tv Bloomberg Business Week Bloomberg July 14, 2019 9:00am-10:00am EDT
♪ carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." i am carol massar. jason: i am jason kelly. we are here at bloomberg headquarters in new york. carol: this week, the new workers of the world try to make a living in an era of unprecedented change. jason: deutsche bank one back to basics. carol: we sit down with ups ceo to talk about the ever-growing need for speed.
jason: let's begin with that cover story, it is a powerful one. "bloomberg businessweek"'s editor joel weber is here. what a fascinating read. it was not what we were expecting. joel: no, this was the culmination of a year-long project, with an amazing writer who was going to travel around the world and wanted to come to us with something special. so we wanted to come up with an amazing idea to hear from laborers, working-class people who most of us would never hear from. carol: what is fascinating is that it is a global story that took a lot of time and a lot of reporters and translators. joel: so basically, as she went around the world, she would look for people that she thought would embody the spirit of the local community. the beauty of this work is that it captures their voice. we hear from them directly in their voice. not reporting in the traditional sense, it is more of as a told to, being told to the mark and you get to hear from people
working in amazon factories in europe as a syrian refugee, or in electronics in asia. there are cogs in the global economy we do not usually get to hear from. and the moment now is so important because they are facing unprecedented changes in automation, migration, xenophobia, all coming together. jason: i'm glad to put it that out, because this really turns disruption on its head in a lot of ways. we talk about consumers and the benefits we get from these things happening around the world. this shows you the other side. >> that is why we wanted to go big with this. why it took over the whole feature, 10 people in their own words.
there's climate change issues, everything we all face in the world. and yet these people are eking by. that is why we wanted to bring you their stories. carol: joel weber, thank you so much. markets of front and center this -- that's that fed chair powell would signal a willingness to lower rates in his testimony in washington dc jason: to understand what it all means, we turned to our next guest, editor michael regan. plus, we have come a long way since the 2008 financial crisis. lehmans stock is maybe worth something after all. >> if you go back to the g20 meeting, it's not like there was a trade deal wrapped up in a little bow, but huawei is not a focal point of people's concerns. then, you add onto that, a
basically the federal reserve , is going to blank and actually cut interest rates, which is the most important thing traders word about. best traders are worried about. -- important thing traders are worried about. do they have to worry about higher interest rates down the road? it is clear that there will be the one cut in july at the end of the month. beyond that, it is anybody's guess. those two things are a clear way, two of the big worries people had. while the trade war is not resolved at least it is not , escalating further. then we will get this bonus cut most likely this month, and it is often the races after that. carol: valuations are off to the races as well. as we move into another earnings season, i wonder what we will hear from companies. michael: i don't think it will be very good. forecasts are for a drop in earnings for the second quarter and a third quarter is not looking better. fourth quarter, there is still
this pent-up expectations for a terrific rebound. the second quarter might throw cold water on that. it goes back to the notion of lower interest rates. i think people will be happy to look past a little softness in earnings if they think we do not have to worry about interest rates going up. bond yields are not enticing at these levels to move money out of equities into bonds. even though we have seen it these massive inflows in bonds all year, with rates low, people will remain engaged in the stock market. i think you will see some volatility among certain companies, perhaps certain sectors, that what will happen will be more of a rotation into whatever sectors people think are less at risk to all these issues, rather than abandoning the market completely. carol: and if you don't like the
stock market, maybe you can invest in something i like to call the graveyard of stock certificates. [laughter] tell us about this great story you have in the magazine. michael: kind of out of left field. there is a market for stock certificates and bond certificates, a niche market. before computers, obviously, stocks were traded with paper certificates. carol: it is not so long ago. we were talking about how you would give that as a gift to somebody. >> here is a share of coca-cola. carol: right. they were beautiful. disney was a very popular one. disney continued to issue them after they were obsolete as a trade mechanism. what i focused on, and i have been mulling doing something about this hobby for a while, but what caught my attention, the other big hot area of collectors' interest is anything presidential related. you have donald trump, who was the head of a public company with lots of stock and bond certificates.
he meets the presidential collectors' interest. trump stock certificates are very high. the irony to me is that a company that went bankrupt is worthless, now those are among the hottest sellers relatively. there are some be confined for, -- something you can find there , is a trump certificate up for $800. carol: on ebay, right? michael: some are for sale on other sites for $6,000. a lot of times what adds value is who signs them. one was signed by mark twain, a railroad stock. jason: and more closer to our time than mark twain, the financial crisis, companies that no longer exist -- we are talking about lehman, bear stearns, countrywide, people want these certificates. michael: it is a funny part of this market.
there are certain websites that sell these things that have categories like fraud, failures, bankruptcies. they are hot, they are very popular. i think it is anything with a good story behind it. obviously, lehman brothers has an intriguing story behind it as disastrous as it was. that captivates people's interest. carol: it is not just stock certificates, as you mentioned, there was a federal bond certificate signed by -- jason: george washington. michael: it sold for $265,000. that is a fascinating story. they will not tell you who the bidders are at that price. you will hear these guys say -- hedge fund guy or ceo, a lot of times are the bidders for the expensive ones. expensive ones.
carol: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." i'm carol massar. jason: and i'm jason kelly. join carol and me for bloomberg join carol and me for bloomberg businessweek everyday on the radio. fast forward to this week, and germany's biggest bank is giving up on that ambition. jason: that turnaround plan, there have been many of them, the latest, investors are not so excited.
that plays through into the share price on a relative basis. taylor riggs is with us, walk us through it. taylor: it doesn't look good. as you know, in equity markets, sometimes the valuation measure that we use is price to earnings. within the banking world, we use the price-to-book measure. as you can see, deutsche bank in yellow is trading at a very big discount as the price of the shares are below what the assets are on their balance sheet. that is not a good thing. in the u.s., in white, well above 1.00, where markets are higher-priced. deutsche bank and all the european banks are really struggling. carol: such a big gap between the u.s. and european banks. taylor, thank you so much. jason: for more on deutsche bank's latest turnaround, and
its return to its roots, here is our opinion columnist, elisa martinuzzi in london. she has this week's remarks. deutsche bank waves the white flag. >> after more than two decades and trying to build up a business and compete with wall street, they are making a significant u-turn by exiting the global equity trading business. a move of this kind is really quite untested. we have not seen a firm of this size pullout of that business in quite this way before. as part of that, there is going to be shrinking their overall trading business by 40% to and reducing 20% of the workforce overall, cutting 18,000 jobs across the firm. carol: it is massive, a huge restructuring for any firm. certainly for deutsche bank. we get into some of the details, , investors were not impressed, and they haven't been impressed for some time. >> i think this is why it has
been so difficult now to gain investor enthusiasm for this. this is a bank that since the financial crisis has basically just drifted. tweaks around the edges, scaled back there, but tried to keep optionality, and it cost too much and was a drag on the overall growth. not only didn't it lose confidence of investors, but regulators were not comfortable either. the bank has been involved in a host of scandals from rate rigging, to laundering funds, and all of that added to a lack of credibility in the company to be about to thrive. carol: we are talking $18 billion in fines that deutsche bank has paid for numerous things that they have done wrong. what is interesting about the deutsche bank story is that it has been years in the making.
correct? elisa: yes, absolutely. what happened is after the financial crisis there has been a secular shift in the engine that once drove deutsche bank, which is fixed income trading business, which is by no means as large as it used to be. it had not adapted to that reality. not least because, unlike u.s. po's that are driven by a strong domestic economy, the same can't be said for europe area and a region which is at record lows. you also have depressed margins. so you've got a firm that is not quite as healthy at home trying to compete on a global stage. jason: keep talking about that. you talked about record low interest rates, and we may go into a period, and we are getting a lot of signals that we are, where europe may find itself cutting rates even further. so the short-term doesn't look so good, and that may be why investors are down on the plan. elisa: i think that is absolutely true. you have a region where the economy is slowing and the ecb
has not potential further rate cuts, potentially more quantitative easing also on the table. if you look at the earnings outlook for the banks, they are not getting any better. so there is some concern that this plan, though most would agree is suitably radical, may just have come too late particularly across the industry. jason: another top story, protesters in hong kong are bound to return to the streets after the chief executive, carrie lam, declared her controversial extradition bill dead. carol: that bill would allow extraditions to mainland china. the turmoil has raised questions about hong kong's long-term viability. here is politics editor jillian
goodman joining us from london. jillian: it is is externally compelling, you have people in the streets demanding a degree of freedom from china, and there has been a lot of back and forth on the issue of voting specifically to . the law that governs hong kong, or had since the handover from the u.k. in 1997 says hong kong gets to maintain its own separate capitalist system of government and way of life for 50 years. that runs out in 2047. china gets a degree of approval
over the leadership of hong kong. the leader is selected by committee made up of beijing loyalists. there is no popular vote to determine who that is. they have gone back and forth, you saw this in 2014 with the umbrella protests. so this is the latest turn of the screw there. jason: it is interesting when he think about hong kong and its place in the world, this is a political story at large, and that is why it is in this section. it is funny to think about, it could be in any section of the magazine in the sense that hong kong is an economic powerhouse. hong kong is incredibly important to the financial services world. and that in part is why people are paying so much close attention. jillian: absolutely, it is a business story. companies do not want people stationed in hong kong to be subject to chinese law. you don't want suddenly someone who is working in hong kong to run afoul of the government in beijing and sent there for trial under chinese law. it creates complications. jason: this week, to make a point of reference, we had carrie lam, the chief executive of hong kong, come out and say basically in cantonese and english, this extradition law is dead. but that did not satisfy the protesters, because what they really want is for her to actually withdraw it. it seems like a strong point but -- it seems like a small point but it seems important for the
people who are protesting. jillian: absolutely, there is a lot of distrust between the for -- the protesters and carrie lam. she did not withdraw the bill, so it could come back with little notice. unless and until she does, the protesters have vowed to keep opposing it. the longer this goes, who knows what else will be required to really satisfy this latest unrest and put it to bed. carol: coming up, how a car sharing service made a very wrong turn. jason: plus, our global coverage of the new workers of the world. businessweek sits down with 10 working-class folks around the world struggling to make ends meet in an age of automation and globalization. carol: it is a must-read. this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪
jason: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." i am jason kelly. carol: i am carol massar. you can also listen to us on radio on sirius xm channel 119, 91.07 in new york city. jason: am 960 in the bay area and through the bloomberg business app. how car rental app, car2go lost its entire fleet of cars in one day. carol: listening background checks policies in an effort to expand. in chicago were ready. 75 of its vehicles got jacked in one day. jason: it is quite a story. here is the reporter, joshua brustein. joshua: it started on a monday in april, normally a slow day for the car sharing business. there was snow on the ground and they weren't really expecting to see much activity. it was in chicago. they were monitoring the fleet
from austin, texas, which is where car2fo is based. suddenly they saw that all the high-end cars, the mercedes, were headed out of the coverage area. they only operate in part of chicago. a lot of cars, way more than normal all got signed out and headed to the same place. and they started to wonder what was going on. carol: what did they find out? joshua: it turned out they had changed the process for getting a new account. just several days earlier. and apparently -- carol: they made it easier? joshua: it made it easier to get an account. it used to be that every new application was checked by a human, and they went to an automated service. people found this out very quickly, set up dozens of fake accounts and started using them to check out all the expensive cars in chicago. half the expensive cars in chicago were taken on a joyride.
jason: so they were essentially able to give them away or rent them out to people, or as you say, some took them for joyrides, some of them were stripped down. i mean, this is a disaster. joshua: absolutely. the interesting thing, almost immediately, ads started popping up on facebook saying, if you want to rent a mercedes in chicago, and if you have a hundred dollars, i will rent you this mercedes. jason: hit me up. yeah. joshua: and people started trading mercedes and driving around in them. the interesting thing also, this was an unusual event. but this was not the first time these sorts of ads had shown up on facebook. there was a history of this kind of secondary market for car sharing going on in chicago. also in brooklyn. carol: what is it about chicago?
it does seem like it has happened several times, not just to this company, right? joshua: yes. enterprise which operate a car sharing business pulled out of chicago in 2017. they cited high rates of fraud and vandalism. there have also been some problems in brooklyn both with bmw's, a car sharing service called reachnow. carol: the high-end. joshua: yes, it is always the high-end vehicles for the most part. if you want to joyride, you want to do it in a high-end car. [laughter] jason: that is how carol is. carol: i own my car. what is crazy is that these car2go people went to the site in chicago where the cars were meeting initially. they went to see what was going on. joshua: so there is a practice with car sharing companies if a car does something unusual, the first thing you do is send someone to go and investigate. all the cars have gps trackers. there was no attempt to turn
those off during this incident, as far as we can tell. so they started sending people over to figure out what was going on. the company did not want to talk about this, but people who were familiar with the incident said it was a menacing scene. people realized pretty quickly that this was a little bit out of their hands and sort of retreated to figure out the next steps, and eventually police showed up. jason: talk to us about the car sharing business. while lyft and uber, those are ride-hailing and have exploded in popularity, car sharing maybe for reasons like this, how has it not been as successful as people thought? joshua: in part with car sharing, you are going after someone who wants to drive a car. they are more likely to own cars. whereas someone who wants a ride
like uber and lyft. that is more of a taxi service. a lot of times it is a different thing. people want to drive cars, there is still a tendency in the united states to buy those cars. carol: i think you put this in your story, the tension between convenience and security. but is this happening with scooters, cars, or just any company with high-end? joshua: any technology company will be faced with the trade-off. you can make things as convenient as possible, or as secure as possible. there is a tension there. it becomes more acute when you put something expensive in a public space. you asked about scooters, they have had really endemic problems with both front and really a lot fraud and really a lot of vandalism. with car sharing, you find that there is always great to be some level where people want to take these cars either to use them or strip them. carol: coming up, our global cover story, "the new workers of
jason: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." jason kelly. carol: and i am carol massar. still ahead, giving the pedal to the metal over at ups. jason: a growing need for speed across the industry. we speak with the hoteltonightt ceo. carol: normalizing nerd culture. how "stranger things" and the gig economy have created a world where you can profit off dungeons & dragons. yes, it can happen. jason: it is happening. [laughter] we begin with our new global
cover story -- the "new workers of the world." we often hear about the mathematics of globalization and automation on the workforce. jobs replaced by robots. communities left struggling by tech transformations. but what about how the change affects the individuals themselves? carol: a lot going on. our freelance reporter, vauhini vara, spent six months traveling across five continents and wrote a series of stories on working-class people trying to make a living, particularly people in jobs that did not exist a generation ago. she tells their stories through their own words. >> last year, i was hired along with my husband to teach on the semester at sea study abroad program. that was going to take me all over the world. we were traveling to europe, asia, africa, and as a reporter, one of the first thoughts that i had when we were assigned this job was, what kind of reporting project as possible when i'm dropping into each city for one day, two days, five days?
in the meantime, i have been reading a lot of oral histories. there is a writer who is a chinese writer, who wrote this book called "the corpse walker," which is interviews with workers in china, which i thought was just remarkable. i had been thinking a lot about that format. it wasn't something i had tried before. it occurred to me, why not go to each of these places and start talking to workers about what their lives are like, how they came to do what they are doing, what is difficult about it, what is rewarding about it? carol: so let's talk about what you found. it was 10 workers that you end up profiling. there were multiple reporters also involved. there were translators. as you said, it was a global undertaking. tell us about some of the people you met. vauhini: in some ways, it feels like it is not my story because these are stories told in workers' own words. they are all remarkable. people should read the story.
so, i met a man in ghana, who liked tinkering with computers when he was in school. he went to the equivalent of community college, tinkered with computers, later got a job as a taxi driver, which is a sort of low-paying, backbreaking, unrewarding work. and then one day it occurred to him, what would happen if i just go into a store, buy a computer, and bargain with them so i can buy a used computer for a little bit less, and then post it on facebook and whatsapp and tell people that i'm selling it for more than that? that is what he did. he just walked into a store, bought a computer, bargained on the price, and then posted it online. and people came to him and said, we want to pay x amount, which was higher than he bought it for. so next thing he knew, he was building this business as a computer reseller, and he now has quite a successful small business selling used computers that get imported from the u.s.
and europe after they are used there and used by people in ghana. you hear a lot about the kind of difficulties and heartache for people who have working-class jobs in this new global economy and what i really kind of admired most about some of these people is just the ingenuity and the intelligence that they use to get to where they ended up. jason: up next, an installment of "business week talks," with an interview with the ups ceo. he talks about the growing need for speed. carol: summer travel is in full swing. we speak with the hoteltonightt's ceo, sam shank. jason: this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪
street time, or catch up on our daily show by listening in our podcast. find it on itunes, soundcloud, and of course, on bloomberg.com. jason: find us online at businessweek.com and on our mobile app. our exclusive interview with ups's ceo, david abney in this week's issue. carol: in his more than four decades working at ups, he has seen it transform from a simple delivery service to a broader logistics managing the need for a growing need for speed. jason: we spoke with him in our studio in new york. it is the latest edition of "businessweek talks." david: time is certainly a big key now. this new generation has just really gotten used to wanting things right away.
and we see that it has really driven good characteristics in our industry. the focus on next-day air and having things delivered the next day versus the deferred method, that really is where our specialty is. it is our focus. so we are really encouraged by what we see in those areas. jason: and how much do you have to sort of revise the strategy or revise the roadmap in the near term to speed it up? at what point do you have to really change things in the supply chain? david: the key is to be to our customers. if you listen, they will tell you what they are looking for. right now, there are certain things, the reliability, the fact of the brand of ups, the trust people have in our brand, the fact that they can depend on us on a day-to-day basis. those are the things that we are focused on. and as long as we keep alignment with our customers' needs, we will be in great shape. jason: strategically, how much do you worry about amazon? are they a frenemy, a friend, an enemy, competitor, all the above? depends on the business? [laughter] david: this world has gotten way more complicated than having
somebody labeled as a competitor or customer. it is oftentimes a combination. you just have to accept that. the key is making sure we have a mutually beneficial relationship. as long as we do, that is the path that we are following. path that we are following. we feel very comfortable in our position. we feel very comfortable in our position. carol: talk to us about that transformation plan. it is not "just" about getting packages from a to b, but you are working with the health care sector and other sectors. give us an idea of how much becomes more of the transformations versus what you are doing today?
david: we are 112 years old. we have probably been through five major transformations in the history of our company. this is one of those. the message we are giving to our people as this is continuous transformation. there is not a beginning or an end. the way the business world is changing, this is the way of life. and we really believe that our people have accepted that. we focused in three particular areas. first of which is high quality revenue growth. second is increasing our efficiency, using a lot of technology. third is broadening our management team and our culture. cultures are like anything else. they have to change with the times. the sense of urgency is much more making decisions, much more important now. this is where we are focusing our leadership team. carol: i have to ask you about culture. so much of ups culture is someone who has grown up within the company and many past ceo's
have been that way. how much of that works today? how much of that doesn't and that you've got to bring in outside views and outside individuals? david: that's right. i'm a big supporter of promotions from within because i have benefited and so have a lot of other upsers. so is a real strength of our company, the way we know our business. at the same time, with the way things are changing, we do need other expertise and other perspectives and points of view, and that is why of our 12 person management committee, i have three people in from the outside. i'm also promoting upsers at the same time. but we need that mix, that hybrid view that gives us the best of both worlds. jason: when you think about the company looking around the corner, it is part of your job as the chairman and ceo, what is the biggest existential threat to ups that you worry about the most? david: the one that i would
worry about the most is within our control is absolutely the pace of change. we are changing this company and we are changing and rapidly, especially compared to the past. the real hurdle is, we have got to change ahead of our customers. that is the thing we talk about all the time and that we focus on. carol: ups is not the only company trying to stay ahead of changing needs. hoteltonight offers last-minute hotel deals through an app. jason: we spoke with ceo sam shank. sam: i saw this opportunity with mobile. i was looking at my iphone 1. i said, why don't you build something from scratch for the hotel and travel industry on mobile? it is now mobile first. it would do something you could not do with your laptop, which is doing on-demand, what is now called on-demand booking. i call it instant booking. built a sketch on a whiteboard and that sketch is just a couple simple steps to book a hotel room.
and i looked at that and i was like, that is a pretty good idea, i should do that product. then i was like, no, that is a separate company. that could change the way people travel. that whiteboard is now hanging in our lobby and we have in our lobby and we have accomplished that. was that an offer you cannot refuse, or what? >> it was a great opportunity for us to continue our mission with a much bigger platform and partner. airbnb is in 190 countries and has a huge amount of offices around the world. this is going to allow us and hoteltonight to expand globally, as well as working on bringing hotel inventory onto airbnb, which is going to be an amazing opportunity for our hotel partners. jason: talk to us about the modern traveler in a lot of ways. talk about the traveler, but i also want to talk about the hotel business, because for this to work, it had to be appealing
to them. so start with the traveler. what is he or she sort of looking for that this serves? immediacy? convenience? sam: the number one thing that especially the modern traveler and the younger traveler that is bleeding into older travelers like me, is experiences. they are looking for optimizing their lives around having as many memorable and special experiences as possible. in doing so, a lot of those happen to be travel. there are also music festivals or nights out, but travel is a big part of that. with hoteltonight and airbnb, with the unique inventory we have, which is, on --hoteltonight is focused on great boutique and hip and indie hotels and airbnb is focused on authentic, living like a local homes and apartments -- we give the opportunity for people to do that. they can do it for one week at a time, they can do that every night at a time and we serve that market very well.
carol: to get little deeper. i'm serious about the demographics. when i talk to people, it is for like jason with families. it is different types of individuals. who is using hoteltonight? is there one demographic you are really locking into? sam: the older millennials is the category for us. carol: sorry. sam: i missed that, too. [laughter] sam: the older millennials love the tech forward part of hoteltonight, were they can book in three taps and a swipe, the cure should and the deals that we have, but also the use cases. there is an interesting trend where people are staying for longer weekends on sunday night. sunday night is the best day of the week to book a hotel. it is 30% cheaper than any other day of the week. it is a really good travel night. carol: is there a lot of inventory? sam: there is a lot of inventory. leisure travel over the weekend. before the business travel. jason: and check out more of
♪ jason: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." i'm jason kelly. carol: and i am carol massar. you can also listen to us on the radio on sirius xm channel 119 and in new york, boston, washington, d.c. jason: in the bay area, london, and through the bloomberg business app. in this week's "pursuit" section, a review of bud selig's new book "for the good of the game." jason: i spoke with reporter eben novy-williams about the one man who stands tall in the memoir, spoiler alert, it is bud selig. eben: bud selig has a very pro-bud selig view of his 22
years as major league baseball commissioner. he changed the game, but he does not seem to connect the dots between the problems baseball is having right now and decisions he made under his leadership. jason: those 22 years after be some of the most impactful and change-riddled in the history of baseball in a lot of ways. eben: without question. he took over in the early 1990's and immediately led baseball through the strike in 1994, the first cancellation of a world series in dozens of years. baseball had a lot of trust to make up with the american public. it did so over the course of two decades afterward. he led baseball through that. so much of the way baseball is structured right now, the way that the divisions are laid out,
the first wildcard and then the second wild-card, interleague play, the mets and yankees play so many games every single year because bud selig put that together. the world baseball classic. the list is really endless of the decisions but he made, some of them that he forced on owners of them that he forced on owners who did not want to do it to make the game healthier. jason: and he also oversaw the era of steroids, or at least maybe the discovery of steroids and drugs being taken by players. baseball goes crazy over it. cutting away from sportscenter then barry bonds -- jason: in many ways, you could argue that is what brought baseball back from the troubles.
eben: i think that is right. baseball, whether they knew at that moment or not, mark mcgwire was caught with andro in his locker in the middle of that season, baseball certainly benefited from and pushed the mcgwire, sosa years, and the barry bonds home run chase a couple years later. and bud selig essentially takes the stance that as soon as he knew what was happening, he hated every minute of it, did not want to mention it, then was forced by the union to go through this song and dance for years before he could get testing in. part of that is true. the union was very resistant to forcing players to be drug tested. however, it is also unequivocally true that baseball both promoted and benefited from the steroid home run era that now, bud selig is trying to vilify. jason: it could be the run of your life. carol: the perfect story for you. it is not fast, but it might be the most fantastic way to experience the colorado rockies.
>> a whole section about getting out in the outdoors and doing outdoor sports. it is the middle of summer. you might want some inspiration to try something new. last year, one of the copy editors that works on our section, brennan, was like, you know what i want to do? this crazy adventure from colorado where you start from aspen and run 100 miles between all these huts through the rocky mountains. i was like, you want to do that? [laughter] chris: he said, they do it two times a year and they call it hut run hut. because you are going between these mountain division huts. you are kind of running free. apparently, it is an incredible experience. he did it and wrote about it this year. if you want to do with this year, you can sign up. carol: it sounds like you loved it. chris: he said it was unbelievable. obviously, it is an incredible -- it is a slow way to go through the rockies and really experience the wilderness. you see animals, you see stuff that you would never see if you are in a car or even in a bike.
carol: you are not running all the time, right? sometimes you are hiking and doing other things. you are having fun. chris: yes, he said when they were running, they were going like 10 miles per hour, which is not fast, but if you are going 10-20 miles today. jason: 10-minute miles, not 10 miles per hour. [laughter] chris: sorry. jason: that would be six minute miles. which would be quite fast. [laughter] chris: they are going 10-20 miles a day in the mountains, and the huts are often in valleys after they go up over mountains. it is six days, nearly 100 miles, it is a lot of work, but it. is also at times slow and beautiful jason: and of running through the rockies is not quite your jam, how about a game of dungeons & dragons with a professional dungeon master? yes, i said it. it is a profession. carol: amazing. third culture, "stranger things" and a gig economy has created a world where dungeons & dragons enthusiasts can turn a profit. >> dungeons & dragons was part
of a moral panic in the 1980's and 1990's. we forget this today, people thought it was satanic, evil. the religious right really went after this game. now, i included a story, a dungeon master pastor uses it to teach kids their communion lessons and everything. so we have come full circle. ironically, rpg's and tabletop games have had this huge renaissance because people thought videogames are exploding, that is going to kill boardgames. what has actually happened is things like twitch have come in and now, if you had to play d&d there are people i interviewed for the story who have whole separate income streams because people will subscribe to their d&d channel. carol: i just wrote about two numbers. 40 million people playing annually. sales of the game are a 41% in 2017 from the year before.
that is a big boost. >> it is a big boost. and i think also "wizards of the coast," the subsidiary putting up the game for quite some time, they get some credit for that because i think the fifth edition of the game which came out in 2014, made it a lot more accessible. they do a lot of feedback and play testing. it made it accessible and now you can buy it at a big box retailer. you don't have to go to a game store to get access to these products anymore. it made the game a lot more inviting, but also for the elite dungeon masters, a lot more bandwidth to create their own adventures. jason: talk about that. you mentioned technology and the internet. that has fueled the accessibility in a way and also created this commercial ecosystem, this new commercial ecosystem. tell us about that. mary: absolutely.
i talked to a lot of people about how the quality of dungeon mastering has increased as a result of that. jason: i don't know if i have ever heard anyone use the term dungeon mastering. mary: not all dungeon masters are created equal. [laughter] you know how professional voice actors, people who have serious acting chops doing this and making a living at it. it is not just you pay your friend with beers to drop of character sheets, there is a greater expectations of what the game can be. carol: tell us about this guy. mary: he lives in the bay area and, i used to as the lead of the story because i thought he epitomized what we are seeing. he has a twitch stream. he has been playing with his friends. it was kind of an afterthought. he said, let's put it on twitch. now they have subscribers who are paying $4.99 per month to watch them play on sundays. they have four sponsors, including a beer company that they toast on-air. and he also will be your dungeon master. he will do your bachelor party, your kids birthday, he will guide first-time players through a campaign, and he does not do any advertising. he has a website, and a lot of
it has been word-of-mouth from his twitch following. so it is a good example of an amazing side hustle. he loves dungeons & dragons and he gets to do this all the time now. carol: "bloomberg businessweek" is available on newsstands now. jason: also online on businessweek.com and on our mobile app. so what is your must-read? carol: it was a surprising read from mike regan. i loved his story about stock old certificates, bonds certificates from companies that went through really bad times. we are talking about those who went through the financial crisis, and how they are now worth a lot of money. jason: i liked it because, you sort of think about these old dudes collect in these things, but millennials are doing it, too. check out mike regan's twitter
feed. carol: your must-read. jason: i loved the cover story. depending on how you read it, you either come away with this -- check out all of our big interviews from the week, some extra conversations like those ceo chats. carol: great stuff to listen to. more bloomberg television starts now. wanna take your xfi to the next level?
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david: after it did go public, it did go down by 11%. a record decline after an ipo. dara: i love how this interview is starting. i really appreciate that. david: how long will it be where there is no drivers? dara: the better thing than robots alone or humans alone is robots and humans working together. david: someone asked you to interview as the ceo of uber? did you say you already had a job? dara: at first, i said, no way. >> would you fix your tie, please? david: people would not recognize me if my tie was fixed. ok. let's leave it this way. all right.
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