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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  September 21, 2019 11:30am-12:01pm BST

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hello, and welcome to the programme which brings together some of the uk's leading columnists with foreign correspondents who write for the folks back home with the dateline london. this week... is this the beginning of the end for israel's longest—serving prime minister? and is this the end of the beginning for a brexit deal? with me arejonathan sacredoti is a political commentator and broadcaster in the uk. jeffrey kofman is a canadian—born broadcaster. maria margaronis writes for the nation, charted the effects of greece's
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financial crisis, and has made radio documentaries on migrants journeying from africa to europe. and yasmin al bhai brown. born in uganda, herfamily was one of thousands expelled by idi amin. she's a british newspaper columnist. a warm welcome to all of you, good to have you back?. a warm welcome to all of you, good to have you back?. israel's newspaper front pages this weekend are not the ones benyamin netenyahu was probably expecting. after the second indecisive election in five months, power is described as slipping away. "himself alone" and "political death spasms" are among the headlines. prime minister for the last ten years, with a three—year stint before that in the 1990s, mr netenyahu, he's been reduced to urging benny gantz, the ex—army chief who leads the newish centrist party blue and white, the largest in the knesset after tuesday's poll, to join a unity government. gantz told him to push off. this in a week when iran, a country the israeli prime minister regularly invokes in elections as a reason why it needs a strong government, was blamed by the united states for halving saudi oil production with two drone attacks, claimed by houthi rebels
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in neighbouring yemen. before we talk about all of that, jonathan, just talk about benjamin netanyahu's jonathan, just talk about benjamin neta nyahu's fate. do jonathan, just talk about benjamin netanyahu's fate. do you think we are now witnessing the end of the netanyahu era? we definitely could be. but we also may not be. i think it is important at this stage that we think about it in that way. netanyahu we think about it in that way. neta nyahu has not we think about it in that way. netanyahu has not done as well as he would have hoped. these were elections he did not want. the kingmaker pulls the elections and then failed tojoin kingmaker pulls the elections and then failed to join the coalition. it is not looking good for netanyahu, it is not looking good for neta nyahu, but he it is not looking good for netanyahu, but he has proven that he is still a smart player when it comes to making coalitions. he got
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all the right wing parties and religious parties to agree. that puts him in a slightly stronger position because it means that effectively he has a block of 55 behind him and you need 61 to form the coalition. if we take every party on face value and the system in israel with other smaller parties playing the balance, there is a problem. because so far no one will sit with anyone. and if you put together the equation of who will sit with him, there is no solidarity. for this to happen, certain people won't sit with the arabesque parties because they are so arabesque parties because they are so extreme. arabesque parties because they are so extreme. someone arabesque parties because they are so extreme. someone to sit with the ultra orthodox parties because they are extreme in different ways. it means that someone is going to have to break their promise and that will be where we find the coalition. that can still be netanyahu's coalition.
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having to deal with all this politics... it is so complicated. i have to be honest, i look forward to the day when he goes because he has been... ithink the day when he goes because he has been... i think he has been such bad i'iews. been... i think he has been such bad news. it has taken him to really bring deep pessimism to the area. i think that is a tragedy. people don't even talk about a two state solution any more. he has taken away the hope and i could never forgive him for that. sol the hope and i could never forgive him for that. so i hope it is not him, whoever it is. would benny gantz's party be better? yes and no. a lot of palestinians are saying at least we already know the devil with
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netanyahu. his campaign has been about expanding to oratory. —— expanding territory. taking into account all the up and down the politics in israel and palestine it has been considerably destructive.” think that is one of the interesting thing with neta nyahu think that is one of the interesting thing with netanyahu because we hear that a lot from people outside of israel. part of the elections —— the elections were not about expanding territory, he has always been about mr security. he has brought a certain amount of economic success to the country. he has kept relative peace. he has defended well against the terror front and he stood up against obama who was a very
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critical president of the us against him. he has now got very close ties to resident trent. but that is the problem. his desire to survive seems less about israel and more about him. this is a man who is facing serious bribery and corruption charges. which he denies. but if he is able to stay in office, there is the possibility of immunity, so for him it is notjust about his legacy continuing, it is about protecting himself from serious consequences. what has been happening in gaza in the last three or four years is unspeakable. and we have not talked about it here. partly because of this ridiculous definition that was forced upon us that we may not discuss some of these issues. is a
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problem in gaza is not one sided. you have a population led by terrorists under the thumb of hamas. you do not shoot 12—year—olds. terrorists under the thumb of hamas. you do not shoot 12-year-olds. the problem of gaza is not one sided. bring it back to the election. to bring it back to where we began, what is interesting in an arrow where we wonder if democracy can stand the kind of assaults we are seeing in this us and some of the gamesmanship we are seeing here in westminster. i think we can take some comfort to know that in fact pendulums in democracy do swing and there is a resilience in the israeli system. for all of his aggressive gaming of the systems to hold on to power and the extremism that he articulated in the last weeks of the
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campaign is not actually able to do this. whether or not he survives, the fact that we see this possibility of change, to me, is a sign of optimism in reading what is a sea of anxiety in democratic countries. in the wider picture u nless countries. in the wider picture unless there is a settlement for the palestinians both israel and the palestinians both israel and the palestinians face a future much like the past or worse. and if we have both potential prime ministers netanyahu both potential prime ministers neta nyahu and both potential prime ministers netanyahu and benny gantz both promising to annex thejordan valley, which makes a two state solution extremely difficult because it is the main agricultural area for the palestinians, where does that leave us? i think that is a perfectly valid analysis. the reason why there has not been a two state solution that is the refusal of the
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palestinians. i think that this deadlock in the process is one that has forced israelis to prioritise other things. i think where it leaves us is where we are. the sobering reality is that no one is invested enough in a resolution to this conflict that we are going to see a change in the next number of decades. i think it is going to muddle on like this with flare—ups and tensions and intermittent wars... the annexation is not a kind of side product of what is going on. it is an ambition, and ambition that they are pushing. and the world is allowing this to happen. is this just electoral policy?” allowing this to happen. is this just electoral policy? i do not think so it has been going on for a long time. and the criticism has vanished. let's talk about the other country that jonathan mentioned.
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netanyahu's country that jonathan mentioned. neta nyahu's success in country that jonathan mentioned. netanyahu's success in building relations with countries like saudi arabia. we hear that us troops are heading to their region. the secretary of state has been talking about this. what is your take coming after the attacks? the interesting thing about watching donald trump is that he is a schoolyard bully and we know that he likes to threaten and brandishes weapons. but i think ultimately what we are seeing is that he does not actually want to create a confrontation. the threat from iran i've a few attacked us, then game on, i think, this very odd comment from trump when this happened saying we are waiting for out happened saying we are waiting for our instruction from saudi arabia, thatis our instruction from saudi arabia, that is extraordinary for our president of the united states to
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say. any other president would have been demolished for this kind of thing. i think he is not going to do anything unless someone initiates it. he has been blind to the can chose the assassination, he does not wa nt chose the assassination, he does not want to know about that. he will do anything to maintain relationship.” think there is also the question that gets away from us in this nrc is iran. it is a huge... if people are worrying about donald trump, they are to be much more worried about the iranians. any response to any american military action will not be constrained to the source, they will spread it around. on that point of saudi arabia and iran, saudi arabia does not want to get
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into a saudi arabia does not want to get intoa war saudi arabia does not want to get into a war with iran. it does not see it as an attractive option. it likes to maintain this kind of standoff. the last thing it wants is a direct confrontation. giant -- generally speaking, the iranians have said they do not want to work, but they will defend themselves. they will wipe out saudi arabia. we do not want to take them seriously. one of them has a responsibility of sponsoring terrorism around the world. it is notjust in saudi arabia. one of the things is what is the meaning of john arabia. one of the things is what is the meaning ofjohn bolton? i have not been able to... is there a meeting? there must be! if we agree that it was probably around that did
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the strikes, coming so soon after john bolton left, it seems very much a game of chess. they are saying to your hawk is left, and you have made it clear that you are not going to do very much... trump is somebody who does not want war. he came to power... iran and saudi arabia, saudi arabia is so shocking what is going on. what has been done to their own people. in both countries. executions, imprisonment, that human rights violations. it was not just that shoji. there was a report on the numberof that shoji. there was a report on the number of executions this year alone and saudi arabia including six children. but what do you do? i think iran is just children. but what do you do? i think iran isjust as bad. i have to
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make my feminist point. these are all men! actually all vile, awful men in these countries, in america, in our country who are actually taking us step—by—step tour to catastrophe. i think given that yesterday we had millions of people, children and young people on friday we had massive protests around the world about the climate catastrophe. so we have not mentioned that little three letter word, oil. so we have not mentioned that little three letterword, oil. it so we have not mentioned that little three letter word, oil. it seems to me that this is a moment where we have to recognise that oil is not only destroying the planet, it is the cause and has been the cause of terrible wars and conflicts. this is a moment to grasp that and say we have to shift a way. well said. we are sitting here in london and i think iran has been extremely aggressive towards the uk in recent months. the imprisonment of uk
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nationals. the seizure of... the behaviour of the tanker that was released from gibraltar. and on a pledge from the iranians that it would not go to syria to sell oil which is exactly what it did. they have lied, they have developed secret nuclear weapons. it is strange that we are not positioning ourselves into a slightly more serious stance. the grand duchy of luxembourg is one of europe's smallest countries. just 2,500 kilometres of land are bordered by belgium, france and germany. it has a reputation for being both wealthy and a little dull. on monday, though, it was so noisy with anti—brexit protestors that borisjohnson, the british prime minister, decided not to stay to be heckled in the sunshine at what should have been a joint news conference with the grand duchy‘s prime minister. yet after the luxembourgois president of the eu commission,
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jean—claude juncker gave an interview to british television on thursday, the pre—brexit gloom seemed to lighten. "we can have a deal", he declared. by friday, mrjohnson‘s brexit secretary was in brussels talking with the eu's chief negotiator michel barnier. maria, the sterling rose to i think a two year high on the back of this announcement. could it be, whisper it softly, that we might be heading towards a brexit deal? a lot of people are making quite a lot of money on this currency fluctuation. i have no idea if we are moving towards a brexit deal. michel barnier has said that the personal goals set forward are not concrete. —— the proposals set forward are not set in concrete. i think this conversation has moved so far away from the reality and what is happening so has the politics. both
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parties are tearing themselves apart. the labour party has been in this tremendous route over the deputy leader tom watson. it is connected to brexit. all these rounds go back a long way. ijust keep longing for someone to come out and say look, this brexit thing has become a metaphor for everything else that has gone wrong, austerity, poverty, people's feeling of having no poverty, people's feeling of having c poverty, people's feeling of having no agency in politics. jeffrey it should be a six letter word rather than a four letter word. how many times did we sit around this table when theresa may saying that maybe she's going to pull the rabbit out of the hat? i am very sceptical. may be, but what i think this is really about all sides posturing so that
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whatever the outcome, they are not accused of not trying. and i think it is about seeing to be trying. maybe it is true, it may be brinksmanship will resolve. there is another part of this calculation. the word deal is going to put off all those supporters of the brexit party. all speak at same time what nigel farage has said he wants a deal, but he hasjust removing the backstop is not enough. he would prefer no to theresa may's minus the backstop. the word deal is connected to theresa may. borisjohnson cannot say this is the deal without this oral without that. i do not know what happens next. i don't know who... he does not control that
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decision. hundred the ridiculous act, this is why legislation should never be made to satisfy one coalition. because now we have a prime minister who has lost the majority that he could have had trapped in office by the labour party. it's interesting that you say he lost a. ok, he got rid of it. he pulled the lowest of all prime ministers. we have a situation where the opposition party can trap a prime minister in parliament. he is now stuck in his position where the country is the one that will suffer because there is no government to be able to make laws on anything. there is an opposition who will not allow
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a general election for the people to choose because presumably they are afraid of leaving our they do not wa nt to afraid of leaving our they do not want to deal with the mess themselves. then they should take offence and perhaps... perhaps the first thing he can do is stop shutting down parliament when it does not suit him. that is such an authoritarian decision. he died. i'm sorry, he lied about why he took that decision. well they say he didn't. will of course they say he didn't! this happened to the oldest democracy in the world. i've just beenin democracy in the world. i've just been in africa and they were just saying to me that our leaders are going to follow boris johnson. one of the interesting things is that boris is increasingly trying to prove that he can bring about no deal in order to bring about a better deal in the negotiations. in
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order to maintain a threat, he has had to tell this line of an intentional ambiguity about whether he will break the law, of course he wa nts. he will break the law, of course he wants. about whether he will prorogue again. of course he won't. really?! high risk steaks because he's got nothing left. his plan was to go and get another deal with a credible threat and come back with a better deal. but in order to have that threat sounds credible, he's got to allow them believe that he will break the law and end up in prison and that he will go against us prison and that he will go against us supreme court. these are the things he is clinging to desperately. he is making the people believe this. maria is not co mforta ble. believe this. maria is not comfortable. do you actually believe what he says? some of it. he is a
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politician. this policy of brinkmanship is extremely dangerous andl brinkmanship is extremely dangerous and i think it is counterproductive. the eu is doing as well. even if we have what they call a wto exit, which means no deal, we still have to negotiate trading deals with our partners. jeffrey, i think this is probably the correct week to ask events, is there anything you want to tell us about your teenage years in canada? did you ever apply dark makeup? the thing about this is that it isa makeup? the thing about this is that it is a long time ago and it is an absolutely inexcusable act of stupidity and insensitivity. but canada is in the middle of an election. october 21. he
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canada is in the middle of an election. 0ctober21. he has a chance to hold onto a minority. the conservatives are very weak, the leader is not getting traction, but the third party has collapsed its vote and so he was placed to at least hold on. this has come at a very odd time, and me thinks someone is gaming the system. he was 29. it wasn't so long ago was it acceptable 20 years ago? the problem is i think many people say that credulity —— incredulity is fake. i think if he weren't thinking of being woke, perhaps it would not been such a big deal peer explain wealth? if you look it up in the dictionary i think he would see a picture ofjustin trudeau, but i'm not sure what colour the picture would be. he is
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an idiot for having done it, will this affect the outcome of the election? the sense that i am getting from canada is that now, this is not going to undermine him. his record as prime minister, oddly goes right against the photos which is why it is so hard to reconcile. that is a more nuanced issue the alleged corruption because he was on one level trying to protect one of canada's largest employers from collapsing. this is a man whose reputation in canada is for compassion and tolerance which is why these photos are so disconnecting. i can get exercise about this brown face things because all my white friends go to tanning
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beds wanting to look like make sol ta ke beds wanting to look like make sol take it as a compliment. a lot of my asian friends who are canadians, indian pakistani etc, are all behind him. they love the man. they love the man. i would not say that even supporters universally love him. there is a feeling of come on, justin. the canadian papers are saying that people are not going to let this be a reason to throw him out of office. that does not mean he is going to win. it won't on its own be enough. this is catastrophic and indefensible, but the timing is obviously designed to undermine him. he has got a month to recover, he is already moving on to talk about other issues. and the question is well the voters move on. we only have a week to recover, but we will
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be back next week with more dateline lines and. from all of us, thank you. goodbye. hello there. sunrise on the east coast this morning and very similar picture across parts of the uk. there was some patchy fog but it is lifting and clearing. but the southerly breeze, another warm day. the high pressure will keep us mostly dry. because we are tapping from this era in africa, temperatures are well above where they should be. in the daytime. there is a potentialfor some scattered showers which could be century in the south. for most of us
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it will be dry and sunny weather. it is very windy today. strong and very dusty. particularly on the eastern and south coast. even with the wind, temperatures are expected to peak at mid 20s in southern and eastern areas. 21! in the northwest of scotland. overnight, the thundery downpours will continue. it will extend further north and east. what that means is that overnight, having had a week of chilly nights with temperatures down to single figures, it will be much milder. that make great on sunday morning. the showers are making their way across eastern england followed by a band of more persistent rain. he could give 20 mm of rain before it moves away potentially. overall it will be much cloudier. it is still windy. not as warm, but warm. temperatures in the
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high teens though 20. the weather front will push into scotland and it will bring another one in. for the latter pa rt will bring another one in. for the latter part of monday that will be. in this, we have got tropical air. the remnants of humberto. that means there would be some heavy rain in there would be some heavy rain in the system. having a dry september for the majority, we have wet and windy weather coming in. temperatures will not dip that much, 18 to 20 degrees. monday we'll see as with weather fronts straddling the uk, fairly strong winds at time. it does look much more unsettled as you can see for much of next week. just—in—time as the autumn equinox arrives. goodbye.
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this is bbc news. the headlines at 12:00: jeremy corbyn orders a review of the role of the labour's deputy leader amidst a row over a bid to oust tom watson on the first day of labour's party conference. the nec agreed this morning that we are going to consult on the future of diversifying the deputy leader position to reflect the adversity of society. position to reflect the adversity of society. does tom watson have yourfull confidence? tom watson is the deputy leader of the party and i enjoy working with him. the travel firm thomas cook has approached the government for emergency funding, as it tries to avoid going into administration, leaving customers with uncertainty. just don't know what the situation
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