tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News September 24, 2019 10:00am-10:31am BST
hello, it's tuesday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. it's judgment day in the supreme court. in half an hour's time justices are set to rule on whether the pm's decision to shut down parliament was [awful or not. this is forbidden territory. it is a matter between the executive and parliament. we've got here the mother of parliaments being shutdown by the father of lies. rather than allowing lies to triumph, listen to the angels of your better nature. and rule that this prorogation is unlawful. we'll bring you the judges‘ decision live, plus lots of reaction.
why did thomas cook's top bosses pay themselves millions in bonuses with the company on the brink of collapse? the government wants an investigation to be fast—tracked. one thomas cook worker tells us she's feeling completely lost today. i think it is too late for anything, if i'm honest. like they said, it happened overnight, we've all woken up with no jobs, what do you do? i don't really know where to go from here, to be honest. and labour's voted to stay neutral on brexit in a general election. but is that enough to convince the party's core northern voters to back them? ex—miners in bolsover in derbyshire tell us what they think ofjeremy corbyn. i have always been labour, ex miner, my dad was a minor, all my dad's brothers were minors, so i don't
really... i can't bring myself to vote tory, i could never do that, but i can't supportjeremy corbyn. we'll ask the former miner and labour party chairman ian lavery what he thinks of that. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. at half past ten, the historic supreme court ruling. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about. at 1030 we will go to the supreme court and you will hear at the conclusion from the president of the supreme court, baroness hale. first annita mcveigh has the news. thomas cook customers have accused airlines of cashing in on the holiday firm's demise
after being faced with high bills to book replacement flights. “1,700 people were brought back to the uk yesterday. thousands more stranded holidaymakers are being brought back today in a state—funded rescue effort called operation matterhorn. brexit campaigner and businessman arron banks is considering legal action against the electoral commission, after the national crime agency found no evidence of criminality over certain leave. eu funds. the agency launched its investigation after the electoral commission fined the group in may last year. earlier this month, the metropolitan police dropped its own investigation, saying there was "insufficient evidence." donald trump has defended himself against accusations of abuse of power. he denies pressuring ukraine's president to look into unsubstantiated corruption allegations against former american vice president joe biden and his son. democrats accuse mr trump of threatening to withhold aid from ukraine to damage a possible
rival for the white house. leading psychologists are calling for a change around the language of obesity, saying people do not choose to be obese. more than a quarter of adults are obese in england, an increase of 18% over a five—year period. a new a report by the british psychological society says this increase cannot be the result of a lack of will power alone. the duke and duchess of sussex are on the second day of their royal tour of south africa. dancing seems to be the theme. here's harry today with waves for change, a mental health organisation. and yesterday, harry and meghan were in cape town meeting campaigners fighting against high rates of violence against women and children. it's their first official overseas trip with four—month—old son archie. that is a summary of our top stories so far. so, it'sjudgement day. in just under half an hour the supreme court will reveal whether borisjohnson‘s decision
to shut down parliament was lawful. this unprecedented case is a historic test of the powers of the prime minister, mps and the courts. if the government loses, parliament may be reconvened, and the pm may be under pressure to resign, although in the past few hours he's ruled out that course of action. we'll bring you that ruling live at 10.30, plus lots of reaction, but first to remind us what's at stake today let's talk to jack simpson caird. he's a senior research fellow in parliaments and the rule of law at the bingham centre for the rule of law. remind us how we got here. backin back in august, the prime minister took the unusual decision to suspend parliament for five weeks and when he took that decision lawyers were ready to challenge it under they challenge that both in the scotland and in london. the court in london said it wasn't a matter that could be decided by the courts, there was no relevant legal standard to challenge a suspension of
parliament, but the scottish court went the other way and said it was unlawful because the effect was to limit parliament's unlawful because the effect was to limit pa rliament‘s role unlawful because the effect was to limit parliament's role in scrutinising the executive, which is central to how our constitution works, so it is up to the supreme court to decide which court was right. and that is the highest court in the country sorted a's decision is final. what are the options open to it? first of all there is the decision of whether it is lawful or not. if the court says the decision was lawful then it is business as usual, the suspension continues and we have a queen'sspeech which is when the queen sets out to the government plan for the forthcoming year, on the 14th of october. if it goes the other way, there are three options. the first is that the court says it is unlawful but up to the government and parliament to decide what happens next. in that situation we will not immediately know when parliament might meet again. the
second option is they could be a bit more prescriptive and say it was unlawful and the need to have the queen'sspeech earlier, before the 14th of october. the third option, potentially the most radical, is to say that because their advice to the queen was unlawful, the prorogation is unlawful and never actually happened so in that scenario in theory parliament was never prorogued on the 9th of september and tomorrow parliament could continue to sit where it left off. that has never happened before so we don't know how it would work but those are the three main options. what would be the mechanism, who would recall, reconvene parliament if the government loses? that depends on which of the three options occurs. the third option where parliament has never been prorogued is the most controversial ina prorogued is the most controversial in a sense because in theory the speaker can take the lead and decide
whereas with the other two it is up to the government to decide when the recall should happen and parliament should sit again, and people are saying if you decide it is unlawful and it is still up to the government then... they could choose the 14th of october. exactly. and that ruling is at half past ten. boris johnson wants the insolvency service to fast—track its investigation into the collapse of thomas cook. the company's directors have come under fire for paying themselves a total of £20 million in salaries and bonuses since 2014. just under 15,000 customers were flown home yesterday on emergency flights. nine thousand thomas cook staff in the uk are facing redundancy, including pilot jason roberts, and travel agent and single mum to a five—year—old girl, megan allsworth. i spoke to them both earlier, and i started by asking meghan how she's feeling, now she's had 2a hours for the news to settle in.
iam i am rather numb. i don't know how i am feeling. yesterday was a shock. todayit am feeling. yesterday was a shock. today it has come to reality that i don't have a job to go to. definitely feeling numb today. what about you, jason? shell-shocked as the best expression i could use. one minute i had ajob the best expression i could use. one minute i had a job in the next minute i don't. being an airline pilot, our skills are not readily transportable so hopefully i can get anotherjob as a pilot. that's all. how do you feel that the top directors at thomas cook have been paid 20 million, combined, in the salaries and bonuses since 2014? one thing i will say first and foremost is that i... yes, i feel that is rather excessive but, having said
that, i have to be careful what i say at the moment and you will excuse [tie say at the moment and you will excuse me that i don't really want to diss senior management until i know the full facts and the important thing for me is to get anotherjob so important thing for me is to get another job so i important thing for me is to get anotherjob so i have to be careful what i say but it does seem rather excessive. what about you? we all have targets and bonuses to achieve so have targets and bonuses to achieve so there are things like that which could have been drawn back, i guess, but, like jason says, i have to be careful what i say until we know the facts of what has happened. you don't have an instinct for the government to call that back from them or them to voluntarily handsome money back? i think it is too late for anything, if i'm honest. money back? i think it is too late foranything, if i'm honest. it money back? i think it is too late for anything, if i'm honest. it has happened overnight, we have all woken up with no jobs, happened overnight, we have all woken up with nojobs, what happened overnight, we have all woken up with no jobs, what do you do? i don't know. i don't really know where to go from here, if i'm
honest. jason, is this the second time this has happened to you?m is, yes. iwas time this has happened to you?m is, yes. i was with monarch airlines. i had left them because i could see the writing was on the wall, they were actually a superb company to work for as well as thomas cook. hopefully the industry will recognise this and hopefully we will recognise this and hopefully we will find it easier to getjobs. there is a report that passengers on one of the final thomas cook flights collected two carrier bags full of cash for the cabin crew. they were in they didn't know whether the company had gone into administration, and when they landed the pilot over the tannoy said, "our dream has ended," and passengers had a whip round. i think it is outstanding and shows how much people that love thomas cook, how it was such a loved brand. being an
employee of thomas cook, it is drilled into you to be a family. and it really was like that. everybody keptin it really was like that. everybody kept in contact with each other throughout the uk, we all had different social media groups. we all supported each other and have continued to do so in this state so it goes to show what thomas cook is really about. what do you think of that, jason, that's a gesture? that is incredible generosity. it doesn't surprise me, really. thomas cook being the brand it is. hopefully we have put a smile and a lot of people's faces in their 178 years we have been going, effectively inventing the package holiday. it is a great brand and i hope it will live on in the rest of us. we have soitle live on in the rest of us. we have some great memories. that is incredible generosity and i thank from the bottom of my heart the
general public for how much support they have already given to us. you area they have already given to us. you are a single parent. in the immediate short term, what are you going to do to support your family? that is the first thing that has been on my mind, especially this morning. iam been on my mind, especially this morning. i am very lucky that i have supportive friends and family who will help but, other than looking for anotherjob, will help but, other than looking for another job, there's not will help but, other than looking for anotherjob, there's not i can do. i'm going to do everything i can, of course. but at the moment i am pretty clueless as to what i am going to do. megan and jason and we wish them all the best and speedy success wish them all the best and speedy success and trying to get another job. next we're going to speak to the chairman of the labour party, ian lavery, about the party's official new brexit position — being neutral, being neither leave or remain —
at least until they decide months after potentialy winning a general election, whether they should be leave or remain. that, after a bid to become and out and out remain party was defeated at the party's conference in brighton, on a show of hands. before we do, with an election looming, are the conservatives about to move in on working class constituencies in labour's northern heartlands? they hope that, injeremy corbyn and brexit, they have two reasons traditional labour voters might turn to them. in bolsover in derbyshire, more than 70% of people voted for brexit, and we've been hearing from, historically at least, some of labour's most loyal voters — the miners. they were thriving — thriving for years. you know, pits and people on shift work. all different age groups. all that changed. since the pits have gone, it's lost its heart. there's no togetherness. the pit forged that togetherness
and it's not happening now. for most of the last century, northern mining towns like this one were bywords for solidarity and for voting labour. but with economic decline and a disconnect over brexit, are we seeing a fracturing between the party and some of its most loyal supporters? i've always been labour. ex—miner, my dad was a miner. all my dad's brothers were miners. so i don't really.... i can't bring myself to vote tory — i could never do that. but i can't supportjeremy corbyn. in its 70—year history, the constituency of bolsover has only had two mps — both labour. for years, whether the party was up or down, it could rely on former miners and hatred of the conservatives who closed down the pits. it's nothing else but the tories and have they done owt in the last
ten years around here? no. will they do it in the next five years around here? no. where's all your policemen around here? gone. but earlier this year, labour lost control of the local council, which hasn't happened in 40 years. two conservatives were elected. and, at the last general election, its next door neighbour mansfield voted in a conservative mp for the first time ever. it's a real shame that we are in the position we're in with the tories potentially looking at taking this seat. but we're not going to let it happen and we're going to fight it to our very last breath. we have been coming across people that have said they're not going to vote any more, because they don't feel listened to. ashley taylor is a young labour member here in bolsover — the seat held by ex—mining anti—eu socialist dennis skinner since 1970. the leave vote round here was huge and these leaflets are reminding voters skinner is one of them.
but will it be enough? so why are so many traditional labour supporters thinking of either voting for farage or borisjohnson? it's immigration. top and bottom on it, it's immigration. they believe this myth that they took all our jobs — all ourjobs, so—called, they took all ourjobs so we've got no work now. i don't know why, you know, media... i don't know, listen to media, there's something in it. myth or not, that feeling in shirebrook runs deep and there's a big reason why. the conservative government closed the pit in 1993, putting 1000 men out of work. but then, just over a decade ago, sports direct chose to build its vast headquarters right on top of the old mine. with it came 4,000 jobs and hope.
but owner mike ashley chose a different route. if they'd have come in with good working relationships and decent money, it could have been a godsend to this town. he brough people in from abroad. some people have resented that ever since. did what's mike ashley's done with sports direct and, you know, bringing in the eastern european workers, did that play any part in your decision to vote out? yes, it did, yes. mike ashley said there'll be no unemployment in shirebrook. he employed a handful of people that he imported — all his own staff. it's never picked up since. in response to these criticisms, mike ashley has previously said that he would not have been able to grow his sports direct business without using those agency workers. they largely come from eastern european countries, such as poland,
romania and bulgaria. who do you think people are going to vote for if there's an election, and why? i'll vote for labour. i've always been labour, so i'm not going to change now. but saying that, the labour has got to wake itself up a bit. they've got to sort themselves out. and isjeremy corbyn the man to sort it out? i don't think so. i think he's got to be a little bit stronger than what he is. and historical party loyalties don't extend to everyone. in a completely unscientific survey in a nearby working men's club, three of the eight drinkers said they were planning to vote tory for the first time ever. but in a place where animosity to the party is passed down through the generations, getting them to say it publicly was difficult. but a former senior official at the local and num —
that's the national union of mine workers — did tell me dennis skinner could lose the seat. he said even his own brother was considering voting tory, but that he'd never speak to him again if he did. another miner whose job went when the local pit was closed said any working—class man who votes tory should be burned. but what came up more than once here were questions about jeremy corbyn's patriotism and his associations with irish republicanism — all the subject of press headlines. i don't think he's fit to lead the country. so i still have to look elsewhere. what's wrong with borisjohnson, because you voted to leave, didn't you? i voted to leave, yeah. and borisjohnson is saying we're going to get out by the 31st... well i'd vote... i'd support boris johnson because he's our only chance of getting out, because theresa may lied. so...but i can't... it's in my genes — i can't vote tory. i'd not be able to eat my dinner if i did! all right. labour government, everyone, coitie on!
but down the road, away from the village of shirebrook, there's enthusiasm for the labour leader among these party members. i think he's been really positive for the area. you see a lot more young people coming tojoin the party, because they are kind of inspired by his message. what's it like if you door—knock, or leaflet a round shirebrook? we haven't actually done any doorknocking or leafleting around shirebrook. we're doing it... yeah, we're doing it later on in the week. we're not complacent any more and we're really trying to listen to people. and it's not a mining area any more. it's the changing demographics that are really changing the way that bolsover works. obviously going to be tory voters in the area, but i don't think that we're in any sort of danger of losing the seat to the tories, if that's what you're suggesting. i think we'll be fine. confident? yeah. that was sean clare reporting.
we'll be talking to ian lavery in moment, but first let's talk to the labour mp stephen doughty who has been a critic of labour's position on brexit. let's talk now to another former miner — and ex president of the national union of miners, in fact he succeeded arthur scargill. i think it is absolutely right that the people should have a final choice on this and it is labour's policy and there has to be a credible lever deal on the table which people who want to still leave can do when we have taken the catastrophic no deal off of the table. when the miner on the doorstep says, ok, very well, but are you leave or remain? personally
iam remain. i have had are you leave or remain? personally i am remain. i have had this conversation multiple times and i find that the vast majority of people want to talk about other issues. let's follow this conversation logically. are you leave or remain? and what about your party? welsh labour is remain. why ca nt party? welsh labour is remain. why cant you make a decision? conference had a lengthy debate yesterday and the reality is that was about what would happen after a general election. jeremy corbyn can't make a decision? he has been clear that any deal has to go back to the british public for them to have their say. any deal that borisjohnson brings back, if we believe you will bring one back at all, is in my view going to have to go back to the british people so they can decide whether they want it or not. people want to know before a general election is a
vote for labour vote to remain or leave ? vote for labour vote to remain or leave? in my case it is of all to remain. in welsh labour, scottish labour, northern ireland to the position of the sdlp, it is very clear. it doesn't work like that. it does. we may face choices in the next weeks that are going to be things we will have to decide as mps now, not the situation after a general election. what about english labour? ian takes a different view to me. we agree though that this has to go back to the people and people have to have the final say on this. as a vote for labour vote for leaving a remaining? in my view, four remaining. we may face choices in
the next few weeks. what do you think about leaders who can't make decisions? labour is a democratic party and we have different decision—making structures, conferences one of those, where there was lively debate. jeremy corbyn's position is very clear that this issue should go back to the people. in the meantime he will remain neutral because he has kicked the can down the road. we are actually trapped here between the liberal democrats who would revoke without any question... i'm asking you about your leader. what about the fact he can't make a decision, he isa the fact he can't make a decision, he is a leader of the biggest political opposition party in this country? he has taken a decision that he wants to after a general election put this back to the people and let them have the final say and he has my full support on that but i would vote to remain. thank you for talking to us and stepping in. he's chairman of the labour
party — ian lavery. i'm sad you didn't hear a report from x miners in bolsover but they said they can't vote for your party at the next election because of jeremy corbyn. how does that make you feel? it doesn't make us feel very good. i understand and share their frustrations. bolsover is very much like my own constituency, built on coal mining, and the miners there have been left behind for a long time. but we could persuade these individuals to have a look at what we individuals to have a look at what we have to offer. we have to listen to what they have to say.
we have to offer. we have to listen to what they have to saylj we have to offer. we have to listen to what they have to say. i will tell you what they said to us. this is an tell you what they said to us. this isanx tell you what they said to us. this is an x miner, his dad was a minor, all his dad's brothers were miners, lifelong labour voter with the party in his dna and he said he couldn't bring himself to vote tory but he couldn't bring himself to vote for jeremy corbyn. that is damning about your leader. again, i wouldn't like to criticise anybody. we live in a democratic society. i would say that individuals who you have had on video have a right to say what they wa nt video have a right to say what they want but i believe if they look at what we stand for and what we have coming out of this conference, what we are coming out of this conference, what we are doing for the former mining communities and reviewing mine workers pensions, i think we could convince them thatjeremy corbyn is the man and the labour party as the party to support at a general election. we have to show them what their options are. the tories are their options are. the tories are
the people themselves who created the people themselves who created the desperate society in which some of these people are living and have suffered for generations. the lib dems are ignoring everyone and the labour party have a raft of policies which i believe will bring people together, give —— given the opportunity to articulate what we stand for. you are next miner, you stood on a manifesto for delivering the outcome of the eu referendum. you said no to a second referendum three times. neither of those things are true now so are you three times. neither of those things are true now so are you considering your position? i am delighted that the labour party have come to the position which they have at the conference yesterday and we have a clear policy going forward. when we win the election we will head off to brussels and get a labour deal and
put that back to the people. how can you say you are delighted? you were absolutely against a second referendum. where are your principles? the second referendum wasn't in the 2017 manifesto and definitely wasn't what we said as we respect the vote of the 2016 referendum. we are doing that, you can see referendum. we are doing that, you can see that from the conference yesterday and we also said we were to avoid a no—deal brexit at any cost. it doesn't right to say we are not adhering to what the manifesto says, we not adhering to what the manifesto says, we are not adhering to what the manifesto says, we are adhering. we will get eve ryo ne says, we are adhering. we will get everyone together and decide what we are going to do with regard to the 2019 manifesto and then ensure that people are fully aware when they go to the ballot box what we stand for. why aren't you resigning in protest? iam not why aren't you resigning in protest? i am not resigning in protest. i
think we have our bright future underjeremy corbyn. think we have our bright future under jeremy corbyn. we think we have our bright future underjeremy corbyn. we are going to the supreme court now but we appreciate your time. let's go live to the supreme court right now. we are doing everything in our power to sort out the sound right now. hopefully we will sort that for you. ina in a second now we in a second how we are in a second now we are going to get the sound back for you. iam going i am going to apologise