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tv   BBC News  BBC News  August 26, 2021 2:00pm-5:01pm BST

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this is bbc news. the headlines: as the election and deadline draws closer, several european countries have either finished flights or plan to finish flights from kabul airport in the next few hours. the security situation is obviously not improving, but we've got the overwhelming majority out. warnings of an imminent and lethal terror attack on kabul airport with thousands of desperate afghans still waiting there for a flight out of their country. they're in such a state of confusion, i really don't think that information is trickling down to them and they've already endured so much that i don't think it's really going to be a majorfactor in whether or not they decide to stay at the airport. they're so desperate to leave the country. the covid vaccine roll—out could be extended next month
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to children aged 12 to 15. nhs trusts in england have been told to prepare. the nhs waiting list crisis in northern ireland — most patients who need a first appointment with a consultant have to wait more than a year. a golden day in tokyo for paralympics gb — a haul of five gold medals on day two of the games. and coming up — scientists say light pollution may be contributing to declines in local insect populations. good afternoon and welcome to bbc news. british citizens still in afghanistan are being warned to stay away from kabul airport because of fears there could be a "lethal" terror attack there, possibly within hours.
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the government says intelligence suggesting a "very imminent" attack is "ever more certain". but in the last hour, the prime minister has said british troops have now got the "overwhelming majority" of eligible people out of the country, with the evacuation due to end on tuesday. our diplomatic correspondent paul adams reports. an airlift in its last days, relentless, round the clock, but starting to wind down, several european countries already calling it a day. can you set your bag there? you'll come back and get checked. and in these last moments, a sense of real danger, america and britain among those warning of a specific terrorist threat. the threat is credible, it is imminent, it is lethal. we would not be saying this if we were not genuinely concerned
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about offering islamic state a target that isjust unimaginable. but what about those who won't make it out in time? all around the airport, despite the heat and squalor, they queue, they wait and they hope. but many of these people will be left behind. this morning, the prime minister visited the crisis centre at northwood where britain's evacuation effort is being run staff here still in touch with former afghan interpreters and others waiting to get out. borisjohnson says the overwhelming majority have now left and for those who haven't... we hope to continue to be able to say to people, you can come out and one of the key things that we are saying to the government, the new authorities in kabul is to engage with the west, to unlock those funds, safe passage for those who want to come out is obviously the number one condition.
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the next phase, the government says, is for people to leave by land, but on the border with pakistan more huge crowds, some crossings open, others closed. afghanistan faces other monumental tasks. kabul is full of displaced people, driven to the capital by conflict and deprivation. there's no shelter and little food. translation: you can see the situation of the people, the condition they're in. we are in an open field in the heat. we hope the government will pay attention to this. back at the airport this morning, some of the last to leave. by the weekend, this huge airlift will be over, final steps on home soil for people taking little, leaving much behind. paul adams, bbc news. our correspondent secunder kermani is in kabul, and said it's unclear whether the message not to gather
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at the airport was reaching those people attempting to leave the city. well, i was at the airport yesterday afternoon and there were still huge crowds gathering there, really desperate scenes — old women being pushed along, rubbish strewn, dirt tracks and wheelbarrows, young children being carried by their parents, whole families camped out for days at a time and many of those who were gathered there don't have the right travel documents to be able to board an evacuation flight. they are simply clutching files of paper showing that they have worked with foreign forces, international embassies, hoping to wave that in the faces of the soldiers who are guarding the gates and somehow be let through. that won't happen, but it also makes it even more chaotic, of course. this threat warning really raising a lot of concern, but for the people there, they are in such a state of confusion, i really don't think that information is trickling down to them and they have already ensured so much that i don't think it's really going to be a major factor in whether or not they decide to stay at the airport.
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they're so desperate to leave the country and they have gone through so much that they are going to carry on doing so. now, elsewhere in the city, though, in kabul, things are much calmer. i was out and about, shops are open, restaurants are open. every time i speak to shopkeepers, they say that business is terrible at the moment because there are far fewer people than usual and because banks are still closed, so people are struggling to get hold of any cash. there is of course also deep anxiety about the future, what life will be like under the taliban. at the moment they seem quite consolatory in public but many fear once the international focus shifts, they will become much harsher. we can speak now to dr hans—jakob schindler, senior director at the counter extremism project. thank you very much forjoining us on bbc news today. do take stock for us first of all of the situation that afghanistan is in right now,
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the evacuation efforts at the airport ever more urgent, this threat we are told of an imminent attack. it seems that the efforts to get remaining people out who have the paperwork to get out are at grave risk right now, frankly. weill. grave risk right now, frankly. well, thank ou grave risk right now, frankly. well, thank you very _ grave risk right now, frankly. well, thank you very much _ grave risk right now, frankly. well, thank you very much for _ grave risk right now, frankly. well, thank you very much for having - grave risk right now, frankly. -ii thank you very much for having me. yes, indeed, there is a grave threat as your listeners may know. the islamic state announced a province in afghanistan shortly after they gained territory in iraq and syria and have been active ever since, close to kabul in the east of afghanistan. proven over the past couple of years that they are capable and willing to conduct numerous bomb attacks in the kabul city area, so the threat is very real. we are seeing right now is the end of the large—scale evacuation procedures and the last couple of days, unfortunately, will have to be reserved for the dismantling of the rather substantial us security infrastructure around the airport and the withdrawal of the last 5800
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us troops which are still on the ground meaning there will not be too many more spaces for anyone else. that is why european countries, including the uk and germany, have announced that they are wrapping up their flights by this evening. ianthem their flights by this evening. when we look at the _ their flights by this evening. when we look at the various _ their flights by this evening. when we look at the various groups - their flights by this evening. when we look at the various groups within afghanistan, does the taliban have any interest in trying to stop this attack that we are told about, that we are being warned about around the airport? the we are being warned about around the airort? . ., , ., ., airport? the taliban always had a rather mysterious _ airport? the taliban always had a rather mysterious relationship . airport? the taliban always had a i rather mysterious relationship with the islamic state in afghanistan. they forked them in every area where they had interest, wherever the islamic state disrupted their production of drugs and heroin. they did not strategically fight all over the country especially not in the last remaining strongholds, which makes me doubtful that the taliban have the ability to hold the islamic
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state back. having an interest to have a terrorist attack right now the airport in kabul? no, i doubt their capability to prevent this if push comes to shop.— their capability to prevent this if push comes to shop. when you say you doubt they have _ push comes to shop. when you say you doubt they have the _ push comes to shop. when you say you doubt they have the ability _ push comes to shop. when you say you doubt they have the ability to _ push comes to shop. when you say you doubt they have the ability to hold - doubt they have the ability to hold so—called islamic state back or isis k, this offshoot, what does this say to you about the immediate future of afghanistan after western forces afg ha nista n after western forces have left kabul afghanistan after western forces have left kabul airport while there are still many people wanting to leave the country, who may be trying to make their way through afghanistan to border checkpoints to do so or who may not be able to leave at all?— do so or who may not be able to leave at all? well, i mean, first of all, aart leave at all? well, i mean, first of all. apart from _ leave at all? well, i mean, first of all, apart from this _ leave at all? well, i mean, first of all, apart from this strange - all, apart from this strange relationship with the islamic state, its relationship with al-qaeda and the numerous affiliate of al-qaeda that actually operate within the country, including from central asia, china and pakistan, is a very different one. it is a symbiotic relationship. they never really broke that relationship and they
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very obviously are not asking those fighters to leave either, so this relationship will continue, will strengthen, very likely there is a big risk that afghanistan becomes now again a draw for all islamist terrorist individuals who would like to get training in the next couple of years, so i do not see that afghanistan is progressing in a positive direction. as for afghans leaving, a couple of days ago, very openly, the taliban said no more afghans were to be moving. it remains today seen if their understanding that they will need international money in order to keep at least a semblance of an economy in the financial system running in the country is strong enough to accept some kind of deals, aid money against the allowance of these people to leave, but that still is not exactly sure. find people to leave, but that still is not exactly sure.— people to leave, but that still is not exactly sure. and i 'ust wonder, based on what h not exactly sure. and i 'ust wonder, based on what you _ not exactly sure. and i just wonder, based on what you have _ not exactly sure. and i just wonder, based on what you have said, - not exactly sure. and i just wonder, based on what you have said, and i based on what you have said, and listening to what the taliban have
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said, promises, pledges they have made with concerns alongside doubts about the unfolding humanitarian situation, if the taliban, along without a user, will be so preoccupied with fighting isis that the humanitarian situation deteriorates purely because their focus will be on that.— focus will be on that. well, obviously _ focus will be on that. well, obviously the _ focus will be on that. well, obviously the international| obviously the international community, i do not think, has any intention to stop humanitarian help to afghanistan. that is illegal under international law, but developed aid is under question. there will not be a lot of effort from the taliban to fight isil. it is only really in the east of afghanistan, not the whole of the country, so they choose to do so, they could eradicate that terror threat fairly easily. but until this time, they have chosen not to do so unless the islamic state fighters were disrupting their moneymaking exercises, in particular drug
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production. exercises, in particular drug production-— exercises, in particular drug production. exercises, in particular drug roduction. . , , ., production. really interesting to hear our production. really interesting to hear your thoughts _ production. really interesting to hear your thoughts on _ production. really interesting to hear your thoughts on all - production. really interesting to hear your thoughts on all of - production. really interesting to hear your thoughts on all of that today. thank you very much. the council for at—risk academics are trying to get some people out of afghanistan. it's something that the mp julian lewis has been pushing for. he's also a former chairman of the defence select committee and we can talk to him now. thank you forjoining us and i understand one of the 12 academics is the sister—in—law of constituents of yours and that is how you have become involved in this, i expect. how grave is the threats to this group? how grave is the threats to this arou - ? ~ ~ , , group? well, i think it is extremely rave to a group? well, i think it is extremely grave to a number _ group? well, i think it is extremely grave to a number of _ group? well, i think it is extremely grave to a number of individuals . group? well, i think it is extremely grave to a number of individuals in | grave to a number of individuals in the group — grave to a number of individuals in the group and i want to give all credit_ the group and i want to give all credit to — the group and i want to give all credit to a _ the group and i want to give all credit to a network of british universities, and i have a shortlist. _ universities, and i have a shortlist, oxford, cambridge, ucl, imperial— shortlist, oxford, cambridge, ucl, imperialand, indeed, nearto my constituency, southampton university, that have actually offered —
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university, that have actually offered sponsorship, studentships and visiting fellowships to 12 at risk academics in afghanistan, so there _ risk academics in afghanistan, so there is— risk academics in afghanistan, so there is sponsorship there, university post there, all that is required. — university post there, all that is required, inverted, is, is to get them _ required, inverted, is, is to get them safely out of the country and i must _ them safely out of the country and i must say, _ them safely out of the country and i must say, before i even knew the name _ must say, before i even knew the name of— must say, before i even knew the name of your last person speaking on this programme, i had written down that this, _ this programme, i had written down that this, irr— this programme, i had written down that this, in a sense, is going to be that this, in a sense, is going to he boris — that this, in a sense, is going to be borisjohnson's schindler's list moments — be borisjohnson's schindler's list moments because there are 12 people here who, _ moments because there are 12 people here who, in — moments because there are 12 people here who, in the sense, represent the future — here who, in the sense, represent the future of afghanistan and who need _ the future of afghanistan and who need to— the future of afghanistan and who need to be saved. and the future of afghanistan and who need to be saved.— need to be saved. and that is the big question. _ need to be saved. and that is the big question, though, _ need to be saved. and that is the big question, though, how - need to be saved. and that is the big question, though, how can i need to be saved. and that is the l big question, though, how can they get out now? i appreciate you will want to be extremely careful about what you say about their circumstances at the moment. are you in a position to say whether they are close to the airport or are they in hiding? aha, are close to the airport or are they in hidin: ? �* , are close to the airport or are they in hidin: ? . , ., , are close to the airport or are they in hidinu?�* , ., , , in hiding? a number of these people are in kabul. — in hiding? a number of these people are in kabul, but— in hiding? a number of these people are in kabul, but the _ in hiding? a number of these people are in kabul, but the idea _ in hiding? a number of these people are in kabul, but the idea that - are in kabul, but the idea that without— are in kabul, but the idea that without being called and sent for by
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the government that they should then proceed _ the government that they should then proceed willy—nilly to the airport, ithink— proceed willy—nilly to the airport, i think is— proceed willy—nilly to the airport, i think is really unrealistic and too dangerous. therefore, the question— too dangerous. therefore, the question is, because i know that at least _ question is, because i know that at least three — question is, because i know that at least three cabinet ministers are aware _ least three cabinet ministers are aware of— least three cabinet ministers are aware of this group, the question is, are _ aware of this group, the question is, are the — aware of this group, the question is, are the government going to send out, as— is, are the government going to send out, as it _ is, are the government going to send out, as it were, an escort to pick up out, as it were, an escort to pick up these — out, as it were, an escort to pick up these people, some of whom are in hiding _ up these people, some of whom are in hiding they— up these people, some of whom are in hiding. they have all the details of all the _ hiding. they have all the details of all the credentials and the whole point _ all the credentials and the whole point is, — all the credentials and the whole point is, as you will have realised from _ point is, as you will have realised from the — point is, as you will have realised from the earlier interview at about 11am from the earlier interview at about iiam with — from the earlier interview at about 11am with the director of the countit— 11am with the director of the council for at—risk academics, an organisation which was founded to save jewish intellectuals from the nazi regime in the 1930s, you will have _ nazi regime in the 1930s, you will have realised from this that they are sort— have realised from this that they are sort of— have realised from this that they are sort of already and waiting to look after— are sort of already and waiting to look after these people if, in fact, they can _ look after these people if, in fact, they can he — look after these people if, in fact, they can be extracted. i was
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impressed by ben wallace's statement to the _ impressed by ben wallace's statement to the mps yesterday when he said that if— to the mps yesterday when he said that if people can get to third countries then the process of getting — countries then the process of getting qualified people into the united _ getting qualified people into the united kingdom will continue and the point about the organisation cara is that they— point about the organisation cara is that they have been working for more than 80 _ that they have been working for more than 80 years in validating people so there _ than 80 years in validating people so there is— than 80 years in validating people so there is no risk at anyone they put forward — so there is no risk at anyone they put forward is not supremely qualified to come to this country and take — qualified to come to this country and take up an academic position in one of— and take up an academic position in one of the _ and take up an academic position in one of the universities. but and take up an academic position in one of the universities.— and take up an academic position in one of the universities. but to come back to the — one of the universities. but to come back to the process, _ one of the universities. but to come back to the process, then, - one of the universities. but to come back to the process, then, of - back to the process, then, of getting to that point, what have cabinet minister said to you about your request to try to get this group out?— your request to try to get this group out? your request to try to get this a-rou out? ~ , . ., group out? well, they have all said that they have _ group out? well, they have all said that they have fed _ group out? well, they have all said that they have fed it _ group out? well, they have all said that they have fed it into _ group out? well, they have all said that they have fed it into the - that they have fed it into the system — that they have fed it into the system and, you know, we are all waiting _ system and, you know, we are all waiting to — system and, you know, we are all waiting to hear, will the call,? all i waiting to hear, will the call,? all i want _ waiting to hear, will the call,? all i want to— waiting to hear, will the call,? all i want to this programme to do, and i want to this programme to do, and
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iwouid _ i want to this programme to do, and i would perhaps urge the bbc to do, is lots— i would perhaps urge the bbc to do, is let's think outside the box a bit and challenge education ministers because _ and challenge education ministers because education ministers are not directly— because education ministers are not directly involved in the afghanistan disaster— directly involved in the afghanistan disaster at the moment except that here is— disaster at the moment except that here is a _ disaster at the moment except that here is a chance to have a knowwhat's arc moment, if you like, to save _ knowwhat's arc moment, if you like, to save the _ knowwhat's arc moment, if you like, to save the cream of afghan intellectuals but it requires a minister— intellectuals but it requires a minister to get the people who even now are _ minister to get the people who even now are still organising the list that they— now are still organising the list that they are going out to rescue to id that they are going out to rescue to go out _ that they are going out to rescue to go out and — that they are going out to rescue to go out and get these 12 scholars and bring _ go out and get these 12 scholars and bring them — go out and get these 12 scholars and bring them to the airport to safety. if bring them to the airport to safety. if they _ bring them to the airport to safety. if they cannot get out of kabul airport before next tuesday and the uk operation is likely to wind up before that, isn't it, how difficult do you think communication will become in terms of efforts to get them to a border crossing?-
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become in terms of efforts to get them to a border crossing? well, i really would _ them to a border crossing? well, i really would rather _ them to a border crossing? well, i really would rather not _ them to a border crossing? well, i really would rather not talk - them to a border crossing? well, i really would rather not talk aboutl really would rather not talk about anything — really would rather not talk about anything like that. i would hope that it _ anything like that. i would hope that it would still be possible to communicate one way or another with these _ communicate one way or another with these people, some of whom are in deeper— these people, some of whom are in deeper hiding than others and they themselves, obviously, must have to be themselves, obviously, must have to he the _ themselves, obviously, must have to he the final— themselves, obviously, must have to be the final arbiter of what risks they are — be the final arbiter of what risks they are going to take, the risk of staying _ they are going to take, the risk of staying put— they are going to take, the risk of staying put and being persecuted or worse _ staying put and being persecuted or worse or— staying put and being persecuted or worse or the risks of being waylaid on their— worse or the risks of being waylaid on their route to borders to a third country _ on their route to borders to a third country at — on their route to borders to a third country. at the end of the day, because — country. at the end of the day, because of— country. at the end of the day, because of the disastrous policies of two _ because of the disastrous policies of two successive american presidents, these people have had their expectations raised and there profiles _ their expectations raised and there profiles exposed to an extreme degree — profiles exposed to an extreme degree of danger. at the end of all that process, we do not have that degree _ that process, we do not have that degree of— that process, we do not have that degree of control. it will be up to the individuals themselves to make the individuals themselves to make the best— the individuals themselves to make the bestjudgments of
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the individuals themselves to make the best judgments of whether they think they can get to a third country— think they can get to a third country or not. what i am confident about— country or not. what i am confident about is— country or not. what i am confident about is that — country or not. what i am confident about is that if they can get to a third _ about is that if they can get to a third country, there will be plenty of us _ third country, there will be plenty of us who— third country, there will be plenty of us who will be arguing until people — of us who will be arguing until people are sick of hearing from us that they— people are sick of hearing from us that they must be brought from that third country to take up the positions that are ready and waiting for them _ positions that are ready and waiting for them in — positions that are ready and waiting for them in leading british universities. this is in the long tradition— universities. this is in the long tradition of— universities. this is in the long tradition of saving intellectuals from _ tradition of saving intellectuals from totalitarian and barbarism and we have _ from totalitarian and barbarism and we have an — from totalitarian and barbarism and we have an important flame to pass on to— we have an important flame to pass on to future — we have an important flame to pass on to future generations. we do not want a _ on to future generations. we do not want a film — on to future generations. we do not want a film being made in the future about— want a film being made in the future about how— want a film being made in the future about how there was no shindler's are core _ about how there was no shindler's are core shindler's list to save these — are core shindler's list to save these very— are core shindler's list to save these very talented and gifted people — these very talented and gifted people who represent the best aspects — people who represent the best aspects of afghanistan. we people who represent the best aspects of afghanistan. we will keep an e e on aspects of afghanistan. we will keep an eye on that _ aspects of afghanistan. we will keep an eye on that situation, _ an eye on that situation, absolutely. thank you for talking to us about that, julian lewis, working with the council for at—risk
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academics to try to get that group of people out of kabul, out of afghanistan. the headlines on bbc news: as the evacuation deadline draws nearer, several european countries have either finished flights or plan to in the next few hours. warnings of an imminent and lethal terror attack on kabul airport — with thousands of desperate afghans still waiting there for a flight out of their country. the covid vaccine rollout could be extended next month to children aged 12 to 15 — nhs trusts in england have been told to prepare the covid vaccine roll—out could be extended next month to children between the ages of 12 and 15. nhs trusts have been told to prepare for a possible extension of the vaccine programme. thejoint committee on vaccination and immunisation is still weighing up the arguments for and against such a move. it comes amid concerns that big summer events such as music festivals — and the return of schools —
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will lead to a surge in covid infections. here's our health correspondent sophie hutchinson. some of the tens of thousands arriving for this bank holiday weekend's reading festival. for many this is the first live music event they've been able to enjoy since the pandemic. we're feeling pretty safe and this is my third time here so i love reading. yeah, this is my second time. we always come here. we love it. we're just so glad to be back. we love being back here. i've had to keep postponing my first jab because i've been working - so much and i've got quite| an intense job, just in case i get the side effects. so unfortunately i'm not going to be protected from it for this _ | but i have done a negative test| yesterday, i will do another one today, so i'm hoping it will be ok. but already this summer large events have prompted concerns. the boardmasters music and surfing festival in cornwall is thought to be responsible for a spike of more than a500 covid cases.
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perfect, thank you very much. back at reading, public health officials say they've done their best to make the site safe. we have put a lot of criteria in place for people before they arrive. people need to be tested, they need to show they've been double vaccinated, and if they go off—site they will need to be tested again, and i already know that the 20,000 who have already arrived for camping we have already checked and these restrictions are being put in place and people are complying. over the last few months, uk infections have started to rise again as some schools return. the government's scientific advisers are considering whether to extend vaccinations for 12—15 year—olds to try to keep rates down. but some scientists are confident rising infections will not cause a crisis. we have to come as a society, recognise cases will rise, but actually the transfer into deaths from covid is so much less, so we have to be
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able to accept that. the evidence suggests that we can generally run large events without producing super spreader issues. and in order to try to protect those beyond the festival gates, the government says there will be a boosterjab in september for the most vulnerable. sophie hutchinson, bbc news. linda bauld is a professor of public health at the university of edinburgh. good to have you with us, thank you very much forjoining us on bbc news today. the gc vi, thejoint committee on vaccination and immunisation, has made no recommendation orfinal immunisation, has made no recommendation or final decision yet, but give us a sense of what they will be considering in that decision—making process for 12—15 —year—olds? decision-making process for 12-15 -year-olds?_ decision-making process for 12-15 -year-olds? good afternoon. they will be going _ -year-olds? good afternoon. they will be going back _ -year-olds? good afternoon. they will be going back first _ -year-olds? good afternoon. they will be going back first of- -year-olds? good afternoon. they will be going back first of all- -year-olds? good afternoon. they will be going back first of all to - will be going back first of all to the original trial that pfizer produced in the us of several thousand young people between the ages of 12 and 17 who volunteered to
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take part in the trial and that showed that the vaccine was safe and effective for that age group and there were no real concerns, similar levels of safety and effectiveness to people, for example, in their early 20s. they will look again at that trial, any follow—up data from the participants, they will then be looking at reports from the millions of teenagers, 12— 15 euros two have been vaccinated already in countries like canada, the us and israel and see if there are any safety signals there that they are concerned about, including from very rare events like myocarditis and other rare heart conditions that may be linked to these vaccines, so those real—world data are accumulating all the time and that is whyjcvi seems to be taking more time to consider what the decision is, but as case rates rise in the uk, the balance of risk between tiny risks from adverse events and benefits of the vaccine may take towards vaccinating 12—15 —year—olds. i may take towards vaccinating 12-15 -year-olds-—
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-year-olds. i look about that point in a moment. _ -year-olds. i look about that point in a moment, but— -year-olds. i look about that point in a moment, but what _ -year-olds. i look about that point in a moment, but what can - -year-olds. i look about that point in a moment, but what can you - -year-olds. i look about that point l in a moment, but what can you tells about countries, information from countries where they have already been vaccinating this age group including about that condition, myocarditis, which you mentioned? well, it is actually pretty reassuring. it is like the rare blood clots that we saw with 0xford astrazeneca. the are very rare adverse events are for whatever reason they seem to occur, slightly more likely in males, and other links heart conditions in younger people, so there are case reports but, as i say, they are very small numbers. the israelis released something yesterday were comparative data overall showing that overall the risks of myocarditis and these heart conditions are greater if you develop covert, they are not zero, so they will be very closely looking at this and there are those small risks and if the jcvi at this and there are those small risks and if thejcvi changes its advice, we need to get reassurance on good information to parents and young people about these very small
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but present risks. fin young people about these very small but present risks.— but present risks. on the bounce of risk, we did — but present risks. on the bounce of risk. we did an _ but present risks. on the bounce of risk, we did an interview— but present risks. on the bounce of risk, we did an interview with - risk, we did an interview with professor russell viner, paediatrician, earlier, and he said the benefit of the vaccine to young people is actually very low. he said we would be vaccinating them to protect other members of society, therefore the safety bar has be extremely high. would you broadly agree with that or not?— extremely high. would you broadly agree with that or not? russell and also his colleagues _ agree with that or not? russell and also his colleagues at _ agree with that or not? russell and also his colleagues at the _ agree with that or not? russell and also his colleagues at the royal - also his colleagues at the royal couege also his colleagues at the royal college of paediatrics and child health have been considering this very carefully. he is broadly right that the benefit is primarily to other people, but the risks from covid—19 are not zero for young people. they are higherfor vulnerable teenagers who are already eligible for vaccination for the roll—out is not going terribly brilliant, as i understand it at the time, but there is also things like long covid, etc. the third point is more policy related which is that in the education setting with teachers, staff and schools, the unions etc, they all want to reduce the risk as
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much as possible, not only to young people but of transmission and thinking about vulnerable teachers, so there are lots of things at play here. it is a very complex issue. many factors to consider and that brings me onto the fact that some children are already back in school, all the other pupils will be back very soon, in the next week or so, what's more would you like to see schools doing or being made mandatory for schools to do as pupils return? there have been discussions around the use of filters for classrooms, mask wearing, all of those, what would you urge pupils and schools to do? we really need mitigations in this setting. schools are all back in scotland and schools are contributing to our rising case numbers, as we expected. ventilation is near the top of my list, so those c0 monitors need to be used, thinking about using the full estate, having spacing in distancing where possible and in scotland, we are still requiring face coverings in secondary schools, so there is
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much more than can be done to minimise the risk while importantly making sure that children and young people are in school getting the face—to—face teaching that they need. face-to-face teaching that they need. ., , , ., face-to-face teaching that they need. ., ., ,, , . need. professor, thank you very much for our need. professor, thank you very much for your expertise _ need. professor, thank you very much for your expertise today. _ a coroner has concluded that a bbc radio newcastle presenter died from complications of the astrazeneca covid vaccine. lisa shaw, who was 44, died in may, three weeks after being given herfirst dose. the coroner said it was "clearly established" that her death was due to a very rare "vaccine—induced" condition which causes swelling and bleeding of the brain. new figures have underlined the growing pressure on the nhs in northern ireland. more than half of patients needing an initial appointment with a consultant have been waiting for more than a year. there are also long waiting lists for people needing other forms of treatment. i'm joined now by dr frances o'hagan, the deputy chair of the bma in northern ireland. thank you very much for your time
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today. so, where is the real pressure in the system at the moment? 0n the face of it, it looks like it is in hospitals, waiting to get appointments with consultants and so on, but presumably that places considerable pressure on primary care as well and you are a gp, aren't you? primary care as well and you are a gp. aren't you?— gp, aren't you? yes, i am a gp in the southern — gp, aren't you? yes, i am a gp in the southern part _ gp, aren't you? yes, i am a gp in the southern part of— gp, aren't you? yes, i am a gp in the southern part of the - gp, aren't you? yes, i am a gp inj the southern part of the province, so there is pressure right across the system and this is not new. it was here before covid but it has been exacerbated by covid. we have huge numbers of vacancies in our hospitals, in our consultant staff, in our nursing staff and very low numbers of general practitioners across northern ireland per head of population. that has been a real problem and we need to address that so that we can look at this problem. we also have a problem in that we have relatively high numbers of hospitals per head of population, so that means more staff are needed to
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run the rotors in the hospitals. we have had a review in the past and our most recent one done by benbow which has said that our waiting list problem needs to be tackled in different way and we need to take that and follow the advice that has been given to a so clearly to reverse this pattern.- been given to a so clearly to reverse this pattern. from what ou're reverse this pattern. from what you're saying. _ reverse this pattern. from what you're saying. it _ reverse this pattern. from what you're saying, it sounds - reverse this pattern. from what you're saying, it sounds like - reverse this pattern. from whatj you're saying, it sounds like the issueis you're saying, it sounds like the issue is really structural and systemic in terms of the setup of the health service, the recruitment of staff. we reported the other day about a new medical school opening in northern ireland, but it will be a good number of years for qualified doctors emerge from that, but what more can be done in the meantime and what would you like to see the devolved government at stormont doing that it is not currently doing? doing that it is not currently doinu ? ., , ., . ., doing? the opening of the medical school was a _ doing? the opening of the medical school was a very _ doing? the opening of the medical school was a very welcome - school was a very welcome initiative, a few years late but
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better late than never and as you say, that will take time to translate into bricks on the wards and people in the ground, but it is and people in the ground, but it is a good start. not only do we need to train more but we also need to continue to keep people in the service. we have people haemorrhaging out of the service for a variety of reasons. lots of nursing staff are going abroad for better terms and we also have the issue of the pensions and the government could change that overnight. it is driving senior staff, especially senior doctors, out of the hospitals and out of general practice because it is unsustainable to continue to work because of the draconian pension arrangements. the government could change that overnight and we could retain experienced staff in our hospitals and general practice. let's look at bit more at the figures that we are focusing on today. these are for april to june
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this year. more than today. these are for april tojune this year. more than 348,000 people waiting for a first consultants led appointments, an increase of almost 39,000 compared to the same time last year. that will not be a huge surprise that those figures are going up due to be covid backlog and so on, but for inpatient and day case admissions which are also bad, people are waiting longer than the target of 13 weeks for that sort of appointment or admission. target of 13 weeks for that sort of appointment oradmission. i target of 13 weeks for that sort of appointment or admission. ijust appointment or admission. i just wonder, appointment or admission. ijust wonder, how worried are you about the potential outcomes here? because if people are waiting that long to get these appointments, conditions could be going undiagnosed, presumably. could be going undiagnosed, presumably-— could be going undiagnosed, resumabl. . , �* presumably. absolutely, you're absolutely _ presumably. absolutely, you're absolutely right. _ presumably. absolutely, you're absolutely right. and _ presumably. absolutely, you're absolutely right. and that - presumably. absolutely, you're absolutely right. and that has l absolutely right. and that has definitely been exacerbated by covid because we had people who have been hesitant to come forward with conditions and we have been in primary care inviting people to come forward with worrying conditions but lots of people say, i will be so long on the waiting list and you just have that concern that those
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patients will get worse and we know, we see are patients coming to us everyday in severe pain, waiting on operations and the figures that we measure, those are just the things we measure. there is not only the patients who are waiting for a first—time appointments, but all those patients who have been saying and are now may be waiting on diagnostics are waiting to be seen after they have had their x—rays scans and get a treatment plan put in place. scans and get a treatment plan put in lace. ., ' . , ., ., in place. how difficult is that for ou as a in place. how difficult is that for you as a gp? — in place. how difficult is that for you as a gp? you _ in place. how difficult is that for you as a gp? you know- in place. how difficult is that for you as a gp? you know that - in place. how difficult is that for| you as a gp? you know that your patient actually needs to be seen. the next step in the process, needs to be seen by a consultant, but because they cannot do that, they come back to you again and again and you're trying to manage that condition and you don't know exactly when they are going to get that next appointment that they need? that must be incredibly pressured for you as a gp. , ., ., ., as a gp. yes, all of general practice _ as a gp. yes, all of general practice is _ as a gp. yes, all of general practice is finding - as a gp. yes, all of general practice is finding that. - as a gp. yes, all of general practice is finding that. it i as a gp. yes, all of generalj practice is finding that. it is incredibly difficult and we are trying to manage these patients as best we can. we are trying to put
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initiatives in place that we can see if we can do anything to help get patients advice and sooner we will set up initiatives where we have what we call ccg advice lines where we can write to consultants and they can write back to us with advice while patients are waiting. in our area, we have a paediatric help with consultants visiting the surgery once a month and that has reduced our referral to hospital because we can deal with patients there and then. so we are trying to do as much as we can, that still doesn't stop the number of people who are currently sitting on waiting lists and haven't even got onto waiting lists yet. those patients are genuinely suffering and they are coming back to us day after day and it is putting a huge amount of pressure on general practice. doctor francis o'hagan. — pressure on general practice. doctor francis o'hagan, thank _ pressure on general practice. doctor francis o'hagan, thank you - pressure on general practice. doctor francis o'hagan, thank you very - pressure on general practice. doctor. francis o'hagan, thank you very much for your time today. now it's time for a look at the weather with stav. hello there. it's been quite warm recently, particularly across western scotland
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where we saw the high 20s yesterday in the highlands, but not as warm today and for the next few days because we've had this weak cold front spreading south across the uk, introducing more cloud and some fresher air. we'll hold onto that cloud across many places as we head through tonight apart from western extremities, parts of wales, south—west england, northern ireland and western scotland. it's here where we'll see a few chilly spots overnight. otherwise, for most, just holding into double figures. for friday, then, again it's a similar story — variable cloud, most of that through central, northern and eastern areas. glimmers of sunshine developing here and there. the best of it will be across northern and western areas. and the winds light for most, but quite fresh again across north sea coasts, so here it will be quite cool, particularly right on the coast, 15—19 celsius. further north and west for the sunshine and the low 20s. the bank holiday weekend, then — where high pressure holds on, it'll bring a lot of dry weather with variable cloud and some sunny spells.
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hello this is bbc news with annita mcveigh. the headlines: as the evacuation deadline draws nearer, several european countries have either finished flights or plan to in the next few hours. warnings of an imminent and lethal terror attack on kabul airport, with thousands of desperate afghans still waiting there for a flight out of their country. the covid vaccine rollout could be extended next month to children aged 12 to 15. nhs trusts in england have been told to prepare. the nhs waiting list crisis in northern ireland — most patients who need a first appointment with a consultant have to wait more than a year. a golden day in tokyo for paralympics gb — a haul of five gold medals on day two of the games.
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sport now, and for a full round up, from the bbc sport centre, here's austin halewood. good afternoon. well, it's been a golden second day of the paralympics for the brits in tokyo. they've shot up the medals table with five more golds — two of them came within the space of 20 minutes in the pool. maisie summers—newton set a new world best time to win the sm6 200 meters individual medley, atjust 19 years old. great britain's flagbearer for the opening ceremony, ellie simmonds — who was going for a third consecutive gold in the same race — could only manage fifth. while tulley kearney made up for the disappointment of her narrow defeat in the 55 200m freestyle on wednesday, with victory in the 100m freestyle event in a world record time. former soldierjaco van gass, who was injured while serving in afghanistan in 2009, beat team—mate fin graham in the final of the c3
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3,000m individual pursuit, para—equestrian rider lee pearson won his 12th paralympic title. after making his debut at sydney 2000, he claimed victory in the grade ii individual test with team—mate georgia wilson third. and wheelchair fencer piers gilliver, a silver medallist in rio, went one better this time in the epee a final. well, families will have been celebrating gold medals across the country. and back home in northampton, maisie summers—newton's was no exception. a bit unreal at the moment, but yeah, just absolutely amazing. it was just unbelievable. wasn't expecting it at all. just so exciting and we kind of know how she swims the race so only brush stroke like we knew she was going to come forward, but we weren't really expecting it to sort of be that sort of amazing really.— of amazing really. great scenes
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there. now to cricket, and england are batting their way into a commanding position on the second day of their third test against india at headingley. england resumed with an overnight lead of 42 and they've kept piling on the runs ever since. they have lost both openers — rory burns and haseeb hameed — but dawid malan and captainjoe root have steadied the ship. they're currently 239—2 — that's already a lead of 161. meanwhile, the former england captain and chairman of selectors ted dexter has died at the age of 86. nicknamed lord ted, dexter played 62 tests for england and was captain in the early 60s. he was renowned for the power with which he hit the ball. arguably this was his most famous innings against the west indies at lord's in 1963 when he came in at none for one and smashed 70 off 73 deliveries. he was later named president of the marylbone cricket club and was awarded a cbe in 2001. that's ted dexter, who's
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died at the age of 86. pep guardiola says he'll be leaving manchester city when his contract expires in 2023. he'll then take some time off before looking for a job with a national side. the former barcelona and bayern munich coach has won 10 trophies in his time at city, including three premier league titles. and after missing out on the european championship, trent alexander arnold — who's recovered from injury — and jesse lingard are both back in the england squad for next month's world cup qualifiers. gareth southgate has just named his squad and there's also a first call—up for leeds striker patrick bamford, who scored 17 goals last season. england will face hungary, andorra and poland in early september as the road to qatar 2022 begins. that will be here before you know it. but all your support for now.
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——that�*s all the sport for now. )let�*s return to the situation in afghanistan where there are warnings of a significant security threat at kabul airport. we can speak now to masoud mandarabi, the former interior minister of afghanistan. i wonder as you watch those images unfolding at kabul airport, and we have been watching them for quite a few days, there is gas as people try to get on a flight out of afghanistan, what are your thoughts and feelings? apologies, we clearly can't hear... i think we have... i do apologise. i am going to ask that question again because we lost at the sound as he started to speak to us. i was asking what are your
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thoughts and feelings were about the images of that we have seen around kabul airport in the last weeks. that is an obvious failure of any plan of evacuations of the afghans who work with the uk or us in the last four years. everyone, was at a least expecting that the taliban are advancing in the last two or three months, predictions were that the taliban will be able to get kabul and sometime in september or end of august so all of a sudden, whether the collapse of a kabul, certainly this was not possible to bring everyone out. the wait is going on, but i think the planning should have been done six months ago because mostly reports and indications where they are and even there was an estimation, intelligence estimation that the government will not continue for six months. i think this is very disappointing that the planners of this have failed at this level and now put themselves in
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people at risk at the airport. you were dismissed _ people at risk at the airport. you were dismissed in march of this year by ashraf ghani who was not happy with the security situation following a spate of taliban attacks at the time. do you, when you speak of failings, to include yourself in that? i think everyone had a plan. i mean, talk particularly about the evacuation plan failure, but certainly what is going on in afghanistan, there is a role for everyone to play and president ghani remove me because i was opposing his way of governance after the us withdrawal plans and taliban peace that was not going very fast so i think i will not say i am a fairly clean, yes, everyone had to be blamed for this, but i think i have had very good reasons for their time which, unfortunately, instead of the president listening to it or his national security adviser or his first vice president, dismissed me
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without any consultations with anyone. were you surprised how the government seem to melt away, dissolve as the taliban approached kabul question might dig expected to be that easy for it held and questioned mike i think nobody predicted that.— questioned mike i think nobody predicted that. they wake kabul colla sed predicted that. they wake kabul collapsed in _ predicted that. they wake kabul collapsed in eight _ predicted that. they wake kabul collapsed in eight hours, - predicted that. they wake kabul collapsed in eight hours, that i collapsed in eight hours, that nobody was predicting that that morning. that failure goes at early president and his national security adviser who did not have any cabinet security meeting, rather the morning meeting which he is chief and chief of staff was present. there was no talk about the president is keeping the country and then in the afternoon he just slide without even telling his security or security cabinet members are so —— hejust fled. so that has to be blaming the president, 100%. way we got here,
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that has a wider list of international and national politicians and decision makers to be lamed. ~ ., ., i. politicians and decision makers to be lamed. ~ ., ., ,, ~' politicians and decision makers to be lamed. ~ ., ., i. ~ ., ,, be lamed. what do you think, taking into account — be lamed. what do you think, taking into account everything _ be lamed. what do you think, taking into account everything that - into account everything that spokesman said so far —— decision makers to be blamed. do you believe the taliban when they say they are going to offer more opportunity for women, for example? i going to offer more opportunity for women, for example?— going to offer more opportunity for women, for example? i think before we ask these — women, for example? i think before we ask these questions _ women, for example? i think before we ask these questions from - women, for example? i think before we ask these questions from the - we ask these questions from the taliban, orfancy we ask these questions from the taliban, or fancy statements that they are making, the route questions are is what the taliban's relationship today with al-qaeda? what is their relationship today with taliban radicals that believe in an islamic emirate and its expansion in the world? what are their actions are recapturing thousands of daesh militants who flee? we had —— that has to be made very clear. taliban are not the doha members nor the people who are
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coming to meet. —— the media and everything. there are thousands and thousands of islamic militants, international terrorist organisations, including daesh at large. what steps any time and taking against them question mark if they do not make that clear, they cannot fulfil, i think any of the promises they are talking an right now. do promises they are talking an right now. y ., promises they are talking an right now. ,, . promises they are talking an right now. ., ., , promises they are talking an right now. i. ., ., , ., promises they are talking an right now. . ., , ., ., now. do you have any intention of returnin: now. do you have any intention of returning to _ now. do you have any intention of returning to afghanistan? - now. do you have any intention of returning to afghanistan? you - now. do you have any intention of| returning to afghanistan? you had any united states now. surely afghanistan needs people like you, moderate politicians in the present circumstances? i moderate politicians in the present circumstances?— area are a lot of people who are resisting to a cause that we are sure that once the taliban agreed that because, certainly we can return to kabul. if not, there would be me and thousands of others who will go to the resistance to make sure they tell are fulfilling the people's tree demands, the tree demands of the afghan people. the
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former afghan interior minister, thank you very much time delay —— the tree demands of the afghan people. two conservative mps have written to borisjohnson, urging him not to remove extra universal credit payments this autumn. the mps say the £20 a week increase, originally brought in because of the pandemic, should be made permanent. they say taking it away would jeopardise the government's levelling up agenda. nick eardley reports. the number of people on universal credit has double during the pandemic. and since last march, they have been getting an extra £20 a week, a temporary measure to help people through the pandemic. but that's due to come to an end in october. for people like anthony, losing £80 a month could have a significant impact. once i pay the bills, i'll be left with probably about £60—£70 for the month. and that has got to do me a month's shopping. no chance.
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charities warn he's not the only one and that many people could end up in debt. 5.9 million people are currently on universal credit. our calculations suggest that of those, 2.3 million people are going to be pushed into the red as a consequence of this. it is coming at a really difficult time for people, where energy prices are soaring, the furlough scheme is coming to an end. similar arguments are being made to the treasury. opposition parties support keeping the extra money and a growing number of prominent conservatives agree. today the prime minister was warned removing the uplift could undermine his levelling up programme. with food prices going up - with energy prices and electricity costs going up, i really do fear that if we cut this money now, j it is going to place an awful lot of people with some serious i challenges in the winter months. many of those on universal credit are in work but the prime minister says his focus is on better paid
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jobs. my strong preference is for people to see their wages rise through their efforts, rather than through taxation of other people put into their pay packets and rather than welfare, and that is the approach we support. ministers want to bring spending down and that means some of the emergency interventions during the pandemic will come to an end. and at the moment, there is little sign of a rethink on universal credit, but when parliament returns next month, there is likely to be significant pressure and much of that will be coming from borisjohnson's own mps. the political debate over the post—pandemic recovery and government spending will continue. nick earley, bbc news, westminster. news just newsjust coming into is news just coming into is from newsjust coming into is from kabul. correspondent in the city is saying there are reports of a blast near
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there are reports of a blast near the airport. this can come of course, as western governments have been warning of a threat of an attack, an imminent threat of attack from so—called islamic state. this is just coming through from so—called islamic state. this isjust coming through in from so—called islamic state. this is just coming through in the last for seconds. is just coming through in the last forseconds. i is just coming through in the last for seconds. i am also seeing the reuters news agency quoting the pentagon press secretary confirming an explosion outside kabul airport. the pentagon press secretary, according to the reuters news agency confirming an explosion outside kabul airport. confirming an explosion outside kabulairport. 0ur confirming an explosion outside kabul airport. 0ur correspondent, sikander, ni, you can see his to eat there on your screens saying, yes, —— secunder kermani's tweet. details still emerging, the situation there of course has been chaotic at times with people desperate to get
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on flights. we had heard warnings that only those with the correct paperwork should attempt now to be anywhere near the airport and for other people, if they could, we heard ben wallace the defence secretary saying last night, he told mps last night that anyone who had not already made their way to the airport to consider trying to leave afghanistan via a land border crossing. but as he was reporting a little earlier, it was unclear whether people had heard of these sorts of warnings and many seemed to be trying to get to the airport. let's look at that tweet now from the pentagon. john kirby, the press secretary for the pentagon saying... it was very clear in the last year
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so that the security situation at the airport was becoming more and more critical. i spoke to the former head of the british army in afghanistan yesterday and he was saying it certainly was entering its riskiest phase, the operation at the airport, with a number of nations saying they have now finished their evacuation flights or are about to finish their evacuation flights i had of that august 31 deadline. you may remember, a couple of nights ago when president biden gave that a news conference confirming that the us plan was to pull out of kabul airport by the 31st august deadline, one of the reasons he cited for that was the threat of an attack by militants, by extremists. as a just to recap, everything we have been learning in the last couple of moments, the pentagon press secretary, i wonder if we can just pull up that tweet again. john
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kirby, pentagon press secretary confirming an explosion outside kabul airport. the casualties are unclear at this time. we will provide additional details once we can. he says our correspondent secunder kermani, who is in kabul, saying on his twitter account, reports of a blast near kabul airport. there are reports confirmed by the pentagon. western intelligence services, he reminds us, had been warning of a threat of an is suicide bombing there but we do not have enough detail of exactly what has happened and the nature of this explosion. this i think we can show you secunder kermani's tweet now. i'm checking for you, as we speak, to see if there are any details coming in from any other sources, any other reliable sources. about what is going on at the
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airport or what has happened. a large explosion is being reported. this comes as, as i was mentioning a moment ago, some countries had said they had finished their operations are a bit about to finish their operations at the airport. clearly a lot of concern that they would not be able to prevent an attack, especially with in and around the airport perimeter. we are waiting to find out some more details on what has happened at the airport. 0ne find out some more details on what has happened at the airport. one of the guests i spoke to earlier today from the counter extremism project, i asked him whether the taliban would have any particular interest in trying to police the situation or prevent something like this happening. he said that they would
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not. that was not part of their plan at the moment. but credible risk of at the moment. but credible risk of a terrorist attack at a couple airport, that we have been told about by the uk government, among others, unfortunately, itappears about by the uk government, among others, unfortunately, it appears to have been made real but we do not have been made real but we do not have exact confirmation of the nature of the event, although the us pentagon press secretary confirming explosion. the huge fear as this is a suicide attack or some other sort of attack by so—called islamic state. this group isis k, this afghan offshoot of ice as we are been hearing about. we canjoin our colleagues on bbc world now for an interview with the afghan journalist.—
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interview with the afghan “ournalist. , ., , ., journalist. this was at their preferred _ journalist. this was at their preferred complex - journalist. this was at their preferred complex attack i journalist. this was at their i preferred complex attack but journalist. this was at their - preferred complex attack but now journalist. this was at their _ preferred complex attack but now the islamic state is seen as an important threat. these are people who are seeing, feeling for their lives and it is airport has now become a deadly front line, whether you talk about this massive bomb or you talk about this massive bomb or you talk about gunfire and stampedes. and this is now a tragedy for afghan families will stop we still do not have a lot of information. i was in touch with a lot of my friends and family and now i can't reach them built itjust shows you afghanistan continues to bleed on the road ahead for afghans is one of tragedy.— is one of tragedy. indeed. i think it ou is one of tragedy. indeed. i think it you have _ is one of tragedy. indeed. i think it you have just _ is one of tragedy. indeed. i think it you have just summed - is one of tragedy. indeed. i think it you have just summed it - is one of tragedy. indeed. i think it you have just summed it up. itj is one of tragedy. indeed. i think. it you have just summed it up. it is the tragedy of afghanistan. there's airport has become the focal point of people, falling out of planes and
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now ten days after the fall of kabul. i want to welcome of yours from the uk and our world view as possible let's just recap what has happened. we understand from the pentagon secretary who has tweeted that we can confirm that an explosion outside of kabul airport has taken place, casualties are unclear at this time. we will provide additional details when we can. let's go straight to our journalist bilal sarwari who has just left the country. you have seen thousands of people turning up with the documents, not with documents, and then we got this warning in the last 24 hours from western intelligence agencies about a potential terrorist attack pinned to the so—called islamic state and now this. i was incredibly lucky along with 150 afghans, mostly from the media and civil society. the with 150 afghans, mostly from the
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media and civil society.— media and civil society. the artist were also with _ media and civil society. the artist were also with us _ media and civil society. the artist were also with us when _ media and civil society. the artist were also with us when we - media and civil society. the artist were also with us when we were i were also with us when we were excluded by the qatari ambassador in kabul to buses —— escorted. although we were safe in many ways, this was one of the threats looming over the airport because it is still an area where thousands of afghans have been waiting. and at these artificial deadlines and timelines have really scared afghans who have been fearing for their lives. scared afghans who have been fearing fortheir lives. it scared afghans who have been fearing for their lives. it is a sending shock waves so most afghans tried to leave and wait for days outside of the airport with their newly born babies, with their elderly parents, but a lot more are still in hiding fearing for their lives. in kabul and outside of kabul. and after all this is an evacuation at the 11th hour. it sums up the failure, the collective failure of billions of dollars invested, the sacrifices that these countries have made and this is at the end result. and this
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is the sign of a tragedy which has really broken the hearts of millions of people around the world. with that attack today, i also know that a lot of families are in pain and agony because they do not —— cannot reach theirfamily agony because they do not —— cannot reach their family members and do not know what may or may not have happened. this has been one of the deadly features of the last 20 years but every single place has tragically become a front line in afghanistan. tragically become a front line in afghanistan-— tragically become a front line in aft hanistan. , . ,., ., , afghanistan. very much so. i was s-ueakin afghanistan. very much so. i was speaking to _ afghanistan. very much so. i was speaking to friends, _ afghanistan. very much so. i was speaking to friends, colleagues, l speaking to friends, colleagues, people i know who were in buses struggling to get inside today. they said they had been waiting since eight o'clock in the morning. some are waiting for over a week. and now this. as you say, we are not quite sure what to be casualties are. there is still information coming in. and there will be dozens of children, women, men, the elderly, the disabled, all of these images we have seen over the last week or so
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and now this, sort of, as you say, it sums up the tragedy of afghanistan.— it sums up the tragedy of afghanistan. it sums up the tragedy of aft hanistan. ~ ., it sums up the tragedy of aft hanistan. ~ . ., afghanistan. what we -- we will have to really wait — afghanistan. what we -- we will have to really wait and _ afghanistan. what we -- we will have to really wait and see _ afghanistan. what we -- we will have to really wait and see what _ afghanistan. what we -- we will have to really wait and see what measures| to really wait and see what measures were put in place by the taliban in terms of security. after all, there is no more straddle government. the response ability is to provide security. we did see quite cruel scenes where —— shadow government. we saw taliban soldiers fighting in —— firing into the air to disperse crowds and then also beating them, including women and children. and then saying they will stop this evacuation in a short time of the taliban saying that people are not allowed to leave is contributing to allowed to leave is contributing to a mass fear for afghans, allowed to leave is contributing to a mass fearfor afghans, fearfor their lives and family members. after 20 years, the fact that western countries who have been in negotiations with the taliban for years could not secure a safe
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evacuation. at one that was not bound by timelines and deadlines, but by the need to basically get everyone at safe tells you where the problem is. iwas everyone at safe tells you where the problem is. i was speaking if few hours ago to afghan special forces who were kicked out, according to them, from one of those buildings. they complained saying they have been fighting already is on the battlefield with british and american special forces and we deserve protection. 0ne american special forces and we deserve protection. one of them told me that he will now be hunted by the taliban. so this is very much about a suicidal trip, a suicidal stop, i want to call it, the afghan airport because people have got no choice but to take all of these risks, you know, trying to save their lives. yes. thank you very much bilalfor joining us. and thank you for all the work you have done in afghanistan over the years.
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i'm joined now by our correspondence in kabul. worrying developments. you know people who are heading to the airport, i know people who are heading to the airport to get out and this was talked about by western intelligence agencies in the last 24—hour sands now this. intelligence agencies in the last 24-hour sands now this.- 24-hour sands now this. yes, absolutely- — 24-hour sands now this. yes, absolutely. we _ 24-hour sands now this. yes, absolutely. we are _ 24-hour sands now this. yes, absolutely. we are trying - 24-hour sands now this. yes, absolutely. we are trying to i 24—hour sands now this. use: absolutely. we are trying to make contact with a number of people we have been in touch with in and around the airport to check if they are safe and find out more details. at the moment, they have not come yet, but what we are being told is that a suicide bomber blew himself up that a suicide bomber blew himself up close to the abbey gate entrance to the airport. that is an entrance where there is a presence of british soldiers and american soldiers. i have been there and filmed there on a number of occasions. the are large clouds kick crowds of ordinary afghans trying to get through, many without the correct documents, so thousands of people there as long
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with people with the correct documentation who were further along, closer to the gate. we are not clear exactly where this explosion happened, but we are getting reports of ongoing gunfire. this is a fluid situation, very much what everyone was afraid of happening. as you say, a number of western security agencies had warned of the possibility of a suicide attack, saying it was imminent and that it was just a number of hours away potentially. that message not really filtering through to use people in such a state of confusion and desperation at the airport and now we have had this blast. find now we have had this blast. and casualties _ now we have had this blast. and casualties remain _ now we have had this blast. and casualties remain unclear. we are still waiting for that information to come through, but bilal was just saying, one of the things we need to look at is the security that was provided at the airport, just help our viewers understand that road to the airport, the number of checkpoints, who held the security of the airport and how this could have slipped through. frankly, there
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is so much chaos at that airport that so much has happened there, but help us understand the make—up of the airport. it’s help us understand the make-up of the airport-— the airport. it's confusing because there is a number— the airport. it's confusing because there is a number of— the airport. it's confusing because there is a number of different - the airport. it's confusing because i there is a number of different gates and there are multiple different forces in charge of different parts of the areas around the airport, so you have the taliban, you have american and british forces as well as nato nations at some of the gates right by the entrances, really, and you also have units of afghan army forces that are yet to surrender, that are kind of working alongside american forces, so you have multiple different forces in charge of different parts, sometimes quite close to each other, and we have seen lots of reports of taliban checkpoints leading up to the airport. i have to say, in all the tricks i have done to the airport, i have only seen... in fact, i do not think i have seen an active taliban
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checkpoints, as one would describe it, where people are being searched diplomatically and being asked who they are and where they are going and what the recommendation is. i have heard colleagues talk about it, but all the approaches to the airport i have taken, there has not been that. we have seen taliban forces at times, but not checking and stopping people, certainly not on a regular basis, so this was a soft target. if someone wanted to carry out an awful suicide bombing, one can hardly fathom the rationale orjustification one can hardly fathom the rationale or justification for one can hardly fathom the rationale orjustification for it, given that there are so many ordinary, desperate afghans there, but if someone wanted to do it, it would have been an easy target to strike. very much so, and notjust the people who have camped out there for days and days, bus—loads of people who have been promised some kind of safe passage, some kind of security by various different governments who are trying to evacuate their staff and their people, and just in the last few hours, we were told that people should stay away from the
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airport, but ultimately, i imagine the bulk of the casualties will be the bulk of the casualties will be the afghans themselves. absolutely and, the afghans themselves. absolutely and. tragically. _ the afghans themselves. absolutely and, tragically, that _ the afghans themselves. absolutely and, tragically, that seems - the afghans themselves. absolutely and, tragically, that seems always i and, tragically, that seems always to be the case. 0rdinary afghans paying the price for a conflict that they have no part in and have no desire to be involved in. the suspicion will be that this attack was carried out by the islamic state group. no claim of responsibility yet, but they have repeatedly carried out horrific, devastating attacks on the softest of targets. they have carried out attacks on wedding halls, hospital maternity units, on anything you can think of, they have attacks, and we have heard these repeated warnings that an attack was possible, was likely and was imminent and, unfortunately, that message would not have filtered down to the people on the ground and many of those people were too desperate to try to leave the country to have really given up their intention to try to get inside, just because of this threat,
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so those people will most likely have been the bulk of the casualties, though, as you say, as yet, we do not have figures. igaffe casualties, though, as you say, as yet, we do not have figures. we are caettin yet, we do not have figures. we are getting information _ yet, we do not have figures. we are getting information on _ yet, we do not have figures. we are getting information on that. - getting information on that. secunder, if you can say for a moment i will bring in frank gardner to bring us information about isis—k, who they are, what all this means. isis-k, who they are, what all this means. , ., , ., ., isis-k, who they are, what all this means. , . , ., ., ., means. this was a warning about the so-called isis-k, _ means. this was a warning about the so-called isis-k, otherwise - means. this was a warning about the so-called isis-k, otherwise known i means. this was a warning about the j so-called isis-k, otherwise known as so—called isis—k, otherwise known as our provincial — so—called isis—k, otherwise known as our provincial group that have carried — our provincial group that have carried out many attacks in kabul and as— carried out many attacks in kabul and as secunder was saying, they are absolutely— and as secunder was saying, they are absolutely ruthless in who they target~ — absolutely ruthless in who they target. they have gone into maternity wards of a hospital and shot dead — maternity wards of a hospital and shot dead pregnant women and babies. they have _ shot dead pregnant women and babies. they have targeted girls' schools. they have targeted girls' schools. they have — they have targeted girls' schools. they have absolutely no morality whatsoever and they are considered to be _ whatsoever and they are considered to be the _ whatsoever and they are considered to be the biggest security threat i’ilht to be the biggest security threat right now. they have not managed to
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recruit _ right now. they have not managed to recruit that _ right now. they have not managed to recruit that many militants from syria _ recruit that many militants from syria and — recruit that many militants from syria and iraq. they would like to, but it _ syria and iraq. they would like to, but it is _ syria and iraq. they would like to, but it is geographically quite difficult for them to do so, so they have _ difficult for them to do so, so they have recruited from disaffected taliban — have recruited from disaffected taliban in the past, taliban fighters _ taliban in the past, taliban fighters who do not consider that the taliban are extreme enough. they have also— the taliban are extreme enough. they have also recruited from pakistani taliban _ have also recruited from pakistani taliban and have been involved in the drugs — taliban and have been involved in the drugs trade. you taliban and have been involved in the drugs trade.— taliban and have been involved in the drugs trade. taliban and have been involved in the dru~s trade. ., ~ ., ., ,, the drugs trade. you know, frank, we were 'ust the drugs trade. you know, frank, we were just talking _ the drugs trade. you know, frank, we were just talking to _ the drugs trade. you know, frank, we were just talking to bilal _ the drugs trade. you know, frank, we were just talking to bilal who - the drugs trade. you know, frank, we were just talking to bilal who said - were just talking to bilal who said this latest explosion sums up the failures of this withdrawal over the last 20 years, the fact that an airport could not be secured. well, i think we airport could not be secured. well, | think we will— airport could not be secured. well, i think we will have _ airport could not be secured. well, i think we will have to _ airport could not be secured. well, i think we will have to wait - airport could not be secured. well, i think we will have to wait for- i think we will have to wait for e>
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fact it was done overnight, practically, well, withdrawing from ba l practically, well, withdrawing from bag ram _ practically, well, withdrawing from bag ram airport overnight, it simply pulled _ bag ram airport overnight, it simply pulled the _ bag ram airport overnight, it simply pulled the rug from underneath the fairly weak and unstable afghan national— fairly weak and unstable afghan national forces, fairly weak and unstable afghan nationalforces, so fairly weak and unstable afghan national forces, so they civilly surrendered all over the place. but the airlift— surrendered all over the place. but the airlift has been an incredible success — the airlift has been an incredible success. to have organised such a mass _ success. to have organised such a mass evacuation of people at short notice _ mass evacuation of people at short notice and — mass evacuation of people at short notice and in terrible conditions and working with the compliance of a force that _ and working with the compliance of a force that hasjust been fighting a 20 year— force that hasjust been fighting a 20 year insurgency, it is extraordinary that it has gone as well as— extraordinary that it has gone as well as it — extraordinary that it has gone as well as it has and i think you have to pay— well as it has and i think you have to pay some — well as it has and i think you have to pay some credit to the people who are risking _ to pay some credit to the people who are risking their lives down there on that— are risking their lives down there on that runway on both sides of the fence _ on that runway on both sides of the fence the — on that runway on both sides of the fence. the taliban, despite the reports — fence. the taliban, despite the reports of— fence. the taliban, despite the reports of obstructions and beatings, have been relatively compliant. they have allowed, as you put yourself _ compliant. they have allowed, as you put yourself this morning on the broadcast — put yourself this morning on the broadcast we both did, the brains of afghanistan society to stream out of their country. this is terrible optics — their country. this is terrible optics for— their country. this is terrible optics for the taliban, this does not look— optics for the taliban, this does not look good for them, and yet up until now. —
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not look good for them, and yet up until now, they have allowed it. very— until now, they have allowed it. very much— until now, they have allowed it. very much so. they have called on afghans not to leave the country and while the focus has been on kabul airport, there are other border crossings that are flooding with people and there must be concerns from intelligence agencies of the number of people who are just moving now, security threats, security concerns across the region. yes, afghanistan. _ concerns across the region. yes, afghanistan, unfortunately, - concerns across the region. yes, afghanistan, unfortunately, has suffered — afghanistan, unfortunately, has suffered a mass displacement of population ever since 1979, says the soviet— population ever since 1979, says the soviet invasion on christmas eve with millions displaced. pakistan has hosted a lot of these people, so any instability in afghanistan is going _ any instability in afghanistan is going to — any instability in afghanistan is going to play out into regional countries. turkey has said we do not want _ countries. turkey has said we do not want to— countries. turkey has said we do not want to be _ countries. turkey has said we do not want to be a — countries. turkey has said we do not want to be a transit area for them, they are _ want to be a transit area for them, they are trying to steal their border— they are trying to steal their border with iran. there are crossing points _ border with iran. there are crossing points for— border with iran. there are crossing points. for example, in the south—east of the country on the afghan— south—east of the country on the afghan - — south—east of the country on the afghan — pakistan border, there is a plan mooted by british government ministers _ plan mooted by british government ministers to try to set up regional
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hubs _ ministers to try to set up regional hubs so _ ministers to try to set up regional hubs so if— ministers to try to set up regional hubs so if people cannot get out by air, they— hubs so if people cannot get out by air, they can somehow make their way across— air, they can somehow make their way across the _ air, they can somehow make their way across the borders, but that is difficult — across the borders, but that is difficult and dangerous and expensive for them. those countries are not— expensive for them. those countries are not necessarily going to want them, _ are not necessarily going to want them, turkey have certainly said they do— them, turkey have certainly said they do not want them.- they do not want them. yes, absolutely. _ they do not want them. yes, absolutely, and _ they do not want them. yes, absolutely, and all— they do not want them. yes, absolutely, and all sorts - they do not want them. yes, absolutely, and all sorts of. absolutely, and all sorts of security concerns. just, frank, tell us what western intelligence agencies have been warning of in the last went four hours because they said something like this was imminent. said something like this was imminent-— said something like this was imminent. , . ., , imminent. they did, and it was met by enormous _ imminent. they did, and it was met by enormous scepticism _ imminent. they did, and it was met by enormous scepticism on - imminent. they did, and it was met by enormous scepticism on social. by enormous scepticism on social media _ by enormous scepticism on social media and — by enormous scepticism on social media and on phone—ins with so many people. _ media and on phone—ins with so many people, certainly here in britain, saying _ people, certainly here in britain, saying this — people, certainly here in britain, saying this isjust a cover—up, this is concocted — saying this isjust a cover—up, this is concocted and made up to try to cover— is concocted and made up to try to cover up— is concocted and made up to try to cover up the — is concocted and made up to try to cover up the fact they have messed up cover up the fact they have messed up the _ cover up the fact they have messed up the military withdrawal from afghanistan and the fact they cannot -et afghanistan and the fact they cannot get everybody out. sadly, it has been _ get everybody out. sadly, it has been proved that it has been real. i do not _ been proved that it has been real. i do not think— been proved that it has been real. i do not think i ever doubted it myself— do not think i ever doubted it myself because i know that isis—k or the islamic— myself because i know that isis—k or the islamic state have carried out so many — the islamic state have carried out so many devastating attacks in the past, _ so many devastating attacks in the past, so _ so many devastating attacks in the past, so the warning was from both
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the us, _ past, so the warning was from both the us, uk— past, so the warning was from both the us, uk and australian forces that there — the us, uk and australian forces that there was a suicide vest bearing _ that there was a suicide vest bearing bomber, at least one, at least _ bearing bomber, at least one, at least somewhere in the region of kabut— least somewhere in the region of kabul airport looking to target one of the _ kabul airport looking to target one of the crowded gates. the irony here is that— of the crowded gates. the irony here is that the _ of the crowded gates. the irony here is that the man in charge of security— is that the man in charge of security in kabul has a $5 million bounty— security in kabul has a $5 million bounty on— security in kabul has a $5 million bounty on his head from the us, or did during — bounty on his head from the us, or did during the insurgency, so in some _ did during the insurgency, so in some cases the porter has become the gamekeeper, the person involved in attacks— gamekeeper, the person involved in attacks all— gamekeeper, the person involved in attacks all over afghanistan is now in charge _ attacks all over afghanistan is now in charge of trying to stop attacks and it _ in charge of trying to stop attacks and it is— in charge of trying to stop attacks and it is hard to see that the taliban— and it is hard to see that the taliban would have anything to gain by allowing an attack like this. this— by allowing an attack like this. this must— by allowing an attack like this. this must be an embarrassment to them _ this must be an embarrassment to them because, while i'm sure they will blame — them because, while i'm sure they will blame foreign forces for it, the fact— will blame foreign forces for it, the fact is— will blame foreign forces for it, the fact is they need stability, they— the fact is they need stability, they want to establish their islamic emirate _ they want to establish their islamic emirate across the country, they do not need _ emirate across the country, they do not need things like this which was in the _ not need things like this which was in the drive — not need things like this which was in the drive away investment and lead to— in the drive away investment and lead to further outflows of people
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from the — lead to further outflows of people from the country.— lead to further outflows of people from the country. indeed. focus on whether they _ from the country. indeed. focus on whether they can _ from the country. indeed. focus on whether they can secure _ from the country. indeed. focus on whether they can secure the - from the country. indeed. focus on whether they can secure the city, i whether they can secure the city, the country, frank, thank you so much for your expertise and analysis. let's try to go tojohar now and speak to bilal. no, bilal is not there. let's go to something else,. the blast took place outside of kabul airport, it is not yet clear whether they have been casualties, but there has been reports of gunfire. the explosion has occurred at the abbey gate entrance, as secunder was saying, where british rates are based. it was one of three gates which were closed following warnings of a terrorist threat. let's go to bilal, joining us on the line now... no, he is not here. it's secunder there? no, i do not have anyone at the moment. let'sjust bring no, i do not have anyone at the moment. let's just bring you an update on what has actually happened. we can report that we can confirm an explosion outside kabul
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airport. the casualties are unclear at this time. we will obviously try to get as much information as possible as we go and we understand that this happens in the last hour or so. you are looking at life pictures there of kabul airport and there had been some warnings that had been given by western intelligence agencies and the ministry of defence has put out a press release just now and have said, we are working urgently to establish what has happened in kabul and its impact on the ongoing evacuation effort. 0ur and its impact on the ongoing evacuation effort. our primary concern remains the safety of our personnel, british resistance and the citizens of afghanistan. we are in close contact with us and other nato allies to see what happens in the immediate response to this incident. let's speak to my colleague from bbc afghan service who joins us now.
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colleague from bbc afghan service whojoins us now. a colleague from bbc afghan service who joins us now. a devastating situation that we are hearing unfold. you have friends there, family there, i have friends there waiting at the airport, this really is tragic. i waiting at the airport, this really is traaic. ., , waiting at the airport, this really is traaic. . , , , is tragic. i have my sister there and the first — is tragic. i have my sister there and the first thing _ is tragic. i have my sister there and the first thing i _ is tragic. i have my sister there and the first thing i did - is tragic. i have my sister there and the first thing i did was - is tragic. i have my sister there and the first thing i did was to l and the first thing i did was to call them to ask where are you, do you know there has been this explosion? fora you know there has been this explosion? for a second, you know there has been this explosion? fora second, it you know there has been this explosion? for a second, it did not take and for a second, i thought, 0k, take and for a second, i thought, ok, that's it. they might be the victims, but luckily, she got back to me and said, yes, we are there and we can see the smoke. we can see people being carried out. they are being transported in carts, young boys around the airport are transporting people's luggage and thatis transporting people's luggage and that is a way of making a living for them, so they have now got injured men and women and children in those
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carts and they are being taken away from the scene of the explosion. we understand the explosion happened at the abbey gate, the eastern gate is very close by. that is where most people who were asked to gather for the us, those who were given us gate passes, they would go to the eastern gate and you can imagine the sheer number of people, thousands and thousands of people who were there, not just today but for the past ten days lining up there. thea;r not just today but for the past ten days lining up there.— not just today but for the past ten days lining up there. they have been there for days _ days lining up there. they have been there for days and _ days lining up there. they have been there for days and days _ days lining up there. they have been there for days and days and - days lining up there. they have been there for days and days and days - there for days and days and days waiting there.— there for days and days and days waitin: there. . , , waiting there. spending their nights there. waiting there. spending their nights there- waiting _ waiting there. spending their nights there. waiting to _ waiting there. spending their nights there. waiting to get _ waiting there. spending their nights there. waiting to get some - waiting there. spending their nights there. waiting to get some kind - waiting there. spending their nights there. waiting to get some kind of. there. waiting to get some kind of world and bilal— there. waiting to get some kind of world and bilal was _ there. waiting to get some kind of world and bilal wasjust _ there. waiting to get some kind of world and bilal wasjust telling - there. waiting to get some kind of world and bilal wasjust telling us| world and bilal was just telling us that there is now a pool of blood is at the airport on top of everything else. they have had to do with stampedes, people falling out of aircraft carriers and now this pool
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of blood, further tragedy to what we have seen over the past few days. one of the people i spoke to have said, we have cursed. we are cursed. this is happening to us, one after another, as you said. how much can you deal with? you are dealing with this indignity, this humiliation, losing yourfamily, separation, not having anything to live on and then on top of that, you are seeing the daily carnage and now at the airport, it is one of the most heavily militarised airports. there are thousands of thousands of foreign troops there and yet, even there, afghans are not safe. what it shows, it is clear, that the taliban have clearly no control or monopoly over violence, that afghans will continue to die despite the fact the taliban are now in charge of kabul security, as frank gardner wasjust
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saying, they have no control or monopoly over violence. such incidents will continue to occur, afghans will continue to die, and anotherfact afghans will continue to die, and another fact that we should not forget is that carbo as a city is one of the most heavily militarised cities. yes, disarmament took place, but there are weapons stored in every alleyway, every seller, in every alleyway, every seller, in every home and there are people who are, frankly, fed up that even if this incident was not carried out by the taliban or by any other group, i mean, who can say that there are not individuals who would just... just end it all? they could easily go and carry something like that. so absolutely terrible scenes and pictures that i am seeing on social media right now. i’m pictures that i am seeing on social media right now.—
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media right now. i'm 'ust going to kee ou media right now. i'm 'ust going to keep you there h media right now. i'm 'ust going to keep you there and _ media right now. i'm just going to keep you there and go _ media right now. i'm just going to keep you there and go to - media right now. i'm just going to keep you there and go to bilal - media right now. i'm just going to | keep you there and go to bilal who is with us on the line. bilal, we just heard the point there that the taliban may be in power, they may be trying to secure the city, but, frankly, they can't guarantee security. frankly, they can't guarantee securi . ~ ., ., frankly, they can't guarantee securi .~ ., ., ., , security. well, we have to really remember _ security. well, we have to really remember that _ security. well, we have to really remember that the _ security. well, we have to really remember that the afghan - security. well, we have to really remember that the afghan state institutions, the you know, crumbled. they were destroyed. i often _ crumbled. they were destroyed. i often think— crumbled. they were destroyed. i often think the crisis response unit, _ often think the crisis response unit, the — often think the crisis response unit, the two to two units, specifically trains to fight these sorts— specifically trains to fight these sorts of— specifically trains to fight these sorts of attacks and they are now gone _ sorts of attacks and they are now gone i_ sorts of attacks and they are now gone. i mean, intelligence officers are gone, — gone. i mean, intelligence officers are gone, police officers are gone and it— are gone, police officers are gone and it is— are gone, police officers are gone and it is one — are gone, police officers are gone and it is one thing to fight for the taliban, — and it is one thing to fight for the taliban, it — and it is one thing to fight for the taliban, it is another to provide security— taliban, it is another to provide security on— taliban, it is another to provide security on the streets of kabul and that gap— security on the streets of kabul and that gap was very clear to me, but the responsibility for the security does _ the responsibility for the security does lie — the responsibility for the security does lie with the taliban. i remember driving through when i fled
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the city— remember driving through when i fled the city with my family and there were _ the city with my family and there were just — the city with my family and there were just bunches of caliban fighters _ were just bunches of caliban fighters with rocket propelled on aids, _ fighters with rocket propelled on aids, heavy machine guns, they have no sense _ aids, heavy machine guns, they have no sense of— aids, heavy machine guns, they have no sense of providing security on the streets — no sense of providing security on the streets of kabul or an urban centre. — the streets of kabul or an urban centre. but— the streets of kabul or an urban centre, but as everyone would know, the taliban _ centre, but as everyone would know, the taliban were responsible for a lot the taliban were responsible fora lot of— the taliban were responsible for a lot of these attacks in the city of kabul _ lot of these attacks in the city of kabul and — lot of these attacks in the city of kabul and now they have got to prevent — kabul and now they have got to prevent them this will not be easy either~ _ prevent them this will not be easy either~ i_ prevent them this will not be easy either. i also know from speaking to wonderful— either. i also know from speaking to wonderful families who were stuck there _ wonderful families who were stuck there at— wonderful families who were stuck there at the time of the attack that there at the time of the attack that the suicide — there at the time of the attack that the suicide attacker had been among the suicide attacker had been among the people for quite some time. someone — the people for quite some time. someone had basically said that there _ someone had basically said that there was someone, the moment the bomb— there was someone, the moment the bomb went _ there was someone, the moment the bomb went off, according to this family. _ bomb went off, according to this family. at— bomb went off, according to this family, at least one attacker started _ family, at least one attacker started firing towards the people, so a number of people were also shot _ so a number of people were also shot we — so a number of people were also shot. we do not know if they were wounded — shot. we do not know if they were wounded or— shot. we do not know if they were wounded or killed. and then the
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firing _ wounded or killed. and then the firing between coalition forces and at least _ firing between coalition forces and at least one attacker is what we are being _ at least one attacker is what we are being told — at least one attacker is what we are being told. and the suez canal, where _ being told. and the suez canal, where the — being told. and the suez canal, where the americans will process people _ where the americans will process people want their documents were secured _ people want their documents were secured and vetted, is where i am being _ secured and vetted, is where i am being told — secured and vetted, is where i am being told there is a pool of blood and so _ being told there is a pool of blood and so an— being told there is a pool of blood and so an incredibly brutal attack targeting — and so an incredibly brutal attack targeting some of the most vulnerable people and this will, again. — vulnerable people and this will, again. be — vulnerable people and this will, again, be entire families, quite tragically _ again, be entire families, quite tragically, disappearing in a manner of seconds — tragically, disappearing in a manner of seconds and when you think about western— of seconds and when you think about western countries, leaders talk about— western countries, leaders talk about this evacuation is a success, you know. — about this evacuation is a success, you know. it— about this evacuation is a success, you know, it is simply not true. it is not _ you know, it is simply not true. it is not an— you know, it is simply not true. it is not an honest reality on the ground — is not an honest reality on the ground. the reality is that this is an evacuation at the 11th hour. the west— an evacuation at the 11th hour. the west is— an evacuation at the 11th hour. the west is in— an evacuation at the 11th hour. the west is in a — an evacuation at the 11th hour. the west is in a hurry and, you know, thousands— west is in a hurry and, you know, thousands and thousands of afghans, a generation of afghans who worked with the _ a generation of afghans who worked with the united states and other countries, feel abandoned. they feel
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their lives— countries, feel abandoned. they feel their lives are threatened now based on an— their lives are threatened now based on an artificial timeline. bilal, 'ust tell on an artificial timeline. bilal, just tell us — on an artificial timeline. bilal, just tell us how _ on an artificial timeline. bilal, just tell us how the _ on an artificial timeline. bilal, just tell us how the taliban i on an artificial timeline. bilal, i just tell us how the taliban may respond or react to this attack? well, we will have to come first of all, well, we will have to come first of all. wait _ well, we will have to come first of all, wait and hear. ifi well, we will have to come first of all, wait and hear. if i was covering _ all, wait and hear. if i was covering an attack like this, let's say even — covering an attack like this, let's say even a — covering an attack like this, let's say even a few weeks ago when the afghan— say even a few weeks ago when the afghan government was here, the first thing — afghan government was here, the first thing the victims would have would _ first thing the victims would have would be — first thing the victims would have would be the crisis response, the special— would be the crisis response, the special forces unit trained to fight these _ special forces unit trained to fight these kinds of attacks. the second would _ these kinds of attacks. the second would be _ these kinds of attacks. the second would be the ambulances ferrying the wounded _ would be the ambulances ferrying the wounded and killed and then there would _ wounded and killed and then there would be _ wounded and killed and then there would be a flow of information at least _ would be a flow of information at least from — would be a flow of information at least from government sources as well as— least from government sources as well as eyewitnesses. this is the first major— well as eyewitnesses. this is the first major attack under a taliban government ten days after they took over and _ government ten days after they took over and they basically continued to pride _ over and they basically continued to pride themselves on the idea that they have — pride themselves on the idea that they have been able to provide security— they have been able to provide security to afghans, that they took
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over the _ security to afghans, that they took over the whole country. i remember one senior— over the whole country. i remember one senior caliban official saying recently — one senior caliban official saying recently quite publicly that what came _ recently quite publicly that what came 3000 american troops due to provide _ came 3000 american troops due to provide security when the taliban have _ provide security when the taliban have been— provide security when the taliban have been good at it all over afghanistan? so it is also an embarrassment here in that sense, but we _ embarrassment here in that sense, but we will— embarrassment here in that sense, but we will also have to see how the taliban _ but we will also have to see how the taliban deal with this now that they are no— taliban deal with this now that they are no longer the shadow government, now they— are no longer the shadow government, now they are _ are no longer the shadow government, now they are the government, they are in— now they are the government, they are in charge. how do they deal with this? _ are in charge. how do they deal with this? and _ are in charge. how do they deal with this? and went do they finally realise — this? and went do they finally realise that they need to form a government soon? because after all, keeping _ government soon? because after all, keeping kabul functional would also be a challenge for them. that keeping kabul functional would also be a challenge for them.— be a challenge for them. that is art of be a challenge for them. that is part of the _ be a challenge for them. that is part of the issue, _ be a challenge for them. that is part of the issue, isn't - be a challenge for them. that is part of the issue, isn't it? i be a challenge for them. that is part of the issue, isn't it? the i part of the issue, isn't it? the uncertainty, the unpredictability, there is a power vacuum and no leadership. there is a sense of fear about the future and that is why we are seeing this sort of mass exodus or this attempt to get out of the country with some of the best and brightest, people like yourself.
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when i heard you had left, that is when there was a sense of helplessness because you had stayed in the country, covered every twist and turn, give us a sense of the feeling of the afghan people who are trying to get out and flee. i was feeling of the afghan people who are trying to get out and flee.— trying to get out and flee. i was on a lane trying to get out and flee. i was on a plane as — trying to get out and flee. i was on a plane as my _ trying to get out and flee. i was on a plane as my wife _ trying to get out and flee. i was on a plane as my wife immediately i a plane as my wife immediately recognised the most popular tv presenter. she was the star of the morning _ presenter. she was the star of the morning programme and she was such a household _ morning programme and she was such a household name that even afghans would _ household name that even afghans would prefer her show to the problems of the country. now she is gone _ problems of the country. now she is gone. afghanistan's best and most capable _ gone. afghanistan's best and most capable special forces, for example, are gone, _ capable special forces, for example, are gone, entire units are gone. when _ are gone, entire units are gone. when i — are gone, entire units are gone. when i think of the crisis response unit, _ when i think of the crisis response unit, i_ when i think of the crisis response unit, ithink— when i think of the crisis response unit, i think of saviours every time there _ unit, i think of saviours every time there was— unit, i think of saviours every time there was a — unit, i think of saviours every time there was a complex attack in cabo, and although there were attacks which _ and although there were attacks which resulted in the deaths and injuries— which resulted in the deaths and injuries of—
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which resulted in the deaths and injuries of afghans, these guys saved — injuries of afghans, these guys saved a — injuries of afghans, these guys saved a lot of lives, including children _ saved a lot of lives, including children. the most recent attack was only a _ children. the most recent attack was only a few— children. the most recent attack was only a few weeks before the collapse of afghanistan, when afghanistan's defence _ of afghanistan, when afghanistan's defence minister's house at that time _ defence minister's house at that time was — defence minister's house at that time was attacked and i remember throughout the night, the afghan special— throughout the night, the afghan special forces rescued close to 50 children— special forces rescued close to 50 children alone from residential homes — children alone from residential homes. these are the capabilities, these _ homes. these are the capabilities, these are — homes. these are the capabilities, these are the expertise that the taliban— these are the expertise that the taliban do not have and what is even more _ taliban do not have and what is even more tragic, — taliban do not have and what is even more tragic, that everything the west— more tragic, that everything the west built, you know, with the taxpayer's_ west built, you know, with the taxpayer's money, is literally gone. it taxpayer's money, is literally gone. it does _ taxpayer's money, is literally gone. it does not — taxpayer's money, is literally gone. it does not exist and it is unbelievable for that to happen. you have 'ust unbelievable for that to happen. yarn. have just made a very important points, the fact is that they can show up in kabul, they can take over the country, but governing a state requires so many different institutions to function for as you say, in the first instance, what is
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the crisis management here for this? where are the ambulances? who rescues these people? people have been dismissed from theirjobs. a functioning? are there the resources and the institutions to provide the support they need?— support they need? well, first of all, we support they need? well, first of all. we have _ support they need? well, first of all, we have to _ support they need? well, first of all, we have to basically - support they need? well, first of all, we have to basically find i support they need? well, first of all, we have to basically find out| all, we have to basically find out how many— all, we have to basically find out how many attackers there might be. the fact _ how many attackers there might be. the fact that after the suicide attacker— the fact that after the suicide attacker detonated his suicide vest, there _ attacker detonated his suicide vest, there was— attacker detonated his suicide vest, there was at least one attacker that would _ there was at least one attacker that would be _ there was at least one attacker that would be our challenge in the future for the _ would be our challenge in the future for the taliban if more such an attack— for the taliban if more such an attack took place, god forbid, because — attack took place, god forbid, because they would need the likes of the crisis _ because they would need the likes of the crisis response unit, they would need _ the crisis response unit, they would need local— the crisis response unit, they would need local intelligence officers, cid officers, police officers. one thing _ cid officers, police officers. one thing i_ cid officers, police officers. one thing i noticed about the airport over— thing i noticed about the airport over the — thing i noticed about the airport over the years, it was an immense threat _ over the years, it was an immense threat from — over the years, it was an immense threat from time to time from bombs, car bombs, _ threat from time to time from bombs, car bombs, complex attacks, and i
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remember— car bombs, complex attacks, and i remember a — car bombs, complex attacks, and i remembera few car bombs, complex attacks, and i remember a few months ago, if i am not wrong, _ remember a few months ago, if i am not wrong, at — remember a few months ago, if i am not wrong, at least one attacker who wanted _ not wrong, at least one attacker who wanted to _ not wrong, at least one attacker who wanted to get on a plane from here at and _ wanted to get on a plane from here at and carry— wanted to get on a plane from here at and carry an explosion in the air, in— at and carry an explosion in the air, in midair, was caught by the afghan— air, in midair, was caught by the afghan intelligence service, when this accused attacker had hidden explosives inside a guitar. and other— explosives inside a guitar. and other times it did not get a lot of attention — other times it did not get a lot of attention, but eventually it was termed — attention, but eventually it was termed a — attention, but eventually it was termed a successful operation to prevent— termed a successful operation to prevent a — termed a successful operation to prevent a tragedy. now these foreign fighters _ prevent a tragedy. now these foreign fighters in _ prevent a tragedy. now these foreign fighters in afghanistan over the last 20 — fighters in afghanistan over the last 20 years even, the taliban, al-anda. — last 20 years even, the taliban, al-qaeda, at cyrix, they have trained — al-qaeda, at cyrix, they have trained fighters with this destructive mentality. when you are a suicide _ destructive mentality. when you are a suicide attacker, you are talk to, destroy— a suicide attacker, you are talk to, destroy everything that comes in your way — destroy everything that comes in yourway. so destroy everything that comes in your way. so these are challenges, obviously — your way. so these are challenges, obviously, for afghanistan, for the international community, who will have some —
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international community, who will have some kind of a presence, but at the moment, — have some kind of a presence, but at the moment, you know, thousands of afghans _ the moment, you know, thousands of afghans are _ the moment, you know, thousands of afghans are leaving the country for safety, _ afghans are leaving the country for safety, families, children and women _ safety, families, children and women, massacred despite waiting for days. women, massacred despite waiting for days they— women, massacred despite waiting for days. they have to go through humiliation, go through insults, through— humiliation, go through insults, through physical attacks. to have this, _ through physical attacks. to have this, i_ through physical attacks. to have this, i think through physical attacks. to have this, ithink it through physical attacks. to have this, i think it only tells you afghanistan is a wounded nation, afghanistan is a wounded nation, afghanistan is a desperate nation, afghanistan is a desperate nation, afghanistan is a country where the afghan— afghanistan is a country where the afghan people feel helpless and they feel that _ afghan people feel helpless and they feel that they have no one to look after _ feel that they have no one to look after them. feel that they have no one to look after them-— feel that they have no one to look after them. . ., after them. indeed, and at the end ofthe after them. indeed, and at the end of the day. — after them. indeed, and at the end of the day. the _ after them. indeed, and at the end of the day, the ordinary _ after them. indeed, and at the end of the day, the ordinary afghans i of the day, the ordinary afghans always impacted by something like this. bilal, we will have to leave it there, but thank you very much forjoining us there. let's listen in on what are afghanistan
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corresponding to had to say. i spoke to a short time earlier. we are trying to make contact with a number of people we have been in touch with who are in and around the airport to check that they are safe and to try to find out more details. at the moment, they have not come yet, but what we do know what we are being told is that a suicide bomber blew himself up close to the abbey gate entrance to the airport. that is an entrance where there is a presence of british soldiers and american soldiers. i have been there and filmed there on a number of occasions. there are large crowds of ordinary afghans trying to get through. many of them without correct documentation, saw thousands of people there as well as smaller numbers of people who did have the correct documentation who were further along, closer to the gate. we are not clear exactly where this explosion happens, but also getting reports of ongoing gunfire. this is very much a fluid situation, very much what everyone was afraid of happening. as you say, a number of western security agencies had warned
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of the possibility of a suicide attack, saying it was imminent and that it was just a number of hours away potentially. that message not really filtering through to those people in such a state of confusion, in such a state of desperation at the airport and now we have had this blast. �* . . , . , the airport and now we have had this blast. . , ., , ., blast. and casualties remain unclear. we _ blast. and casualties remain unclear. we are _ blast. and casualties remain unclear. we are still- blast. and casualties remain unclear. we are still waiting | blast. and casualties remain i unclear. we are still waiting for that information to come through, but, secunder, bilalwasjust but, secunder, bilal was just saying, but, secunder, bilalwasjust saying, one of the things we need to look at is the security that was provided at the airport, just help our viewers understand that road to the airport, the number of checkpoints, who held the security of the airport and how this could have slipped through. i mean, freshly there's so much at that airport that so much as happens there, butjust help us understand there, butjust help us understand the make—up the airport. it’s the make-up the airport. it's confusing — the make—up the airport. it�*s confusing because there is a number of different gates and multiple different forces in charge of
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different forces in charge of different parts of the area surrounds the airport, so you have the taliban, you have american and british forces as well as other nato nations at some of the gates right by the entrances, really, and you also have units of afghan army forces that are yet to surrender, that are kind of working alongside american forces, so you have multiple different forces in charge of different parts, sometimes quite close to each other. we have seen lots of reports of taliban checkpoints leading up to the airport. i have to say, in all the trips i have done to the airport, i have only seen... in fact, i do nothing i have ever seen an active taliban checkpoints, as one would describe it, where people are being searched systematically and asked to they are and where they are going and what the document eight and is. i have heard colleagues talking about it, but all the approaches to the airport i have taken, there has not been that. you have seen taliban forces at times, but not checking
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and stopping people, certainly not on a regular basis, so this was a soft target. if someone wanted to carry out an awful suicide bombing, one can hardly fathom the rationale orjustification one can hardly fathom the rationale or justification for one can hardly fathom the rationale orjustification for it, given that there are so many ordinary, desperate afghans there, but if someone wanted to do it, it would have been an easy target to strike. let's just remind you of what has happened. the press secretary at the us department of defencejohn kirby took to to twitter to confirm the blast saying... the pentagon secretary taking to twitter and saying the casualties are unclear at this time, but there have been a two explosions in kabul. we had four makos, secunder kermani and bill also worry talking about
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the devastating seems there —— we have been talking to our colleagues. reports of people being taken away in wheelbarrows because they do not have the emergency services at yet. but i have seen the emergency services have also arrived. let's go back to the bbc afghan service. you have family and friends at the checkpoint, tell me what they are telling you. checkpoint, tell me what they are telling you-— checkpoint, tell me what they are tellin: ou. , ., ., , ., telling you. everybody who goes to the airort telling you. everybody who goes to the airport goes — telling you. everybody who goes to the airport goes through _ telling you. everybody who goes to the airport goes through a - telling you. everybody who goes to the airport goes through a series i telling you. everybody who goes to | the airport goes through a series of checkpoints and the line of people goes up to eight miler even further than that. there are... it is not —— up than that. there are... it is not —— up to a mile. it is more of a scramble, crowds of people in different parts of the street. they are there because they have spent the night, they have a tender because they have been living there for the past ten days, some of them —— a tent. you go through
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checkpoints and they look at you and ask you, what have you got with you, how many people are you, can you show me this document are that from afar. it is not a stop and search checkpoint. but then you go close to the gate where you see these massive numbers of people and you there for however long if someone can come and pick you up. some people leave because it is just too much for them. because it is 'ust too much for them, , .,, because it is 'ust too much for them. , ., , ., them. some people have been waiting a week, them. some people have been waiting a week. since — them. some people have been waiting a week, since the _ them. some people have been waiting a week, since the start _ them. some people have been waiting a week, since the start of _ them. some people have been waiting a week, since the start of this - a week, since the start of this chaos they have been that airport. absolutely. my sister was telling me, i am lucky because i have a portable charger. most people run out of mobile phone charges don't, so they leave to charge their phones, comeback or to have a shower. those are the things that everybody would be thinking about, especially women. they go through all sorts of things. so they go back
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in fourth and it is just a nightmare for most of them. but i want to pick up for most of them. but i want to pick up on what bilal was saying, the vacuum. the vacuum in a couple, those who know it, you know it and i know it, the taliban in kabul are not locals at —— the vacuum in kabul. these are men who came from, first of all, outside of afghanistan, second, they are from outside kabul. they do not know kabul, so it is a very hard for them to secure it if you do not know some of there are sleeper cells of their own intelligence in kabul. there will not be units of their forces, but the vast majority of them, from what i understand, they brought 10,000 people, taliban foot soldiers to secure kabul, most of those guys are foreigners. yes, there afghan, but they are are from different parts of cattle so they do not know
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the different parts are. that parts of cattle so they do not know the different parts are.— the different parts are. at the towel and _ the different parts are. at the towel and put _ the different parts are. at the towel and put a _ the different parts are. at the towel and put a plan - the different parts are. at the towel and put a plan in - the different parts are. at the towel and put a plan in placel the different parts are. at the i towel and put a plan in place for something like this? thea;r towel and put a plan in place for something like this? they probably haven't -- have — something like this? they probably haven't -- have at _ something like this? they probably haven't -- have at the _ something like this? they probably haven't -- have at the taliban. i something like this? they probably haven't -- have at the taliban. the haven't —— have at the taliban. the first thing they did was to go to prisons and release prisoners. who released isis prisoners question make the taliban. most of those isis prisoners are highly effective. they were the guys are men who were involved in some of the most horrific attacks, some of the most complex attacks of these guys, clearly know what they are doing. and now the taliban would probably be having a discussion amongst themselves saying, what did we do? we wanted to grant amnesty to everybody, regardless of their crime, but we ended up releasing some of the guys who were going to bring us down in some ways. if isis is responsible for this attack, nobody is surprised.- is responsible for this attack, nobody is surprised. yes, no one has claimed responsibility _ nobody is surprised. yes, no one has claimed responsibility as _ nobody is surprised. yes, no one has claimed responsibility as yet. - nobody is surprised. yes, no one has claimed responsibility as yet. a i claimed responsibility as yet. a western intelligence have been
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saying in the last 24 hours, calling on people to stay away from the airport saying that there was this concern of an imminent threat, so they have asked citizens and those who are trying to get into the airport and into aircraft to stay away from the airport. but we are still waiting for someone to claim responsibility for this. having said that, the security of the airport was in the hands of the taliban. and so, this will be seen as their first major security blunder. absolutely. the were major security blunder. absolutely. they were so _ major security blunder. absolutely. they were so responsible _ major security blunder. absolutely. they were so responsible for- they were so responsible for securing the airport and they have clearly given people assurances, not just to the afghan people, but to the us, as well as other international allies that they can and are capable of securing the airport. and it is clear that they have failed. we do not know, as you say, we have not got confirmation who is responsible for this attack,
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but regardless, they clearly failed. they could not secure the airport and the people who are there, the people who need to leave because they are in fear of their own lives. this is the question on the minds of most afghans at the moment, i think, if this is happening at the airport, what did we expect? how are they able to secure the entire city? for the time being, people are in short, at home, 1's life comes back to normal, kabul is a city of 5 million, how are they going to look at their own security? they are making promises, of course, but that will be something people will be worrying about. will be something people will be worrying about-— will be something people will be worrying about. let's 'ust remind viewers heat h worrying about. let's 'ust remind viewers heat in i worrying about. let's 'ust remind viewers heat in the i worrying about. let'sjust remind viewers heat in the uk _ worrying about. let'sjust remind viewers heat in the uk and i worrying about. let'sjust remindl viewers heat in the uk and around the world what has happened. we understand from the press secretary from the department of defence that he took to twitter to confirm there
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have been developed blasts in kabul. he said we can confirm, in an older tweet, we understand that there have been two explosions and a firefight. he says casualties are unclear at time and we will be providing additional details. a western intelligence agencies had been warning of an imminent attack and they put the finger of blame and isis—k. let's go back to bilal so adi, a journalist who is now in doha recently having left afghanistan —— bilal sarwari. the threat of isis remains real notjust when they were ellipses like we saw some of the most deadly attacks on a girl school recently, but also for the taliban. we did. they have carried out some of the most brutal and deadly attacks, but they were not the only ones. the taliban also carried out attacks in which civilians were killed and which they said was their
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work. we have to really remember how kabul worked. work. we have to really remember how kabulworked. it work. we have to really remember how kabul worked. it was a city and is a city of 6 million people. afghan special forces from the intelligence service, from the interior ministry, from the defence ministry would carry dozens of operations in various neighbourhoods in kabul city to prevent these sorts of attacks from happening and they would get immense amounts of help from western intelligence agencies, from fun interceptions to many other assistance that they would provide. so it was notjust an easyjob, it took a lot of effort. what has happened since the taliban took over, they have basically let the gates of all of these presents all over afghanistan open and it would release anyone and everyone, —— prisons. including releasing people who were accused of serious crimes. so it is a dilemma for the taliban basically now, how do they make sure they provide security on the streets
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of kabul when they have dissolved the police, intelligence, army and people are too scared to return back to work? and for these sorts of security operations, they would need the expertise of the people who served over the last 20 years because they knew how to keep such place is secure. despite all of that effort, we had massive intelligence and security failures over the years. we also know that in places like when i come from in eastern afghanistan, the group has had training camps, training suicide attackers, basically a group of suicide fighters are separated from everyone else —— a group of fighters. they go through a lot of these trainings in places like jalalabad. islamic state was also
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able to come i think, extend its operations into places like kabul where they were able to recruit from university campuses, recruit amongst the most educated afghans, even in areas north of kabul city. so we will really have to wait and see again for more details, but it does give you a sense of that any taliban are struggling to put afghanistan back into a functional state and now they are the government, they will have to make sure that the city operates as normal and everyone also once, actually, for normalflights, commercialflights to once, actually, for normalflights, commercial flights to resume once, actually, for normalflights, commercialflights to resume if afghanistan is to keep people basically going in and out of afghanistan to various regional countries, to the world, to places like to buy. if the situation continues like this, where there is a gap, many foreign airlines might be waiter tourism their flights, especially when you talk about
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emirates, turkish airlines —— might be wary. emirates, turkish airlines -- might be wa . . emirates, turkish airlines -- might be wa . , _, , be wary. indeed, these countries, there airlines _ be wary. indeed, these countries, there airlines are _ be wary. indeed, these countries, there airlines are making - be wary. indeed, these countries, there airlines are making multiple trips to kabul on a daily basis. hamid karzai international airport was a large functioning airport. i just want to remind our viewers here in the uk and across the world what has happened. we can confirm that, this is a tweet from john kirby, the pentagon press secretary... we also have a uk defence source that said one explosion followed by small arms fire and then a second explosion all in the vicinity. please explain the gate because there are a number, this is the one being secured by americans as wearable as british forces. this is
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the road leading up to the eastern gate of the airport. it is a sewage canal where afghans were basically waiting to be vetted so they could get in once their documents were approved. the fact that hundreds of people were using a sewage canal also gives an idea how messy this operation got in the end, but i had beenin operation got in the end, but i had been in touch with several families and i have not been able to get in touch with them via whatsapp. i hope they're all right, but if you white witnesses have told us that casualties and fatalities. 0ne witnesses have told us that casualties and fatalities. one of those people, a man who had as documents approved 1050 minutes before this explosion, told me that a lot of people —— ten or 15 minutes, they took people by hand,
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by karts and that told you that the ambulances could not get their own time because the area are simply too crowded. we know that some of the wind it had been taken to the emergency hospital, a hospital that continues to treat the were winded, so we will have to wait and see —— were wounded. 0n so we will have to wait and see —— were wounded. on facebook, social media, continue to see a lot of afghans, both inside and outside of afghanistan panicking because they cannot reach their loved ones, they cannot reach their loved ones, they cannot reach their family members. this is a very, very big number of people who have been there for days and weeks. , ., , ., and weeks. indeed, below. tens of thousands of _ and weeks. indeed, below. tens of thousands of people, _ and weeks. indeed, below. tens of thousands of people, many - and weeks. indeed, below. tens of thousands of people, many people| and weeks. indeed, below. tens of i thousands of people, many people you and i know trying to get out of the country —— bilal. i am looking at images that have come through to me of people piled up in wheelbarrows. i am seeing an image of people on stretchers and the ambulance has arrived, but this really does put the taliban any position because often we have pointed the finger of
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blame or they have claimed responsibility for major attacks on kabul city and other parts of the country and now they are in power, can a security city and any country? these sorts of questions will now be asked. —— canet they secure the city and the country? there was a policy you had to be searched by them if you travelled inside or outside of afghanistan. that was gone, but there was this professional security firm employed, you know, ivery professional security firm employed, you know, i very security scratch makes a vested security scanners, caning dogs and various intelligence operations. all of that is gone so it is a miracle that this has not happened early on. and secondly, how do you know who is boarding a plane? who is trying to get through the
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taliban checkpoints, through the american checkpoints. this is the problem with an 11th hour evacuation. this is what happens when you have deadlines, you have timelines. i want to say when i saw the airport, what i saw was an immense amount of commitment from the american, british and other troops and other people serving these governments. they were literally working round the clock, usually they would take the time, usually they would take the time, usually they would try to vet people, try to search people, and take their time, but that is, again, an issue as well. with an attack like this, i think it is also very clear now that the taliban do have an opposition facing them and an armed and dangerous opposition, a group that they have fought over the years. there are a lot of rivalries between them. i remember on any day when the taliban led the doors of
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one prison open, islamic state prisoners managed to get out, but several of their very formidable leaders, people who are believed to have travelled to syria and iraq over the years were assassinated in very mysterious ways, so there is a lot of bad blood between the taliban and the islamic state. again, we have to wait and see who may have carried out this attack, but everyone has suspected the islamic state would do something like this. yes. and we're just getting an update here from reuters agency, they have said an explosion outside kabul airport killed at least 13 people, including children and wounded many taliban guards, a taliban official has told reuters. briefly, we know when these numbers come out, it starts with 13, but it starts to go up very quickly.
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we've lost bilal so early. no, bilal, we've lost bilal so early. no, bilal. carry — we've lost bilal so early. no, bilal, carry on. _ we've lost bilal so early. no, bilal, carry on. well, - we've lost bilal so early. no, bilal, carry on. well, these i we've lost bilal so early. ijrr, bilal, carry on. well, these are not just 30 numbers. these are families, these are lives, especially children -- 13 these are lives, especially children —— 13 numbers. whose lives have been burned by the spirit alone and ending war. this is come again —— whose lives have been ruined by this unending war. afghan families have been denied the right to leave, the right to live and we will really have to wait again and see how those victims are. it does break your heart when you have a family and they are just basically killed and murdered any matter of seconds. how can a familyjust vanish like that? i think this has been a very, very harsh reality of afghan lives at least over the last 20 years, something i have seen. thank you very much — something i have seen. thank you very much for— something i have seen. thank you very much forjoining _ something i have seen. thank you very much forjoining us _ something i have seen. thank you very much forjoining us here i something i have seen. thank you very much forjoining us here on i
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something i have seen. thank you i very much forjoining us here on the programme, bilal. with me now is our reporterjohn donaldson. a devastating situation. i am seeing some of the images coming in of this. —— there now seems to be utter panic and chaos. iauntie this. -- there now seems to be utter panic and chaos.— panic and chaos. we have all seen those images _ panic and chaos. we have all seen those images over _ panic and chaos. we have all seen those images over the _ panic and chaos. we have all seen those images over the past - panic and chaos. we have all seen those images over the past weekl panic and chaos. we have all seen i those images over the past week at the airport — those images over the past week at the airport. tens of thousands of people — the airport. tens of thousands of people. we are talking about the numbers— people. we are talking about the numbers coming in now. 13 the latest figure _ numbers coming in now. 13 the latest figure for— numbers coming in now. 13 the latest figure for the number of people killed. — figure for the number of people killed, including women and children _ killed, including women and children. as you say, given the scenes— children. as you say, given the scenes we _ children. as you say, given the scenes we have seen, so many people packed _ scenes we have seen, so many people packed in. _ scenes we have seen, so many people packed in, with apparently little security. — packed in, with apparently little security, it does seem like those numbers— security, it does seem like those numbers are going to go up. what we know so— numbers are going to go up. what we know so far. — numbers are going to go up. what we know so far, we think and two explosions at the airport. a us official— explosions at the airport. a us official has told reuters at least one was — official has told reuters at least one was caused by a suicide bomber and we _ one was caused by a suicide bomber and we know that there has been a firefight— and we know that there has been a firefight as — and we know that there has been a firefight as well. sadly, i think there — firefight as well. sadly, i think there will be questions asked about there will be questions asked about the security that the taliban were able to— the security that the taliban were
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able to provide. and about the whole evacuation _ able to provide. and about the whole evacuation operation with all of these _ evacuation operation with all of these people flocking to the airport and western powers seemingly not able to _ and western powers seemingly not able to provide any security really. as our _ able to provide any security really. as our correspondent in kabul said earlier. _ as our correspondent in kabul said earlier. this — as our correspondent in kabul said earlier, this was a pretty soft target. — earlier, this was a pretty soft target, believe absolutely. there are crowds. _ target, believe absolutely. there are crowds, now _ target, believe absolutely. there are crowds, now when _ target, believe absolutely. there are crowds, now when checking i are crowds, now when checking documents and paperwork. people flooding through. —— know one checking. we had intelligence agencies working in the last 24 hours that an attack was imminent so it does not come as a total surprise, although so many people saying, maybe this isjust surprise, although so many people saying, maybe this is just not intelligence that could be accurate right now given the chaos at the airport. there was a warning that was issued yesterday. i airport. there was a warning that was issued yesterday.— airport. there was a warning that was issued yesterday. i think nobody knows that there _ was issued yesterday. i think nobody knows that there was _ was issued yesterday. i think nobody knows that there was a _ was issued yesterday. i think nobody knows that there was a threat - was issued yesterday. i think nobody knows that there was a threat better| knows that there was a threat better than afghans themselves. we have had a series— than afghans themselves. we have had a series of— than afghans themselves. we have had a series of horrific attacks in the capital— a series of horrific attacks in the capital kabul in the past few years, many— capital kabul in the past few years, many are _ capital kabul in the past few years, many are to — capital kabul in the past few years, many are to this group i isis—k.
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they— many are to this group i isis—k. they will— many are to this group i isis—k. they will have known it is not particularly secure, but it reflects how desperate people are to get out that they— how desperate people are to get out that they were prepared to take those _ that they were prepared to take those risksjust on that they were prepared to take those risks just on the that they were prepared to take those risksjust on the chance that they were prepared to take those risks just on the chance that they might — those risks just on the chance that they might get out before the deadline is coming for evacuating western— deadline is coming for evacuating western officials, the american pull-out — western officials, the american pull—out early next week. but he has come _ pull—out early next week. but he has come a _ pull—out early next week. but he has come a desperate situation. and i think— come a desperate situation. and i think aeneas will probably only get worse _ think aeneas will probably only get worse in _ think aeneas will probably only get worse in the next few hours. yes, absolutely- _ worse in the next few hours. yes, absolutely- as _ worse in the next few hours. yes, absolutely. as we _ worse in the next few hours. yes, absolutely. as we say, _ worse in the next few hours. yes, absolutely. as we say, we - worse in the next few hours. has absolutely. as we say, we understand that the explosion outside kabul airport killed at least 13 people, including children and wounded many taliban guards. that is a taliban official telling reuters news agency. as bilal was pointing out, we often talk about these numbers, 13 people, but so far that is 13. that is likely to go up, but these are children, women, families, and they have all been affected. yes. are children, women, families, and they have all been affected.- they have all been affected. yes, i have covered _ they have all been affected. yes, i have covered many _ they have all been affected. yes, i have covered many conflicts i they have all been affected. yes, i | have covered many conflicts around the world _ have covered many conflicts around the world over the and you often get caught— the world over the and you often get caught up— the world over the and you often get caught up in the numbers, so many casualties— caught up in the numbers, so many casualties on one side and on the
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other. _ casualties on one side and on the other. but— casualties on one side and on the other, but for every casually, or even _ other, but for every casually, or even people just wounded, many with life changing injuries, —— every casual— life changing injuries, —— every casual day. _ life changing injuries, —— every casual day, it is devastating for families— casual day, it is devastating for families any country which has been so troubled — families any country which has been so troubled for so many years now. absolutely — so troubled for so many years now. absolutely. and we were saying there is almost sums up the predictability of the situation, the fear and tragedy and the uncertainty of what the future holds for afghanistan. but also the international community because, as bilal mohsin, the taliban clearly have a rival they now need to think about. —— as a bilal was saying. now need to think about. -- as a bilal was saying.— now need to think about. -- as a bilal was saying. they have a rival in the extreme _ bilal was saying. they have a rival in the extreme inside _ bilal was saying. they have a rival in the extreme inside from - bilal was saying. they have a rival in the extreme inside from this i in the extreme inside from this group — in the extreme inside from this group is—k and this would generate opposition— group is—k and this would generate opposition to the taliban,
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one would think. they cannot provide any security — one would think. they cannot provide any security to _ one would think. they cannot provide any security to a _ one would think. they cannot provide any security to a functioning - one would think. they cannot provide any security to a functioning state. i any security to a functioning state. it is very early days, but that will get many people unhappy with what is happening and we could see growing opposition, i would happening and we could see growing opposition, iwould imagine. absolutely. and notjust that, this has been an exodus. when we talk about the pentagon press secretary yesterday, he was saying we have had successful operations and 19,000 people have been evacuated, but among those are the best and brightest of a nation that are now frankly on the run and having to restart their lives. and we had the british by mr borisjohnson singh very similar things today, praising the evacuation effort and highlighting the number of people they had managed to get out, but i think there is little doubt that what has happened in the last week orso what has happened in the last week or so took western governments by surprise. they were not expecting us and had certainly not talked about it happening are prepared for it in advance. , , , it happening are prepared for it in advance. , ,, , , advance. despite, in some cases, havin: advance. despite, in some cases, having been _ advance. despite, in some cases, having been warned _ advance. despite, in some cases, having been warned by _ advance. despite, in some cases, having been warned by their i advance. despite, in some cases, having been warned by their own | having been warned by their own intelligence officials, in particular, the cia that this sort of thing — particular, the cia that this sort of thing was likely to happen. so
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yes, of thing was likely to happen. so yes. there — of thing was likely to happen. so yes, there are many countries in the world _ yes, there are many countries in the world where — yes, there are many countries in the world where refugees and people seeking _ world where refugees and people seeking asylum generates huge opposition to people coming, but it is when _ opposition to people coming, but it is when you — opposition to people coming, but it is when you see what is going on in some _ is when you see what is going on in some of— is when you see what is going on in some of these countries, a country like afghanistan, you see why people are fleeing _ like afghanistan, you see why people are fleeing and are so desperate to -et are fleeing and are so desperate to get out _ are fleeing and are so desperate to net out. , ., . ~' are fleeing and are so desperate to net out. , ., ., ,, are fleeing and are so desperate to net out. ., ,, are fleeing and are so desperate to etout. . . ., get out. john, thank you so much for our get out. john, thank you so much for your analysis — get out. john, thank you so much for your analysis there. _ get out. john, thank you so much for your analysis there. let's _ get out. john, thank you so much for your analysis there. let's just - get out. john, thank you so much for your analysis there. let's just show i your analysis there. let's just show your analysis there. let's just show you where the blast took place. it happened outside kabul airport at the abbey gate entrance. it was one of three gates that had been closed following a warning of a terrorist threat. just to bring up to date, we understand that an explosion outside kabul airport killed at least 13 people, including children and wounded many taliban guards, that has a taliban official telling reuters news agency. and a uk defence source has said that when explosion followed by a small arms
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fire and a second explosion all in abbey gate vicinity. let's go straight to washington and speak to barbara plett usher. we have seen so much chaos at this airport. it has become the focal point of this withdrawal. we saw people falling out of the sky earlier in the week and there now ends in a way that withdrawal took place. it is certainly going to complicate the withdrawal because we still have less anyway, but a few more days for the evacuation plan. i guess the question now is, if indeed he evacuation stops and the deadline is brought forward, and at the decision will be to try to get the troops out as quickly as possible because one of the things the administration has been worried about my big thing the administration has been worried about is us casualties. they do not want to be bringing home us citizens, especially us troops in
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body bags and they have been worried about this last phase of the evacuation. they were afraid it could get nasty. so they had been telling us, they have been weighing the balance, adobe... we want to get as many people out as possible, but there are these security risks. president biden started to speak publicly about the possible threat from isis—k, the afghanistan branch of islamic state group, and of those threats really picked up tempo this week from the americans, but also from other western countries, including britain, as you know. and the state department put out a very specific warning to american citizen saying, do not go to the kabul airport, do not go to these three gates and name to those gates. so there was a very strong message coming from the administration that there were very credible specific and imminent threats of some kind of and imminent threats of some kind of
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an attack. the official word here from the pentagon is yes, they have confirmed the explosion obviously a little while ago. they said casualties were unclear. although us media are reporting that three us service personnel had been injured, we had been expecting to hearfrom the pentagon on a regular briefing about half an hour ago. that has been delayed while they are trying to get up to the latest information. we do know that president biden has been informed and is following things. he was, in fact, been informed and is following things. he was, infact, meeting been informed and is following things. he was, in fact, meeting any regular national security update briefing right around the time that the word of the explosion came through. the word of the explosion came throu~h. . �* . the word of the explosion came throu~h. , a i. the word of the explosion came throu~h. , a , through. yes. as you say, this really complicates _ through. yes. as you say, this really complicates the - through. yes. as you say, this| really complicates the situation because they just really complicates the situation because theyjust had tojersey next week which is when the taliban has said is their red line. —— tuesday next week. they do not want american forces then go on that point and now we have the sort of terror threat
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that has come through and they're asking citizens and those they want to come out not to come to the airport, so it is complicating the whole process of trying to get people out. it whole process of trying to get people out-— people out. it is a very fluid situation — people out. it is a very fluid situation at _ people out. it is a very fluid situation at this _ people out. it is a very fluid situation at this moment. if people out. it is a very fluid i situation at this moment. if there has been an explosion, it is clear there is a serious security threat. first of all, you have to look at the consequences of the explosion itself, whether there has actually been... early casualties are, how many, and how do you respond to that from a security point of view? the army, or military, has said are briefly to secure the airport and thatis briefly to secure the airport and that is what they will focus on. in terms of the evacuation, they have moved in recent days to a much more sort of streamlined approach and have been focusing very much and getting specific information to americans who indicated that they wanted to leave through e—mails and text and so on, telling their way to the part heard where to go. more
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recently, locally engaged staff at the embassy had begun to be part of the embassy had begun to be part of the stream as well. we know they had, the americans had conducted several helicopter flights to pick people up to bring them to the airport so they have been doing it that way recently. but there changes things. we are going to wait to see how things fall out here, how they will deal with the evacuation and at their timeline and their deadline for the back of s.— their timeline and their deadline for the back of s. barbara, thank ou so for the back of s. barbara, thank you so much _ for the back of s. barbara, thank you so much for— for the back of s. barbara, thank you so much for all— for the back of s. barbara, thank you so much for all of— for the back of s. barbara, thank you so much for all of your i for the back of s. barbara, thank i you so much for all of your analysis there. let's hearfrom our security correspondent frank gardner who spoke to me a little earlier about the situation.— spoke to me a little earlier about the situation. , . , ., the situation. this was, the warning was very much _ the situation. this was, the warning was very much about _ the situation. this was, the warning was very much about the _ the situation. this was, the warning was very much about the so-calledl was very much about the so—called isis—k, otherwise... they carried out 24 attacks on kabul alone, 18 in the year before that and as was mentioned there, they're absolutely
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ruthless and who they target. they have gone into maternity wards of the hospital and shot dead pregnant women and babies. they have targeted girls' schools, they have absolutely no morality whatsoever. they are considered to be the biggest security threat right now. they have not managed to recruit that many isis militants from syria and iraq. they would like to, but it is actually geographically quite difficult for them to do. they have recruited from disaffected taliban in the taliban fighters who do not consider the taliban are extreme enough. they have also recruited from pakistani taliban and have been involved in the drugs trade. you know, talking to bilal, who said this latest explosion sums up the failures of the withdrawal of the last 20 years, of the fact that an airport could not be secured? well, i think we airport could not be secured? well, | think we wru— airport could not be secured? well, i think we will have _ airport could not be secured? well, i think we will have to _ airport could not be secured? well, i think we will have to wait - airport could not be secured? well, i think we will have to wait for- airport could not be secured? -ii i think we will have to wait for the exact details but you have seen the
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scenes of chaos there. i think you have to separate things, the western military withdrawal from afghanistan was a shambles of the way it was announced. it was not the fact they withdrew. they were going to have to end their presence sooner or later. but the fact it was done overnight, practically, well, they withdrew from bag airport overnight, it ssibly pulled the rug from underneath the fairly weak and unstable afghan forces so they simply surrendered all over the place. but the airlift has been an incredible success, to have organised such a mass evacuation of people at short notice. this is bbc world news. if you are just if you arejustjoining us, we are staying with a breaking news of an explosion outside kabul airport, reports say a suspected suicide bomber detonated the device. sources sa at least bomber detonated the device. sources say at least 13 — bomber detonated the device. sources say at least 13 people _ bomber detonated the device. sources say at least 13 people have _ bomber detonated the device. sources say at least 13 people have been i say at least 13 people have been killed including children. the pentagon has confirmed american
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casualties, the reuters news agency reporting us officials say the number of casualties is expected to increase. 0ur correspondents in the city is a explosion took place close to the abbey gate entrance to the airport. 0ur afghanistan correspondent secunder kermani is in kabul. take us through the latest that you are learning in terms of the detail of the attack. are learning in terms of the detail of the attack-— of the attack. matthew, details emer: in: of the attack. matthew, details emerging on — of the attack. matthew, details emerging on this _ of the attack. matthew, details emerging on this but _ of the attack. matthew, details emerging on this but from i of the attack. matthew, details| emerging on this but from what of the attack. matthew, details i emerging on this but from what we understand, there was at least one explosion close to the abbey gate entrance to the airport, both british and american as well as other international troops had been stationed there, large crowds of desperate afghans had also been there, trying to get inside the airport. we are also getting reports that there was a second explosion close by, close to the secure compound where those being evacuated by the british embassy were being taken to. all suggestions at the moment that this attack was carried
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out by the islamic state group, western security services have warned all day about the possibility of an attack by isis, saying one was imminent. the group is much less powerful, that the taliban here in afghanistan but it has a history of carrying out devastating, horrific attacks, often on very soft targets and this would have been a pretty soft target because of the chaos around the airport. taliban forces have been there at times, checking people's documents, filtering them into different cues but every time i have been there, i have never seen people being patted down and searched and even if they were, of course, by the time a suicide bomber reaches that point, then it is too late, really, to prevent horrific casualties. some video being shared online showing piles and piles of dead bodies, so expect the casualty figures to rise, unfortunately. shes figures to rise, unfortunately. as ou figures to rise, unfortunately. as you are speaking, we are seeing some still images from the area, with casualties being taken away. the
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situation is still fluid with information coming in but what are you hearing about casualties numbers? it you hearing about casualties numbers?— you hearing about casualties numbers? , m numbers? it is difficult because we are in a state _ numbers? it is difficult because we are in a state of— numbers? it is difficult because we are in a state of flux _ numbers? it is difficult because we are in a state of flux right - numbers? it is difficult because we are in a state of flux right now, i numbers? it is difficult because we are in a state of flux right now, we| are in a state of flux right now, we still have a serving government health minister from the still have a serving government health ministerfrom the previous government. but obviously, we have a new government, well, we don't but the taliban are in charge. information is not coming out in the way it would have previously. from what we are understanding from us sources and a number of us soldiers, they have been injured, reports of around three us soldiers being injured, local media saying that 13 people were killed in total, and i expect the vast majority of these victims to be ordinary afghans, that is self in the case, has been so often the case throughout this horrendous conflict, of course. i heard you reporting earlier those intelligence reports were warning of
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an imminent attack and you are making the point that the information, despite it being known, it simply didn't cut through, in terms of the numbers of desperate people there at the airport who were still coming, who were still saying. exactly right. so people are there, talking about thousands in such a state of confusion and desperation that they are not going to be hearing this kind of information that they are not going to be receiving that. they are hearing all kinds of other rumours and just try to focus on getting out of the country. the other thing is that they have endured so much already to get to this point, many have camped out for days in dire conditions. what may have seemed to them as a vague or possible, hypothetical threat earlier in the day would not have been enough to put them off from going to the airport. there would have been large crowds there still. all the reports i am getting indicate there was a large crowd at
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the time of the explosion. secunder kermani, the time of the explosion. secunder kermani. stay _ the time of the explosion. secunder kermani, stay with _ the time of the explosion. secunder kermani, stay with me _ the time of the explosion. secunder kermani, stay with me because i the time of the explosion. secunder. kermani, stay with me because more information is coming in all the time. we will return to you in a couple of minutes but let me tell you that in the last few minutes, the pentagon press secretary, john kirby, has tweeted... usually, with an update in about 25 minutes —— we get an update from the pentagon about now and we think that will happen in about 25 and its but reuters is also saying that the emergency hospital in kabul says that more than 30 people were wounded by the airport explosions and six died on the way to hospital.
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different strands of information coming in from different areas, but certainly, reuters reporting that the emergency hospital in kabul saying more than 30 were wounded and six died on the way to hospital. joe biden, we are told, at the white house, has been briefed, and is being kept up—to—date with the situation on the ground as you would expect, the same in all the foreign capitals, of course. let's get more with our security correspondent frank gardner. we had had the warnings early in the day and tragically, it has played out exactly as one.— out exactly as one. that is very unusual. _ out exactly as one. that is very unusual, nearly _ out exactly as one. that is very unusual, nearly always - out exactly as one. that is very unusual, nearly always in i out exactly as one. that is very unusual, nearly always in my i unusual, nearly always in my experience whenever they have been publicised there are warnings about an imminent attack, it doesn't happen. sadly, in this case, it has and i think all of those people who thought it was just spin to try to cover up the withdrawal might have to think again. what did the pentagon mean when they said this is
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a complex attack? that simply means it is a combination of gunfire and explosives, which is classic insurgent tactics. it is what has been used in almost, well, many of the urban attacks that have taken place in afghanistan in recent months and years. usually, with a suicide bomber setting off an explosion, and in this case, it is almost certainly what is known as an sv ied, a suicide vest improvised explosive device, that is exactly what the intelligence agencies were warning was going to happen. let’s warning was going to happen. let's take this in — warning was going to happen. let's take this in stages _ warning was going to happen. let's take this in stages because there is so much to work our way through. the first thing that is important to note is that this was at the gate so it was not inside the perimeter of the airport where, of course, all that activity is going on inside. know, but they did not need to get inside to cause mayhem. this is why everyone has suspected it is islamic state of khorosan province, otherwise known as isis—k because they are no friends of the taliban.
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it may sound surprising to some people because they are fellow jihadis to some extent but the taliban are now in charge and they have got a vested interest in clamping down on any violence in the country and restoring order and establishing themselves as an islamic emirate. isis—k are looking to disrupt that. i islamic emirate. isis-k are looking to disrupt that.— to disrupt that. i will come back to that in a moment _ to disrupt that. i will come back to that in a moment but _ to disrupt that. i will come back to that in a moment but for - to disrupt that. i will come back to that in a moment but for viewers i that in a moment but for viewers looking at the pictures on the screen, these are pictures from earlier, around the airport complex and you can see in the middle of the screen, plumes of white smoke, just capturing the moments after the attacks. frank, you were talking about this offshoot of the isis group. tell us more about them. thea;r group. tell us more about them. they have been around _ group. tell us more about them. tie: have been around for six group. tell us more about them. ti21: have been around for six and a half years, they are not many in number, probably less than 3000. they are weaker than both the taliban and al-qaeda. they are based in nanga hub province in the east of the country, quite close to the drug routes that go in and out between pakistan and afghanistan. they have fought a number of clashes with us forces, with afghan security forces,
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and with the taliban. they have carried out some of the bloodiest attacks and in fact, secunder kermani, our correspondent, referred to them, such as targeting maternity wards in hospitals where they have shot dead women and children, pregnant women. they have hit girls in schools, slaughtering girls. they are the most ruthless and violent of all of the militants in afghanistan and of course, they belong to the wider isis network which is seeking to attack western interests and international and humanitarian interests, pretty much wherever they can find them, so this was a target of opportunity for them to be able to slow confusion and chaos and undermined the taliban rule in kabul. sorry, you wanted to say something? i kabul. sorry, you wanted to say something?— kabul. sorry, you wanted to say somethin? ., , ., ., ., something? i was 'ust going to ask and ou something? i was 'ust going to ask and you may — something? i was 'ust going to ask and you may not — something? i wasjust going to ask and you may not know— something? i wasjust going to ask and you may not know the - something? i wasjust going to ask and you may not know the answer, something? i wasjust going to ask- and you may not know the answer, but do we know whether the flights out from kabul have had to pause because of what has happened or is it still going on? i of what has happened or is it still aooin on? ., �* ~ ., of what has happened or is it still oooin on? ., �* ~ ., ., , of what has happened or is it still oooin on? ., �* ~ ., .,
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going on? i don't know, that is one to ask a secunder _ going on? i don't know, that is one to ask a secunder kermani - going on? i don't know, that is one to ask a secunder kermani on i going on? i don't know, that is one to ask a secunder kermani on the l to ask a secunder kermani on the ground, ithink to ask a secunder kermani on the ground, i think but i think the question a lot of people will be asking is if the taliban are in charge now, why can't they stop this? the man in charge of security in kabul is khalil haqqani, who ironically, has had a $5 million us bounty on his head, he belonged to the haqqani network which is linked to the taliban and also has some peripheral links to isis—k. it is very confusing, i know, and probably... it is even hard for me to understand it, all of these different and competing jihad groups but the understand —— the fact is that for 20 years, the biggest military force in the world was not able to stop these terrorist attacks and the taliban, who have just taken over kabul are going to struggle to contain this, i think. but the interesting thing is that a few days ago there was a secret meeting in kabul between the cia chief, william burns, who flew in to meet the political chief of the taliban, who
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is leading their negotiating team during the peace talks in doha, and almost certainly they will have discussed some limited form of intelligence sharing. why? because even though america has been fighting the taliban for the last 20 years, they now have a vested interest in keeping terror bases out of afghanistan.— of afghanistan. frank gardner, auain, of afghanistan. frank gardner, again. please _ of afghanistan. frank gardner, again, please stay _ of afghanistan. frank gardner, again, please stay with - of afghanistan. frank gardner, again, please stay with me - of afghanistan. frank gardner, j again, please stay with me and of afghanistan. frank gardner, - again, please stay with me and we will have more from you in a moment. i want to talk to another guest now. mark kimmitt was previously us deputy assistant secretary of defense for middle eastern policy and before that he was a brigadier general in the us army. your thought on what has happened in the last couple of hours? this your thought on what has happened in the last couple of hours?— the last couple of hours? this was anticipated _ the last couple of hours? this was anticipated and _ the last couple of hours? this was anticipated and i _ the last couple of hours? this was anticipated and i think _ the last couple of hours? this was anticipated and i think the - the last couple of hours? this was anticipated and i think the taliban | anticipated and i think the taliban has to take responsibility for this. i would take issue with the notion of a complex attack, it is ied and
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gunfire but the most horrific part of a complex attack is that you have an ied going off with horrendous casualties and then you get a lot of people rushing to the sight of that ied explosion, to try to help the people on the ground, the living and the wounded. then the second attack happens once that huge cluster has gone into help so in fact you get a double effect in these types of ieds, the first one kills and maims many, the second goes against those people who are coming into help and again, kills and maimed even more. as you are speaking, we are looking at a map of the international airport. we know the gate the attack was focused on. in terms of the implications, in terms of what is going on, the evacuation, what do you think will be the considerations currently, both in the pentagon and the white house?—
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the white house? well, firstly, like frank, i the white house? well, firstly, like frank. i don't— the white house? well, firstly, like frank, i don't know _ the white house? well, firstly, like frank, i don't know what _ the white house? well, firstly, like frank, i don't know what is - frank, i don't know what is happening inside the airport. i would expect they have got into a full what they call threat condition, anticipating more attacks, so they are more focused right now on the defence of the air base than they are on the evacuation. i think the majorfear right now we'll be that this is going to be followed by mortar attacks by isis—k. that would be against the aircraft so it is more than likely that the defensive systems like the counter rocket and mortar systems are full up stop what does this mean for the evacuation? i think it has come to a dead halt at this point, as people are running to duck and cover positions and getting ready for more attacks. if duck and cover positions and getting ready for more attacks.— ready for more attacks. if that is the case. _ ready for more attacks. if that is the case, that _ ready for more attacks. if that is the case, that is _ ready for more attacks. if that is the case, that is hugely - the case, that is hugely problematic, isn't it? we know already that the window is closing. we knew the deadline was not going
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to move and we know that there are still considerable amounts of foreigners, americans, still there in kabul. , , . ., , in kabul. yes but let me clarify, i am only speculating _ in kabul. yes but let me clarify, i am only speculating on _ in kabul. yes but let me clarify, i am only speculating on what - in kabul. yes but let me clarify, i am only speculating on what is i am only speculating on what is happening on the ground. but i think this also gives a lot of leveraged of this administration to go back to the taliban and say, look, we have agreed on the 31st, you have been unable to stop these kinds of attacks, you have got to reasonably let us extend the evacuations as long as we need. 0n the other hand, the pentagon and the president may say, ok, this explains and demonstrates our worst fears. let's wrap this thing up and get out sooner than the 31st. i certainly hope it will be the former rather than the latter.— hope it will be the former rather than the latter. president mccrone, the french president, _ than the latter. president mccrone, the french president, has _ than the latter. president mccrone, the french president, hasjust- than the latter. president mccrone, the french president, hasjust beenj the french president, hasjust been speaking and —— president emanuel macron. he has warned that the next hours will be extremely risky in kabul and i suppose that entirely
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underlines what you were saying a moment or two ago. is the reality here also that this is humiliating for the americans? we have already seen what we have seen in the last seven days in terms of the exit, and now this. ~ , ., ., , now this. well, first of all, it is humiliating _ now this. well, first of all, it is humiliating for— now this. well, first of all, it is humiliating for all— now this. well, first of all, it is humiliating for all of _ now this. well, first of all, it is humiliating for all of the - now this. well, first of all, it is| humiliating for all of the troops that are on the airbase right now, to include the british troops as well. but i think we need to be very, very clear that all countries anticipated that this could happen. the taliban needs to be humiliated, because as frank said, there is no love lost between isis—k and the taliban. and that taliban have just been humiliated because they have demonstrated that they are unable to live up to their part of the bargain when it comes to this. but humiliation is not what is at task, here. what is the real focus is the fact that we have a number of very innocent afghans, theirfamilies
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fact that we have a number of very innocent afghans, their families and children, killed because of this attack and who is to take the humiliation is really not at issue. thank you forjoining us. let me bring frank gardner back into the conversation, as we continue to watch these pictures and worth underlining that these were from earlier, in the immediate aftermath of what we now know was one large explosion, then gunfire, and then a smaller explosion. that sequence that we are now getting more details about. , a . that we are now getting more details about. , . .,, that we are now getting more details about. , . u, that we are now getting more details about. , . .,, , ., ., about. yes, marc was explaining what about. yes, marc was explaining what a comlex about. yes, marc was explaining what a complex attack _ about. yes, marc was explaining what a complex attack is, _ about. yes, marc was explaining what a complex attack is, in _ about. yes, marc was explaining what a complex attack is, in other - about. yes, marc was explaining what a complex attack is, in other words, l a complex attack is, in other words, a complex attack is, in other words, a combination of a suicide explosion followed by gunfire. this would, i think, point to the fact that this was planned. clearly, threat intelligence was picked up in the last few days and distributed by the us, british and australian governments to their citizens, saying, don't go near the airport
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gates because there is... well, they did not specify but the intelligence said there was a suicide bomber on the loose, at least one, with a suicide vest. and that is exactly what has happened. it is unusual for a public threat to be followed by an attack actually happening. usually, there is a delay, when nothing happens, people relax and then the attackers pick a moment when people are leased on their guard but clearly, with the airport evacuation airlift, with that winding down, whoever these attackers were, and suspicions are falling on islamic state, whoever they were has decided they could not wait any longer, that these were the last few days where they had targets of opportunity and they had targets of opportunity and they have been determined to do it. the big fear now i think is going to be, what about the safety of planes taking off? there will be planes overhead doing electronic surveillance and i start intelligence surveillance, target acquisition, etc, trying to spot any signs of terrorist activity around
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the airfield and particularly anybody trying to log on with a surface—to—air missile. we anybody trying to log on with a surface-to-air missile.- surface-to-air missile. we are seeinu surface-to-air missile. we are seeing more — surface-to-air missile. we are seeing more pictures- surface-to-air missile. we are seeing more pictures from - surface-to-air missile. we are seeing more pictures from thej seeing more pictures from the immediate aftermath with some of the casualties being taken in any way possible to hospital. we were hearing a bit earlier, 30 wounded, to have been ferried to the nearby hospital but in terms of what you are saying about this group in particular, do we know any idea of the kind of numbers involved in this offshoot because you are at their peak, they were about 3500 but they took a lot of casualties so probably a lot less than that. thea;a took a lot of casualties so probably a lot less than that.— took a lot of casualties so probably a lot less than that. they are drawn from both sides _ a lot less than that. they are drawn from both sides of _ a lot less than that. they are drawn from both sides of the _ a lot less than that. they are drawn from both sides of the afghan - from both sides of the afghan pakistan border, they have drawn their recruits from disaffected men's of the afghan taliban who consider that the taliban on enough. —— are not extreme hour. they have had recruiting success on the pakistan side of the border. they have probably only been able to get about 50—70 recruits from the middle east, isis in syria and iraq. isis
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of course was defeated militarily, there, they lost their self—proclaimed caliphate. they would very much like to set up their basesin would very much like to set up their bases in afghanistan but whereas that taliban are only interested in afghanistan, they want to establish an islamic emirate across the whole of afghanistan, isis does not share that agenda. they want bases from which to expand their even more draconian vision, version of sharia law, islamic law, and they want bases from which to attack western interests and all of what they call the so—called apostate governments. isis has accused the taliban of being soft, tools and puppets of the americans. they say, this was not a victory, just appear steel that was hammered out in air—conditioned hotel rooms in dhofar, they say you are soft. ., .,, , hotel rooms in dhofar, they say you aresoft. ., , . ., are soft. that opens the prospect of havin: 20 are soft. that opens the prospect of having 20 years _ are soft. that opens the prospect of having 20 years of _ are soft. that opens the prospect of having 20 years of one _ are soft. that opens the prospect of having 20 years of one war, - are soft. that opens the prospect of having 20 years of one war, and - having 20 years of one war, and morphing instantly into another. perhaps we will pick up on that in a moment or two but let's go to
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washington and barbara plett usher. i suppose in these hours, they are just taking stock, trying to gather the information of what has happened on the ground? yes. the information of what has happened on the ground?— on the ground? yes, absolutely, matthew, that _ on the ground? yes, absolutely, matthew, that is _ on the ground? yes, absolutely, matthew, that is exactly - on the ground? yes, absolutely, matthew, that is exactly what i on the ground? yes, absolutely, matthew, that is exactly what is| matthew, that is exactly what is happening. the president is in the situation room along with the chairman of the joint situation room along with the chairman of thejoint chiefs of staff and they are monitoring the information coming in in terms of the security situation and the details of the explosion and the details of the explosion and the details of the casualties. as you were reporting earlier, the pentagon spokesperson had tweeted that there were several us and civilian casualties which suggests that the us casualties were military ones, given that he makes that distinction and us media have been reporting that a number of us personnel were injured. that pentagon briefing that we were expecting about half an hour ago has been delayed and there have been other changes to the schedule here, the president was supposed to meet the israeli prime minister about now, actually, and that has
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been postponed. you will remember, matthew, that the president last week had started publicly warning about the threat of an attack which he said might come from isis—k, the afghanistan branch of islamic state, and that is one of the reasons we understand, one of the main reasons he did not want to extend the deadline of the evacuation, and then those security warnings picked up tempo yesterday, and the state department had put out a notice to americans in kabul, specifically saying, "don't come to three gates", and one of them was the abbey gate where the explosion took place. and now of course, there are questions about what this will mean for the evacuation timetable, where there are in fact it will even continue until the deadline. that is obviously going to be determined by the course of events during the day. it is a very fluid situation here, because of course it is in —— as of course it is in kabul. and because of course it is in -- as of course it is in kabul.— course it is in kabul. and a multitude _ course it is in kabul. and a multitude of _
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course it is in kabul. and a multitude of questions - course it is in kabul. and a| multitude of questions they course it is in kabul. and a - multitude of questions they are now pouring over but essentially this is their worst fear, isn't it? yes. their worst fear, isn't it? yes, absolutely- — their worst fear, isn't it? yes, absolutely. they _ their worst fear, isn't it? yes, absolutely. they had - their worst fear, isn't it? yes, absolutely. they had been - theirworst fear, isn't it? yes absolutely. they had been afraid there might be an attack, especially that things might get nasty as the evacuation period began to wind down. they really don't want, the administration, to have us casualties. it does not want to bring home especially american troops in body bags or certainly not american civilians, either. we had been told there was always a calculation between wanting to get as many people out as possible but having a security concern. i think... a focus is going to be coming out of this, to really redouble efforts to get as many americans who want to leave out as possible. that has obviously been the main priority so far for the administration, they have made that pretty clear. they had started to look at alternative ways to get them to the airport because of the large crowds but also because of these threat warnings and they had picked
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up threat warnings and they had picked up some of them by helicopter, giving them very careful and clear instructions by e—mail and text message about when, where and how to get to the airport, when to move to the airport. i think... we were told yesterday by the secretary of state that there are about 1000 contacts that there are about 1000 contacts that they have that may be americans who want to leave. i think they will redouble the efforts to find out if thatis redouble the efforts to find out if that is the case and that will be one of their priorities. no doubt there will still be an attempt to get some of the afghan allies and the locally engaged staff out but i think given that this has been a stated objective from the beginning, that will be very much what they are looking at now. and also of course, that military is going to be very focused on making sure the airport is secure because they will be wondering if there is another attack coming. i wondering if there is another attack cominu . , ., wondering if there is another attack cominu. ,, ., ._ ., coming. i will let you get away to talk more to _ coming. i will let you get away to talk more to the _ coming. i will let you get away to talk more to the officials - coming. i will let you get away to talk more to the officials and - coming. i will let you get away to l talk more to the officials and bring us any more information as you get it. but thank you for now. barbara
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plett usher in washington, there. let's talk to a freelance journalist in kabul, not very far from the attack actually happened. thank you forjoining us. tell me what you have seen and heard.— forjoining us. tell me what you have seen and heard. well, actually, i was standing _ have seen and heard. well, actually, i was standing just _ have seen and heard. well, actually, i was standing just outside _ have seen and heard. well, actually, i was standing just outside where - have seen and heard. well, actually, i was standing just outside where i l i was standing just outside where i live when i heard the explosion, which is not far away, following which, we could see huge plumes of smoke coming out of the airport area. later on, when i followed the local media and called friends, which is the first thing we do when we hear explosions, we start calling friends and family to make sure they are ok, thankfully, there was no friend in the area when the explosion happened, but as you know,
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there are hundreds of families and tens of thousands of people have been waiting at the place where the explosions happened, four weeks. now there were people who were waiting for almost two weeks, there were families and children, women. so the latest news that i am seeing from people in the area, sharing their videos, shows that the casualties are going to be massive and unfortunately, there is not much help happening because there can't be any ambulances in the area, there is not proper security and people in rescue teams helping people. you will see graphic images from the area, where women are shouting for help, people are calling for help,
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but there is actually... everyone is left on their own to help the people that are wounded. xyour left on their own to help the people that are wounded.— that are wounded. your description is incredibly — that are wounded. your description is incredibly distressing. _ that are wounded. your description is incredibly distressing. do - that are wounded. your description is incredibly distressing. do you - is incredibly distressing. do you have any idea in terms of numbers of casualties? we are reporting what we are hearing from hospitals and various official sources. what are you hearing? i various official sources. what are you hearing?— various official sources. what are ou hearina ? ~ ., .,, you hearing? i think from the videos i have 'ust you hearing? i think from the videos i have just been _ you hearing? i think from the videos i have just been seeing, _ you hearing? i think from the videos i have just been seeing, the - i have just been seeing, the casualties are going to be more than 50 killed and wounded. there are people, unfortunately, like animals, but on each other, and there are no rescue teams or people helping them. so i am very sorry to say that the casualties are shortly going to be more than 50 people killed and wounded. we more than 50 people killed and wounded. ~ ., ., .,
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wounded. we were hearing from our afghanistan — wounded. we were hearing from our afghanistan correspondence, - wounded. we were hearing from our i afghanistan correspondence, secunder kermani, earlier, who described this as a soft target. there are so many areas where there are so many people gathered, trying to get out. is that how you would describe it as well, an easy target for a terrorist? i think whatever way you term it, it is tragic thing to happen for people who are scared for their lives, and they want to leave their country, trying their last chance to be included on an evacuation plane and anyone coming and targeting those people, it is the most tragic thing happening. so there has been, we heard, warnings by the security officials in the airport but because people did not have any other choice but to try to get into one of these evacuation planes, they had to go to
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this area and they weren't listening to the warnings. we this area and they weren't listening to the warnings.— to the warnings. we will leave it there but thank _ to the warnings. we will leave it there but thank you _ to the warnings. we will leave it there but thank you for - to the warnings. we will leave it there but thank you for giving i to the warnings. we will leave it | there but thank you for giving us there but thank you for giving us the information that you know from where you are, pretty close to the scene of this explosion. thank you forjoining us. let me bring frank gardner back in, who is here with me, monitoring the various events, monitoring the information that is coming in and as we have heard from most of our guests, we are still learning the basic facts of what has actually happened here. ihell. learning the basic facts of what has actually happened here. well, what has happened _ actually happened here. well, what has happened is — actually happened here. well, what has happened is that _ actually happened here. well, what has happened is that a _ actually happened here. well, what has happened is that a terror - actually happened here. well, whatj has happened is that a terror threat warning that was issued by three western governments, the us, britain and australia, did actually materialise, tragically, in the last hour or so, materialise, tragically, in the last hour orso, in materialise, tragically, in the last hour or so, in the form of an attack, what appears to be a suicide bomber blowing himself up and killing an undisclosed number of people at the crowded entrance to the airport. the immediate submission is falling on an affiliate of isis, the so—called
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isis—k, orthe affiliate of isis, the so—called isis—k, or the islamic state of khorosan providence which has carried out 2a attacks in the kabul area alone last year. they are opposed to taliban rule, they see them as rivals and they are looking to disrupt their new rule. so we now have an extraordinary situation where western intelligence is on the same page as the taliban in that they are trying to stop terror attacks in that country. the successful evacuation of tens of thousands of afghans and foreign citizens from kabul in the last few days has been an extraordinary success but there was always the fear that something like this was going to happen, hence the accelerated speeding up, notjust because the taliban set the 31st of august as a firm deadline, a red line, as they put it, beyond which there would be consequences if the forces stayed on and that may change, given what has just happened but primarily, because of the terror threat which has now materialised.
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frank gardner, thank you very much. i know you will stay with me throughout the course of today's programme but if you are just joining us on bbc news, let me bring you right up—to—date with what has been happening at kabul airport in the last couple of hours, what appears to be a terror attack has taken place outside the airport, as crowds continue to gather there, looking for a way to leave afghanistan. the press secretary for the us secretary of defence has called it a complex attack which resulted in a number of us and civilian casualties. the taliban says at least 13 people were killed. the pentagon has also confirmed at least two explosions which happened near the abbey gate of kabul international airport. there are also reports of gunfire with some reports saying a suicide bomber detonated a bomb in a sewage canal near the gate. images on social media show into people being transported in wheelbarrows and other devices —— injured people. they have been taken to hospitals. information, pictures and detailed
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coming in all the time and we are expecting a briefing from the pentagon in the next little while. let's now speak to the retired hm hm mcmaster. == let's now speak to the retired hm hm mcmaster. ~ ., ., mcmaster. -- hr. i think we have to recounise mcmaster. -- hr. i think we have to recognise this _ mcmaster. -- hr. i think we have to recognise this is _ mcmaster. -- hr. i think we have to recognise this is only _ mcmaster. -- hr. i think we have to recognise this is only the _ recognise this is only the beginning. this is what happens when you surrender to a terrorist organisation. it is worth pointing out that this so—called isis—k attack has all the hallmarks of the haqqani network attack and he is now in charge in afghanistan now, a prominent al-qaeda member. maybe now is the moment we can stop our self—delusion and stop believing that these groups are separate from one another and recognise that they
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are utterly intertwined and connected and what we are seeing is the establishment of a jihadist terrorist state in afghanistan and all of us will be at much higher risk as a result of this. you said any medal _ risk as a result of this. you said any medal of — risk as a result of this. you said any medal of the _ risk as a result of this. you said any medal of the answer, - risk as a result of this. you said any medal of the answer, it - risk as a result of this. you said any medal of the answer, it is l risk as a result of this. you said . any medal of the answer, it is time to think again those of you are not seriously suggesting that the white house press is time to think again you're not seriously suggesting that the white house presses the pause button this close to the deadline? heck yes, i am. button this close to the deadline? heck yes, iam. i button this close to the deadline? heck yes, i am. i guess the question is for all of our political leaders, what is the mission? is the mission just to complete our surrender and withdrawal? 0r just to complete our surrender and withdrawal? or is it to get our citizens out and the afghans who are at the highest and most grave risk because they assisted us and were engaged in trying to build a better future for their country? if it is the latter, we better do a hell of a lot more than trying to hold on to a perimeter in a very small airport on the edge of a dense urban area. if the edge of a dense urban area. if the mission is to get people out,
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our military can do that. we have the capability to do it. i think a question you're alluding to end it has the right one, do we have the will to do it? i know you have written you really brutal assessment of the political dynamic. the decision that _ of the political dynamic. the decision that had _ of the political dynamic. the decision that had been made. i will come back to that any moment or two but in terms of what is happening at the airport currently in these hours after the attack, let me just ask if you are questions that because, in your view as an army man, a military man, how do you secure that area? what will be going on in these moments on the ground? the what will be going on in these moments on the ground? the only way to reall do moments on the ground? the only way to really do it — moments on the ground? the only way to really do it is — moments on the ground? the only way to really do it is to _ moments on the ground? the only way to really do it is to push _ moments on the ground? the only way to really do it is to push the _ to really do it is to push the parameter out. the problem is you have the masses of people betting on this perimeter and if you secure the perimeter you have no depth —— masses of people pushing. we had a early working from an intelligence perspective, but that does not do a lot of good if you do not control your perimeter out to a sufficient range where you can screen people at
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a checkpoint, layered checkpoints that would identify a threat. for as a terrorist to reveal hostile intent and capability before they get intermingled with the crowd like this or that close to the perimeter. it would require additional forces, no doubt about it and greater risk as well. i want to say, as a soldier, a lot of this talk about no casualties in and of itself, i think what soldiers want more than anything is to not be pitied, but instead to have a political leadership that will give them the resources and authority is necessary to accomplish a worthy mission, emerge mission that is worthy of the sacrifices. i emerge mission that is worthy of the sacrifices. ., ., sacrifices. i will return to that oint sacrifices. i will return to that point any _ sacrifices. i will return to that point any moment, _ sacrifices. i will return to that point any moment, but - sacrifices. i will return to that point any moment, but in - sacrifices. i will return to that - point any moment, but in practical terms, do you think it is still possible to get all of the remaining americans, let alone all of the foreigners, but the americans out of afghanistan before the 31st? ila
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foreigners, but the americans out of afghanistan before the 31st? no way. no. no. afghanistan before the 31st? no way. no- no- and — afghanistan before the 31st? no way. no. no. and there _ afghanistan before the 31st? no way. no. no. and there is _ afghanistan before the 31st? no way. no. no. and there is the _ afghanistan before the 31st? no way. no. no. and there is the question - no. no. and there is the question about how many americans are there we do not know that, where are the only country? what if they are in jalalabad or other areas? are still in the far south? it is impossible to know. , ., ., ., in the far south? it is impossible | to know-_ it to know. does that alarm you? it should because _ to know. does that alarm you? it should because everyone - to know. does that alarm you? it should because everyone is - to know. does that alarm you? it i should because everyone is talking about the humility and withdrawal of american forces from vietnam in 1975. i think we are going to fast forward from that disturbing image to the hostage crisis in tehran in 1979. that is what i fear. and we should recognise that haqqani, the security chief now for the taliban is the greatest kidnapper of american and other foreigners is the greatest kidnapper of american and otherforeigners in is the greatest kidnapper of american and other foreigners in the afghanistan— pakistan region. as someone who has been kidnapping our citizens, killing many of them in captivity is now in charge of
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security. what do we expect and what did rees expect when we signed the surrender agreement with the taliban —— did we expect? let me update our viewers. the emergency hospital in kabul saying around 60 wounded have now arrived from the airport. $5 now arrived from the airport. as american officials were saying a little earlier, the numbers are increasing. that had been anticipated, but following that part, 60 people wounded arriving at the hospitals. you have used that phrase and written about it, the us, we defeated ourselves, you wrote. we signed the surrender agreement with the taliban. that has a brittle conclusion. just briefly, you have touched on it already, why do you make that assessment? == touched on it already, why do you make that assessment? -- brutal. we entered into — make that assessment? -- brutal. we entered into negotiations _ make that assessment? -- brutal. we entered into negotiations with - make that assessment? -- brutal. we entered into negotiations with the - entered into negotiations with the taliban without the afghan government and delivered a blow to the afghan's legitimacy by doing that and to get to the surrender agreement was made concession after
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concession. we did not insist on a ceasefire. we first the afghan government to release 5000 are some of the most heinous people on earth to let them go back to terrorising the afghan people. and what we see now, we have prioritised withdrawal over any kind of effort to secure that withdrawal and get people out of harm's way. how is it possible that we give up all these airfields? before we evacuated... and evacuating the military before civilians question why all of this just shows that we prioritised just getting the hell out of there regardless of what the circumstances are let's be consequences would be. you talked about president abidin doubling down at present trump agreed to. did president trump get played about these peace talks —— president biden doubling down on what present trump mike agreed to. the person who personifies how connected they are is haqqani. but
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anybody taliban will impose a more benign form of a sharia. they know everyone is climbing out of there because they will be living under hell under taliban rule. the most significant of all is that there would be no consequences for the last war in afghanistan. we are already seeing in the re—establishment of the islamic emirate and we know they gained orders of magnitude, these terrorist groups when they control a safe haven and a script. they now have the resources of a state to mobilise in their endless jihad. the resources of a state to mobilise in their endlessjihad. we keep talking about we need to enter the endless war, but our enemies, these enemies of all humanity are waging an endlessjihad against enemies of all humanity are waging an endless jihad against us. enemies of all humanity are waging an endlessjihad against us. and enemies of all humanity are waging an endless jihad against us. and the sooner we realise that, maybe then we will be able to marshal the will to sustain the effort to secure our children and families from these criminals. two final question is, if i could. , �*
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i could. president biden said there was no way _ i could. president biden said there was no way of _ i could. president biden said there was no way of withdrawing - i could. president biden said there was no way of withdrawing without chaos ensuing. was he wrong? that ma be chaos ensuing. was he wrong? that may be true. _ chaos ensuing. was he wrong? that may be true. but — chaos ensuing. was he wrong? that may be true, but it _ chaos ensuing. was he wrong? trust may be true, but it seems like we were determined to make it as hard on ourselves as we could. how the heck does it make sense to withdraw the military before civilians question mark that can't make sense because does it make sense give up airfields in areas, jalalabad, kandahar, and keep the airfield most difficult to secure and has the lowest maximum on ground and air capacity to get out questioning how is it possible to secure only the military side are not the civilian side somewhere people can get on civilian sites. —— get on civilian flights. it seems we were determined to give every advantage to our enemies and i guess because of the self—delusion that may be the taliban would respect our desire for an orderly scratch make orderly withdrawal, we know all of this is lies, but it is astounding that anybody in their right minds,
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anybody in their right minds, anybody with eyes could have seen what was going to happen when the taliban were under control. you concentrate their own practicalities, but the pushback from the trump personalisation —— trump organisation is that 20 years later the fundamental decision had to be taken to end this war. i understand politics and pragmatism, but has a military man, it must lie in the face of everything you believe in to see american forces cut and run. believe in to see american forces cut and run-— believe in to see american forces cutand run. ~ , ., , . cut and run. absolutely it does. was it he where — cut and run. absolutely it does. was it he where the _ cut and run. absolutely it does. was it he where the outcome? _ cut and run. absolutely it does. was it he where the outcome? is - cut and run. absolutely it does. was it he where the outcome? is at - cut and run. absolutely it does. was it he where the outcome? is at the i it he where the outcome? is at the narrative correct that we had accomplished nothing in afghanistan? maybe we are now realising we accomplished quite a bit as we see the rights of the people who we have supported over these years being extinguished. while the narrative correct we could not have sustained the effort? we were spending the equivalent of 2.5% of our defence budget on operations in afghanistan. even before the capitulation
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agreement, we had 8500 troops there. that has a lot if you are ecuador, but we not ecuador. at the time of arrest, there were more coalition troops there, europeans and others than there where us troops. that was sustainable over time. and was afghanistan going to remain a word of the international community for the foreseeable future, yes. is it worth it? i think it was. no especially when we are confronted with the alternative. irate especially when we are confronted with the alternative.— with the alternative. we have to leave it there. _ with the alternative. we have to leave it there. thank _ with the alternative. we have to leave it there. thank you - with the alternative. we have to leave it there. thank you so - with the alternative. we have to i leave it there. thank you so much forjoining us live on bbc news. thank you, thoughts and prayers with our soldiers and the innocents who have been killed and injured in these horrible attacks. take have been killed and in'ured in these horrible attacks. take care. absolutely. _ these horrible attacks. take care. absolutely, pleasure. _ these horrible attacks. take care. absolutely, pleasure. let's- these horrible attacks. take care. absolutely, pleasure. let's sticki these horrible attacks. take care. | absolutely, pleasure. let's stick to our security correspondent, frank gardner, again.— our security correspondent, frank gardner, again. our security correspondent, frank gardner, aaain. ~ . .,~ ., gardner, again. what did you make of that? books — gardner, again. what did you make of that? books wru— gardner, again. what did you make of that? books will be _ gardner, again. what did you make of that? books will be written _ gardner, again. what did you make of that? books will be written and - that? books will be written and films made about the mistakes and lost opportunities of the last 20 years, but following on what general
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hr mcmaster said, let's put those is mistakes behind and take stock of where we are today on the 26th of august and at the situation as we are in the final days of this air left unless anything changes and the almost the worst scenario has come true of a terrorist attack at the crowded gates. we have seen this horrific footage on social media of the casualties. the taliban are in control. although general mcmaster referred to one of the haqqanis, there are actually two. there is one part of the senior security of the taliban and there is jalal haqqani, head of security and, at the moat. this does not look good for the new islamic emirate of afghanistan if it is chaotic. people come i am sure,
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will try to blame western forces for this, but the fact is a suicide bomber got into those cred, despite the warnings and did his daily business. they have now got to try and complete come as quickly as possible, the rest of the evacuation with talent and compliance. this is the extraordinary thing is that there was a visit by the cia chief a few days ago to kabul and a meeting with the taliban's political chief. i think we will see some cooperation there between the two former enemies. $5 there between the two former enemies. �* , , ., ., there between the two former enemies. a ., ,, .,~ enemies. as you are speaking, information — enemies. as you are speaking, information confirming - enemies. as you are speaking, information confirming what i enemies. as you are speaking, - information confirming what you're saying a little earlier to me which is at that us officials, congressional officials believing it was at the isis—k group that was behind today's attack. we were talking earlier that after decades of war between any taliban and western forces, we now have the potential of a new conflict opening up. potential of a new conflict opening u . _ , , , potential of a new conflict opening u -. , , , ., potential of a new conflict opening up. yes. this is when i would part com an
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up. yes. this is when i would part company with _ up. yes. this is when i would part company with general— up. yes. this is when i would part company with general mcmaster, | company with general mcmaster, someone i have enormous respect for, but the last thing afghanistan needs now is further strife, in work in another insurgency, another war, civil or otherwise. it need stabilisation. the taliban won this one, for whatever reason, whoever you want to blame, they won this one, they are in charge. they need to be encouraged to be as moderate as possible. cutting everything from them is not going to encourage them on that. they can reach out, they have other friends in the region, pakistan, iran, russia, china. they would like to be on the map with the g7 countries, but if they cut them off, they have other friends. we are where we are with them now and we needed the west, the rest of the world needs their cooperation on counterterrorism otherwise it will be a self fulfilling prophecy and at the place will turn out to be a staging ground for terrorist training camps again. thank you. once again- _ training camps again. thank you. once again. let _ training camps again. thank you. once again. let me _ training camps again. thank you. once again. let me bring - training camps again. thank you. once again. let me bring you - training camps again. thank you. i once again. let me bring you more information coming from the uk
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defence ministry confirming there had been no reported uk military casualties in today's events. also going on to say uk forces are working closely with our partners to provide security and medical assistance. that is the latest word from the uk defence ministry. nato's chief saying in the last well that couple evacuation remains a priority. what exactly that means, we have two still learn. we are trying to find out and perhaps we'll find out in the pentagon briefing when it starts whether there was are continuing after today's events or whether they have been passed. let me just show you where the blasts happened today, both happened outside the perimeter of the airport. one happening near the addy gate and the other close to the nearby baron hotel, used by some western nations as a staging point for the evacuation is a sense the air left began —— near the abbey gate gate and the baron hotel. so
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many people flocking there and the potential for attack was always there. the briefings on your pet from overnight warning of an imminent attack and a couple of hours ago we had these blasts. colin clarke is a terrorism expert and the director of policy and research at the intelligence and security consultancy, the soufan group. thank you for being here with us. your initial thoughts? i was able to hear what the general mcmaster said and i largely agree with many of the points he made. i had the pleasure to work for him and kabul back in 2011 and looking back at these issues that impact the insurgency. this is a disaster in the making and i think he is right in the sense that afghanistan is likely to turn into some kind ofjihad is the state. the nightmare scenario is foreign fighters will flock to the country and reinforce all the jihadi
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groups operating there. not only al-qaeda but several other groups. that answer, in a sense gets ahead to where we are. we have some very, very dangerous days ahead in the immediate run—up to the 31st as a president toqayev was saying a few minutes ago. yes. it will be —— president macron was saying a few minutes ago. the president macron was saying a few minutes ago-— minutes ago. the intelligence was s - ot-on. minutes ago. the intelligence was spot-on- we _ minutes ago. the intelligence was spot-on. we had _ minutes ago. the intelligence was spot-on. we had an _ minutes ago. the intelligence was spot-on. we had an imminent - minutes ago. the intelligence was - spot-on. we had an imminent attack. spot—on. we had an imminent attack. i do not think it will be the last one. isis—k has the capability to strike into the heart of kabul and it will be a very, very ten several days leading up to the 31st. did the international _ days leading up to the 31st. did the international community _ days leading up to the 31st. did the international community know - days leading up to the 31st. did the international community know that | international community know that the potency of this group? because any months, even years leading up to where we have got to, it was all about the taliban, the peace talks, trying to push back, make sure the
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taliban did not gain territory, much less focus on this offshoot.- less focus on this offshoot. anyone -a in: less focus on this offshoot. anyone paying attention — less focus on this offshoot. anyone paying attention is _ less focus on this offshoot. anyone paying attention is aware _ less focus on this offshoot. anyone paying attention is aware of - less focus on this offshoot. anyone paying attention is aware of isis-k. j paying attention is aware of isis—k. i wrote a book called after the caliphate where it was published in 2019 and i laid out exactly what i thought was going to happen, these affiliate branches and franchise groups grow across the world and we saw that in north africa, in the peninsular in egypt and now in southeast asia and now in afghanistan.— southeast asia and now in afghanistan. give me your assessment, _ afghanistan. give me your assessment, of _ afghanistan. give me your assessment, of the - afghanistan. give me your assessment, of the threat| afghanistan. give me your. assessment, of the threat it afghanistan. give me your- assessment, of the threat it poses internally in afghanistan and also externally. i internally in afghanistan and also externall . ~' , ., , externally. i think the primary threat is within _ externally. i think the primary threat is within afghanistan i externally. i think the primary i threat is within afghanistan and south asia and within the surrounding region but it does not rule out the possibility that they will seek to regenerate their external operations planning network and potentially look at one day striking the west. ih and potentially look at one day striking the west.— and potentially look at one day striking the west. in terms of what the west can _ striking the west. in terms of what the west can actually _ striking the west. in terms of what the west can actually do _ striking the west. in terms of what the west can actually do given - striking the west. in terms of what the west can actually do given the | the west can actually do given the position we are in, what is your assessment of that? it
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position we are in, what is your assessment of that?— assessment of that? it will be difficult. we _ assessment of that? it will be difficult. we have _ assessment of that? it will be difficult. we have a _ assessment of that? it will be difficult. we have a few- assessment of that? it will be difficult. we have a few eyesl assessment of that? it will be i difficult. we have a few eyes and ears on the ground now, that few intelligence assets. after the 31st, when western forces fully disengage, we will be flying blind. i think thatis we will be flying blind. i think that is a very dangerous scenario to move forward. what do you anticipate in the immediate hours for the evacuations. i read out the need to's chief saying the capital evacuation remains a priority. —— the natotree. that isjeopardised by the natotree. that isjeopardised by the basic security risk now. it is very much jeopardised. i would expect the evacuation to move
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forward. . the numbers continue to climb, at least 60 people have been injured, and intensive debts, taliban sources reporting 13 people had been killed earlier including children, we know that some us personnel also wounded and the pentagon earlier saying that they did expect the numbers to rise. we know that we are going to get a briefing from the pentagon in the next little while. they are clearly taking stock, trying to get information and intelligence from on the ground. these are the moments after those explosions, with the plumes of white smoke in the centre of the screen. we know thatjoe biden and the white house are being briefed constantly and updated constantly in terms of the situation
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on the ground. already, so much focus on what we have seen in the last week in terms of this evacuation and the questions asked about the mechanics and how it is mapped out in the chaotic days we have seen and now we have a terror attack in the last couple of hours. so this gets more complicated and risky and dangerous. the french president was saying that earlier, and the german defence minister a bit earlier in the day was saying, we have entered the most dangerous phase of the evacuation process and that has turned out to be exactly true and from what we have seen the last couple of hours. let's reflect more what was happened, with the policy director of the future of security programme at the globe seca policy institute. thanks for being with me. in terms of your initial assessment of what we have seen, in
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the coming hours and the implications, what are your thoughts? thank you for having me. we are predicting what we expected to see, meaning and escalation. find meaning and escalation. and escalation — meaning and escalation. and escalation of _ meaning and escalation. fific escalation of insecurity in meaning and escalation. e'"ic escalation of insecurity in the hours leading up to the deadline, really. let's remind ourselves, the deadline for the evacuation was set “p deadline for the evacuation was set up by the taliban. so we only have two or three days left and even already now, it is the evacuation is becoming close to impossible at this moment in time so not everyone will have to leave afghanistan before the deadline. not even the friendly afghanis who are working with nato and us forces and british forces and so on, but even some nationals,
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american nationals will not manage to evacuate on time. find american nationals will not manage to evacuate on time.— to evacuate on time. and how wor inc to evacuate on time. and how worrying do — to evacuate on time. and how worrying do you _ to evacuate on time. and how worrying do you think - to evacuate on time. and how worrying do you think that - to evacuate on time. and how worrying do you think that is? j to evacuate on time. and howl worrying do you think that is? i think it is incredibly worrying. i think it is incredibly worrying. i think we are seeing the scenario unfolding which is the worst possible scenario which might have happened it is actually the taliban which are dictating the terms by telling us —— of the evacuation by telling us —— of the evacuation by telling us —— of the evacuation by telling us this is the time you have to finish up the whole process. we also have this incredible dangerous terrorist situation outside the airport in the vicinity of the airport. as of the entire world knows, we are here on the clock. it is isis, the taliban, dispersed population, the west, the us they are not managing the situation. iilrul’hat are not managing the situation. what do ou are not managing the situation. what do you think — are not managing the situation. what do you think was _ are not managing the situation. what do you think was the _
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are not managing the situation. what do you think was the fundamental mistake? do you think it was the decision to withdraw the mechanics, how they have actually done at? i think it is both. i think the original scene was president trump's talks with the taliban and him agreeing on the pull—out —— original mistake. the taliban, agreeing on the terms of this polite and then the terms of this polite and then the biden administration agreeing to carry on with that, with the terms and conditions. we had hoped that would be an orderly process, but by agreeing to those terms and conditions, we actually removed any possibility to manage the situation and now we see a consequence of that. at and now we see a consequence of that. �* , ., ., . ., , that. at the g7 in carmel, a couple of months — that. at the g7 in carmel, a couple of months ago. — that. at the g7 in carmel, a couple of months ago, president - that. at the g7 in carmel, a couple of months ago, president biden i that. at the g7 in carmel, a couple i of months ago, president biden said america is back —— cornwall. two months on, what would be your assessment of where we are in terms
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of the us and the international dimension? i of the us and the international dimension?— of the us and the international dimension? ~' ., ,., , dimension? i think in global terms, we cannot really _ dimension? i think in global terms, we cannot really say _ dimension? i think in global terms, we cannot really say that america l dimension? i think in globalterms, | we cannot really say that america is back. quite the opposite. the takeover of afghanistan by the taliban and the change in leadership in the taliban itself is always bad news for whatever power was influential in this area. let's just revise the clock back to 1989, the soviet forces pulling out of afghanistan after ten years afg ha nista n after ten yea rs presence. afghanistan after ten years presence. it is billed at the end of communism and the collapse of communism and the collapse of communism and the entire eastern bloc, but also the dissolution of the soviet union. i'm not saying that we will be faced with equal events for the west at these days, but it is quite clear that when the us and at the west
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is leaving in panic right now, the message to the world there is that were not managing the situation and other powers, especially china and rush hour are setting in. both china and rush hour are not evacuating from any diplomatic presence from afghanistan and rush hour has increased its military presence in the direct vicinity of afghanistan. martin, we have to leave it there because we are coming up to the top of the error so thank you very much forjoining us and giving us that analysis. let's spend the next couple of minutes with frank gardner who is still with me, still monitoring both the pictures the details, the information and, in terms of casual to numbers, frank, as you would expect in a situation like this, hour by hour, the numbers seem to grow. the like this, hour by hour, the numbers seem to grow-— seem to grow. the latest estimate unconfirmed _ seem to grow. the latest estimate unconfirmed as _ seem to grow. the latest estimate unconfirmed as it _ seem to grow. the latest estimate unconfirmed as it could _ seem to grow. the latest estimate unconfirmed as it could be - seem to grow. the latest estimate unconfirmed as it could be up i seem to grow. the latest estimate unconfirmed as it could be up to i seem to grow. the latest estimate | unconfirmed as it could be up to 50 people killed from this. that is not confirmed. certainly, the numbers
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confirmed. certainly, the numbers confirmed in kabul hospital are rising, doubled within minutes from 30 to 60. six people having died on the way. there are unconfirmed reports or uncorroborated reports, of actually how many us servicemen might have been killed by this attack. the point is this was something that was warned, there was intelligence about it in the last few days, communicated to everybody that the affiliate of isis in afghanistan, so—called isis—k, isis khorasan was going to try to attack a crowded gate, a crowded concentration point where it would be very difficult to stop somebody. that is exactly what has happened and it seems the attacker was wearing a suicide vest, followed by gunfire and a second explosion. so some people are very pessimistic think this is the start of yet more chaos. i think it will concentrate minds pretty thoroughly now. there has been a cobra crisis or emergency
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meeting happening in london chaired ljy meeting happening in london chaired by borisjohnson, the british prime minister to try and discuss how they now get the last remaining people out as they can. after that the whole operation will close down and we are into bigger issues like are the taliban going to rule harshly, clamp down on terrorism? let’s the taliban going to rule harshly, clamp down on terrorism? let's end this hour with _ clamp down on terrorism? let's end this hour with that _ clamp down on terrorism? let's end this hour with that final _ clamp down on terrorism? let's end this hour with that final thought i this hour with that final thought because in terms of the application, it falls into two categories, the short term around these final few days and security and the longer term possible i think the encouraging thing is that clearly, the us is talking to the taliban. it would be ridiculous given the status quo that the taliban are in control of 90% of the country, it would be absurd for them not to be talking so the cia chief learned kaplan had a secret meeting with the taliban political chief with a mullah baradar. the two sides, the former two enemies are need to talk and the taliban governed afghanistan needs
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to stabilise because the last thing that poor country needs now is another 20 years of conflict. frank gardner, another 20 years of conflict. frank gardner. a — another 20 years of conflict. frank gardner, a security _ another 20 years of conflict. frank gardner, a security correspondent. thank you for being with me over the last hour. i know you will stay with me in the coming minutes. this is bbc world news, i'm matthew amroliwala. there's been a twin bomb attack with reports of gunfire outside kabul airport as western governments try to evacuate civilians from the city. initial reports point to a suicide bombing — it's thought at least 13 are dead, including children. the us government says there have been american casualties. it comes as thousands had still been gathering outside the airport — despite clear warnings of an imminent attack.

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