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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  November 23, 2018 10:00am-11:00am GMT

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hello, it's friday, it's 103m, i'm victoria derbyshire. any moment now the united arab emirates ambassador in london is due to give a statement about the shock imprisonment of british phd student matthew hedges. his wife daniela tehada says she still doesn't even know where her husband is being held. he mentioned that his panic attacks have... have become worse. i think he'sjust absolutely terrified at the idea of having to spend the rest of his life behind bars. we'll bring you the uae ambassador's statement live. eu officials are meeting to finalise the brexit deal ahead of sunday's summit but spain says it might not sign up because it wants a say on future decisions about gibraltar. we'll bring you the latest. the number of boys being admitted to hospital in britain with eating disorders has almost doubled in eight years, and for the first time the number of boys being admitted is growing faster than the number of girls.
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that's according to analysis by bbc newsround. we'll talk to jack, whose anorexia as a teenager led to him being hospitalised after he was bullied at school and his parents split up. and you already know it's black friday, but are the deals all they're cracked up to be? we'll take a look at some of the offers on your behalf. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11am. that is the scene at the united arab emirates embassy in london and any moment now we're expecting a statement from the uae ambassador about the case of matthew hedges. we do not know how long the statement is going to be. we do not
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know the nature of the statement. there have been optimistic soundings this morning. does your son have an eating disorder? how did you spot the signs? we're talking later about that later. do share you expreinces this morning and if you want to join in the conversation do put your phone number in youremail so we can call you back. eu diplomats are meeting this morning to finalise the text of the brexit deal, and address 11th—hour objections raised by spain about gibraltar. the spanish prime minister has issued a new threat to veto the agreement, but it's expected to be signed off by member states at a summit on sunday. theresa may will answer questions about the deal in a special programme here on the bbc news channel and 5 live at 12:30pm. there are signs the foreign office may be closer to resolving the case of the british student, matthew hedges, who's been convicted of spying in the united arab emirates. the gulf state says it wants to find an amicable solution. its ambassador to london is expected to give a statement on the case
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in the next few minutes. the national audit office says the government will fail to meet its own deadline to install smart meters in every home in britain by 2020. more than 39 million meters still need to be replaced. the watchdog says the programme's budget is escalating, and a million meters that have been installed aren't working. the founder of the english defence league, tommy robinson, has been appointed as an adviser to the ukip leader, gerard batten. mr robinson, whose real name is stephen yaxley—lennon, will give advice on rape gangs and prison reform. the former party leader, nigel farage, says he's appalled. two brothers wanted by police in merseyside over suspected drug trafficking offences have been arrested in thailand. joseph and gregory mulhare from wirral were detained last week in pattaya by thai immigration police. they are suspected of trafficking cocaine,
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ecstasy and methamphetamine in the uk. shoppers have been warned to be on their guard when hunting for black friday bargains. the consumer group which says nine out of ten deals last year were no cheaper than at any other time, while cyber security experts say the sales are a prime opportunity for criminals to try to trick people into revealing their financial details. could there be movement today in the case of matthew hedges? the shock imprisonment of the british phd studentjailed for life two days ago for spying in the united arab emirates after a five minute hearing without a lawyer present has caused a huge diplomatic crisis. there are signs foreign office staff may be close to resolving the case. last night the foreign secretary jeremy hunt tweeted to say he'd had a constructive conversation with his oppositie number in the uae. mr hedges denies spying.
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we're expecting to hear a statement from the uae‘s ambassador to the uk, here he is. good morning. like the uk the uae government does not dictate their decks to the court. matthew care hedges was not convicted after a short trial as reported. threejudges convicted after a short trial as reported. three judges highlighted evidence in three earrings. there is the conclusion after a full and proper process. this was an extremely serious case. we live in a dangerous neighbourhood and national
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security must be a top priority. many researcher is visit the uae freely without breaking our laws and under uae law everyone has the right to appeal after conviction and eve ryo ne to appeal after conviction and everyone can request a pardon from oui’ everyone can request a pardon from our president. mr hedges‘ family have made a request for clemency and the government is studying that request. the british foreign secretary had a good conversation with our foreign minister. i also met him yesterday privately. as jeremy hunt said we have an extremely close partnership with the uk. because of the strength of that relationship we are hopeful that an amicable solution can be reached. thank you. that is the uae
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ambassador in london. he is not going to take any questions it does not look like. he said it was not a five—minute hearing that convicted matthew hedges, a british academic doing research work out there, he said like the uk the uae government does not dictate what happens in the courts, over one monthjudges evaluated the case, and the conclusion is after a full and proper process. national security is their top priority. he said many researchers worked there without any issues. it started to sound more optimistic. he said people have the right to appeal. matthew hedges‘ family have made an, a request for clemency which is being considered by the government. he reiterated the uk have a close relationship with the uae. what does that mean? uk have a close relationship with
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the uae. what does that mean7m looks likely uae government is keeping the door open to some sort of resolution. the ambassador saying they were looking for some sort of amicable resolution. jump back to earlier this week, the court hearing in abu dhabi in the uae. the foreign media were not allowed inside to observe the proceedings. in the wake of the healing the family of matthew hedges came out with this statement where they made the allegation the hearing lasted less than five minutes and his lawyer was not present. the government have pushed back on that since and in that statement from the embassy in london today a few minutes ago the ambassador pushing back on that seeing the hearing did not last less than five minutes. he said the judges had studied the case over several months and they had been considering all the evidence against him. at the end he said many researcher is visited the country
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every year without running into trouble. he pointed to the fact, there is a bit of news in what he says, the family has made a request for clemency from the government here in the uae so he said the government would be studying that over the next few days and we will be waiting to see what comes of that. thank you. let‘s talk to a friend and colleague of matthew hedge‘s now. chinzia bianco is from the institute of arab and islamic studies at the university of exeter. what did you make of the statement? i agree that the opening at the end where they say that there is a possibility to get clemency is a positive sign. at the same time from the point of view of those who know matt that would be clemency for a crime he has not committed. that does not eliminate the whole problem
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and the whole issue. the fact that... of course they want to point out that the government cannot influence the courts in the uae but because of it being a political case, matthew has been accused of spying for the uk government, it is intrinsically a political question and when the ambassador makes a reference to the importance of preserving national security because of the uae being in a dangerous neighbourhood, who are they protecting, preserving this national security against, the united kingdom? does the uk pose a threat to the uae? matthew has been accused of spying for the uk government. that would be quite a significant statement to make. sorry to interrupt. the ambassador was emphatic that over a period of time judges had evaluated the case properly, carefully, he talked about
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a full and proper process. the uk government says that they find their evidence not compelling at all, that they find no evidence for the charges repeatedly. the family says, his wife has given details about that, that there are a number of questions about whether he has received due process all the way through, about the frequency with which he was allowed to speak to council, to diplomatic staff and so on. these are points that have been debated in detail by matt‘s wife. the bottom line here is that the ambassador is secluded beauty the statement that came out of the minister for fears yesterday by local media as well which was
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basically containing the same information at the same points raised today. what we want... the broader issue is what does it mean in terms of the future of uk uae relations especially in education. in terms of the future of uk uae relations especially in educationlj will relations especially in education.” will come to that in a moment. you heard the ambassador say we are hopeful for heard the ambassador say we are hopefulfor an heard the ambassador say we are hopeful for an amicable solution. we have an extremely close relationship, reminded us that the family have media requests for clemency. does that give you for optimism? yes. the reference to an amicable solution and to clemency has been made repeatedly. it gives me hope. the implications for other researchers who want to study in this area. he said many researchers worked there without an issue. what you say of the implications? they
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are huge. there are is a letter signed by over 700 academics from all around the world, not only the uk or europe, from all sides of all universities around the world, and they already have expressed their concern. this letter has been put together by matt‘s wife. concerns are already widespread. the uae has invested a lot of time and resources into trying to build this soft power. dubai and abu dhabi. the number of initiatives in culture, opening museums, opening universities there. but this incident and actually a huge potential of upsetting that in a remarkable way, because right now universities are reticent. thank
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you. a friend and colleague of matthew hedges telling us she has some optimism that matthew hedges could be freed in the not too distant future. eu officials are meeting this morning to finalise the brexit deal, amid demands from spain for a say on future decisions about gibralter. meanwhile, theresa may has said that a deal on the uk and eu future relationship is within our grasp. what are the last minute demands from spain over gibraltar? two ways to look at this. the spanish government say that after the withdrawal agreement was put together last week, it is in draft form, and civil servants are going over it, the spanish so a completed document of the divorce which they say they were happy with. then in london they say there were two last
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article is added and one particular which has given a board of contention. article 184. it sets out that the eu and the uk should happen rapidly try to get a deal. the spanish say that gibraltar should be separate. it wants to have a joint decision over the future of the blogs with the uk. the issue is, angela merkel has said there can be no adding extra words. this will neither close. you will never have something in place for sunday. there isa something in place for sunday. there is a sense that theresa may thought she had compromised by speaking to pedro sanchez over the phone and we heard her speech yesterday saying things seem to be ok. he tweeted in english last night saying they are not ok and he will not sign and called that treachery. could the
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veto the whole deal orders are just that they do not sign up? legally they cannot to veto this. there has been a sense of unity all round on this. you need qualified majority, so this. you need qualified majority, so 20 out of 20 zevon countries can say yes. realistically you do not wa nt say yes. realistically you do not want a scenario where major country is not on board. and theresa may will be taking your questions on brexit later here on the bbc news channel at 12:30pm. email your questions to or you can text them to to 85058 or use #bbcaskthis. the number of boys being admitted to hospital in britain with eating disorders has almost doubled since 2010, according to stats that have been crunched by bbc newsround. 466 boys were hospitalised in england, wales and scotland for eating disorders in 2018. that compares with 235 boys back in 2010. this year there was a 14% rise
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in the number of boys admitted to hospital. whereas the number of girls hospitalised for eating disorders went up 11%. while girls still make up the greatest number of those sent to hospital, this is the first year the increase in boys has outnumbered girls. in a moment we‘ll talk to a young man who was hospitalised with anorexia. but first, charles wooldridge didn‘t know he had anorexia until he collapsed from near starvation on boxing day 2014. he‘d been exercising excessively and going without food and drink for weeks. he was admitted to the eating disorder unit at the royal free hospital in london and was the only boy. our reporter anna collinson spent some time with him during his final months on the ward before he turned 18 and had to leave for good. she made this report for radio 1‘s newsbeat in 2016. i am going to take you down a scary corridor.
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this is the kitchen. my first meal on the ward, i didn‘t really know what to expect. and you could just see that everyone was stressed out. this is one of the bays. so that‘s where the patients sleep. but i wasn‘t allowed in here because i‘m not a girl, so i had to be separated and sleep in the other bay. it was quite lonely. let‘s talk to 22 year old jack jacobs. jack‘s anorexia led to him being admitted to hospital as a teenager. in leeds is bev mattocks. bev‘s son ben was treated for anorexia as an outpatient and narrowly avoided ending up in hospital because of his eating disorder. and also here is dr dasha nicholls who heads up the eating disorder faculty
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at the royal college of psychiatrists. you were bullied at both primary and secondary and then your parents separated when you were 13. tell us what impact that had on you. the bullying has a massive impact on your mind, how you feel, how you think about yourself, i was being called fat a lot by teachers and students. when i looked in the manner that is what i started to believe and see and feel. my parents splitting up was a very challenging time of my life because it was something i couldn‘t control. ifelt like this my fault and i wanted to ta ke like this my fault and i wanted to take control of it and i started to ta ke take control of it and i started to take control of it and i started to take control of it and i started to take control of food and exercise. what did you do? i started to lose weight. in my mind it was healthy. i wa nted weight. in my mind it was healthy. i wanted to lose weight, to feel better to gulp, to feel more
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co mforta ble. better to gulp, to feel more comfortable. i went comfort to losing weight. i started losing weight and over two beers i started to deteriorate. what kind of exercise were you doing and how many hours? running, swimming, iwas already a very active child. it was not as if i had not done any exercise and then i was starting excessive exercise, ijust running and swimming and all of the exercise, instead of doing it for fun, asa exercise, instead of doing it for fun, as a kid you do it forfun, i was doing it because i had to meet a certain number that day for me to feel accomplished. how bad did it get? to the point where magpie was nearly dead in hospital. that was the day that changed my life. my blood pressure was being taken and
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the machine started beeping. i asked the machine started beeping. i asked the nurse if i was going to die and she did not give me a step as her and she said we have to speak to yourfamily. i and she said we have to speak to your family. i had and she said we have to speak to yourfamily. i had to decide and she said we have to speak to your family. i had to decide whether to start my recovery or end up in hospital full—time. to start my recovery or end up in hospital full-time. i will ask about your recovery in a moment. we would like a mum‘s perspective. your son played rugby for the school team, he was popular, good—looking, but something changed. what? was popular, good—looking, but something changed. what7m was popular, good—looking, but something changed. what? it sounds like a carbon copy of what the young man in the studio is saying. he became obsessed with exercising, excessive exercising. he had been sporty before as well. he also became obsessed with ritualistic eating. what does that mean? he was cutting out fats and carbohydrates from his diet. he was arranging his
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food round the plate and eating it really carefully and really slowly and rewriting recipes. he became obsessed with healthy cooking. the exercise is going on big style, the healthy cooking was going on big style, he was eating next and nothing and naturally he began to lose weight. he was also getting angry at mealtimes, occasions at school when he was bang his head against the wall. yes, and he would do that at home, he would refuse to eat what was put in front of him and it sent him into a frenzy and he used to rush out of the dining room and bang his head on the wall in the hall and dash upstairs to his bedroom screaming like a wild animal. it was horrendous to watch, really upsetting. heartbreaking for you as his mum. i will bring in a
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doctor to talk about the figures. how do you react to the fact there are, the number of boys being admitted to hospital for eating disorders has doubled since 2010. why? starting with the critical appraisal of where this has come from, there are a few things that have happened, changes to the diagnostic criteria mean they are more sensitive to picking up eating disorders in boys and girls so we are maybe recognising it in younger children in groups we were not previously recognising. the second has been a significant change in the way services are delivered for young people with eating disorders. huge investment in england in the last couple of years into community eating disorder services one of the purposes of which was to help reduce inpatient hospitalisation is one of the effects has deliberately been we might be hospitalising more people
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for brief periods to stabilise them. this is one of the issues around boys. boys have less body fat. they can get into medical trouble more quickly. they do not have as much truth there. if a boy starts starving himself his pulse, blood pressure and so starving himself his pulse, blood pressure and so on can get starving himself his pulse, blood pressure and so on can get into trouble more quickly. starvation in a boy can escalate really quickly to the point they need medical admission but it may be brief and admissions for medical stabilisation rather than long hospitalisations. it is not necessarily that more boys are getting eating disorders than being admitted to hospital. there are those potential explanations but it is also important to recognise that these figures match what we know from presentations at primary ca re know from presentations at primary care that boys are the group in which numbers are going up. we do not have to look far to see that two biggest risk factors, rioting
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behaviour and body image the satisfaction of those things we know are prevalent in society. we saw that with the child mental health figures yesterday. social media and so on. figures yesterday. social media and so on. they go hand-in-hand with rises in obesity. how did you recover? it has been a long and painful process. i left the hospital as an outpatient after six months. i decided to embark on my own journey to recovery and for me the biggest thing i had during my recovery was focus. you have to find your focus, your purpose, you have to find that in yourself and you have to become so in yourself and you have to become so self—aware that you understand yourself to the extent you can catch yourself to the extent you can catch yourself when you know you were going down the wrong road. that is the key to everything, building self awareness and understanding yourself and learning how to manage yourself. how is your son? he is fine now, he
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is 25, he went through university and gota is 25, he went through university and got a first class honours degree and got a first class honours degree and a masters degree and he is working. he is a different person. it is good news. what has been the impact on you and your husband? enormous pressure. 24—7 for all those years walking on eggshells being on red alert and it was horrendous, really awful. thank you for giving us such insight. jack, thank you, well done. callum says glad to see you talking about males with eating disorders. it is not talked about enough because there is still so much stigma. get in touch
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with us, you are very welcome. the average british shopper will spend £235 between today and monday evening, according to research from a big accountancy group. it‘s all part of black friday, a tradition imported from the united states and now leapt on by shops in this country. it‘s hard to miss the emails and adverts this time of year offering cut price details ahead of christmas but are all those offers really what they seem to be? our reporterjim reed has been looking into it. ? thanks. so here is more data from that research. one in six of us say they will definitely buy something this weekend. another 27% say they might if the prices are low enough. the highest interest comes from younger shoppers as you can see — under 35s much more likely to buy.
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it‘s not necessarily great news for shops though. most will be online on either laptops or as you can see on mobile phones. and you‘ve been looking at some of the deals out there? yes this is just three products we‘ve looked at as an example. so take one example: a cordless sound bar or speaker system that sits underneath your tv. it‘s on curry‘s website at £179 — advertised as a black tag deal. saying a saving of around £70 on their normal price. the consumer group which says last year it was advertised at the same price and then stayed at that price for the next two months. and in april this year it was then reduced further — to £149. before going up again.
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best price we could find — and this wasn‘t a black friday deal — was £143. right, so that is electronics. what else have you got? seven of every ten products sold are in that category. here‘s a slightly different example: a cordless vacuum cleaner. this one being advertised as a black friday special buy byjohn lewis at £349. when we looked at this you can buy exactly the same cleaner from the manufacturers‘ website at the same price. also which the consumer group says it was available at that price — or a cheaper price — at least 40 times from april untiljune this year. john lewis made the point that their prices are constantly changing because they price match with other shops. nevertheless — we looked and you can buy the same product elsewhere
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on the web at a cheaper price. we found it at £299 with free delivery. one more? toys are a big deal. as the third most popular segment of the third most popular segment of the technology and clothing. this, i am not quite sure what it is, some kind of cat heart set, reduced from 9.99, down to 6.31 on amazon. that is true, a reduction from the most recent price. but if you look back, it was about the same price, 6.50, from march tojuly. it is a reduction, but maybe not the most spectacular one off reduction that you might think. what is the advice for shoppers? which looked into this and found that although we just picked three items there, it is not a one off. three off! yes. they
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looked at 100 items and found that nine out of ten were available the same price or cheaper previously. it sounds obvious, but shop around and don‘t panic buy. if you see a big thing saying black friday offered off but you get drawn in! that's the danger. members of a family who were wrongfully convicted for two ira bombings in the 1970s say they are still suffering because of the experience. the maguire seven, including couple annie and patrick and their then teenage sons vincent and patrick, were jailed after the guilford and woolwich pub bombings in 1974. seven people were killed in those blasts. along with the guilford four, the maguires were acquitted, and received an apology from then prime minister tony blair in 2005. but, as a bbc two documentary will show this sunday, the impact of the arrests and the prosecution on the family is still felt.
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when the raid was over, eight innocent people were being brought to police stations across london and guildford. they took my family, and they pulled us apart. and that was it. you know? that was it. and sometimes when i think about it now and i‘m, like, "jesus, did that really happen?!" from that day on, we became... they became the maguire seven. that was anne marie maguire, who was only seven when most of the rest of her family was arrested. let‘s speak to her brother patrick maguire, who was arrested as a 13—year—old, and served four years in prison before being acquitted. thank you very much for talking to
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us. thank you very much for talking to us. i want you to take the audience to the day when you were arrested. you were 13, you went to school as normal, you went to the youth club as normal, as you were walking back, what happened ? as normal, as you were walking back, what happened? i only started to be allowed out at that sort of time, when i reached that age, as you said, that night there was lots of unmarked cars in the area and the engines were running. it was obvious to those, the other lads, that it was the police, but nobody knew what for. we thought it might be for us, to chase us. but they said, they are in your house, mate. i went up with my friends, i knocked on the door. a policewoman opened it, plain clothes, and said, what do you want? isaid,| clothes, and said, what do you want? i said, i live here. she said, we‘ve got another one. that is the day my childhood ended. the colour was
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taken out. childhood ended. the colour was ta ken out. as childhood ended. the colour was taken out. as an artist today, the child has become the artist, and i am just looking for rainbows. you we re am just looking for rainbows. you were taken to a police station. you we re were taken to a police station. you were questioned. what kind of questions did they ask you as a 13—year—old? questions did they ask you as a 13-year-old? the main police station i ended up going to was guildford, because they were going to charge me. on the way down he told me exactly what he was to do to me, regardless, that he was going to... i don‘t want to use bad language, but he was going to beat the crap out of me. we drove to some woods near guildford, he said he would like to take me an hour and blow my head off. he didn‘t say it as nicely as that. he said, like the ira did. isaid,| as that. he said, like the ira did. i said, i don‘t know what the ira do. to say i was scared would be an understatement, really. it all the timei
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understatement, really. it all the time i knew that we hadn‘t done anything wrong. they had made a mistake. but not knowing how far thatis mistake. but not knowing how far that is going to get me, is he going to believe this, you know? what questions did they ask? where did you get the bombs, where did your mum get the bombs, did you see him making the bombs, did any strange people come in? i didn‘t say, because of the abuse i was getting, the only strange person coming in was my dad when he had a beer. how did you answer the questions? said, you‘ve made a mistake. he was telling me about the forensic evidence, the swabs, traces in the fingernails, i had no fingernails, i was forever biting them. ijust knew this was wrong. they had made a mistake. i mean, i lived in that house. there was nothing hidden at all. despite that, you were charged with unlawfully handling explosives. could not have pronounced that, nitroglycerin, i don‘t know how to
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speu nitroglycerin, i don‘t know how to spell it is today, but i couldn‘t even pronounce it then. so this went straight over my head. i didn‘t know what was going on. for me, 16 months on bail, waiting to go to court, the local police took it upon themselves to let me know that i was there, three times a week, if i was beaten up, that was a good week for me. outside school, in the park, anywhere you like. they said to my mother are many occasions, out on bailfor about nine mother are many occasions, out on bail for about nine months, mother are many occasions, out on bailfor about nine months, we can‘t get you, but we can get him. and they said it with the language. you were jailed aged 14?” you were jailed aged 14? i was 14, yes. three weeks away from my 15th. my yes. three weeks away from my 15th. my first month was in... they said, you‘re going to the hospital, right? i was imprisoned by now. this was my second day, they said, you‘re going to hospital. i said, there is nothing wrong with me. then i thought, it‘s got to be better than prison. not knowing at prisons have really, they don‘t. it was solitary
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confinement for 23 hours a day for a month. they used to turn a little red light on. not because of my favourite colour, believe me. it has haunted me over the last few years. that child now, as i say, the artist, is trying to reclaim these colours. like me, like some of the other things, it was abused. like i say, my life turned black and white overnight. what i‘m trying to do is just reclaim these colours. in prison, you don‘t know, i was walking around with a blue and white striped shirt. the colours had worn out. they have such negative meanings? i'm in a negative place, it is not right. every opportunity i got in front of a governor, i was a lwa ys got in front of a governor, i was always in the punishment block for one reason or another, i was saying, i shouldn‘t be here. one reason or another, i was saying, i shouldn't be here. how old are you now? 47. i was going to say 57. how
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much of what happened to you as a teenager and the rest of your family, how much is still impacts you as a middle—aged man? family, how much is still impacts you as a middle-aged man? having children of my own, grandchildren. how could they do this to a child? children around the world are being abused one way or another, we see it every single day of the week and it is happening here. it hurts. it helps the child within. the adult that i am, my mother says i haven‘t grown up that i am, my mother says i haven‘t grown up to this day, that child feels this. and it does hurt. thank you very much for coming to talk to us. you very much for coming to talk to us. my pleasure. patrick mcguire. the film, a great british injustice, is on bbc two on sunday at 10pm the government has a target for every household to have a "smart meter" by 2020 — but the national audit office is warning that‘s
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simply not realistic. lots of those that have already been installed don‘t work anyway. perhaps you have a smart meter that does not work? let me know. speak that we can bring you the fourth in our series of brexit blind dates. we were going to play you this yesterday but breaking news meant we weren‘t able to. today ella whelan, a journalist and author who describes herself politically as "left of the left", and someone who voted for brexit — went out with former conservative mep stanleyjohnson, who‘s a remainer — and dad of ex—foreign secretary borisjohnson, who as you know fronted the vote leave campaign. brexit is coming. and politics is on the menu. so what happens when you send two people with opposing views on a blind date? i‘m just really nervous. will daggers be drawn? so do we keep the borders open?
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did you hear me say that? or deals done? will they want their brexit hard...? are you feeling that? yes, because essentially... or soft? and will the political...? i would have voted for brexit. oh, i'm leaving. ..get personal? you know, we could have a wonderful time. really, darling?! my name is ella whelan, i‘m a freelance journalist. i suppose i‘m best known for being a bit of a loudmouth. i voted leave. for those small minority who really hate brexit, ijust don‘t get it. i‘m stanleyjohnson, i‘m an environmentalist, i‘ve formally been a member of the european parliament, father of the johnson children, i voted for remain. my dad is irish immigrant, he‘s a builder. my politics is about putting power back into the hands of the working class. i‘m on the conservative side
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of the political spectrum. i cannot point to one mp that i think i really trust to handle brexit. i think it‘s going very badly at the moment. the prime minister, theresa may, she has not got the heart. jacob rees—mogg, he‘s very good on brexit that i would disagree with him on absolutely everything else. borisjohnson, i wouldn‘t trust him as far as i could throw. who is going to be my date? i don‘t know whether it‘s a man or a woman. i haven‘t been on a date in about six years. if i‘m having lunch with a woman, i wouldn‘t expect a woman to pay. i‘m actually really looking forward to the blind date! i hope he‘s hot. no, i‘mjoking! hello. hello, i‘m stanley. hi, i‘m ella. what‘s your surname, ella ? whelan. i know your surname. very nice to see you! nice to meet you. well, this isjolly nice, isn‘t it? look at this. what a fabulous place.
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let‘s get down to business, tell me about how you voted in the referendum and how you got into the business of brexit? i‘ve been an environmentalist and i set up an organisation called environmentalists for europe. and we campaigned very hard, you know, to stay in. and what about now, what‘s your feeling now? i‘m absolutely ready to say, we‘re going to leave but i‘m not at all happy. rather than have this chequers deal, it would be much better just to stay in any way. well, i come from it from the opposite, so i voted to leave. i saw the potential for a new way of doing politics completely, so it wasn‘t a... i am also pro the abolition of the house of lords, i want other countries in europe to leave the eu, i want a complete shake—up and to get back to sort of what this means for the uk, i think that it can‘t be anything other than a good thing to, from my point of view, put power back into the hands of the people, not just the few.
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the deal which is on the table at the moment, it does the job for you? no, so that‘s why we might find some common ground. oh, yeah, we can‘t find common ground right at the start! but the outcome i think is different. so from my point of view, i think the best thing to do now would be a no—deal, would be to give the proverbial finger to the eu and say the most important thing now is seeing this vote through in its entirety. hey, by the way, cheers. cheers, yes. cheers. here‘s to a successful outcome. yeah, i think we can both agree on that! look at that. i‘m very thrilled with this, i‘m glad i went for the beer as well! you wouldn‘t want a chateau neuf du pape or whatever? no, with bangers and mash, no. you have so many different points of view in relation to brexit within your family, i mean, what are discussions like at your dinner table?
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well, i think the amazing thing is that we now have total, as it were, harmony, in the family in the sense that we all realise that chequers is not where we want to go. boris is saying, let‘s chuck chequers. i‘m with him on that, lets chuck chequers. i am with him on that. but... butl... you take a long view, you take the long view and it is perfectly possible that 20 or 30 years from now we will say, the country will say, actually we were jolly right to... ok, so you actually have come to some kind of agreement within your family, despite you‘ve got levers and remainers? chuck chequers! chuck chequers, right! but it‘s the stage after chucking chequers that we might perhaps disagree about. chuck chequers sounds like a bit like a kind of pop star, doesn‘t it? anyway... so, the idea of staying in now would mean disregarding the vote in the first place. how do you square that? it is important that the british people realise, give its approval, to this and has a chance to give its approval.
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now you‘re suspicious, you say, you know, this second vote is a way of undermining it, say you‘ve said, yes, we‘ll have another look at this, we asked for the government to do something, this is what the government has done the we endorse it. are you saying that would not be an effective way of people exercising their vote? potentially, but the point is, we already did it. i would never support a final say referendum or a second referendum, i just... that would be like selling out to me. why? you might increase the majority? but the point is, the process of having that second say undermines the first say. i‘m not sure about that. people argue and say, you say you are pro—democracy, well, it‘s more democracy to have more votes but it‘s not more democracy if you have a rerun of a vote. it‘s less democracy. it wouldn‘t be a rerun of a vote... but we did already do it. no, what you did, you asked the government to leave. the government has tried its best, got a proposal, a proposal has gone
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through parliament... it hasn‘t tried its best, you can‘t screw up a vote, which i think the government has done with brexit, for two years, and then at the end of it, say, we tried, we failed, you can‘t really blame us. let‘s just talk about what if... so, nigel farage is not my colleague, does not represent me. the thing that he says about people going out in the streets and it being sort of poll tax 2.0 — i don‘t think that is the case. i wish it were. the anger that i feel, the political anger, not emotional anger but political anger that i feel about... are you really talking about political anger, are you feeling that? yes. wow! because, is essentially, if this doesn‘t work and this brexit deal gets scrapped, or if there is a second referendum... you‘re going to convince me... but what that means is, every vote that we take part in is worthless. because what you‘ve set is a precedent which says, when the british people speak, the people in charge can overturn it. given it was the british people who started the whole process, we want the british people
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to endorse the view of parliament. i don‘t think that‘s a travesty of democracy. my father grew up in wicklow which is just below dublin, my whole family is irish... you don‘t speak with a very irish accent. well, no, i grew up in london. can you do an irish accent? no, i‘m not going to try to do that! well, we‘re in an irish cafe! the union jacks. .. 0h, 0k. but my father, he grew up in ireland during the time of the troubles, he used to say, a bridge would be blown up on the border and then the irish would build it again. it‘s this thing which was seen as something that you could get beyond. even at that point of extreme political tension, the border was part of people‘s lives but it wasn‘t something that necessarily stopped a little discussion. it‘s one of the ugliest, oldest racist stereotypes against irish people, that we love a fight, that we are a sort of these raging lunatics who are just going to jump out of the bushes with a machine gun and gun each other down. it‘s madness.
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the bogs, not the bushes! the bogs! you can‘t leave the eu, for my mind, without having a border between northern ireland and ireland. but that of course is something the country doesn‘t want to contemplate. the customs problem, then the border problem would be resolved. if ireland joined us in leaving, what about that, would you go for that? yeah, i think that brexit should be... there you go, brilliant solution, emma and stanley come up with a brilliant solution — southern ireland, the irish republic, also leaves, border problem resolved! there‘s been a lot of characterisation of the brexit vote is this very anti—immigrant, very xenophobic, you know, brexit voters don‘t like immigrants. how do you see them, do you go in with that idea? i think the immigration is a totally crucial issue, i think it‘s absolutely vital that we get a handle on immigration. what worries me is, with the current proposals, is,
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they don‘t indeed give us power to deal with the movement of people. staying in, for example, if we did stay in, we would absolutely have to say we‘re staying in but we are invoking all the exceptions we could possibly invoke. well, i‘m perhaps a bit of an odd fish on that because my opinion is, more people is always better, i think there‘s power in people and i like the idea of immigration and migration as a force that can be good for society. but i want to have a national discussion about immigration, i want to argue for open borders, i want to argue for borders but open and liberal borders. but i think where we might find common ground is, i don‘t know how you feel about this, but the discussion about immigration is so hostile, is so utterly hostile, that if you voice something like you‘ve just voiced, you get labelled a bigoted. bringing up what your son, borisjohnson, said, in relation to... he is rather pro—immigration, i can tell you, boris. if i disagree with boris on that sort of thing, i disagree with him about being as pro—immigration
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as he is. i looked at it and i say, this country cannot absorb all the people it has, i go much further and i say, as a world issue, it is shameful the way we have failed to continue the effort which was made from the ‘70s onwards to try and bring down birth rates around the world. so, you and i possibly would disagree on immigration for different reasons. i‘d be more on the brexiteer side on immigration than you would be but that is because i speak as an environmentalist. thank you. no, that‘s not fair. we have to split. i‘m not a chap who believes that women should pay for their lunch. i‘m putting that in there. that ought to cover it. i really love that. d‘you know, i‘m thinking about the date palm is really under
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threat, so and thinking of setting a campaign called save the date. save the date, right. right. we obviously come at it from different backgrounds and that‘s been part of the interesting... i‘ve got some irish in my family. have you? oh well, we should meet up in wicklow, i‘ll take you on a walk. that could be our second date! save the date, save the date! what about 29th march 2019? yeah, i‘ll see you there. oh, i can‘t, i‘m washing my hair! oh, that‘s a good one! all right. thank you very, very much. thank you. thanks very much, bye. there‘s obviously much more on brexit and the ins and outs of the deal that theresa may is hoping will be signed off on sunday on the bbc website. and if you want to share your views on brexit, you can apply to be part of our audience for our big debate. it‘s on monday the 3rd of december in birmingham.
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we‘ll have an audience, and a panel of mps to answer your questions. we are not going to go over old ground, we are going to find out what you want mps to do for you next. sent us an e—mail. and the final installment of brexit blind dates will be on monday when dustin lance black — the film—maker who‘s married to tom daley meets ulrika johnson — she‘s a leaver, he‘s a remainer. is have you been bombarded with requests from your energy supplier to have a smart meter installed? the government says everyone should have one by 2020 — but today the national audit office is warning that there‘s "no realistic prospect" of that happening, because they‘re not being insalled fast enough. and not only that — 70% of the first generation of these meters stop working when customers switch energy providers. i‘m joined now by dhara vyas — she is head of future energy services at citizens advice.
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catherine hall — she had a smart meter installed a few years ago, but, as has happened for many others, it stopped working first, dhara, what are smart meter is meant to do? it is digitising the way we measure the way we use energy. so, your current and christie and gas meter, if you don‘t have a smart meter karmis analog. it's have a smart meter karmis analog. it‘s one of the last analogue things in most people‘s homes. if it works properly, it should mean an end to estimated bills, it should mean you know exactly what you are using when you use it. the aspiration is when you use it. the aspiration is when you have a monitor saying what you are using, you can use that information to change how you use energy and become more efficient. reducing bills? yes. not everybody will get one by 2020, no way? no, we
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have been saying this for a while. the 2020 and data, i don‘t think there was much of a rationale for it. ultimately, what we think is that smart meters are a really good thing and people can really stand to benefit from them. but the roll—out needs to be done right. when the installer is in their home, they need to be told how to use it, make sure it works and to feel the benefit you need to be enough to use the data. having a new meter means no difference unless you know what to do with information. it seems to work for most people until they decide to switch suppliers. catherine, what happened?” decide to switch suppliers. catherine, what happened? i had a smart meter about three years ago, andl smart meter about three years ago, and i was very happy to have it, i was concerned about climate change. when i switch suppliers to another big supplier about a year afterwards, it stopped communicating to that company. so, clearly, it cannot download the data to them. so my bills are still having to have the meter man round to read the meter. the little monitor would still work, i have it in my hand,
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but it would not tell you the pricing because that relates to the previous supplier. sol pricing because that relates to the previous supplier. so i disconnected the thing, and i am just behaving as i have always done, which is being very careful with energy. the problem is, i've now been contacted by the second supplier and asked, can we install a smart meter? my answer is no, i've got one. it doesn't work. what i would like to doesn't work. what i would like to do is have it updated or upgraded so it will talk to scottish power, in this case. understood. it is such a bore. it's a waste of money to have another installation and all of the cost and disruption. i'm sticking to my old meter until somebody can fire it up again to speak to my new company, if that is going to happen. there is a question that it might. dhara, peter asks a good question, why isn‘t there a standard smart meter, so when you switch suppliers it continues to wear? the answer to thatis it continues to wear? the answer to that is that they're sort of is. it isa that is that they're sort of is. it is a massive programme, it costs
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about £11 billion. this first generation of meters which catherine has got, there was supposed to be about 5 million installed so that you can really learn from the experience, how it works. within that period of time, we are supposed to have a national infrastructure, communications infrastructure, through which the second—generation woodwork. the second—generation, the vast majority of homes in the country, they would talk to each other. when you switch, you would not experience these problems. however, because of the time delays around the experience, instead of that 5 million, there is around 12 million now. more and more people are going to experience these sorts of problems. rich says the industry would need to install 30 metres every minute over the next two years to reach the 2020 target. so far they are installing fewer than ten per minute. citizens advice is
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calling for the end date to be changed to 2023. today's report showed that actually there is no economic rationale for that end date. if you extend it and give people a bit more time and experience, ultimately they are only worth it if the customer can use the data and information properly. let's make sure customers can benefit. angelo says i have a smart meter, which i think is faulty. the gas meter reads an extra 50 kwh when a heating has been on fifa hours. i have just a boiler. heating has been on fifa hours. i havejust a boiler. i negotiated to pay about £70 a month so i wouldn‘t get into debt. i never paid more than £32 a month before that. i am working with the company to sort it out but it is a slow process. dianne sayer she has a smart meter and it is working well for me. it is a nudge for how much energy i am using. thanks for coming on the programme. abc newsroom live is next. thanks
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for your company, have a brilliant day and weekend. hello, good morning. misty and murky start to the day, but some of that is lifting. a few bright spells breaking through the cloud. for many, it will stay quite cloudy, like this weather watcher photo here. we have some showers this morning across the south—west of england, south and west wales. some of the showers drifting into north wales. through the afternoon, the showers in the south—west might continue. some showers also across northern and eastern scotland, some sunny spells in south—west scotland,
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northern ireland and northern england. maximum temperature is getting up to six or 10 degrees. heavy showers will continue through the night in the south—west quadrant of the uk. gradually, some heavy showers will move into southern coastal counties. largely tonight with temperatures up to three or 7 degrees, largely frost free into saturday. staying quite wet in southern areas saturday. staying quite wet in southern areas on saturday. staying quite wet in southern areas on saturday. a bit drier the further north you go. on sunday, quite a bit of cloud across the uk and ambushes across the uk about eight or 10 celsius. you‘re watching bbc newsroom live. it‘s 11am and these are the main stories this morning. theresa may tries to sell her brexit deal to the public as eu diplomats
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meet this morning to finalise the agreement amid last—minute spanish concerns about gibraltar. the prime minister will be taking your questions on brexit in a special programme right here on the bbc news channel and radio 5 live at 12.30. the united arab emirates‘ ambassador to the uk defends the trial of british academic matthew hedges, sentenced to life imprisonment, but says his government is studying a request for clemency. everyone can request a pardon from our president. mr hedges‘ family have made a request for clemency and the government is studying that request.


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