tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News October 14, 2019 9:15am-10:02am BST
pro—independence groups in catalonia have called for mass civil disobedience. police say there have been more than 1,300 arrests in connection with the ongoing extinction rebellion protests across london. hundreds of activists occupied the crossroads outside the bank of england this morning, targeting financial firms they say profit from climate change. the protests in the capital started last monday and aim to cause maximum disruption. a hearing into whether parents should be allowed to protest against the teaching of lgbt relationships outside a primary school will begin later. earlier this year, birmingham city council issued a temporary injunction banning campaigners from demonstrating outside the school. the legality of that injunction will be decided at the city's high court. we'll bring you the queen's speech
at the state opening of parliament from 10am — now it's time for the victoria derybshire programme with chloe tilley. hello, it's monday, it's 9.15, i'm chloe tilley. the queen is going to set out this government's agenda in a speech to parliament this morning. 22 new bills are planned. but can borisjohnson expect to get any of them passed? he doesn't have a majority in the house of commons, and he's still negotiating a last—minute brexit deal with the eu. it's not alljust it's not all just about brexit, it's not alljust about brexit, as ministers set out their plans for britain after we leave the european union. but is the queen being dragged into a party political broadcast on behalf of boris johnson? and there could be an election within months, too. so, we've brought mps together with voters to find out what they want politicians‘ priorities to be. iam rebekah,
i am rebekah, i work in a food bank andi i am rebekah, i work in a food bank and i would like to see key changes to the benefit system to ensure that it is protecting the most vulnerable. i am chris, i am a military veteran and i am here to talk about veterans' mental health and talk about better infrastructure. i am aisha and assistant principal in a secondary school and i would like to see respect and recognition for the role of the teacher and the enormous job they do in and outside of the classroom. hello. welcome to the programme. we're on air a little early this morning, until 10, to make way for coverage of the queen's speech, which starts at 10 o'clock on bbc one. what do you want to see the government focusing on? is it even worth the government having a queen's speech when it's likely there will be an election soon, and brexit isn't sorted? let me know. use the hashtag #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you, and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include
your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. by the end of this week, we should have a clearer idea of whether we are going to leave the eu on 31st october, whether we will do so with a deal or not, and whether there may even be another referendum or an election to decide. but later this morning, the focus will shift away, briefly, from brexit. the queen's speech will introduce the government's proposed bills for the new parliamentary session. there are 22 bills planned, including measures on criminal justice, mental health and reform of the railways. but boris johnson doesnt have a majority in the house but borisjohnson doesn't have a majority in the house of commons, so there's no guarantee any of the government's plans will get passed by mps. before we talk to voters about what they want the government's priority to be, let's have a quick chat with our political guru norman smith. good morning, norman. so, first of all, just tell us what is going to be in the queen's speech? well, we've got 22 different measures,
which is quite a sizeable package of legislation, a big chunk of it devoted to law and order, a tough package on cracking down on foreign offenders who are criminals, cracking down on people who are convicted of serious offences, saying they can no longer receive pa role saying they can no longer receive parole after they've served half their sentences. there are also quite sweeping measures on reforming the railways, doing away with the old franchising structure, there will be a new immigration system, there's talk about looking at new measures on social care and mental health, so, it is quite a significant package. the problem is, it isa significant package. the problem is, it is a slightly phony queen's speech. normally, when we have a queen's speech, this place is a buzz, there is a tension in the air, there really isn't today, and the reason is because bluntly, no—one things any of this is going to happen anytime soon. and it's not just because of the great hulking storm cloud of brexit which has to be resolved, and i think everybody accepts that is going to have to be sorted before any of these
measures com plete sorted before any of these measures complete implemented, but the very simple parliamentary arithmetic, that boris johnson simple parliamentary arithmetic, that borisjohnson does not have a majority get any of these measures through. and we know all the votes he's had in the commons, all the significant votes so far, he has lost everyone. so you're scratching your head and thinking, how is he going to get these bills through? and really, the only way any of these measures gets through is if he changes the arithmetic in the commons, which means a general election. so we are in a slightly unreal situation, we have got a big chunky wish list of proposals which the government would like to do but in practice they can't do, while we all wait for the outcome of a general election, quite possibly before the end of the year. norman, thanks for that, we will be back with you later on to get your thoughts on brexit as well. let's throw it open to our audience members. with us today are a teacher, a nurse, a business owner, an army veteran, a pharmacist. also with us is the conservative mp daniel kawcynski,
who is a firm believer in brexit, the labour mp lloyd russell—moyle, and christine jardine from the liberal democrats. thank you all of you for coming into day, great to see you. i want to start by talking to you about the queen's speech, and what you would like to see in it. debbie, you run a small business, so for you, what is important to hear today?|j small business, so for you, what is important to hear today? i would really like to see a lot of support for small and medium businesses, things like relief, certain reliefs, whether it be on business taxes, basically onjust whether it be on business taxes, basically on just how to get ourselves onto the high street. i provide a service —based business, but when i actually go down my high street, lots and lots of smaller business owners aren't able to rent out those shop units and keep our, if you like, keep our pennies and our budgets, within our own high street. there should be a lot of relief for these small businesses,
people are encouraged to and their own living and i want to see the government behind that.|j own living and i want to see the government behind that. i can see you are nodding, you are a sheep farming, so, foryou, we you are nodding, you are a sheep farming, so, for you, we will get into brexit in a while, but is there anything you feel you could be hearing today which would help you? yeah, certainly better protection for the environment as a whole. and also continued support for agriculture, to enable farmers to produce food for less than the cost of production, which they have been doing quite successfully for the la st doing quite successfully for the last 40 years. and margaret, we were talking earlier on, you have been a carerfor many years, and talking earlier on, you have been a carer for many years, and social ca re carer for many years, and social care is a massive issue for you? absolutely, it's been the issue which has been talked about for years and it affects us all at some time in ourlife. years and it affects us all at some time in our life. and it has to be sorted. because it's collapsing, the whole system is collapsing at the moment. budgets are being reduced year by year and yet,
we have more people that are dependent, whether they are children, adults or people like myself in later life. you know, it's a massive problem and it has got to be addressed because it's affecting healthcare. if we have better social care support, wrapping around healthcare, then we will solve some of the problems of the health service. i want to bring in our politicians, daniel kawczynski, lots of people wanting a lot from the queen's speech, how is this queen's speech costed today because there seems to be quite a lot of giveaways but it is not clear where the money is coming from? when we took over from labour, the money is coming from? when we took overfrom labour, this the money is coming from? when we took over from labour, this country was borrowing £140 billion a year, so, for every £4 was borrowing £140 billion a year, so, for every e4 the government was spending, so, for every £4 the government was spending, £1 was borrowed. every year we have reduced the level of the annual structural deficit, every year, so that now we are
borrowing about £15 billion to £20 billion, and we are on course to run a balanced budget for the first time since the year 2000. when you're running a balanced budget, you have for the first time in a decade opportunities, you have various options. so, we can either reduce taxation, as this lady is clearly wanting as a small business owner. debbie. debbie. or we wanting as a small business owner. debbie. debbie. orwe can wanting as a small business owner. debbie. debbie. or we can increase public funding for public services, or we can have a combination of the two. so what is it going to be? it's going to have to be a combination of the two. but i want the memos of the audience to know something that nobody talks to me about when i knock on the doors in shrewsbury, is that, we are spending at the moment over £40 billion of their money every year servicing the national debt. that is money that is just being poured down the drain. and so, it has been very, very important to get the deficit down. i don't apologise for that, we call it living within our means, the labour party call it austerity, we call it
living within your means... and now we are running a balanced budget, we can we are running a balanced budget, we ca n start we are running a balanced budget, we can start to increase funding, but you've got to have a sound economic structure. so, austerity is over? theresa may was saying there was no magic money tree, and it feels like the tree has been pulled out again? well, if you have been making very difficult decisions for ten years, and we have been through the worst financial crisis this country has been through since the 1930s, we made those tough decisions, we are now running a balanced budget, of course we are want to —— going to wa nt to course we are want to —— going to want to open up the purse strings a little in order to deal with the issue which is the number one issue facing my constituents, adult social ca re costs in facing my constituents, adult social care costs in shropshire, it is the biggest problem my council is facing because shropshire is a place where many people retire to and they simply don't have the resources to deal with all the people that need long—term care. deal with all the people that need long-term care. is itjust a danger that the queen today is just
doing an election manifesto for the conservative party, because the reality is, if there is going to be a general election, how many of these 22 bills are actually come going to come to fruition?” these 22 bills are actually come going to come to fruition? i am glad you asked me that because i wanted to get this off my chest. we have asked for an election twice already and both labour and the lib dems have refused to grant us an election and now some of those people are saying they don't want an election, they want a referendum. so, this is a zombie parliament and we can't allow it to be a zombie parliament, we wa nt allow it to be a zombie parliament, we want a queen's speech to outline the things which matter to people in this audience, such as prison sentences and how we're going to be running the economy. we will get into elections and brexit further on, but christine, you are putting some faces...? i find it on, but christine, you are putting some faces. . . ? i find it astonishing that all of the things that people are saying here today, i agree we need to address them, i find it astonishing that daniel can say, quite politely, yes, we will do that, when we know that brexit will
have a similar impact, from the government's own papers back in 2018, brexit will have a similar impact on the economy to the financial crash. we can't address these problems properly, we can't improve education, we can't improve social care, we can't do anything for small businesses, if we are going to come out of the european union, particularly if we crash out. we have to resolve that issue first. and there isn't a deal with the european union which is as good for us, for our children, for our economy or a businesses, is the one that we've already got. why damage that? well, i agree that there probably is not a deal that is going to be better than the deal we've got. let's just to be better than the deal we've got. let'sjust focused on the queen's speech for a moment... but that... that is why any deal needs to go back to the people. but the content of the queen's speech is about trying to close the stable after the horse has bolted. so,
if we look at the crisis on our high streets, for example. why aren't we actually talking about abolishing business rates, which are a flat rate that you have to pay upfront before you've made any profit, and looking at increasing taxes on the profit that you make? that would be not reducing the overall tax burden but making sure people pay in the right way. because at the moment the local bookshop ends up paying more proportional tax than amazon in a big warehouse. so, the reason these things aren't happening is because it seems that all the political parties want to do is to work against the government. in a nutshell, we are in this great big soup of mess, we actually have a government, whether you like it or not, whether or not you support it, we have somebody that either you get behind the driving force, or you muddy the waters are so much that all these things that are important to voters, regardless of what it is... gets muddied, it gets die luthi, it gets muddied, and
actually... it's not, we're not the ones who are working against the government, we are working for what we think is in the national interest. but each party's voice is louder than the person or the party which is trying, adversely, to make movement and... no, i'm sorry... the conservative party has done more damage to this country... in your opinion. look at the numbers, he took over with a majority, he now has a minority, the person who did thatis has a minority, the person who did that is borisjohnson. has a minority, the person who did that is boris johnson. the opinion polls show a huge increase in support for the conservative party. but we know that opinion polls... it depends which one you look at.” actually think it is rather disgusting to say that we should get behind the government. first of which we are the opposition, ourjob is to put an opposing view. secondly, this is a government which has caused more than 100,000 early
deaths because of their austerity programme, so the idea that i should get behind a government which has helped kill citizens of this country i think is a disgrace for thing to say. the problem is for viewers at home and for some of the people here, it is quite a confusing message. they are at home saying, hang on, you're not happy with the government, and back you can have an election... we are going to have an election! but only... we're going to have the election, i got a bit excited! but we are not going to let it bea excited! but we are not going to let it be a trap where the government then pulls us out of europe behind closed doors, puts forward a deal which will destroy our economy. so we have said we need to make sure that we have all of those safeguards first, because we know that boris is a proven liar. he's been sacked twice for lying in the past from previousjobs this is twice for lying in the past from previous jobs this is a man the country can't trust, we had to go to the court to stop the illegal prorogation. when that is sorted, we will make sure we go straight to an election. next, a pharmacist? i am
a pharmacist in south bristol, and i think one of the things that we are aware of is that brexit has really sucked out a lot of the energy and the vision in our country. for my people in south bristol, i think the real concerns that they have is how we address health inequalities and outcomes, and community pharmacies are important in that. a lot of us are important in that. a lot of us are small businesses so when you talk about high streets closing down, community pharmacists are sometimes the bastian holding out for that. so there is an opportunity in this queen's speech for some of the great rhetoric and platitudes which we receive from politicians to become action. and also we are the intersection between health and social care so actually investing in community pharmacies helps to deliver the chronic need for urgent healthcare provision, face—to—face, in communities. and what we want to see is actually support and investment. and i think there is this opportunity and i am asking, is that something we are going to see from the tory party today, and are the other party is really ready to
put money and principles and actions to see that come true? would you like to add that first? before i answer that specifically i would like to respond to something the business lady here said. we couldn't agree with you more. i object to borisjohnson being called a liar. he is not a liar and we have got to get away from that personal appalling language, castigating people. but whether you like it or not, he is our representative. we have sent him into bat. he is waiting to receive the first balls from the european union and these people are trying to break his back before he takes the first ball. answer this point, please. you are very similarto answer this point, please. you are very similar to everybody else in my constituency of shrewsbury. you quite rightly want us to focus on
your industry. you want the british parliament to be more focused in terms of changing regulation and taxation to support you and the business that you do. that is why we have got to get brexit out of the way so that we can start to focus on the day—to—day issues that affect your life. and so far, the last three years it hasjust been a brexit merry—go—round. if you are to come with us back to the house of commons and see what goes on day in and day out, it isjust a squabble between the parties about brexit. they should respect that the people voted for brexit and my colleague from the lib dems, her answer is we are not interested and we are going to overturn the results. that is not my answer. would you like to hear my answer? can we talk about brexit in answer? can we talk about brexit in a moment? i'm really keen to focus on the queen's speech but i know that brexit underlies everything. with all due regard to you, i think my position, and this goes across all health care professionals, is that while brexit is important there are burning issues for us, our patients and health needs and
health inequalities. that is going to last longer than brexit. some of the long—term damage in communities are becoming intergenerational. if we are not addressing that lack of parity, we are letting down a whole generation and the whole country. parity, we are letting down a whole generation and the whole countrym terms of the nhs, you sold are disillusioned to us with the bus, saying it was £350 million a week. working in the nhs were so many years, the last 20 years or so, that was a total catastrophe. we have a 40,000 deficit in terms of nursing recruitment. the bursary has been scrapped for nurses that need to be recruited. there is a ten year nhs plan which needs to work and without it working it needs resources. i think we need to sleep something positive within the nhs. —— we need to see something. did you vote to leave because of the £350 million on the side of the bus? yes,
that was exactly what i voted for because that was the dissolution that you sold us. most of the nhs staff would have turned around and thought they would get £350 million in their purse, great for patient care and facilities and the research that we need. borisjohnson turned facilities and the research that we need. boris johnson turned around and said that brexit is costing £1 billion a month and three years on thatis billion a month and three years on that is 36 billion plus, that is equal to the divorce bill that we need to give after 31st of october. that is a total of 78 billion or 80 billion that we could have spent that could have been resolved in this country, not just the that could have been resolved in this country, notjust the nhs but the homeless, social care, marrying that marriage between health and social care. according to the house of commons library we have handed over since wejoined in of commons library we have handed over since we joined in 1972 over £590 billion. just answer the point that he makes. he explicitly voted to leave because on the side of that but it said £350 million a week would go to the
nhs. —— that bus. as an nhs worker, he thought this is what the organisation i work for really needs. i had a row during the referendum campaign because i went to see them and i said this figure of 350 million, why are you using the gross figure? it should be the net figure, 200 million. we give them 350 million a week and we get 150 million back, so the net figure is about 200 million. christine says we don't give it to them but we do. borisjohnson is we don't give it to them but we do. boris johnson is now we don't give it to them but we do. borisjohnson is now prime minister off the back of this commitment which has now been found to be false. we still haven't left the european union. with all respect, whether it is 350 million or £200 million a week, it was a promise that it would go back into the nhs and that is what it was. the bus clearly said that, whether it is 100 million, 200 million, the point was
it would go back to the nhs and that hasn't been delivered. we have a shortage of nurses and a shortage of adolescent mental health services. we have services that are so deprived in the community and in major hospitals that need money. we are backed into a corner. there is also an increasing medication and medication bills and what are we going to do about it? it is all a question of choices. you have a cake and you cut it up in a certain way. lam and you cut it up in a certain way. i am proud of the fact that we have increased the threshold of one people pay taxation from £6,500 to £12,000, which is important hard—working families. but we could solve all your problems by taking three actions tomorrow. no nuclear weapons. that is something there is not a majority for in this country because the majority of people in this country want britain to be a nuclear power. no foreign aid budget, £15 billion a year, and we spend more on foreign aid than
france and italy combined, and no money to the european union, £14 billion a year. is this government policy? of course it isn't but those are the sort of choices that you can make and you have got to make and you can't make these choices because there isn't a majority in the country to reduce the foreign aid budget not to get rid of nuclear weapons. there are pressures on the budget from all sides. we are clearly getting onto brexit. we try to bat it away and we failed miserably. i will go through these comments. on twitter: the queen's speech is completely ludicrous. this buy minister has not been elected by the british people. the government is 40 short on the majority and borisjohnson cares not a jot for the british constitution. and this one: borisjohnson the british constitution. and this one: boris johnson makes the british constitution. and this one: borisjohnson makes the queen's speech a pointless state opening costing thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money. and david on facebook: about time an election should be forced and the remain
mps should be forced and the remain mps should be forced and the remain mps should be jobless and with no pension. overshadowing everything in their speeches brexit and the prime minister is trying to agree a deal with the eu for mps to vote on later this week. if negotiations break down, there is a question bent over whether boris johnson down, there is a question bent over whether borisjohnson will try down, there is a question bent over whether boris johnson will try to leave the eu on the 31st of october a nyway leave the eu on the 31st of october anyway without a deal, even though mps have voted to try to prevent that happening. or whether he will have to ask the eu for more time. it is also possible that mps might try and attach a referendum to any deal that he manages to negotiate. before we talk more about that with our voters and mps, let's go back to norman once more. we are hearing reports that borisjohnson is having pressure applied on him by the eu to make more concessions in order to reach a deal. is that what you are hearing also? we are hearing quite a bit from the eu side. we are hearing precisely nothing from the british
side. they are in lockdown in terms of briefing and they will not say anything while the negotiations are going on. their thinking is that if they start briefing it adds distraction and it can bring in tension and complicate things. in other words, you can derail negotiations if you start providing too many variables around it. they are saying they will not talk about it. we do know from michel barnier a rough outline of what seems to be going on. it does look as though borisjohnson is going on. it does look as though boris johnson is going going on. it does look as though borisjohnson is going back to what was one of mrs may's original ideas, which was rubbished at the time by brexiteers, but which now seems to have new traction because bluntly we are running out of time and we haven't been able to identify this mythical landing zone. we seem to be going back to this quite complicated idea, but basically what it would involve is having a sort of double customs border for northern involve is having a sort of double customs borderfor northern ireland. all those goods coming from great britain to northern ireland would be able to go into northern ireland no
problem under existing uk customs policy. however those goods going into northern ireland on the way to the eu, they would face eu tariffs, which we, the brits, would administer and collect and hand over to the eu. so it is complicated but the big plus about it, if you are still with me, is that it means you do not have to have any customs controls on the island of ireland, which is a complete no—no for dublin and also for the eu, because they believe that is a physical embodiment of the divide and the troubles, and it threatens the whole peace process. this would be a way of getting round it. the big caution is that we have heard nothing about this from number 10. this isjust the eu version of what they say borisjohnson is the eu version of what they say boris johnson is looking the eu version of what they say borisjohnson is looking at. but perhaps they have found something to talk about which could yet pave the way to an agreement. thank you, norman, for updating us on that. i
wa nt to norman, for updating us on that. i want to bring in some other guys that have not yet spoken. rebecca, you work for a food bank in london, just a few miles the road. when you are thinking about the experiences of the people who come and use your food bank, how does brexit feed into that, do you think? i think for many of them it is distracting from the issues that are really affecting them. things like welfare reform, universal credit, it is having a huge detrimental impact on their lives and their day—to—day realities. they just lives and their day—to—day realities. theyjust seems so lives and their day—to—day realities. they just seems so far removed, the issue of brexit, from their experience. the things they wa nt to their experience. the things they want to see our the domestic policy issues like changes to the benefit system, which means they have enough money to buy food for themselves, to be able to go into a supermarket, buy food, and have enough to feed theirfamilies. buy food, and have enough to feed their families. and i would like to bring you in
as well. you are an assistant headteacher at a state school. we have family who are petrified about what will happen to them and also their parents and i believe it is marginalising those communities, and a flint is not in the european union. what is happening is misrepresentation, that anybody who is not british might have to leave and they are frightened about what might happen in the future and then it is a massive distraction because it is affecting their mental health and well—being, affecting their mental health and well— being, and therefore affecting their mental health and well—being, and therefore we are having to tackle that when we are supposed to be teaching the children. we are just preparing them to cope with the current crisis. and i want to bring you in, chris. we have not spoken to you yet. the military veteran. aisha spoke there about mental health and i know that isa about mental health and i know that is a big issue for veterans. do you worry that brexit is overshadowing everything and the help that
is needed? i believe we find ourselves atan needed? i believe we find ourselves at an event horizon. i believe that brexit is the crucial political element of this year. and boris johnson has taken shots from europe and from the opposition. we really do have to weather the storm at this point. iam hearing do have to weather the storm at this point. i am hearing a lot of numbers and statistics. fortunately i am not and statistics. fortunately i am not a politician. being a soldier, i can tell you that the effect on the ground is that servicemen and women are taking their own lives. the nhs is not prepared for that deluge of individuals who need that support. many of my colleagues are struggling and the nhs is referring them to charities who are also referring them to other charities. together we do need to buckle down at this point and get these guys some help. i believe that brexit is important however it is overshadowing a lot of theissues however it is overshadowing a lot of the issues that all of us are talking about. as a show of hands,
do you think that the issues that matter to you are being forgotten because of brexit? yes, absolutely. everyone? yes. i would agree. because of brexit? yes, absolutely. everyone? yes. iwould agree. i would absolutely agree. brexit is sucking the life out of british society and issues like shortage of nurses in the nhs, brexit will make that worse. food banks are going to be more stretched. daniel, we all know that leaving the european union with or without a deal would only be the start of brexit. we would have another decade of it. what you are saying about the children in your school being afraid, i spoke to children in my constituency of edinburgh west, and one of the girls in the classes from a hungarian family. and she is terrified of what it will mean for her. settled status, it is so confused. the government says one thing and then another. and it is not going to be possible to have everyone
with settled status in time, if they are ever able to figure out what settled status will mean for them. this government is responsible for that fear. when are you going to take responsibility for the fact that this government has created a hostile climate for immigrants? we had the windrush scandal. children worried in school that they will be sent back to a country that they we re sent back to a country that they were not born in. and we have a society that is having the life blood sucked out of it by this endless debate about something which we all know, including the government because they have the papers, will damage this country's economy in the same way as the financial crash did. we did not have a choice over that and we do over this. we have been saying for three yea rs this. we have been saying for three years that everyone here, including us, should have the final say on whether or not we go through with the deal in a referendum. and that is what we need to do. well, i am very upset and cross about that. i am the first of a polish born
british member of parliament, and i speak to a lot of the polish diaster in this country and there are overi million polish people now settled in the uk, and i hope the teacher... aisha, who were saying that there are concerns aisha, who were saying that there are concerns being expressed. i hope you are telling them and reassuring them that the government and the house of commons has made it absolutely unequivocal that they will have the right to stay in this country, deal or no deal. you have got to understand that on the ground, regardless of any reassurance , when a ground, regardless of any reassurance, when a child is walking home and they are dealing with a memberof the home and they are dealing with a member of the public spitting on them and punching that in the face because they do not want that in the country, that is what happens to some children because people have the rhetoric in their minds that we do not want them here. when children have got to go through that, it doesn't matter what reassurance i give that child, they have got to suffer and when i want to get mental health support, i can't get it because they are inundated and the threshold is so high. what is a reality for those children
and their families? this is the problem. we have created a politics of identity because of brexit. british nationalism which is seeping into society and damaging the very... well, we have it in scotland as well. it is seeping into the very fabric of society and it is ruining peoples lives and it is damaging their mental health and their livelihoods. we have got to stop it and it is not good for any of us.” wa nt and it is not good for any of us.” want to get back to a system whereby irrespective of where you come from and yourskin irrespective of where you come from and your skin colour, that we have the same access to our labour markets, whether you are indian or romanian. that is not the case at the moment because as a member of the moment because as a member of the european union, the white europeans get instantaneous access to our labour markets and people from the commonwealth don't. i would consider the current european union migration policy as being racist.
hang on for a moment. let's drill down to the crux of the issue here. with brexit you are saying there are all these problems which have gone on for years and you are more or less ashamed of the behaviour of mps in the house of commons. does that mean on the 31st of october if boris johnson is not successful in coming toa johnson is not successful in coming to a new agreement that is also ratified by mps, should there be no questions asked, britain leaves the european union on the 31st of october, come what may with no deal if necessary? answer the question.” am. but everybody in a document put their hand up to say, yes, my problem has been overshadowed by brexit. that is why i voted for the deal on the third time of asking. but if there is no deal, is no—deal the right way forward? is it right that britain should leave with no deal on the 31st of october? we have got to leave on the 31st of october. it has been such a debilitating process for us. our international
reputation is starting to be damaged because of the constant delays and obfuscation. this lady and this gentleman, if they had voted for the deal, this would have been sorted out and we would have left. now they are demanding another referendum so that we have another six—month delay. please be honest. you don't acce pt delay. please be honest. you don't accept the result and you want to stay in the european union. typically, you think the conservative government should break the law on the 31st of october and leave with no deal? i met with four barristers in the house of commons la st barristers in the house of commons last week and they were giving me legal advice about loopholes in the ban act. is this the same legal advice that boris johnson got when the supreme court had to vote it down? let's look at the reality. if we end up leaving with no deal or evenif we end up leaving with no deal or even if we get some shoddy deal that johnson is likely to come up with, it means ten plus years
of negotiations with other countries. we already have free trade agreements with a third of the commonwealth, kenyan, uganda and the caribbean, and we have that at the moment, and we have the ability at the moment to give access to indians and africans and everyone to come into this country. that is our choice, the terms on which they come to. if you suggest anything else, you're like your prime minister, not telling the truth. let's get back to theissues telling the truth. let's get back to the issues that do matter. for example i brought in a bill which would restore legal aid and legal support for people who are homeless in this country. something the liberal and tory coalition removed from people facing eviction and housing issues. it would have cost nothing because it was taking the interest profits from the deposits and giving it back to the people. conservative party members and ministers came up to me and said it was a great idea. i produced the bill but there was no time for these things to proceed and the government will not pick it up. i introduced la st will not pick it up. i introduced last year a bill for youth work so
we could get proper mental health services and early intervention as well. it would have cost minimal amounts of money. it was about reorganising the server and it worked more efficiently. the government will not bring it forward. the labour party has put forward. the labour party has put forward the idea that social care should be a national service linked to the nhs said there is a better move on beds and care. it will not solve the issue that we have got to put money in that it helped to reorganise it. it is notjust about money that good ideas and ways of running the country but the conservatives are just running down the country. i want to know where you sit as a labour mp. do you sit with your leader, jeremy corbyn, saying there should not be another referendum before an election? or withjohn mcdonnell referendum before an election? or with john mcdonnell and referendum before an election? or withjohn mcdonnell and rebecca long—bailey, and say there should be a referendum before an election? but my understanding of the policy and what jeremy actually said is that our preference of course is that we secure the extension. we have a general election and then we go into negotiate a deal. but
if burrows comes forward with a deal, and i doubt he will do actually. —— boris. and if he doesn't, we have to vote for theresa may's deal because that is the kennett amendment, actually putting in a people's that at this stage could be a desirable option. —— peoples vote. stage could be a desirable option. -- peoples vote. more people would be inclined to support a deal if there was a referendum and i would caution them on this. rebecca long—bailey and john mcdonnell were saying absolutely not and there should be a second referendum before any election. are you with your leader or these mps?” any election. are you with your leader or these mps? i am with the policy of the labour party which is ever credible deal comes forward from johnson, and i don't think he will, and that is why there will be caution about it, because we are talking about the johnson deal and there is no deal at the moment. that is why they are keeping quiet.
europe is a polite organisation who will not shoot him down before he lays out his wares but when he does we will see that it is fun to seek policy. so here wants another referendum? show of hands. two people. and who wants no—deal? something that is in our best national interest. we need to get out now. we can't move on and we can't invest in our future business because we don't know where we will go. but there will be ten years of negotiation which will mean we don't know what our relationship is with kenny, canada and america but at the moment we do know. there will be a clear pathway. we can't have any goal that we are all working to. will you allow me to speak? at the moment there are two things that have come out. as a group we have managed to overshadow the green speed, so clearly brexit is the most important thing on every single person's clips. —— overshadowed
the queen's speech. and secondly regardless of what one person says to another, i have done this, i have done the other, actually no. we voted you in. it is not about you taking the glory for what you consider you have done and arguing with colleagues. why can you not just work cohesively, as in any productive, successful business in the private sector? talks have been going on, we all know this, cross— party going on, we all know this, cross—party talks. going on, we all know this, cross-party talks. but you want to be separate in scotland.” cross-party talks. but you want to be separate in scotland. i don't, actually. i am be separate in scotland. i don't, actually. iam not be separate in scotland. i don't, actually. i am not a scottish nationalist. i think nationalism, whether it is scottish, english, british, any other country in the world, is a bad thing because it separates people and it puts an identity on them and it tells them they are different. i don't agree with nationalism. but what i can say is that people in the opposition parties are working together.
against the government. your leader, jo swinson... i am against the government. your leader, jo swinson. .. i am working for my constituents. my constituencies voted to remain by a majority. jo swinson has said she would not come together with the other parties had allowed jeremy corbyn. .. that is not what she said. will you support jeremy corbyn? she said he would not command the support in the house of commons. that is what she said. jeremy doesn't have the numbers. hang on! if there is no—deal brexit, do you worry that voters will look back and remember that it was the lib dems who didn't even givejeremy corbyn a chance? it is not the lib dems. who else are saying no? the snp and labourare dems. who else are saying no? the snp and labour are keen. can i finish, please? if you look at the numbers in the house of commons, there are not the numbers even with
there are not the numbers even with the liberal democrats to vote for him because there are 21 tory mps who will not vote for him. some of them will do. let me finish, please! there are not the numbers in the house to support jeremy there are not the numbers in the house to supportjeremy corbyn. however there may be the number to support somebody else and that is in the national interest and what we should be doing. from today's conversation what you find is that brexit becomes acrimonious and a passionate dispute. but on the flip side of this, as a health care professional, i look at my health ca re professional, i look at my health care colleagues, irrespective of our brexit position, which may be individual, there is a consensus which says we need to do what is best for our patients and our country. i think from information and the data and the things i have heard, and some other things that aisha had said, and the issues around small businesses, we need to ask ourselves the question which is the direction we are facing.
the cliff edge. we have gaps in our workforce which will not be fulfilled in a no—deal scenario. these are things which should make us think about our approach and our policies. you want to come in? the idea of having a second referendum isa idea of having a second referendum is a good idea, positively, for the people, who have now decided we know what a clear view of brexit looks like three years on and we can change our minds if we need to. we can't keep replaying it.” change our minds if we need to. we can't keep replaying it. i know that but i am certainly somebody on the fa ns but i am certainly somebody on the fans who would change my mind. —— on the fence. we have research budgets with the eu and so many other budgets that come with the eu. it is something we need to consider.” think this is such an illustration really of hot air, wasted breath. i think we have lost confidence in the politicians. all we see is this sort of argument. of course you oppose
each other but it is such a big thing like this and you have got to reach some conclusion. i have not been one of the apparently older people who voted for brexit. i did not vote for brexit. but now we have got to reach somewhere. whatever solution you have, you say if we go out without a deal, there will be ten years of discussion, will there be ten years of discussion anyway? we are going to find out because a 30 of october is around the corner, as we know. —— the 31st of october. thank you for coming in. there will be continued coverage of the queen's speech live on the bbc news channel and bbc one. have a good day.
since the second world war — and this chamber of the house of commons is very much the focal point of the national debate on brexit, and will sit in emergency session this coming saturday for the first time in nearly 40 years. later this morning the chamber will be full, and the prime minister and leader of the opposition will lead mps to the house of lords to hear the speech delivered by the queen at the state opening of parliament.
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