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tv   BBC News  BBC News  August 15, 2021 12:00pm-1:01pm BST

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that fighters emerged, for example, that fighters against the taliban have been tortured and killed. we are seeing public execution in certain places. is that going to continue across afghanistan over the next coming days and weeks? lilo. afghanistan over the next coming days and weeks?— days and weeks? no, there is no retaliation- _ days and weeks? no, there is no retaliation. we _ days and weeks? no, there is no retaliation. we have _ days and weeks? no, there is no retaliation. we have issued - retaliation. we have issued statements after statement, which... i suppose, i statements after statement, which... isuppose, i have statements after statement, which... i suppose, i have spent time with you in afghanistan and you have spoken about all of these things and the statements on the policies, but it is what is happening on the ground to the people. they are telling us that your fighters are terrorising them. for example, a government worker was targeted and killed last week, a media government worker and the taliban claimed responsibility. is there going to be continue to targeted killings of people who do not agree with the taliban or have spoken out against the?
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maybe the report you are receiving, maybe the reports are exaggerated. just wanting to mislead the world against us. every individual case should be fully investigated, then we know the veracity of that case. but what i am telling you is the policy. that policy we are following. all our members should following. all our members should follow that. if anyone is not with the policy, he will be punished according to the law.- the policy, he will be punished according to the law. going forward, should the people _ according to the law. going forward, should the people of _ according to the law. going forward, should the people of afghanistan . should the people of afghanistan expect to live under a taliban style shari law? {iii expect to live under a taliban style shari law? . ., , expect to live under a taliban style shari law? _, , . ., shari law? of course. we want islamic government. _
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shari law? of course. we want islamic government. an - shari law? of course. we want i islamic government. an inclusive islamic government. an inclusive islamic government. an inclusive islamic government. that is the demand of the people of afghanistan. but everyone has the right in three court to defend themselves or herself... court to defend themselves or herself- - -_ herself... will it be a taliban s le herself... will it be a taliban style court? _ herself. .. will it be a taliban style court? will— herself... will it be a taliban style court? will there - herself... will it be a taliban style court? will there be . herself... will it be a taliban - style court? will there bejudges? can women bejudges, for example? there will be courtjudges, women can have access to work. the position, that is for the future government. 50 position, that is for the future government-— position, that is for the future government. position, that is for the future covernment. ., government. so the government will decide where — government. so the government will decide where people _ government. so the government will decide where people can _ government. so the government will decide where people can work- government. so the government will decide where people can work and i decide where people can work and where they can go... that will all be up to the government? where they can go. .. that will all be up to the government?- where they can go... that will all be up to the government? that's for future government. _ be up to the government? that's for future government. there _ be up to the government? that's for future government. there will- be up to the government? that's for
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future government. there will be . future government. there will be uniforms for schools, and also we have to work, to sort out the education sector, the economic sector, government, a lot of work that will be there but the policy is that will be there but the policy is that the general framework is that women can have access to work and education. ~ ., women can have access to work and education. ~ . ., ., , education. what about the religious olice? education. what about the religious police? last — education. what about the religious police? last time _ education. what about the religious police? last time you _ education. what about the religious police? last time you talked - education. what about the religious police? last time you talked about | police? last time you talked about imposing a religious police in afghanistan that would monitor people's behaviour.— afghanistan that would monitor people's behaviour. yeah, religious olice the people's behaviour. yeah, religious police they themselves _ people's behaviour. yeah, religious police they themselves can - people's behaviour. yeah, religious police they themselves can commit| police they themselves can commit misbehaviour over the people... they will be a help to the people, to call people through a mechanism, and
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there will be reporting for that... if there is any shortcomings, that would be corrected and removed. imill would be corrected and removed. will ou would be corrected and removed. will you provide safe passage for people who want to leave the country now? our policy is no one should leave the country, because it is the country of all, we need all the talent and the capacity in the country. because when we close the chapter of war and enter another chapter of war and enter another chapter of war and enter another chapter of reconstruction, peace and tolerance and national unity, we need everyone to stay in the country and participate in the construction of the country. imill and participate in the construction of the country-— of the country. will women be allowed to _ of the country. will women be allowed to leave _ of the country. will women be allowed to leave their - of the country. will women be allowed to leave their homesl of the country. will women be - allowed to leave their homes alone? sure, as per the laws, the islamic
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laws, they can. in the past, women were walking... laws, they can. in the past, women were walking. . ._ were walking... they were not allowed to _ were walking... they were not allowed to leave _ were walking... they were not allowed to leave their - were walking... they were not allowed to leave their homes i allowed to leave their homes without... allowed to leave their homes without- - -— allowed to leave their homes without... ~ , allowed to leave their homes without... ~ . . ., , ., without... accompanying them... that was not the — without... accompanying them... that was not the case, _ without... accompanying them... that was not the case, they _ without... accompanying them... that was not the case, they were _ without... accompanying them... that was not the case, they were walking . was not the case, they were walking in the streets. i have seen that. the women we have spoken to have said that if they left their house without a man accompanying them, either their brother, father or husband, they would be beaten by taliban religious police. ihlo. husband, they would be beaten by taliban religious police.— taliban religious police. no, no, that was not— taliban religious police. no, no, that was not the _ taliban religious police. no, no, that was not the case, _ taliban religious police. no, no, that was not the case, and - taliban religious police. no, no, that was not the case, and it. taliban religious police. no, no, | that was not the case, and it will not be the case. in that was not the case, and it will not be the case.— that was not the case, and it will not be the case. in your view, do ou not be the case. in your view, do you want — not be the case. in your view, do you want to _ not be the case. in your view, do you want to reimpose _ not be the case. in your view, do you want to reimpose the - not be the case. in your view, do you want to reimpose the sort i not be the case. in your view, do you want to reimpose the sort ofi you want to reimpose the sort of government you had in the 90s?
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first, it will be an islamic government. we have fought for the case. that is clear. secondly, if there was any shortcomings, in the deliverance of the people, that would be seen, reviewed and any fault or shortcoming there, that would be reformed and corrected. so that there is no grievances from the afghan people. in that there is no grievances from the afghan people-— afghan people. in terms of the media, afghan people. in terms of the media. is _ afghan people. in terms of the media, is the _ afghan people. in terms of the media, is the threat _ afghan people. in terms of the media, is the threat allowed i afghan people. in terms of the i media, is the threat allowed to operate freely in the country? because we are also hearing reports that in certain places where the taliban now control, they are only allowing for sharia news to be broadcast. i allowing for sharia news to be broadcast-— broadcast. i think it is very important _ broadcast. i think it is very important that _ broadcast. i think it is very important that an - broadcast. i think it is very important that an islamic i important that an islamic government, it will be a free media,
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to criticise anyone, but they should avoid character assassination. it is avoid character assassination. it is a necessity in society to have freedom of speech. flan a necessity in society to have freedom of speech.— a necessity in society to have freedom of speech. can the radio programmes _ freedom of speech. can the radio programmes and _ freedom of speech. can the radio programmes and the _ freedom of speech. can the radio programmes and the television i programmes and the television programmes, for example, be critical of your regime?_ of your regime? yes, sure. if there is any fault. _ of your regime? yes, sure. if there is any fault. any — of your regime? yes, sure. if there is any fault, any shortcoming, - of your regime? yes, sure. if there is any fault, any shortcoming, they i is any fault, any shortcoming, they should be critical. if they are not critical, how can we correct ourselves? in islam, a believer to another, they show them what they are. ~ ., ., ,, another, they show them what they are. ~ ., ., ., another, they show them what they are. ., ., are. what do you say to the young uirls and are. what do you say to the young girls and women _ are. what do you say to the young girls and women across _ are. what do you say to the young i girls and women across afghanistan today who are very concerned about taliban returning to their cities,
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to their homes, which you have done, and imposing on them the sort of restrictions they faced in the 90s? what do you say to those girls and those women who are now incredibly scared? , , ., ., , scared? they should not be scared. they honour. _ scared? they should not be scared. they honour, their _ scared? they should not be scared. they honour, their properties, - scared? they should not be scared. i they honour, their properties, their right to education and work, we have commitment for that. so they should not have worries. they should have all their work and their access to education, it will be, i think, in a better position than they were in the past. in better position than they were in the ast. , ., , , . the past. in terms of public executions, _ the past. in terms of public executions, stonings, - the past. in terms of public - executions, stonings, amputation of hands and feet, i have spoken to the taliban commanders who have said thatis taliban commanders who have said that is the kind of law and order
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they would like to impose. is that your view?— they would like to impose. is that your view?_ i _ they would like to impose. is that your view?_ i have - they would like to impose. is that i your view?_ i have spoken your view? that is... i have spoken to taliban — your view? that is... i have spoken to taliban commanders _ your view? that is... i have spoken to taliban commanders in - your view? that is... i have spoken i to taliban commanders in afghanistan who have said to me, the way we see law and order is for the amputation of hands and feet, if there is theft, the stoning of women for adultery, and public executions if someone commits a crime. about islamic rules. _ someone commits a crime. about islamic rules, and _ someone commits a crime. about islamic rules, and since _ someone commits a crime. about islamic rules, and since it - someone commits a crime. about islamic rules, and since it is - someone commits a crime. about islamic rules, and since it is an i islamic rules, and since it is an islamic rules, and since it is an islamic government, that is up to the government and the islamic laws. so that is up to the religious leaders and the courts. they will decide about the punishment. iugliii decide about the punishment. will that include, in your view, amputation of hands and feet, and
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stonings, and public executions? i can't say right now, it is up to the courts and thejudges can't say right now, it is up to the courts and the judges and the laws. who will appoint the judges in the courts? fii who will appoint the 'udges in the courts? . ., , , courts? of course, the 'udges will be appointed * courts? of course, the judges will be appointed according _ courts? of course, the judges will be appointed according to - courts? of course, the judges will be appointed according to the - courts? of course, the judges will be appointed according to the lawi courts? of course, the judges will i be appointed according to the law of the future government. 50 be appointed according to the law of the future government.— the future government. so the government — the future government. so the government will _ the future government. so the government will be _ the future government. so the government will be putting - the future government. so the government will be putting in l the future government. so the - government will be putting in place the sort ofjudges in the courts that they want? fii the sort ofjudges in the courts that they want?— the sort ofjudges in the courts that they want? the sort ofjudges in the courts that the want? . ., , , ., that they want? of course. they have rules, the that they want? of course. they have rules. they have _ that they want? of course. they have rules, they have a _ that they want? of course. they have rules, they have a procedure - that they want? of course. they have rules, they have a procedure how - that they want? of course. they have rules, they have a procedure how to i rules, they have a procedure how to appointjudges. in every country, every government, and that will be in ourfuture every government, and that will be in our future government. flan every government, and that will be in our future government.- in our future government. can you hel us in our future government. can you help us understand, _ in our future government. can you help us understand, and _ in our future government. can you help us understand, and paint - in our future government. can you help us understand, and paint a i help us understand, and paint a picture of what the next few days will look like for the people in afghanistan and in kabul? can they go to their workplaces, the banks have shut down, people are trying to take money out of the banks... can
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you help us understand what the next few days will look like? i you help us understand what the next few days will look like?— few days will look like? i hope it will be a new — few days will look like? i hope it will be a new chapter, _ few days will look like? i hope it will be a new chapter, peacefull few days will look like? i hope it i will be a new chapter, peaceful and free, because in the past, every day there were people all over afghanistan who were killed because of fighting. and when there is a peaceful transfer of power taking place, i hope there will be a new chapter, a peace of people feeling safe and they can lead their life normally. so safe and they can lead their life normall . .., safe and they can lead their life normall . ., ., safe and they can lead their life normall. ., ., ., normally. so can women go back to the workplace _ normally. so can women go back to the workplace and _ normally. so can women go back to the workplace and school _ normally. so can women go back to. the workplace and school tomorrow? right now, we are seeing traffic jams in kabul, people trying to leave the country, people queueing up leave the country, people queueing up at banks trying to get access to their money. what will the next few days look like? can they work and go
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to school? , , .., . days look like? can they work and go to school? , , . ., to school? yes, they can. we call on --eole to to school? yes, they can. we call on people to stay _ to school? yes, they can. we call on people to stay in _ to school? yes, they can. we call on people to stay in their— to school? yes, they can. we call on people to stay in their homes i to school? yes, they can. we call on people to stay in their homes and i to school? yes, they can. we call on people to stay in their homes and in | people to stay in their homes and in the city. they should not go, and they should not have worries. there are rumours. they will have opportunity to work and they can continue their work. we have already issued a statement in this regard. when will the transfer of power take place? so when will the transfer of power take . lace? ,, ., when will the transfer of power take lace? ,, ., , ., when will the transfer of power take lace? , ., ., place? so we will see, we want to have talks — place? so we will see, we want to have talks about _ place? so we will see, we want to have talks about that, _ place? so we will see, we want to have talks about that, to - place? so we will see, we want to have talks about that, to achieve l have talks about that, to achieve that as soon as.— have talks about that, to achieve that as soon as. ashraf ghani and his team are _ that as soon as. ashraf ghani and his team are currently _ that as soon as. ashraf ghani and his team are currently in - that as soon as. ashraf ghani and his team are currently in the i
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his team are currently in the presidential palace in kabul? i don't know about that. you can ask them. �* , ., ., don't know about that. you can ask them. �* i. ., ., don't know about that. you can ask them. �* ., ., ~ ., them. and your team and mullah baradar are _ them. and your team and mullah baradar are currently _ them. and your team and mullah baradar are currently in - them. and your team and mullah baradar are currently in doha, i baradar are currently in doha, waiting for a delegation to arrive in kabul? ., ., ., ., in kabul? yeah, all here indo half. is there another _ in kabul? yeah, all here indo half. is there another high-level i is there another high—level negotiation team coming from kabul to doha? i negotiation team coming from kabul to doha? ., �* ~ ., ., ., negotiation team coming from kabul| to doha?_ -- to doha? i don't know about that. -- all here in — to doha? i don't know about that. -- all here in doha. _ to doha? i don't know about that. -- all here in doha. you _ to doha? i don't know about that. -- all here in doha. you don't _ to doha? i don't know about that. -- all here in doha. you don't know i to doha? i don't know about that. -- all here in doha. you don't know if i all here in doha. you don't know if there is a team coming to discuss with you? there is a team coming to discuss with ou? , . , there is a team coming to discuss with ou? , .,, ., ., there is a team coming to discuss with you?— can i with you? yes, as of tonight. can ou tell with you? yes, as of tonight. can you tell us _ with you? yes, as of tonight. can you tell us when _ with you? yes, as of tonight. can you tell us when mullah - with you? yes, as of tonight. can you tell us when mullah baradari with you? yes, as of tonight. can i you tell us when mullah baradar will enter kabul? so you tell us when mullah baradar will enter kabul?— enter kabul? so it depends on the
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developments. _ enter kabul? so it depends on the developments. mullah _ enter kabul? so it depends on the developments. mullah baradar- enter kabul? so it depends on the i developments. mullah baradar along with the delegation, they will go to kabul, we will see... with the delegation, they will go to kabul, we will see. . ._ kabul, we will see... what do you mean by. — kabul, we will see. .. what do you mean by. how— kabul, we will see... what do you mean by, how things _ kabul, we will see... what do you mean by, how things will - kabul, we will see... what do you i mean by, how things will proceed? why have you asked your fighters not to enter kabul? is it to avoid bloodshed?— to enter kabul? is it to avoid bloodshed? , ., ., ., ., bloodshed? yes, we want to avoid bloodshed? yes, we want to avoid bloodshed and _ bloodshed? yes, we want to avoid bloodshed and destruction - bloodshed? yes, we want to avoid bloodshed and destruction of- bloodshed? yes, we want to avoid bloodshed and destruction of the i bloodshed and destruction of the properties of the people, and not to give a chance to looters and plunderers, who are waiting for such moments to loot and plunder the properties of the people. to harm and violate the honour of the people. this is why we instruct our forces to stay at the gate. i5
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people. this is why we instruct our forces to stay at the gate.- forces to stay at the gate. is this something _ forces to stay at the gate. is this something you — forces to stay at the gate. is this something you agreed _ forces to stay at the gate. is this something you agreed with i forces to stay at the gate. is this something you agreed with and i something you agreed with and discussed with afghan leaders who are currently in kabul, before you arrived to the gates of kabul? did you inform various afghan leaders that that would be the plan? ila. you inform various afghan leaders that that would be the plan? no, we took this decision _ that that would be the plan? no, we took this decision for _ that that would be the plan? no, we took this decision for the _ that that would be the plan? no, we took this decision for the safety i that that would be the plan? no, we took this decision for the safety of i took this decision for the safety of our people, for the sake of our people. but we announced it. and people. but we announced it. and fliuhts people. but we announced it. and fliahts can people. but we announced it. and flights can resume from kabul? people can leave kabul? thea;r flights can resume from kabul? people can leave kabul? they should not leave. that _ people can leave kabul? they should not leave. that is _ people can leave kabul? they should not leave. that is why _ people can leave kabul? they should not leave. that is why we _ people can leave kabul? they should not leave. that is why we issued i people can leave kabul? they should not leave. that is why we issued the | not leave. that is why we issued the statement, that is why i am talking to you. the people of afghanistan, especially the people of the city kabul. �* especially the people of the city kabul �* , especially the people of the city kabul. �* , ., ., ., kabul. but if they want to leave, can they? _ kabul. but if they want to leave, can they? we — kabul. but if they want to leave, can they? we call _ kabul. but if they want to leave, can they? we call on _ kabul. but if they want to leave, can they? we call on them i kabul. but if they want to leave, can they? we call on them not l kabul. but if they want to leave, | can they? we call on them not to leave, can they? we call on them not to leave. but _ can they? we call on them not to leave. but we _ can they? we call on them not to leave, but we can't _ can they? we call on them not to leave, but we can't force - can they? we call on them not to leave, but we can't force them. i can they? we call on them not to i leave, but we can't force them. the cuestion leave, but we can't force them. the question of — leave, but we can't force them. the question of force is a big part of
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the feeling that people have towards the feeling that people have towards the taliban, that the taliban force people to behave and be in a certain way, and that they don't have their own rights. that the ideology is one where you prevent people from having their own personal freedoms. where you prevent people from having their own personalfreedoms. what can you tell people about that? most of those accusations _ can you tell people about that? ij�*iksi of those accusations and reports are coming from our opponents, to malign us, to say bad things to us in order to benefit... it us, to say bad things to us in order to benefit---_ to benefit... it is also coming from--- _ to benefit... it is also coming from- -- to — to benefit... it is also coming from... to benefit _ to benefit... it is also coming from... to benefit them. it i to benefit... it is also coming from... to benefit them. it isi to benefit... it is also coming i from... to benefit them. it is also cominu from... to benefit them. it is also coming from _ from... to benefit them. it is also coming from ordinary _ from... to benefit them. it is also coming from ordinary afghans, i from... to benefit them. it is also coming from ordinary afghans, in| coming from ordinary afghans, in several provinces right now they say they don't have personal freedom, they don't have personal freedom, they have a lot of fear, they can't
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walk around the streets on their own. it's completely in taliban control, which means they don't have personal freedoms. control, which means they don't have personalfreedoms. so control, which means they don't have personal freedoms.— personal freedoms. so of course the cities are in — personal freedoms. so of course the cities are in our— personal freedoms. so of course the cities are in our control, _ personal freedoms. so of course the cities are in our control, but - personal freedoms. so of course the cities are in our control, but they i cities are in our control, but they have the fear inside, so that is up to them. but if they come to the streets and go to the shops, they will be no restrictions on them. but if someone has a fear in his heart, it is up to him, that is why talking to you, assuring people, that is why we release statements, they should not have worries. find we release statements, they should not have worries.— not have worries. and there will not be revenge — not have worries. and there will not be revenge attacks _ not have worries. and there will not be revenge attacks on _ not have worries. and there will not be revenge attacks on people i not have worries. and there will not be revenge attacks on people who i be revenge attacks on people who have worked within the government and the police? we have seen a spate of targeted killings where government workers, policemen, translators, anyone who has been associated with this government or western allies have been targeted over the last year. 700 people have
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been killed in the past year in targeted killings, one last week for which the taliban claimed responsibility. is that likely to happen? and how are you going to control the fighters? yes. happen? and how are you going to control the fighters?— happen? and how are you going to control the fighters? yes, we should make sure there _ control the fighters? yes, we should make sure there is _ control the fighters? yes, we should make sure there is no _ control the fighters? yes, we should make sure there is no revenge. i control the fighters? yes, we should make sure there is no revenge. all. make sure there is no revenge. all of those allegations, many i have investigated and it was not the case, what was claimed at the beginning. so any case will be investigated, but when it is allegations and you investigate a case, you find out it was not true, what was claimed at the beginning. so when you started this peace negotiation, you talked about working with the current government in some kind of power—sharing deal. is power—sharing is now out of the window completely? irate
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is power-sharing is now out of the window completely?— is power-sharing is now out of the window completely? we want an afghan inclusive islamic _ window completely? we want an afghan inclusive islamic government. _ window completely? we want an afghan inclusive islamic government. it - inclusive islamic government. it means all afghans will be part of that government. they will have participation in that. so we will see, in future, as the peaceful transfer is taking place, that will be also sorted out. aha, transfer is taking place, that will be also sorted out.— be also sorted out. a lot of questions _ be also sorted out. a lot of questions being _ be also sorted out. a lot of questions being asked i be also sorted out. a lot of. questions being asked about be also sorted out. a lot of- questions being asked about why prisoners, taliban prisoners are being released in areas that you took back. can you help us understand why they were considered criminals, and people who tried to kill other people over the last two decades? inaudible. a very abnormal situation. they will be seen in the near future...
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about how to go about that. do you call on ashraf _ about how to go about that. do you call on ashraf ghani, _ about how to go about that. do you call on ashraf ghani, his _ about how to go about that. do you call on ashraf ghani, his team, i about how to go about that. do you call on ashraf ghani, his team, and | call on ashraf ghani, his team, and the other afghan leaders, mohammed noor, to come back to the country and work with you?— and work with you? yes. you are reared and work with you? yes. you are prepared to _ and work with you? yes. you are prepared to work _ and work with you? yes. you are prepared to work with _ and work with you? yes. you are prepared to work with anyone i and work with you? yes. you are i prepared to work with anyone who accepts your rule? yes. we want to work with anyone. because we want to open a new chapter of peace, peaceful coexistence, unity and work for the country and for the people of afghanistan. but for the country and for the people of afghanistan.— of afghanistan. but they had to acce -t of afghanistan. but they had to accept sharia _ of afghanistan. but they had to accept sharia law _ of afghanistan. but they had to accept sharia law and - of afghanistan. but they had to accept sharia law and the i of afghanistan. but they had to i accept sharia law and the taliban style of living under the islamic emirate? will it be called the islamic emirate?—
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emirate? will it be called the islamic emirate? that is not a taliban style. _ islamic emirate? that is not a taliban style, islam _ islamic emirate? that is not a taliban style, islam is - islamic emirate? that is not a taliban style, islam is one - islamic emirate? that is not a taliban style, islam is one fori islamic emirate? that is not a i taliban style, islam is one for all people of the muslim world. it is not only for taliban, sol people of the muslim world. it is not only for taliban, so i think it is also a misinterpretation that it is also a misinterpretation that it is also a misinterpretation that it is a taliban style. islam is the same all over. originating from the rules. forthe same all over. originating from the rules. for the government. flan i same all over. originating from the rules. for the government. can i ask ou, what rules. for the government. can i ask you. what will— rules. for the government. can i ask you, what will your _ rules. for the government. can i ask you, what will your relationship - rules. for the government. can i ask you, what will your relationship be i you, what will your relationship be with the united states? fiur with the united states? our relationship _ with the united states? our relationship was _ with the united states? our relationship was in - with the united states? oi" relationship was in the past, we were fighting against that. in future, it will be a new chapter of co—operation. and they can
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participate. the more they participate. the more they participate in the construction of afghanistan and help the people of afghanistan and help the people of afghanistan and help the people of afghanistan and the country of afghanistan, the more our relation will strengthen and improve. so that is the future. we want to build a relation with them.— relation with them. what is your messa . e relation with them. what is your message to _ relation with them. what is your message to the _ relation with them. what is your message to the people - relation with them. what is your message to the people who - relation with them. what is your| message to the people who don't relation with them. what is your - message to the people who don't want to live under taliban rule? we message to the people who don't want to live under taliban rule?— to live under taliban rule? we want them to stay- _ to live under taliban rule? we want them to stay. there _ to live under taliban rule? we want them to stay. there is _ to live under taliban rule? we want them to stay. there is the - to live under taliban rule? we want them to stay. there is the fear- to live under taliban rule? we want them to stay. there is the fear is i them to stay. there is the fear is based on, not on realities... i suppose they are referring to history, looking at your time in power between 1996 — 2001, girls not going to school, the oppression that many women faced. that is their
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reference point. so when people say, have the taliban changed, that is their reference point. and also the treatment of some people in provinces at the hands of the taliban, where they say atrocities were committed. 140. taliban, where they say atrocities were committed.— taliban, where they say atrocities were committed. no, no. atrocities committed. — were committed. no, no. atrocities committed. we _ were committed. no, no. atrocities committed, we refute. _ were committed. no, no. atrocities committed, we refute. what - were committed. no, no. atrocities committed, we refute. what i - were committed. no, no. atrocities committed, we refute. what i am i committed, we refute. what i am saying is the policy. i explain our policy to you, clearly. and this policy to you, clearly. and this policy will be implemented. we are caettin a policy will be implemented. we are getting a lot _ policy will be implemented. we are getting a lot of _ policy will be implemented. we are getting a lot of people _ policy will be implemented. we are getting a lot of people from - policy will be implemented. we are getting a lot of people from aroundi getting a lot of people from around the world and in afghanistan wanting to put questions to you. theyjust want to understand what they can expect over the coming days. there is uncertainty and theyjust expect over the coming days. there is uncertainty and they just want clarity. is uncertainty and they 'ust want clari . , , ., ., ., clarity. yes, if there is one or two questions. _ clarity. yes, if there is one or two questions, because _ clarity. yes, if there is one or two questions, because i— clarity. yes, if there is one or two questions, because i am - clarity. yes, if there is one or two questions, because i am going i clarity. yes, if there is one or two questions, because i am going to| clarity. yes, if there is one or two l questions, because i am going to a meeting... questions, because i am going to a meeting- - -— meeting... sure. give me two questions- — meeting... sure. give me two
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questions. if _ meeting... sure. give me two questions. if you _ meeting... sure. give me two questions. if you could - meeting... sure. give me two| questions. if you could answer meeting... sure. give me two - questions. if you could answerjust the next few days, what should we expect? because there are a lot of rumours about what's going to happen. please give us some clarity. the next few days, we want a peaceful transfer. secondly, the people can resume their normal life. thirdly, there is no revenge on all those who were working with the kabul administration or with the foreign forces. also, we want all embassies to continue their work. there will be no risk to diplomats, anyone. all should continue their work, how they were continuing in
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the past. 50 work, how they were continuing in the ast. ~ , ., the past. so the americans and british evacuating _ the past. so the americans and british evacuating their - the past. so the americans and british evacuating their staff . the past. so the americans and | british evacuating their staff and their workers from the country, what are you saying to them, that they should remain and you won't harm them? , ., �* ., , them? yes, we won't harm them, they should remain- — them? yes, we won't harm them, they should remain. thank— them? yes, we won't harm them, they should remain. thank you _ them? yes, we won't harm them, they should remain. thank you very - them? yes, we won't harm them, they should remain. thank you very much i should remain. thank you very much for 'oinin: should remain. thank you very much forioining us— should remain. thank you very much forioining us on _ should remain. thank you very much forjoining us on bbc— should remain. thank you very much forjoining us on bbc world - should remain. thank you very much forjoining us on bbc world news, i forjoining us on bbc world news, and thank you for your time. thank ou. that and thank you for your time. thank yon that was _ and thank you for your time. thank you. that was the _ and thank you for your time. thank you. that was the spokesperson i and thank you for your time. thank you. that was the spokesperson of| you. that was the spokesperson of the taliban. _ you. that was the spokesperson of the taliban, part _ you. that was the spokesperson of the taliban, part of _ you. that was the spokesperson of the taliban, part of the _ you. that was the spokesperson of the taliban, part of the political i the taliban, part of the political office in doha. he set up that office in doha. he set up that office about 15 years ago in the hope that they would reach this point where they could be at the gates of kabul and retake the country. as you can hearfrom gates of kabul and retake the country. as you can hear from that conversation, he is attempting to reassure people and telling the international community not to leave the country. of course, we have seen
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the country. of course, we have seen the fighters on the ground, many of them i have spoken to, who have a very different view. so the difference will now be seen in weather what the spokesperson says is the policy of the taliban and whether they are able to control some of the hardline fighters who have been waging this war over the past 20 years. speaking to me from doe heart, the spokesperson of the taliban, laying out what the next days and weeks will look like. he says they want a peaceful transfer of power and they want everyone to live under the islamic emirates, including people who worked with the kabul government including police officers, interpreters, people who have worked alongside western forces. he has asked western diplomats to remain inside the country. we will put that on bbc
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iplayer and various other platforms on the bbc so you can listen again. a short while ago the acting afghan interior minister made this statement about the future of afghanistan. translation: , . , ., translation: the security of the ci has translation: the security of the city has been _ translation: the security of the city has been guaranteed. - translation: the security of the city has been guaranteed. there l translation: the security of the | city has been guaranteed. there will be no attack on the city. the city will be handed over to a third party. it is our duty to secure the city. don't be a victim of their propaganda. kabulwill city. don't be a victim of their propaganda. kabul will be safe. ok. propaganda. kabulwill be safe. ok, i am nowioined _ propaganda. kabul will be safe. 0k, lam nowjoined by propaganda. kabul will be safe. ok, i am nowjoined by a lecturer at the american university of afghanistan. i'm not sure if you heard that interview, but tell me your thoughts and what you thought about what he was saying. i and what you thought about what he was sa inc. ~ ., and what you thought about what he was sa in. ~ ., ., was saying. i feel like i have aged a few years _ was saying. i feel like i have aged a few yearsiust — was saying. i feel like i have aged a few years just today. _
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was saying. i feel like i have aged a few years just today. thank i was saying. i feel like i have aged a few years just today. thank you | was saying. i feel like i have aged i a few years just today. thank you so much for having him on. i reckon any message, any news is better than this information blackout that afghans have been seeing. that is the reason for the panic, that is the reason for the panic, that is the reason for the panic, that is the reason for the chaos. people have been on the roads, trying to get to the airports, and at the end of the day, it's good to hear that there is some sense prevailing, some sort of understanding under way, and there isn't going to be outright bloodshed within kabul. he there isn't going to be outright bloodshed within kabul. he made a number of statements. _ bloodshed within kabul. he made a number of statements. i _ bloodshed within kabul. he made a number of statements. i just i bloodshed within kabul. he made a number of statements. i just wantl number of statements. i just want you to reflect and think about the sort of things he said. he talked about the leadership of the country now coming together, the afghan elders there, as well as the taliban, working under one islamic emirate government, operating under sharia law. what does that mean for people like yourself and the young
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people like yourself and the young people at your university? do you think the university can remain open? with the taliban in power, are you hopeful, listening to him? look. you hopeful, listening to him? look, there is one — you hopeful, listening to him? look, there is one thing _ you hopeful, listening to him? look, there is one thing i _ you hopeful, listening to him? look, there is one thing i wanted _ you hopeful, listening to him? look, there is one thing i wanted to - there is one thing i wanted to comment. you were both telling the truth, most likely they were telling the truth as well because when they are saying the atrocities committed are saying the atrocities committed are just insubordinations, are saying the atrocities committed arejust insubordinations, it are saying the atrocities committed are just insubordinations, it does make sense, because the chaos within the regions and the districts allows for such things and insubordination to happen. it will be important to see what the taliban actually do once they come to power. the reason i am here with you today is because i am here with you today is because i know how much everyone is panicking, everyone's full of fear. ijust panicking, everyone's full of fear. i just wanted to say, panicking, everyone's full of fear. ijust wanted to say, this was panicking, everyone's full of fear. i just wanted to say, this was a very resilient nation. we have gone through a lot. ijust wish that
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very resilient nation. we have gone through a lot. i just wish that the taliban maintain two things, one, the idea of immunity for commoners, people who by association to the government are not found guilty, because again gandhi once said victory attained through violence is tantamount to defeat, because it's momentary. and on the other hand, there should not be any impunity for there should not be any impunity for the people responsible for robbing this country, all these politicians that eventually did make a deal for kabul, they shouldn't be allowed to just fly out without any sense of responsibility towards the country. and i'm hoping there is some way to speak sense in the international community, they will be very important at this stage. they can leverage international recognition, relief of sanctions, all of that to the taliban, to get them to create a world where we can find a middle path. the afghan people within the
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rural areas are willing to accept much of what the taliban offer, but the idea is, can they create a lifestyle the urban cities can sustain as well? that remains to be seen. for now, wejust sustain as well? that remains to be seen. for now, we just have to hope and not panic. seen. for now, we 'ust have to hope and not panic.— and not panic. let's see what the cominu and not panic. let's see what the coming days _ and not panic. let's see what the coming days bring. _ he said we need all of this brainpower, we don't want to brain drain from the country but i suppose the question is will you allow people to just carry on what they were doing before. aha, people to just carry on what they were doing before.— were doing before. a lot of brain drain has already _ were doing before. a lot of brain drain has already happened. i were doing before. a lot of brain drain has already happened. a l were doing before. a lot of brain| drain has already happened. a lot were doing before. a lot of brain i drain has already happened. a lot of people, professionals have already left and i don't see them coming back any time soon. the idea is now, it is up to the people. it is up to the people who stayed back to sit down with the taliban and negotiate certain rights with them. if there
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is going to be a social contract between the taliban run government, and become an afghan people, there has to be some understanding of what the people want. we do understand circumstances are going to change. but the idea is, how much can we negotiate with them. and our voices and our stances might someday end up changing what we are facing, the idea is our way of life lost and there is a new person, a new entity in charge and the idea is to re—flee, do we cause bloodshed or do we actually sit down and try to find a middle part?— a middle part? what are your
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friends, family, _ a middle part? what are your friends, family, colleagues. a middle part? what are your- friends, family, colleagues saying today in kabul? there is a lot of desperation. irate today in kabul? there is a lot of desperation-— today in kabul? there is a lot of deseration. . ., ., ., ., , desperation. we all had our moments of breakin: desperation. we all had our moments of breaking down _ desperation. we all had our moments of breaking down because _ desperation. we all had our moments of breaking down because it's - of breaking down because it's difficult. everything that you imagined, everything you dream of, everything you came for and it's quite alarming because you are being bombarded from all directions with regards to what you are doing, are you safe? obviously, we did not have assurances. this morning, you could hear gunfire and the idea of house—to—house searches happening. all of those were alarming outcomes that everyone was scared of. i still have my cousins messaging me if i have my cousins messaging me if i have left home yet. i am hoping that will not happen and we can speak sense and our common identity has
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last night as afghans can help us. we have been running for decades. we have been destroying what we have built. let's not do this again. let's make sure that we can try to move forward this time and i hope the political entity of the taliban which has a newer generation that has studied abroad, they, when in charge, can help create an afghanistan that the people want and it is not a repeat of the mistakes of our past. i it is not a repeat of the mistakes of our past-— of our past. i think you 'ust touched i of our past. i think you 'ust touched on i of our past. i think you 'ust touched on a i of our past. i think you 'ust touched on a very i of our past. i think you just | touched on a very important of our past. i think you just i touched on a very important point about afghans not wanting to become about afghans not wanting to become a refugee or an asylum seeker. they want to stay in their homes, they want to stay in their homes, they want to stay in their communities. the young people in kabulfor the last two decades have built something for themselves. they don't want to uproot and stop from scratch
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again. —— and start from scratch again. -- and start from scratch aaain. , ., ., , , again. everyone of us left lives abroad. again. everyone of us left lives abroad- the)! _ again. everyone of us left lives abroad. they came _ again. everyone of us left lives abroad. they came home, i again. everyone of us left lives i abroad. they came home, especially the ones that actually studied abroad. they came here to serve the country because they could not live far away from it and i have been told by people that i might need to be extracted, i might need to seek asylum but i cannot imagine a life without this country. it's our home. we have to stand for it, for better or worse. without us, it willjust be a echo chamber without them. if we don't raise our voices, if we don't negotiate with them for a decent way of life, afghanistan isn't going to get anywhere. so, it's our responsibility and it's natural to panic, it's natural to get scared. i am not unpatriotic
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that night and not unpatriotic to run and flee because everyone is responsibility that it has a responsibility that it has a responsibility to look after their family. this is where history will decide what afghanistan will become. thank you very much. i'm joined now by viktor urosevic, medical co—ordinator at emergency hospital in lashkar gah. give us a picture of what is happening there because there was heavy fighting there.— heavy fighting there. hello, everyone- _ heavy fighting there. hello, everyone. yes, _ heavy fighting there. hello, everyone. yes, basically i heavy fighting there. hello, l everyone. yes, basically from heavy fighting there. hello, i everyone. yes, basically from the 1st of august, we had weeks of heavy clashes between the governmental forces and the taliban. on thursday afternoon, they negotiated and we were told that the forces would leave and basically since thursday evening to this moment, it is
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completely different. it is quiet, life is getting back to normal. the roads are opal and people are trying to rebuild their houses. i would say it is normal here now. is to rebuild their houses. i would say it is normal here now.— it is normal here now. is your hosital it is normal here now. is your hospital overwhelmed? i it is normal here now. is your hospital overwhelmed? a i it is normal here now. is your hospital overwhelmed? a lot| it is normal here now. is your l hospital overwhelmed? a lot of people left but of course they were also a lot of injured and dead. in this moment, we are working at almost full capacity because we have... the patients that are coming in the last two days, you can see that it in the last two days, you can see thatitis in the last two days, you can see that it is less dynamic in the city. do you have medical supplies? are there certain things that you are missing and need?— there certain things that you are missing and need? fortunately, we alwa s missing and need? fortunately, we always have — missing and need? fortunately, we always have a _ missing and need? fortunately, we always have a rule _ missing and need? fortunately, we always have a rule to _ missing and need? fortunately, we always have a rule to keep - missing and need? fortunately, we always have a rule to keep supplies forfour always have a rule to keep supplies for four and a always have a rule to keep supplies forfour and a half months, so we did not any issues. bud
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for four and a half months, so we did not any issues.— did not any issues. and 'ust in aeneral, did not any issues. and 'ust in general. fl did not any issues. and 'ust in general, are people i did not any issues. and just in general, are people leaving i did not any issues. and just in l general, are people leaving the did not any issues. and just in i general, are people leaving the area still or have they returned to their homes? , . , still or have they returned to their homes? , ., , ., homes? they are returning. they are cominu homes? they are returning. they are coming back — homes? they are returning. they are coming back with _ homes? they are returning. they are coming back with their _ homes? they are returning. they are coming back with their families i coming back with their families because... now, everybody is back and they are trying to pick up where they left. and they are trying to pick up where the left. ., ., ., they left. ok, we will have to leave it there. thank _ they left. ok, we will have to leave it there. thank you _ they left. ok, we will have to leave it there. thank you very _ they left. ok, we will have to leave it there. thank you very much i they left. ok, we will have to leave it there. thank you very much for. it there. thank you very much for joining us. shahid raza is an analyst based in islamabad and hejoins us now. thank you very much forjoining us here on the programme. there is a lot of blame game going on and certainly in afghanistan, the finger of blame has been in the last few weeks pointed at pakistan. thank you for havin: weeks pointed at pakistan. thank you for having me- _ weeks pointed at pakistan. thank you for having me. obviously, _ weeks pointed at pakistan. thank you for having me. obviously, it - weeks pointed at pakistan. thank you for having me. obviously, it is - weeks pointed at pakistan. thank you for having me. obviously, it is a i for having me. obviously, it is a watershed moment, what is happening in afghanistan today specifically as
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we understand that there is a siege of kabul and there is ongoing negotiations between the afghan government and the taliban. we have also heard that the president might resign. it is also interesting what you said. it is unfortunate because the afghan government until recently have not managed to secure their own areas. they have 300,000 strong military and they have had significant western aid as far as training is concerned with what we have seen it throughout afghanistan, they have not been able to secure afghanistan's border crossings with afg hanistan's border crossings with its afghanistan's border crossings with its neighbours and it would be unfair to its neighbours and it would be unfairto blame its neighbours and it would be unfair to blame pakistan for the lack on behalf of the afghan forces to fight. the president and his
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associates have been consistently blaming pakistan but it is not a solution to the problem. afghanistan's problem is a dynamic and fluid issue that needs to be resolved in afghanistan itself. pakistan's role is limited. i have s - oken pakistan's role is limited. i have spoken to _ pakistan's role is limited. i have spoken to very _ pakistan's role is limited. i have spoken to very well— pakistan's role is limited. i have spoken to very well respected . spoken to very well respected analysts and experts about this and i have spoken to your national security adviser in pakistan about this last week about the use of the taliban over the last three decades as part of pakistan's proxy war. i have spoken to former senators in pakistan who have said to me it is not the civilian government. this is part of the security establishment's policy to use the taliban to fund them, to provide them with sanctuary, to use them against the afghan state because a week afghan state helps them regionally against
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india and to deal with issues like kashmirfor india and to deal with issues like kashmir for example. that india and to deal with issues like kashmir for example.— india and to deal with issues like kashmir for example. that is very interesting- _ kashmir for example. that is very interesting. it's _ kashmir for example. that is very interesting. it's an _ kashmir for example. that is very interesting. it's an interesting i interesting. it's an interesting perspective. i would like to bring you back to the speech given by the former head of the cia and the head of the american military mission in afghanistan, he was speaking at the royal united institute in britain and he was asked this question directly. the question you have asked me, and his response was, during my time, i have not seen any significant evidence that supports the idea that afghanistan has been eitherfunding or supporting the idea that afghanistan has been either funding or supporting the taliban. obviously, there is contact but that is consistent with what other countries are doing. britain has contact with the taliban. americans have had direct negotiations with the taliban. it is consistent with what you as a country would do. anything that happens in afghanistan has a direct impact on pakistan. the refugee crisis that has happened is the
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fourth refugee wave that pakistan will have to take care of. obviously, pakistan cannot be detached to afghanistan's situation but the idea that it has been using afghanistan as a proxy... it does not merit facts. the afghan taliban as you would have seen over the last three weeks have taken over most of afghanistan without any resistance. they enjoy enormous public support, at least in the rural areas of afghanistan. i at least in the rural areas of afghanistan.— at least in the rural areas of afghanistan. at least in the rural areas of aft hanistan. ~ ., at least in the rural areas of aft hanistan. ~' ., ., ~ afghanistan. i think we need to make a distinction — afghanistan. i think we need to make a distinction between _ afghanistan. i think we need to make a distinction between what _ afghanistan. i think we need to make a distinction between what happens l a distinction between what happens in certain parts of the country and the urban areas. we just spoke to someone who said it's fine if we look at the rural areas but we have to see if they can create a life is here in urban areas. yes, i mean back to your point, i have spoken to
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pakistani president, who has told us that they have used the taliban as part of the proxy war. he said i did it, it was part of the policy, it is what we needed. we needed a week afghanistan and it was part of our national security policy. i afghanistan and it was part of our national security policy.— national security policy. i think he was referring _ national security policy. i think he was referring to _ national security policy. i think he was referring to what _ national security policy. i think he was referring to what happened i national security policy. i think he i was referring to what happened back in the 90s. there was a very vicious war in the wake of the soviet invasion and there were seven major fractions which were completely supported by pakistan, the us, britain and some arab countries. when the war ended, the americans and the west simply withdrew from afghanistan which created a vacuum, which led to a vicious civil war and in that particular context, pakistan did actually back one particular fraction of that civil war, which
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was a mistake and if you talk to any pakistani policymakers, they will tell you that it was a mistake back then. at the end of the day, what we are talking about in a contemporary context, pakistan's role is much more nuanced. it does have influence over the taliban but to say that it has some automated control over the taliban or a proxy is a simply incorrect statement. the taliban are a autonomous group. to say that pakistan have been using them as a proxy in a contemporary context is wrong but if you are talking about the civil war in the mid—90s, then the civil war in the mid—90s, then the blame would have to be shared. we were in it together. we the blame would have to be shared. we were in it together.— the blame would have to be shared. we were in it together. we will have to leave it there. _ we were in it together. we will have to leave it there. thank _ we were in it together. we will have to leave it there. thank you - we were in it together. we will have to leave it there. thank you much i to leave it there. thank you much forjoining us. my colleague from bbc persian, farhad tayeb, joins me now. good to see you. i'm not sure if you just heard that interview. he sort
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of talked about what was next for the people of kabul what are you hearing from your contacts and the people that you have been speaking to? i people that you have been speaking to? ., ., ., to? i did hear part of that interview. _ to? i did hear part of that interview. what - to? i did hear part of that interview. what we're i to? i did hear part of that i interview. what we're from to? i did hear part of that - interview. what we're from kabul is that some calm has returned to the streets of kabul after widespread panic across the city when people witnessed helicopters moving rapidly between international airports and the us embassy, which is within two or three kilometres of the city moving personnel back and forth and also firing sort of heat flares in an attempt i believe to deflect any possible attacks. earlier today, there was widespread panic across there was widespread panic across the city as people tried to go to banks and withdraw money, people reported that they had been turned away from the banks and atms had
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stopped working. there were also pictures circulated on social media with shops being boarded up and with quite a lot of panic across the city. however, i'm hearing slightly more positive news from the situation on the ground that it is a little bit calmer than earlier today. little bit calmer than earlier toda . . ~ little bit calmer than earlier toda . ., ,, i. little bit calmer than earlier toda . ., ~' ,, , little bit calmer than earlier toda. ., , . ., little bit calmer than earlier toda. ., ,, , . ., ., today. thank you very much for that u date on today. thank you very much for that update on the _ today. thank you very much for that update on the situation _ today. thank you very much for that update on the situation on - today. thank you very much for that update on the situation on the i update on the situation on the ground here in kabul. we can speak now to shabnam nasimi, director of conservative friends of afghanistan here in the uk. thank you very much forjoining us here on the programme. just if you can reflect on what has happened in afghanistan and i suppose in particular kabul over the last 2a hours. particular kabul over the last 24 hours. . ~ particular kabul over the last 24 hours. ., ,, i. particular kabul over the last 24 hours. ., ~' ,, ~' particular kabul over the last 24 hours. ., , i. ~ ., particular kabul over the last 24 hours. ., , ~ ., ., hours. thank you, i think we are all in shock. hours. thank you, i think we are all in shock- i — hours. thank you, i think we are all in shock. i have _ hours. thank you, i think we are all in shock. i have been _ hours. thank you, i think we are all in shock. i have been receiving i in shock. i have been receiving messages and calls frantically since yesterday begging for help to leave. panic is definitely real. i think
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the angerfor myself panic is definitely real. i think the anger for myself is quite strong. we were not forced out. when i say we, i mean britain. the losses that we sustained in the early years of the conflict in afghanistan meant that british soldiers had not been killed in combat since 2013. we chose to leave and that is what is so heartbreaking about this. the consequences were clearly obvious. the afghan armed forces were trained to fight alongside western power and they would always struggle alone. the helicopters served by the now departed us contractors... more than that, i think leaving suddenly, the morale is hitting people so hard. they've thought it's over, good luck and goodbye. after 20 years, we have walked away from sustainable peace because it was taking too long. for example, we stayed in germany for
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far more than 40 years. we are still in cyprus today. the us has been in south korea since the 1950s and japan since the second world war. the strategic patience when the cold war and kept the un line peaceful. that could have been done in afghanistan today as well. keeping 10,000 nato troops was not a huge commitment from anyone. i 10,000 nato troops was not a huge commitment from anyone.- 10,000 nato troops was not a huge commitment from anyone. i think when i seak to commitment from anyone. i think when i speak to counterterrorism _ commitment from anyone. i think when i speak to counterterrorism experts i i speak to counterterrorism experts as well as they say they didn't need 10,000 in the country it could have been the 3500 that they had. the irony is that they have now had to send 3000 troops because they took 2500 troops out. in send 3000 troops because they took 2500 troops out.— 2500 troops out. in iraq right now, there are 3500 _ 2500 troops out. in iraq right now, there are 3500 nato _ 2500 troops out. in iraq right now, there are 3500 nato troops - 2500 troops out. in iraq right now, | there are 3500 nato troops present in a non—combat role simply there to make sure that groups don't take over. that could have been done in afghanistan. there is no logic behind this and as we are talking
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about global britain, it's worth talking about what that actually means. potential allies will be watching us and weighing up whether we are as good as it our word stop this isn'tjust about we are as good as it our word stop this isn't just about afghanistan. as the other critical part of this. it's afghanistan's crisis has always been a regional crisis and it is one of the reasons why the us and the world went into afghanistan in the first place. anything that happens in that country directly not only impacts neighbours but as in the west, and particularly with the growing power, china and russia, that will fill a vacuum and cause a lot more instability. parliament is now being recalled to wednesday. there is a potential that we can turn this around. we need to. investing in ourselves, our allies, our partners has never been easier or more importantly now and i hope to see british mps standing up on wednesday and calling this out as a huge mistake.
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wednesday and calling this out as a huge mistake-— huge mistake. listening to other ruests, huge mistake. listening to other guests. i'm _ huge mistake. listening to other guests. i'm not _ huge mistake. listening to other guests, i'm not quite _ huge mistake. listening to other guests, i'm not quite sure - huge mistake. listening to other guests, i'm not quite sure as i huge mistake. listening to other i guests, i'm not quite sure as some were saying that they went to work with the international community. the taliban went to work with the international community and he said that this should not be any evacuations. i suppose it's a question of trust, isn't it? absolutely. you've seen from your countless interviews with the taliban spokesperson in doha and the taliban spokesperson in doha and the taliban on the ground, that the reality is actually very different. what they say in doha is a lot more diplomatic and what they actually put in practice in kabul and they have been doing not only in the last couple of weeks but months in terms of forcefully trying to get into power, targeting students, women, journalists, activists. we don't need to find proof. i do hope that we can hopefully fight for human
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rights with the taliban. now is the time. the future is still bleak but i think what we need now more than ever is to make sure that the world will fight for the millions of women in afghanistan who are once again in anguish about being locked up behind closed doors. my family members in kabul are a shining example of that. they are one of the most humble, resilient bravest women that we've seen around the world. as the taliban suite continues, already since may, over 330,000 have fled taliban —controlled areas in kabul and the city is in chaos today. they will desperately need food, shelter and i urge the community, international community to act now.
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we need to make sure that we are not withdrawing in terms of a humanitarian way as well. earlier i spoke to the former uk ambassador to afghanistan sir nick kay — and began by asking him what he felt had gone wrong in the country. personally, i hang my head in shame. the words betrayal and abandonment, i think you used earlier, and that is what afghans feel. afghan colleagues, friends, afghans who have worked hard to build a modern afghanistan. they have worked hard as reliable allies and partners over the years. i hang my head in shame. there will be time to learn lessons and look back and really understand what has gone wrong. but in the short—term, i think the focus is very much our two hour,
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as secunder said. at the moment, there isjust a small sense of cautious optimism that the bloodbath, the bloody fight for kabul is going to be avoided and there will be a relatively peaceful transition of some sort. and the safe passage of notjust foreign staff and diplomats, but also those who have worked for us, interpreters and others who have loyally served, is going ahead and will be allowed to go ahead. let us hope that is all true. indeed, very much though. as you say, a lot of uncertainty. i am speaking to interpreters and journalists who work for britain and the united states, and they tell me they have heard nothing. there is no message of support or help, they are not sure what is going to happen next. like you, i have frequent upsetting
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calls and whatsapp messages from afghans who are facing real fears and dangerous situations. i know colleagues will be working day and night to try to resolve and to get as many people to safety as possible, and that is going ahead, and from what secunder said also, the taliban have said this should be allowed to happen. but i think our attention increasingly turns to this new reality that has leapt upon us at breakneck speed, a reality in which there is an afghanistan in which the taliban play a dominant, is not the dominant role. it is time now to start setting out a very clear expectations of what the taliban need to do to be respectable members of the international community providing governance and services
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that their people in a way that their people are feeling represented, feeling happy and having their rights and freedoms respected a whole list of measures that we will be needing to watch and judge the taliban by their actions, not by their words. the point he made there was judging the taliban based on their actions not words. we just spoke to the taliban spokesperson, who laid out the policy that the taliban hoped to implement when they make a return to kabul. he could not give clarity on what law and order would look like in the country but he said that they would like to keep girls and women in the school and they said that for the residents of kabul not to panic
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and they are hoping for a peaceful transfer of power with no retaliation or revenge attacks. you are watching bbc news. hello, we have got a mixture of weather for the rest of today. still some patchy rain and drizzle around. some areas seeing sunshine. one thing that sunshine particularly towards east anglia before it tends to cloud over later from the west. more clouds bringing more showers into wales and england. brighter skies in northern ireland, and southern scotland. more heavy showers for the north, where it feels quite chilly today. high temperatures in the south—east and east anglia. the cricket at lord's in the afternoon session, there will be some sunshine rounds before it clouds over into the evening session. it is shaping
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up the evening session. it is shaping up to be an exciting test match. more clouds and some showery rain around this evening. then we have got these bands of showers moving down away from scotland and into the north—east of england. more clouds out of the west, keeping temperatures up with clearer skies in the north—east of scotland. temperatures in the morning could be seven or 8 degrees. the showers will move down the north sea on that weather fronts there. we draw down this north—westerly breeze which will bring cooler air write—down across this goal the country. we will see more sunshine breaking out in eastern england today. temperatures only 17 degrees in the central belt of scotland, may be making 19 or 20 in southern parts of england. ourarea is coming
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making 19 or 20 in southern parts of england. our area is coming all the way from the atlantic and it is coming around the top of this high pressure. it means more moisture being picked up and a lot of cloud driving our way on tuesday. they could be some patchy rain and drizzle to clear away from england or wales in the morning leaving showers in the afternoon. many places will be dry but not much sunshine around. temperatures will be struggling up to around 18 or 19 degrees. a quiet week ahead and we expect a lot of cloud around. for much of the time it will be dry but it will not be very warm for this time of the year.
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this is bbc news, i'm philippa thomas. our top stories. the rush to leave kabul, as the taliban make rapid advances, right to the edge of the afghan capital. afghanistan's interior minister says negotiations are taking place to ensure a peaceful transition of power and the city will not be attacked. taliban militants have rolled through the entire country in a matter of weeks. in a bbc interview, a spokesman says women will be safe if they wear the hijab. women can have access to education and to work, and of course they will observe the hijab — that is it.

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