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tv   Context  BBC News  February 7, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm GMT

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but we need to keep the are a threat but we need to keep the dialogue open, says mr scholz. much more on this, reaction to what has been said, coming up next in context with christian fraser. hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching context on bbc news. world leaders step up their efforts to reduce tensions over ukraine as fears of a russian invasion grow. french president emmanuel macron says he hopes that war can be avoided at a meeting with vladimir putin in moscow. harmony on health policy says borisjohnson, he denies the chancellor delayed a plan, to tackle long nhs waiting lists. police protect the labour leader keir starmer when he is surrounded by protesters shouting traitor. and two leading republican members of congress are reprimanded by the party leadership, for sitting on the panel investigating the january 6th attack on the us capitol. tonight with the context:
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sonia khan, former advisor to the uk treasury and doug heye, former communications director for the republican national committee. hello and welcome. the white house believes an invasion of ukraine could come "any day," and that once war begins, the capital city kyiv will fall in short order. the franco—german approach to this crisis is more nuanced than that. they don't believe the russian incursion is imminent, and in paris it would seem there is some sympathy with the security concerns vladimir putin has expressed. so, emmanuel macron headed to moscow today to see if he could reason with the russian president. the kremlin described mr macron as a quality interlocutor. though if the length of table between them is any metaphor for where these discussions have go to. we might well be in trouble. but every route, every
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option is being explored before heading to moscow, to meet president putin. the german, austrian, czech and slovak foreign ministers had travelled to ukraine. chancellor scholz was going the other way for talks at the white house, where there has barely disguised criticism of the german appeasement. also heading to washington the eu foreign policy chiefjosep borell, who's meeting us secretary of state anthony blinken. and finally the polish defense minister was here in the uk. as the first of 3000 us troops began arriving in south east poland. so, let me bring you some live pictures from the white house where pictures from the white house where president biden and mr scolz. let me bring in ben hodges, he says treatment at the centre for european
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policy, welcomes the programme. it's interesting that president macron is only present while the german chancellor has made himself conspicuously scarce in recent weeks. in fact he was described as nearly invisible, inaudible. i wonder whether you think this meeting today between president biden and chancellor scholz is important? i absolutely believe this is the more important one, because germany is our most important ally on the continent, properly one of the only capitals that can influence russian behaviour. i think it's great that president macron is standing up, versus some other message that might involve them president putin, meanwhile, president macron is running for president, in just a
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couple of months. chancellor scholz, new government, getting germany you can feel the ground shifting a little bit, and i think our german ally is strengthening and becoming more and more firm.— ally is strengthening and becoming more and more firm. come back to that in a second _ more and more firm. come back to that in a second i'm _ more and more firm. come back to that in a second i'm interested - more and more firm. come back to that in a second i'm interested in l that in a second i'm interested in what you said about president macron, because by all accounts he spoke to president biden yesterday, the might remark white house said they wanted to coordinate efforts. you might be a danger is freelancing here away from the american position? here away from the american osition? ~ �* , ., here away from the american position?— here away from the american osition? ~ �*, ., . position? well, it's not so much that he might — position? well, it's not so much that he might be _ position? well, it's not so much that he might be away - position? well, it's not so much that he might be away from - position? well, it's not so much - that he might be away from american position, but if there is any crack between united states and canada and our european allies on the fact that the kremlin is who has violated ukrainian sovereignty ever invaded in 2014, and if there is any
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pressure on ukraine because of something that france might be offering to the kremlin, that is outside of what we all have agreed, i think this is a problem. let outside of what we all have agreed, i think this is a problem.— i think this is a problem. let me read ou i think this is a problem. let me read you what — i think this is a problem. let me read you what president - i think this is a problem. let me read you what president macron j i think this is a problem. let me - read you what president macron said in the sunday newspapers, he said russia's geopolitical aims of the sea not ukraine but how moscow lives with nato and the eu. the security and sovereignty of ukraine and other european nations cannot be compromised in any way, just as it is legitimate for russia to raise theissue is legitimate for russia to raise the issue censored to be mac security concerns. clearly he thinks there is something further to be offered. do you think there is clarity there is needed for the russian side?— clarity there is needed for the russian side? , , ., . ., , russian side? first ible, france has been art russian side? first ible, france has been part the _ russian side? first ible, france has been part the normandy _ russian side? first ible, france has been part the normandy format - been part the normandy format process from the beginning, almost eight years ago, when ukraine's sovereignty was violated, you don't hear too much for coming from paris about how terrible it is, some a bit sceptical, to be honest. i would also say that the russian claim
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about their security being threatened by nato, of course this is a false claim, it is a total false narrative. the safest part of russia's border has been the part that touches nato. this is the one place where you could guarantee that they would never be attacked. no, look, i don't mean to imply anything thatis look, i don't mean to imply anything that is inappropriate by what president macron is doing, but i think i would like to be more confident that president biden, chancellor scholz, president macron, prime ministerjohnson and other leaders were 100% in agreement on the way ahead, and ijust don't have the way ahead, and ijust don't have the confidence right now. stat; the way ahead, and ijust don't have the confidence right now.— the confidence right now. stay with us if ou the confidence right now. stay with us if you were. _ the confidence right now. stay with us if you were, we _ the confidence right now. stay with us if you were, we have _ the confidence right now. stay with us if you were, we have a - the confidence right now. stay with us if you were, we have a split - us if you were, we have a split screen at the moment, we are looking at chancellor scholz and president biden in washington, we've also got pictures coming in now from moscow where vladimir putin is standing alongside emmanuel macron, so, to different press conferences on two different press conferences on two different issues, one trying to find
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a solution in moscow, the other trying to find an energy solution in washington, that's what i want to talk about, because that's what the conversation is about, european energy into how the united states might replace russian oil and gas if it comes with sanctions, and in germany in particular it is a national security issue. have a look at these numbers. currently, german stands at 45% full, down 9% capacity this time last year, i think we can bring the numbers, it imports most of the gas it consumes, 32% of the gas comes from russia, notjust gas its oil as well, crude oil, 34% of germany's crude oil comes from russia, other countries like italy depend on russian gas as well, let's talk to our panel that. doug, that
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deliver they same saying we need to find some way to replace russian oil and gas could comedy this is a problem in the making?- and gas could comedy this is a problem in the making? yes, these are very complicated _ problem in the making? yes, these are very complicated problems - are very complicated problems without easy solutions, something we are dealing _ without easy solutions, something we are dealing with domestically and internationally, as you get into these — internationally, as you get into these situations, the general probably knows more than i do when you have _ probably knows more than i do when you have a _ probably knows more than i do when you have a foreign aggressor, that is the _ you have a foreign aggressor, that is the net — you have a foreign aggressor, that is the net exporter of energy, what their actions are becoming notjust much _ their actions are becoming notjust much more — their actions are becoming notjust much more important, but also they think— much more important, but also they think they— much more important, but also they think they have more than they otherwise — think they have more than they otherwise would do, that's why you see frank_ otherwise would do, that's why you see frank step into the vacuum a little _ see frank step into the vacuum a little bit — see frank step into the vacuum a little bit in — see frank step into the vacuum a little bit. , ., little bit. in terms of the policies. _ little bit. in terms of the policies, does _ little bit. in terms of the policies, does the - little bit. in terms of the i policies, does the president little bit. in terms of the - policies, does the president have options? is gas and oil something they could supply to the europeans to fill the void?— to fill the void? well, we could su -l to fill the void? well, we could supply some. _ to fill the void? well, we could supply some. it _ to fill the void? well, we could supply some, it wouldn't - to fill the void? well, we could supply some, it wouldn't fill. to fill the void? well, we could | supply some, it wouldn't fill the void~ _ supply some, it wouldn't fill the void~ one — supply some, it wouldn't fill the void. one of the first things that president — void. one of the first things that president biden did which caused some _ president biden did which caused some controversy was to stop any movement— some controversy was to stop any movement on the keystone pipeline
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which _ movement on the keystone pipeline which was _ movement on the keystone pipeline which was a union job project that was going — which was a union job project that was going to deliver more oil to the united _ was going to deliver more oil to the united states, and as we are trying to not— united states, and as we are trying to notjust — united states, and as we are trying to notjust be self—sufficient but an exporter, it is where we can help. _ an exporter, it is where we can help. we — an exporter, it is where we can help, we cannot solve your applause problems, and obviously there is applausr — problems, and obviously there is a lot going _ problems, and obviously there is a lot going on in europe right now there _ lot going on in europe right now there is— lot going on in europe right now there is notjust about ukraine and russia, _ there is notjust about ukraine and russia, writtenjust there is notjust about ukraine and russia, written just about there is notjust about ukraine and russia, writtenjust about france and their— russia, writtenjust about france and their elections, or a russia, writtenjust about france and their elections, ora new chancellor in germany, it's possible to mix _ chancellor in germany, it's possible to mix it— chancellor in germany, it's possible to mix it so— chancellor in germany, it's possible to mix it so compared to the multitiered.— to mix it so compared to the multitiered. ., , , multitiered. sonia, you can see why he wants to — multitiered. sonia, you can see why he wants to be _ multitiered. sonia, you can see why he wants to be a _ multitiered. sonia, you can see why he wants to be a key _ multitiered. sonia, you can see why he wants to be a key part _ multitiered. sonia, you can see why he wants to be a key part of- multitiered. sonia, you can see why he wants to be a key part of this, i he wants to be a key part of this, to three mightjust out from the french election, it must be tantalising to go to moscow for a solution. ., ., tantalising to go to moscow for a solution. . ., ., , solution. yeah, and in europe there is a level of— solution. yeah, and in europe there is a level of scarring _ solution. yeah, and in europe there is a level of scarring by _ solution. yeah, and in europe there is a level of scarring by what - solution. yeah, and in europe there is a level of scarring by what some l is a level of scarring by what some people _ is a level of scarring by what some people would _ is a level of scarring by what some people would perceive _ is a level of scarring by what some people would perceive a _ is a level of scarring by what some people would perceive a strong's l people would perceive a strong's unilateralism, _ people would perceive a strong's unilateralism, they'll— people would perceive a strong's unilateralism, they'll looking - people would perceive a strong's unilateralism, they'll looking at. unilateralism, they'll looking at the us— unilateralism, they'll looking at the us by— unilateralism, they'll looking at the us by actually— unilateralism, they'll looking at the us by actually negotiating i unilateralism, they'll looking at. the us by actually negotiating with putin at—
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the us by actually negotiating with putin at the — the us by actually negotiating with putin at the start _ the us by actually negotiating with putin at the start of _ the us by actually negotiating with putin at the start of the _ the us by actually negotiating with putin at the start of the crisis, - putin at the start of the crisis, afghanistan _ putin at the start of the crisis, afghanistan comes— putin at the start of the crisis, afghanistan comes to - putin at the start of the crisis, afghanistan comes to mind, . putin at the start of the crisis, i afghanistan comes to mind, so putin at the start of the crisis, . afghanistan comes to mind, so i think— afghanistan comes to mind, so i think definitely— afghanistan comes to mind, so i think definitely for— afghanistan comes to mind, so i think definitely for the _ afghanistan comes to mind, so i think definitely for the french i think definitely for the french president. _ think definitely for the french president, this _ think definitely for the french president, this is _ think definitely for the french president, this is one - think definitely for the french president, this is one of- think definitely for the french president, this is one of the l president, this is one of the driving _ president, this is one of the driving factors. _ president, this is one of the driving factors. i— president, this is one of the driving factors. i think- president, this is one of the driving factors. i think alsol president, this is one of the - driving factors. i think also some of the _ driving factors. i think also some of the instability— driving factors. i think also some of the instability is _ driving factors. i think also some of the instability is caused - driving factors. i think also some of the instability is caused by- driving factors. i think also some of the instability is caused by the fact that — of the instability is caused by the fact that there _ of the instability is caused by the fact that there is _ of the instability is caused by the fact that there is a _ of the instability is caused by the fact that there is a perception . of the instability is caused by the. fact that there is a perception that us team _ fact that there is a perception that us team much _ fact that there is a perception that us team much more _ fact that there is a perception that us team much more united - fact that there is a perception that us team much more united whenl fact that there is a perception thati us team much more united when it comes— us team much more united when it comes to _ us team much more united when it comes to economic— us team much more united when it comes to economic sanctions - us team much more united when it comes to economic sanctions are l us team much more united when it| comes to economic sanctions are at least _ comes to economic sanctions are at least taking — comes to economic sanctions are at least taking that _ comes to economic sanctions are at least taking that sort _ comes to economic sanctions are at least taking that sort of _ comes to economic sanctions are at least taking that sort of package - least taking that sort of package delegates — least taking that sort of package delegates to _ least taking that sort of package delegates to the _ least taking that sort of package delegates to the worst - least taking that sort of packagej delegates to the worst scenario, whereas— delegates to the worst scenario, whereas we _ delegates to the worst scenario, whereas we are _ delegates to the worst scenario, whereas we are not _ delegates to the worst scenario, whereas we are not quite - delegates to the worst scenario, whereas we are not quite there. delegates to the worst scenario, i whereas we are not quite there in europe _ whereas we are not quite there in euro e. �* , ., whereas we are not quite there in euroe. v ., , whereas we are not quite there in euroe. �*, . , whereas we are not quite there in euroe. v ., , ., europe. it's a very good point sonia makes, europe. it's a very good point sonia makes. the — europe. it's a very good point sonia makes, the europeans _ europe. it's a very good point sonia makes, the europeans feel - europe. it's a very good point sonia makes, the europeans feel they - europe. it's a very good point sonia i makes, the europeans feel they have been overlooked for a long time when it comes to their own security, this is president macron pushing back a little. ~ ~ , little. well, look, most americans would welcome _ little. well, look, most americans would welcome our _ little. well, look, most americans would welcome our european - little. well, look, most americansl would welcome our european allies little. well, look, most americans - would welcome our european allies to step up and assert more authority, but i would say this, the biden administration has done more comprehensive and intensive diplomacy in this case over the past several months, i think, then i've seen since 1995 in the dayton peace accord, working with people with
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lots of different agendas, attacks on your plasma criticism, and for sure, in the beginning, it looked like it was going to be just sure, in the beginning, it looked like it was going to bejust us — russia, which is exactly what the kremlin once. we are in a place now, really, chancellor scholz has a chance now i think not only to make a huge difference in the situation but also shore up his own standing backin but also shore up his own standing back in berlin. tote but also shore up his own standing back in berlin.— but also shore up his own standing back in berlin. we know the russian state media — back in berlin. we know the russian state media has _ back in berlin. we know the russian state media has focused _ back in berlin. we know the russian state media has focused a _ back in berlin. we know the russian state media has focused a lot - back in berlin. we know the russian state media has focused a lot on - back in berlin. we know the russian| state media has focused a lot on the threat that nato poses in russia, we don't perhaps focus enough on the internal politics and the decisions putin is taken, that's talk to someone whose research involves the soviet states. pick up the point that their general was making, clearly americans have been taking
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the lead. europeans now coming to the lead. europeans now coming to the fore, macon and moscow at the moment talking about what security things they might offer, but at the end of the day, it is the united states that runs nato, or as a senior partner in nato, and if there is going to be a solution clearly the russians need to be talking to americans, don't they? that the russians need to be talking to americans, don't they?— americans, don't they? at some oint, americans, don't they? at some point. yes. _ americans, don't they? at some point. yes. and _ americans, don't they? at some point, yes, and that _ americans, don't they? at some point, yes, and that has - americans, don't they? at some point, yes, and that has to - americans, don't they? at some point, yes, and that has to do i americans, don't they? at some l point, yes, and that has to do with russian _ point, yes, and that has to do with russian threat perceptions from moscow. — russian threat perceptions from moscow, its united states and the military— moscow, its united states and the military capabilities that keep focus on the russian stuff up at night _ focus on the russian stuff up at night as— focus on the russian stuff up at night as much as anything else, so yes, some — night as much as anything else, so yes, some point the us or the party if this— yes, some point the us or the party if this is— yes, some point the us or the party if this is going to be a settlement, that said. — if this is going to be a settlement, that said, the european allies can play important roles in all of this, so, in _ play important roles in all of this, so, in that— play important roles in all of this, so, in that context, as long as there — so, in that context, as long as there is— so, in that context, as long as there is coordination, micron's initiative — there is coordination, micron's initiative can certainly be useful.
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can we _ initiative can certainly be useful. can we talk about the internal politics? do we get any clues as to what the generals and the professional rank—and—file in russia think about all of this, and the amount of forces that they have piled up around the ukraine? weill. piled up around the ukraine? well, we've seen — piled up around the ukraine? well, we've seen some _ piled up around the ukraine? well, we've seen some interesting - we've seen some interesting reporting in recent days, just today there's— reporting in recent days, just today there's been reporting apparently there's been reporting apparently the us— there's been reporting apparently the us government has gotten wind of some russian military officials expressing concern about the ability of the _ expressing concern about the ability of the russian military to sustain the post—combat initiative within ukraine, — the post—combat initiative within ukraine, you know, occupation and the resources that would require, and you _ the resources that would require, and you read the russian strategic community and it seems, eh, that they are _ community and it seems, eh, that they are kept out of the loop on this, _ they are kept out of the loop on this, the — they are kept out of the loop on this, the ones that write to the public, — this, the ones that write to the public, and be that none of them, at
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least _ public, and be that none of them, at least the _ public, and be that none of them, at least the ones that, you know, have the most _ least the ones that, you know, have the most serious reputations, are calling _ the most serious reputations, are calling for— the most serious reputations, are calling for war with ukraine, interestingly. now, that doesn't mean _ interestingly. now, that doesn't mean it— interestingly. now, that doesn't mean it will not happen, itjust means— mean it will not happen, itjust means top— mean it will not happen, itjust means top market underscores the extent _ means top market underscores the extent to _ means top market underscores the extent to which the political leadership is conducting this has come _ leadership is conducting this has come overtly, from the public, and even _ come overtly, from the public, and even the _ come overtly, from the public, and even the elites, is possible. do you aet even the elites, is possible. do you net the even the elites, is possible. do you get the reports _ even the elites, is possible. do you get the reports that _ even the elites, is possible. do you get the reports that i've _ even the elites, is possible. do you get the reports that i've seen, - even the elites, is possible. do you get the reports that i've seen, that| get the reports that i've seen, that most of them are professional soldiers and we know that after the last 20 years or so russia has built up last 20 years or so russia has built up quite a formidable army military operation, but are you starting to hear reports that there are conscripts going to the front line? well, there are legal strictures there. — well, there are legal strictures there, some of which of course have been _ there, some of which of course have been broken — there, some of which of course have been broken in the past, about what
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conscripts _ been broken in the past, about what conscripts can and cannot be involved _ conscripts can and cannot be involved in. they are either not supposed — involved in. they are either not supposed to be involved abroad, i havent— supposed to be involved abroad, i haven't seen confirmed reports to that effect, i think we've seen a lot of— that effect, i think we've seen a lot of moving around of units from very far— lot of moving around of units from very far away from ukraine where the units are _ very far away from ukraine where the units are staffed by contract servicemen, which suggests that the russian _ servicemen, which suggests that the russian military is trying to avoid the use _ russian military is trying to avoid the use of— russian military is trying to avoid the use of conscripts, but also because — the use of conscripts, but also because they're properly not very capable _ because they're properly not very capable units, the ones that are staffed — capable units, the ones that are staffed by— capable units, the ones that are staffed by conscripts, given that russia _ staffed by conscripts, given that russia operates a 12 month conscription now that'sjust not adequate — conscription now that'sjust not adequate to produce capable units based _ adequate to produce capable units based on — adequate to produce capable units based on those conscripts, so so far ithink— based on those conscripts, so so far i think there — based on those conscripts, so so far i think there has been a lot of movement in order to bring the contract — movement in order to bring the contract soldiers to the front line. 0k, contract soldiers to the front line. 0k. we _ contract soldiers to the front line. 0k. we are — contract soldiers to the front line. 0k, we are keeping our eye across those two press conferences ongoing at the moment. we will bring you excerpts from those press conferences, but for the moment,
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thank you very much indeed for joining us. this is context on the bbc. still to come... we'll look at boris johnson's attempt to reset his leadership — it may have already hit a snag. let's look at some of the other stories making headlines today. a 19 year—old has admitted killing his teenage sister in a caravan on the north wales coast. 15 year—old amanda selby died at the ty mawr holiday park near abergele in north wales last summer. her brother matthew selby was due to stand trial for murder, but has pleaded guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. the footballer mason greenwood has been dropped by nike following his arrest on suspicion of rape and assault. the manchester united player was released on bail last week. the club has previously said he was suspended from training and playing untilfurther notice. fines imposed by private car park operators are to be capped at £50, in most areas of england, scotland and wales — under a new government
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code of conduct. higher penalties will remain for more serious parking breaches and in london. the number of private parking fines hasjumped in recent years from around one million in 2010 to 8.4 million by 2020. the opposition leader sir keir starmer was bundled into a police car this evening for his own safety, after he was surrounded by a mob protesting against vaccines and lockdown. the footage posted to social media appeared to show a crowd of demonstrators surrounding sir keir on the victoria embankment, some of them chanting "traitor". another protestor shouted that sir keir was "protecting paedophiles". last week boris johnson accused the labour leader of having used his time as head of the crown prosecution service to go afterjournalists and "failing to prosecute jimmy savile", comments that were widely criticised. in fact, one of mrjohsons' most loyal advisors,
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number 10's head of policy munira mirza, quit over what she described as "scurrilous accusations". a number of mps have tweeted about this. labour mp chris bryant said: "this is what happens when a prime minister descends into the gutter and recycles lies from hard—right conspiracy theorists." tory mpjulian smith agreed. "it is really important for our democracy and for his security that the false savile slurs made against him are withdrawn in full." sonia, the government were digging in yesterday. there is still no apology from the prime minister. his new communications director is a pr expert, and he will know that the best way to end a crisis like this is just to apologise and get rid of it. why is he refusing to do so? i think one of the big reasons is
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that, firstly, to apologise, you have to mean it, you have to do in good time, and there has to be a level of expectation that you won't engage in that behaviour again, and he cannot guarantee that will not happen. i think it's important to remember that during prime minister's questions, it is all about shoring up your own base, and the personal attacks went very well at least in his own chamber, citing at least in his own chamber, citing a temptation not to say something to take the tactic this far, but to take the tactic this far, but to take three might come up with the help of truth or something hard—hitting will be there, that's probably the reason why, because it's notjust about probably the reason why, because it's not just about apologising for the remark, it's about apologising for the very personal approach in which was made. let for the very personal approach in which was made.— for the very personal approach in which was made. , ., ,. which was made. let me put on screen the prime minister's _ which was made. let me put on screen the prime minister's tweet _ which was made. let me put on screen the prime minister's tweet this - the prime minister's tweet this evening. but no referencing that tweet to his comments last night week about keir
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starmer�*s role in thejimmy savile affair. the former president donald trump would never apologise. do you think an apology from politicians works, and is overdue?- works, and is overdue? well, they certainly don't _ works, and is overdue? well, they certainly don't happen _ works, and is overdue? well, they certainly don't happen by - works, and is overdue? well, they certainly don't happen by and - certainly don't happen by and large in politics— certainly don't happen by and large in politics anywhere any more. i think it — in politics anywhere any more. i think it is — in politics anywhere any more. i think it is usually the smart thing to do— think it is usually the smart thing to do to — think it is usually the smart thing to do to move ahead and just try and put it— to do to move ahead and just try and put it behind — to do to move ahead and just try and put it behind you as best you can. obviously— put it behind you as best you can. obviously here we don't have a system — obviously here we don't have a system like premises questions where you know— system like premises questions where you know the opposition will be able to bring _ you know the opposition will be able to bring up— you know the opposition will be able to bring up directly to you. perhaps they are _ to bring up directly to you. perhaps they are waiting for that. we see they are waiting for that. we see the same — they are waiting for that. we see the same headlines you do, and odyssey— the same headlines you do, and odyssey borisjohnson the same headlines you do, and odyssey boris johnson makes the same headlines you do, and odyssey borisjohnson makes in his reverie _ odyssey borisjohnson makes in his reverie goes, makes news internationally, so as i see what is going _ internationally, so as i see what is going on— internationally, so as i see what is going on over the past few weeks, you have _ going on over the past few weeks, you have an— going on over the past few weeks, you have an opportunity now, you should _ you have an opportunity now, you should view — you have an opportunity now, you should view this now for opportunity staff changes to break new ground, start a _ staff changes to break new ground, start a new — staff changes to break new ground, start a new and to move forward. this allows — start a new and to move forward. this allows you to do so and we will 'ust this allows you to do so and we will just have _ this allows you to do so and we will just have to— this allows you to do so and we will just have to see how the prime minister— just have to see how the prime minister moves forward this, but i
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tell you _ minister moves forward this, but i tell you i— minister moves forward this, but i tell you i remembera minister moves forward this, but i tell you i remember a conversation i had with— tell you i remember a conversation i had with somebody was a former government official in the london back in— government official in the london back in september who is not a boris johnson _ back in september who is not a boris johnson fan. — back in september who is not a boris johnson fan, that they gave me ten minutes— johnson fan, that they gave me ten minutes why didn't boris johnson, they say, — minutes why didn't boris johnson, they say, but here's the thing, he's they say, but here's the thing, he's the best— they say, but here's the thing, he's the best politician in the country, and he _ the best politician in the country, and he knows how to win, so is someone — and he knows how to win, so is someone who wouldn't count boris johnson _ someone who wouldn't count boris johnson out, and as you seem, this is what _ johnson out, and as you seem, this is what the — johnson out, and as you seem, this is what the prime minister's role allows you — is what the prime minister's role allows you to do, you can set the agenda _ allows you to do, you can set the agenda to— allows you to do, you can set the agenda to a — allows you to do, you can set the agenda to a certain extent. when you see boris— agenda to a certain extent. when you see borisjohnson go agenda to a certain extent. when you see boris johnson go to agenda to a certain extent. when you see borisjohnson go to ukraine, when _ see borisjohnson go to ukraine, when he — see borisjohnson go to ukraine, when he seemed visit nih centres and meet with— when he seemed visit nih centres and meet with patients and doctors, that allows— meet with patients and doctors, that allows him _ meet with patients and doctors, that allows him to steer the conversation to some _ allows him to steer the conversation to some extent amorphous favourable position— to some extent amorphous favourable position for— to some extent amorphous favourable position for him. expect to see more of that _ position for him. expect to see more of that. �* , ., ~ position for him. expect to see more of that. �*, ., ,, ., position for him. expect to see more ofthat. �*, ., ,, ., , of that. let's talk about the staff chan . es, of that. let's talk about the staff changes, because _ of that. let's talk about the staff changes, because he _ of that. let's talk about the staff changes, because he is - of that. let's talk about the staff. changes, because he is continuing of that. let's talk about the staff - changes, because he is continuing to ring the changes in downing street as he tries to reassure backbenchers things will improve. guto harri arrived, carrying a bag of bottled water — a not—so subtle nod to the drinking culture now on its way out. and ahead of his first day in thejob, guto gave an interview in which he said the boss
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was "likeable and not a complete clown". he also revealed that when he arrived in the office he saluted borisjohson and asked him if he was likely to survive, at which point the pm broke into some gloria gaynor. it will not have escaped your attention — at least i hope it hasn't — that up until this weekend, guto harri had a very unlucrative contract working with us o n co ntext. this is what he said about the pm two weeks ago, on his first appearance on this show. he was clearly able to see what the rest of us see, that it was a horrendous situation, even more embarrassing once you bring the queen into it. it's a convention on all sides that that takes it to another level again. but i think he's mainly suffering because he knows that this is something that has really annoyed people across the united kingdom, and people who were prepared to take a punt on him, people who would never have trusted the conservatives, but who were prepared to vote for a party led by him that they thought somehow was a different party. so, it's genuine, it's heartfelt, i think, and he is in a very tight corner, and he knows
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that he is literally fighting for his life. i don't know about you, i think that sounds like he is interviewing for a job. did he already know? do sounds like he is interviewing for a job. did he already know?- job. did he already know? do you know, i job. did he already know? do you know. i have _ job. did he already know? do you know, i have no _ job. did he already know? do you know, i have no idea! _ job. did he already know? do you know, i have no idea! white - job. did he already know? do you know, i have no idea! white back| job. did he already know? do you i know, i have no idea! white back he was most forceful in his support when we had a man on thursday, let me tell you. is when we had a man on thursday, let me tell you-— me tell you. is returned to us olitics, me tell you. is returned to us politics, because _ let's turn to us politics because the republican national committee — that is the political body that steers the management of the republican party, which took measures to censure two of its own members: congressman adam kinzinger of illinois and congresswoman liz cheney of wyoming. the one thing these two lawmakers have in common? is that they both sit on the committee that's investigating the january sixth attack on the capitol. in fact, they're the only two republicans. and that doesn't sit well with top leadership in the party. on friday, the rnc passed a resolution: representatives cheney and kinzinger, it said,
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"are participating in a democrat—led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse, and they are both utilizing their past professed political affiliation to mask democrat abuse of prosecutorial power for partisan purposes". a reminder that doug heye was in 2010 the communications directorfor the rnc. i may do which are made of that statement. it i may do which are made of that statement-— i may do which are made of that statement. ., ., statement. it reminded me of what it was like when — statement. it reminded me of what it was like when i _ statement. it reminded me of what it was like when i was _ statement. it reminded me of what it was like when i was there, _ statement. it reminded me of what it was like when i was there, 2010 - statement. it reminded me of what it was like when i was there, 2010 was | was like when i was there, 2010 was a year— was like when i was there, 2010 was a year we _ was like when i was there, 2010 was a year we took back the house of representatives, we won 63 seats, so fairly similar— representatives, we won 63 seats, so fairly similarto representatives, we won 63 seats, so fairly similar to how this election year might be shaping up. whenever we took— year might be shaping up. whenever we took the eye of the ball, whenever we took ourselves the story rather _ whenever we took ourselves the story rather than _ whenever we took ourselves the story rather than focusing on the gender of the _ rather than focusing on the gender of the democratic president, we had a bad _ of the democratic president, we had a bad day, _ of the democratic president, we had a bad day, this was a bad day the republican— a bad day, this was a bad day the republican national committee because they made themselves the story, _ because they made themselves the story, they took their eye off the ball in— story, they took their eye off the ball in the — story, they took their eye off the ball in the media attention away from _ ball in the media attention away from rising violent crime, inflation, _ from rising violent crime, inflation, president whose population is about 42, 30 9%
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depending on which pole you look at, where _ depending on which pole you look at, where a _ depending on which pole you look at, where a large majority of voters think— where a large majority of voters think we — where a large majority of voters think we are moving in the wrong direction, — think we are moving in the wrong direction, is— think we are moving in the wrong direction, is the problem. the other problem _ direction, is the problem. the other problem with it is obviously the rhetoric— problem with it is obviously the rhetoric that you just read, that is this kind — rhetoric that you just read, that is this kind of— rhetoric that you just read, that is this kind of star warsjedi mind trick— this kind of star warsjedi mind trick of— this kind of star warsjedi mind trick of let's pretend this gas lighting _ trick of let's pretend this gas lighting actually never happened, these _ lighting actually never happened, these aren't the joints you're looking — these aren't the joints you're looking for, but we had in generally six to— looking for, but we had in generally six to somehow assuage or move on, that's— six to somehow assuage or move on, that's four~ _ six to somehow assuage or move on, that's four. the six to somehow assuage or move on, that's four-— that's four. the problem is, if you want to stand _ that's four. the problem is, if you want to stand as _ that's four. the problem is, if you want to stand as a _ that's four. the problem is, if you want to stand as a primary - that's four. the problem is, if you want to stand as a primary for - that's four. the problem is, if you want to stand as a primary for the rnc, you have to deny that january six took place, and you have to believe in the fact that the election was stolen. it's not a good place to be. it’s election was stolen. it's not a good place to be— place to be. it's not, and keep in mind this — place to be. it's not, and keep in mind this is _ place to be. it's not, and keep in mind this is a _ place to be. it's not, and keep in mind this is a rule _ place to be. it's not, and keep in mind this is a rule change - place to be. it's not, and keep in mind this is a rule change that i place to be. it's not, and keep in. mind this is a rule change that the rnc, _ mind this is a rule change that the rnc. they— mind this is a rule change that the rnc, they are not allowed to meddle in primary— rnc, they are not allowed to meddle in primary is in a sea change rules, which _ in primary is in a sea change rules, which is _ in primary is in a sea change rules, which is what — in primary is in a sea change rules, which is what it did in this case liz cheney _ which is what it did in this case liz cheney. to which is what it did in this case liz cheney-—
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coming up, we will be talking about an american doctor. hello, we started the week on a positively springlike notes with temperatures across the uk and the flowers seem to have got the message based on many of our weather watcher images. the story for the week ahead is not a particularly springlike one, is a days go by we will a chilly see this weather system here to the north advancing a weather front, which is advancing a weather front, which is a streak of cloud we saw the behind me, further south across the uk, blue triangles indicating it is a cold weather front, to the north of it, arctic commons on monday we started off on atlantic air, that's why relatively mild, but is this whole system pushes its way south through the course of the week, we will end up eventually and this much
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colder up to care. to take us into the small hours of tuesday, it stays miles across england and wales, overnight lows somewhere around 7-9 . overnight lows somewhere around 7—9 . so mine in northern england, limited frost, temperatures down the lower end of single figures. the weather front only slowly sinking south through tuesday. i think quite a lot of brightness for england and wales and it will feel mild if not perhaps warm in the sunshine. temperatures 13—14. cloud still bothering northern england, range from western slopes, northern ireland are emerging into some sunshine later, perhaps cumbria two, scotland a bright day, but breezy across the board, cheesy dream a chilly for scotland, perhaps gale force in the finals to scotland. until wednesday our weather front starts to his bright south a bit faster, notice of showers to the northern uk is increasingly white,
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arctic air really biting across scotland, could see some significant snow showers pushing through on the weasly wind with some accumulations, certainly will feel colder with temperatures noticing to the far south of modric klingon. one sensitive state history, the arctic air goes all the way down to the continent. we need to keep a close eye on that little low wednesday into thursday, that could make for some very strong winds across scotland and maybe even drop some heavy snowfall here, and by the end of the reader should be a lot of sunshine around, letterman is on friday but certainly a colder story for all of us.
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hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching context on bbc news. how do hospitals rebound from the pandemic with such a backlog of surgeries? operations by the atlantic are being postponed and thatis atlantic are being postponed and that is having a lasting impact on patients and medical professionals alike. —— on both sides of the atlantic. truckers protesting covered vaccine mandates: canada to end, after the city's mayor declared a state of emergency. and the boss of spotify condemns racial slurs made by controversial podcasterjoe rogan — but stops short of removing him from the platform. tonight with the context, sonia khan, former advisor to the uk treasury and doug heye, former communications director for
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the republican national committee. if you live in england and have had an elective surgery scheduled in the past two years, there's a good chance it's been postponed. there are currently six million people on nhs waiting lists in england. one in twenty of those people were waiting more than a year for help, and around 18,500 have been waiting more than two years to be seen. details of a wide—ranging plan from nhs england to tackle the backlog was meant to be published today — but at the last minute the treasury intervened and refused to sign off the plans. there were concerns over value for money after previous deadlines for hitting treatment targets slipped as a result of a spike in omicron infections. the chair of the health select committee, jeremy hunt, said it was alarming the plan had been delayed and over the issue of targets. here he is speaking the bbc�*s world at one. frankly, the last thing the nhs needs right now is additional targets. they have more targets in the nhs
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than any other health care system anywhere in the world. they�* re often counter—productive. but it is notjust the uk sinking under a backlog of elective surgery. in america, nearly half of us states announced they would postpone operations — among them new york, illinois, and massachusetts, that have all implemented or recommended state—wide delays. dr anand swaminathan is an emergency medicine physician in newjersey and joins us now. tell me about the sort of effect that covid has had an elective surgery where you are. it’s that covid has had an elective surgery where you are. it's had a massive effect _ surgery where you are. it's had a massive effect throughout - surgery where you are. it's had a massive effect throughout the i massive effect throughout the pandemic, notjust in the last couple of months but really throughout, seeing a lot of these surgeries being put off, and people hear the word elective, i think the terminology is a bit off here. these are any procedure that is not an absolute emergency but they are necessary. elective does not equal unnecessary. we are talking about
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kids who have congenital heart defects that don't need the surgery right now but they need it pretty soon. we are talking about people with gall bladder infection is a need gall bladder taken out. there are semi—different things that full under the umbrella of elective. and putting those surgeries of the other does harm to patients, it means we are not able to deliver the best care to the patients we see, which we are not used to, we are trying as hard as we can but without beds, that stuff for the beds, we can't take patients to the operating room, and that delay and care is a backlog i'm not sure we can really ever catch up on or when we will be able to catch up on it.— catch up on or when we will be able to catch up on it. we've delayed the lan here to catch up on it. we've delayed the plan here in — to catch up on it. we've delayed the plan here in england _ to catch up on it. we've delayed the plan here in england today - to catch up on it. we've delayed the plan here in england today to - to catch up on it. we've delayed the plan here in england today to get i to catch up on it. we've delayed the | plan here in england today to get on top of the backlog because there is disagreement over the targets and how to fund the targets. does delaying it exacerbate the problem? does it lead to greater numbers, does the cost go up the longer that you failed to tackle the backlog?
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absolutely. i think we do need an organised way to approach this. in the us we don't have a nationalised health care system which means we don't have a national plan to address all of those cases. our system, and really, our system is broken in so many different ways, this isjust another broken in so many different ways, this is just another example of how our system doesn't work very well, especially when we look at the fact that a lot of hospitals rely on these procedures to stay afloat. without that money coming in they have a hard time making payroll and keeping the building together. we need those surgeries to happen, the whole health care industry needs them just as much as the individual patient�*s needs this procedure done, and even now, even as omicron starts to subside where i am, it's hard to mmp to subside where i am, it's hard to ramp up those procedures because so many health care workers are out sick or have disability related to getting covid, so we have so many different issues in trying to get those rescheduled and the longer we put them off, the harder it is going to be to make them up and the worse
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it is going to be for patients. you talked about _ it is going to be for patients. you talked about the _ it is going to be for patients. you talked about the different health care system and ijust wanted to drive at home for people, figures are hard to come by but i look back at the first wave of the omicron, sorry, of the covid virus, the first wave back in 2020, and us hospitals altogether lost and estimated $22 billion in the three months, that's an enormous slug of money. that goes on starting, on beds, and properties, does it also go on research, on tackling future rises in infection? —— staffing and beds and properties. it in infection? -- staffing and beds and properties-— and properties. it goes on all of these things — and properties. it goes on all of these things all _ and properties. it goes on all of these things all these _ and properties. it goes on all of these things all these pieces i and properties. it goes on all of| these things all these pieces will be hugely impacted, and it really should be an impetus for us to overhaul our system, to look towards a better system, and that is able to be flexible. we have learned over the last two years with this pandemic that the us system lacks flexibility in all different facets, whether it be the health care system, a public health system, and
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without investing properly and looking at that system and saying, how does it need to function for the people it serves? we are going to be in the same place again and again and again. we have a very inflexible system that isn't really able to adapt to these challenges. star; system that isn't really able to adapt to these challenges. stay with us, if ou adapt to these challenges. stay with us. if you would. — adapt to these challenges. stay with us, if you would, i— adapt to these challenges. stay with us, if you would, i would _ adapt to these challenges. stay with us, if you would, i would like - adapt to these challenges. stay with us, if you would, i would like you i us, if you would, i would like you to take part in our discussion about this. let me bring you in, sonia, on this. let me bring you in, sonia, on this. i want to talk about the uk treasury's decision, since you formerly worked at the treasury. there is some reporting that the treasury is slow walking this because they think that there is a dying administration, because boris johnson might be on his way out, they don't want to commit to a list of spending targets now, a scale of ambition they might not agree with when he is a dead man walking, what do you think? i when he is a dead man walking, what do you think?— do you think? i really recognise that situation _ do you think? i really recognise that situation because - do you think? i really recognise that situation because it - do you think? i really recognise that situation because it felt. do you think? i really recognise| that situation because it felt like that situation because it felt like that in— that situation because it felt like that in the last kind of year when theresa — that in the last kind of year when theresa may was in government, there was a _ theresa may was in government, there was a strong _ theresa may was in government, there was a strong view in the treasure that this —
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was a strong view in the treasure that this wasn't money from the current— that this wasn't money from the current prime minister, it was from the next _ current prime minister, it was from the next prime minister, so they would _ the next prime minister, so they would stay everything. but the situation — would stay everything. but the situation was very different then, that a _ situation was very different then, that a leader ship election had started — that a leader ship election had started and we weren't years after covid, _ started and we weren't years after covid, so — started and we weren't years after covid, so i — started and we weren't years after covid, so i am surprised by this decision— covid, so i am surprised by this decision by— covid, so i am surprised by this decision by the treasury, not least because _ decision by the treasury, not least because there's rumours of rishi sunak— because there's rumours of rishi sunak now— because there's rumours of rishi sunak now having billions of pounds to potentially play with of a spring statement and he hasn't chosen to spend _ statement and he hasn't chosen to spend it _ statement and he hasn't chosen to spend it on — statement and he hasn't chosen to spend it on levelling up, we saw that white — spend it on levelling up, we saw that white paper, with very little new funding committed to it, package around _ new funding committed to it, package around energy which is essentially all loans, — all loans, so he hasn't chosen to spend it there, so what's the treasury— spend it there, so what's the treasury waiting for? and as we heal’, _ treasury waiting for? and as we hear. it— treasury waiting for? and as we hear. it will— treasury waiting for? and as we hear, it will only exacerbate the problems — hear, it will only exacerbate the problems of so you would think from a value _ problems of so you would think from a value for— problems of so you would think from a value for money perspective, if you're _ a value for money perspective, if you're going to be quite cold about how you _ you're going to be quite cold about how you approach it, you're either going _ how you approach it, you're either going to _ how you approach it, you're either going to spend money now or spend more _ going to spend money now or spend more down — going to spend money now or spend more down the line, so i think it's very— more down the line, so i think it's very strange — more down the line, so i think it's very strange that looks like a political _ very strange that looks like a political choice more than anything else _ political choice more than anything else. ., �* ., ., , ., .,
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else. you're not the only one to say that, a else. you're not the only one to say that. a former _ else. you're not the only one to say that, a former director _ else. you're not the only one to say that, a former director of _ that, a former director of legislative affairs at number ten tweeted last week, before this decision was even taken, that number ten's power in whitehall as ephemeral and very dependent on individual and personal calculation. i saw it under theresa may, as you said, private offices were emboldened in vulnerability. she goes on to say, the system will slow down, departments will be more assertive, numberten down, departments will be more assertive, number ten cannot fight whitehall, it's highly dependent on corporation. so you're saying, whatever excuses have been trotted out today, that this is a direct result whatever�*s going on around partygate? result whatever's going on around .a .ate? �* , result whatever's going on around .a iate? �* , 4' result whatever's going on around -a ate? �* , ~ ., partygate? absolutely, i think that, and hearing that _ partygate? absolutely, i think that, and hearing that tweet _ partygate? absolutely, i think that, and hearing that tweet was - partygate? absolutely, i think that, and hearing that tweet was like - partygate? absolutely, i think that, and hearing that tweet was like a i and hearing that tweet was like a real sense of deja vu, because clearly we have the same memory. but it's very strange because the situation is not like that and
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there's we haven't reached the threshold for a place on the premise yet, so i don't that we can compare the two in quite the same way, but the two in quite the same way, but the big question it leads to is what is the government's priority? without levelling up would be a cornerstone and secondary to that, the conversation about spending on health care linked to brexit. but eyes of those haven't been funded, so what are they waiting for? —— either of those. so what are they waiting for? -- either of those.— so what are they waiting for? -- either of those. doug, let me bring ou in, either of those. doug, let me bring you in. you — either of those. doug, let me bring you in. you heard _ either of those. doug, let me bring you in, you heard what _ either of those. doug, let me bring you in, you heard what the - either of those. doug, let me bring you in, you heard what the doctor i you in, you heard what the doctor are saying about the backlog and the cost involved in that, we are in midterm season, crime and the economy feature highly on that but health care, if people are not getting hip surgeries and knee joint surgeries, the servers they expect on their health care, that must play well for the republicans? —— surgeries they expect. it well for the republicans? -- surgeries they expect. it hasn't risen to the _ surgeries they expect. it hasn't risen to the existential- surgeries they expect. it hasn't| risen to the existential problem surgeries they expect. it hasn't - risen to the existential problem for democrats — risen to the existential problem for democrats at this point that it could — democrats at this point that it could be, _ democrats at this point that it could be, as we continue to experience as backlog, and omicron
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is obviously — experience as backlog, and omicron is obviously really exasperated exacerbated that. what we see voters reacting _ exacerbated that. what we see voters reacting to _ exacerbated that. what we see voters reacting to in the most immediate sense _ reacting to in the most immediate sense is— reacting to in the most immediate sense is the pain that everyone is going _ sense is the pain that everyone is going through, and what happens as they go— going through, and what happens as they go to _ going through, and what happens as they go to their petrol station and they go to their petrol station and they pay— they go to their petrol station and they pay more than they were before. and then, _ they pay more than they were before. and then, when they go to wherever they were _ and then, when they go to wherever they were planning to go, paying more _ they were planning to go, paying more for— they were planning to go, paying more for their chicken, their chicken. _ more for their chicken, their chicken, their beef, their produce. if chicken, their beef, their produce. if that's _ chicken, their beef, their produce. if that's on — chicken, their beef, their produce. if that's on the shelf. the aim shelf— if that's on the shelf. the aim shelf issue of the supply chain matters — shelf issue of the supply chain matters. and the rise in violent crime _ matters. and the rise in violent crime we — matters. and the rise in violent crime we are seeing in every metropolitan area in the us as a driving _ metropolitan area in the us as a driving concern for voters because even _ driving concern for voters because even if _ driving concern for voters because even if you — driving concern for voters because even if you don't experience it yourself, _ even if you don't experience it yourself, you know someone who does or you _ yourself, you know someone who does or you see _ yourself, you know someone who does or you see something on twitter or a neighbourhood list share that something happened half a mile away from you _ something happened half a mile away from you and that's something that's really— from you and that's something that's really concerning voters, more than the backlog, the backlog is a bigger and bigger issue is health care costs— and bigger issue is health care costs continue to rise, as well. but a final word _ costs continue to rise, as well. emit a final word from you, doctor, you were saying that when we talk about
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elective surgeries it sort of makes you wonder or think about whether these surgeries could be postponed and there may be not that important, but of course, nearly 200,000 people here are missing two week appointment because of cancer concern, and we know that time is of the essence when it comes to cancer treatment was clearly, there has to be a way in both our systems to identify those most at risk? i think we do need _ identify those most at risk? i think we do need to _ identify those most at risk? i think we do need to see _ identify those most at risk? i think we do need to see that. _ identify those most at risk? i think we do need to see that. we - identify those most at risk? i think we do need to see that. we need i identify those most at risk? i thinkl we do need to see that. we need to have a _ we do need to see that. we need to have a way— we do need to see that. we need to have a way to — we do need to see that. we need to have a way to prioritise _ have a way to prioritise those. again, — have a way to prioritise those. again, your— have a way to prioritise those. again, your system _ have a way to prioritise those. again, your system is- have a way to prioritise those. again, your system is a - have a way to prioritise those. again, your system is a bit- have a way to prioritise those. i again, your system is a bit more compliance _ again, your system is a bit more compliance as _ again, your system is a bit more compliance. as a _ again, your system is a bit more compliance. as a bit _ again, your system is a bit more compliance. as a bit more - again, your system is a bit more - compliance. as a bit more disjointed which _ compliance. as a bit more disjointed which makes — compliance. as a bit more disjointed which makes it— compliance. as a bit more disjointed which makes it difficult— compliance. as a bit more disjointed which makes it difficult for— compliance. as a bit more disjointed which makes it difficult for us - compliance. as a bit more disjointed which makes it difficult for us to - which makes it difficult for us to identify— which makes it difficult for us to identify which— which makes it difficult for us to identify which patients - which makes it difficult for us to identify which patients needs i which makes it difficult for us to identify which patients needs to| which makes it difficult for us to i identify which patients needs to go sooner— identify which patients needs to go sooner rather— identify which patients needs to go sooner rather than— identify which patients needs to go sooner rather than later _ identify which patients needs to go sooner rather than later and - identify which patients needs to go sooner rather than later and then i sooner rather than later and then having _ sooner rather than later and then having to — sooner rather than later and then having to get _ sooner rather than later and then having to get them _ sooner rather than later and then having to get them to _ sooner rather than later and then having to get them to that - having to get them to that procedure _ having to get them to that procedure, that— having to get them to that procedure, that surgery, i having to get them to that i procedure, that surgery, that appointment _ procedure, that surgery, that appointment. even _ procedure, that surgery, that appointment. even if- procedure, that surgery, that appointment. even if it- procedure, that surgery, that appointment. even if it isn't. procedure, that surgery, that- appointment. even if it isn't within the health— appointment. even if it isn't within the health care _ appointment. even if it isn't within the health care system _ appointment. even if it isn't within the health care system that - appointment. even if it isn't within the health care system that they i the health care system that they typically — the health care system that they typically go _ the health care system that they typically go to, _ the health care system that they typically go to, but _ the health care system that they typically go to, but to _ the health care system that they typically go to, but to get - the health care system that they typically go to, but to get in - the health care system that they typically go to, but to get in that procedure — typically go to, but to get in that procedure done. _ typically go to, but to get in that procedure done. and _ typically go to, but to get in that procedure done. and really- typically go to, but to get in that procedure done. and really at i typically go to, but to get in that| procedure done. and really at the heart _ procedure done. and really at the heart of— procedure done. and really at the heart of this — procedure done. and really at the heart of this is _ procedure done. and really at the heart of this is that _ procedure done. and really at the heart of this is that the _ procedure done. and really at the heart of this is that the way - procedure done. and really at the heart of this is that the way for i procedure done. and really at thej heart of this is that the way for us to get— heart of this is that the way for us to get through _ heart of this is that the way for us to get through this _ heart of this is that the way for us to get through this is _ heart of this is that the way for us to get through this is to _ heart of this is that the way for us to get through this is to get - to get through this is to get through— to get through this is to get through the _ to get through this is to get through the pandemic, - to get through this is to get through the pandemic, the i to get through this is to get - through the pandemic, the way we do that is— through the pandemic, the way we do that is by— through the pandemic, the way we do that is by embracing _ through the pandemic, the way we do that is by embracing vaccinations. - that is by embracing vaccinations. it is that is by embracing vaccinations. it is by— that is by embracing vaccinations. it is by doing _ that is by embracing vaccinations. it is by doing the _ that is by embracing vaccinations. it is by doing the simple - that is by embracing vaccinations. it is by doing the simple public. it is by doing the simple public health— it is by doing the simple public health measures _ it is by doing the simple public health measures that - it is by doing the simple public health measures that can -
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it is by doing the simple publicl health measures that can knock it is by doing the simple public- health measures that can knock down casesi _ health measures that can knock down cases. help _ health measures that can knock down cases, help hospitals _ health measures that can knock down cases, help hospitals control- health measures that can knock down cases, help hospitals control what - cases, help hospitals control what is coming — cases, help hospitals control what is coming in — cases, help hospitals control what is coming in so— cases, help hospitals control what is coming in so that— cases, help hospitals control what is coming in so that they - cases, help hospitals control what is coming in so that they can - cases, help hospitals control what is coming in so that they can then| is coming in so that they can then start— is coming in so that they can then start those — is coming in so that they can then start those procedures _ is coming in so that they can then start those procedures again. - is coming in so that they can then start those procedures again. sol start those procedures again. so vaccine — start those procedures again. so vaccine mandates _ start those procedures again. so vaccine mandates need - start those procedures again. so vaccine mandates need to - start those procedures again. so vaccine mandates need to be - start those procedures again. so vaccine mandates need to be a i start those procedures again. so i vaccine mandates need to be a big part of— vaccine mandates need to be a big part of this, — vaccine mandates need to be a big part of this, better— vaccine mandates need to be a big part of this, better testing, - vaccine mandates need to be a big part of this, better testing, better| part of this, better testing, better investment— part of this, better testing, better investment in— part of this, better testing, better investment in public— part of this, better testing, better investment in public health, - investment in public health, surveillance, _ investment in public health, surveillance, ventilation, i investment in public health, i surveillance, ventilation, and masking. _ surveillance, ventilation, and masking. as— surveillance, ventilation, and masking, as well, _ surveillance, ventilation, and masking, as well, all- surveillance, ventilation, and masking, as well, all this - surveillance, ventilation, and i masking, as well, all this needs surveillance, ventilation, and - masking, as well, all this needs to happen— masking, as well, all this needs to happen first — masking, as well, all this needs to happen first to _ masking, as well, all this needs to happen first to get _ masking, as well, all this needs to happen first to get ahead - masking, as well, all this needs to happen first to get ahead of - masking, as well, all this needs to happen first to get ahead of this. i happen first to get ahead of this. thank— happen first to get ahead of this. thank you — happen first to get ahead of this. thank you for— happen first to get ahead of this. thank you forjoining _ happen first to get ahead of this. thank you forjoining us - happen first to get ahead of this. thank you forjoining us on - happen first to get ahead of this. thank you forjoining us on the i thank you forjoining us on the programme, lovely to talk to you. in the canadian capital ottawa, life has come to a virtual standstill as thousands of truck drivers continue thier protest against covid restrictions. and this is day 11. the city—center is now virtually paralysed. tents have gone up. many of the truckers say they're in for the long haul, pardon the pun, with no intention of leaving any time soon. all of this was sparked by the introduction of a new rule that all truckers must be vaccinated if they plan to cross the us—canadian border. ottawa's mayor says the situation is "completely out of control" and has now declared a state of emergency. here he was speaking earlier: we have to put all options on the table, and that may include some violence. we want to minimise that,
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but at the end of the day, if the people are not going to leave, they're going to have to be forced to leave. plain and simple, this cannot go on for months and months. this is causing such havoc and such grief. for more, i'mjoined now by matthew lapierre, who's a reporter at the ottawa citizen. have you been up to date have a look at the situation? has it eased any since the weekend? i at the situation? has it eased any since the weekend?— at the situation? has it eased any since the weekend? i have, and it has quieted _ since the weekend? i have, and it has quieted down _ since the weekend? i have, and it has quieted down a _ since the weekend? i have, and it has quieted down a bit _ since the weekend? i have, and it has quieted down a bit since - since the weekend? i have, and it has quieted down a bit since the i has quieted down a bit since the weekend, we see now two weekends with crowds flooding in from the surrounding regions and across the country to protest in downtown, but during the week there is a solid crowd of truckers that staying put in downtown ottawa, they have no intention of leaving, and at this point the police are having real trouble figuring out if they even can get rid of them because they are absolutely clogging up the roads in front of parliament and they've packed these massive, heavy trucks and rvs and suvs and pick—up trucks
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all throughout the downtown, it's absolutelyjammed.— all throughout the downtown, it's absolutely jammed.— absolutely 'ammed. we've been talkinu absolutely jammed. we've been talking about — absolutely jammed. we've been talking about a _ absolutely jammed. we've been talking about a mob _ absolutely jammed. we've been talking about a mob outside - absolutely jammed. we've been - talking about a mob outside downing street this evening that has surrounded the leader of the opposition, and it's similar over there, isn't it? if you scratch the surface of these legitimate political protests, sometimes, there is a more extreme element to it, isn't there? people who get wrapped up isn't there? people who get wrapped up in those who have also to conspiracy theories and various views to push?— conspiracy theories and various viewsto ush? ., h , views to push? that's exactly right. it started views to push? that's exactly right. it started as — views to push? that's exactly right. it started as a _ views to push? that's exactly right. it started as a protest _ views to push? that's exactly right. it started as a protest that - views to push? that's exactly right. it started as a protest that in - views to push? that's exactly right. it started as a protest that in the i it started as a protest that in the name was about these vaccine mandates for truckers entering canada, but it quickly grew, i think, beyond that and now, if you walk through downtown you see all kinds of signs. it's the type you see elsewhere, and is reminiscent even of what you saw on january the 6th in the us, you're seeing people who want a change in government in
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canada, they blame globalists and conspiracy theories for their problems. and again, they say they're not going anywhere, we've got this new neighbourhood of folks from all over canada that have just landed in downtown ottawa and they are here to stay, it seems. abs, landed in downtown ottawa and they are here to stay, it seems.— are here to stay, it seems. a state of emergency. _ are here to stay, it seems. a state of emergency. the _ are here to stay, it seems. a state of emergency, the police - are here to stay, it seems. a state of emergency, the police chief - of emergency, the police chief saying he does not have enough resources to tackle it, what's the prime minister doing? what isjustin trudeau saying about it and how is he approaching it? the trudeau saying about it and how is he approaching it?— he approaching it? the protesters are iuite he approaching it? the protesters are quite upset — he approaching it? the protesters are quite upset at _ he approaching it? the protesters are quite upset at his _ he approaching it? the protesters are quite upset at his rhetoric, i are quite upset at his rhetoric, justin trudeau seems to have taken the stance that he's not going to engage with these people, not going to stoop to their level, and of course, that's because there is a contingent of these people who just want to see a change in government, which is a sort of undemocratic ask, he doesn't want to respond to that, so his rhetoric is seen by some people as inflaming these tensions, he is called them a fringe minority which if you look at statistics and poles, that's true to a certain degree, especially in ottawa, most
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of ottawa, 90% of what vaccinated, which these people downtown are fighting against vaccine mandates as the main message. so the prime minister has taken a step back, its minister has taken a step back, it's unclear whether or not that is helping. unclear whether or not that is heliini. a unclear whether or not that is heliini. ., ~ unclear whether or not that is heliini. ., ,, unclear whether or not that is heliiin_ ., ~' , helping. matthew, thank you very much for that. _ helping. matthew, thank you very much for that. i _ helping. matthew, thank you very much for that. i was _ helping. matthew, thank you very much for that. i was looking i helping. matthew, thank you very much for that. i was looking at i helping. matthew, thank you very i much for that. i was looking at that today, sonia, and thinking there was quite an interesting parallel with what happened in france with yellow vests, and again in france, when you look at the polling, less than half supported the gilets jaunes. —— giletsjaunes. the supported the gilets jaunes. —— gilets jaunes. the ottawa supported the gilets jaunes. —— giletsjaunes. the ottawa protesters don't speak for the majority, do they? i don't speak for the ma'ority, do the ? ~ ., don't speak for the ma'ority, do the ? ~ . . , they? i think what it reflects particularly _ they? i think what it reflects particularly now _ they? i think what it reflects particularly now is _ they? i think what it reflects particularly now is a - they? i think what it reflects particularly now is a real i particularly now is a real frustration over what has been happening over the last few years, and as you contributor set, its not about covid vaccinations but we have found that covid has limited political participation as it did with the yellow vest and it's now become about living standards or an
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individual country'spolicy or social justice, and i think that's what makes these protests much harder to manage, and it's clear there is no sort of one singular cause therefore there is not one single a fix. and i think it is really interesting to see how governments respond, with trying to minimise the impact or engage in negotiations or actually playing hard ball and allowing the option for violence to be on the table. �* ., ., ,., table. and what about the united states? clearly, _ table. and what about the united states? clearly, mandates- table. and what about the united states? clearly, mandates are i table. and what about the united i states? clearly, mandates are very political there, and particularly so in republican states. do you see comparisons between what's happening in canada and what's happening in the ground in the united states? sure, between here, canada, germany, france _ sure, between here, canada, germany, france the _ sure, between here, canada, germany, france, the uk, in the united states we often _ france, the uk, in the united states we often say all politics are global, _ we often say all politics are global, that what happens in your neighbourhood is what should be talked _ neighbourhood is what should be talked about throughout the country. and the _ talked about throughout the country. and the reality is we've moved not only were — and the reality is we've moved not only were all politics are national but international, and all of these are crimes — but international, and all of these are crimes that are flowing together, that affect global communities. i live four blocks from
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a restaurant — communities. i live four blocks from a restaurant that is defying the vaccine — a restaurant that is defying the vaccine mandate and the mask mandate _ vaccine mandate and the mask mandate, in the district of columbia. and what we are seeing is that fringe _ columbia. and what we are seeing is that fringe element which has now been _ that fringe element which has now been politicised is rallying around them, _ been politicised is rallying around them, raising money forthem, and supporting — them, raising money forthem, and supporting their defiance of the law and this— supporting their defiance of the law and this is— supporting their defiance of the law and this is affecting not onlyjust individual— and this is affecting not onlyjust individual restaurants but schools, school _ individual restaurants but schools, school systems, and ultimately, to what we _ school systems, and ultimately, to what we are seeing in ottawa right now _ what we are seeing in ottawa right now. it's _ what we are seeing in ottawa right now, it's scary. what we are seeing in ottawa right now. it's scary-— now, it's scary. very quickly, do ou now, it's scary. very quickly, do you think _ now, it's scary. very quickly, do you think republicans _ now, it's scary. very quickly, do you think republicans are i now, it's scary. very quickly, do you think republicans are on i now, it's scary. very quickly, do | you think republicans are on the right side of the argument on this? i think it depends on which republic you talk— i think it depends on which republic you talk to — i think it depends on which republic you talk to. but what we are seeing is on _ you talk to. but what we are seeing is on the _ you talk to. but what we are seeing is on the government level, one republican, the governor of virginia. _ republican, the governor of virginia, has removed mask mandates from school. _ virginia, has removed mask mandates from school, we are now seeing democratic— from school, we are now seeing democratic governors do that as well in democratic governors do that as well mersey— democratic governors do that as well injersey and delaware, i suspect we will see _ injersey and delaware, i suspect we will see more do that, but vaccines becomes— will see more do that, but vaccines becomes a — will see more do that, but vaccines becomes a much different issue. tiers; becomes a much different issue. very interestini. becomes a much different issue. very interesting. this _ becomes a much different issue. very interesting. this is _ becomes a much different issue. - interesting. this is context of the bbc. still to come on the programme:
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spotify criticises old racial slurs made by its star podcasterjoe rogan — but says silencing him is not the answer. we'll discuss next. here, fines imposed by private car park operators are to be capped at £50 in england, scotland and wales — as danny savage reports. parking charge notices for parking on private land have always been contentious. now at least the £100 charge is to be halved to £50. lots of people get fined for parking by making a simple mistake. take this street in harrogate, for example. if you park here, it's a council parking bay. but if you park on this side, its private parking. but what lots of people do is get a ticket from here and parked over there and pick up a £100 fine. they've even got to the point now where they've put special signs on here, warning people. unfortunately, for the first nine occasions, i was using my postcode instead of my car registration number. philip lovell put the wrong details
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into an automated system where he was allowed to park. he is now contesting the £2000 the private parking company says he owes. the biggest frustration is not being able to deal with anybody. it's just a faceless organisation. they just try to maximise the payments they can get from me. it is prime land. we need it for our guests for the hotel. we don't have enough spaces as it is. but businesses which use private parking firms say they have an important role. at this hotel they will pass your details onto a company to pursue you for £100, but only as a last resort. if you are not booked in with us, a ticket goes on. but it clearly also explains you have an opportunity to come into the hotel and pay the normal parking rate, so no extra fine, just settle for your ticket. we don't want people coming here and dumping cars. and just before this interview we saw somebody did exactly that, trying to go and do her shopping! you can be pursued through the civil courts for a parking
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charge if you ignore it. but the new code of practice in england, scotland and wales will make it much clearer what the rules are. spotify is still under the spotlight, and all because ofjoe rogan. last week several artists said they were quitting the music streaming platform in protest at the prominent role rogan has played in spreading coronavirus misinformation. and then over the weekend, clips emerged of rogan using racist language on earlier episodes of his podcast before he signed a multimillion dollar contract with spotify. this was the apology that followed. look, i can't go back in time and change what i said. i wish i could. obviously that's not possible. but i do hope that this can be a teachable moment for anybody that doesn't realise how offensive that word can be, coming out of a white person's mouth, in context or out of context.
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my sincere and humble apologies. spotify have quietly removed more than 110 old podcast episodes following widespread criticism. in a letter to staff, the spotify boss daniel ek said while he condemns what rogan said, he, quote, "did not believe that silencing joe is the answer". doug, let me come to you first with this. we talked last week about how quick companies are to spot and developing social media story and do something about it, and that was in the context of with goldberg, at abc, who was suspended despite making several apologies. —— whoopi go back. this is the antithesis of this, this problem has been around several weeks, this, this problem has been around severalweeks, do this, this problem has been around several weeks, do you think spotify has been quite a slow to it?- has been quite a slow to it? clearly the didn't has been quite a slow to it? clearly they didn't vet _ has been quite a slow to it? clearly they didn't vet joe _ has been quite a slow to it? clearly they didn't vet joe rogan _ has been quite a slow to it? clearly they didn't vet joe rogan and i has been quite a slow to it? clearly they didn't vet joe rogan and what | they didn't vetjoe rogan and what he had set in the past thoroughly enough, and the reality is, the name
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you are, the less scrutiny you get. and so what will happen, i think, most likely come is a big name for spotify and brings a lot of listeners to spotify, they will be willing to cast asidejoni mitchell or neil young, is too big to fail, joe rogan, and just because they didn't do the research that they did in the past doesn't mean he will go away, itjust means there will be some apologies and they will hope to move on. i some apologies and they will hope to move on. ., ., ~ some apologies and they will hope to move on. ., , . , , ., move on. i took a principled stand, i don't move on. i took a principled stand, i don't know _ move on. i took a principled stand, i don't know if— move on. i took a principled stand, i don't know if you _ move on. i took a principled stand, i don't know if you know _ move on. i took a principled stand, i don't know if you know that, i i don't know if you know that, sonia, i took a stand and cancelled spotify over the weekend, much to the annoyance of mine and my children, who have lost all their playlists. —— might two children but i felt quite strongly about it, mind you, ifelt i felt quite strongly about it, mind you, i felt strongly about twitter three years ago and have rejoined, so i'm probably not going to stand still for very long! so i'm probably not going to stand still forvery long! but so i'm probably not going to stand still for very long! but i wonder whether you think it's been a market moving event and whether this could be a real problem for spotify? i
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think it is a real problem and not just for spotify but for every social media company out there, and i think what it gets to is the heart of the debate around the balance between the protection of people's rights and freedom of expression and not knowing whether they are responsible for the content they have or whether they are just platforms for people to have the content. and we see it across the sector. there is no kind of regulatory guidance on this, so individualfirms make kind of their own decisions as and when they see fit, and i imagine for spotify is something that started off as a streaming platform that may have hosted a lot of rude words and their music, and now has moved on to podcasts and hasn't quite work out how to filter these things at what level of content management there should be. so i think the debate is much wider than spotify, and i don't think any company has had kind of the right approach yet. but think any company has had kind of the right approach yet.— the right approach yet. but you're still on spotify. — the right approach yet. but you're still on spotify, yes? _ the right approach yet. but you're still on spotify, yes? quickly... . the right approach yet. but you'rel still on spotify, yes? quickly... on the stock. — still on spotify, yes? quickly... on the stock. very _ still on spotify, yes? quickly... on
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the stock, very quickly! _ still on spotify, yes? quickly... on the stock, very quickly! a - still on spotify, yes? quickly... on the stock, very quickly! a few i the stock, very quickly! a few months ago _ the stock, very quickly! a few months ago we _ the stock, very quickly! a few months ago we had _ the stock, very quickly! a few months ago we had this i the stock, very quickly! a few - months ago we had this conversation about— months ago we had this conversation about netflix and dave chappelle, they were able to move on, we will find out _ they were able to move on, we will find out but — they were able to move on, we will find out but my suspicion is we will not be _ find out but my suspicion is we will not be talking about spotify and joe rogan _ not be talking about spotify and joe rogan in _ not be talking about spotify and joe rogan in six weeks. we not be talking about spotify and joe rogan in six weeks.— rogan in six weeks. we are out of time, rogan in six weeks. we are out of time. thank _ rogan in six weeks. we are out of time. thank you — rogan in six weeks. we are out of time, thank you to _ rogan in six weeks. we are out of time, thank you to you _ rogan in six weeks. we are out of time, thank you to you both! i the weather for the week is very much a case of the battle of the season, we started off in spring thanks to the uk being in mild atlantic air, but this cold arctic air comes to dominate committing its way south into all parts of thursday and friday, and temperatures will then be below average. tuesday, temperatures very much above average across england and wales, cold or it into scotland, it will advance further south into england and northern ireland through the day. dividing the air masses, this weather front, dividing the air masses, this weatherfront, band of cloud dividing the air masses, this weather front, band of cloud with some persistent but mainly light
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rain around the north west of england through the day on tuesday. to the south, sunny spells, up to 14, further north, single figures, bright but with some showers on the westerly wind. tuesday and wednesday, you can see the error starting to take hold, as it skews showers more to the wintry flavour. further south, showers more to the wintry flavour. furthersouth, is showers more to the wintry flavour. further south, is among the earthly wednesday but cold air all the while will be edging its way south, through the day, so temperatures across northern england and parts of the midlands and north wales will come down through the day as we start to see perhaps more in the way of sunshine. further south, there will be some plan, a little light rain, but we are still looking for at double figures, perhaps up to 13. five, six, seven, more typicalfor scotland and northern ireland. wednesday and thursday, the front in the south and cling on no more, it's off into the continent, we are all into arctic air. we will keep a close eye on this area of low pressure here across scotland. it
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could produce some problems. the first being strong, gusty winds, a potentially damaging winds. the second being more persistent snowfall, particularly in northern and eastern scotland, showers are possible for northern ireland and parts of northern england, down into north wales through into the midlands. the sustained wind speeds, the costs across northern britain perhaps closer to 50 or 60 mph. factoring in the wind when talking about the temperature, that's what you would see on the thermometer, with that wind it will feel sub zero, certainly across scotland. thursday and friday it gets quieter once again, high pressure builds up across the uk, meaning a lighter wind and a lot of sunshine, cold start, with widespread frost. a lighter wind for western scotland making a difference in terms of how many shares we will see here. it should also mean it will feel cold but not as bitingly cold as thursday. —— how many calories we will see here. into the weekend, the hydrous eastwards and this starts to approach from the atlantic. we have
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at running into cold air, for scotland, perhaps northern england and will, it will be wintry for a time but i think the rain will wind out as we go further into the day. it looks like it could stay dry though across central and eastern england. longerterm, very though across central and eastern england. longer term, very much a case of ourjet stream pretty much sitting directly across the uk, continually feeding systems towards us from the atlantic, so quite an unsettled picture into next week, and thatjet unsettled picture into next week, and that jet stream unsettled picture into next week, and thatjet stream is the boundary between the arctic art to the north and among other atlantic out to the south, so we will tend to see exactly where that sits, that will be the biggest question in terms of ourforecast going to be the biggest question in terms of our forecast going to the following week. but it looks like a pretty mobile weather pattern to come, but should get a little milder through the weekend.
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tonight at ten: borisjohnson is called upon once again to withdraw a false accusation he made against keir starmer. it follows tonight's incident at westminster when sir keir was harrassed by a group of protesters, some of them shouting the name "jimmy savile". that was taken to be a reference to the accusation made by borisjohnson in the house of commons last week that sir keir had failed to prosecute savile on sex offences. also tonight...

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