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tv   Bloomberg Markets  Bloomberg  January 4, 2022 1:00pm-2:00pm EST

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england carries on with its current code restrictions. he told reporters today he doesn't believe a lockdown is necessary. prime minister johnson: together with the measures we introduce before christmas, we have a chance to ride out this omicron wave without shutting down our country once again. we can keep our schools and businesses open, and we can find a way to live with this virus. mark: prime minister johnson's announcement came despite news that the u.k. reported more than 200,000 new covid cases on monday, the most since the pandemic began. here in the united states, more than a million people were diagnosed with covid on monday, as the omicron variant continues its sweep. that record number is almost double the previous record of 590,000, set four days ago.
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the high estate outside the u.s. came during india's surge when more than 414 thousand people were diagnosed on may 7. if you get the pfizer biontech covert vaccine, you should get a booster shot five months after your second dose, not six months. that is the new guideline from the cdc. the recommendation comes one day after the fda changed its emergency authorization for the shop to reflect a shorter dosing interval for the booster. the interval for the moderna booster is six months after the first two shots. the criminal case against former governor andrew cuomo over his alleged sexual harassment of a woman has been dropped. albany's district attorney says that while the accuser was cooperative and credible, there was not enough evidence to proceed. the investigations were triggered after new york attorney general letitia james issued a damming report on the governor's conduct with women. cuomo resigned in august.
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global news 24 hours a day, on-air, and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries. i'm mark crumpton. this is bloomberg. ♪ >> it is 1:00 in new york, 2:00 in hong kong. welcome to bloomberg markets. here are the top stories we are following for you from around the world. u.s. stocks pulled back from records, tech weighing on equities. we will break down the rotation with evan brown, had a multi-asset strategies at ups. and opec-plus looks at its outlook for global oil markets despite the threat of the omicron variant. and we will have full virus coverage as the u.s. reports one million cases in a day, and the
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cdc recommends a pfizer booster five months after their first two shots. i mentioned that rotation. tech falling out of bed, lower is where we sit. tesla, apple, nvidia, amd. it is the chip guys and the faang guys that are taking it on the chin. where is the money going? definitely going into the cyclical valley trade. the energy index is one of the performers, up 3.5%. the kbw bank index up 3.6%. a huge part of that is the bond market. you are seeing the rise continued in the 10-year yield. the 30 year yield at the highest level since the end of october. it was a pretty rough start to the bond market if you are long. so what do you do with this kind of rotation? evan brown at ubs asset
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management joins me now. are you playing rotation tuesday? evan: we are. we are playing rotation this quarter. we are hoping the price action we are seeing right now continues. it is really just based on what we think will be a stronger economy than consensus expectations. coming into this quarter, you have to rebuild a lot of inventory, still have household and corporate balance sheets in good shape. capex will pick up. in general, the private sector can take over from the fiscal stimulus over the course of this year. that is the price action we are seeing today. alix: as of now, it feels like the overall equity market can handle these higher bond yields, but tech isn't. how far do you need to go for tech to have a meaningful correction here? evan: we look at this a lot.
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it depends not just on how far yields go but the speed of the move. typically, when you get a really fast move, 50 basis points in 10 year yields, that is when you see the market get hit. you could see some volatility on a day-to-day basis, and we are seeing that, but we could very well see that. real yields have been low for too long. we are looking at a yield curve that is just pricing a fed that will hike a few times this year and then stop. we think that needs to be repriced. more hikes further out the curve. you could see a sharp adjustment here really yield. that will be difficult for these growth stocks. alix: if growth rolls over, what value go with it? how does the s&p stay positive
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without tech? evan: i think that is right for the u.s. market in particular. if we get enough deterioration in the u.s. market due to tech sewing, then people will derisk, and that will hit the other asset classes. on a relative basis, i think what we are seeing in europe and japan, these more cyclically sensitive markets, i think we will see them outperform in this kind of environment. alix: does that mean a cyclical valley trade shouldn't necessarily be played in the u.s., and you want to focus on japan, europe? evan: i still think you can played in the u.s., can play the full indexes in europe and japan. the sector complexes are so skewed toward the cyclical land
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value names. in the u.s., you want to pick your spots, be in energy and financials. be in an equal weight index as opposed to market weight. the u.s. economy will still be strong, so we shouldn't ignore the u.s. cyclical sector as we go through this repricing. alix: in that environment, what are you supposed to do with the bond market? if yields get high enough, the conversation becomes when did we see money coming out of europe and going into u.s. treasury markets? what do you do with your treasury holdings, is that cash? evan: i think we still need to hold treasuries. everyone is calling for the end of the 60/40, negative stock bond correlation, and then it always appears. bonds are there to protect you. you can be underweight, but you don't want to abandon them and go into cash.
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what will determine how u.s. yield can rise is how much we will see yields across the world rising, especially in europe. believe it or not, in europe, despite the ecb's dovishness, there are a lot of positive things happening that could lead to an increasing yield, including the fiscal story. you have a pullback in the u.s. and other countries, but you are getting a rise in the fiscal impulse in europe over the course of this year. alix: let's follow dot plot for a second. if you are talking about differentials, what should we be pricing in in terms of a fed hike, how do you price something in equivalent to the ecb? the french president said that he thinks inflation will calm down to about 2%. evan: we have probably seen, at least for the very front end of the curve, the peak differential
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spread between the u.s. and europe. for us to price in more throughout the year will be difficult. there is still very little price for europe. it is not a zero probability that europe will not hike this year or early next year. we finally have a european economy that is looking pretty good, where we have more fiscal support, all of the screen investment coming. it is always what our thinking is versus price. i just think there is more room to price on the european right side. alix: one more question following along these themes. we didn't talk about omicron. we are seeing the beaten up stocks soaring today in europe,
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playing catch-up. royal caribbean, cruise liners crushing it yesterday. you played the reopening trade. is that another case for europe? evan: the markets always discount. we are still living with omicron. if we look at south africa, cases coming down quickly, plateauing quickly in the u.k., and the rest of the world should follow. everything that was pushed down by omicron naturally will have a lift. that will support europe, which is best geared to travel, industry. china, where we are starting to see a little bit of stimulus coming through as well. all of that is in support of this international rotation. alix: great to chat with you, evan brown. good to see you again.
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now to something that caught my eye out of the market. the weather week tapping in virginia on monday, leaving hundreds of motorists stranded for nearly 24 hours in freezing temperatures. here are some pictures from earlier today after seven to 11 inches of snow fell in the area. as of this morning, state officials say crews are working to remove snow and i small guiding stranded motorist to the nearest exit, but it remains unclear when traffic would resume. u.s. senator tim kaine was like many other motorists, stuck in his car for 21 hours after starting his commute to the capitol. i have been on 95, it is terrible as it is. imagine being on a snowstorm when you cannot move. that is why my back is always filled. opec agrees to proceed with a 400,000 barrel a day hike. can they actually reach that goal?
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this is bloomberg. ♪
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alix: this is bloomberg markets. i'm alix steel. opec-plus have agreed to revive some of its halted output. they will proceed with a 400,000 barrel a day hike beginning in february. let's bring in our energy reporter. what is interesting is the market reaction. oil is up 1.5% despite the fact that they are adding oil. what does that tell us? >> signaling that the market needs more than what they are willing to return to the market.
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inventories have been drawn down over time, over the last year, when we were battling with the pandemic. there has been a slowdown in production. all of that is still low. whenever opec and its alliance wants to return, the market probably thinks they need more. alix: i wonder if we are looking at a situation where opec-plus cannot actually hit that 400,000 barrel a day and not make up what they are hitting. >> there have been a lot of questions over the last several months about how the spare capacity available is not quite as robust as people expect. there have also been disruptions. we have seen over the last week,
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libya has seen a production hip. all of this will be taken into account when the market is recovering in terms of demand despite omicron. they need to replenish inventory and prepare for demand growth. i talked to a couple of analysts, and they expect demand to continue to grow. we had one analyst suggesting an all-time high this year. the market needs to know that all of that will be met with some kind of steady supply, and i guess opec is pacing itself. alix: if we see demand come back stronger than opec thanks, what are the chances opec-plus can pump more than 400,000 barrels a day? at the same time, where is the u.s. in all of this? >> that is still a big question.
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some of the spare capacity -- whatever they have right now, it is smaller and shrinking. in terms of the u.s. stepping in, there is growth, but remember, u.s. producers have a new strategy in place. they want to appease investors, focusing more on returning profits back to investors, rather than grow and expand production in a very large way, like they did in the previous years. they are aware of what has happened in the last couple of years in terms of prices, how it got really low and hurt them badly. they are changing their outlook of how they want to approach, expansion. alix: trading at 77, you wonder if president biden will not pick up the phone and call the crown prince.
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thank you so much. still ahead, it was a very wild ride were crypto in the past year. apple is outperforming bitcoin, but what is ahead for the sector? we will get more from brian mosoff from ether capital. this is bloomberg. ♪
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alix: this is bloomberg markets. i'm alix steel. i want to focus on the outlook for crypto in the year ahead. it was a pretty rocky year in 2021. bitcoin underperformed apple. let's get the take from brian mosoff, ceo of ether capital. they invest in ethereum and all things tied to ethereum and other platforms. i am guessing you will be bullish, but why and how bullish this year?
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brian: when people look at the price of these assets, they need to say, is this asset class here to stay? most people are excited about the fact that it is here to stay. there are more access points and institution moving into the space than ever before. what the price does in the short-term is anyone's guess, but there are exciting things happening. last year we have a narrative around defi, nft's, now we have the ability to generate yield off of these assets. a lot to be excited about. alix: it feels like pension funds, etc. will need to be in this space at some point. i wonder how you see that trajectory happening, getting old-school hedge funds, pension funds in this space. how do you do that when we had the volatility we had last year? brian: the space will remain volatile.
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anyone who things that will go away will be mistaken. but what are the access points going to be? the more structured products come to market, the better. they need ways to get access points to own these assets in ways that are safe and secure, fit into the more traditional box they are comfortable with. the volatility will continue to be there. one thing for pension funds, they will play the picks and shovels, but they will also look to generate yields on these traditionally unproductive commodities. you can take these assets and generate a yield of 5% a year, something they want to participate in. this is such an asymmetric bet, it may seem to investors who are new to this space, runups of thousands of dollars, but in five years from now, where could these assets go if they continue
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to get support globally? there is still a lot of upside. if you can turn off your stomach to the volatility and have it be a piece of your portfolio, it's important for people to participate with whatever meets their mandate. it will be a hard asset class to ignore long-term. alix: it will need to move on its own weight. in some ways, it is time to gold and tech. what is the correlation in this space to other assets? brian: hard to tell. there is this narrative around bitcoin that it is digital gold, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. over time, it will untether itself from other assets. there is this duality, is it a hedge closer to growth and tech? maybe. we are still feeling out where it will go. as more investors get conviction
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that this will not be squeezed out, they will be more comfortable holding through that volatility and see where it goes. alix: you brought in the government. anecdotally, i have heard of old school hedge funds saying the government will squash it. what do you think the government will do with cryptocurrencies? any government. brian: two points i want to make on this. we saw what had been with china pushing it away last year, saying we will focus on a central bank digital currency. that's a real opportunity for the u.s. to welcome this asset class that is growing. the u.s. has done historically well by embracing tech. this is an opportunity to lean into it instead of pushing it away. there was a hearing in late 2013 where they asked every government agency to come out and say what they think about bitcoin. they all said we are not here to
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push away new technology. we want to make sure it is being used in an appropriate manner, that is being regulated from the fringes, the exchanges, and then we will build new tools to make sure it is being used in a compliant way. that is very much the intention of government, not to push it away. they will find ways to do that. there are already technologies and platforms that are focusing on that. alix: we talked about a lot of different evolutions, ways to invest. what is your favorite way to play the crypto move? brian: i think you have a barbell of people who want to hold these assets direct, custody it in a wallet that they may have on a usb key, laptop. and now there are these structured products coming to market. last year, we saw the first futures based bitcoin etf.
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there are different ways to access the asset class. it is up to how they want to hold the asset, how they are comfortable, and then assess how they want to build that into their portfolio. alix: great to talk to you. brian mosoff, ether capital ceo. after prioritizing a return to the office, wall street has been forced to put that on hold again. will we ever see full offices again, or is remote work here tuesday? i would never want to put a camera back into my apartment. this is bloomberg. ♪
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mark: i'm mark crumpton with bloomberg first word news. pfizer says the u.s. government
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has agreed to buy an additional 10 million courses of its covid-19 pill, on top of the 10 million doses the drug the u.s. had previously agreed to purchase. pfizer's covid bill was cleared for emergency use of the food and drug administration last month. it's been shown in clinical trial to sharply reduce hospitalizations and deaths from covid-19. turkish president erdogan has a stern warning for any turkish citizen preparing to protest against his government. in a televised speech today, president erdogan said any protests would likely be met with the same response as an attempted military coup in july of 2016. back then, turkish government supporters battled a section of the military attempting to overthrow president erdogan, with clashes killing more than 250 people. tens of thousands were rounded up in the days that followed. six months after haiti's president was assassinated, his
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successors says he was also targeted in a plot. the haitian prime minister told the french owned international agency afp that his armored car was hit by gunfire on january 1. local media reported gunfire and one death near a building where he would do to give a speech. he took the reins in july after the assassination of the reviews president. hundreds of drivers were stranded in their vehicles all night along a 50 mile stretch of interstate 95 in virginia. it stemmed from a crash involving six tractor-trailers on the east coast's major north-south artery. the national weather service is morning of more ice today. global news 24 hours a day, on-air, and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries. i'm mark crumpton. this is bloomberg.
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♪ >> i'm jon erlichman. welcome to bloomberg markets. alix: i'm alix steel. we welcome our bloomberg and bnn bloomberg audiences. here are the top stories we are following for you from around the world. as covid cases surge, the cdc puts up new guidance on the booster. as the future of work remains uncertain, the demand for talent in finance is skyrocketing, as firms hire new workers to meet client needs. food is also skyrocketing -- ford is skyrocketing as the automaker has high hopes for its future.
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all that and more. jon: food was the big part of my holiday. this is the first day of official trading in the new year or the canadian market. initially we were seeing that lived with the enthusiasm south of the border. record closes yesterday for the s&p and dow. but it has felt like investors are once again keying in on inflation worry, interest rates as one of the reality checks for 2022. cautious trading in some of the technology stocks. on the others of the fence, you have seen a desire on some investors parts to buy into cyclical stocks. we have seen that in their energy sector there, caterpillar, bank stocks, jp morgan in the dow, here in canada, some of the banks at an all-time high. let's stay on that theme when it
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comes to deal activity. bank of america in canada was the top advisor for canadian m&a for the first time in a couple of decades. 2021, it grabbed a title after a record deal making. more than $120 billion. the total value of all canadian acquisitions announced was more than 438 billion dollars, so that is ahead of the previous record in 2007. alix: i also wonder much of it is generated within sectors. if you are seeing that m&a in canada, i wonder if you are seeing it in energy. maybe those other sectors are more value-oriented or consumer staples sectors that we saw it. jon: certainly there is the macro, certain industries had to do deals. you had these other factors like
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low interest rates. frankly, a pretty buoyant stock market which opened the door to attractive stock offers, but it comes down to those relationships. bank of america had a good relationship with the players involved in a huge rail deal. as well as a massive telecom deal trying to get through the telecom process. being the right person at the right time can help. alix: the u.s. banks will be starting to report next week. also from the comp ratio and how much we can expect individuals to be paid. that has been coming down but will be coming up as we compete for talent. joining us now is leslie gordon, senior client partner at korn ferry. paint the picture for us. how competitive is the investment banking landscape right now leslie: i've been in this business for 30 years, and
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i have never seen the level of, velocity and level of hiring among investment banking platforms that we are seeing today. it is unprecedented in my experience. jon: what is the single biggest driver driving all of that? leslie: there are a lot of firms scrambling to meet the demand for deal to, keep up with demand activity. there are also new platforms emerging, firms forming, and clients are drawn talent away from investment banks into a corporate role. with all of those dynamics, you have a very robust market. alix: not only are the banks competing with each other but you have hedge funds and private equity, scale. who has the upper hand right now? leslie: within investment banking platforms, they don't
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typically lose most of their people to hedge funds or private equity. it is still pretty much across the other investment banks or two clients. hedge funds certainly are having extreme success, so i am sure hiring activity along those lines is strong. private equity is raising unprecedented amounts of money, so you will see this deal flow continuing to expand, which will drive additional hiring. jon: if you are looking for a job and you know there is pretty strong demand out there, you can put a few cards on the table. what are people asking for in terms of perks? being able to work from anywhere is appealing. technology companies are providing a flexible work environment, opportunity for a lot of their talent. what are you seeing on the ground right now? leslie: it depends.
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some firms have been trying to coax their workers back to the office. morgan stanley, jp morgan have been encouraging people to come back. other firms have been creating more flexibility. some have even opened offices in new locations like west palm beach and miami, so you are seeing greater flexibility. compensation is always a consideration. alix: let's stay on the return to office. morgan stanley, we have reported, they have been on new york city for a lease with some blackrock offices. we will not be working from home forever, we will need some space. how much of a deal breaker would that be? two years ago, nobody would have blinked an eye. how is that affecting junior talent now? leslie: junior people need to be
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working with senior people in a collaborative way, frankly. i believe in the in-office experience, i believe it's important. i believe a generation of talent will not develop fully if they don't get back to the office for at least parts of the week. i think there will be more flexibly going forward that in the past. even firms like morgan stanley and jp morgan who are encouraging people to come back, it may be that they create flexibility within that model. jon: this might be a little inside baseball, but it get to the core of what you do. having to be flexible as an employer and finding that talent, especially when there are restrictions on when you can see someone, how you can see someone, have you seen innovation on that front, how companies are finding that strong talent these days? leslie: they use firms like korn ferry to access talent, that is what we do for a living.
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what we have found is the interview process has accelerated. people are doing interviews remotely, so you can get an interview process completing much more quickly than in the past. accessing talent is something that we do at korn ferry every day. alix: let's talk about the fun bit, comps. what kind of increases will we see? we saw a bunch last year. what kind of bonuses will we be looking at at wall street? leslie: wall street had a record year, so i think compensation will reflect that i have seen packages at levels that we have not seen historically. depending on the group, industry, product, you will see some strong bonus numbers coming out of wall street. jon: lots to watch for. we appreciate your time. leslie gordon of korn ferry with the story of getting that wall
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street talent. when we come back, ford shares hitting a 20 year high on optimism about the automakers electric vehicle push. more details in our stock of the hour. this is bloomberg. ♪
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>> as soon as we reveal the vehicle, we had nearly double the capacity to 80,000. that is why today's announcement is so important. even after we increase capacity to 80,000, reservations continue to come in at record pace. today that is why we are announcing that we will now increase capacity in this plant
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to 150,000 lightnings. that involves the entire supply chain, batteries, motors, controllers. alix: that was the fourth president of the americas and international markets. the company is capitalizing on soaring demand by doubling its factory output of its battery-powered f-150 lightning pickup to 150,000 a year. that is our stock of the hour, and a 20-year high. kriti gupta joins us with a closer look. how much of it was the announcement versus much was underpriced versus gm? kriti: shares are rising 11% mama think that you tend to see in the automakers. usually when you see consumer discretionary and autos rally, you think tesla, but this is coming out, embracing of the ev space, and the fact that they are doing it in a big way. this is not a slow gaining
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process with this is a doubling of capacity. this comes at a time when sales have actually been under pressure. the f series has been making up a good chunk of their sales for years, but in the last couple of years, especially in 2020 with that ship crisis, you saw sales, under pressure. this is a big move in terms of just breaking out of that and being able to deliver cars and on the ev space. compared to other carmakers, it is beating the market cap of gm in particular. this will be a big move for ford . jon: i am glad you highlighted the tesla story. looking back to disney, when they were first laying out the case for disney plus. here was this legacy player with a tech field future given you all sorts of numbers. now the market is looking at the valuation of a company like this one. i don't know that they have the
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cult following of a tesla, but the valuation, there are some differences. kriti: to your point, they don't have the cult following of tesla, but they do have the brand value. the best example i can give, if your grandfather had a ford, if your father did, you are probably going to get one. i grew up in dallas, and that is sort of the mentality. switching over to evs will be a costly venture. ford in particular, it will cost them $30 billion. compare that to volkswagen, who will be spending $100 billion to make that change. alix: you know that matt miller will be first in line to buy one of those f-150's. in terms of the macro outlook when it comes to ford, i'm curious how much of this is tied into the rotation we are seeing in the markets, out of tach into
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the value cyclicals. kriti: this is also a bet on the consumer. they used to be something called gm theory, which is that so money people were buying gm cars, and that ability to spend, gm stock reflected the ability of the economy. i wonder if the ev boom will show a similar idea. jon: good food for thought. a new era for ford. it is the end of an era for blackberry devices running the original operating system. we've been talking a lot about this in canada. services will not be supported after today. the company known as research in motion had the signature handset in the 1990's. many meme stock investors well know, it was hot in 2021, triggering a massive share price
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, but ultimately we saw a pretty sharp incline. i should give a shout out to to the bloomberg quick take team. remember when kim kardashian could not be seen anywhere without her blackberry? there was quite the pop culture phenomenon back then. alix: even i had a blackberry. i was one of those people --an iphone, what is that? this was like a staple for my career. jon: it's interesting. we have been exploring some stories of, there are still plenty of loyalists still out there. they could form a club of sorts. people still getting netflix dvds by mail, maybe the dial-up gang, and the blackberry users. we should clarify, this company has been sending a message of this transition for a long time. they are saying we are all about software now.
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we are outsourcing to android essentially. that will still be in place but quite the change. your views on this company from 2007 2 today. alix: a good point on how technology companies will develop. will tesla have the same power in 10 or 20 years? or will one of the older guys reinvent themselves enough? i think that will be an interesting conversation. where the momentum trade winds up going. coming up, covid cases are surging. the cdc putting up new guidance on the pfizer shop to stop the ongoing spread. we will get more on that, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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jon: this is bloomberg markets. i'm jon erlichman.
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along with alix steel. here in ontario, canada, we have been covering, as many states in the u.s. are navigating through these restrictions, we have a whole bunch of new ones. online learning is a new reality once again. we have a lot of companies signaling to their employees, if you can stay home, they would like to see that. the government is trying to prevent covid-19 from overwhelming the hospital systems. these measures are meant to slow the spike, similar to what we've been seeing across the u.s. the province has more than 1200 people in the hospital with the virus, including 248 in intensive care. although the serious cases are still well below the levels seen in last may. alix: we are seeing that in the u.s., too. teacher shortages.
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if you don't have the teachers, you don't have the ability to mix classes, and you have to go remote. that will be tough. then you have to also deal with isolation times, which brings us back to testing. jon: i can give you the anecdotal example. until the 17th of this month, that is what the premier of ontario laid out yesterday. most questions were, could it go longer? everyone who has kids who has been learning all line really wants to get the reality check on how long this will be. i guess we will find out how long things play out with omicron. alix: let's get more on that covid surge. joining us now is jonathan levin. that is the state of play on the political front. in reality, what are we learning about diets and hospitalizations versus the rising cases? >> what we are seeing
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really mirrors what we saw in south africa and the u.k. the surge in cases is absolutely shocking. already the seven-day average in the u.s. is already double the peak in the winter. but compare that to where icus are in the united states right now. just about 60% of peak levels from last winter. covid deaths occurring in hospitals are about 50% of levels seen around the same time last year. what this appears to be indicating, as we have seen in a growing body of evidence in the u.k. and south africa, there is indeed something there, the combination of the success of the vaccine and unique features of omicron itself that is producing very different outcomes. jon: very quickly, it is hard to
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know the future but in terms of what you are hearing from experts on the length of this wave, what would you say to that? jonathan: one modeling organization, ihme, has a peak for new york, for instance, relatively soon. peak for the united states in a month from now. in the simplest terms, just look at the experience of south africa, for instance. this wave took off very quickly, lasted for about 30 days, and then seemed to turn. you hope that the same happens here. jon: we will be watching closely. thank you. that is jonathan levin. thanks very much for watching. this is bnn bloomberg and bloomberg markets. ♪
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every day in business brings something new. so get the flexibility of the new mobile service designed for your small business. introducing comcast business mobile. you get the most reliable network with nationwide 5g included. and you can get unlimited data for just $30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. available now for comcast business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.
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mark: i'm market crumpton with bloomberg's first word news.
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days before the anniversary of the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol, majority leader chuck schumer announced the senate will vote soon on easing filibuster rules in an effort to advanced all voting legislation democrats say is needed to protect america's democracy. one of the senates to hold out to kratz, west virginia's joe manchin, also weighed in today as he spoke to reporters. >> let me just say that being open to a rules change that would create a nuclear option is very, very difficult. the reason i say it is a heavy lift is once you change a rule or have a carve out, anytime there is a carve out, you eat the whole turkey. there's nothing left. you want things that will be sustainable. that's what you are looking for. mark: senator manchin and the democrats other


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