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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  April 14, 2019 2:30am-3:00am BST

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this is bbc news, the headlines: hello this is bbc news, representatives of protesters i'm lewis vaughan jones. in sudan have met military leaders there are signs that tensions in the capital, khartoum. between sudan's new leadership the meeting came in response to a call for dialogue made and protesters may now be softening. representatives of both by the country's third sides have held meetings. leader in as many days. and though demonstrators want a spokesman for the protesters told a civilian government, they say competent military figures the bbc they insisted might be acceptable. on the formation of it follows the ousting of long—time leader omar al—bashir. simonjones has the latest. a civilian government. the maltese navy has transferred more than 60 migrants from a german charity vessel to a maltese port after a number of other eu countries offered to take them in. still on the streets, having forced out two leaders in just two days. protesters have helped bring about the downfall of the country's long—term president, and then the man who led the coup india has observed the centenary of a massacre by british troops that's seen as one of the darkest incidents of the colonial era. on april the 13th, 1919, soldiers killed hundreds of unarmed people protesting against repressive laws in amritsar. now on bbc news, dateline london.
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hello and welcome to dateline london. i'm carrie gracie. this week, a whole six months for comedians to make brexit trick or treatjokes as the uk wins an eu extension until halloween. but who has a better plan on how to use the time? and benjamin netanyahu on the brink of a fifth term. will the israeli prime minister now annex parts of the west bank? my guests today, israel analyst jonathan sacerdoti, ian martin of the times, italian writer analisa piras, and abdel bari atwan, writer on arab affairs. welcome to you all.
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do not waste this time, said european council president donald tusk as the eu granted the uk a 6—month extension. but what constitutes time well spent in the context of brexit? ian, you first. let's look at a timeline for the next six months. i think we could usefully do that for everyone involved in brexit. so, for the next 10 days, mps have easter recess. now, are they going to use the time to reflect, as the prime minister suggested, or are they going to lie in a darkened room gorging on chocolate eggs? i think the latter, actually. i think that's what most people are going to do. anyone who has watched the farce of the last few months unfold, which has been like, as a friend of mine in america said because we can't have a third series of fawlty towers, this is the next best thing, this british farce. people in westminster are tired and stressed on both sides. and when people are tired and stressed, they do not necessarily make smart decisions. so a break is welcome,
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but when they come back, things will intensify quickly. there will be another attempt to try to get theresa may's deal over the line. it seems unlikely, not totally implausible, but unlikely that that will succeed. the six month limit is actually really rather clever by the european union. it is not so far away that the brits or the british political establishment can forget about it for eight, nine, ten months. it is close enough that minds do have to be concentrated, either in the next month or so, or in september, october. and remember, the crucial thing that is happening is you have the european elections. this is about much more thanjust britain. there are going to be a fascinating set of elections across europe, then the selection of a new european commission, president of the european commission, a whole new power structure and political dispensation in brussels and that, those people will then be negotiating with the brits again in september, october.
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we'll come back to that at the latter end of the timeline in a moment. jonathan, just on those cross—party talks you are alluding to there. that is in the prime minister's diary. it's in the oppostition leader's diary for the next few weeks. how much time will that take up, do you think? one would like to be a fly on the well in some of those meetings. i mean, we heard one of her own mps asking theresa may, when she was announced those discussions, between herself and jeremy corbyn why one week she was totally against him as a threat to national security and then asked what is the greater risk? she said this was all about balance and risk. why on earth would she try to usher in an era of government potentially, by what her own mp called a marxist anti—semite led labour party. i think she is going to continue
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to struggle with that. i do not see those talks going anywhere. what she is doing in those talks is allowing the whole thing to spin out longer and longer, knowing they won't come toan agreement, or if they do it and agreement that will destroy not only her own party, but the morale of 17.4 million people who voted to leave the eu. just on the timeline, how much of the next six months do you think that spin process, that you called it, will take? personally, i can't see it going on for much more than another week or two because i think this is going to be another technique that is going to fail for her. she will try and push through her deal again and will keep flogging that dead horse. she could potentially keep flogging the dead horse of discussions with jeremy corbyn as well, but it is so damaging to her that i cannot see her keeping that going. analisa, do you think those cross—party talks are going anywhere? i think so if common sense prevails. britain has become a farce,
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it has burned an international reputation for intelligence and pragmatism. and do what normal governments do, define a compromise between the physician and the government, a compromise is possible. so will they show pragmatism and intelligence? i think they have to. i do not think there is any more time to kick the can down the road, because the time for that has gone. so they need to find a compromise, a compromise is possible. if you look at the situation they could find a deal for which they accept, they would draw agreement from theresa may with a condition that the labour party has already defined to already put it back to their people. that would be a way to reconcile the country, stop this confrontation which has been damaging for everybody and find a solution
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that would possibly avoid the folly of going to the election of the european parliament when the country wants to get out. i am surprised, ian is talking that we could have a new european parliament. we could have a change of the hierarchy of the eu. we could have a new president, new staff. but are we going to have also the same theresa may by the 31st of october, for example? are we going to see changes in this country? are we going to see a change in the parliament itself, a different parliament? on the question of change of leadership, are you arguing the government should change its leader before it involves itself further in the process that analisa described as necessary, those cross—party compromise talks? yes. i believe theresa may failed to control her government,
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to control her party, to influence the country. failed also to deal with the parliament. she was rejected on her deal, rejected three times by the parliament. now she is talking to the opposition which is very late. if she cannot convince her party, if she cannot convince our parliament, if she cannot convince our government of any sort of ideal, do you think she will convince the opposition? i am absolutely... let me take that up. there are voices in her own party that says she has abjectly surrendered, it is time for a new leader. what do you think? i have been arguing for almost two years that theresa may should be replaced. britain is attempting to do something very difficult without a properly functioning prime minister, someone who can persuade, cajole. i have doubts about her deal but i think her deal is the best way forward, out is going to involve her deal as a basis of an exit.
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but she has failed to persuade her own party. i think she will... i think she will face lots of pressure to go but she seems determined at westminster and whitehall this week, certainly that was the gossip, that she is determined to stay. the cabinet in the uk doesn't seem strong enough to force her out. our view is that she wants to stay until the withdrawal agreement is done and just hopes that at some point in the next couple of months everyone in britain is so worn down by it that the deal or a tweaked version of the deal were some changes that live approve version of the deal with some changes that labour approve of gets britain out. martin we have a local
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election soon. predictions saying that conservative party will do badly in the election. i think she is like a cat with a seven lives, to be honest. i hope she is running out of these lives! that is the other thing. the sense that brexit might be lost. i voted for it and want to leave the european union. but if the conservative party fails to deliver brexit, the conservative party is broken. if the conservative party is broken in a largely 2—party system, that means that labour wins and labour is controlled byjeremy corbyn. so people are quite... across the spectrum, people are quite chastened by that. i wonder if that won't, post—easter, that might force people to reconsider their position and for diehards to vote for the deal. on coming back to our timeline, jonathan, we have the local elections and then we have
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the european elections, me 23rd. on friday we saw the brexit party launched with nigel farage. is that kind of revolution in prospect at these elections? who knows? is almost impossible. this party which is effectively what it is, it is depressing. yes it is a sign that politics is broken. this is a phrase we hear politicians saying when the do not know what to do. but politics is broken does not stop it or fix it. the re—emergence of nigel farage, who i'm no particularfan of but who is possible the most
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successful politician of his time. has managed to turn on its head, this idea of the uk being subservient to europe, he has brought about the referendum. he managed in large part for people to vote to leave the eu and now he is revealing again because he feels the party he used to represent as racist, bigoted and disorganised. we have to see how much of that was his leadership, whether he encouraged it are tolerated. i do not think his party will be the saviour of politics in this country. it will be interesting to see what happens. and jacob rees—moog's sister coming up as the respectable voice of nigel farage. this certainly seems to be making their circus something of a 3—ring circus. i do not know what is going to happen, nobody knows. at the end of the day, that is the feeling of all of our politicians. they have led us to a circumstance where nobody at all, anyone knows what's happening when it is happening. and that makes planning one's life, whether it is taxation,
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what you own, selling your house, where to live, what nationality today identify with, makes it impossible. that makes it difficult for leavers and remainers. contingency planning, the prime minister has said she does not want to hold the european elections on may the 23rd. that means as we stand in mid april, people have got to plan contingency on an election that the prime minister want to have. we have a prolonged no deal cliff, it is prolonged by six months, but it is still there, business is saying. the elections cost a lot of money and to bring the first to that point with a country that wants to go out. to spend a lot of money in a country whose growth has come to an halt. there are serious problems, to hold this would be ridiculous. i think that is also another pressure on the political classes of britain, to show intelligence and pragmatism. a cross—party agreement must be
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found before that becomes a reality because then that would simply complicate things further. analisa, thank you. we are going to leave brexit there. we are going to leave it for next week as well. if mps can have a brexit recess and so can we on dateline. barring major developments on the brexit story we will take a break next week from it. right now we are going to move on to israel and the middle east. in congratulating israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu last week, donald trump said his election victory promised good action on peace between israel and palestinians. does it? some of israel's staunch friends in us politics warn that mr netanyahu's campaign pledge to annex parts of the west bank will lead to greater conflict. jonathan, i am going to go to you first. some of our viewers may not have followed the israeli election closely, they may not have followed the result closely. can you give us a thumbnail
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of where it lives as? the prime minister benjamin netanyahu is now is entering another term of office when there was an extremely strong effort to get rid of him. that was an effort led by a little group of well respected army leaders and politicians who grip together with the sole purpose of getting rid of him. going back to the trump peace deal proposal which nobody has seen perhaps firm benjamin netanyahu. —— except perhaps benjamin netanyahu. we know that in benjamin netanyahu, why did they vote for this man who is up against corruption charges during the term of office he is going to enter. the country is sick of in many ways, it is unusual to enter your 13th year of office.
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why did israelis vote for him again? they see in him a man who has stood up to the us president as he did with obama and after obama's term of office ——he stood up for trump when he spokein ——he stood up for trump when he spoke in congress on obama's doorstep. he spoke to him when he went to congress. he has stood up to us presidents who do not seem good for israel and he has shown that he is a great friend of the current us president. should there be a prospect for peace in the trump deal, he will be able to work with the president to bring that about. whatever is in the sealed envelope of the trump, he has reduced the number of rockets and terror attacks on the whole. made relations with arab on the whole. made relations with ara b states on the whole. made relations with arab states in the area under the
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radar. also knows how to deal with good and president that us presidents good and bad so perhaps he is their man. the collapse of the right left and liberal labour? that is partly because the left has lost its way in israel. they did not in this campaign represent their best policies. they had their vote stolen by the blue—and—white party, the new party that did not exist last year. which was really a coalition of famous figures to get rid of benjamin netanyahu. something they failed to do. they did manage to decimate the left and steal away votes from the labour party. now down to a handful of seats in the knesset, utterly disastrous for them. shifting uneasily and a couple of the things thatjonathan was saying, where does this election result leave palestinians and indeed response from the arab world wider? first when donald trump,
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the leader of the biggest power on earth is working for you as your campaign director, when actually you are supported by the extremist right—wing population, i think it is easy to win this election. i believe benjamin netanyahu is more dangerous to israelis themselves than palestinians. to be honest. he is now going to destroy the image of israel as the only democracy in the middle east to an apartheid state. what do you mean? when he endorsed and he said he will implement the nation state which consider israel as a state of the jews only. four anybody who is not a jew wouldn't have estate.
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it doesn't absolutely say that other minorities... it is documented. he said israel is a state of the jews. non— jews are not actually citizens of this state. it is written. sorry, it is nonsense. is the economist lying? he never said that. shall wejust accept that there are non—jewish citizens of the state of israel? there are 20% of the population of israel. he has voted in... crosstalk. without the occupied west bank, all the gaza strip, 20% of its citizens are palestinian arabs, christians and muslims. he has not said they are not citizens. of course he hasn't. crosstalk. he
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said that and i can prove it to you i'iow. i will show you what he said exactly. second thing, he is going to annex the west bank. this is something that we... can check that we can agree, we cannot agree on that on the assertion that those citizens of the state of israel who are notjews... we cannot agree a mean, jonathan is not agreeing that he says... he is not agreeing. but it is documented. what we can agree on is that benjamin neta nyahu has pledged to annex... parts of the west bank. what he said during the election campaign and i urge most people to take with a pinch of salt what politicians say two days before an election, he said
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that he would like to imposejewish law in thejewish settlements. which have always, in every peace plan, ben assumed to remain under israeli rule, whether or not they have been returned for land swaps. —— been assumed. he would not justify the forced removal of those towns are people. that is very controversial because it upsets people who want to see a like for like land swap, certain borders that they want. we are talking about effectively 2% of the west bank area wherejews live. he may be compromised that, he may be given that by trump, we do not know. wright what is necessary in order to deal with those things is negotiations. for rather a long time, including with trump, the palestinian authority has refused to discuss with the white house what they would like. they have said no.
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the palestinians are possibly the only national independence party that have said no to their own state. jonathan, if you can stop there. i want to hear that what the palestinian responses and what the arab world responses to the of the election of benjamin netanyahu. first, this nation state law, it is written and it is they are and it is documented. we are not going to argue that. second thing, benjamin netanyahu is going to annex the west bank. what it means four major areas of the west bank which is... it means that the death of the two state system. —— solution. there would not be any state for the palestinian. it is recognised this solution. neta nyahu is saying i don't want this. what are the palestinians going to do about it? what are parts of the arab world going to do about it? the palestinians, they do not
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have nuclear warheads like benjamin netanyahu and israel. second, they do not have the fourth biggest army on earth. they do not have the support of the international community, the united states, the biggest super power on earth. so what you expect the palestinians to do? they should be helped by the international community, by the europeans, by the americans, to say to the israelis, enough is enough. you are killing a two state solution which is recognised by everybody on earth. you are establishing an apartheid state in israel! what is being done by the arab region at the moment? benjamin netanyahu was well received. oh man is two million and the arabs, 400 million. we cannot see that he is winning
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the arabs onto his side. now there is a huge change in the arab world. there is revolution, popular revolution in algeria, popular revolution in sudan and other places. the middle east is changing. now, netanyahu is re—creating, re—establishing re—encouraging radicalisation in the arab world. this is the danger. we don't usually agree on these questions but i think that the election result, which has actually had very little attention outside the region, really because it wasn't a story that the western media was hoping for or expecting which was that benjamin netanyahu having his career ended.
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but i think his victory is a tragedy and a potential geo—strategic catastrophe because the attempt to unseat him was a manifestation of another israel, the other israel which can through its military and civil society, can see that the benjamin netanyahu's die—hard approach is leading israel to a very dangerous place. i think there is a case for saying that the trump plan, can then broker deals elsewhere in the region. but i think people will be disappointed. it is a deal hatched together by the american ambassador to israel and donald trump's son—in—law. it will create a backlash which will have serious consequences indeed. can i bring analisa in? it would be helpful for our viewers to have a look at the political situation which is a worry and are concerned. we are talking about
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a prime minister who is going to be indicted in the next few months. we have heard that the international community must do something. we have heard a bit about a trump plan. a few words on what the eu, which has traditionally played a traditional role in the middle east. what can europe do, is there a role for europe? is it doing anything? the european union for 25 years has supported the peace accord which would create a two state solution. it has been suffering a setback when trump recognised jerusalem as the new capital. the eu has pushed for a diplomatic solution. that was a controversial solution. at the moment the european union is in a fragile situation, also because of brexit. what we are witnessing is the biggest defender of the two state solution in israel, palestine, is very weak
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and very determined but unable to do anything. there, i'm afraid, everybody, we will have to leave it. this is something we will come back to in the next months and weeks. that's it for dateline london for this week — we're back next week at the same time. goodbye. hello. it's turning warmer in the week ahead but if anything, sunday will feel colder than it did on saturday. frost for many of us to begin the day but early sunshine. cloud will increase and any early showers in kent should fade. most places staying dry. there is a weather front lurking to the west and for the isles of scilly,
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cornwall, pembrokeshire, western parts of northern ireland, you could see patchy rain. a stronger easter south—easterly wind with temperatures in single figures for many of us. it will feel quite chilly for the time of year. a bit of frost around for some of us, sunday night into monday morning. not as widespread and the further west you are, you could see patchy rain. that still around three monday affecting parts of south england, wales and northern ireland. elsewhere, some spiny spells, some cloud around, showers affecting eastern scotland — make sunny spells. temperatures up slightly but breezy and much warmer as the week goes on —— sunny breezy and much warmer as the week goes on —— sunny spells.
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