tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg November 16, 2018 11:00pm-12:00am EST
♪ emily: i am emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg technology. stanford fires back. the facebook ceo defends herself and her company over accusations that she was asleep at the wheel. backlash from employees and even users not letting up. diane greene is out as google cloud's ceo. why one of the female execs is being replaced despite calls for more women at the top. plus, california is under fire.
the camp fire becomes the most of us sitting in california's history. how tech may be able to play a preventative role. to the top story, the two nude -- the continued fallout from the blockbuster report alleging mismanagement of facebook. sheryl sandberg defended herself writing "to suggest we were not interested in knowing the truth or we wanted to hide what we knew, or that we try to prevent investigation, is simply untrue. the allegation saying i personally stood in the way are also just plain wrong. this was an investigation of a foreign actor trying to interfere in our elections. nothing could be more important to me or to facebook." emily: she also called the tactics used against george soros of laurent -- a poor and -- abhorent. bloomberg is reporting depressed route as employees try to grapple with what they read.
this as investors call for zuckerberg to split his role as ceo and chair along with renewed calls from lawmakers to investigate legal ramifications of it all. here to dissect it all is michael wolff and kyle jensen. at a higher level, how do you think these governance issues will play out here? you have the top two leaders set aside for both being asleep at the wheel. michael: from a governance perspective, we have to remember facebook is a control company. mark zuckerberg controls the voting in the company and the board serves in his pleasure. i'm not sure they will play out differently.
the bigger issue is the backlash from users, yes from shareholders, but even more importantly from advertisers. those are the people that can really vote. users have shown, going back to some of the original issues, that users are not walking away from the platform. they're not walking away from instagram or whatsapp. emily: we have a survey, a poll conducted that shows facebook is one of the least trusted institutions. amazon and google fall right behind the top ranked military. kyle, at what point do we see users revolting? kyle: i think it is challenging for users to revolt. there's a few reasons. there is tremendous positive externalities in the network like facebook. someone like myself is on facebook and not a new social network number five. that makes it very difficult for existing users to get off of the
platform. second, as user on facebook, if i'm in my 20's or 30's, it's possible i have lived my whole life on facebook. while i can export my data, i'm not going to get the picture someone took of me at a party or the conversations in private communities. i think users are stuck on facebook to some extent. as long as users are there, there will be advertisers their too. emily: that is interesting -- our advertisers really going to walk away? have not seen that in earnings. michael: what has happened is the difference is facebook having something happen on its
platform that it was not aware of versus facebook doing specific things including opposition research and opposition opinions and getting out other points of view. advertisers are going to be under pressure. the bigger pressure is not just the things the new york times reported on. it were other things that were impacted by russians and foreign actors. it is voter suppression, hate groups, so facebook has a challenge ahead of it to be able to correct these. i'm not sure they are easily able to get a handle on it given the 2 billion people using the platform. emily: i got a chance to go into facebook's election more worm -- war room and they said the majority of the activity, the malicious or inauthentic activity, is coming from domestic actors. i want to talk about leadership because on a press call, mark zuckerberg defended himself and
sheryl sandberg and said i think cheryl was also not involved. she learned about this at the same time i did, talking about this controversial firm. he went on to say sheryl is doing great work for the company and has been an important part -- partner to me. kyle, the board has come out saying in a very unusual thing, to hear from the facebook board that they pushed samberg and zuckerberg -- sandberg and zuckerberg to push faster but they continue to support their leadership. descents change happening in mark zuckerberg being the ceo and chair or sheryl sandberg being is number two? kyle: for the same reasons articulated earlier, the controlling shares in the
company, i do not see a change being forced upon them. i think there will be substantial change in the way the leadership governs himself and the way they behave and potentially, the way the board interacts with the leadership. you can imagine an astute thing to do to convene an investigative panel by one of the terror members able to work independently within the company to investigate how facebook handle the issue that's handled the issue. -- handled the issue. emily: you're suggesting the board once an internal look into how these things were handled? kyle: i think even if we take mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg at face value and believe they're doing their utmost now to rectify this issue, the fact that they probably lost the faith of users, advertisers, stakeholders, and facebook, it is probably good for someone else to be seen who is
independent leading on this issue. emily: what you think about a pushback from lawmakers here? we have senators sending a letter to the doj and tweeting about this. following these reports, this is something facebook has pushed back on. they said they never paid for fake news or paid to spread misinformation. what you think about the perspective from congress? michael: somewhere in facebook, heads will roll. i doubt it will be senior management and the way mark zuckerberg is responsible for the user growth and product and experience. sheryl has been responsible for facebook becoming a large-scale business. there will be hearings about this and be a very political issue, especially given the overall backlash against tech in congress.
i still do not think there will be -- there is no specific legislation or nothing limiting facebook's ability to grow as a company. emily: one last question for you, kyle. we have been reporting on the morale at facebook. employees in the cafeteria quiet, talking in these internal chat rooms. some people are saying i can't believe i have been sitting here and helping these people make so much money off of my efforts and others say i admire sheryl sandberg because it is hard to run a global company and it seems like she has been pretty savvy. we forget this is a company that has to keep its employees on their side. how do zuckerberg and sandberg do that when there are leaks about their efforts and internal conversations and keep the troops rallied? kyle: that's a very challenging problem and not just a problem for their existing employees. i see yale students every day
asking if this is a company to spend their life. this is the kind of things that makes this an existential threat for the company because they are in competition for the best in -- best and the brightest for talent. i wish i knew the answer for your question. i do not. emily: kyle jensen, and michael wolff, always great to have you here. the new york times has a piece out about how new college grads are not so excited about working at facebook and they are looking elsewhere. we will speak exclusively to an investor whose firm holds a stake in facebook and he once to see big changes at the top. in the meantime, google cloud's ceo has stepped down and will be
replaced by a former oracle executive. green said she will stay on as now that board member and plans to -- alphabet board member and plans to turn herself to education. coming up, 2018 has been quite a year for tech ipos. could 2019 be bigger? if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. listen on the bloomberg app, bloomberg.com, and, in the u.s., sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪
according to bank of america, investors allocations to tech stocks are the lowest because of future growth or profitability. what is a need for coming tech ipos? with the head of global tech investment banking and bloomberg's ideal reporter. gary, we are waiting for all of these big ipos early next year. uber, airbnb, lyft. if market conditions like this continue, will they happen as planned? gary: we think they will. we think there will be a great market for u.s. ipos and global ideas. there has been a little temperament in the market today, we feel the underlying growth in the u.s. market and all the m&a activity that has taken capital
out of the markets, put filial -- portfolio managers are looking for strong ipos. emily: does that echo what you are hearing? alex: it does. gary and i have spoken about this. with these big tech companies selling off, they are looking -- people are looking for other places to find growth. you oversee ipo's and you also work on the m&a advisory side. a selloff potentially good for potential buyers to buy assets. does the selloff make good moves? will the m&a market come back strong? gary: we see a lot of strategic interest rate now in these private companies. there is a huge appetite on the strategic side to buy growth, by technology, by innovation -- buy technology, buy innovation. the little bit of selloff reduces the multiples which is generally a good thing for m&a. if there -- is this more of a positive thing for the m&a market?
gary: i think it's a little better for the m&a market but it still does not do anything to the ipo market as well. emily: do you think valuations will stand up? bankers are shopping uber at $120 billion valuations. to the valuations hold? -- do the valuations hold? gary: i think you can see them coming down marginally, but for select asset, these are unique companies offering unique entry points. growth is generally good. there has always been a special premium for companies like those. alex: when you do think about the silicon valley groupthink, i feel was a scary perspective. folks said there is all this
cash in private hands, why do we not just take it? a lot of these consumer tech companies are saying it is time. how are management teams squaring this idea of taking public capital versus staying private for longer? gary: you see a trend of the last five years -- over the last five years were companies they private a lot longer. there is in the amount of private capital they can take and generally at slightly higher valuations to public violations. they don't have to go through the exercise of the ipo. for many, it is a way to build companies to more mass to attract talent, and to really build these behemoths we see in technology today. emily: map out 2019 for us when it comes to ipo's and tech m&a, what do you see? gary: i see very good tech ipos next year. i see another class beneath that that are very good companies but quite a bit smaller.
you will see 50 or more good ipos. in terms of m&a, you'll continue to see large strategic's who are well-capitalized purchase some of these companies as they move on the route toward the ipo. emily: gary and alex barinka, thank you both. coming up, air quality in the bay area has reached unhealthy levels in the weeks since the camp fire set ablaze. how tech could be used in the future to predict similar disasters next. if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. "bloomberg technology" is livestreaming on twitter. check us out @technology, and be sure to follow our global news network, @tictoc, on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪
♪ emily: california's camp fire has now become the deadliest and most destructive wildfire in the state's history. the number of people missing has swelled to more than 600. more than 60 people have been confirmed dead. meantime, the air quality in the area is rivaling beijing with ash blanketing san francisco. president trump is expected to visit the state to two or the -- tour the affected areas. many computer scientists, researchers, and academics are looking to technology for an answer. we are joined by olivia zaleski and on the phone from's portugal -- from portugal we have greg clemens. you are traveling at a global wildfire conference.
i want to ask you, as far as you know, when it comes to the butte county fire and here in the bay area, how does this play out? what is next in the next 24 to 48 hours? craig: the mountainous regions the of the camp fire are under a red flag warning -- sorry a fire weather watch meaning gusty wind is forecasted. that means more smoke will be transported to the bay area, potentially increasing the smoke levels and potentially being a dangerous condition for firefighters on the fire line. emily: what has made this fire so difficult to fight and why is the air not moving over the bay area? craig: the region has a high pressure system over it so that is what is keeping the air stagnant. there's not a lot of wind in the bay area.
the northeast wind could flush out some of the air in the bay area, but it will be replaced with the smoke from the current camp fire. the reason why it is a difficult fire, is that we are in fall and the fuels are dry. when you have high fields -- drive fields and high wind, that makes for very dangerous and a fast fending -- fast spreading fire. emily: you can see the air behind me in san francisco. you can normally see the bay bridge and it is almost completely of scared. i have my mask year for after we get off of the set. you're been covering how tech companies are handing it and how it is impacting employees. what you hearing? >> they all have their headquarters here in the bay area, uber, and others and many are telling their employees to work from home and advising
that. coming in on the commute is considered dangerous. if they are coming into the office, they are giving out masks. some are even doubling up on air purifiers. emily: schools are closed, it's impossible to get masks or air purifiers on amazon delivered in any short amount of time. cragg, you have been looking into how technology and potentially ai could help prevent and fight disasters like this. how'd biggest is that technology and is it being used right now? craig: i'm not too sure on how the advanced the technology is, but there are teams using deep learning and ai to understand how fires behave.
in general, most fire prediction systems are based on combustion models that are linked to fire weather models. we can forecast pretty well with the fire and conditions will be. we understand how fires spread in types of conditions, but we do not understand a lot of aspects of how plumes and spottiness occurs. that is what drives the spread rate. that is where the state of the science is right now. emily: right now, is it up to humans and good old-fashioned cell phones? craig: that is one way. there is predicted 50 systems out there, like weather models that are predicting where smoke goes, where fires can move, but right now, i think the big issue is understanding what the fuel conditions are. how dry are the fuel going --
fuels going to be. the system gives us a forecast of the conditions on the ground, but does not give us the fire danger in real-time. there are a lot of models out there and that gives us an idea of what to expect next. what they are worried about is this event this weekend and how it might be severe. emily: should we be bracing for better air quality through the weekends, monday? craig: i believe the bay area quality district has the warning out until tuesday. all weekend will be smoky. if we have the northeast wind blowing into the bait area, -- the bay area, it brings in smoke into the bay area. emily: everybody, stay safe. craig and olivia zaleski continuing to give us an update. our hearts glad to everybody affected by the fires. coming up, the latest facebook scandal. some investors are calling for management to be shaken up. our exclusive conversations with
♪ emily: this is "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang in san francisco. the latest facebook scandal and what it means for the company moving forward. the new york times revelation has some analysts and investors clamoring for a shakeup. scott devitt said under more scrutiny than ever, the campaign trail to rebuild credibility will be long and difficult. adding that facebook could accelerate the rebuild by considering making changes at the top of the organization. and, that leadership has been a point of contention for trillion asset management. a firm that holds close to $8 million in facebook. back in june, they filed a
proposal to remove mark zuckerberg, setting mismanagement of several crises like russian election meddling and failing to protect users' data. jonas kron joins us now from washington. you were asking for that before this story. in fact, your shares have fallen from $11 million to $8 million because of the facebook stock slide. what do you think now that you have read this report? jonas: thank you very much for having me today. i think this tells us something we have been knowing for a long time. if anything, these new reports should remove any lingering doubts anybody has that it is time for there to be independent board chair at facebook. one of the interesting things in the report was the interactions between the audit committee and the board, mark zuckerberg and sheryl sanders. it was -- sandberg, rather. it was interesting to see yesterday how the board of directors put out a statement indicating their support for
mark and sheryl. i think what is really interesting is it shows is exactly what is going on and why we should be concerned and why the company needs to have an independent board of director. the board of directors indicated they are providing their support, but the chair is mark zuckerberg. that is essentially the board saying, thus mark zuckerberg saying he supports mark zuckerberg. that shows us we need to start having that independent leadership on the board of directors going forward. emily: that said, mark zuckerberg was asked this question on a press call yesterday. take a listen to what he had to say. >> for the board's composition -- i don't particularly think that specific proposal is the right way to go. but i'm quite focused on finding ways to get more independence into our systems in different ways which is one of the big proposals i'm talking about that
i discussed in the note is around this independent body for appeals. emily: so, jonas, no sign that mark zuckerberg wants to change anything. as we know, he holds the majority of shares and forcing that change upon him will be very difficult. what is your response to him? jonas: i appreciate that he seems to be looking for opportunities to bring that level of independence into the board of directors, or at least into the company in some capacity. i respectfully would have to disagree. i think we are seeing clearly that an independent board chair would be good for the company. i think it is important to point out that while facebook is an important company, it is also just a company like so many other companies that have independent board chairs.
apple, google, oracle, twitter, microsoft -- so many other companies have separated the chair and ceo. at least the majority, two thirds of the s&p 500 have independent board chairs. emily: i want to talk about the reaction here from lawmakers. amy klobuchar writing a letter to the doj. we've got other lawmakers calling for regulations. take a listen. >> if they don't step up much more aggressively, yes, i confidently predict that we on the policymaking side will get involved. i don't know what that looks like. in fact, it is a little bit of a dicey trail. it is tough to figure out how to do that but i know this -- if they don't exercise some sense of community responsibility then there will be efforts,
successful, to impose it upon them. emily: that is congressman denny heck who is on the house intelligence committee. it is clear from the article that facebook upset folks on both sides of the aisle. would you want the government to step in here? jonas: at this point, i think we are looking for opportunities to convey our message with other shareholders directly to the board and to mark zuckerberg. along the lines of where public officials come in, i think it is important to point out the shareholder proposal we filed has received the support of some critical public leaders in the market. the treasurers of illinois, the treasurer of rhode island, pennsylvania, the comptroller of new york city have profiled the shareholder proposal and put their weight behind it. while trillium holds $8 million worth of facebook, this group
and investors combined holds $800 million of facebook shares. we're out there as facebook investors talking to other investors, markets to make the case of why it is time to have an independent board chair. that kind of public involvement is really critical. emily: some analysts have echoed your call. take a listen to this from brian weaver. >> there are massive managerial and cultural problems with the company, and i don't think -- they have not acknowledged that problem at the top of the company. they have not begun a top to bottom review of the company in terms of what they stand for culturally, ethnically, morally. emily: other analysts have recommended bringing in another experienced leader from the outside that people know. what did you think of that idea and who could that be? jonas: i certainly think there should be more independent leadership brought into the board of directors. who it should be? i hesitate playing the game of naming names but i think we know what kind of person we need to have in the chair role.
it needs to be someone genuinely independent. somebody who has gravitas and can speak with authority and with confidence of the rest of the members of the board. it needs to be somebody that has a broad diversity of experience, tech experience. there could be some merit having somebody from the traditional media, the newspaper industry that has a deep understanding of the role of media in society. somebody with time on their hands because this will be a long few years ahead of the company and they will need to be able to devote an enormous amount of time. and someone who can understand the operational, the technical, the political, the financial risks. emily: when this particular article was published, have you sense a change among other shareholders and what they are advocating for? jonas: absolutely. i have been hearing from all different stretch of investors indicating their support of the
shareholder proposal. they see the value in having in independent board chair. two years ago, a similar ballot measure was put on the facebook proxy. at that time, it got about 51% of outside shareholders. only more and more reasons the last few years to support that. i suspect that when we go to a vote in may of 2019, i think the support from wall street will be much higher for the proposal. emily: how concerned are you about the business? say they make some changes, but there is no huge shakeup at the top -- we have not really seen concrete evidence users are pulling back, advertisers are pulling back. are you worried about that going forward or is facebook just obey that -- so big that it has a monopoly on that? jonas: of course, we are concerned because we think
having an independent board chair is related to financial performance and this would be steps the company could take to improve their outlook. we're long-term investors. we are in for the long haul. we would not still be in the company if we did not believe they had the ability to fix things and make things right. putting an independent board chair in the board of directors is not going to saw all the problems but it is a necessary step. not sufficient but necessary. emily: jonas kron, thank you so much for waiting in. -- weighing in. coming up, big companies like paypal, google and amazon are paving their way more and more into fintech. is it becoming too crowded for the london-based unicorn to keep up? plus, kim kendall wants to help you put your phone down and get your time back. how his company plans to do it when we come back. ♪
♪ emily: in 2011, an estonian was living in london. the first employee was paid in euros but had bills to pay in pounds. the other paid in pounds but needed euros. every month, they struggled to move money internationally, so in 2012, they created transferwise, bypassing banks to keep costs down. they have raised $400 million in funding from notable investors including richard branson. now they are opening their api for third-party businesses, but could the frenzy around brexit impact the business? here to discuss, taavet hinrikus, joining us from new
york. brexit uncertainty, how is that impacting your business? taavet: i think we would like to move on and be done with endless drama of brexit. i don't think any technology company or anybody living in london is enjoying it right now. we would love a solution. emily: right, but the drama is continuing so how are you dealing with it? taavet: we care about regulation. we are opening an office in europe to be able to serve the european customers. how do we make sure that our employees in london, half of whom are not british can stay in london? how can we tell people that london is still a great place to come to? we strive on talent. u.k. needs to stay a very attractive place to attract talent. emily: what is your sell to employees at this moment of uncertainty? taavet: luckily, we are a global business. we have 10 offices around the world.
if somebody wants to join us, we have a place for them if they want to come to london. i think it is still a very great place to be and it will continue to be attractive. emily: are these political issues impacting transfers for better or worse? have you seen less or more money moving? taavet: it is really hard to see how things are impacting. we are continuing to grow north of 50% on an annual basis so it is hard to detect the macro effects. some months, we see more transfer from the u.k. other months, we see more activity in the u.s. overall, i would say volatility has helped business. emily: paypal has been making more and more moves into this space. i know your argument is always around fees. you've got the best offer for
customers, but how is paypal impacting your business? taavet: to be honest, our business is to help consumers move money from one country to another. we have been expending more to the business side and mostly competing with banks. we look at banks as an outdated service or offering, extremely slow, expensive. everybody loves the transferwise experience. paypal, while they are pretty significant company moving a high volume of payment, they are not that competitive. if you look at the price comparison, you can see that using paypal will be five times, seven times more expensive than using transferwise. emily: you are really a global company. who is your biggest competition? taavet: when we ask our customers, banks come up nine times out of 10.
we look at big banks like citibank, wells fargo being our main competition. emily: we are looking at a big year ahead for ipo's, dependent on market conditions. there is a lot of pent-up demands. you are a company that has raised $400 million. what progress are you making towards becoming a public company? taavet: we feel for transferwise, the best place to be is an independent company into continue growing. we are still looking at how to continue growing as fast as we can. being a public company will not help us grow any faster. we have a great investor base that is very happy with the performance. eventually, we might be a public company. that is not something we spent a lot of time thinking about. emily: we will keep our eye on it. thank you so much for stopping by. still ahead, he has worked at facebook and pinterest, and now tim kendall wants you to put
♪ emily: nintendo investors are showing concern. the switch game console may have disappointing holiday sales after the lackluster debut of the new pokemon game and a supplier warning of weak demand. this which became one of the fastest selling consuls in history after its release last year. the company's annual operating profit. shares dropped 9.9%, the biggest decline in two years. tim kendall worked at facebook for almost five years before becoming president at pinterest.
after working for social networks that change the way we use our screens and our time, he has pivoted to try to help people disconnect from their phones and believes tech addiction is a health epidemic. cue moment, a coaching app that aims to reduce phone usage. kendall has bought, funded and taken over as ceo. i sat down with him and asked about tech addiction and how moment will combat that. tim: we want to give you back your time. how do we do that? we basically make you understand how to use it. the first step is awareness. then, we give you a series of daily exercises and tips and tools that actually help you reduce it and bring it into a realm that you deem as healthy usage. what we find when we talk to our users that are able to help reduce usage, on average about 30%, which is significant when
you spend four hours a day on your phone, people notice that even with 30% reduction, their relationships are better. their focus is better and they are generally happier. emily: do you think it is not enough? tim: i think it is incomplete. to use a guide analogy, they are basically giving people a scale. but then they stopped. there is no nutritional values. there is no exercise regimen. that is where we think moment really comes in for people, because we give people guidance on how to actually understand why they are using their phone as much as they are and that exercises to reduce it. emily: you worked at facebook early for many years and helped grow facebook. you worked at interest for many years.
you build products that are part of the problem. how do you feel about that? tim: i feel guilty on the margin -- on the margin, i feel guilty and it has led to this real conviction around trying to help people who want to reduce, reduce their usage. emily: what do you feel guilty about? tim: well, i think that -- candidly, we did not even anticipate when i was at facebook that this would become a health epidemic. that just never crossed any of our minds. in retrospect, i wish that i had that realization. i honestly cannot change the past, but i can change what i am doing now and pursuing this conviction to help people who are struggling, like i struggled. emily: i got to ask you about this latest facebook new york times report that says they were slow to act when it came to russia, they employed questionable tactics to protect their image. is facebook now the one that is threatening our democracy and not people using facebook in nefarious ways? tim: i think facebook is finding itself in such a complex
intersection of the world, right? of government, geopolitical issues, etc. having known those folks, i think they are doing the best that i can. -- they can. emily: you do? tim: you do. the pendulum swings back and forth for all of these companies and i think they are stuck in a moment right now where they are kind of down and people are taking them, sort of relentlessly. emily: do you think they are under some kind of sort of misconception about the good they are doing in the world when we also see so many bad? tim: i don't think so. candidly, i think media today in the current phase is really emphasizing the negative and have kind of forgotten the good that happens every day. i guess my views -- i think they are pretty balanced. i think they are pretty
conscientious about some of the risk factors and some of the damage that the platform has done, and i think they feel a real responsibility. emily: yet, you are starting a product that you will will take time away from some of these companies. say the idea you have works, how do you imagine behavior online changing in five years? tim: what i imagine is people will just use technology, use their phones and more deliberate ways. we have 7 million people who have used moment and many of them have been able to reduce time. as a result, they feel better, they are happier. what i imagine, i think people will learn, what i hope is people will learn if they can moderate their phone usage and get it into a healthy realm, as they define it, they will feel better. emily: how can you make money on this? tim: we actually charge -- we have a premium product that gives you extra tips and guidance and tools to help you
with your usage faster. emily: what about expanding to kids? tim: we have a family feature already. we have that on the margin. i expect that to get even better. although, my view is -- having worked on this issue for the last year, i think adults are generally in denial about how bad their usage is. when we look at our 7 million moment users, the fortysomething's have as much of a big problem as the twentysomethings and teenagers. the notion that it is a kids' problem, our view is the adult modeling is not great right now. it is a huge lever in changing how kids use their phone. emily: moment ceo tim kendall there.
we continue to monitor the raging wildfires in northern and southern california. account of the missing in the butte county fire has risen to more than 600 with more than 60 confirmed dead. it is the most instructive and deadly fire in california history. a cloud of ash has blanketed the bay area, creating air quality levels worse than anywhere in the world. schools and companies closed across the region as firefighters continue to fight this blaze. our hearts go out to everyone affected. stay safe and keep your family close this weekend. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." we are live streaming on twitter. check us out and follow our global news network on twitter as well. i'm emily chang. this is bloomberg. ♪
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