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tv   100 Women Interviews  BBC News  November 19, 2018 12:30am-1:00am GMT

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of the murder ofjournalist jamal khashoggi. but he said he wouldn't listen to the tape, which he described as vicious and violent. mr trump said cia reports that the saudi crown prince, mohammed bin salman, must have ordered the killing were premature, and it might be impossible to ever know. emergency workers in california are still struggling to contain wildfires that have devastated parts of the state over the last 10 days. at least 76 people have died. and this story is trending on bbc.com. a painting believed to be by pablo picasso has turned up in romania, six years after it was stolen from a dutch museum. harlequin head was one of seven masterpieces snatched from a museum in rotterdam in a raid that lasted only three minutes. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, zeinab badawi talks to the un deputy secretary general for the 100 women interviews. hello. i'm zeinab badawi. now, ajob
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here at the united nations headquarters in new york is the pinnacle in many pupil's property is stopping well, second in command at the un is a woman, the former nigerian politician amina mohammed. she says herjob is amazing and humbling. in this special interview, the bbc‘s 100 women series, i'll be talking to amina mohammed about how her colourful past, gender and identity have helped shape and influence her thinking and actions as one of the world's most powerful women. so, deputy secretary general djourou, delighted to have you as a special interview in this 100 women series on the bbc. here we are at
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the un headquarters in new york in the un headquarters in new york in the main reception area. these are the main reception area. these are the portraits. these are the men. the former secretary generals. you said it. all men. all men. boutros boutros—ghali. said it. all men. all men. boutros boutros-ghali. kofi annan. we must stop here at kofi annan, amina mohammed, i know when you were appointed deputy secretary general, and before that even, your mentor was very much kofi annan. in fact, you've described him as your touchdown. very much so. what did you mean by that? when i was first making a decision to come to the knighted nations, it was about mdgs to sdgs. millenniums is tenable goals to sustainable development goals. -- millennium sustainable. he
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was the father of that and making that decision was about going to him for that wisdom he had in that quiet way, forjust saying to him these are the things i think and where do you think this all is in the scheme of things? he was very good at encouraging you but giving you a reality check and you could pick up the phone any time, you could visit him any time, at least i could, and he was there, he was always there for us, he was always encouraging the next—generation. he was always about my future. you were very close to him, weren't you? yes, yes. he died at 80, of course, in august, rather unexpectedly for a lot of people, but he was working to the end with his dying breath trying to make the world a better place. he was marching for that piece that we saw in south africa. that quick journey to zimbabwe to encourage him to get across the transition of that election and young people, this is their future and to take it up. he
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was always pushing to make sure we attain all those ambitious hopes and aspirations we had, but with a reality to it. he would tell you how ha rd reality to it. he would tell you how hard the struggle would be and the journey and the pitfalls, but always in saying, you know, be very focused and, you know, just go for it. always just go for it. so this is the security council. yes, this it is. this is where you get real tensions... yes, this it is. this is where you get real tensions. .. there's a couple of other rooms actually that are smaller, even more tense. this is really where you have... you have people come in. there's public debate. sometimes when it's closed, thenit debate. sometimes when it's closed, then it really is just the member states, the ten to 15 member states and their support and their missions. just looking at some of the more controversial issues that have been discussed globally. we've had the murder of the saudi journalist, jamal khashoggi, of course, which has generated a great
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deal of discussion about what is the appropriate response and so on and so appropriate response and so on and so forth. the protection of journalists, the promotion of freedom of speech, this is all part and parcel of what you do. our core values. we've had asia bibi, the christian woman in pakistan who was released after spending eight years for committing blasphemy. do you see it as part of your own personal mission to speak up for individual cases like this? i think we do all the time, particularlyjournalists who go out to bring, as we say, the inside out, often in very, very dangerous situations and they tell the stories and they should be protected. i think wherever we see these atrocities happen, we have to call for justice, these atrocities happen, we have to call forjustice, we these atrocities happen, we have to call for justice, we have these atrocities happen, we have to call forjustice, we have to call for, as we have done in the case of khashoggi, the independent review of what happened. you know, we must have an investigation, we must know what happened, there must be justice for not only the victim but for his
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family and for all others that are suffering from the consequences of journalists that are being murdered doing theirjob, journalists that are being murdered doing their job, and journalists that are being murdered doing theirjob, and doing it for humanity, i would say. a number of these cases, if not forjournalists, we would not know when to speak up loudest because something had gotten way beyond what the normal i would say. you shine a light on the things that we need to be just about why we set up. why there is the charter. why we are celebrating the universal declaration of human rights. i think it's a reminder that without this global village, . .. it's a reminder that without this global village,... i it's a reminder that without this globalvillage,... i call it's a reminder that without this global village,... i call this the global village,... i call this the global town hall for our global village. this is really important oui’ village. this is really important our voices are heard and we continue to speak to those values and peace. so your security council belongs to you. 0ften doesn't feel like it, but i have to say, what we have in the un
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isa have to say, what we have in the un is a commodity called hope. so here i am at the united nations headquarters in new york. when are we going to see a woman's picture on there? soon i think. i think we going to see a woman's picture on there? soon i think. ithink we narrowly missed it last time and i think we will see its soon. i think eve ryo ne think we will see its soon. i think everyone feels that the time is almost there. such great efforts we re almost there. such great efforts were made last time, incredible women that came to the stage. for the first time we were actually interrogating potential solicitor generals. well, the solicitor general, secretary general, is evidently not a woman, antonio guterres, former portuguese prime minister, then he chose you as his deputy. do you think in this case actually your gender helped and the fa ct actually your gender helped and the fact also you're from the global south was a bonus? i think it helped because first and foremost, we were looking at a vision that he has for
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implementing the sustainable development agenda, for really looking to find a way to prevent the crises and to sustain peace. i think that he probably thought the profile ofa woman, that he probably thought the profile of a woman, and one in development, would do that. there was a bit of positive discrimination, let's say... positive discrimination, let's say. . . absolutely. positive discrimination, let's say... absolutely. but he did it left to right, he did it with his chef to cabernet and me, there were three of us and some people refer to us as three of us and some people refer to us as the holy trinity but he was there, and either side of him is a woman andi there, and either side of him is a woman and i think that's an amazing signal to the rest of the system and to the world. that's not to say that you weren't eminently qualified for this position because you were instrumental in getting the sustainable development goals, the sdgs in place, the world's poverty eradication targets. you'd been saluted for your vision and leadership by the former un secretary general, ban ki—moon. you we re secretary general, ban ki—moon. you were known to the system and a lot of people were very happy when you got that post. has it been as you
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expected? are you enjoying it?|j love challenges. when people say we can't do this, i say yes we can and we get on with it. i think the biggest challenge was to move from what we'd committed to in 2015, which was massive, on the sustainable development agenda which has changed the paradigm of how we do development, to the paris agreement, to financing, and then to make that more than words. i think that's been the challenge and a half. sdg five is the one that promotes gender equality and promotes gender equality and promotes women's empowerment, and you have described that one as the docking station of all the other sdgs. what did you mean by that?|j meant sdgs. what did you mean by that?” meant it wasn't just about as looking at the targets and the goal for gender equality, but if you look at it as a docking station for the other 16, every other one of those goals feeds off it and the goal
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feeds into it. if i look at education, for instance, gender equality‘s got to be at the centre of the education goal, as it has to be eradicating poverty, as it has to be eradicating poverty, as it has to be in cities or energy, access to energy and the way women need to be a central power of that for empowerment. there is a thread from that goal to others, and from those to the goal, that's really what i mean about it, you cannot take it alone as an integral part of all 16 goals. do you see yourself as when suddenly being there to make life better for females? i think for everyone, but i do believe that women suffer more disproportionately than men do. and it's again about the issue of where is ita it's again about the issue of where is it a woman sits in society, a girl sits inside it, and is allowed in terms of their rights, and they're not. they're not there at they're not. they're not there at the beginning, beginning when they
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go to school, a boy goes to school for the chance of an education and be able to achieve their aspirations and contribute to a society. a girl doesn't. therefore you have to fight harderfor doesn't. therefore you have to fight harder for the doesn't. therefore you have to fight harderfor the goal to get in. therefore what i want to do is not apologise for having to be a girl and not to see it as something that's added on or, you know, it's a... what's the word for it? that we're seen as we should be grateful for being at the table. after all, you've got 30% of you around the cabinet table. know, if we can find the capacity to be 70% around the table, so be it. what we really need to see is we have equal rights to all those things that allow us to be present and to be effective and to be part of society and our economies, and we're not seeing that. you were the eldest of five girls in yourfamily. a you were the eldest of five girls in your family. a british you were the eldest of five girls in yourfamily. a british mother and a nigerian father. who was a vet and also a herdsman. yes. you were born
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in the conservative north—east of nigeria, you're obviously muslim and you observe the muslim code of dress. i drive! how did growing up in such circumstances in a female household, apart from your father and so on, shape your thinking?” apart from your father and so on, shape your thinking? i think it had a great deal to do with it. first of all, my father, he was very close to his mother. as the oldest in his family, his mother was very special to him and she allowed him the opportunities i suppose at that time to getan opportunities i suppose at that time to get an education. not everyone in his family, including the boys, it was the cleverest in the class that got it and he was the one in his family that got an education, the rest didn't at that time and he was very protective of his two sisters. we grew up knowing they were special, over and above the uncles. i think that that helped. but we'll so i think that that helped. but we'll so grew i think that that helped. but we'll so grew up i think that that helped. but we'll so grew up in a community where eve ryo ne so grew up in a community where everyone mattered. in a sense the
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community in africa is a huge shock absorberfor any community in africa is a huge shock absorber for any challenge that you have. so no matter where we were in society, because my father became a civil servant and that in northern nigeria was a privilege, and so they would tell you that your children born with a silver spoon in your mouth but we never got forgotten where we came from. when you stepped down as environment minister in nigeria to take up the job of the deputy secretary general, one of your fellow ministers said, very determined woman. we tried to intimidate her but it didn't work! that's what they said about you.” didn't hear that one! absolutely. but your father then wanted you to come back to nigeria and he said, look, i got a nicejob working come back to nigeria and he said, look, i got a nice job working for you in an embassy but there wasn't thatjob and you ended up for more than a decade working it architectural practice in nigeria. and you've described the atmosphere
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there as being a bit sexist. what kind of things were said about you? because being by racial, white mother, they kind of thought you we re mother, they kind of thought you were a bit of an outsider and maybe didn't understand the local language. yes, i think they do, they think you come from such a higher level of society and so therefore... because you're more of their skin? yourfair because you're more of their skin? your fair skinned. because you're more of their skin? yourfair skinned. as because you're more of their skin? your fair skinned. as they say in nigeria, your blood is two. so they believe your privileged and you have a choice, so therefore you will take the white side of you and you will be less familiar or less even want to be the dark side of you. i think that was a little bit difficult for everybody to understand, that we spoke the language, that we very much were nigerians. my mother was, you know, very much about that, you identify with one and you make the most of the other and i think that's what it's been. we were brought up as nigerians, as muslims, and my
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village, nigeria, my country has been the core of what i am so i can't think otherwise.” been the core of what i am so i can't think otherwise. i know you're a great nigerian patriot, but it's all so sadly got a high level of violence against women, very high incidence of child brides, for instance, particularly in the conservative muslim parts of the country. that must cause you a great deal of distress when you see the very strongly patriarchal system resulting in this kind of discrimination and violence against women? it is, and i think it is the duty for every of us who live these privileged lives and are educated to talk about it because like poverty, if you stretch your hand in your family, there is that abuse top weight i know you won't mind my asking this but i know that your own personal experiences have informed a lot of the work that you do now. --
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i know you won't. the stop violence against women because you have described yourself as a survivor of domestic violence. yes, absolutely. surviving for me is about also acknowledging its comment sharing it. it is very difficult for me to share because it is almost something thatis share because it is almost something that is considered a shame when it first happened is, you think it is your fault. everything they tell you in documentaries and movies is correct and yet here i am, an educated person, deputy secretary general, at that time i was also a public officer, you do not want your children to know, they know by the way, if you think that they do not know, you are looking at your work and how that could be, that could be and how that could be, that could be a big, huge issue for you because if the media get hold of it, then it could become another issue. you're afraid to tell your parents or your relations because you know that their reaction could be even more violent than you would be responsible. i do not want to
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compromise the privacy and part suffice to just ask you how long the domestic abuse went on for and whether you succeeded to extricate yourself from it as soon as you could? yes, i think! did. yourself from it as soon as you could? yes, ithinki did. it yourself from it as soon as you could? yes, i think! did. it was not very long, i think a couple of yea rs. not very long, i think a couple of years. long enough. one day is enough. i mean when this happens to you, there are people outside the door that are too afraid to come in, they can't believe what is happening, and then you realise how quickly this could be the end. it is the one time with all my stubbornness, to tell you, that you suddenly feel very vulnerable because this is about physical strength, and then whatever it is that you think comes out of your mouth becomes nothing, and now you're just to survive and looking to make sure that you do not look any different from when he went into the room in the morning because you do not want your children to know. so yes, i think we have to, we have
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to bring a society that really believes and actualise is zero tolerance to violence against women. but just also looking tolerance to violence against women. butjust also looking at tolerance to violence against women. but just also looking at some tolerance to violence against women. butjust also looking at some of tolerance to violence against women. but just also looking at some of the other things that you have to do as deputy secretary general, speaking out for those who don't have a voice is when you look around the world and you see the terrible situation going on in yemen, where the secretary general antonio guterres has talked about this being the worst unitarian crisis in the world, 14 worst unitarian crisis in the world, 1a million people close to starvation, 7000 people have died in the conflict in the yemen, i mean, and so many of them bearing the brunt of women and children. do you feel just sometimes brunt of women and children. do you feeljust sometimes hopeless when you look at these kind of situations? well, huge. if you like it isa situations? well, huge. if you like it is a tsunami and about to engulf you but then you realise that voice does matter and that we have a platform here to use that voice, and we can hang on to our core values
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and remind people who are committing these atrocities for no good reason, for no good reason, the suffering is women and children, that you continue to shine a light on that and continue to speak very loudly. we need to be horrified, we need to show that this is, this is impossible and should not be happening in 2018. what are they listening to you... i think it is. you have described the united states's retreat for multilateralism as it is often presented, as leaving the un under siege, and this must lead to some kind of emasculation of the united nations, if the principal donor, the united states, has cut off some of its funding. you keep going at it, it starts right from when you're at home. what you do at home to bring an end to conflict, we we re home to bring an end to conflict, we were pa rt of home to bring an end to conflict, we were part of bringing an end to the conflict where we had militants blowing up our pipelines in the niger delta, we never thought that that can happen but we continue to engage in we got to the point where
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they put down their guns and they handed them over and they reintegrated, so when things go very wrong, it is now that you really need to draw on the networks and on the colleagues and on the people that you have and continue engaging. it is really difficult to engage with someone who totally defies the norms and standards of the core values that we hold. you mean president trump? i don't mean necessarily president trump, but i think that there are many people that it think that there are many people thatitis think that there are many people that it is very difficult to deal with. now we are used to that in africa, decades we have been dealing with leaders that should have been doing betterfor their with leaders that should have been doing better for their people with leaders that should have been doing betterfor their people but with leaders that should have been doing better for their people but we engage with them and i think that there is, there is a change, there isa there is, there is a change, there is a grassroots changing stock right but just sticking with is a grassroots changing stock right butjust sticking with the united states, you havejohn bolton backing the administration hearing it famously said when he was american ambassador to the un that you could blow a few of the flaws off, metaphorically speaking, and it would not make any difference. donald trump has in united nations
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is just somewhere where people get together, talk and just generally have a good time and that is it. there is a kernel of truth in some of the criticisms that the united states are making about the un, it isn't over bloated bureaucracy and, there are reforms that the secretary general and you are spearheading because it does need to be put in better shape for the 21st century, doesn't it? it does, we all recognise when it came on board that it is not fit for purpose. we have frameworks that are a comment selfie are going to deliver on the paris agreement climate change in on the sdg is, then we cannot be in the same shape and form that we were in 1945. it is not going to work, and i think we have to do better at the country level, we certainly have to do better to deliver closer to where it is needed and that is why the reforms are so important and the management and peace and security, we must have peacekeepers speaking to those on the political side of the are to get prevention... --
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sdgs. do that? the united states has pulled out millions and millions of dollars in the peacekeeping effort, thatis dollars in the peacekeeping effort, that is going to compromise your effort. well, perhaps it puts stress and are still is because if the peacekeepers are not there, you're going to have look for peace. i know the peacekeepers have saved lives and sacrificed and we have been in much worse stages, but the peacekeepers have seen that there is not going to be the peacekeepers in that crutch, maybe they will come alive to silencing the voice of conflict in africa. what next for you? and conflict in africa. what next for you ? and you conflict in africa. what next for you? and you have a career at the united nations that you've said in the past africa is my oyster, that phrase the world is my oyster, that thisjob will be phrase the world is my oyster, that this job will be over in the blink ofan this job will be over in the blink of an eye on then you are going back to nigeria. i am going back and, yes. what we do there? could we see a runfor yes. what we do there? could we see a run for president of nigeria?”
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know, i think very early on... you said you want to fix your country.” do want to fix my country but i do not think you necessarily have to be president to do so. i have served four residents and i think we have made great impact on getting forward on some issues, i would very much like to be the touchstone for the next generation to know what it is we need to fix it, because nigeria is so many things to everyone and i think we need someone to bring us together. that the record and women in political life is abysmal, is something like seven women senators out of just over something like seven women senators out ofjust over 100, 22 out of more than 300 in the lower chamber.m out ofjust over 100, 22 out of more than 300 in the lower chamber. it is not good, but it can get better and will not be about me getting into office, it will be about seeing how many i can put into office, and i think i go back with a certain amount of credibility, a certain amount of credibility, a certain amount of credibility, a certain amount of leverage among people and leaders, that i can open up those spaces. some going home and part of
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fixing it... not yet those. know, when we are finished, when we finished with antonio. s genders, your experiences, your identity influenced what you do. —— no. here at the un, being an african is that very important to the work you do, that you bring a very africa focused everything you do? yes, i do bring the fact that i am an african, woman of colour, that i also experienced coming from two very different backgrounds, as i understand two sides of the coin. all the time i am thinking about this sad and outside because that is why am i or so woman, i think women bring to table this ability to think widely and inclusively with determination and focus. —— also. we deliver results. we deliver babies, we deliver food around the table, we make sure that oui’ around the table, we make sure that our children get an education, we deliver, and so for me, i think that is what i doing here is that two
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member states, a sense of pride that the united nations can come together, member states and this bureaucracy, in a much betterform, to deliver. deputy secretary general of the united nations, thank you very much for talking to me on the bbc‘s 100 women: 2018 — the interviews season. thank you. hello there. this is the week where winter makes something of a comeback. the weather is set to get quite a bit colder. probably the coldest day will be tuesday in the week ahead. clear skies over recent hours have allowed temperatures to plummet away. northern scotland have already seen temperatures as low as —4 in inverness and also in braemar. but over the next two hours,
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cloud will be spreading in from the north sea across much of scotland and much of england, and into eastern areas of wales as well. that combined with a breeze should prevent a frost for many of us, but it should still be a chilly old start to the day. the main change compared to what we had over the weekend is there is going to be much more cloud in the sky. 0ccasional bright spells but through the afternoon, the cloud will thicken with showers. showers will come along in shower streams. one of those could well target kent and essex. another one moving into parts of norfolk and lincolnshire. showers will get a little bit less widespread as we get towards south—east england. you should be quite unlucky to see showers here, there will be one or two knocking around. temperatures not as cold as the weekend, looking at highs typically into single figures. colder air will begin to move in as we move into tuesday. the cloud thickens as well, there'll be further showers around, perhaps a bit of wintriness mixed in too.
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particularly but not exclusively over the hills. temperatures, well, looking at perhaps five degrees in places but factor in the strong winds, gusting to 40, maybe 50 miles an hour around the coast, and it will feel colder than these numbers would suggest, not that five is a particularly warm day. it will feel more like freezing in places. there could be a bit snow of around tuesday night, perhaps around the hills of wales, also the brecon beacons as well. the middle part of the week sees this big blocking pattern set up in thejet stream. that means the warmth in the atlantic really will not push in this week. instead, winds turning in a south—easterly direction. it is a slow recovery process with temperatures on tuesday into wednesday. you'll notice the winds coming from more of an east south—easterly direction, that will push the cloud showers further north into northern ireland in scotland. bits of white mixed in.
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yes, a bit of snow over the hills, the grampians could see some of that, maybe the tops of the northern pennines and the north york moors. another cold day mind you, highs of between seven and eight celsius for most. that's your weather. i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: president trump says he's been advised not to listen to an audio recording of the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi because it's too "violent" and "terrible" to listen to. it's suffering tape, it's a terrible tape. i've been fully briefed on it. there's been no reason for me to hear it. i said to the people, should i? they said you really shouldn't. california's wildfires — how the emergency services are coping with the crisis, with more than a thousand people still missing. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: the british prime minister speaks of a crucial few days ahead for her brexit plan — saying replacing her as leader wouldn't make negotiations any easier. and the story of the
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south korean soldier rowing his way to sporting success
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