tv Bloomberg Markets European Close Bloomberg March 9, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm EST
guy: live from london, i'm guy johnson. alix steel is a new york -- is in new york. we are counting you down to the european close on "bloomberg markets." the biden stimulus package will power global growth, according to the oecd. a swiss italian pharma firm has agreed to manufacture the sputnik vaccine in italy. last week, the european medicines agency started a review of the shot, and european leaders are posed to affirm their commitment to a tech tax. we are starting to see a bounce back, but europe was up yesterday, so actually, today is rather a muted response compared to what we are seeing on the nasdaq. we are still up by 0.7% and
getting a bit on the bond market. feels like we haven't seen that for quite some time. alix: here's a headline in the u.s. for you. apparently the house is going to vote on the stimulus bill tomorrow. we had thought they might do it today. they will vote on that one point $9 trillion stimulus bill tomorrow -- that one point $9 trillion stimulus bill tomorrow. in the u.s., you have lower yields, a monster move in the equity market, particularly in tech. gamestop, it is game on again. that stuck up at one point by over 21%. ark investment also remounting -- also rebounding. you are seeing a little bit of heaviness in the three year. i highlighted this because we have $3 billion coming online at 1:00 p.m. just how sloppy will it be? crude is a little bit lighter as well after a monster rally, taking a break as the dollar trades a little heavy as well. guy: interesting.
we are seeing greece reporting its highest daily rise in covid-19 cases since november. . using about the summer, using about -- you think about the summer, using about greece and vaccine passports, and a lot of other countries think about that. let's dig a little bit deeper. abigail doolittle has the details. abigail: what i difference a day makes. after a really red day yesterday for big tech and the various indexes, lots of green on the screen. the nasdaq 100 up 3.2 percent, it's best day since november. the faang index up 4.8%, it's best day since last summer. finally, the golden dragon china etf, today up 5.2%. yesterday, down 7%, the worst day since march 16. today the best since march 24. as you were mentioning, it is
all about yield. when yields go up, there is a pressure on yield concerns. another influence could be the biggest market weight to the major averages, and that is apple. if we look at the bloomberg terminal and take a look at apple, apple is basically in a correction. the idea is probably not a question of whether or not it hits the 200 day moving average, but win, and perhaps how far it will go below. you can see over the last five years, the various times it has gone below that, it tends to do so by 10% to 20%. this may suggest more volatility ahead, and the big determination, yields on a year-to-date chart, it is pretty amazing. the 10 year yield, the backup now, up 52 basis points. the biggest backup and record is probably going to be the case this year, and the trend is your friend, suggesting we could just see that 10 year yield drift
towards 2%, as many strategists are thinking. if that is the case, maybe more pain ahead for tech and volatility. alix: really good set up. joining us now is john bilton, jp morgan asset management head of global multi-asset strategy. what do you make of tech versus yields? have we seen the bottom in yields? have we seen the bottom in tech? john: we have to take a broader look at what tech represents. it is a secular growth play. but at the moment, we are in a world where growth isn't has scarce as it was over the last few years. we are talking about stimulus still. we see earnings do generally ok. a lot of macro earnings are coming in below expectation, so yields are going to reflect that better growth outlook. when growth is not scarce, you are not necessarily going to overpay as much as perhaps you were for a sector or an industry which has got that more
resilient growth story around earnings. perhaps you will be more willing to take those, to look at those value sectors, which is what we have been seeing. first and foremost, growth is not going away for tech. we still see earnings growth within the u.s. somewhere around 20% this year for the tech stocks, which is roughly in line with the market. it really was the area that group, earnings of about 6% versus market declines of the middle teens. what we are seeing then is that folks will pay up for it. but now we've got that backdrop, a broader base of growth which supports a broader base of sectors. tech does not have quite the scene it did have. -- quite the sheen it did have. but if tech is safe where it is, that would mean quite left evaluations -- quite left evaluations will continue to could -- quite lofty valuations
will continue to come down. as you are saying, it is about growth, and growth is also driving that move in bonds. guy: 1.55% on the 10 year. how much higher does that go? john: i think you've got a couple of forces in play. you've got the repricing of growth, with concerns around inflation and some of the issues there. i think what we have seen is a fairly rapid repricing of growth. could it go further? certainly. we would see possibly the 1.70%, 1.80% range, but not much higher than that. we still have extraordinarily easy monetary policy, so central banks are keeping policy rates very low, and of course, we expect to see a recommitment to that from the fed and from the ecb, that even as growth is beginning to improve, we expect
them to remain very easy. this is almost the opposite of the taper tantrum that happened over recent days. it is positive for risk assets. the markets and yields can rise, but more slowly now as they are probably capped by that central bank easy policy we have in the background. alix: we talked about this with mark mobius earlier in the program, that you have seen yields rise in the u.s., nominal gdp rise, and real gdp rise, but the issue is you haven't seen nominal gdp and real gdp rise in other areas, even though they are still dealing with those higher rates. i wonder how you look at that. we might be able to handle it here in the u.s., but it has a potential he negative effect everywhere else you look. john: not necessarily. i think you are seeing it in some regions. some of the asian data we have seen coming through, the growth has been really significant. china has now regained and
surpassed its pre-pandemic peak erms of growth. there are other regions doing very well. we are going through a period at the moment where some of the data in europe lingering from some of the lockdowns over the winter has been lackluster, but make no mistake, there's reasons to be bullish on europe as well. number one, we do have the next generation fund, the fiscal package from the european commission, which is significant. remember, as we rotate towards more of a value style market, certainly there is upside for those deep value sectors, particularly the banks and the financials. if you look in europe, it is a little over 0.5%, whereas in the u.s. financials, it is never 1.5 times -- a little over 0.5 times, whereas in the u.s. financials, it is over 1.5
times. guy: if you take a look at the compositions, certainly at the large-cap index is in europe, there's a lot of international revenue there. using about what is happening with the dollar right now, and i would be curious to think about -- you think about what is happening with the dollar right now, and i would be curious to get your take on that. as you say, valuations may be more positive than anywhere else in the world, but you get that global exposure. do you want to avoid domestic europe and buy international europe? john: i don't think so. i think what you're looking for are the same type of trades we are seeing coming through, that cyclical rotation, that value rotation that is accorded by better global growth. i think the situation we saw during the 2010s, where europe had a banking crisis which obviously caused a second recession, we are not seeing the same kind of set up at the moment.
so while it may be that the u.s. is in the driving seat for growth at the moment, i wouldn't write off global recovery. when it comes to currencies, yes, the euro has rich end up relative to the dollar. it has obviously weakened a little bit in recent days, but one thing i would look at is it is still well below what we would consider fair valuation, which would be well north of $1.30 to the dollar. in currency today, while at the margin it could be a headwind if the euro does strengthen, by and large, we feel that europe is quite well set up with a currency below what we consider its fair value. alix: what country has the potential to catch up with the growth we are going to see from the u.s.? john: i think the u.s. stands out pretty strongly at the moment in terms of it overall level of growth because, going back to the main story here, which was tech, the u.s. does
have a large growth he -- lay large growthy -- have a large, growthy, tech dominated bent to its index. we look at some of the small-cap domestic plays geared towards the general reopening of the u.s., and when we look more broadly around the globe, some of the areas have struggled recently have been other places with those big exposures to tech, longer duration equities, like china, etc. at the same time, areas that have a decent commodity angle have been generally doing that little bit better. the u.k. has quite a deep value component to it, and after a wild last year where it really was a core performer, the index is starting to pick itself back up again and turn this trade flow as this particular environment continues. we recently saw it in
commodities and a rotation toward value. guy: we will pick up on one of those countries you just mentioned, china, next. this equity market is getting dinged pretty badly over the last few days. john bilton, jp morgan asset management, is going to stay with us. look at what is been happening over the last month. that market entering a bear market, down by 12% on the month , a little more depending on which perspective you take, and terms of which index you look at in china. but china certainly has been suffering. what do you do with that? do you buy it now? is there more to come? we will talk more about that any moment. this is bloomberg. ♪
>> what they will do is allow a slow down turn. they don't like the volatility. that is one thing they have to be careful about. but all they have to do is but one word from the government, and the market will go up. guy: mark mobius speaking to alix and diane the last hour, talking about the chinese downturn in stocks. still with us, john bilton, jp morgan asset management head of mobile multi-asset strategy. we saw china stepping into the equity market overnight. still finished down, and it looked like maybe the state will have to buy more to stabilize the market. for investors, international investors, do you want to be part of that process when you see the state stepping in? do you want to step in with them? the chinese equity market has taken a big beating. is it the place you want to invest capital at the moment? john: first and foremost, let's look longer-term once again.
china is a longer-term growth story. it still has significant outside potential in gdp terms. i think when it comes to broad buying in this case, i think we got to look at a couple of these longer-term facts. first and foremost, you look at the sectors which really drove emerging markets last year, it was the tech sector, consumer discretionary, communications. it was all of this sectors represented in the very large tech sector within the chinese index. one way to think about it is the first phase of the recovery last year, what we have seen was very positive for those big tech names in china, in the same way that it was in the u.s. we've now gone through a phase more about a cyclical recovery kind of phase, and that is why this was leaning perhaps more into some of the broader asia
ex-china emerging markets, cyclical tech like semiconductors, and now we are seeing rates moving upwards. we are going through a slightly different phase of the recovery. we are responding to global growth, but this is perhaps more neutral for those cyclical tech plays. perhaps at the margins, still a bit negative for those tech plays in paces like china or civil reason that they are non-duration equities, but it is much more positive at the margins for those plays. it is like things you might find in latin america and other regions. it is interesting also, we look across china, the earnings revision ratios, how fast they are upgrading versus downgrading their numbers. it is around neutral for china, so looking forward, it feels like the growth upside to earnings is perhaps not so good here, and instead, it is some of those other parts of emerging
markets which potentially have room to catch up, place like india, taiwan, south africa that have had strong earnings revisions. the issue we face with china is 36% of emerging markets, and then hong kong will add onto that as well, which correlates well with china, and then we got a very significant --, and that rotation trade is a positive for emerging markets. at the same time, we are seeing chinese equities under pressure. perhaps it is a little too soon to be stepping back in. alix: two points there to unpack. one, you have taiwan, korea, south africa, india that may do well, but they also import 11 commodities versus latin america. but they have a lot of geopolitical problems in different countries, like lula getting released from the carwash scandal, and stocks go down.
how do you organize your portfolio around em with those risks now? john: i think we have long considered two axes for every investment you make. when we think about adding an exposure into the portfolio, we are going to look for that trade-off. we look at emerging markets in general, and we are seeing the same kind of rotation that we are seeing another markets, like in the u.s., for instance, between value and growth. when we break it all apart, we don't feel there's a compelling case to be adding to emerging markets at the moment. there's one where it is geared to global growth, but it's got some headwinds in the growth to value rotation we are seeing. instead, we would rather be looking at p -- as purer plays in places like europe, like japan, rather than emerging markets as a block. guy: how are you advising your
clients to get exposure to commodities? do you believe commodities are going to continue to run higher? that is probably the question i should ask. if you do believe that, how do you get exposure? a sector strategy, a country strategy, individual etf strategy? i am curious what you tell people when i asked that question. john: commodities are an interesting angle, very procyclical he correlated to global growth. if you've got a growth portfolio, in theory you should be getting the same support the commodity market is feeling at the moment. but in many cases, there is no one-size-fits-all exposure. it depends very much on the type of opportunity set and asset markets they can be exposed to. if you are thinking about countrywide exposures, place is like the u.k., australia, south
africa have got more of a commodity gearing, but at the same time, you have to balance that against the overall index risk that you are taking on. if you are thinking about commodities continuing to move up, it is because of this improvement in global growth. we would still argue that i diverse portfolio with a bit of value tilt, a bit of cyclical tilt is going to give you good exposure to that global recovery, which we hope we continue to feel throughout 2021. alix: is it a super cycle? john: for commodities? i would have to talk to a commodity strategist about that. but we have seen a decent spike for oil prices. some of the recent moves adding further support, and again, commodities are broadly geared to the overall global cycle, so if we continue to see upside, we should be expecting further demand growth in commodities. whether that constitutes a structural super cycle, i think i would still prefer to play it for a broad global growth
♪ alix: europe's second auto parts maker is hurting from that chip shortage. continental saying profitability will be held back, and this could drag on to the rest of the year. the ceo spoke with bloomberg earlier today. >> it is an industry problem, not only in the automotive industry. you see it in consumer electronics all over the place, an industry which was increasing last year in demand. that is where the automotive industry was in a standstill,
and that is where, since then, the automotive industry is in catch-up mode. that is why we have started this year with subdued speed, which is mainly driven by the semiconductor shortage, but also by the coronavirus pandemic. we expect for this year still a marked uptick of 9% to 12% during the course of the year. however, we expect as well that the shortage of semiconductors, as well as other raw materials, will still lag through the full year. guy: the ceo of conti talking earlier on. i think about this and these -- think about this in terms of the scale we are seeing. this is data from last week. the average over the last six weeks, 0.2.
prices up 8.2% last week versus 6.7% sick week -- 6.7% six week average, so these prices are going through the roof right now. alix: the fed, for example, will look at that and say transitory, but how long is transitory? maybe the supply chain will get fixed, but if you want to secure your supply chain, that also takes a long time to do if you want to in-house it, for example. guy: there's also talk about bringing more manufacturing back , and it highlights the risk when we come to taiwan, as well. up next, the european close. we will deal with the details in just a moment. this is bloomberg. ♪
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european equity market. it looks ok. you compare it with the state -- certainly seeing a huge bounce back in text states that. -- in tech stateside. certainly european equities have been outperforming by and large. the intraday today takes us up to 420. up around .9%. going throughout the session. negative legacy out of asia. put that in the rearview mirror. what we have seen is a bid back into the bond market. the last five days worth paying attention to. the german 10-year, we are -30 right now. we saw yields come down. we picked up a little bit as the session has progressed. nevertheless on a five day basis we have seen a trip sideways.
you are not getting the same big effect in united states, but the drift is sideways to upwards. let's take a look at what is happening with the individual markets. under permits for the smi. -- underperformance for the smi. today the ftse 100 up .3%. the dax outperforming. we have seen a big focus on the chip sector and therefore the car sector. we will talk about that again in a moment. we saw the ceo just a moment ago. let's look at the sector breakdown get an idea of what has been driving us today. technology, we have some. there is a technology sector. technology driving things to the upside, up 2.73%. travel and leisure trading as well. sectors that have been beaten up back, and some of the pay and is also catching a bid. a reversal of what we saw
yesterday. the miners are getting hit as the story around commodities unwinds. banks have been doing well. the car sector also coming under a little bit of pressure. really strong yesterday. let's start out with the asset management sector. standard life down 7.52%. dividends under pressure. it is the target, the forward-looking indicators that the analyst focused on did not get what they were looking for in terms of the guidance. that is been reflected in the stocks, down 7.5%. continental under pressure. we have known about the chips of shortage for some time. incapacity of the peer group a little underwhelming. we are going through huge shift in the automotive sector. big tier one suppliers like continental are feeling the
blunt -- the brunt of that as we shift from the combustion engine to the electric motor and huge amounts of r&d are required. itv, a real bounce back today and during the session. this is the uk's biggest commercial broadcaster. pointing to april as seeing a massive bounce back in terms of ad space. that is when the u.k. economy will open. i think from memory, i do not have this in writing in my diary, that is when we start open and the economy will pick up and we will see huge pickup. itv up 4.5%. alix: is it written in permanent eight all around your house? -- in permanent ink all around your house? guy: it is written in highlighting pens see cannot miss it. not that i need to. it is permanently imprinted in
my brain. alix: i look forward to that day. here in the u.s. -- new york is lowered to 60 to get the jab. lab experiments shows pfizer and biontech able to neutralize the strain in brazil. sam fazeli joins us now. this is good news. what is your confidence in the efficacy? sam: in terms against the variants? alix: yes. sam: we have seen some data for johnson & johnson that is about it. i am still wanting to see these vaccine tested in real life against the variants. the data today is a peer-reviewed version of the data we saw a few weeks back. i've seen data from other independent labs, not suggesting
they have done anything different, but this is pfizer and biontech themselves that show different ability and the vaccines ability to neutralize the variants. there are methodological aspects to this paper that make me wonder whether the data is directly translatable to the actual virus variants. guy: the big story in europe is a swiss pharmaceutical company has agreed to start manufacturing the spotify vaccine, -- the sputnik five vaccine, which was produced in russia. that is a huge moment for europe and will have long-lasting geopolitical implications. we do not know whether the european medicines agency will of cleared it by the time we start to see the first shots rolling off the production line. what is your take about what europe is doing? is it a huge step into the unknown in turning towards this
russian shop? a lot of cold water was poured on it initially. sam: people do that with the astrazeneca vaccine. i was critical of the data it when it first came out, it got better as time went on. i do not care where a vaccine comes from in terms of the geography which it was studied, so long as that data can be applied to another population. the question is whether the european union regulators are happy to approve this vaccine based on the data generated in russia. we know the approved vaccine from pfizer biontech was only tested in the u.s.. if it is manufactured in the european union, that i do not think you can have a worry about the quality of manufacturing, if that was a worry. the data looks decent. guy: would we ever be -- alix:
would we ever be in a situation where different countries approve different vaccines which makes traveling to different countries more difficult? sam: that is a risk. i have to say we know the vaccines are pretty effective, including the sputnik v vaccine. the point is that within the european union, you will see differences. hungary has started using the vaccines, certainly not the same vaccines the european union has been pushing out. you will have that. this comes back to the conversation of what you do with the vaccine passport or the two green badges or whatever they're called in different countries? that becomes the question. guy: what are you seeing in the data in terms of the way this third wave is affecting europe.
i noticed greece has just posted the highest numbers of posted cases since november. what is your assessment of europe's grip on the virus? sam: i am raising my eyebrows. i am confused by the different dynamics. in france it is slowly rising. in spain they brought it down. then you have italy where the cases are going up. i am not sure what is going on except if it is to do with the type of lockdowns, people's adherence to the rules, and then the variants that may be causing an issue. that could be a combination of all three of these. alix: is it possible for european countries to go different ways? you have italian cases going one way and greek cases going another way? sam: there is not much you can do. i am sure italy did not want this.
it did a good job until a few weeks ago. it could be to do with the variants, like b117 is much more transmissible than the other variants. whatever method you had before, the virus can overcome some of these. what can you do? you have to wait and see and you might end up with like the germans and will sell in france -- and moselle in france. guy: what you see for the summer? we are about to talk to the iata director general. he is hoping for a solid summer of travel. what is your assessment of the trajectory europe is on? sam: if they can get the vaccine rolling and the vaccine shows the efficacy we have been seeing, and the variants do not cause any major issues, i think we will be in good shape and you and i can go to the pub
together. alix: no fair leaving me out. sam: [laughter] alix: i am cool. guy: international travel, long-haul. i do not see that for a while. sam will be back in london soon and having his shot. very dismissive of my reaction when i had mine. great fun with that. alix: it was a good time. sam: had you been infected before by any chance? guy: i think i probably had been. i do not know. sam: that might be you basically did not react if you were getting a booster. i do not know if i was infected. let's see. i will buy a pint. guy: sam is walking this back. alix: he definitely is. he was not that kind. guy: the day after i had it, sam
talking to me on radio? i look forward to seeing him next week. alix: pints all around. guy: will get him on tv the day after and see how good he is. sam fazeli back in london soon. we will talk more about the travel sector in just a moment. alexandre de juniac will be joining us, iata ceo. this is bloomberg. ♪
all but grounded just about every aircraft. bookings struggling to recover with the international air transport association saying today the industry is still very vulnerable. you can see that in this chart. let me talk you through this chart. this is airline bookings. it is different types of airline bookings. corporate, noncorporate. these are travel agency fares. as you can see they all collapsed. online, the leisure part of the business starting to come back. still down very sharply. what happens next? how quickly can this industry recover? if you have the shot, should you be able to travel? iata ceo alexandre de juniac, outgoing, joins us. this is his final interview with us -- you have weathered the
storm. what have you made of the last few months in terms of the way this industry has handled this crisis? what have you learned, what has the industry learned? what can we take forward? you think this industry will be stronger or weaker? alexandre: in the near future the industry will recover, but will be weaker for a while. you have a fewer number of actors. probably a smaller network with fewer aircraft. as they have strongly reacted to this immense shock of covid, it will be competitive for the future. in the near term i think the industry will recover and we will come back stronger. that is three or four years from
now. guy: a long way away. the speed of that recovery will depend on a number of things, one of which is government. government appears to be very cautious in terms of setting up a roadmap for industry to come b ack. if you have had your vaccination, if you have had both of your shots, do you think you should be able to get on an airplane and go wherever you want? alexandre: we recommend two things start first of all, we've asked for all passengers to be tested and we have said if there is no backseat -- now we have -- no vaccine -- now we have a vaccination policy everywhere. we should honor government to set a reopening plan which is consistent with testing
strategy. the only state which is successfully issued a plan for that is the u.k. we hope germany will and we hope many states will be able to set up a reopening plan. that is a key issue. because governments have issued travel restrictions the traffic has collapsed dramatically. guy: do think that will happen in time for the summer? greece is pleading with other members of the european union to put some sort of process in place to allow this to happen. there is caution. germany looks like it is being very cautious at this point. you think greece is going to have a good summer? do you think portugal is going to have a good summer? you think people be showing up on airplanes from northern europe spending in the way they would normally spend pre-pandemic? what kind of summer are you
predicting? alexandre: do the rollout of the vaccination in europe -- due to rollout of the vaccine in europe , even if it is different one state to the other, we should see in june a reopening of borders. we should see a summer season that should be acceptable come in which we will be able to travel. not all of the time, but much better than the current situation due to the vaccination. once we reach to passengers is our travel past which is a certification that says you've been tested or vaccinated according to travel requirements issued by the state. all over the world, and particularly in europe. allow people to travel safely
but also openly. alix: good afternoon. here in the u.s., we are getting something that is being called v accication, where you get vaccinated and people are going on vacation to celebrate. are you noticing any of that happening elsewhere and are people traveling differently that do have the vaccines? they will be older versus the younger crowd. alexandre: we have not noticed something similar, what you call the vaccication. not yet. perhaps that is because the u.s. is advanced in the vaccination. compared to the u.k., europe is significantly behind. that is the reason. secondly, we are not
recommending that vaccination is mandatory to take a flight or travel. we understand some states may issue that recommendation. it is not an iata recommendation. what we recommend is people -- if people are vaccinated this information may be transferred to the airline or to the state to allow the passenger to travel. guy: in the u.s., what we are seeing in the u.s. is a decent rebound. they are now seeing, the data shows that basically for the first time we have had over one million passengers per week outside of holiday. the u.s. is starting to come back. how different do you think the picture in the united states versus europe is going to look by the end of this summer?
alexandre: i think the u.s. will have rebounded, but europe as well. lower than the u.s., but i think europe will have also partially recovered. as you know, our forecast for the end of the year is half of what it was in 2019, which is better than 2020, but still half of what it is worth in the last normal year free covid. -- the last normal year free pre covid. it is still worrisome for the airlines. alix: the oecd was not as optimistic on emerging market recovery as it was in developed markets what are you seeing in terms of emerging-market travel? alexandre: in emerging-market, you have the agent situation -- the asian situation in which
markets have almost recovered, recovered partly in china already in november. john it was 95% of what it was in 2019. it was domestic. you must know that in many asian countries borders are closed because of travel restrictions, such as two weeks of quarantine blocking any travel. in the emerging-market -- the international market depends on government to reopen their borders. to welcome international passengers. vaccination and testing, no problem with that, but they must reopen.
everywhere we should reopen. guy: what about business? what are we going to be back on planes? is it the airline sector versus zoom? is that the way we should think about the sector future? alexandre: it is clear that the virtual tools -- they will not replace travel. the business will come back later than the personal mode of travel, visiting friends and relatives. this will come back very fast, very soon, and strongly. the business travel will come back 12 to 18 months later and after the personal motivation for air travel. it will come back. you cannot grow your business,
you cannot invest without visiting where your spending money, the people with whom you're going to partner, that is impossible. guy: you need to take every trip or is it just the last trip for the first trip you have to make? i think we will find that out over the next few months. we've appreciated your time and the time you've spent with us over the last few months tough times. alexandre de juniac, the outgoing iata ceo. we look forward to welcoming his successor in the future. this is bloomberg. ♪
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our tv and radio audiences worldwide, welcome to "balance of power," where the world of politics meets the world of business. i am david westin. the political die is cast as the houses set to vote tomorrow morning on the stimulus package and send it divided next week. we welcome our political contributor jeanne zaino of ionia college. she is the author of american democracy in crisis. it looks like president biden did all right. jeanne: he did very well. this is the bill he talked about as president-elect and got almost everything he wanted in this bill. he will come out thursday night. he believes like you just said he will be celebrating signing this bill, which even bernie sanders said is a historic piece of legislation for working families. it is a lot bigger than just covid relief. david: is there any