tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg February 10, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
babcock, whose own company zillow was shorted back in the day. plus, making politics less polarizing. facebook is testing reduced political content in newsfeeds. we will have all the details, plus what it has in store for the wildly popular travel. -- popular app. plus, the company's vendor sales as well as its decision to permanently ban president trump. it is a miss on the revenue front. supplies are down but they are seeing big growth in food delivery. i will talk about it with uber ceo tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. eastern time, bloomberg tv and radio. i want to get straight to ed ludlow. walk us through the numbers.
ed: the story of uber is the big boom they have seen in food delivery, particularly the second half of 2020, just wasn't enough to outweigh the decline they have seen in the mobility business. revenue fell 16%, $3.17 billion, below analyst expectations. the story is around rideshare, bookings down by half. the food delivery business, revenue more than doubled during the broader pandemic period. well above expectations. and now the focus turns to uber long-term. executive talking on the call saying that in terms of rapid, or ebitda as a measure, they are confident of hitting that in 2021. the real action they took in the quarter was shedding the money-losing assets, things you and i love, autonomous vehicles, things like that. they sold off some of their stake in the asian ride-hailing
service. we had earnings elsewhere in the marketplace. twitter out with earnings on tuesday. my goodness, look at twitter, up 13%. revenue was a big b eat. twitter is forecasting that growth will slow significantly in its user base. the market looking past that. stock at its highest level in seven years. general motors lower. a lot of talk about electric vehicles with general motors, but they outlined concerns when it comes to the profit profile for 2021 because they are suffering from the same thing automakers are, a shortage in semiconductors. as you know, emily, a lot of cars have a lot of silicon in them. analysts are concerned that that way on the company's profit and it is not able to produce higher profit profiles, bigger trucks and suvs. and lyft up for 20% today.
they did build-tightening in the quarter. -- belt-tightening in the corner. it comes from their profit outlook rest of the year. emily: and we will be hearing from the twitter cfo this hour. we could be getting ready for a pretty big ipo in the world of electric cars. what can you tell us? ed: sources saying that he could ipo as soon as september, or the end of the year. you have already raised $8 billion -- they have already raised $8 billion in the private market. they are well on their way. but they have yet to deliver a car to customers. that is expected in june when they deliver the electric pickup to market. sources telling me they are looking for a new factory site in europe where they could be building the delivery they have with amazon.
emily: ed, we will continue to follow your reporting on that. thank you so much. sticking with markets, gamestop soaring in today's trade, closing just under 20% up, bringing back some of the $30 billion erased earlier. benchmark capital's bill gurley spoke to us about the gamestop, robinhood trading mania, and who might be left to continue to push. bill: how much staying power does the robinhood base have? you mentioned $18 billion of market caps on. the hedge funds were cleared out by the time that happened who is left holding that bag, and how burned are they? the next push may not have as many soldiers left if there is lots of broken soldiers everywhere. emily: it's something that regulators are now
investigating. citadel and other execs, including the ceo of robinhood, expected to testify at a house in stop hearing, set forth -- gamestop hearing, set for february 18. your with us is spencer babcock of zillow. glad to have you with us. first of all, just curious, how you have been watching this retail investor push, and whether you think this is a new phenomenon that is here to stay. spencer: congressional hearings are going to be incredible television to watch, i can tell you that right now. put me in the camp of those that are pleased that there is more democratization of investing product, and therefore a fan of reddit should not make us true
sites. it is very hypocritical and disingenuous for hedge funds to claim that these investors record in aiding -- were coordinating on reddit. that is what hedge funds do. they do it at investor conferences in las vegas. these retail investors are doing it out in the open on messaging boards, and good for them for being that open and transparent communicating about their stock for the i think shortselling hedge funds in particular those that put out short reports that pretended to be research, dressed up as research, but all the art is trying to drive prices down -- [indiscernible] emily: one of those hedge funds try to two short zillow back in 2012. you tweeted about this, "it is manipulating a stock for its own gain. it is not a research shop, it is
a hedge. it is not a research report. 20 to see them claim that retail investors are manipulating stocks. takes one to know one." it's clear which side you are on, spencer. spencer: look, it's a good reminder i cannot tweet after 7:00 p.m. everything i said i stand by. it is infuriating. it is very difficult to be in a company that is shorted. it creates innuendo, uncertainty on the part of employees. business partners start to pull back. it creates a negative cycle that is very difficult to break out of. i do believe that there is a role for regulators to get to the bottom of this, and
requiring them at a minimum -- that would be welcome regulation. emily: do you think robinhood or these other trading platforms are in the wrong here? spencer: there is blame to go around, to be sure. in the case of a platform like robinhood, it is important that companies that monetize data within important business model to disclose that to their users. if you use robinhood and trade for free you should understand that you are the product. they monetize the information about how the stocks are moving and they sell it to others. i think that is a very innovative and clever business model. but i think that should be quite apparent to users so people understand it is happening. emily: you asked joined us to talk about your efforts, and i'm
curious what your outlook is on the market, if this is a force that needs to continue to be reckoned with, and how the changes market dynamics and strategies even for someone like you. spencer: a lot has happened since the last time we talked, emily. you have more high-quality companies design you to go public. it seems like almost every week there is another high-quality company. that is good news for investors like me. that having been said, there is a lot of competition. what is happening is there is a bifurcation happening in the stock market where good stocks -- i would find that as one that can add value to a private company -- the transition from private to public, it is a
tricky time for a lot of companies. having an advisor to help you find your footing is valuable. there are plenty of stocks out there but there are not that many deccan and value -- that can add value. emily: we are almost a year into the pandemic now still working from home, vaccines rolling out slowly. the housing market has been completely disrupted. you started a new thing allowing folks to buy parts of second homes. what is the next year hold? spencer: people are untethered from their office, which is amazing. they no longer have to live where they work. that is the future of work, that many companies are going to continue to have a flexible environment where employees are expected not to be in the office physically but maybe an office
periodically -- maybe a day, a month, couple days a quarter. that will create winners and losers throughout the economy. the winners will be software companies -- obvious ones are zoom, slack. there are tons of startups and i've invested in many of them. a is going to be the traditional office market. companies -- a clear loser is going to be the traditional office market. in the residential space committee is creating also to winners and losers. my former company zillow has consolidated the online real-states based, and companies like my new company allows people to own portions of second homes, and second homes are such a hot part of the market now because in the covid environment and beyond, people want a place to retreat and make memories with friends and family. if you can make that radically more affordable, it is a bigger
part of the market. emily: all right. much to watch. was love--always love having you here on the show. spencer rascoff, cofounder of zillow. coming up, facebook upping content moderation with a new set of tools coming to the u.s. we will have all the details next. and highlighting some big interviews we will have for you tomorrow. i mentioned the uber ceo will join me live at the open. you can see it on television and here it on bloomberg radio. and john zimmer on the back of earnings results. live at 2:00 eastern, i will speak with the bumble ceo, as bumble makes its debut as a republican buddy for i am emily chang full -- as a public company. i am emily chang. want to save hundreds on your wireless bill?
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emily: facebook is testing out a content moderation feature focusing on political content on its news feed. to viewing in canada, present -- debuting in brazil, canada, and indonesia first. talk about the decision to diminish political content here and how it aligns with what they've have done leading up to this point. >> ceo mark zuckerberg hinted at
this on the earnings call last week. he said a lot of people don't like seeing political content in their feet. it is obviously divisive, it pushes people one way or the other. they are going to start testing this idea and show less political content to certain people in their feed. facebook was clear that this was a small part of what people view from only 6% of people's feed, but because it is so polarizing, a lot of people let them rub -- let it rub them the wrong way and they have about experience. emily: ok, but will this be bad for business? kurt: i think there is obviously a rub here, which is that facebook makes money by getting you to come back and you come back when you feel emotional. political content is one of those types of speech and content that probably does ring
people back for some at the same time, since it is a small part of what people see, even if facebook were to decrease it any 5%, that is not -- decrease it when he 5%, that is not going to have a huge impact. not means this will have a negative impact on the business, but to your point, there is a bit of a rub because facebook's whole purpose is to get you to feel something when you see something your feed. emily: meantime the live audio app clubhouse has been on the rise. twitter has a competitor to clubhouse. facebook is reportedly building a product to compete with clubhouse, which is ironic since mark zuckerberg spoke on clubhouse earlier this week and my first thought was, he is probably doing user research. what is your take on this? kurt: i thought the same thing and i think a lot of people did when they saw him on clubhouse. my take is that this is the hot thing at the moment, and certainly overall, stuck at home
with the pandemic, it makes a lot of sense that people want to gather in this way. it doesn't require you to put on a nice shirt, it doesn't require you to even shower. just pop in and talk. that is really appealing right now. what i worry about is you recall the live video trend from a few years ago, and what happened was the bar to create content was too high. it's kind of scary to go out there and speak or do something on live video in front of an audience of people you do not know. i worry this is a similar situation. it is popular with journalists, but when it starts to reach the mainstream public, are people comfortable broadcasting live, or is that too much? i just think we don't know that yet. but for now while we are stuck at home it seems like a cool alternative to what we have been doing. emily: all right, we will keep
watching and listening. kurt wagner, thanks so much for stopping by. ok, coming up, my conversation with the twitter cfo after the company's earnings results brought shares to a seven-year high. this is bloomberg. ♪ are you frustrated with your weight and health? it's time for aerotrainer, a more effective total body fitness solution. (announcer) aerotrainer's ergodynamic design and four patented air chambers create maximum muscle activation for better results in less time, all while maintaining safe, correct form and allows for over 20 exercises. do the aerotrainer super crunch. the pre-stretch works your abs even harder, engaging the entire core. then it's the back extension, super rock, and lower back traction stretch to take the pressure off your spine and stretch muscles. planks are the ultimate total body exercise. build your upper body with pushups. work your lower body with the aerosquat. the aerotrainer is tested to support over 500 pounds.
emily: twitter jumped to a seven-year high after reporting fourth-quarter revenue that beat estimates. i caught up with twitter cfo ned segal earlier today. ned: in the month of january we added more than we added in the last four januarys. we also said when we added a lot of people in march of last year, we expect march to go about 2 0%.
that gives people a sense that even though we will lap tougher comps, we will have lots more people to the service. emily: it seems like a lifetime since we last spoke. last quarter, the capitol rides, president trump banned from twitter, a new administration coming in. how big was the trump bump, and how much traffic do you lose without him? ned: i will give you a couple of facts. we have 50 accounts with more than 25 million followers. 85% of the people who use twitter are outside the united states. whether it is the super bowl or an election in another part of the world or an artist dropping a big album, there are so many great things that happen on twitter everyday, and it is so much more than an account, geography, particular type of conversation. that is why we share that data around january.
we want people to see the breadth of our service for the we had more people join us this past january and the average of the last four january. hopefully that gives people some idea of our ability to add people to the service no matter what is going on around us. emily: ok, but can you share -- ned: go ahead. emily: right. can you share any color about how the service changes given that he is not on there? he was certainly driving a lot of interest and traffic, whether you like it or not. ned: well, coming at this from a very u.s.-centric perspective, but 80% of the people using it from the non-u.s. perspective, you get a different angle on the service. whether it is cricket in india or something entertainment-wise in europe, we had double-digit growth in all of our top 10 markets. it is not just about the u.s.
a public official in the united states is certainly something that brings people the twitter, but there are lots of other public officials in the united states, and the composition in washington hasn't -- conversation in washington hasn't changed in terms the topics on people's minds and people coming to twitter to learn around those topics. whether somebody is a public official or one of us, we want to enforce our policies consistently so everybody who comes to twitter can trust people they see and feel safe being part of the conversation and to make sure that nobody is doing anything to incite off-platform violence. when we do that, more people come to the service and more advertisers come to the surface. emily: he has been suspended from facebook indefinitely, but that decision is going to an oversight board. he has been banned from twitter permanently. a lot of people plotted that decision, a lot of people pushed back. is there any scenario in which you would change that call?
ned: the way our policies work, we have various enforcement options. once somebody is removed from twitter, there isn't a path for them to come back. that is true for public officials, true for anybody else who uses the service. we try lots of different things as alternatives. as jack tweeted about after the ban, we view this often as a failure where there is opportunity for us to continue to challenge ourselves about ways to make the conversation on twitter more constructive. but we want to use labels to provide context and we want to use suspensions to give people the opportunity to change how they show up on the service. but ultimately we need to be able to ban people when they are inciting violence off the platform or not following our rules. emily: twitter cfo ned segal there. coming up, a special airing of
emily: a year ago the coronavirus pandemic crept into the united states after taking a devastating toll across the globe. the early u.s. outbreak was centered in washington state, just miles away from microsoft's headquarters. there, ceo satya nadella made the call that a significant number of the company's employees could work from home. now his focus is shifting not just keeping employees safe, but keeping them engaged, with the
rise of microsoft's cap product-- chat product teams. microsoft's stock has continued to rise during his seven years at the helm after languishing more than a decade under his predecessor. he showed this key guidance with us three years ago. satya: it is not changing everything, it is changing what needs to be changed. emily: since then, microsoft market cap closed $1 trillion, closing in on $2 trillion. but with big tech scrutiny in washington and rising competition in china, n adella's next avenues will be just as fickle. 20 meters microsoft ceo such an adult -- joining me is microsoft ceo satya nadella. satya: thank you so much, emily, great to be with you. emily: the pandemic has underscored how technology is
helping governments and families through this, and microsoft teams has been a huge part of that. give us a snapshot of how much teams has grown through the pandemic. satya: we talk a lot about remote work, but more than 50% of the workforce, whether it is an health-care or retail or critical many factory, has -- critical manufacturing, has to be at the site. one of the things that got upended across industries is how you connect people. if you have someone on the front lines and an engineer working from home, how do you connect? teams growth was not just about knowledge workers collaborating, but it was really helping front-line workers and knowledge workers come together to keep business continuity in our society and economy going. i shudder to think what the economic to what he would have been or -- economic activity would have been or the state of services we have today would have been but for the state of today's technologies.
in that cloud architecture. teams clearly has been a massive growth story for us, but it is mostly because the context of the constraints and how to overcome this. emily: now you are on to what you believe will be the next massive line of business, employ ee experience tell us about your latest product. satya: the pandemic has shined a light on how important the experience of employees is. when you are remote in particular, you want to be staying engaged with your business and your company and its sense of purpose and mission. you want to be able to collaborate between the folks on the front lines, knowledge workers, 20 be able to actually start learning as a new employee, how do i build the knowledge capital bite learning from others. i need to be able to find them online and learn from them, as
well as the learning content needs to be delivered more in the workflow tools used every day. we have had to introduce things like virtual commutes and so on to help people with transition. putting these things altogether, employee engagement, learning, collaboration, well-being, into one experience platform is what it is all about. i think it represents a new category of creation moment. if you look at the journey we have been on with microsoft 365, we started with individual tools and it became a collaboration suite and now we think it is going to get into a new space of an employee experience, holistically thinking about productivity, not just narrowly, but all of learning and well-being and collaboration. emily: if you spend your whole day in teams or outlook, are you putting it all in one place?
satya: in fact, it is the exact opposite, which is to say use the tools you are using for, for example, any of your communications needs or deep work needs. in the context of that, let us bring in the other people you want to work with, the learning content that is going to make you more productive, the well-being not just you need in order to make sure you have the transition. that is the main purpose of the employee experience, to not introduce one more new experience you need to go to, but to bring the experience you need and the tools you are using every day as part of your work. emily: could this be your next $10 billion business? satya: i believe experience -- hcm, human capital management software is there, but it is more about operations through the entirety of the business, whether it is in finance,
marketing, engineering. we think this could be in the years to come and the decades to come we will talk about it like the crm cloud cory -- crm category. emily: you have an outspoken about how work is suffering in the work at home environment. what concerns you so much about working from home, and this remote work period as it drags on? satya: i would say my main thing is not just to have new dogma about anyone type of work. coming out of this crisis perhaps or this pandemic we are all going to recognize the importance of flex ability. there is real reasons people may want to work from home, but it might be in different times for different people and it will be different by geography and different by business function. we need at least from workplace
policy perspective as well as the infrastructure and the y tooling perspective to build for that flexibility. i more fall into the camp of let's make sure we have built in the policies and infrastructure in the tools for maximum flexibility because none of us will want to be constrained anymore, whether it is by the place or the time or location, even. emily: what has been the hardest part of work from home for you personally as a leader? satya: i think for me it has been the social capital that gets built in so many different ways when you are able to see the body language and able to learn from the cues by watching people. some of the social capital is hard to create sometimes.
meetings can become very transactional. to me that has been the hardest. i'm not saying that somehow we should think remote work is inferior. there are times when remote work can be very productive. at the same time we need to bring in more innovation together more than others to start bridging the social capital creation capabilities. emily: do you think work from home can be stifling innovation? satya: in fact, we are collecting a lot of data, and the reality is let's take our game studios, the one place where we have seen challenges is that the game studios have a tough time and work from home to be able to bring people together to in fact collaborate and watch other gamers and get the inspiration to create new content. clearly there are some places where innovation does take a hit. at the same time when i look at
what is happening around the data around get-- github, it is fascinating how the world has come together even on the open-source cited to create software and innovate. i wouldn't say there is one answer. there needs to be some structural change, perhaps, wherever there has been an impediment to creativity and innovation, one has to go back and ask what is that structural change that will allow us the next time we have to work remotely or with other constraints, how can we continue to innovate. i think the solution for every functioning industry is not there today, but i think it will be. emily: what do you think it is that the tech industry is doing wrong? are they too big, too powerful, abusing that power? satya: i don't think big by itself is bad, but competition is good.
emily: it's been seven years almost to the day as we tape this that you took over as ceo, and since then the stock has a decade across the $1 trillion market cap. if you could pick one think, what is the most important thing that you did right? satya: it's stunning to me that seven years have passed. if i had to sort of -- having grown up at microsoft, perhaps even on day one when i started, of course it was a completely new job and i recognize that, the response ability of being a ceo is different from that one step removed. but i came at it, i think,
emily, from that sense of pride in what this company represented . enforcing perhaps that mission, sense of purpose, and then having this culture has been the most important thing, because they are talented people, the opportunity, whether it was cloud or other technologies, was clear. with any company you have to go back to the very basics of why you exist, and if you don't exist, will anybody miss you, being able to ask and answer those questions, having a culture that even allows you to really honestly answer those questions is the most important thing. and as an insider and microsoft, i always felt that. that is when i started with and that is how i start my seventh year with.
emily: what advice would this satya nadella given that satya nadella seven years ago? satya: the thing that was the steepest learning curve for me as ceo was understanding what does it mean to have alterable constituents -- multiple constituents. people talk about it is customers, employees, other stakeholders. to date -- today, will fight -- today, multi-stakeholder capitalism is the topic every one is talking about. but how do you grapple with it? i divide by week into multiple stakeholders. it is about harmonizing that into the core of your business model as well as your operation as a business. that has probably been the thing that having a framework for it -- i feel fantastic about the work of the entire team and
microsoft, because you need to have a business model fundamentally where the world around you is doing well. if that is broken, it is very hard to fix, even if you have business performance. if the world around you because of your business performance is not doing welcome that is a social contract that cannot be put back together. the advice i give any ceo is to ask, and it has got to be managed every day, not something you take for granted. emily: you are now on your through the administration, u.s. presidential administration, as ceo of microsoft. if there is one thing you would want this administration to do that would make a difference for microsoft, what would it be? satya: i think for this administration and the last administration, the most important thing is how do we get past this pandemic, because even as we speak, if you think about some of the big challenges we have around core logistics of
delivering the vaccine, the vaccine supply chain, i feel the private sector needs to do its job and do it super well. we have many capabilities. even the government needs to do its job, and if anything, we have all come to recognize the strength in our institutions in the private sector and in the public sector, and how they all both need to be correlated, and quite frankly, governments are the most capable coordinating agencies we have. we need more of that going forward. emily: the power of big tech is being scrutinized by regulators around the world, lawmakers around the world, and regular people around the world. what you think it is that the tech industry is doing wrong that makes so many people wonder, are they too big, too powerful, and abusing that power? satya: a couple of things. big by itself is not bad, but
competition is good. it is not just company, but the point i made--not just competition, but the point i made earlier, you need to have a business model that is aligned with the world doing well. that is what is being litigated, that there are certain categories of products with the unintended consequences of the growth in that category, or lack of competition in it, create issues. that is what i think people are looking at and saying, hey, what is the fix for that. but i don't think big by itself is bad, but competition is good, and every business, in particular the businesses that are large and have high scale, the unintended consequences of your scale cannot be dealt with after the fact. they need to be dealt while you are scaling. emily: when it comes to the deplatforming of president trump, for example, should facebook or google or twitter or twitch have the power to save we can and cannot hear from? if not, who should? satya: this is another one of
those places where unilateral action by individual companies in democracies like ours is just not long-term stable. we do need to be able to have a framework of laws and norms which are societal norms around internet safety and what is the public square that really is in alignment with thriving democracy. we just need to get to a stable state in that, because otherwise, depending on any one individual ceo in any one of these companies to make calls that are going to really help us maintain something as sacred and important as democracy in the long run there is no way that i.s. is a citizen would advocate for. emily: slack has alleged that combining teams into office is anticompetitive. what is your response to that and how does the landscape change now that slack has been
bought and is part of this figure entity--figure entity?-- bigger entity? satya: i think it's and salesforce have been successful so the question would slack have existed if not for the free access of the windows platform? they did not have to call microsoft or go through any of our app stores or get our permission compared to the other platforms they are available on. we provide the most open platform on windows, and even office 365. you can integrate with any application, and people use it. there is slack usage and office 365 usage. same thing with salesforce. the fact that they are combining, we will compete with them and provide them access to our platform, and then i think they should measure it by what type of success they had on top of our platform. emily: you work at microsoft
through its own antitrust battles and you remember what that was like. it was called the lost decade, if you will. what cultural risks do you believe these companies faced, even if they are not broken up? satya: i don't know if there are real parallels between what happened with microsoft and any of them. but i think the cor --e i always go back, if you have a business model where if you are doing well around you, people are doing well, and that is something that your own employees feel, that i think that things will work out culturally. when that is not true, i think it is very, very hard. one of the things i feel -- as somebody said, you gotta keep it simple. what you say, what you do, and what you think all need to be consistent. you can't have real distance between those three things. and that is what would be my advice to anybody, starting with
emily: what are your biggest concerns about a rising tech industry in china? satya: i think that, first of all, there is no god-given right for the u.s. tech companies to take for granted that there cannot be other tech powers and tech spheres. if anything, rising competition in the world, whether it is from europe, china, or the rest of asia, that those in the west coast of the united states need to be more grounded in, because we celebrate our own advances far too much and we should be
more looking to see what is happening in the world and how relevant is our technology in the world. from that perspective, i am a big believer that the world is better when--world does better when there was real competition across the globe and there is more technology that is diffused throughout. that said, national security concerns are real concerns, and that is for nationstates to legislate on. but i think for private companies like ours, we should be thinking about how good is our technology, how useful it our technology around the world, and welcome competition wherever it is coming from. emily: microsoft has tried to buy tiktok and it didn't happen. why did you want to buy tiktok? satya: i think tiktok has achieved a lot of success in being able to take a new media format like short-form video and create a very interesting property. we had a vision of what we would want to do with it, including, for example, some of the very
real concerns around national security. emily: would you be interested in other social-media properties? satya: we today have, emily, whether it is minecraft or xbox live or github, one of the things that is not well understood in the world is we have high scale properties like that that we are engaged in making sure, for example, what does internet safety look like, how is the quality of the dialogue on the linkedin life form, what does moderation on xbox live look like, how do we think about github and making sure that community is thriving. to me, i'm very focused on the properties we have, scaling them, and scaling them without these unintended consequences, in particular around internet safety. emily: microsoft is teaming up with gm to commercialize self-driving cars.
talk to us a little bit more about what we will see in terms of microsoft's mobility play. satya: it is an interesting combination. gm, an incumbent, and a new entrant, both relying and depending on microsoft's cloud computing technology to build their own computing platform. that is what we want to replicate broadly in the auto industry as well as in other industries, because we think that the model that at least i have is that this is not one vertically integrated company like microsoft. it is about digital technology being much more evenly spread across every tech -- every industry becoming more like a digital tech industry. that is what we intend to do even with these partnerships. emily: we are seeing a huge pushback against the establishment and whether it is the capitol riots for individual investors drumming up the price of gamestop or the
unionization of tech employees. do you see it as a fundamental shift in power from institutions to individuals? and how do these trends inform your next seven years as ceo of microsoft? satya: that's a great question, emily. in some sense i'm still learning what this shift looks like, but i would say the core principle of institutions and institutional strength that fundamentally distributes power is a good thing. that is kind of what democracy is all about. fundamentally, democracies were about institutions that actually distributed power. so any institution that centralizes power will have more challenges in the long run because they won't be as resilient as distributed powers. from that perspective, i think we can take a lot of hope from what is happening. but we also have to watch how this plays out so that we really
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