tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg May 25, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology." with emily chang. ♪ emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco, this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, the washington dc attorney general slaps amazon with an antitrust suit, accusing the behemoth of forcing third-party sellers to offer the
lowest prices on amazon. sellers tell bloomberg even if they offer a lower price on their own website, the amazon listing gets buried. amazon pushing back hard. we will discuss. video darling vimeo counts amazon and starbucks among its biggest customers, but the provider plunges in its public debut after splitting off from iac. did they get it wrong? i will speak to vimeo's ceo. and it has been one year since the tragic death of george floyd ignited a wave of protests. the biggest companies in the world, including apple, amazon, and facebook vowed to do better. how much has really changed? how promises haven't necessarily been kept. we will get to that in a moment. let's look at the markets. stocks climbed for another day this week. walk us through the day. >> it was a pretty quiet day. trading volume much below that
of recent averages. that was reflected in the benchmark indexes. the s&p 500 ended a hair lower, about .2%. the nasdaq 100 just into the green. you saw the semiconductor index outperform both, ending about .4% higher. the real winner was the nasdaq golden dragon china index. about 1.8% higher. the real action was in the main stocks. day trader favorites. gamestop surging over 16% up to its highest level since march. amc had an even better day. up nearly 20%. looks like retail is driving the action. you saw #amcstrong trending all day on twitter. it took gamestop along for the ride. let's go back to the real world and end on amazon. it has been a fascinating week for the stock. bloomberg news reported last
night the takeover of mgm could be announced this week with a $9 billion price tag. that helped shares opened higher today, but they were starkly lower on mid-day in new york after breaking news the antitrust lawsuit. shares did recover to end higher on the day, but this chart tells you it will be a war for this stock going forward. emily: katie wright failed, thank you so much for the roundup. i want to stick with amazon. now facing a massive antitrust suit. they are being sued by the attorney general for washington, d.c., who is accusing amazon of anticompetitive practices that have forced prices down on amazon, but raised prices for consumers elsewhere. the suit says it will allow the company to build monopoly power. it is the sixth antitrust case against a major u.s. tech company filed by federal officials. to discuss, we are joined by michael proctor and brad stone,
who has written a couple of books about amazon. how significant is it? how dangerous could this development be for amazon? >> obviously, it is significant. and and trust case by a prominent attorney general with more on the way and many from the ftc, it is not good. as for the outcome, i think it is a long legal case and complex issue. i think in principle, it is not as bad as it sounds. in reality, it might be worse, the charge against amazon, i mean. years ago, amazon gave up this idea of price parity, forcing sellers to give the lowest price. it still implements that in a very subtle way, in the search engine. a lot of retailers do this. for third-party sellers, it is kind of an invisible tribunal of offering a price for sale lower somewhere else, and if some merchandise gets in the wrong
hands, amazon will disappear them and there is no recourse. i think the fact that it looks bad for amazon, it probably sticks adjustments onto their business model. emily: the other big cases that have been filed against tech companies, google, facebook, how concerned should investors be about this for amazon in particular? >> we will have to see what the facts actually tell us. but most favored nations clauses are really common. medicare has one for drug prices. you can offer anything lower elsewhere than you offer to medicare as a buyer. so amazon is essentially following that practice. if in fact it is draconian and they say if somebody takes my vendor's product and discounts it to a third-party unrelated to amazon, that could be overreaching. i doubt that will happen. it is a minor fix. i think the suit is going
nowhere. the fact is the antitrust laws were written 100 years ago. they just never contemplated anything like e-commerce. so unless congress gets its act together and changes the law, i think amazon states. i think there is no -- skats. i think there is no risk. -- skates. i think there is no risk. you can't count on a green light for anything. emily: i just want to mention what amazon has said, the d.c. attorney general hasn't exactly -- has it exactly backwards. sellers that their own prices they offer, like any store, we reserve the right not to highlight offers to customers that are not priced competitively. so it speaks to both of your points. however, in terms of what is happening in practice, how much it might differ from what is on paper? >> that is a good point.
amazon is saying sellers set their own price, but by virtue of this very soft, very opaque most favored nation or price parity clause, is amazon in a de facto way requiring sellers to set an absolute minimum price? and to perhaps raise prices elsewhere? that is the argument here, a tough one to back into. the original purpose of antitrust law was to lower price and maintain low prices for customers, and not ensure -- not allow monopolists to raise prices artificially. on its face, that is what amazon is doing. kind of a backwards argument. but i agree with michael, at least in this case, on the face with amazon's defense. emily: we will be speaking with the washington, d.c. attorney general at the bottom of the hour. so i will tell him what you
said, that you think the case is going nowhere and amazon skates away. what do you have for the attorney general if that is what you believe? >> it is a problem of proof. he will have to show damage. he will have to actually get a vendor to come forward and say "i wanted to charge $40 on amazon, $30 elsewhere, because of amazon, i had to raise the price elsewhere." that is not what happened, they had to drop the price on amazon. if you can find the retailer who said they raised the price elsewhere because amazon made them, maybe he's got a case. i doubt that smoking gun exists. . i can't even imagine if it exists. emily: meantime, we are potentially hours away from amazon's biggest acquisition since whole foods. we are all expecting amazon will be buying mgm studios in a massive acquisition. if this happens, do you think it is a good move for amazon? given the backdrop of the scrutiny?
>> i do. there is certainly no antitrust issue with them owning a film lot or studio. they are just not big enough to make a meaningful difference. people can talk about whether 17,000 hours of television content is worth $9 billion, for billion dollars, or something less, but it is about a week's worth of revenue for amazon. so not really a big deal. considering it will be advertised over the next 20 years, amazon is buying 90 years worth of content, and it will take 90 years to build a library that big. they have to compete with peacock, the nbc universal library, and disney plus, with disney and fox's library, and hbo, with warner bros.'s library. they cannot compete without a library of their own. i think the loser is netflix. they don't have a deep library. amazon just locked up more content that was not locked up
by the other big services. emily: what is your take on that? you chronicle how amazon studios, the original programming got off to a slow start, they did not necessarily know how to negotiate in hollywood. they had some executive problems at the company. now we are seeing spending big, over the last several years, he has been willing to spend. what do you make of this? >> it is interesting. in the beginning, there was only kind of an intuition of how they might monetize original content or license content. what has really developed our business models to exploit the kind of content library they will be getting from mgm. it is not just making content the centerpiece of the prime subscription club, but it is also the ad business. we have seen the growth of imdb tv, where people may not know about it, but it is a free
streaming service jargon not growing quickly. he put mgm's library in there, and you monetize it. as well as getting franchise potential that amazon has lacked. so all sorts of spinoff potential in the "rocky" franchise or "james bond" franchise if they can get the rights to that from the family that controls it. but that is in part what they are buying, opportunities, creative opportunities based on the property mgm has. emily: we will see. we are following the deal closely. brad stone, michael pactor. i will be speaking with the washington, d.c. attorney general at the bottom of the hour. a lot of questions for him, given the conversation there. do not miss that coming up. up next, breaking up may be hard to do. shares of vimeo slumping in its trading debut after going it
emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i am emily chang in san francisco. shares of vimeo slumping in its trading debut after spinning off from iac. like match before it, vimeo is the latest company to part ways with iac. i spoke earlier with anjali sud, who credited the iac chair for much of the video creation companyssuccess' -- company's success. she also maintains she is not concerned with the share price dip. >> we are not worried about the stock right now. we think about the market and this business in decades, not years. we are just getting started. we are just getting started in revenue, profitability, margins. most importantly, we are building. we launched new features last week. we will continue doing that. we see demand from his this is
for video continuing to be high. we feel we are coming into this with a position of strength, and we are energized. focus will be on building value for our customers and ensuring they are successful with video. emily: years ago, vimeo had dreams of taking on netflix in original programming. it was not working out. you had the idea to give video software tools to businesses to pivot to the enterprise. pitched it to the ceo of iac, and that has taken off. but perhaps investors wonder about the next phase of growth, how big the idea could really be? how do you answer that? >> our next phase of growth is fulfilling the mission myself and our team set out to do in 2017. the reason it is such a long-term opportunity is the market, if you think of it as every business in the world, there are hundreds of millions of businesses small and large, a
vast majority are not using good quality video. you look at the ways we communicate, work, email, chat, marketing, social media, video should be a first-class citizen. it is not, because it is so hard. we look at our market, we have 1.5 million customers. a tiny sliver of the market. so we think there is plenty of runway and growth for vimeo. not just for quarters and years, but decades. just given the power of video, and the fact it should be used by every business in the world. emily: being in the video business myself, i can understand that. it is hard. videos available on nearly every social platform, youtube has big ambitions in this space. how do you see the competition -- the competition is giving away these tools for free. >> in many ways, we don't think of youtube, facebook, and others as competitors.
they are partners. ultimately, a business wants to get message out there. they don't want to have to choose, they don't want who -- they don't want to create content for each platform. vimeo enables you to create content and distribute it everywhere. so we are actually a valuable partner. we are partnering with all of those platforms today. we have a creation app that really helps businesses make content for those platforms. they like it, because we are helping businesses put video out there. and they know video performs better than image and text. it is more engaging, gets prioritized. so it is a good thing for the ecosystem overall. for vimeo, it is important, because we can serve businesses in a way that is quite differentiated. emily: vimeo did not turn out how barry miller intended, but i understand he's happy with the results. how involved has he been, and
how involved will he continue to be? >> he has been an incredible champion of vimeo over the years. i think the role he has played is really one in encouraging us to think long-term always, have a forever timeline. to be bold and remember not to get distracted by the noise of a quarter or a stock price, but really are we building lasting, enduring value for our company? that is that he throws he has brought, and it is one i will be carrying on in the future very much. emily: video platforms have long struggled with misinformation and hate. it is something people as big as facebook and youtube, they have not gotten a handle on it, despite having massive resources. what is your strategy, and how do you intend to meet that challenge? >> we take our responsibility as
a platform in ensuring we have a safe and supportive environment community very seriously. we invest in our trust and safety efforts, content moderation efforts. we are always evolving. we are always looking at guidelines and making sure they reflect the realities of our world, because it is constantly changing. the reality for vimeo is we are more oriented to businesses, professional content. so the risk for us, or the volume or issues you would see on other platforms doesn't exist. more and more, we are helping people get their content onto other platforms, versus on vimeo itself. i think it is expected to be less of a feature for us the way it is for a social media platform, but one we take very seriously and will always commit to be responsible of. emily: anjali sud there, you can catch the full interview at bloomberg.com. coming up, microsoft available conference kicking up. highlights for the products for developers. amanda silver is coming up next.
but the most notable thing is what will happen to the other 90%. the digital transportation projected over the next 10 years is happening today. emily: joining me is microsoft's cbp, amanda silver. data from linkedin shows nearly 150 million new tech jobs will be created over the next five years. 98 million alone over the next five years. how does this present a challenge and opportunity for microsoft? >> that is a great question. microsoft has always been working towards developers. we are a platform company at our core. we want to make sure we are empowering developers all over the planet to help businesses and organizations transform. emily: talk about what this means for developers. you are releasing new tools that will help them create. the intention.
>> our intention is to make sure every keystroke matters. for developers, what matters is the code they are trying to write. but it is for the end users. that is for customers or employees. so we really want to make sure they can create applications more quickly and easily, and deliver it to their end-users as quickly as possible. as an example of what we were talking about today, teams has grown dramatically over the past year. it has doubled over the past year. we have over 145 million daily users of microsoft teams. that means it has become central to the way everybody is doing work in this hybrid work environment. so a lot of developers are seeing this as an opportunity to deploy applications for employees to be able to complete their work. emily: there is the talk of the developer shortage. i wonder why that is, and how
microsoft proposes to close the gap? >> when i think about closing the developer shortage, it is about minting new developers, bringing more developers into the workforce, making sure they can be more productive, and scaling by working with others, collaborating with others. when i think about things like students learning new tech skills, we want to bring more students to be able to create the technology. as an example, i'm inspired by students in the imagine cup who have been challenged by remote learning. they want to make sure students who learn how to build robotics could actually access hands-on labs with remote hands-on labs environments. they used microsoft azure, studio to create such an environment. emily: we will be following it this week as it kicks off. amanda silver, thank you for joining us. coming up, we will speak with
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emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i am emily chang in san francisco. let's get to the markets, where it has been another volatile day for crypto. ed ludlow has the latest. walk us through the ups and downs. >> price swings, bitcoin the focus, falling below $38,000 on tuesday. other coins also with the momentum, except for one, which i want to focus in on. ethereum was up 14%, above $75.
it continues the upward trajectory into the next session. the biggest move of the cryptocurrencies bloomberg tracks. back to bitcoin, you think about the discussions we have had over the last 14 days or so, ultimately, bitcoin is down significantly. the volatility entered the market. but look at the terminal. 30 day volatility for bitcoin. the highest level so far in 2021. it is nowhere near the level it was last year or the year before, or in 2012 or 2013. so it is all relative. volatility is higher in recent days, but historically, is not where it was. it is not just the cryptocurrencies themselves, i want to look at the stocks relating to cryptocurrencies. broadly speaking, they were down, apart from one, coinbase. it was up almost 8%.
jp morgan initiated coverage with a price target of $371. currently at $242. the markets are durable and growing, which is positive. and coinbase has an influential position. so a positive in what was pretty much a sea of red for crypto. emily: thank you. i want to get back to the big story of the day, e-commerce giant amazon being sued by the attorney general for washington, d.c. allegations of anticompetitive behavior. it opened a new front in the campaign against major u.s. tech companies. the sixth such case filed in the last year by state and federal officials, but the third against amazon. we are joined by attorney general karl racine himself. thank you for joining us on a big day. we were having a conversation about this suit earlier in the show. some of the critics saying what you are accusing amazon of doing
is what all retailers do. what do you find so problematic about amazon's behavior, in particular? >> to be sure those are criticisms we expected, but when you focus on amazon, and the amazon digital mall, what you are talking about is a player that owns at least 50% of the marketplace. there are estimates that go up to amazon having 75% of market power. the other players, ebay, apple, walmart, if you aggregate and add it up, probably about 12% or 13%. amazon dominates the online space. here is what they use their power to do to third party sellers. they require sellers first two amazon a very segment -- to pay amazon a very significant amount for good. then it requires the sellers to
not provide access to their product on any other site, including the seller's own site, for a price lower than that which they sell it on amazon. that means you and i are locked into buying a good at an artificially high price set by amazon. that is the wrong our lawsuit seeks to make right. emily: amazon, not surprisingly, has pushed back hard. amazon through a spokesperson saying the d.c. attorney general has it exactly backwards. sellers set their own prices for the products they offer in our store. like any store, we reserve the right not to highlight offers to customers that are not priced competitively." what is your response? >> in theory, that is not incorrect. in practice, the monopoly power,
amazon tells you what to set the price at, and punishes you if you do not adhere to those rules. that is, in our view, an abuse of marketing power. so the idea that amazon is this benevolent player on a digital mall that is not rewarding and punishing others, if you don't play according to their rules, is false. third party sellers know that, and consumers are harmed. emily: what states did you work with to investigate amazon? >> this is a d.c. case, d.c. attorneys in our counsel worked on it for over a year. we engaged with amazon as best as we could to establish a cooperative relationship, to gather documents and analyze the case. at the end of the day, we felt the case needed to be brought. it is not uncommon, as your
question suggests, for other attorneys general to join together in a lawsuit. it may happen, or it may not. we are very confident in our case. emily: that leads me to my next question. why did you file this action in local court versus collaborating with other states? >> i think that is a fair question. again, we welcome any state to review our complaint. they know how to reach me and my team. we will bring them in on the case if they are interested in this theory. we brought the suit because we believe amazon is exercising its clear monopoly power on the digital mall in a way that punishes third party sellers and hurts consumers by leaving consumers with no choice but to pay higher prices for good. amazon never in its press release takes on or even acknowledges the provisions at
issue in our lawsuit, sometimes called most favored nation clauses. i would ask amazon to tell you the truth, it is about their most favored nation clauses. emily: have you heard from any other attorney generals? >> i will keep it to myself, but i have talked to more than three of them today. emily: are there other antitrust issues surrounding amazon's behavior that you feel deserves scrutiny? >> i think the press and your station has been all over this, with respect to amazon and the larger platforms. these are incredible businesses. i don't mean to denigrate them. they brought incredible efficiency and convenience to the marketplace. but they do not get to set the marketplace by virtue of their own power. i know there are several other
issues attorneys general are looking at with respect to the platforms, including amazon. emily: earlier, and i want to give you a chance to respond, an analyst who covers amazon says he thinks the case is going nowhere, and amazon will skate away. how do you respond? >> i did not really understand or see in the comment what his rationale was for his statement. if he says amazon is a massive is this that will continue to prosper, i would agree with him. if he is saying these most favored nation clauses are legal and amazon will forcefully defend that, i think it is wrong. i think they are illegal, and where amazon has been tested on these kinds of clauses in their third-party contracts, they have backed away. i think that is what they will eventually be forced to do, or
choose to do. emily: i would love for you to sum up how you came to understand amazon's power in this area. what got you to the point of taking action and thinking this should be a priority? >> it is a very complex issue. antitrust law itself is somewhat esoteric. so we dug in to try and understand the third-party seller experience and the kind of pressure placed on third parties who want their goods to be showcased on the biggest digital mall in the world. we then took a hard look at the economics involved. what we saw was third-party sellers were essentially forced to pay a high commission to have goods sold on amazon, then
strongly discouraged to not allow for their goods to be available at any lower price for fear of being punished and banned from the amazon website. that is very strong and pernicious power, and that is why we acted. emily: attorney general karl racine, big move from you today. thank you for taking the time to explain it to us. looking forward to following this case. companies across the country pledged to focus diversity and inclusion in the wake of george floyd's death, but did big tech keep its promise? we will discuss. this is bloomberg. ♪
emily: it has been one year since the death of george floyd galvanized protests against racial injustice. the movement calling for inclusion, equity for all, prompted hundreds of the largest companies to pledge ranges in their business operations to support racial equality. apple announced a set of major new products as part of its $100 million racial equity it justice -- justice initiative. facebook promising to support suppliers and communities that were black-owned in the u.s. and the amazon community invested $27 million to 12 organizations, including the black employee network mode which they helped select. according to a study by creative investment research, while u.s. companies pledged $15 billion toward racial equity following floyd's murder, only $250 million has actually been spent.
for more, i want to bring in dr. evelyn carter. paradigm is a diversity strategist firm that designs data-driven strategies, and trains employees and leaders for success. thank you for joining us. why this golf between $50 billion -- $15 billion pledged, and $250 million spent? >> it is a big number. i think the biggest reason for that is we are looking at what has happened over the past year. what i always remind my clients is to right systemic injustice that has been the result of centuries of work, it will take longer than a year to fix. in one part, we see innovation has made -- organizations have made progress, but there is plenty to do. it is right to take a skeptical view and say why is it this money has not been spent, but i'm optimistic the money is
actually being put to good use in the way these organizations intended. emily: you helped train tech companies and executive companies like airbnb, flakka, twitter , lyft. do you see a difference how tech deals with it and other industries deal with it? >> a big difference between tax and other industries, be it entertainment, law, finance, or anything else, the tech sector is a very public sector. it is creating ways of life that helped all of us connect with each other. so there's a bigger responsibility on that industry to get this right. that said, i think tech is grappling with what it means to be learning on the go as you are working to right these systemic injustices. emily: a startup that helps other companies recruit diverse talent, they found something
interesting that companies that made statements of solidarity, black lives matter, they had 20% fewer black employees on average than those who didn't make those statements. what are we supposed to take away from that? >> one takeaway is organizations that have far fewer black folks know that they need to speak up so that folks know they care. staff meeting research has been done that look at how people of color consider whether they want to join organizations. representation is a very important piece. so is what the company says they believe. i think the organizations who have made these statements, if they have fewer black employees, they know that the first but not only step is they have to say what they believe to make sure black folks know they will be able to join a psychologically safe space that will put action behind those words. putting action is what the
organizations have to do as a follow-up. emily: you have companies like coinbase, who have banned talking about politics at work. is it a good move by employers? should they allow discussions about racial injustice? should they speak out about racial injustice? the argument is it allows them to work on their core work, core mission, whether it be christo -- cryptocurrency or something else. >> my answer is always going to be yes. i think coinbase and any others doing that kind of thing are wrong. the reason for that is two fold. you have to consider who the people are that need to focus on the core work, and what you are signaling to those whose identities are inextricably linked with racial injustice happening in the world, what are you communicating to them by saying your stuff is on the fringe, it is distracting.
my identity, my experience is not a mere distraction. it is part of who i am, an essential part of who i am. the other part is in the paradigms, most people want to be talking about this at work. over the past year, we experienced a collective awakening and what it means to understand racial inequity in this world. we spent a lot of time at work. so figuring out how to have these conversations is paramount. emily: you bring up an interesting point. we spent a lot of time working from home over the last year. the workforce is now going through a major transition. some employees are going back i wonder if it means confronting some of these issues all over again. how do you advise employers, managers, and workers to navigate that transition, knowing they have been through an incredibly harrowing
experience and have to go through this new transition all over again? >> the biggest thing folks can do transition into the workplace, and if you are still remote, is to lead with empathy. that means listening to what people are sharing about their experiences, creating space by bringing an expert to hold those discussions or train internal people, and make sure as you are listening to people, hearing what they need, that you are prepared to take action based upon what they say. that is true, whether or not we are in a remote world, a hybrid world, or back in the office. all employers need to get better at listening what employees need, and taking action as a result. emily: dr. evelyn carter, thank you for joining us. really appreciate you taking the time. i want to bring you some news of changes at the helm of electronic arts. the chair will step down as --
expected, and covid is hurting supply chains. ed ludlow took a ride in the latest factory built prototype the ceo to discuss. >> lucid motors is pretty far behind its original schedule. it called investors attention in august when it said the debut ev could do more than 500 hours on a single charge. production was supposed to start at the end of 2020, but it slipped when covid hit. >> there are always going to be weaklings when you have an international supply base around 250 suppliers. >> in february, they did a deal with a check company allowing them to list as a public company and will generate more than $4 billion cash. they also agreed to delay the start of reduction because churchill had quality control concerns. they will build just 577 cars this year. >> it was so important to get it
right. it was so important to be responsible as a public company to under promise and over deliver. because it will kill us if we launch this anything over than top-quality. >> 20,000 units next year is realistic, but before customers get behind the wheel, more testing is needed. >> we are assessing the quality, integrity of systems, and software. we are developing. >> to get an idea of how much progress they are facing, we asked the ceo to take us for a ride. how much is the pace of preproduction in your hands right now? >> a lot of it is in our control. some of it is frustrating with suppliers falling behind. >> they have a plant in arizona near completion and has hired hundreds of staff.
>> i don't see improvement right now, and that is why we are putting it to get an action right now. >> the company also treat the performance and cut weight. the debut version will have more than 1000 horsepower. mine had a mere 800. >> that is so fast. to the back of the head rest. >> lucid prototypes. but getting into serial production has been a challenge. it has not lived up to the height of being a competitor to tesla or carmakers in the luxury space. he was the chief engineer on the model s. elon musk has been repeating the same line for a a while. prototypes are easy, production is hard. do you agree? >> i think the prototypes -- to do a prototype of something which is really pushing the envelope, world-class technology.
that is superhard. i think putting that into production, that is challenging. >> do you think the line he says is directed at you guys specifically? >> interesting. >> lucid is inching closer, but it has not revealed a production date. >> we will continue building cars and grind away at the company. as a team, we will decide that we get to a stage. this car passes the test. >> the merger is due to take place at the end of the second quarter. ed ludlow, bloomberg news. emily: thank you for that story. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." i am emily chang in san francisco back in the studio. we will be back here tomorrow. this is bloomberg. ♪
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