tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News October 29, 2019 10:00am-11:00am GMT
hello, it's tuesday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. a leaked report seen by this programme says fewer people would have died in the grenfell tower disaster if the london fire brigade had not told residents to stay in their flats and wait to be rescued. i've seen the entire 1,000 pages of the official inquiry report. it is heavily critical of the london fire brigade and the response of emergency services that night. the union representing rank and file firefighters the inquiry is "back to front" and should be focussing on why the building was dangerous the truth is that that fire spread
how we did because it was wrapped in flammable cladding, that is a key issue and yet it is not seriously being addressed. the firefighters turned up after that happens, after the building was turned, in reality, into a death trap. the prime minister will try today for a fourth time to secure an early general election in december. i hope that opposition party members would want to trust the public, let them have a say. they had seemed determined not to deliver on the referendum but i think it is time that at this stage, to make sure we can deliver on brexit, we let the general public have a say. it looks like game on for a winter election, with borisjohnson like game on for a winter election, with boris johnson looking like game on for a winter election, with borisjohnson looking set to achieve backing for his december poll. will it be december the 9th, tenth or 11th, and will that be a deal—breaker?
and while politicians literally argue over a data... in today's exclusive film, we expose the scandalous housing conditions of people living in the capital city of the fifth largest economy in the world — london. they tell us they're being "left to rot" — as they cope with damp, mould, flooding, drug users injecting thesemselves outside their front door. and cockroaches. they were massive, they was coming out, they were all on my sites, on my counters, in the microwave, in the bathroom. they was absolutely everywhere. i said we can't carry on living here, we are not living how people should be living. we'll hear more from annie, who you saw there, and from ken loach, who in 1966 directed a landmark film that highlighted the devastating impact of homelessness on a young mother and her children. we meet the boy who — at the age of eight — saved his mum's life. mum?! mum?! what's wrong?! mum?!”
was absolutely horrified to see a terrified looking young lad steering the car. i genuinely believe that if he did not do what he did, our story would have been completely different. we would have been seriously injured all could have died. 0ther seriously injured all could have died. other people could have got involved or been hurt. i am very proud. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. you've been getting in touch with us already about our exclusive film on the appalling conditions that some families in a block of flats in barnet are living in. emma jayne on twitter says, "people have to start helping themselves. sitting back and doing nothing is not an option. build a community, implement
neighborhood wardens, help each other take back control of your streets. a council—owned disused building for addicts is maybe a solution, with rehab services? " stuart on twitter says, "it is a scandal. need to get back to a 60/40 split on social housing/home ownership or closer to that, or it will continue." and brian on email says, "my autistic daughter has suffered —— we will bring you the exclusive film on 18 minutes. before that, carrie has a summary of the news. —— bring you the exclusive film in a fume in its. the london fire brigade has been condemned for systematic failures in its response to the grenfell tower fire, in a report into the disaster which claimed 72 lives. the inquiry found that fewer people would have died if the building had been evacuated sooner. the fire brigade said would not comment until the full report is published tomorrow. we have seen that report, and will have more details later in the programme.
borisjohnson will try for a fourth time to secure an early general election, after mps rejected his plan. the prime minister will publish a bill proposing a poll on 12th december that would only need a simple majority to succeed — not two—thirds as required in previous attempts. however, he will still need votes from opposition parties for it to pass. residents living in the one remaining block of flats on a north london estate undergoing redevelopment say they are being "left to rot," with pest infestations and security issues. families living here are coping with cockroaches, damp, mould and flooding — while drug addicts inject heroin on the stairs. barnet homes told the programme it was extremely sorry for the standard of some homes on marsh drive. they don't care. they don't have to live like that. they are knocking this down, they don't want to put money into it. we are social cleansing at its best. like, we should feel... deserve to have this place and we should be happy that we live in these conditions and that our children live like this. but they genuinely do not care.
we'll have more on our exclusive investigation later in the programme — and will talk to some of the residents. politician keith vaz was admitted to hospital yesterday after the commons standard body recommended is be suspended from parliament for six months. —— recommended he be suspended. the labour mp was found to have "disregarded" the law by "expressing a willingness" to help buy cocaine for male prostitutes. mr vaz‘s office would not comment on his future but said he was receiving treatment for a serious mental health condition. two british people have been seriously injured in a shark attack in australia. the men in their 20s were in the water off the coast of queensland when it happened. one of the men had his foot bitten off and the other suffered wounds to his calf. both are said to be in a stable condition in hospital. an infectious disease that can harm the brain and is spread by tick bites has been identified in insects in the uk for the first time. the tick—borne encephalitis
virus has been found in east anglia and close to the hampshire—dorset border. symptoms of the disease include seizures, hallucinations and memory problems but public health england says the risk is very low. that is a summary of the main news so that is a summary of the main news so far. back to you, victoria. first this morning, fewer people would have died in the grenfell tower disaster if the london fire brigade had not told residents to stay in their flats and wait to be rescued, the official report into the tragedy has found. this programme has seen a full copy of the inquiry report which is due to be made public tomorrow. that will be at 10am. it says fire chiefs should have ordered an evacuation of the building one hour earlier than they did. it's been reported that 49 of the 72 people who died injune 2017 were told by 999 call handlers to "stay put" inside their flats. 0ur reporterjim reed has read
the full document which runs to more than 1,000 pages. jim? you will have to bear with me, it is 1000 pages, quite complicated. some background first. the report has been written as part of the public inquiry into the grenfell disaster in which 72 people lost their lives. that inquiry is led by a retired judge, sir martin moore—bick. it is the first of two reports. this one looks at the events of the night itself, 14th june 2017. a later part looks at what happened before that day, the refurbishment of the tower, the cladding etc, this is specifically the night itself. this was due to be published tomorrow at tannane. we saw a leaked copy earlier, we had every intention of broadcasting this to our attorney
and, but it is the front page of the daily telegraph today, it is in the public domain, so we feel the need to talk about it. takers through some of the damning conclusions? there is intense criticism of the fire service in this report. not, it has to be said, of individual firefighters, the report is at pains to point out they showed extraordinary bravery, it talks about their commitment. this is not about their commitment. this is not about their commitment. this is not about the people who fought in to the building to save people, it is about the chain of command. the bravery cannot mask deficiencies in the command and control that night, it says. the most controversial part is perhaps something called the state put policy. you and i were both at grenfell tower on the morning of the 1ath, we were already hearing survivors talking about this
stay put policy, people were calling 999 until two stay inside and wait for rescue, it was the safest option. that was standard practice at the time. this report says that by1:50am at at the time. this report says that by 1:50am at the latest, the fire service should have known it was not working, yet the policy was continued until 2:47am, perhaps an hour and continued until 2:47am, perhaps an hourand a continued until 2:47am, perhaps an hour and a half after they should have realised it was not working. the report says that has led to people losing their lives. the report says it is likely that in the face of the rapidly developing fire, prompt evacuation would have resulted in the saving of more lives, and it says it would have been likely to result in fewer fatalities. that is stark and clear from the retired judge. who does the report blamed for the decision to tell residents to stay put for as long as they did? first of all it
talks about the fire officer in charge that night, for an hour after the fire started, was a relatively junior officer. a questions that decision. more senior officers had arrived but the morejunior officer was kept in charge and there is criticism there. more broadly basic comes down to training, the report describes the stapler to policy —— the stay put policy as an article of faith in the fire service. they said that to evacuate at that stage, to all intents and purposes, was unthinkable. they thought it would be easier to stick with the policy of stay put. there is criticism again, they say they need to think more widely and realise it was not working. there is specific and damning criticism of the country's most seniorfirefighter damning criticism of the country's most senior firefighter at that point, the commissioner of the london fire brigade? this is a woman called da ny london fire brigade? this is a woman called dany cotton, commissioner of the london fire brigade. she angered
many relatives with her evidence to the inquiry. this is what she said when giving evidence to the inquiry in september 2018. commissioner, if there was one aspect of the london fire brigade's response to the fire that you could go back and change, what would it be? i wouldn't change anything we did on the night. i think, without exception, my firefighters, officers and control staff performed in a fantastic way given the incredible circumstances they faced. they were put into an untenable situation, a building that behaves in a way which had never hadn't, that that the residence' lives at risk. without a shadow of a doubt i was responsible to committing my firefighters to their potential death in the pursuance of rescuing as many people in the building as possible. we learn from every operational incident, but in the same manner that i would not develop a training package for a space shuttle to land on the shard,
we would deal with it in the same professional manner that we do, that is an incident in the same scale. i would not expect is to provide training and response to something which should not happen. two things she said very much angered relatives at the time. she said she wouldn't change anything about the fire service's response that night, even with hindsight. secondly, she compared the lack of training for firefighters to deal with a fire of that magnitude involving a high—rise block and cladding to no more likely than a space shuttle landing on the shard. that kind of language was heavily criticised in the report by sirmartin heavily criticised in the report by sir martin moore—bick, he describes it as showing a remarkable insensitivity to the families of the deceased and those who had escaped from burning homes with their lives. this is important, he goes on to say that it only serves to demonstrate that it only serves to demonstrate that the london fire brigade is an institution at risk of not learning
the lessons of the grenfell tower fire, which is what this public inquiry is effectively all about. you have obviously asked the fire service for a response? the fire service for a response? the fire service says it is inappropriate to comment ahead of the official release of the report on wednesday. we also heard this morning from matt wrack, the man in charge of the fire brigades union, the rank—and—file officers. who have been praised in this report for their bravery. indeed. he condemns the early leaking of the report, said he could not comment in detail until tomorrow but says the inquiry should have started by looking at issues like the building and cladding instead of, as he put it, scapegoating firefighters. london fire brigade clearly need to learn the lessons and apply the lessons of this fire in previous fires. but this comes back to my previous point, we've alerted government ministers of the need to act quickly on altering or
reviewing the issue of stay put, for example. government ministers have failed to react on that. let's scrutinise the london fire brigade and its management, but why is nobody holding to account the fire minister or the home secretary or, for that matter, the prime minister, who was previously in charge of the london fibre gate himself? leaving aside the fire service response, what else does this 1000 page report say? 1000 pages is the kind of thing that families, survivors, people interested in this will be poring overfour months, looking interested in this will be poring over four months, looking at the details. a few more key points, it also looks, crucially, because of the fire itself. some of this will be looked at in more detail in phase two in january, be looked at in more detail in phase two injanuary, there are already some conclusions. so martin says the evidence showed it started in flat 16 in the fourth floor of the tower,
important to point out that this report completely clears the owner of that flat of any possible wrongdoing, it says the fire was accidental, that man bears no blame for what occurred, much less the catastrophic events that followed. but it does say that the fire started in his will pull for each freezer as the result of an electrical fault. that is freezer as the result of an electricalfault. that is important, there was disagreement about that in there was disagreement about that in the inquiry, the us company whirlpool which made the fridge suggested that perhaps a cigarette could have been thrown out of an u psta i rs could have been thrown out of an upstairs window and landed in the kitchen itself, there was not the evidence to show it was the fridge freezer that started the fire, this report says it was the fridge freezer and it describes the theory by whirlpool as fanciful. there is more information about how the fire spread and how it spread so rapidly? again, absolutely key. we expect more in phase two of the inquiry,
they conclude that it started because a pvc window frame mounted outside flat 16, somehow the flames, the fire, got into that gap between the fire, got into that gap between the edge of the building and there's cladding system fitted in 2016. that is what caused the flames to spread upwards. they say the cladding was the principal reason the flames spread up the building and, crucially, the report concludes that the external cladding system was therefore not compliant with building regulations. say that again, that is crucial. we did not necessarily expect this conclusion, we expected he might make this decision much later in the process, and the inquiry report they have said this does not meet building regulations. that is important. if they said it met building regulations but the regulations were not third for purpose, that is one
thing, the regulations may not have been very good, we will find out in phase two, but already he is saying evenif phase two, but already he is saying even if that was the case, this did not meet building regulations. that is really important going forward to look up the fault of perhaps the companies involved, the companies who fitted stuff on the building, it could be crucial in phase two of the inquiry. that is something survivors and relatives absolutely needed to hear, they have told me, and they have got it in phase one and there will be more in phase two. recommendations from this report, watch recommendations is it making? 46 in total. it is a very lengthy piece of work, 1000 pages long. we will talk more about the recommendations as usual, including better equipment for firefighters, better equipment for firefighters, better information being shared, there is criticism of the stay put
policy saying the government and fire services need to draw a better plans to evacuate high—rise building in these circumstances. the inquiry has criticised the daily telegraph and other media outlets for reporting these findings before they we re reporting these findings before they were officially released. a spokeswoman said it had deprived those most affected by the fire, the bereaved, survivors and residents, of the opportunity to read the report at their own pace. we had every intention of not reporting this until tomorrow, we felt because the rest of the media and newspapers reported edge, it left us with little choice but to cover it today, but we will have much more on this subject tomorrow in what will look like a special programme on this channel. we are devoting the whole programme tomorrow to the grenfell tower disaster report. jim has given a pretty comprehensive account of what is in these 1000 pages, but be assured we will spend the rest of the day poring over the details, the
releva nt the day poring over the details, the relevant recommendations, the quotes, and on the programme tomorrow we will be joined by relatives of those who died and survivors, people who escaped, and what is quite extraordinary is that some of the things that the retired judge has pointed out in this report actually we brought to you on the very morning, survivors were telling us it started in the fourth floor, it started in a fridge, which is quite extraordinary to see that confirmed officially two years later. let me read some messages from people listening to watching has reported. wayne says it is totally unfair to blame the london fire brigade for the deaths at g re nfell tower. fire brigade for the deaths at grenfell tower. telling residents to remain in theirflats grenfell tower. telling residents to remain in their flats with standard policy at the time at the fibre gateway just following tried policy at the time at the fibre gatewayjust following tried and tested procedures. worth saying again, asjim pointed out, individual firefighters have been praised in this report, it talks about their bravery and outstanding
commitment. it does say that the stay put policy should have been abandoned far earlier than it was. another viewer says you should ask the full spite this inquiry how it is the fault of the firefighters that the local tory council allowed a known fire risk to be used as cladding —— you should ask the fools behind this inquiry. you cannot blame somebody for a crime when the crime happened before they got there. alan says trying to break the fibre gauges disgraceful, these brave firefighters did their best and follow guidelines in place at the time. is the reporter trying to protect the building owners and builders? i would suggest absolutely not, allen, as you would have realised that hearing the edge of jim's report. tony says the report should have concentrated on why the building failed, it was not because the fibre gate attended. if it was built correctly it would have been correct. eugene said i'm so sorry the fibre gauges taking the can, brave and dedicated people, yet the
building regulations have still not been changed. there are many more of those. thank you for them. i hope you understand the reasons that we have reported this this morning, let me know and what you think of the report so far. we will be devoting a whole programme tomorrow on this report, what the retired judge has said, who he feels it's responsible and what the recommendations are, i hope you willjoin to that. we will no doubt be the only programme devoting the whole of their airtime to it. this morning we expose the shocking conditions that some families in the capital city of the fifth largest economy in the world — london — are living in. families in the last remaining block of flats on a huge regeneration scheme in barnet are coping with cockroaches, damp, mould and flooding, while drug addicts inject
heroin on the stairs. residents tell us exclusively they feel they're being "left to rot". recently the new housing minister esther mcvey visited the development and praised it as "delivering the regeneration and homes residents deserve". sean clare has this exclusive report. we can't carry on living here. we're not living how people should be living. the whole building's not secure — anybody can walk in. you know, people using drugs, injecting, in the area. they don't care. they don't have to live like that. it's put up and shut up, and be grateful for it — regardless of how you live.
i mean, when did you first see the cockroaches? erm...a year, a year and a half ago — coming up nearly two years now. they were massive. they was coming up, they was all on my sides, all of my counters, in my microwave. they was in there, they was in the bathroom — they was absolutely everywhere. i said, we can't carry on living here. we're not living how people should be living. my doctor is now worried that i've got 0cd because i can clean up to five five hours a day. i physically couldn't eat here. i just... because of the cockroaches? yeah. it made me feel sick, it made me feel dirty. i've seen them in my cupboard.
i'm not prepared to use a cup in my cupboard because they've been on it. my son's been bitten in the eye, i've had infections from them in my eye. my daughter's been bitten by them. when my daughter finds the cockroaches, she tries to keep it quiet because she knows, she warns me that there's a cockroach. and she says, mummy, don't cry, don't cry. you don't have any rights, really. barnet homes can move you to another regeneration. you don't have a choice.
we have no rights. it's put up and shut up, and be grateful for it — regardless of how you live. the whole building's not secure — anybody can walk in. look. none of these... nothing's all connected any more. they've completely shut it off. so we have everyone and anyone walk in. we have a whatsapp group with the majority of the residents and tenants on marsh drive. we've just got a whatsapp saying that one of the people's next door neighbours was burgled today between 7:00am and 11:00am. just before she was burgled, they saw many of the heroin addicts on the stairway. there was watching the building
as they was leaving. we have been complaining of, obviously, what's been going on, that we have been having loads of drug users in the stairway, walking through our corridors. are you 0k? that water drips down, and then floods. this is where the level, over here, is where the level of water comes up to. i have water come through, basically, and it sits behind this wall. i've had black mould, which i have pictures for.
and i've had black mould since 2015 all the way up to 2018. i had barnet council come out to test the wall and they said to me that it's perfectly safe for my children to breathe in. barnet homes have tried to make it out that it's my fault i have the mould. i'm not doing the correct things to circulate air through the property. but this is not about air, this is not condensation. because this is the only wall that i have the mould coming in through. and that's the outside wall. i paid for the anti—mould paint and the anti—mould wallpaper. i paid over £200 for it, didn't get reimbursed by barnet homes or barnet council. they don't care. they don't have to live like that. they're knocking this down. they don't want to put money into it. we are social cleansings at its best. like we should feel deserved to have this place and we should be happy that we live in these conditions and that our children live like this. but they genuinely do not care.
i'd had enough, really. i felt like i wasn't being listened to by barnet council. i felt like they was telling me one thing and other people another. so i started knocking on every single person's door, took their numbers, put them in a whatsapp group and now everyone chats. everybody has come together like a community now. who are you driving out to give this nice, spanking—new, shiny regeneration to? who are you doing it to? people with money. you're not looking at the people who have lived here ten, 15, 11, 12 — how many years. they just think that they can leave it to just rot to the ground and with us people in it. so now, as we're coming together as an association, now as we are coming together as a group, we're now
being listened to. everyone has either the same problems — so many have the same sort of problems — and now they're sitting up and listening. because in our last meeting, over 50 people turned up and they was not expecting it. now they have to sit up and listen. sean clare with that report. we wanted to speak to someone from conservative—controlled barnet council or from barnet homes. we tried the leader of the council, daniel thomas — it was a no. we tried cllr sarah wardle who's vice—chair of the regeneration committee —
she didn't call me back. when i tried again her phone was switched off. in fact we tried every conservative councillor on the regeneration committee and every conservative councillor on the housing committee. we tried all the conservative councillors for the local area. not one person was available or willing to come on. we even tried the man who was chair of the housing committee until recently, gabriel rozenberg — he said no; i left two messages for the local conservative mp matthew 0fford. there he is with esther mcvey the housing minister. he didn't come back to me; obviously we tried ms mcvey who wasn't available. we can speak to brian coleman who was a leading member of barnet council for ten years from 2002 — while lots of the planning and work on this regeneration project happened. we're also going to speak to annie —
who you saw in our film. she's asked us not to use her surname. and ken loach, who in 1966 directed a landmark film that highlighted the devastating impact of homelessness on a young mother and her children. welcome, all of you. mr coleman, thank you for stepping up, because no one currently on the council board. always a mistake. could you live in a flat like that? absolutely not. and that's why we are developing the estate and a vast amount of regeneration has already taken place and it's a huge success story. so you couldn't live in a flat with damp or cockroaches or drug addicts injecting outside your front door? no. why should annie? these issues should be dealt with. barnett homes are not going to spend money on flats to pull down into your time. you can see the logic of that. you are unsecured tenants. you
knew you were secure tenants when you moved in. that was always going to be short—term. you moved in. that was always going to be short-term. does that mean they don't count? why are you making that point? the council owes them nothing at all. not even basic hygienic living conditions? you were moved in for a year or two, you've been there four and a half years, some tenants have been there ten yea rs, some tenants have been there ten years, 16 years. you've lived there for a long time, but you were an unsecured tenant and you u nfortu nately unsecured tenant and you unfortunately come out of all the existing tenants have been rehoused at the insecure once i got to make their own arrangements. the drug dealing should be dealt with, by the police, and the pest control, all that should be dealt with. the landlord should do that. what do you say to brian coleman?” landlord should do that. what do you say to brian coleman? i don't know what to say. we shouldn't have to live like that. why should we have to live like that with our children?
why can't they lock the doors? the door systems have not worked for 25 yea rs. door systems have not worked for 25 years. it's outrageous. you say that quite proudly. you were there for 16 of those years. barnet has tried to work day after day to redevelop the estate and its take on an ordinance amount of time, several planning applications, developers have come and gone, it crashed in 2008 in the recession, and we had to go back to the drawing board, but barnet is finally delivering, notjust on west hendon but other vast estates, where we are now building the new housing. in west hendon, there is some lovely new housing. mixed tenancies. but we won't go there. social and private owners. it's a mixed estate. are you likely to get one of those new flats ? likely to get one of those new flats? no, i've not been promised anything. i've been there nearly five years. that's fine. let me
bring in ken loach. what do you think of this? i think it shows contempt for people. i could meet. —— weep. to live with cockroaches, damp, kids getting asthma. to be told you don't deserve anything, the council owes you nothing, it's disgusting. i'm sorry. you outsource to the maintenance to a private company which you 100% own, what are they doing? they are meant to be maintaining this. how are they earning their profits, these private companies, if they can't even secure the flats as they are? what links this to grenfall tower is the contempt for people seem to have no power. absolute contempt. it doesn't ca re power. absolute contempt. it doesn't care if they are in fire hazard, squalid conditions, that's tory
britain. you've got a political agenda and that's fair enough. are you still a member of the conservative party? yes, funnily enough, iam. conservative party? yes, funnily enough, i am. i'm conservative party? yes, funnily enough, iam. i'm proud to be conservative party? yes, funnily enough, i am. i'm proud to be so. the conservatives have been delivering on barnet, new housing for all our existing residents. they've delivered it in west hendon. there is an 18 story tower block overlooking the river, which has private and social housing tenants. you should not allow people to live in these conditions. which is why we are allowing it, to move into the new block. why don't you maintain it? we are. you are not. it's going to be demolished in two year's time. these are people. it's a matter of budgets. you can't kill cockroaches? you can't get rid of the damp? i'm
afraid you treat people with contempt. that's just afraid you treat people with contempt. that'sjust not afraid you treat people with contempt. that's just not true. afraid you treat people with contempt. that'sjust not true. we have spent hundreds of millions on housing. we've seen the evidence. the evidence is there. that is the last block on a dreadful estate. there are people who have been living there for years, living there now, with cockroaches. could you live with cockroaches and your kids, your kids getting asthma? no com you couldn't. you are a disgrace. you are not in barnet council any more, although the reason you are here is because you had leading role, over 16 years, when looked at this regeneration is going on. would you come on behalf of barnet council can wa nt to come on behalf of barnet council can want to apologise for those living in these flats? i don't speak for barnet council any more. of course drug dealing in cockroaches and all thatis drug dealing in cockroaches and all that is not acceptable. it should be dealt with. we are working flat out.
i'm afraid you make people angry and justifiably so. barnet homes have apologised to you and other residents, they say we are extremely sorry that a number of residents in marsh drive are currently living in homes which quite simply fall below the standards we expect. we fully appreciate how difficult this must be for the residents, particularly for those with young families, do you accept that apology?” for those with young families, do you accept that apology? i find it ha rd you accept that apology? i find it hard to. i really do. every time i've written to barnet council and i've written to barnet council and i've expressed how they are making me feel, i've had a medical letter is given, my children have been bitten, it's always been ignored and when i did a request a few months ago, when! when i did a request a few months ago, when i got everything back, all of my information was missing. and the last thing they told me to do was to take them to court. they had a meeting with residents last night, barnet homes, and what was said
there? they said that they will tackle the pest control, send people out to put down bait, and... sorry. do you think that meeting happen because they knew we were doing our report today? maybe, yeah. we sent them an e—mail and we did invite the ceo of barnet group to come, he couldn't make it yesterday, but he has met with us back in september. we invited the senior members of london borough of barnet to come because we want secure london borough of barnet to come because we want secure tenancies london borough of barnet to come because we want secure tenancies we wa nt because we want secure tenancies we want our doors locked, and... you wa nt to want our doors locked, and... you want to secure tenancies. i'm afraid secure want to secure tenancies. i'm afraid secure tenancies is not on offer. mr coleman, why are you so unsympathetic? it doesn't make sense. what doesn't make sense? you sound so casual and dismissive. a
lack of compassion. no landlord, public and private... and you are shouting at everybody in thisjudeo. sorry, i'm not here to defend barnet council. they thought was a stitch up, which is why didn't come. there is no stitch up. we went into a block of flats, we filmed what was there, the residents spoke to us openly, we are reflecting accurately what it's like for annie to live in that building. yes, and it's not good enough. in what way is that a stitch up? ask the leader of the council, he said it was a stitch up. i'm sorry. you are unsecured te na nts, i'm sorry. you are unsecured tenants, you knew the deal when you moved in. i had no choice. we were grateful to take the place. we didn't know it was full of cockroaches. we went to where the electrics were underwater. we did not know that. this is in the context of massive housing crisis so
people like annie have got no choice, they got to live somewhere so choice, they got to live somewhere so to put them in disgusting accommodation is atrocious. last christmas, there were 130,000 children, homeless, in b&bs, hostels, and then there's a whole hidden homeless, people sofa surfing, crammed in with relatives, living in sheds on the backs of gardens, and there's a whole new housing policy based on council housing, not outsourced to people like this. real secure tenancies where everyone has a decent home, no one should live in these conditions and that is the only way, so a major political change of the top. councils have been starved of funding. there is a chronic housing shortage. is it reasonable to accept local councils to provide lifelong secure local councils to provide lifelong secure council homes in this day and age? it starts at the top, the starving of council of funds, this
goes back and includes the tony blair government as well, why won't council houses built? that's why the labour party has changed 180 degrees. britain is an uncaring disgusting place to live, paul says, if you're not rich. you don't count. we reward failure and the most vulnerable. the government and councils need to help people get that start. after i was homeless i picked myself up and i worked for £5 an hour, and then i got a job on £21,000 a year. that was 20 years ago. i could pick myself up because i had social rent. now the mess is plain to see. brian on e—mail says my autistic daughter has suffered yea rs of my autistic daughter has suffered years of large fat slugs crawling all over her flat. the years of large fat slugs crawling all over herflat. the barnet solution? pour salt on them. a man on twitter says the homeless hostel in harrow there rats and mice running about. there are drug users in the rooms next to mothers and
babies. you mentioned grenfall tower and drewa babies. you mentioned grenfall tower and drew a parallel with it. a brief reaction from you and also for you asa reaction from you and also for you as a former chair of the london fire brigade between 2008—12, when boris johnson was mayor, from what we know of the report so far? i can'tjudge at the top brass policy was, but i do know those fire men and women who went in could not have been more heroic. they plunged into a situation which could have brought them death, so we have to praise them. no praise is too high for them. no praise is too high for them. and of course, the real cause is the cladding and the disregard for people. this is what is so bad. it makes you so angry. the disregard of people. whether it's for people in grantham, they don't count in some peoples minds, and that should make us really angry. as a former
chair of the london fire brigade for four years, which cover the period of the fire in 2009, in which people died, what do you want to say about what you've heard of the report so far? well, i'm very concerned that danny far? well, i'm very concerned that da n ny coto n far? well, i'm very concerned that danny coton is being unfairly targeted. she's a very strong personality, the first woman to up a majorfire brigade in the uk. i was involved in her appointment. and i think criticism of her is somewhat unfair. to suggest that somehow a junior officer was left in charge, are they saying senior officers should arrive must impressjunior officers out? i don't think i'm worried about criticism of her as an individual, it's unfair. do you think she could be made a scapegoat? i don't want to put words into your mouth. well, i think ken loach is right, we need to see the second pa rt right, we need to see the second part of the enquiry, which is two or
three years down the line. on the causes of the fire. the fire brigade ran the policy that was there at the time which you should have in our in a high—rise building, fire prevention should protect you for one hour and it didn't. thank you very much i am gratefulfor your coming on. thank you, brian coleman. annie, thank you very much for inviting us into your home. ken loach, thank you for your time, as well. i'm going to bring you some breaking news. bear with me. the ipad is catching up. here it is. ok, this is from one of my colleagues. the labour leadership so they are going to back an early election in december. i'm afraid i don't have a date. as you know, there is argument by politicians over what date to go foran by politicians over what date to go for an early election but that's from our political correspondent ian watson who says he's been told the labour leadership will back an early
general election in december. we are about to talk about that with three politicians in a second. also still to come on the programme. he cranked the volume up. and that's the last thing i remember. mum? i was telling her about the song. but, for some reason, she wasn't responding. mum! she was dribbling and shaking. what's wrong? mum? we speak to eight—year—old ben hedger and his mum after he won a pride of britain award for how he reacted to that terrifying situation. we still don't know if there's going to be a general election before christmas, but number ten sources have said they would accept a general election on december the 11th, a day before their preferred date of the 12th. borisjohnson will try to change the law today to make that election happen — and he needs 50% of mps, plus one, to support him.
he's so keen to to get this election, he's promised he will abandon his attempt to get his brexit deal through parliament ahead of it. the lib dems and the snp, you might remember, were also trying to get an election but on a different day — monday december 9th. let's talk now to three mps who can give us some kind of clue of what the thinking is at westminster, and shed some light on whether this election is really about to be upon us. for the lib dems, layla moran. conservative, harriet baldwin. and labour's rupa huq. welcome, all of you. i'm going to ask you all to talk to our audience without spin, to talk honestly and sincerely without trying to score political points, so we can genuinely try to work out what's going on. nope little point scoring for the next few minutes so we can work out what's going on on behalf of our audience. what is the difference between thursday december the 12th, wednesday the seventh 11th, or monday december the 9th. i will
start with you. the reason why we suggested an election and it said... we came to this very reluctantly, we've been backing a people spoke to... we've been backing a people spoke to. . . what's we've been backing a people spoke to... what's the difference between those dates? we don't trust boris johnson won't run through his deal ina tiny johnson won't run through his deal in a tiny window which would be left between the ninth and the 12th. the difference for the ninth on the 12 isa difference for the ninth on the 12 is a difference of a few days and before he had said he wanted to get this done after his dealer got through. i should say this morning, after he'd said he wouldn't bring his bill back, we still had ministers on radio programme saying that that's what they wanted to do. it's a complete lack of trust that makes us not want the 12th. what is the difference from your point of view, harriet, for the conservatives? i think it's to do with the 25 days legally set out in the fixed—term parliaments act and also the convention between dissolving parliament on thursday.
but i think we are now down to just semantics and minutes of daylight between the different dates. well, i mean, ithink between the different dates. well, i mean, i think that there is not public appetite for an election. you've given us a newsflash i wasn't aware of but i knowjeremy said in a house yesterday... i knock on doors every week and there's not a clamour from the general public for an election, but i do think that span in the works here as brexit, because let's not forget that boris johnson put his queen's speech to the other day and also the second reading of his withdrawal agreement also got through, so i think we should concentrate on those things and then offer people a peoples vote on brexit. that's the thing which is mucking everything up. if you take that out of the equation, disentangle it from the election, then we can proceed to an election. your labour bosses will back a labour election dollar in early election. —— your labour bosses will
back an early election. let's say you compromised and let say it's wednesday, would you vote for that? wednesday, would you vote for that? we need to see the detail of this. in principle, we have asked for the ninth because i need to check. i'm still relatively new to parliament andl still relatively new to parliament and i need to know there is no way that this deal it can come back. there are people who support boris johnson's withdrawal agreement who voted for it in principle last tuesday night. they really don't understand what the game is. why is he not continuing to get that withdrawal agreement through? what do you say, harriet, without the spin? what's going on? the problem was although people voted with the majority of 30 for a second reading, the principle of the agreement, including 100% of the mps from my party, i think the problem was that subsequent to that it wasn't possible to get the timetable through. so everyone else voted against the timetable. why didn't he
just extend the timetable and give people more time? what is he worried about? subsequent to that, my understanding is they were off is made for extending timetable which has been rejected, and so my hunch is, i would has been rejected, and so my hunch is, iwould have been has been rejected, and so my hunch is, i would have been perfectly happy to sit last friday at such a comment to get things through, i think what happened was that it was felt that even if that had been offered again it would have been voted out and then i think, importantly, even once the withdrawal agreement is through comments we've got to agree on the future partnership as well and without a majority, i think we will be stuck in this morass forever, so that's why i think it is time to ask the public who they want to negotiate in the future. and i think obviously the answer to that is a person who successfully negotiated the withdrawal agreement. person who successfully negotiated the withdrawal agreementm person who successfully negotiated the withdrawal agreement. it sounds like your labour leadership are now agreed that they will go for an election in december. again will see
the detail of it but an election didn't solve anything last time. it's mixed up. we've got the parliament we voted for. exactly, polls are showing it would be a hung parliament again. i just polls are showing it would be a hung parliament again. ijust think you need to extrapolate brexit out of it. i think we can work through this withdrawal agreement and that way, we could even get improvements to it. you voted against the timetable and now you're saying i don't want it. three days are something that significant. you don't want it anyway. you won't vote for it.|j think this is the issue because 19 labour mps think this is the issue because 19 labourmps did think this is the issue because 19 labour mps did vote at the second reading, actually, i'm worried that this deal is going to get through off the back of labour votes without the people at some point having a say on it. whilst the referendum would have been purer, the general election would be another way for at least people to have a say.|j election would be another way for at least people to have a say. i got to there because we come to the end of there because we come to the end of the programme and we wanted introduce our audience to the most
amazing young man. thank you so much and thank you for being a straight as you can be. now, ben hedger was just eight years old when his mum had a seizure at the wheel of their car while driving on a dual carriageway at 65 miles per hour. he grabbed the wheel and saved both of their lives. last night he was awarded the pride of britain child of courage award. i've been speaking to ben and his mum lauren smith, and we'll hearfrom them in a moment, but first let's look at the moment ben was given the award by dua lipa. cheering and applause. ben, it's so nice to meet you. your bravery and courage is so incredible for someone your age. i've got i've got a 13—year—old brother and i couldn't imagine him being in a similar situation. i really couldn't. you really are such a hero. ben is here and his mum lauren. congratulations on winning that award. how was your night last night? amazing.
and how was it for you? amazing. surreal. it was just so lovely being around so many other incredible people. that was my favourite bit. meeting all the other winners and getting to talk to them, listen to their stories. it was just so emotional. very. yeah. you really, i mean, tears do come to your eyes. absolutely. and i want to ask you, ben, what you remember about the day when your mum effectively passed out the wheel of a car. all i remember is she just wasn't answering to my question. and then she just had a seizure. what did you think was going on? well, first i thought she was joking, until she actually let go of the steering wheel. and i knew she wasn't. were you scared? yeah. very scared. we're going to play a reconstruction, which was put together by daily mirror pride of britain awards because this shows what happened. mum? i was telling her about a song
but for some reason she wasn't responding. mum! she was dribbling and shaking. what's wrong? mum? what's wrong? the car was getting faster each second. and then started moving around because she let go of the steering wheel. something's wrong. guy smith was driving his van behind them. the car was a bit like a pinball, to be fair, just swerving from left to right across both lanes. i initially thought the person in front was drunk. what i was worrying about was, is she dying? at speed the car swerved towards the central reservation. when we hit the barrier, i realised that i had to control the car. i had think about how to actually
steer it when there's high speed and all the cars are in all different lanes. i was absolutely horrified to see a terrified—looking young lad steering the car. it was definitely going fast enough to flip itself over. could have been a multi—car pile—up. i was thinking i had to steer the car to the grass. miraculously, ben was able to steer through the speeding traffic, but the moment the car mounted the verge was captured by a passing dash cam. i thenjumped out and quickly run round the driver's side of the car. as soon as i opened the door, the little boy screamed, "please save my mummy!" with an ambulance on the way, lauren eventually came round. she'd suffered a seizure. mum? wow! i mean, that isjust remarkable.
yes. you were eight. yeah. you were eight years old and you had the presence of mind to steer that wheel eventually into the grass verge. yeah. how did you know what to do? i didn't really just know, i thought of it. ijust did it. i do genuinely believe that if he didn't do what he did, our story would have been completely different. we could have been seriously injured or have died. other people could have got involved and been hurt. so, i'm very proud. where do you think your boy got that determination from? i'd like to think me. what would his dad say about that? yeah, to be honest, he'd probably agree. we're quite determined. we're quite emotional and passionate, quite emotional, passionately family. but he is very observant as well. so he's always watching me when we're in the car and asking me what every control does,
which is how he knew to turn the hazard lights on. so, yeah. did you? you put the hazard lights on in the middle of all that? yeah. that is incredible. i mean, there will be loads of eight—year—olds watching you now who are on half term like you, you're on half term, thinking you were a bit of a hero, actually. well, congratulations, ben, and thank you so much for coming on our programme. the reason that we're recording this interview is because actually when we're on air, you're potentially going to be meeting the prime minister and other politicians. you're off to ten downing street, aren't you? yes. it's so exciting. is that going to be as exciting as meeting simon cowell? possibly not. i don't know. such a diplomat as well. i love it. anyway, thank you so much. thank you so much for having us. daily mirror pride of britain awards, in partnership with tsb, will be broadcast on itv on 5th november at 8pm. thank you for this e—mail from todd,
who says thank you to your programme for exposing the underbelly of our country at the moment. please keep up country at the moment. please keep up the investigative journalist which exposes the inadequacies and incompetence of our current crop of political leaders. good morning. a lovely start to the day across many parts of the uk. we had a thrust of this morning but as you can see here in the highlands, a gorgeous view, just a bit of snow on tops of the mountains. it's cold enough, certainly, quite chilly over the last couple of days, but an exception to the sunny situation. cloud and rain affecting the far south—west of england, few showers in the south—east and a few showers moving towards eastern areas of england and the north—east of scotland. for most of us, though, dry and bright, pretty chilly, temperatures 9—13. tonight, continuing the cloud. still some rain across the far south—west of england and that will keep temperatures above freezing. further
north, though, quite chilly. 0nce again, there will be a thrust across northern parts, so for wednesday, fairly similarto northern parts, so for wednesday, fairly similar to today with rain down towards the south—west but for most, a dry and bright and sunny day. hello from westminster. i'm annita mcveigh. it's 11 o'clock. jeremy corbyn says labour will back an early general election. he's told his shadow cabinet that the party's condition of taking a no—deal brexit "off the table" has been met. borisjohnson will try to win support from mps for a december general election despite his plan being rejected yesterday. we'll bring you all the latest from westminster, as mps wrangle over that potential general election date. i'm joanna gosling. in other news today... a damning report into the grenfell tower disaster. london fire brigade's response is described as wholly inadequate.
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