tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News September 11, 2019 10:00am-11:00am BST
hello it's wednesday, it's 10:00. i'm victoria derbyshire. in exclusive interviews, two former chelsea youth footballers tell this programme they were subjected to horrific and sustained racial abuse in the 1990s. i was coming in scared to make a mistake. even on the pitch it affected me because i couldn't relax. i was thinking if i have a bad game and i come in everybody walking around saying, "you black this, you black that". i didn't enjoy my football and i was in fear of everything. what's going on at the top of the labour party? yesterday the boss jeremy corbyn said this: we are ready for that election. we
are ready to unleash the biggest people powered campaign we have ever seenin people powered campaign we have ever seen in this country and in this movement. applause. and in that election we will commit toa and in that election we will commit to a public vote with a credible option to leave and the option to remain. yet right about now in a speech his deputy is going to completely contradict him. if you're a labour voter what do you think? and a new report says children with special educational needs are more likely to be excluded from school. we'll talk to single mum of six, mandy headley. three of her children are still at school and they all have special educational needs. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11:00 this morning. we defeintely want to hear from you if you are a labour
supporter this moring — do you agree with the leader or the deputy? tom watson is likely to say in a speech this morning that labour in a speech this morning that labour should be a party of remain and a further referendum should come before an general elction, so brexit is dealt with. or do you agree with the leader who said earlier this week that he wants an election first then a referdum and labour would offer what mr corbyn calls a "credible leave option" and remain. which one works for you as a labour voter? get in touch in the usual ways. also this morning, a horrible mystery illness affecting dogs is sweeping norway and has so far killed 25 dogs, including this beautiful irish setter, bianca. we'll talk to bianca's owner
and find out what could be causing the deaths. first annita mcveigh has the news. two former chelsea youth players have told this programme they were regularly subjected to racist abuse, while at the club in the 905. the two former youth—team players were speaking out for the first time since chelsea published a report into the scandal in august. these words are spoken by an actor. itjust escalated and got worse. it was like, "have you been robbing old grannies?" "did you go to school today?" "yeah, i did." "oh, that's a rarity." it was just a barrage of racism, you know. labour's deputy leader, tom watson, will contradictjeremy corbyn today, by arguing the party must back remain and campaign for another referendum before a general election. yesterday, mr corbyn said his party would promise another referendum, with both leave and remain on the ballot paper, but he didn't say which option a future labour government would support. the government is to allow
international students studying at uk universities to stay in the country for two years after graduating. the announcement from the home office reverses a decision made by theresa may as home secretary in 2012, which forced foreign students to leave the country within four months of completing their degree. there are currently 450,000 overseas students in the uk. a total of 86 migrants have been picked up by the border force after crossing the channel in small boats, which is believed to be a record numberfor a single day. it's thought calm conditions at sea and a threat by the french authorities to evict migrants from their makeshift shelters, may be partly behind the increase yesterday. the home office says it's working with the french authorities to tackle dangerous and illegal activity. record numbers of children in england and wales are being approached online for sex, according to the nspcc. data obtained from 43 police forces show that there were more than 4,000 recorded offences of sexual communication with a child in the year to april 2019.
that's up a third on the previous year. the bbc has found the proportion of police prosecutions for attacks and abuse against gay and lesbian people has fallen in the last five years, despite an increase in the number of recorded crimes. figures from forces in england, wales and northern ireland have revealed a rise in homophobic incidents from nearly 6,000 in 2015 to more than 13,500 as of april this year. a record number of chain stores disappeared from britain's high streets in the first half of this year, according to new research. the report by the accountancy firm pwc and the local data company, shows that on average, 16 stores a day closed, as retailers restructured their businesses, and more shopping moved online. fashion retailers saw the biggest declines in the period,
followed by restaurants, estate agents and pubs. that is a simile of our main news today, back to you, victoria. thank you very much. in exclusive interviews with this programme, two former chelsea youth footballers have called for personal apologies from the club after they claim they were subjected to racist abuse there in the 905. one has told us how, as a 12 year—old schoolboy, he was the victim of such abuse by former chelsea assistant manager, gwyn williams. the ex—players are speaking for the first time since the club published a barnardo‘s report into racism at the club during the 80s and 90s back in august. the two players did not contribute to the report because, they say, as it was paid for by chelsea, they had worries about its independence. talking anonymously to our reporter jim reed, they say the club didn't go far enough in reacting to the report and they want a face—to—face apology. and to let you know, jim's film has some strong and offensive racist language from the start. we've included it because we think it's important to accurately reflect the language these players say
they were subjected to. the former players are are portrayed by actors in this film, which lasts just under seven minutes. football was just natural to me. so for me to come to a football club and to do something that i love and to experience racism was mad. it was feral. the club was feral. no other club was like it. an investigation called it a dog eat dog world where bullying was widespread. former academy director gwyn williams was described last month as the instigator of racial abuse at chelsea. a report for the club by the charity barnardos found young black players were subjected to abhorrent racial abuse on a regular basis in the 19805 and ‘905. that investigation was triggered after former youth team players launched legal claims against the club in 2017. two of those players have now given interviews for the first time. they want to remain anonymous
so their words are being read by young actors. a warning some of the language you're about to hear is raci5t and incredibly offensive. i remember the first time i met him. he said, "here's your £3, you little coon." he said how big my lips were. how big my nose wa5. that was my first encounter. i was12. i was shocked and i was like, i didn't know how to react. i mean, who would at that age? for me it was coon, nig—nog, black bustard. i didn't even know all those words. and for the people running the club to be instigating racism like it was cool to say those sort of things, that was... yeah, that was crazy to me. the chelsea sides of the 19805 and ‘905 featured talented black players. at senior level, there's no suggestion of abuse that young
player5 say their experience was a very different one. the youngest trained here in battersea park in south london on a thursday evening. i was coming in scared to make a mistake. even on the pitch it affected because i couldn't relax. i was thinking if i have a bad game, i'd come in and everybody would be walking around saying, "you black this" or "you black that". i didn't enjoy my football. i was in fear of everything. itjust e5calated and got worse. it was like, "have you been robbing old grannies? "did you go to school today?" "yeah, i did." "oh, that's a rarity." it was just a barrage of racism, you know? gwyn williamsjoined chelsea in 1979 a5 a youth development officer and rose up to assistant manager before leaving the club in 2006. his lawyer wrote to chelsea denying any and all allegations of racism. he claimed the extracts of the report shown to him were bia5ed, untrue, unfair and artificial. but the investigation team heard
substantial evidence of a toxic raci5t environment that had long lasting effects on the players involved. this was relentle55. this was daily. and when it's happening to you every day, it 5trip5 you of all your self—worth and confidence, even to the point where i had suicidal thoughts in my teen5. i was in a bad way at 17, going out, trying drink, trying drugs, which i never did before. it got to the point where i didn't want to talk about football. ijust didn't want to know about football. the report also looked into allegations against another coach at the club, former england international graham rix. it found, while he could be aggressive and bullying, the authors did not see evidence of racism. the two players we've spoken to decided not to take part in the review, as it was paid for by chelsea and they had worries about its independence. but as teenagers they're both sure they saw graham rix
u5e racist language. he came out with his coffee, and he said, "did you go out this weekend?" isaid, "yeah, i did." he said, "oh, did you 5hag any of our white girls?" and iju5t thought i have had enough of this. so i said, "yeah, i did." and he went quiet. and i could see his face go a little red. and he said, "if that was my daughter, i'd lynch you." and i said, "well, maybe one day it might be." but i wanted to kill him. graham rix'5 lawyer gave a statement to the review denying he was bullying, aggressive or racist. he pointed out that many parties who gave evidence did not recall him saying anything which was racially abusive. both former players we've spoken to said they felt it was impossible to report the abuse at the time. the club had no safeguarding policy in place. there was no other official to turn to.
i didn't say nothing to my parents because i didn't want to stop my football dream. i knew the minute i said anything, my dad would go down and it would be a problem, sort of thing. so it was hard. i mean, who were you going to talk to? there was nothing. nothing in place. the investigation la5t month concluded there was substantial evidence of raci5t abuse by williams. the two players we've spoken to talk about how their lives were deeply affected and how their careers could have been very different at another club. it took me to some dark places. i have to take medication at times. i've been depressed, withdrawn. i couldn't come to terms with what had happened. to be honest, i still feel angry. i still feel huge amounts of anger. they said all these pretty little things to our parents and as soon as we got into it, it was just like living ina nightmare. well, it's as simple as that as far as i'm concerned, because they've changed us as young
adults growing up. in 2006 gwyn williams left chelsea and joined leed5. he was sacked after sending explicit photos to the club receptionist. graham rix was jailed in 1999 for having sex with a 15—year—old girl. he was reinstated by chelsea after his release from prison and was the first team coach when the team won the fa cup that year. he went on to manage a number of clubs including portsmouth and hearts. chelsea has now apologised to those who suffered what it describes as the deeply shocking behaviour by gwyn williams found by the investigation. the men we've spoken to say the club needs to go much further. they're accu5ing it of trying to cover up the scandal by publishing the findings on the same day as a second report into sexual abuse by another individual at the club decade5 earlier. they now want a full face to face apology from chelsea and they want people higher up at the club at the time to admit they let young players down.
i want to bring you this breaking news. a scottish court has ruled bori5 johnson's news. a scottish court has ruled bori5johnson‘5 decision to suspend parliament is illegal. scottish lawmakers say all three judges in scotland's highest court of appeal have ruled the suspension of parliament, the prorogation i5 unlawful. potentially, there will be an appeal to the highest court in the land, the supreme court and that could be on tuesday. but that breaking news, dramatic news, given that two previous court cases have suggested that bori5johnson‘5 suspension is not unlawful. this today, scottish court ruling that bori5 johnson's today, scottish court ruling that bori5johnson‘5 decision to suspend parliament is illegal. all three judges in scotland's has court of
appeal saying the closure parliament i5 appeal saying the closure parliament is unlawful. we will talk to our correspondent who is making her way out of the court, we will talk to lorna gordon a5 out of the court, we will talk to lorna gordon as soon as she is ready and we will bring you lots of reaction, as you would expect, during the programme this morning. what does that mean in practical term5? your reaction is very welcome. you can send a message on twitter a5 welcome. you can send a message on twitter as well. use the hashtag victoria life. right, back to our top story today. both mr williams and mr rix maintain their denials of any wrongdoing. mr rix'5 lawyer points out that both the fa and the disclosure and barring service have looked into the allegations and there are no restrictions in place on his client. chelsea re—i55ued the statement that they released at the time of the barnardo'5 report on racism at the club last month: "as a club we want to apologise to all players who experienced this deeply shocking behaviour. we are doing, and will continue
to do, everything we can to ensure that those boys, girl5, men and women who play for this club, and indeed anyone who works for or with the club, will never have to endure the terrible experiences which these young players suffered." we can speak now to mickey ambrose, 58—year—old former footballer and football 5cout who played for chelsea during the 805 and sean wharton, former player and manager, who was at sunderland in the youth setup during the late 19805 and has coached in wales. he now works for show raci5m the red card giving talks and classes on racism. welcome to both of you. i wonder for oui’ welcome to both of you. i wonder for our younger welcome to both of you. i wonder for oui’ younger viewers welcome to both of you. i wonder for our younger viewers and there are many of them, if you could tell them what it was like in the late 805, mid to late 805 when you were a player in terms of raci5t abu5e? mid to late 805 when you were a player in terms of racist abuse? to be honest, at a young age back then, you wanted to be a professional footballer. women's football is the fa5te5t footballer. women's football is the fastest growing 5port footballer. women's football is the fastest growing sport and the girls are doing fantastically well. when i was eight, i wrote to chelsea and i
got a letter back saying u nfortu nately you got a letter back saying unfortunately you cannot have a trial. i saw the logo and i thought wow! but as a young footballer, he wa nted wow! but as a young footballer, he wanted a trial for chelsea or any other club you like. being brought up other club you like. being brought up in the west end, it was one of my dreams. i had ray wilkin5 and pele, my football dad. i wanted to be a footballer. what we enjoyed and what we are still seeing now has come back again, for some strange reason, 5ociety ju5t back again, for some strange reason, 5ociety just doesn't understand back again, for some strange reason, societyju5t doesn't understand what the hell ethnic minority people go through and in particular with football, we have seen it on social media now, but back then you work all things. was it on a par with what the two young ex—players have 5aid what the two young ex—players have said today? definitely. no doubt about it. i am not here to smooth overfor about it. i am not here to smooth over for anybody, i am telling you
now, those situations, in my experiences of seeing it and what i was called, did happen. let me bring you in, in terms of your own experience, how do you think it co m pa re5 experience, how do you think it co m pa res to experience, how do you think it compares to britain in 2019?” experience, how do you think it compares to britain in 2019? i have to resonate with everything that has been said so far. i had similar experiences and i am sure there lots of players who will have experienced similar things across the uk, wanting to be professional footballers. you have two battle to be the best you wanted to be, you had a battle ofjoining football clubs, you had a battle of you know, being with a coach and trying to impress a coach. you had a battle of trying to get into the first team and then the battle of experiencing racism from potentially your own fans and other fans. it was extremely difficult for all players
within the 805 and 90s. i am not surprised by the story and it takes great confidence for them to speak out as they have. how did you deal with it, mickey at the time?|j out as they have. how did you deal with it, mickey at the time? i think my late mother taught me a lot about racism. i remember when i was cro55ing racism. i remember when i was crossing the road, my late brother, age of five going to primary school and a carwent age of five going to primary school and a car went past and called me a late so and so. i told the teacher and she did know how to explain it and she did know how to explain it and she did know how to explain it and she said speak to your mother. my and she said speak to your mother. my mother brought me up with great morals and i took it. what did your mum 5ay morals and i took it. what did your mum say to you, you have got to take it? she said child, ignore it. brush it? she said child, ignore it. brush it off and ignore it. be more trying to make a name for yourself, let your football do the talking on the pitch. ye5, coming off the pitch and going into training, when comments
are made and if you think bullying somebody is the best to get the best out of somebody, then you are going down the wrong road. if you are using racial terms, that is even worse. is that the advice now, brush it off or should it be called out? it takes confidence, everybody is different. you have to appreciate your skin colour, nationality or religion, you have different personalities, you need to be a confident person to stand up against racism. it is everybody's responsibility, including yours, victoria, everybody in society. you have to be anti—racist and to put the pressure on one person or individual is wrong. the advice i would give, speak to somebody who is close to you, sometimes you have to choose your battles to fight another day. that was a case for myself. i was fighting nearly every week when i was was fighting nearly every week when iwasa was fighting nearly every week when i was a young apprentice. you have
too have evidence and not accept this behaviour and in order to do that, you have to fight, you have to battle. in recent months, chelsea have been really strong when it comes to antiraci5m, whether it is against black players, whether it is aboutjewish against black players, whether it is about jewish supporters, they against black players, whether it is aboutjewi5h supporters, they really have, they have called it out, they have, they have called it out, they have called the fans who engage in that, morons, effectively. are they an example of how clubs should be dealing with it in 2019? definitely. chel5ea, if i can say that, i believe are showing the way of how to deal, not manage the situation, but deal with it. the owner did take fan5, but deal with it. the owner did take fans, who were chanting anti—semitic chant5, they were doing that and he took them to auschwitz, to maybe educate them. there are different ways chelsea are dealing with it. as a club, they cannot afford their
brand and other clubs brands around the world, to be putting up with it. they are dealing with it in the best way they can, whether it is a life ban. we saw the incident with raheem sterling at chelsea, so they are dealing with it and showing the way for other clubs. it is calling it out. it is up to the premier league and the fa to come together. why can't they sort this out and i think chelsea are doing a magnificentjob 110w chelsea are doing a magnificentjob now in dealing with it. i don't know what happened back then, but the new hierarchy are leading the way. thank you both very much. thank you for coming in the programme. let's bring you more on the breaking news in the la5t you more on the breaking news in the last few minutes. a court in edinburgh has ruled that bori5johnson‘5 suspension of parliament is unlawful. let's talk to norman smith. how will people react to this in government?
there have been the man already that parliament should now be immediately recalled. you remember bori5johnson stunned many at westminster by announcing this lengthy suspension of parliament for five weeks until 0ctober of parliament for five weeks until october the 14th which means at this critical moment, parliament has shut up critical moment, parliament has shut up shop and has been forced into compulsory hibernation. now, the court in edinburgh has ruled, no, thati5 court in edinburgh has ruled, no, that is unlawful. although mp5 are demanding that parliament is recalled forthwith, i think there is 110w recalled forthwith, i think there is now going to be an appeal which will be heard, it is understood on tuesday. why that matters is because time is moving on. if the appeal is heard on tuesday, we will already be into the party conference 5ea5on. heard on tuesday, we will already be into the party conference season. in other words, it may be too late by then to recall parliament. so how then to recall parliament. so how the legal system response to this
ruling is absolutely pivotal in term5 ruling is absolutely pivotal in terms of the timetable. becau5e ruling is absolutely pivotal in terms of the timetable. because it seems if we get to tuesday and parliament has not been recalled by then, mp5 may have to carry on with then, mp5 may have to carry on with the party conference 5ea5on, even though there were 5ugge5tion5 if parliament had been sitting, they would have cancelled it. but another way of calibrating this, yet again bori5johnson has way of calibrating this, yet again boris johnson has been way of calibrating this, yet again bori5johnson has been forced onto the back foot over brexit. he has suffered numerou5 rever5e5 at the hands of mp5 and now another reverse at the hands of the courts and there i5 at the hands of the courts and there is another court case he is facing from gina miller, who defeated there5a may in the courts, al5o seeking to declare the prorogation of parliament are legal. so far, no response from downing street. news, i5 response from downing street. news, is news to them also and they have gone away to think how they will respond. i imagine their response i5, respond. i imagine their response is, we will appeal and then we will decide what to do once that appeal i5 decide what to do once that appeal is heard on tuesday. in the
meantime, while we wait for tuesday, i5 parliament 5u5pended meantime, while we wait for tuesday, i5 parliament suspended or not? meantime, while we wait for tuesday, is parliament suspended or not?” think it does. i think the legal process will have to follow through, which means no final outcome or decision can be made until the appeal is heard. so this is, if you like, and initial judgment appeal is heard. so this is, if you like, and initialjudgment but it is subject to an appeal and until the legal process has gone through the supreme court, it seems to me that bori5johnson supreme court, it seems to me that boris johnson can stand supreme court, it seems to me that bori5johnson can stand back and say well, i am still waiting for the appeal. in other words, well, i am still waiting for the appeal. in otherwords, parliament will not be recalled. i am seeing p i ctu res will not be recalled. i am seeing pictures on twitter of a victoriou5 joanna cherry, an snp outside the court of justice in joanna cherry, an snp outside the court ofju5tice in the last few moments. i am going to talk to lorna gordon, or inside the court. what is the reason that has been given these judges? we have a summary of their opinion, it was a very short hearing and lasted ju5t
opinion, it was a very short hearing and lasted just a few minutes. we are expecting a fulljudgment on friday. but what it comes down to is this... the lord president in the summary, this... the lord president in the summary, 5aid this... the lord president in the summary, said although the advice to her majesty the queen and the exercise of the royal prerogative and probing or 5u5pending parliament was not reviewable on the normal grounds ofjudicial was not reviewable on the normal grounds of judicial review, was not reviewable on the normal grounds ofjudicial review, it would be neverthele55 unlawful if its purpose was to 5tymie parliamentary scrutiny of the executive, which is a central pillar of the good governance principle enshrined in the constitution. that, in essence, i5 the constitution. that, in essence, is why these judges have ruled the constitution. that, in essence, is why thesejudges have ruled it unlawful. the second of those three judges said, this is an egregious ca5e judges said, this is an egregious case of a clear failure to comply with generally accepted standards of behaviour of public authority. and then the third judge says, that the circum5tance5, particularly the
length of the prorogation, showed the purpose was to prevent such 5crutiny. the purpose was to prevent such scrutiny. the only inference that can be drawn from the government's action is that the government and the prime minister wish to restrict parliament. joanna cherry and some of the other petitioner5, a group of more than 70 parliamentarians and peers who brought this case to the court of session here in edinburgh, made some comments outside of court. she believed this was one of the mo5t she believed this was one of the most important judgments in centuries, 5he most important judgments in centuries, she said. talking about what they want to happen now is that they said they are calling for parliament to be recalled, if not by tomorrow, then by monday at the latest, head of the supreme court hearing. i am just latest, head of the supreme court hearing. i amjust reading latest, head of the supreme court hearing. i am just reading some m e55a 9 e5 hearing. i am just reading some messages and reaction on twitter. 0ne qc, we believe the effect of this decision this morning is that
parliament is no longer prorogued. i don't know if that means mp5 might be getting on trains from their constituencies a5 be getting on trains from their constituencies as we speak, more reaction later but thank you lorna gordon, who was at that court hearing where, in the last ten minutes, threejudges have ruled that bori5 johnson's minutes, threejudges have ruled that bori5johnson'5 suspension of parliament, this idea of closing it for five weeks is unlawful. quite a few delighted people on twitter. your reaction, really welcome. chris 5ay5, your reaction, really welcome. chris says, at last, 5omeone realises democracy is being eroded in front of our eyes. paula says, having just heard, shutting down parliament is illegal and the parliament of the uk i5 illegal and the parliament of the uk is in westminster and it is for the uk's supreme court in london to make a judgment. the opponents are brexit are doing everything in their power to stop a democratic decision taken
lawfully. you are right, polar, it will be hurt in the uk supreme court, the highest court in the land, on tuesday. keep your reaction coming in. keir starmer5ays, iam plea5ed coming in. keir starmer5ays, iam pleased with this result but i am 5urprised because for a court to make this decision is a huge thing. it vindicate5 what happened last week. more reaction to come, as i said. children with special educational needs and disabilities, or ‘send' — are more likely to be permanently excluded from school, according to a new report. the national audit office says local authorities are coming under "growing financial pressure" as the demand for supporting school pupils with the greatest needs ri5e5. and labour's shadow minister for children, steve reed, say5 children are suffering "lasting damage". we can speak now to mandy headley, a single mum of six, with three children of school—age who all have special educational needs. sophie killingley has two children, one who is currently receiving special educational support from their local council. and councillor david simmonds, from the local government association, which represents councils.
thank you for coming on the programme. six children, three of whom are school age. tell us about mcauley, your fifth and whom are school age. tell us about mcauley, yourfifth and is 12, what conditions does he have? he has autism, pathological demand avoidance, adhd, emotional and dysregulation and anxiety. what is that? he finds it difficult to calm himself or know what to do, so he can get highly distressed because his anxiety levels are so high, he cannot self regulate so he needs a lot of help and support to help him regulate. how easy or otherwise has it been to make sure he has the help at school? school has been very, very challenging and very difficult. schooling itself is a massive demand for someone with pathological demand avoidance. that means he doesn't
wa nt to avoidance. that means he doesn't want to go to school? just getting him to school is a battle. getting up him to school is a battle. getting up in the morning is a demand, getting dressed, washed, eating is at the man, drinking is a demand. just the day is full of demands before he even reaches school. so when he actually gets there, he needs a lot of support and help and this is where he has been failed. a lot of his placements have broke down and he has been out of education for 12 months. he has been out of education for 12 months. he has been excluded twice, once from mainstream, and once from a specialist secondary provision. so, when he was excluded from the secondary provision, there was nothing available for mccauley, no schools in the local area to meet his needs. so he was at home, for a year? yes, i said i was knocked in a position to home school, i have other children and adults with needs, so it was very challenging for me as a parent, it was extremely
traumatic for mccauley, because he felt unwanted, what was wrong with him, why did nobody want him, he is still living the trauma to this day. let me bring in sophie, you have faced... thank you for your patience, you face particular battle trying to get support for your daughter, from the council. my daughter, from the council. my daughter has asperger‘s, ast, and she was promised transport from the council to get her into school. —— asd. she has a legal document, ehcp. the council refused to give her the transport even though they promised it, and the school gives her excellent support but we have had to fight every moment of the way, and the council, we had to resort to threatening legal action in order to get them to actually uphold the promises. it was extremely stressful. what was the reason they we re stressful. what was the reason they were saying they would not provide transport? they did not give a particular reason. could it be about
money? budget cuts, yes, they said they would not be able to give her transport past may, and so we had to go for legal action. the solicitors letters. we had to pay our way full which was stressful and unnecessary because the legally binding document said that they would give transport and then they went back on that. said that they would give transport and then they went back on thatm this report today, there is a lot of high quality care from councils, spending a lot of money on it, and in 2017/18, children accounted for 45% of permanent exclusions, 43% of fixed term exclusions, councils are failing to support children in need, is that fair? we have many brilliant special education needs schools that can improve the life chances of children but the system is facing challenges, there is not enough money, what we have heard is symptomatic of a system where central government has not funded
local authorities, 61p in every pound has been lost from central government funding for all the services they provide, they are now reaching the point where they simply do not have enough money in the rainy day fund, because it is carrying on reining, to keep some of those things going. the department for education say, helping all children and young people reach their potential is one of the core aims of this government, including those with and is an extra £700 million is going to be committed next year to make sure these children get an education that helps them develop and thrive with adults. we will put families at the heart of the system and give them better choice, whether in mainstream or special school, last week we launched a review of these forms to make sure that every child everywhere gets an education that prepares them for success. 0bviously, prepares them for success. obviously, it is a new administration with a new prime minister, do you have faith that the review will lead to improvements for your kids? no faith whatsoever, it is... we hear that this is going to
happen, this is going to happen, nothing happens, the system is com pletely nothing happens, the system is completely broken, kids are failed on every level, access to education, the right to put money in education, are supposed to be a collaborative approach. —— ehcps are supposed to bea approach. —— ehcps are supposed to be a collaborative approach. these plans are not fit for purpose, so you get the plan, the right support is not put in the plan and then you have another battle to try to get the right support within that plan, so the child's placement does not break down and unfortunately things are not written in the right sections of the ehcp. do you have faith? my experience is that the ehcp has been helpful to my children and they have received support, but, it is because i have had to threaten legal action and we have also had to pay a lot of money for private reports in order to get the ehcp in
the first place, it has been very expensive. for an occupational assessment, £400, for one hours assessment. we had £500 in solicitors fees. so, it has been very expensive and a fight to get every piece of support that we have got. is itjust about money? more money for the government? 700 million, the statement for the department for education is saying, that will help, is that enough? more money will help, taking the example of transport to school, councils like north yorkshire spent over £50 million over a two—year period transporting children to school, absolutely enormous cost and this announcement does not contribute anything towards that. the other big factor, you refer to it, the number of children with special educational needs excluded from mainstream schools, we want to see children having the opportunity for a good quality education alongside other children. what seems to be happening, particularly with the
rise of academies, schools are saying they do not want send in their children because they are concerned about the impact on the league table position, it is a disgrace that we see nearly half of the exclusions involving children with special educational needs, that support is entitled to them by law, we need to hold schools to account to make sure it is delivered. thank you very much, we appreciate your time. big political stories, breaking news, scottish court ruling that boris johnson's news, scottish court ruling that borisjohnson's decision to suspend parliament is unlawful, the government will appeal against that, lots of reaction, as you can imagine, labourmp david lots of reaction, as you can imagine, labour mp david lammy says the suspension of democracy was against the law, let's unlock the doors tomorrow. 0r, against the law, let's unlock the doors tomorrow. or, are you afraid of the uk's sovereign parliament taking back control? also, a question for you, particularly if you support labour, what is going on at the top when it comes to brexit, yesterday, the bossjeremy corbyn said this in a speech to trade
unionists. we will not allow boris johnson to dictate the terms, and i can tell you this, we are ready for the election, we are ready to unleash the biggest people powered campaign we have ever seen in this country! and in this movement! and we will have a credible option to leave and a credible option to remain. at 10:00 this morning to those same trade unions, labour's brexit secretary keir starmer said the same thing. also at 10:00 in a differnet venue, the deputy leader tom watson, appeared to completely contradict him, saying this. very difficult though it was, aye, and many others, respected the result of the 2016 referendum, or a very long time. but there eventually comes a point, and we are very far
past it now, where circumstances are so past it now, where circumstances are so changed, when so much new information has emerged, when so many people now feel differently, there comes a point when you have to say, "actually, no. " there comes a point when you have to say, "actually, no." that year's old but this it is no longer a valid basis on which to take such a momentous decision about the future of the united kingdom. the only proper way to proceed in such circumstances is to consult the people again in a referendum, with a credible option to leave and remain on the ballot paper. —— that year's old plebiscite. and that is what labour have committed to. so what's going on? with us is ayesha hazarika who writes for london's evening standard newsapaper and was an adviser to a number of labourfigures including ed miliband and harriet harman.
good morning. iwould good morning. i would like to ask you about the news from the court in edinburgh, boris johnson's suspension of parliament is unlawful, according to that court in glasgow. the government say they are disappointed and they will appeal. "the government needs to bring forward a strong domestic legislative agenda, prorogue in parliament is the legal and necessary way of delivering this." your reaction to the ruling? the court ruling in scotland is confirming what a lot of sensible people think, the government has not been honest with people. if they had said, we want to prorogue parliament because we are in trouble on brexit, people like me no may not have liked it but they would have been honest to. the high court last week ruled the suspension was not... on tuesday the suspension was not... on tuesday the supreme court will deliver a verdict, that is the final adjudicator, gina miller took the court case who. the mp5 to have a vote on the withdrawal agreement,
remember, that failed in the early round, this is quite an encouraging sign. people need to become, until we see the result on tuesday, although there is a question, should mp5 come back, because there is a lot of work going on. take our minds from brexit, talk about the domestic abuse bill, very important. massive bill for our audience. and a cross— party, bill for our audience. and a cross—party, i was at an event, marking the margaret atwood book, lots of feminist saying, why are really important issues like this being thrown away because of this brexit shenanigans? would you expect mp5 to be getting on trains? brexit shenanigans? would you expect mps to be getting on trains? come to parliament? i hope so, and they should do, yesterday we saw an interesting thing, yvette cooper, heading up the home affairs select committee, they did not do it in parliament but they did a shadow thing. i think mps must be very careful, about not just thing. i think mps must be very careful, about notjust going off on holiday and relaxing during this period of time! they need to show the public that they are ready to
get their shirt sleeves rolled up. surely nobody is going off on holiday. i don't know, but mps... they have only just holiday. i don't know, but mps... they have onlyjust come back from holiday. they have to be very careful about that. let's talk about the labour brexit position, the bass's position, and his brexit secretary, and the deputy‘s position, what is going on? real divisions at the top of labour, which is a shame because i think they have had a very good week, of they have had a very good week, of the stone used critics ofjeremy corbyn have said to me, you know what, fair play, he has played a blinder this week, put boris what, fair play, he has played a blinder this week, put bori5johnson right where he wants him, did not fall into the massive elephant trap of calling an early election. the tragedy is, labour, having been in a strong, united position, are now tearing themselves apart over this brexit position, tom watson says he does not think we should have a general election first, we should have a people's vote, a second referendum. to get brexit out the way and so we can then get on with the domestic agenda. jeremy corbyn
says, no, general election first, also basically saying, look, we should have two options on the table, he has even suggested he would not have an official labour party position, he would allow mps to campaign which way they wanted, my worry for the labour party is, if we have learned anything from the european elections, the voters are rewarding parties with clear positions on brexit, the brexit party, the liberal democrat. this is very confusing for a lot of people. which is the right approach, jeremy corbyn or tom watson? they have both got good intentions, my bigger question, eventually, labour must pick a side, whether it is in a people's vote or whether it is general election, you cannot be all things to all people, it is like highlander, there can only be one! labour has got to come down on the side of being remain. general election first? yes, and if there
was a people's vote, i don't think there will be one first but if there was, they should be supporting remaining in the eu, that is what john mcdonnell, shadow chancellor, would like to do. that is what diane abbott wants, she is not a blairite, these are not blairites, there is no majority for one type of brexit, a really interesting package on reforms for workers' rights was unveiled yesterday at the tuc in brighton, all of that is obscured by brexit. we have got to sort it out before we do all the other stuff. i'm going to speak to a labour voter ina i'm going to speak to a labour voter in a moment. the naughty government, nothing will ever get done. i wonder why tom watson wants to put off a general election, could be the same reason as the lib dems, claire says, i agree with tom watson, general
election should not be single issue, and we are likely to end up with a hung parliament, we will be in the same position. charlotte says, quite clear what tom watson is doing, trying to undermine jeremy clear what tom watson is doing, trying to underminejeremy corbyn. the inner house at the court of session, the government has already said it will appeal, they are disappointed with the decision, they say, and anna soubry is the leader of, and i'm going to get the name of your party wrong... please... i got it right last week. independent group for change. it is quite an extraordinary situation, before we all get overly excited, obviously, it will now be appealed by the government and it willjoin up with another action that has been taken
in london, because obviously scotla nd in london, because obviously scotland has its own legal system, england and wales have their own legal system. there is a court action on the same point, the prorogation was unlawful because it was done for political purpose, to shut down parliament call, to shut us shut down parliament call, to shut us up, so that we cannot keep the government holding them to account, asking them questions about no deal. that will now be held by the supreme court on tuesday, so they will put these actions together, but, i think what it does show is, it shows the extraordinary crisis we are in, and we have a prime minister, who will stop at nothing in order to carry out his ideological version of brexit, i don't believe the british people voted for that. coming back to the point i have been making for a long time, the only way through all this, which i am sure your viewers are fed up to the back teeth
with. it is to bring it to a conclusion by way of that people's vote, getting it back, getting it resolved, once and for all. that might not even resolve it. it would, actually, it really would, because if the british people voted for theresa may's deal or some version of it, that would be the end of our campaign, it would be the... it would not be the end of brexit, because we would have to still go forward with brexit and all of the negotiation. the court will issue parties with drafts of the opinions that have been prepared by each judge since the hearing last week. i emphasise that these are draft opinions, which are being issued because of the urgency of the situation, and they will be subject to tipa situation, and they will be subject to tip a graphical and other minor corrections, of which there are quite a few in the course of the week. —— typographical. each opinion expresses the view that the advice
given by the government to her majesty the queen to prorogue parliament from september nine, two october 14, was unlawful, and that therefore, the prorogation itself is unlawful. the court is conscious that its view differs from that of the divisional court of the queens bench division, in england and wales. the matter is likely, therefore, to require resolution by therefore, to require resolution by the united kingdom supreme court. this morning the court does not propose to make any and similar orders pending the resolution, and it will therefore reserve all incidental and related matters until the determination by that court. it will however hear parties on the question of permission to appeal. —— september ninth to october 14th. so, that was the ruling, just after... 10:10am. let me talk now to a labour voter, marianne walker is in
birmingham, she describes herself as ordinary labour party member, she got in touch with us. good morning. how do you react to this news from the court of session in edinburgh? it is great news. and why is that? why do you think it is great news? because, technically i believe what has been done is unlawful, it has gone against parliament, going against democracy, going against the people. let me ask you about this a speech this morning from the deputy leader of labour, tom watson, suggesting that there should be, let me get this right, "a general election..." he me get this right, "a general election. he wants a people's vote before a general election. and that labour should be absolutely and unequivocally a remain party. yes, i think what tom watson is doing is what he quite often does, going into
coalburn and leading media outrage againstjeremy corbyn and undermining him in the shadow government, with conference coming up government, with conference coming up soon for the labour party, i don't understand why he is doing that now. do you think it is damaging? i think it is damaging, really damaging, at a time when labour is doing very well, a situation that is rapidly changing, it isa situation that is rapidly changing, it is a time when everyone needs to stick together but watson seems to be presenting divisions in the party. when it comes to the general election, in the manifesto, it is whatjeremy corbyn described yesterday, his position, general election, then a further referendum with a credible leave option, as he puts it, with remain on the ballot paper; well that work with voters across the country? i thinkjeremy corbyn has been very clear with the referendum and stuff, the problem is how the media presents it. well, jeremy corbyn has been clear, saying they are calling for another
referendum, but the media is presenting the labour party is being mixed up and not knowing what they wa nt to mixed up and not knowing what they want to do... i understand that watson is saying there is division now. . . watson is saying there is division now... iron in terms of voters heading into a general election, imaginea labour heading into a general election, imagine a labour candidate is on your doorstep, if they do that anymore. . . your doorstep, if they do that anymore... indeed they do. you open the front do, and they say, are you leave or remain, labour? —— open the front door. what is the answer? labour is remain. not according to some members in the party. and if jeremy corbyn wants to offer both, both leave and remain, and he will not say which way he will go, then... do you think that is workable? i mean, yeah, but what we need to do is to make the labour party popular is stick together, and tom watson is going against that. thank you very much, marianne. marianne walker, in birmingham. does tom watson get slapped down by the boss for making these speeches? is
he in his right as an elected deputy to say what he wants?|j he in his right as an elected deputy to say what he wants? i think he is within his rights, remember, the majority of labour party members, of activists, a lot of voters, want a people's vote and i want labour to be remain, when i was doorknocking across the country for the last set of elections, european elections, people were so confused about our position. we are him during support in areas where people are quite supportive of jeremy corbyn's in areas where people are quite supportive ofjeremy corbyn's wider political agenda. —— we are him —— we are haemorrhaging support. they are unclear on what he stands for. at the moment, for clarity, it is going to be essential for the labour party, clarity will be essential. particularly because the liberal democrats have moved their position to revoking article 50. if you are a voter who cares about brexit, the next general election will be a brexit general election, not saying that is right but that is the way it will be. if you are a
lever, you will want to go for the brexit party and if you are a remainer, the only option is a clear credible remain party, that would be the lib dems, unless labour makes it very clear, loud and proud to people that it very clear, loud and proud to people thatitis very clear, loud and proud to people that it is remain. thank you very much. we can talk tojoe and a cherry of the snp, she was one of those behind this case. it has been heard in the court of session in edinburgh. at this point, you say that you have won, how are you feeling? —— joanna cherry. it is a unanimous decision, so we are delighted, three judges have ruled that this prorogation was unlawful. the government has said it will appeal, that potentially goes to the supreme court on tuesday. what would you advise colleagues in parliament who don't like this suspension to do in the meantime?
well, we think parliament should be recalled, for the time being, the highest court in the land that has ruled on the matter has said that prorogation is unlawful, so parliament should go back and get on with the job of scrutinising this government, looking at what they are up government, looking at what they are up to and preventing constituents from across the country, leave or remain, making sure they do not suffer the economic damage of a no—deal brexit, although the supreme court are due to hear this case, the english case, the northern ireland case, tuesday, wednesday, thursday next week, even if they were to issue... inaudible which is unlikely, it is a complex area of constitutional law, evenif complex area of constitutional law, even if they issued their decision immediately, we will have lost about ten days of parliamentary time. on the basis of the prorogation which is currently ruled to be unlawful. the snp are calling for parliament
to be resumed. let me tell you this, this is from our legal affairs correspondent, clive coleman, he says, parliament is free to sit in the period leading up to an appeal, according to what he has been told by lawyers who won the case. yes, well, that sounds right to me, but i am always very cautious in giving any legal opinion because i am of course not a legal adviser to the case, iam course not a legal adviser to the case, i am the first position, but that sounds right. since this decision came out, i have been flat out on the phone and doing media about it, not had time to think about it, not had time to think about the application. political implications are care, prorogation was unlawful, parliament should go back and get on with the job of representing constituents. there may be people watching the programme, i am sure there are, who voted leave, andi am sure there are, who voted leave, and i expect the fact they voted leave, my constituents voted remain, my country voted remain, but regardless of your position, it can
only be a good thing for parliament to scrutinise these things. thank you very much, we appreciate your time. many viewers think it is the right decision, parliament should be sitting at this time of national crisis, many pulling out their hair thinking, what is going on when the courts are getting involved with this. let's talk to ian watson, correspondent in brighton, with labour's brexit secretary, keir starmer. keir starmer is here, notjust a shadow "brexit" secretary but also a former director of public prosecutions, your initial reaction when you heard this was, wow! courts don't normally do this, fundamentally, at the moment, parliament will not be reconvening, they will wait for another court case next week. i welcome the judgment, strong judgment, and, case next week. i welcome the judgment, strongjudgment, and, i think that for the court to have reached that decision, they must've found the case against borisjohnson overwhelming, not surprising, i don't think many people believed him
when he gave reasons for shutting down parliament. the important thing now is for the prime minister, and i called on him to recall parliament, let's get it back open, and this afternoon and tomorrow, so we can debate what has happened. i'm calling them boris johnson to debate what has happened. i'm calling them borisjohnson to recall parliament, immediately, so we can go back into parliament to decide what to do next. the courts don't normally go here, you have a major background in the legal profession, a judge says that this tactic by the prime minister was to frustrate parliament, it should stop democratic scrutiny, how rare is a judgment like this? really rare, very strong, i don't think the judge will have used those words if they did not think the case against johnson was very strong. —— independent adjudicators. most people did not believe borisjohnson but the courts, to find he has u nlawfully but the courts, to find he has unlawfully shut down parliament, and that his motive was not the one he said it was...! that is very powerful. you expect this judgment
to stand ? powerful. you expect this judgment to stand? we will have to wait to see on appeal but the important thing is for boris johnson to recall parliament this afternoon or tomorrow morning so we parliament this afternoon or tomorrow morning so we can parliament this afternoon or tomorrow morning so we can get back into parliament, debate the judgment. thank you very much, shadow "brexit" secretary calling on boris shadow "brexit" secretary calling on bori5johnson to reconvene parliament, going away from the conference season and back to westminster. thank you very much. many thanks for your company. we are back tomorrow, 10am. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. thank you for your company today. have a good day. who knows what will happen next. good morning, some rain across much of england and wales this morning, but it is clearing southwards and we are seeing some bright skies developing further north, such as this rainbow in loughborough at the moment. you can see some sunny
spells for much of northern england, scotla nd spells for much of northern england, scotland and northern ireland, a few showers into scotland's afternoon, but gradually, the cloud clears to the south and it will linger in the south this afternoon, quite blustery conditions for many of us, gusting 30-40 conditions for many of us, gusting 30—40 mph, but it is not going to be particularly cold, temperatures out there around about 17—21. through tonight, the rain will continue to clear to the south, there will be some clear spells before the cloud will thicken up across the north, meaning that there will be some rain at times on thursday in scotland, northern ireland, northern part of england, brighter weather in the south—east, it will turn quite warm and humid for many of us.
you're watching bbc newsroom live — it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: scotland's highest civil court rules that the suspension of parliament is unlawful — because it was motivated by the "improper purpose of stymying parliament". the advice given by the government to her majesty the queen to prorogue parliament from the 9th of september to the 14th of october was unlawful and that therefore, the prorogation itself is unlawful. mixed messages from labour as deputy leader tom watson calls for a referendum before an election, and says they should back remain, putting him at odds with jeremy corbyn. i will argue that our position going into that election should be totally clear.
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