work they are doing. in terms of casualties, presumably you continue to expand that amount because when damping down you will find bodies? right. 29 confirmed fatalities on the campfire, two on the second fire. the campfire is no number one with the different fires which took place back in 1933. it is also the most destructive fire in californian history. in the light off, as you say, the worst in the state's history, what did you make of the
tweets from the president that there are no reasons for these fire except forest management is poor? frankly i am not going to address that. we have a fight to fight and men and women are doing that as we speak. have a fight to fight and men and women are doing that as we speakm is not helpful though? again, women are doing that as we speakm is not helpfulthough? again, i am not going to address it.|j is not helpfulthough? again, i am not going to address it. i read it because your governor says you need more resources and the president says he either remedy forest management or you will not get any more federal money. again, i will not address that. we have the budget. we have the money. we have also brought a resources from other states in our nation, the national guard has also allotted 100 troops to assist with our firefighting so we are looking good. so that will be encouraging news for people. what is
your sense of how long this will ta ke your sense of how long this will take you to get these fires under control? i presume it is difficult to predict. we are looking at until the end of the month, november. we are most grateful for you the end of the month, november. we are most gratefulfor you picking off the important work you are doing tojoin us in bbc news. thank you very much. a bbc news investigation has found that more than 200 hundred school children spent at least five consecutive days in isolation last year. isolation facilities are used to remove pupils from classrooms when their behaviour is disruptive. the department for education says children should be in isolation for no longer than is necessary; the health, safety and welfare of pupils must always be put first. the shelves, the mirrors, the beer walls, it was that every single day. let me know if you get tired.
walls, it was that every single day. let me know if you get tiredlj walls, it was that every single day. let me know if you get tired. i was athletic and i felt unwell and that is when it all went off. they put me ina room is when it all went off. they put me in a room in my own so i was in isolation. how did you learn? i did not. i copied out of gcse books. that would happen for months. they forgot about me. i did not exist. casey said he spent three months in a room on his own. his school said despite their best efforts, his regularly disruptive behaviour meant he could not benefit from the full school experience. they also say the room he was in was not the school's actual isolation facility and they dispute the length of time he spent on his own. many isolation units look like this. we have learned the widely used across our schools. some resemble classrooms but most are
lined with consequence booths, pupils sit at partitioned desks in silence, facing the wall. this teacher has spent the last 15 years visiting isolation rooms as a consultant. i have seen 50 children in isolation books, children with asperger‘s and autism. i met one child that spent 56 days in isolation, that is the custodial sentence. he says he is seen more schools using it for punishment. with us the regulation around it and the reporting? i asked the same question all the time, how many children here have additional needs and the answers was the same, all of them. separate them, help them to get back into the classroom, that would be perfect. it is like we now believe that imprisoning children is the route to better behaviour. show
me the evidence. our information request to more than 1000 secondary schools, 600 replied. within 200 schools, 600 replied. within 200 schools in england use them, one dozen in wales, six in scotland and nonein dozen in wales, six in scotland and none in northern ireland. we've learned that more than 200 children spent more than five consecutive daysin spent more than five consecutive days in isolation booths for a single punishment. we have found out 5000 pupils with special educational needs attended isolation and dozens of those have education, health and ca re of those have education, health and care plans. pupils with complex needs. we have obtained the rules for hundreds of isolation units. two do not allow children to leave for the entire day. we have also been sent these pictures, a room of isolation booths and seclusion room, used in a primary school. sailing towards the wall? richard is the
executive head of 13 schools. would you keep a child here week? no. he believes isolation can be effective but only for short periods. would you ever have a child with special educational needs? it would be extremely unlikely. he also says he understands why schools need sanctions. there is the gathering storm in the system regarding student behaviour. we have seen cuts in services and local authorities and the ability of schools to purchase a well—run alternative provision. schools are less well funded than they have been in the past. they have not got the means to do with this. government guidelines says schools are free to decide how long children should spend in isolation. if pupils wilfully misbehave. .. this is the independent adviser on behaviour to the department for education. we have
heard over 100 children spending more than five days in isolation. is that acceptable? i actually think it isa that acceptable? i actually think it is a positive thing to do sometimes. it can prevent long—term exclusion by keeping them in the school and looked after by the school because a lot of the children are at risk of joining gangs... in a booth, staring ata joining gangs... in a booth, staring at a wall. that can be friday or an hour or longer but frequently these places are where children are given lessons and work. c, his time on his owners had lasting impact.|j lessons and work. c, his time on his owners had lasting impact. i went into a deep depression. i locked myself in my bedroom every day. i shut the blinds and was in complete darkness. it felt like being isolated was normal. the department for education says children should be in isolation no longer than necessary and their health, safety
and welfare pupils must always come first. and welfare pupils must always come first. time for a look at the weather. here's susan powell with the forecast. london looked damp and dismal, how is it looking. most places of hard shoulders today. some storms and hail in the mix. some good downpours. the affected roads in the west of england as well. this is the picture for the rush hour, showers extending into northern england and northern ireland as well. however, into the small hours, this map sta rts into the small hours, this map starts to clear, dry weather is on the way. still some showers first thing on tuesday in northern england and scotland but overall tuesday promises to be a dry day. we are just moving into this bump between
the two areas of low pressure. this ridge of high pressure will kill off the showers as ago through stay. from wet weather initially to the north, but by lunchtime dry story story across the board. widespread sunshine, a bit easier in the west as cloud comes in following this rain on wednesday. another mild day on tuesday, highs of 1a or 15 degrees. this is bbc news. the headlines... a couple who named their baby after adolf hitler have been found guilty of belonging to the banned neo—nazi group, national action. a third man was also convicted today — the three will be sentenced in december. 48 hours to put together a deal — pressure mounts on theresa may to get ministers to rally around her plan for brexit. labour says the deal could still be decided by the country in a public vote. the death toll in the california
wildfires reaches 31, with more than 200 people missing in what could become the state's deadliest fire ever. around a quarter of a million people have been forced to flee their homes. now for a look at the day's sport. good afternoon. it's the second day of the season ending atp tour finals in london, the world number one novak djokovic in action later. in the day's first match the german alexander zverev beat marin cilic to win his first group match. cilic did have the upper hand in the first set, but world number five zverev fought back to force it to a tie break. the second set also went to a tie break, which zerev negotiated as cilic‘s poor run at the finals continues. despite the win, zverev said the court at the o2 arena is proving a challenge to the players. one of the quicker courts at all got
one of the quicker courts at all got on tour. it is different. quick and high bounce, so it is a mixture of both, so all games, but it's tough to find a rhythm in it. the world number one novak djokovic faces wimbledon semi finalistjohn isner this evening. you can follow that on five live sports extra and the bbc sport website. still to play a match at the women's t20 world cup, the forcast could prevent england from taking to the field again against bangladesh in st lucia. their opening game against sri lanka was abandoned at the weekend because of heavy rain, and more is forecast later. play is due to start at eight o'clock tonight. jos buttler could be asked to bat at number three for england in the second test with sri lanka on wednesday. despite victory in the first test, their first overseas in two years, joe root is expected to make changes
to england's top order there's still no confirmation that jonny bairstow will be fit for selection — buttler says he's be happy to bat where required. i think that adaptability that trevor and joe talked about, being flexible with the order is a real strength, and it has been a strength ofa strength, and it has been a strength of a one—day side for a while now, being able to be flexible in the order, and just because it is test match cricket, i don't think they're right he goes on the side to want those defined roles. of course you need a good balance of being settled, but i think it shows a good team environment, and i think that people are willing to play wherever is required of them. samir nasri is undergoing a medical at west ham and could be reunited with his former manchester city manager manuel pellegrini. nasri's served an 18 month ban for doping after being punished for using an intravenous drip containing more nutrients than the limit allowed. it's understood the france international will join west ham for six months —
but can sign a proper contract from the first of january. manchester city boss pep guardiola has been asked by the football association to explain comments he made about the referee before sunday's derby with manchester united. premier league bosses are not to speak about match officials before fixtures. but before his side's 3—1 home win, guardiola responded to a question that suggested anthony taylor might be biased in united's favour. he has until 6pm on thursday to respond. real madrid have registered santiago solari as the club's permanent manager. solari took over last month on an interim basis after the sacking of former spain managerjulen lopetgui. the spanish football association doesn't allow a temporary manager for more than two weeks so for now solari remains in charge. scotland have called up newcastle flanker gary graham for the rest of their autumn tests as an injury replacement for scarlets flanker blade thomson who is recovering from a concussion.
he was born in stirling and is the son of former scotland prop george graham. he had previously picked for england's training squad this autumn, but has yet to recieve an international cap so is elligible to be picked for scotland. we'll have more for you in sportsday at 6.30pm. thank you very much, john. more from the sports centre later with a full round—up at 630. a senior police officer has said the rules on stop—and—search are too restrictive, and has suggested lowering the threshold of suspicion for stops to take place. adrian hanstock, who's the national police chiefs' council lead on the issue, said the test could be where an officer was concerned that someone was at risk, or posed a risk to others. the mayor of london, sadiq khan, says body cameras can help make a difference to stop and search — but it must be combined with an increase in police numbers. i have always supported targeted
intelligence led stop and search. i was a big advocate for it and helped fund the world's biggest use of body worn cameras. it also reassures londoners that they stop and search is being done properly, but we have got to wait and see. what i am clear about, you can give the police all sorts of powers, but unless there we re sorts of powers, but unless there were an significant police numbers, it doesn't fully matter. the message i sent to the government is there's: invest in our police, and in our city, especially with numbers of police officers, but also in young people, as well. you are not worried about the increase of stop and search and community tensions?m has got to be lawful and targeted and intelligence led. it will be the case sometimes that someone is stopped or searched and they've done nothing wrong, that is why it is important for those stopped and searched is to be properly. have the
confidence to use this tool, the body worn video protects you, and londoners will know that it records interactions dream the police and members of the public. we policed by consent, it is no good if a police officer today stops and searches you and lawfully and wrongly. you go back and tie your family bout this, and then tomorrow, we ask you to provide intelligence to the police, and then we're surprised that you don't provide intelligence. with me now is nicola calica—miles — a knife crime campaigner working across london. her own son was stabbed 37 times when he was just 17 and survived. and in nottingham is nick glynn — a former police inspector who spent 31 years with leicestershire police. during that time while off duty he himself was stopped and searched about 30 times by officers from other forces. why do you think stop and search is
such a valuable tool in train to prevent knife crime? it is a valuable tool for the simple reason that it valuable tool for the simple reason thatitis valuable tool for the simple reason that it is supposed to do what it says on the ten, but, we have to understand that there has been a long history of police officers who abuse the fact, and they put fragments between the community and the police, so therefore, they were stuffing, you know, and u nfortu nately, stuffing, you know, and unfortunately, it was black, asian minority ethnicity, predominantly males, and what was happening as a result, they were just being stopped like mick has been stopped, 31 times, not even realising that he was an officer. it is a valuable tool, but we have got to remember that it tool, but we have got to remember thatitis tool, but we have got to remember that it is part of a wide plethora of tools, not just that it is part of a wide plethora of tools, notjust one simple thing that can be utilised to stop the serious violence. so when the representative from the national police council said actually less relaxed the conditions to give more
discretion to officers, if they think somebody might be a threat to others or a danger to themselves, because after all, those who carry knives and upping victims themselves, what you make of that? well, i think, themselves, what you make of that? well, ithink, as themselves, what you make of that? well, i think, as you say again, it isa well, i think, as you say again, it is a valuable tool, but it is a wide range of tools. so what needs to happen is, it has to be intelligence led. you can't just happen is, it has to be intelligence led. you can'tjust go by stopping people because you smell a little bit of contra band, people because you smell a little bit of contraband, because those same young people or groups of people that are being stopped for, you know if a officer smells a bit of contra band ? you know if a officer smells a bit of contraband? do you mean joe? lets do you mean —— do you mean woman dope. those same people aren't really breaking any major roles. yes, i do. they are not breaking any major laws, but because they have
been unlawfully targeted for something minor, they will stop giving community—based leaders information to flush out those people who are committing humours crimes. what about in your experience as a former police officer and as someone who has been stopped wrongly what you make of that? i don't think... ithink stopped wrongly what you make of that? i don't think... i think the powers the police have at the moment is right. there is a power that gives you power to stop and search people when you have got reasonable grounds, and there is a standard there that needs to be matt, and with the right scrutiny and oversight that there has been... and then there are no suspicion powers which can be used in circumstances when the police feel there is good to be serious violence. section 60 powers... they have got to have a specific reason for those? they can't be used willy—nilly? specific reason for those? they can't be used willy-nilly? indeed. and as long as the right checks and
balances are in base for when those powers are used, they can be effective, but i think the biggest point is that stop and search is not the answer to knife crime. it is only one of the tools that can be used by police, and other agencies, to solve this problem of knife crime particularly in london, and what we can't ignore, and as the mayo of london mentioned, that the cuts to the police service have consequences, the police service have consequences, and when you have a more visible police presence, that provides reassurance and makes a better intelligence, it means that communities trust the police and go to the police instead of taking things into their own hands. on that intelligence bases, as one of the problem is that there is pressure on them to act on this, but with less ofa them to act on this, but with less of a presence on the street, they have less intelligence on which to draw? i think they get less intelligence because there is less
police on the streets, and there is less trust in the police. also, they are misdirected, and the war on drugs and the focus on possession of small amounts of what ever drug it is, when there are problems with violent crime seems to beat me a mistake. it actually the focus should be on combating violent crime, and as i say, stop and search is only one of the tools that can be used to have a proper in pact on violent crime, and the met —— the mayor of london said, there needs to bea mayor of london said, there needs to be a long—term plan, because short—term plans about stop and search are not the solution. how do you overcome the perception that young people think that it is aimed at asked. that is the perception, and the statistics appear to give some basis that. almost 299,000...
full every five —— full every 5000 white person, 25... the stats speak a lot. that is why there is such concern within the community. there isa concern within the community. there is a lot of mistrust, however, thereof one people who work within thereof one people who work within the forces who recognise and have acknowledged the fact that there was police officers at that time who they flouted their authority. do you think it is changing? it is changing. i have sat down and spoken, with senior borough commanders and officers, who acknowledge the change. u nfortu nately, systemically, acknowledge the change. unfortunately, systemically, their leader was saying it wasn't a problem until five weeks ago, there wasn't a problem. now, there is a major problem, why? because in a week, you have had six or seven
young people lose their lives, and they are only the people that we know about. their run lots of knife crime activities that go unreported, and enough is enough. it has to stop. let me ask you one final question, given your experience, are you optimistic that your power —— this power can be used more effectively in the future? this power can be used more effectively in the future ?|j this power can be used more effectively in the future? i agree with you are the guest. it is being used effectively, but the oversight and the scrutiny over the use of the power has to continue. the police service needs to hold its nerve in a sense and learn the lessons, because we know what damage will be done if we know what damage will be done if we go back tojust stopping and searching everybody, so we need to carry on the progress that has been made in new last four or five years. retired inspector, make a claim, and also thank you also to nicola. thank you very much. thank you. the foreign secretaryjeremy
hunt is in saudi arabia urging the authorities there to do more to deliver justice for the family of the murdered journalist jamal khashoggi. he was killed in the saudi consulate in istanbul six weeks ago. the foreign secretary's visit comes after the us secretary of state, mike pompeo, told the saudi crown prince, that washington would hold everyone accountable who was involved in the killing. the foreign secretary's visit in saudi arabia started with a meeting this morning with king salman. mr hunt apparently aiming to keep pressure on the country's leadership following the killing of mr khashoggi last month. he was expected to tell them the international community remains united in horror and outrage at the brutal murder ofjamal khashoggi, and encourage the saudi authorities to cooperate fully with the turkish investigation into his death. it is now more than five weeks since the journalist made the fatal decision to enter the saudi consulate here in istanbul. having initially denied he had been murdered there, the saudi authorities eventually admitted this but are still claiming the royal family was not involved.
but at the weekend, turkey's president erdogan made an important announcement. he said he had handed over audio recordings to western countries, including britain, reportedly documenting the killing. and he says the murder was ordered at the highest levels of the saudi government. also adding to the pressure on the saudi leadership, the us secretary of state mike pompeo, in paris yesterday, said the united states would hold all those involved in the murder accountable. his comments made in a phone call with crown prince mohammed bin salman, the country's de facto leader. how much all this will convince the saudis to reveal all the details of who ordered the killing is questionable. and meanwhile, there is another agenda, the long conflict here in yemen, in which saudi arabia has been playing a key role. there is a push now for a ceasefire being led by the united states, britain and other western countries, as millions of yemenis face notjust
the fighting but also an impending famine. the bombing campaign led by saudi arabia and the united arab emirates has left many civilians dead. with the saudis under intense pressure over the murder of mr khashoggi, britain and the united states see an opportunity to make a ceasefire happen. as brexit negotiations reach another crunch point its reported that several cabinet ministers have expressed significant doubts about the prime minister's preferred brexit deal. parts of theresa may's plan were described as "worrying", "disappointing" and "concerning" by members of her top team at the meeting at the prime minister's country residence injuly. with me now is chris morris from bbc reality check. chris, trouble in the uk with the deal, what about the eu? what other concerns? broadbase speaking, the one thing to member is that the
withdrawal agreement will be legally binding, so it is the legal basis that a lot of eu countries will want to be going through line by line. one issue in particular that is causing problems at the moment, is there —— if there is to be a backstop for the irish border and if thatis backstop for the irish border and if that is to include a uk wide temporary customs union, the legal issueis temporary customs union, the legal issue is how might the uk beer to extricate itself from that, and one thing i think the eu will not compromise on, is it view, the legal view, that's the ultimate arbiter of eu law has to be the european court ofjustice. that will cause heart palpitations here in london. these issues become political very quickly. more than once, politicians in brussels have talked about a level playing field. what they mean in practical terms? well, level playing field. what they mean in practicalterms? well, again, we are talking about the idea of this
uk wide temporary customs union. a level playing field, as the name suggests, means that nobody should be able to gain and an advantage, and eu countries could look at the uk and say, if you in a temporary customs union, you can still send all the stuff you make tariff free. if that is the case, than we want you to follow more of our roles on things like environmental standards and workers' rights. that is one issue. then there are some specific issues that have political importance. one of them, of course, is fishing. the uk says nearly £1 billion of fish produce to the european market every year. if there isa european market every year. if there is a temperate customs union, tariff free, it will continue to do so. a lot of countries with fishing fleet say hang on, if you want to send your produce to our markets, we want to be able to send our bows to fish in your waters and the same way. there is a possibility that fishing could even be taken out of the
temporary customs union, in order so that it does not scupper the whole thing. just last week, the irish prime ministers said, yes, i think a deal could be done, but i think a deal could be done, but i think a deal could be done. do you think it's possible for them to do a deal in time, and if they don't, is it possible to extend the article 50 period? i think they do believe it is possible, but it's not certain. one of the things about article 50 is that we know that all eu negotiations come right down to the wire, but this is one that set a precise beginning and end date, a two year period ending on the day that we are due to leave the eu, 29th of march next year. the eu deal that —— believe that a deal is possible by then, if it got down to the last few weeks, then in theory, you can extend article 50, if all 28 eu countries agree. the government
says it doesn't want to do that. i don't think the eu would be keen, but in theory, if that's what it took, then ourfriend but in theory, if that's what it took, then our friend article 50 could be with us a bit longer. thank you very much. five years ago few people had heard of "fake news" — now, it seems, it's one of the issues of the day — from politics to social media. this week the bbc is running a series of reports on fake news. today, an investigation which has found that russian media and officials presented false claims about a us—funded laboratory — which led to a number of deaths — in the neighbouring country of georgia. the us has accused russia of disinformation. steve rosenberg reports from the georgian capital, tbilisi. russian tv breaks a story about america. the us army has been experimenting on humans at a secret laboratory outside tbilisi. it sounds dramatic. but is it true? we've come to tbilisi, georgia, to investigate.
the source of the russian news story is a former head of georgian state security, who fled to moscow. igor giorgadze is an ex—kgb man. his website has published leaked papers. proof, it claims, that georgians were given untested us medicines with deadly results. so these are real documents? yes, these are real documents. but we found the man who compiled the original document and he says the story is wrong. the whole world knew this programme. it was to eliminate hepatitis c in georgia. it's strange that mr giorgadze showed this to people claiming that it is kind of experiments, because 36,000 people were cured and maybe 200 of them were dead and had adverse events. so...
cured of hepatitis? of course, cured of hepatitis. the american drugs used in the programme had been approved. they're in the world health organisation's list of essential medicines. across town is the lugar lab, run by georgia, but built by the pentagon to secure deadly pathogens. moscow claims that the us army takes up two floors here. it doesn't. the director let us check the whole building. maybe we are storing somewhere. where are the american soldiers here?! laughter. and what about russia's assertion that the lab has plans for a drone to spread toxic mosquitoes? where is the evidence that we are doing here this? can they show us the evidence, that georgia is somewhere here in a dimension? the thing about disinformation, fake news, is that a lot of it sounds plausible until you stop and start picking apart what you're being told. and this story, as moscow has been telling it, is factually incorrect. but moscow doesn't seem too concerned about that. there is no proof at all of any experiments. translation: we know
there is no evidence right now. that doesn't mean that no evidence exists, right? suddenly even the man who started this story, igor giorgadze, is struggling to provide facts. but do you have evidence that drugs that had not been clinically approved were given to georgian patients? translation: no, i don't have any desire whatsoever to prove anything. i'm just asking questions. is this not simply, in a word, disinformation? i don't know. but then the aim of disinformation isn't to prove a story. it's to sow doubt and to blur the line between fact and fiction. steve rosenberg, bbc news, moscow.
there's more about the debate and research on 'fake news' on our website — that's all at bbc. co. uk/beyondfa kenews time for a look at the weather, here's the forecast. the site today, the reality of the showers all too clear across southern counties of england, across wales and the north—west of england. increasingly now, we are seeing them spreading into the north—east of england and heading up to scotland. here are some beautiful images of rainbows. here is one example. we have had a lot of pictures like this. i am sure a lot of you have been caught in the showers. driving it all, an area of low pressure, but just look downstream to the western little ridge of high
pressure, a break from the the western little ridge of high pressure, a breakfrom the rain. this evening, for the rush—hour drive home, it is quite a soggy story, however, until after midnight, things get much quieter to the south and across northern ireland. it is a taste of the comfort used it. still some showers that tuesday around northern ireland and scotland to end. tomorrow, the big difference is essentially you are looking at a much drier day. still breezy and mild, but there should be plenty of sunshine around. across northern england and scotland, the showers, they will thin out by lunchtime, and hopefully the majority of them were clear. perhaps just a feud popping off across wales running into the bristol channel, but overall, tomorrow afternoon, a giant picture, another mild afternoon. that is the first sign of what is waiting in the wings fast. back out to the atlantic we go, take a look at that. it is
this frontal system taking —— keeping —— creeping into the rest. when they looking pretty wet, getting drowsy day goes on. northern ireland and proving of time. scotla nd ireland and proving of time. scotland almost up with bigger cloud. just take a look at the temperatures. it is november. it is merely the people of november. 16 degrees there in belfast. and so, to the end of the week, and back to our pressure chart and our area of high pressure chart and our area of high pressure building across the continent. what's that will do is put a block on these weather fronts coming in from the atlantic, and leave a lot of dry wit the —— weather across the board by the time weather across the board by the time we get to friday, and it looks like well on into next week. pretty mild air initially, i don't think we will be complaining about the showers, we may well be complaining about grey skies, and also, some stubborn patches of fog, but to all of this, the end of this weeks, still some very impressive tebbutt is that this
time of year. we could see 16 or 17 degrees in some spots, again, on thursday. three people are found guilty of being members of the banned neo—nazi group national action. that's ten successful prosecutions this year. the jury heard the latest case involved "a specific type of terror "born out of a fanatical belief in white supremacy." two of those convicted, named their baby boy adolf, out of admiration for hitler. a really dangerous, well—structured organisation. at its heart is a neo—nazi ideology, that seeks to divide communities. one of those convicted this year was a serving soldier. also on the programme: