tv Dateline London BBC News November 25, 2018 2:30am-3:01am GMT
this is bbc news, the headlines: one of the biggest football matches in argentina's history, the copa libertadores final, has been postponed after the boca juniors team bus was attacked by rival fans in buenos aires. they were due to play river plate. theresa may has written an open letter to the british public, urging people to back her brexit deal. the plan was finalised with the european commission president, jean—claude juncker, in brussels ahead of a historic summit on sunday. but it faces widespread opposition in the british parliament. police in paris have used tear gas and water cannon to disperse tens of thousands of protesters calling for an end to fuel tax rises. protests by a grassroots movement identified by their hi—vizjackets have been held across france for the second weekend running. now on bbc news, it's time for dateline london. hello and welcome to
dateline london, bringing together in debate leading uk commentators with foreign correspondents who file their stories with the dateline london. on today's programme: theresa may exercises her muscles in brussels this weekend, but will the knock—out blow to her brexit deal be delivered at westminster? is a gulf opening up between the west and the gulf states 7 and as the british museum lends to nigeria valuable stolen bronzes, is it time to hand back the loot of empire? with me: janet daley, columnist for the sunday telegraph nabila ramdani, who reports widely on thre arab world us broadcaster michael goldfarb, host of the podcast, the first rough draft of history and the belgian journalist marc roche
of the weekly magazine le point. a weekend in brussels for theresa may as she and the leaders of 27 other countries sign off on the uk's divorce from the european union. mrs may has been fending off last minute objections. brinkmanship, perhaps from countries like spain and france, hoping for further british concessions. because only a majority of eu countries need to approve the deal, in all likelihood the brussels summit will end in smiles and handshakes. back in london, though, the withdrawal terms face a much tougher audience. her former brexit secretary, an enthusiast for leaving, thinks the terms are worse than staying in the europeran union. with the support of the democratic unionists, a party from northern ireland, on paper the prime minister has a majority of the votes in the house of commons — just. but the dup won't back the deal, and 80 of her own conservative mps say the same. if we were to go back to the european union and say ‘people didn't like that deal can we have another one?,' i don't think they are going to come to us and say ‘we will give you a better deal‘.
"this is the deal that i think works for the uk," is it a deal they shall? as theresa may said, it is take it or leave it, this is the only deal to lead the european union and at the same time keep links with it. brexiteers are happy nearly the european union and the remaining somehow unhappy also because for many years there will be a link through the customs union. britain has no choice, this is a good deal, a compromise deal, it makes business people very happy, gives continuity to business and more than anything it gives a future to britain and europe but outside the eu. i think that people like janet who disagree should forget about delusion of grandeur, forget about going on your own, you should think this is the deal and you should embrace it for the national interest of britain. i thought the only people who made you an offer he
couldn't refuse or the mafia. this is a new political development on the world stage. there are sound reasons why people are saying it would be better to stay in and some of them mean it's because they are mischievous and our remainders and want to stay in enemy and other people are saying it sincerely because what they mean is that it is a basic principle of modern democracy that the legitimacy of the law derives from the consent of the people and once you remove the principal at our forget that, you are doing something that should be morally repugnant. therefore if we stay in without a voice in making the laws and rules and regulations and we accept like a colony of a conquered nation rules that have been made by other countries then we are losing the plot in terms of democratic... you are a vassal of the european union, it was united in
the british where disunited. this has been going on for two years and the first time i said the grass was long and this is where we would end up but i am not sure this will happen now. why are we going through this two—week long shaun knight? she will have to write a couple of columns and when she brings this withdrawal agreement to the commons the arithmetic as of today does not work. she is going down. perhaps that is why the other leaders have decided that it is going to be no photo call, no handshake because they don't want printed to be slated the deal is demolished. when really talk about,
majority are majorities, 60 million people voted to remain, 17 million roughly voted to leave. the 60 million have no party that have arguing their case and parliament. oh yes they do. both parties are arguing strenuously and getting an enormous amount... crosstalk. what is the labour party policy? that is a complete mystery. now we are going to get to what seems to be
inevitable, just as julius caesar was offered the crown three times yesterday she is theresa may was offered the question will you does resign and she declined to answer. we are entering a new season of the parliamentary arithmetic is correct when she is not going to get the withdrawal agreement through then there will be a general election and then what on earth will happen. there doesn't have to be a general election, there has to be a leadership election although the party could do the same thing and decided by acclamation to appoint a caretaker who will say explicitly will not stand at the next general election but i will see us through this period. that would be the most sane and rational way to approach will stop when has sane and rational bean andy last two years? britain has been renegotiating its relationship with europe for centuries but the myth that the uk can now throw the entire chessboard
in the air and go it alone has been exposed and i think the biggest problem facing britain at the moment as the vast disconnect between ideology and practical reality. if you strip or the ideology out of brexit, the national was an flag—waving and sense of exceptionalism and entitlement, you are left with mind—numbing practical problems that would potentially go on for decades if they can be resolved at all. i think the brexiteers are more excited by the idea brexit the reality of it and european politicians and actually slaving over fiendishly complicated divorce bills and it sums up the problems, hugely sensitive issues such as gibraltar and the irish border who the kind who would require huge amounts of time and energy and yet they are being tossed into the big brexit pot. that is the problem. the irish border problem was addressed, and it got lost
in the shuffle. the irish border problem now miraculously the eu has decided could be solved by technological means and trusted trade agreements, they described as five minutes ago as magical thinking. it is very fudged, and it is great heavy weather being made of the fact that the withdrawal agreement still talks about the backstop and puts it into more although it would be a world stopping event and if it can be resolved with technology and trusted trade agreements in the backstop disappears and the need for us to stay in the customs union and definitely disappears. that is on the andy political director, does not legally binding but the withdrawal agreement as a legally binding and that
still talks about the backstop so now an outright contradiction between the withdrawal agreement... they talk over each other connecticut back to the question i asked which is this summit a shell out if this deal is going to be defeated at westminster? —— is a charade? what is probably going to happen now as they managed no deal, we are going to get no deal and come out and it is going to be much less traumatic than everybody has been claiming it would be. within six months everything will settle back. they talk over each other we will have your back together and six months to see if
that has come to pass. us president donald trump has concluded that it doesn't matter whether or not saudi arabia's crown prince knew in advance about the plan to murderjamal khashoggi. the united states will remain a "steadfast" partner, regardless. uk officials appeared a bit more embarassed about their partnership — 200 of its military engaged
in a joint exercise this wereked. not that all is well in uk—gulf relations. the british have courted displeasure with their efforts to sponsor a ceasefire in the war being waged in yemen. on wednesday, a court in the united arab emirates jailed for life a post—graduate student the uae says is a spy. the british foreign secretary warned of "serious diplomatic consequences". there are signs as the meeting is upon us that the uae is sending a different signal about this case, it is possible this young man could eventually be released but there seems to have been real shock at the sentence and a kind of disconnect between what the british were thinking would happen and what actually happened. this is a horrific story that has captured the imagination of the british audience and public for all the right reasons and the uae is currently considering clemency and the laptops for a presidential pardon given the eco—solution ship between the uae and to think it is likely to be granted. i think this is also probably in response to the public outcry which has been led by the media but the british government, diplomats seem to have been taken by surprise by the sentence and you have two would have thought british diplomats would have looked more closely and to this case as special as it involved an alleged british
agent being charged for spying. there's something changing about the relationship between the west and the gulf states? and the past they have been thought of as close allies, the west not always keen to call out some of the things happening it might normally not approve of in those countries, broadly following a foreign policy line that the western approved of. i think with all these cases highlighted actually shows the abject amorality of the west including britain relations with super rich gulf states. both parties do this cosy relationship, but they can sort problems together and that the petrol dollar profits can keep flogging whatever happens. the truth is that the gulf states will do whatever they want as long as they
remain one of the markets for british arms and can assist in the west and perpetrating devastating prosecuting devastating wars against middle eastern nor and not african countries. due process of any kind ofjustice actually goes out of the window if countries such as the uae and saudi arabia do what they have in mind. meanwhile britain pretends to impose civilised values when in fact the west‘s entire value system is based on multi—billion dollar profits and the maintenance of security on its own terms. what do you make of donald trump's remarks this week that we are going to remain steadfast partners and says it doesn't matter whether of not crown prince knew about it. there is one thing you can say, the manager doesn't actually say without any diplomatic hailing about, what the truth of the relationship is which is very similar to what was just being said.
there has existed going back 50 years or more a perfect feedback loop. we give them money for oil, the ship a considerable amount back in forms of arms purchases and the us has never broken from that so when trump says we are going to buy $150 billion worth of arms, no such order exists. the usual trump lies and tweets and it does not matter because he is saying an essential fact that when he says if we do not trade with them somebody else will.
he does not mean britain, he means russian and china. russia will not trade with them because they train with iran and that will become a problem but china will trade with anyone. this props up the house of saudi and the continued acts like the average is essentially an absolute feudal monarchy and saudi arabia's economy as feudal, the money goes into the family and gets distributed to other tribes and people and this is what sustains the economy. unfortunately the harsh reality is the crown prince can it is alleged sent a hit squad to turkey and literally butcher a dissident journalist who was part of the insane group who was saying
in public you are not the reform of you used to be. —— the insider group. clarissa is now be considered for matthew hedges, it seems to have caught the nitish foreign office on the hop. these situations are so opaque that we don't actually know how much people knew what they knew and it is difficult to read these situations but it is on the face of it appalling and it is a very peculiar way for a country that considers itself to be an ally to behave. why would the british descending a secret agent to a country that is an ally? that is even any plausible pretext for doing so and they were not claiming he was an agent for some other country, for britain, something has gone seriously wrong. and that doesn't bode well for the long term relationship. the main arms dealer with the uae as france and salt for france to criticise the uae
is out of the question. if you are going to do by you have this marvellous model but it is a nastier human rights abuse because i never going to cover this protocol accused of prostitution, she got torture, no lawyer and only the intervention of the president... these poor indian workers and by who do not have a president or a foreign secretary, those are nasty places. this seems to be more susceptibility to public opinion now. the crown prince and saudi arabia has been a great end and i think that is because it was very bad optics in washington and so i think they are not involve a role to public opinion as we might once have thought. one other thing, and the case of donald trump he does so much personal business with all the gulf monarchs and the saudis and this is actually potentially dangerous
for him although i don't think he recognises it. the american constitution there is a section that works to try and prevent the creation of aristocracy and within that paragraph there is a clause which says the chief executive cannot profit personally from relations with other countries. qatar has taken out a massive lease on his son—in—law's trophy building losing vast sums of money is now they have guaranteed he will be in profit. the saudis whenever they are in washington... we're getting off the subject. the point is that there's no reason for donald trump to stand up to the saudis because he is it seems profiting from this. no previous american leader has either. never.
it's the unfinished business of europe's colonial past — the treasures from africa and asia held by the collections of empire. this week, the governor of easter island pleaded for the british museum in london to return one of its giant statues, taken by british soldiers in the 1850s as a gift for queen victoria. the governor said, "you have our soul". the museum has, though, announced it will loan another stolen treasure, the benin bronzes, to a museum in nigeria. on friday, a report commissioned from a french art historian and a senegalese writer, recommended that the law should be altered to the allow cultural works to be returned. it's big step forward, screw max reinthaler, they were stolen and should go back. this is a very dangerous and complex situation and what is at risk as the very idea of a global museum, it will resume in which cultures can be compared and displayed to a world audience, it is a kind of cultural ethnic cleansing in which everything has to go backward when it came from. will you carry it to the extent
of the italian renaissance paintings and america being sent back to italy? they were not stolen, they were bought. bought by very rich people, and there were many who would say that was a corrupt use of wealth. that is a difference between religious relics and burial remains, that is a different case but art objects if you are going to decide that art objects belong to the world that there is a benefit in the cross—cultural meeting, we are and to cultural things now... they were taken by military means and that is why
emmerson mnangagwa macron decided to to benin statues. the british museum have too many works of art. anyone who wants to see the great benin bronzes will have to go to nigeria. and that i think will be very important in the development if you do not give it back you also help this country to create a museum and kuate. the status of art stolen during european empires as part of a new ongoing process of decolonisation. decomposition does not just happened with a declaration, it goes on for decades and these are part of it all. the main difficulty in dealing with colonial art as it is worth millions and nobody likes to give up assets that are worth millions.
another important aspect is that gallery owners in the west believe that works are displayed in museums such as the louvre and will be seen by far more people and be safer than as opposed to be displayed and relatively isolated places in africa. louvre has opened up in abu dhabi and is going to build even more tourism, the rich get richer. it is the story of the gulf states. i do not think you can come up with a single view about returning art because every set of objects and state is different. that was the criticism that the director of the vna made when it was announced, it was a sort
of all guilty approach. everybody knows i am a liberal, i hate that word but if you think of some countries why not send to nigeria the benin bronzes for six months. on the other hand in never fantastic treasures destroyed by isis and in many parts of the world unfortunately the west is the cause for this and civility and you would have a point but nevertheless they are actually safer and it was part
of the treasure house of humanity of summarisation, all humanity and also rises and 8,000 years, then i'd rather they be kept safe in the subbasement of the louvre than be returned to a country that n ten years will overrun by civil war. you cannot decide who is innocent enough to hold the great works. why should all the rich tourists see? why should only rich tourists see it? and belongs to the national countries. you would have to be richer to go to nigeria to see the benin bronzes than to europe. if you are nigeria and belongs to you so why cant you see why do you have to go to the louvre? why can't you decide your great artworks belongs to the world, that this is no longer a kind of parochial concern and just your national interest? these constitute a world of comparative culture and if you destroy the idea of the comparative historical museum there will be no scope any longer
for cultures existing side by side. it belongs to the rich world. you may only rich people go to museums? yes and it is very important that the people of nigeria can see it and that this art is set back, it is not ours. is the solution a loan that sometimes never ends? on a more diplomatic approach that macron took when he pledged to return some of the works back to africa but you notice the only makes this kind of declaration during his trips to africa. do you want africa to disappear from the world cultural stage? that is a question we will have to leave the, thank you all very much. i hope we will not be sent back from whence we came. that's it for dateline
london for this week — we're back next week at the same time. goodbye. hello. fairly quiet on the weather front out there at the moment. looks like on sunday many of us will get at least a bit of sunshine, and certainly a lot better in the south of the country after what was a pretty wet saturday, especially in devon. this is what it looks like early hours of sunday morning, so most major towns and cities will be frost free. just a touch of frost outside of town here and there, particularly in the north—west. now, sunday itself will bring a fair bit
of cloud at times, and also some showers towards the north—east here. but as i say, a better day in the south, a little bit more brightness here. the best of the sunshine in some western and north—western areas here, and the winds are still blowing out of the east, where it is fairly cold. that means that temperatures were once again struggle a little bit on sunday, with highs no higher than around seven, say, 29 celsius. monday morning looks pretty nippy as well, with some mist and fog, but tuesday and wednesday turning a lot more u nsettled. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. i'm reged ahmad. our top stories: violence forces the postponement of one of south america's biggest football matches after the boca juniors team bus is attacked in buenos aires. theresa may prepares for the historic eu summit that's set to approve the draft brexit withdrawal deal.
she denies making concessions on gibraltar to prevent a boycott. the uk's position on the sovereignty of gibraltar has not changed and will not change. i am proud that gibraltar is british and i will always stand by gibraltar. riot police in paris fire tear gas and watercannon at demonstrators protesting over fuel prices. marvelling at a mummy: archaelogists in egypt unveil one of the best preserved relics found near the valley of the kings.
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