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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  September 6, 2021 4:30am-5:01am BST

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the afghan resistance leader who's been waging an intense battle against the taliban to stop them taking control of panjshir province has said he's willing to enter peace talks. ahmad massoud said he supported a plan, put forward by religious clerics, for a negotiated settlement. a football world cup qualifier between argentina and brazil has been stopped minutes after kick—off, following an intervention on the pitch by brazilian health officials. they accused four argentine players of having broken brazil's covid quarantine rules. the brazilian health agency said its previous warnings had been ignored by the argentine side. conjoined twins from israel have seen each other for the first time, after undergoing rare separation surgery. the one—year—old sisters — who were born conjoined at the back of their heads — underwent a 12 hour operation. the hospital says the surgery took months of preparation.
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now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. today i am on the shores of italy's lake como at an annual opportunity for politicians on both sides of the atlantic to gather and talk geopolitics. and this year there is one dominant issue, the us led pull—out from afghanistan. now that it's done, how does america see itself? and its global role? well, my guess is influential american senator lindsey graham, a close confidant of donald trump. is america first now a bipartisan consensus?
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senator lindsey graham, welcome. thank you. america is sacrificing no more blood and treasure in afghanistan, isn't that a source of profound relief to the american people? er, no. i think most americans are upset that we left our afghan allies behind. i think most americans are upset that we left american citizens behind enemy lines, i think a lot of americans wanted to wash their hands of afghanistan. it has been 20 years. that is what the polls say, the american public had had enough. but not now. if you asked them if they were worried the majority said we shouldn't have left. democracies have always been schizophrenic about this. if you talk about making
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afghanistan a democracy there's not a whole lot of support. if you talk about having some of our troops over there so that radical islam doesn't hit us at home, there is support. the problem with people in the business is that we have never talked to the american people about why it matters about afghanistan. everybody remembers 9/11 like it's a week away. but we never made a case of an indirect presence. the likelihood of people helping us in the future against radical islam has gone down. the likelihood of al-qaeda and isis hitting us again has gone up. let's talk about the politics of this. just a few days ago you made an extraordinary statement and said presidentjoe biden should face impeachment for what he has done. it should be on the table, i think. how can you say that when the root of the decision to get out of afghanistan was clearly ceded by president donald trump?
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he was the one, back in february 2020, who did the deal with the taliban, released thousands of taliban fighter business and he was the one who put that deadline on the table. well, the deal was as follows: conditions based. if the taliban worked in good faith with the afghan government to form an inclusive government under the constitution of afghanistan and they did not try to take the country over militarily we were going to leave at the beginning of next year. neither one of those conditions were accepted orfollowed, but here is what i would say. they changed every other trump policy, because they have the right to do so, if they wanted to. hang on a minute. you matter. you are one of donald trump's closest confidant. are you acknowledging donald trump got this horribly wrong? i think he made a mistake of negotiating with the taliban without the afghan government. i would have done it differently. and releasing those 5000 fighters? it's not so much that. how does the war end? reconciliation between
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the taliban and afghan people writ large. negotiating to end the war makes perfect sense to me. allowing the taliban to take over the country militarily makes no sense to me. and there were conditions on the deal with trump they could not do that so, whether you blame trump or biden here is what awaits us as a western world. those who fought along our side are going to make a very terrible demise, they're going to be treated very poorly. and our likelihood of having friends in the future to deal with the radical islamic threats goes down. and if you don't think al-qaeda and isis are planning ways to hit us right now from afghanistan, i think you're making a grave mistake. but to be blunt about itjoe biden, echoing the sentiments donald trump, has told the american people we are no longer in the business of nation building, fighting forever wars on other people's behalf. so when you talk about the people living in fear in
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kabul today, the horrible situation facing women who think their rights may be abused and eroded, the message from america is, we don't and we cannot care about that and put our forces in harms way for that. i think that is thejoe biden message which is dumb as dirt. and let me tell you why i think joe biden has been wrong for almost 20 years on this stuff. joe biden doesn't see the existential threat from afghanistan to the american homeland. how did we get attacked 20 years ago, september 11? the taliban gave al-qaeda safe haven to plan and plot against america. the soldiers who were there, the british soldiers, the nato forces, the american forces, were there to give capability to the afghan military said that the taliban would take over the country and give safe haven to radical islamic groups who would attack us. when the caliphate was formed syria and iraq 20 countries got hit in 2000 people got hit. we pulled out of iraq. here is what we're trying to tell the american people.
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the residual counterterrorism force made up of nato members and us special forces is an insurance policy against another 9/11. president biden is trying to tell the american people there is no vital security interest in afghanistan and he's dead wrong. the nato were willing to stay in afghanistan if we stayed. we chose not to stay. they couldn't stay if we left. so you may be tired of fighting radical islam, they're not tired of fighting you. i am again very mindful of the fact that, for the last few years, you have been one of donald trump's biggest cheerleaders in us congress. it was donald trump who called nato obsolete. it is donald trump who has developed a toxic relationship between the united states and much of europe and other partners around the world. crosstalk. it was donald trump, frankly, who seemed much more confident to do it but comfortable dealing with authoritarians.
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if you were great support if you now feel the way you do? i have always felt nato was a good partner. donald trump got nato to up its game, to contribute more. donald trump took a military in the united states, that was pretty well depleted, and made it a strong ties been since ronald reagan. donald trump was the america first president. he planted the seeds of isolationism that we see today in your country. i would say let'sjudge him based on what he did. he destroyed the caliphate. 0k? it rose on 0bama and biden�*s watch and trump sent the military in to destroy it. when he left about 2500 us soldiers on the ground with nato allies. they are no longer there. he rebuilt the military in a fashion where we can be effective all over the globe. the deterioration of the military during the 0bama years was real. so, here's my point.
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whether you like trump or not, whether you believe it's trump's fault or biden�*s fault, here is where we are at as a world. the taliban are not reformed. they are not new. they have a view of the world out of sync with modern times. they're going to pose a lifestyle on the afghan people. that i think is going to make us all stick to our stomach, but most importantly, they are going to get safe haven to al-qaeda who has ambitions to drive us out of the mid east writ large and attack us because of our way of life. we'll be going back into afghanistan as he went back into iraq and syria. do you seriously think the united states will once again in the foreseeable future put troops back into afghanistan? we'll have two because the threat will be so large. why do we go back to syria and iraq? why do we have 5,000 troops in iraq today?
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because of the caliphate rising, projecting force outside of iraq, killing americans, killing the french, attacking the british. so, yes, it will be a cauldron for a radical islamic behaviour. you cannot with this over the horizon. here's my solution. help the resistance in the panjshir valley. the taliban will not be able to govern afghanistan for that they hated by the afghan people. what will happen over time as you will see the resistance rise. isis will come after the taliban large, and the entire country is going to fracture in the next year. creating a perfect storm for western interest to be attacked. you can do one of two things. you can say, that's no longer my problem, let it build and get hit or hit them before they hit you. i want to talk a little bit less about geopolitics and about personal politics. yourjourney, to many people, both in the united states and around the world, it's pretty inexplicable. you were the great friend and ally of john mccain and you and he —
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and i've interviewed him about this in the you and he with a great advocate of using american military mites overseas and you believed in defending values and protecting america's power in 2016 you jumped horses. you backed donald trump. as i said, the america first president many see as an isolationist. he hated john mccain but you made a choice. you chose proximity to power with trump over principal and john mccain. yeah, that's sort of the liberal narrative and here's what actually happened. trump won. right. i didn't choose donald trump. the american people chose donald trump. my state voted for donald trump. i'm a senator from south carolina. john mccain was pretty good with working people he didn't get along with. i made a conscious decision after saying everything bad i could during 2016. you know i'm going to wheel out the quote for you
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called donald trump, you said, don't vote for this guy �*cause he's a race baiting xenophobic bigot. religious bigot. he does not represent me. and you know what my party told me? go to hell. he won. you thought the guy was a xenophobic bigot. i accepted the consequences of the election. ina in a democracy i could take my ball and go home but the people of south carolina chose president trump. the people of america chose president trump. i tried to help where i could. so it is ok to help a guy who you believe is a racist bigot through four years? it is ok for kamala harris to service joe biden�*s vice president when it's suggested he supported racist policies. if you know anything about democracy, when the election�*s over, if it doesn't end then you never had the ability to govern. so i understand the game
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being played here and what will i do? i will helpjoe biden where i can. i voted for the infrastructure bill. i'd like to help him more but it seems that we have on different planets, politically. if donald trump runs again i will support him. this debate is not academic as it was in 2016. it's about today, your party, and the future of the united states. for example, your party right now looks like it is dominated by an extremist faction. would you agree with that? from your view i agree that's what you think. no, i don't agree with that. who is driving the strategy, the vision of your party? is it the people that you continue to believe... crosstalk. let me finish the question. is it driven by the people who continue to believe that the election was rigged. it was stolen from donald trump, that biden has no legitimacy and that assault on the capital on the 6th of january was, as many of your colleagues in the party continued to insist, actually
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the work of leftist radicals, not the work of trump supporters? no. that's not the majority of the republican party. what happened january six was an affront to democracy. the bottom line is i hope everybody goes to jail. what is driving this party is that the way we do business in to get better over time. we control the border. it's nowjust a complete chaos. during our time we cut your taxes. they are spending money like drunken sailors and deflation is through the roof. i think america is going to vote republican because they see us as better policy choices. this is going to be a policy election. you're going to try make it about donald trump and it won't work. is the republican party viable without donald trump? yes. so why are you clinging to him? �*cause i think he's the leader of the party. what makes you think you've lost the election or not? yes, i think he lost the election. he doesn't.
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you definitely lost the election. he says it was stolen. the guy doesn't accept the democratic verdict of the american people. hilary didn't accept the election. i'm sorry, there's no comparison. donald trump sits in mara lago and says the selection was rigged, it was stolen and that joe biden is not the legitimate president. he believes that, i don't believe that. why do you say he is the leader of our party then? the policies he enacted work. see, most people are not going to judge 2022 by what trump said, they are going tojudge based on life in america. life in america now is pretty tough. crime is on the rise. the borders are broken, inflation is rampant, afghanistan is a mess and we look weak and feckless. we are coming back because the way they have overplayed their hand, we are coming back because when you look back and compare trump's handling of the world and the economy versus
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that of biden, we're going to because trump's policies will wear well over time. just one more thought. you are talking about trump still popular. i'm talking about values and belief in democracy and the fact that some people in your party in congress alike marjorie green, that they basically supported the the conspiracy theories, they are extremists. they are not the leaders of this party. i won't through this with cnn last night. that's the liberal narrative. nikki haley, mike pompeo. we have a lot of younger people that are coming out. people like liz cheney, respected conservatives for years, now excluded from your party full she has decided there is no place in the party for donald trump. that is the litmus test right now, is it? in my view there is a place in the republican party for donald trump. we will have this interview
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next year when we win. and how do you explain the fact... crosstalk. if the republican party does take over the house and we take over the senate is that a damning indictment of the american people? you would have it believe that... it may be that...'re voting for extremism, authoritarianism. that is a bunch of garbage. why has your party seemingly decided to fight a culture war against science? i'm thinking particularly of the handled covid—19. get vaccinated. what is your message to senior republicans who are actually fighting so—called mask mandates? if it was up to me and i am not a governor, i would like local communities decide whether or not a mask was appropriate for school at the workplace and all i can say about covid is the best thing going is the vaccine. it is not a mask. take the vaccine.
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anthony fauci said not so long ago that he believed donald trump's handling of covid had very likely cost many lives. you know, is biden�*s handling of covid costing many lives? is borisjohnson�*s handling of covid costing many lives? covid is a problem for the world writ large. the delta variant is coming back strong. there may be one behind it. all i would say is in terms of a worldwide pandemic it came out of china. i think it most likely came out of a lab. and the world is — the more vaccines we can get out the better. i would like to give more vaccines to africa. i think we don't do that we are all going to pay a heavy price. here is what is going to determine 2022 in the united states. this is hardtalk, right? your view of the american political system i think is not right. i think you're missing the elephant in the room.
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i think you don't quite understand the dynamic in america that the reason the republican party will come back is because the policy agenda of president biden has not worked. that the policy agenda president trump looks better by the day. that the average person doesn't see the republican party as some kind of extremist group of people waking up everyday trying to change america. i think that is the narrative that is being pushed that will not hold, will not stand the test of time. there was one of the specific area want to quickly touch on and that is the state of texas's decision to introduce a new abortion law which, in essence, would make unlawful any abortion after six weeks. now, this, to many americans, looks like a fundamental challenge to the roe v wade rights of women to get an abortion. it is. your party, it seems, wants to go out there and overturn a woman's right to an abortion. is that correct? that is right. the republican party believes that roe v wade, a judicial decision prohibiting
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elected representatives to have any say about the life issue was an overreach but by the court... this completed issue about when we should intervene, when should we stand up for the rights of the unborn, will take place if the court sets aside roe v wade. it will be a state decision. but what is not complicated is that poll after poll over many years shows majority of americans believe in a women's right to choose. your party seem to be determined to fight a cultural war on this issue. why? well, if you believe that life is sacred from the beginning to the end if you that the government should have some say about when life begins when it ends that were taken away by a court decision. i don't know what you believe about when we become who we are, at what point in time in the development of the human being that you actually have an individual identity.
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there are a lot of americans who are pro—choice and don't like the idea of late term abortion. right? later in the birthing process abortion becomes less popular. whether you like our position or not it is there. we have consistently said we thought roe v wade would be an overreach. we will see with the supreme court does and that will be on the ballot. i suppose my question is do you worry about the polarisation, the deep divisions in your country today? which, frankly, your party appears to be making deeper rather than attempting to breach? i think this idea that somehow the republican party is to blame for divisions in america by itself is ridiculous. i think the divisions... i ask challenging questions of democrats, too. but you need to think about your party and where you are going.
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i like where my party is at. we are going to win because our policies work. you keep coming back to we're going to win first up is there not something more important than winning? it's about maintaining america's freedoms, america's democracy and america's unity and are all there is not at stake today? you might have you been in america? that's a great question. people vote for you. the majority of the people say we like what you are doing. the republican party is only one one majority in a presidential election in 30 years. if you vote the republican party you are basically anti—american? that is garbage. you may not be a conservative person and it is 0k to be conservative. it's ok to stand up for the unborn if you really believe the unborn needs to be stood up for. it is ok in my view to have differences on all of these issues and i think the reason
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we are going to do well is becausejoe biden was not the guy people thought they voted for. i thinkjoe biden is a decent man. i have known for 20 years. the agenda coming out of the biden administration is far more radical than people thought. it's transforming america in a way that nobody, i think, at home, really wants. we are going to be not so much because of us, a lot to do with them. and a final question, we talked some about donald trump before. when you talk about winning as donald trump in your view going to the presidential candidate for your party in the next election and can hear and would he win? i think if he runs he will get the nomination stop do you want him to run? yes. i would liken to have another chance. if he runs he will win and the reason he will win is because most republicans, we all don't like the way he does it but we sort of like what he did that he actually did that thing that conservatives and in 2024 think it is more likely that trump
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will be on the ballot that may be biden. i don't knowjoe biden will run again but i think if he runs in 2024, the only way he can win is if we win in 2022 so here is what i would say. if you see the republican party take over the house and do well in the senate in 2022 that means 6january was not present trump's obituary. i keep telling this. the only way for him to be bible in the future is first win in 2022. talk about what you would do differently. how you would change the country vis—a—vis what biden is doing. help us pick the most competitive candidates who can win in the states that matter and they really are only a ha ndful of states. if president trump helps us as republicans regain the house and the senate than i think he, it is nomination if he wants it and i would say... you talk to him a lot. all the time. does he want to? yes, i don't want to speak
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for him but i think he has unfinished business and he believes policies he put in place worked for the country. and it is very upset by what he sees stage and mystically and i think the american people are going to have another say about donald trump. senator lindsey graham, sadly we're out of time. thank you very much. thank you. hello there. sunday was a warm, sunny day for most, hot for some along the south coast. we saw temperatures peaking at 27 celsius in west sussex — that's 80 fahrenheit. we haven't seen temperatures like that in england since the end ofjuly.
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now, there was some cloud around, and you can see in the highland, the cloud thick enough for some rain, some of it heavy at times. and in fact, that weather front still continues to bring some outbreaks of rain as it moves its way steadily south into the north of england. it is weakening off as it bumps into this area of high pressure, so a band of cloud and a few spots of rain towards dawn. a mild start for all, maybe some mist and fog lingering across south wales and southwest england. but once that lifts, there'll be plenty of sunshine for england and wales once again, and the temperatures are set to climb. even a weak weather front will start to ease away and some sunshine comes through eastern england and northeast scotland. a light breeze coming from a southerly direction. that means it's driving up that warm, dry air, so temperatures peaking potentially once again at 27 degrees. now, as we move out of monday into tuesday, still high pressure influencing the story, and as the winds move around in a clockwise direction, well, that means that the wind direction is coming from a southeasterly, driving in this warm, dry air from the near continent. in actual fact, with a little bit more of the breeze around potentially on tuesday, that's going to break up that cloud. the sunshine is going to be
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fairly widespread right across the country, bar the exception perhaps for the western isles. temperatures will be a little bit warmer in scotland, peaking at 25 celsius. we might see 28 or 29 somewhere across central or southern england. now, as we move out of tuesday into wednesday, again, still plenty of warm, sunny weather, but there is the potential for a few sharp, thundery showers towards the end of the day to develop down into the southwest, tied into another area of low pressure. so, here, not quite as warm, but again, we're still likely to see those temperatures peaking into the high 20s. that means that thursday will start to see a change as areas of low pressure move in off the atlantic, the wind direction changing once again and we'll see some outbreaks of rain. now, not widespread, but it does mean that there will be a change as we move towards the end of the week. so, turning from warmer weather
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into something cooler with rain from thursday.
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this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. in afghanistan, the leader of the resistance group fighting the taliban, says he's willing to enter peace talks. beyond kabul — we have a special report from rural afghanistan on life under the taliban. the families of victims of malaysia arlines flight mh17 shot down over ukraine are set to testify for the first time. football's world cup qualifier between brazil and argentina is dramatically abandoned after a row about covid quarantine rules. conjoined twins from israel see each other for the first time after a marathon operation to separate them.


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